Greg Nutter, Best Selling Author, Management Consultant

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[00:01:20] Now, back to our episode.

[00:01:22] Welcome everyone. This is Scaling Up Services.

[00:01:24] I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host.

[00:01:26] Our guest today is Greg Nutter.

[00:01:28] He is author of P3 Selling.

[00:01:30] He's also principal consultant at Soloquint.

[00:01:33] We're going to talk about the world of sales, of selling, mindset, strategy, everything you need to really understand what it takes to grow and scale a business.

[00:01:42] From a sales point of view, I'm excited for this.

[00:01:44] I think sales is probably the number one challenge that companies have when scaling, right?

[00:01:50] When they're figuring out, OK, I've got a good strategy.

[00:01:52] How do I actually grow the actual strategic selling, selling process, selling mindset, developing sales systems, sales teams are huge challenges for many, many companies.

[00:02:02] And I'm excited for this because Greg has some really interesting background and some ideas and has worked with lots of folks.

[00:02:07] Hopefully get into really what does it really take?

[00:02:10] How do we do this?

[00:02:11] And I'm excited to share some ideas and takeaways that people can apply to actually growing and scaling.

[00:02:15] With all that, Greg, welcome to the program.

[00:02:17] Thanks, Bruce. Great to be here.

[00:02:18] Yeah, it's a pleasure.

[00:02:19] So before we dive into everything you're doing today and P3 and kind of the work that you're focused on, let's get a little background.

[00:02:26] How did you get into sales?

[00:02:28] How did you get into the work you're doing?

[00:02:30] What's the backstory?

[00:02:31] Well, I kind of fell into sales.

[00:02:33] My degree is in computer science.

[00:02:35] But after I got out of university, I decided I like talking about it more than doing it.

[00:02:40] Yeah.

[00:02:41] First job was a straight commission role where you don't sell, you don't eat.

[00:02:45] Yeah, exactly. Eat what you kill.

[00:02:47] Yeah. Unfortunately, I was able to figure it out.

[00:02:50] But wherever my career really took off, my understanding of sales took off as managed to get a sales job in Xerox in their computer technology group.

[00:03:02] And that's where I had a lot of exposure to training, sales training, best practices.

[00:03:07] And I grew up the latter as sales rep, sales manager.

[00:03:10] And that's where I really discovered that selling was more of a science and an art.

[00:03:14] A lot of people still think it's an art, very process oriented.

[00:03:18] So I did that for 10 years with Xerox back in the day in IBM where the only people were doing really good sales training.

[00:03:26] Yeah.

[00:03:27] And then I was VP of sales for some small companies, which was really different than working for a big company.

[00:03:32] You had to be a little more entrepreneurial.

[00:03:35] You had to figure stuff out yourself.

[00:03:36] You didn't have the resources.

[00:03:38] And then in 2015, I started my own consulting company, Soliquent, where I worked with very large companies, SAP, Hewlett Packard, Microsoft, to name a few, in sales, sales management, channel management.

[00:03:53] Although today, most of my clients are probably in the one million to fifty million dollar range.

[00:03:58] So tell me a little bit about what did you learn, I guess, early around sales?

[00:04:03] I always find that's interesting.

[00:04:04] You know, people that get into sales kind of accidentally or haphazardly.

[00:04:09] There's oftentimes some sort of intuitive skills that they have or kind of things that they can do well that make them good salespeople.

[00:04:16] But then there's things that I have to learn pretty quickly.

[00:04:18] Tell us a little bit about as you got into sales, what did you realize you did well and then what do you need to learn?

[00:04:22] Yeah, I like to tell a story about the first more early days in Xerox.

[00:04:27] And we had this new guy come in.

[00:04:30] He was maybe early 40s, had the look very outgoing, very confident and thought he's going to be great.

[00:04:39] Well, he wasn't right.

[00:04:42] He couldn't get a sales cycle going and started disparaging customers.

[00:04:49] And he didn't last long.

[00:04:50] So that experience actually scared the crap out of me.

[00:04:54] I thought, here's a guy, you know, mid career and he's forgotten how to sell.

[00:04:59] So many he was selling at some stage.

[00:05:02] So from that point, I thought, I got to learn how to do this because I don't want to be caught out mid career not know what I'm doing.

[00:05:08] So I focused on every sales training book I could.

[00:05:12] I took lots of courses.

[00:05:13] I became a trainer at Xerox.

[00:05:16] And one of the things that I learned was I went on a lot of sales calls with sales rep, sales managers, and I watched the exchange.

[00:05:27] I watched the behaviors that sales reps did and watched how prospects responded.

[00:05:34] And that's very different than what normally happens.

[00:05:37] Normally you go out and you watch the deal.

[00:05:39] Are we moving the deal forward or moving the deal back?

[00:05:41] I'm moving the deal back.

[00:05:42] But I took a real interest in watching the behaviors.

[00:05:46] And that, I guess, helped me realize that sales is much more of a process.

[00:05:52] It's much more about planning, about certain and doing things very methodically.

[00:05:58] And I know a lot of salespeople like to just fly by the seat of the pants.

[00:06:02] Which you can do, but it's that structured approach that is really key in business to business sales.

[00:06:10] Yeah, I was going to ask.

[00:06:12] I certainly find for kind of the one off kind of sales process, right?

[00:06:16] Like I'm selling kind of one thing to one person and it's reasonably straightforward.

[00:06:20] You can kind of be a little bit intuitive or a little bit ad hoc or off the cuff.

[00:06:26] But the moment you're dealing with a more complicated sales process, you get multiple people on the buying side.

[00:06:30] There's some kind of configuration process or scoping process that needs to happen.

[00:06:35] It quickly becomes complicated and without some kind of process and structure, it's just really difficult.

[00:06:42] Yeah. In training I do, or in our book, we make the distinction between what we call a simple or transactional sale and a complex or consultative sale.

[00:06:53] Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:54] And a simpler, again, what we call it clerking.

[00:06:57] It's got a typical two-step to it.

[00:06:59] You give information and then you ask for the order.

[00:07:02] And if you don't get the order, you give a little bit more information and then you ask for the order.

[00:07:07] And you cycle and cycle around that.

[00:07:09] And to your point, Bruce, you're absolutely right.

[00:07:12] When you're dealing with a business where there's lots of people involved, lots of steps,

[00:07:18] why a particular feature is valuable isn't necessarily obvious.

[00:07:23] And everybody's got their own perspective on how to solve a problem.

[00:07:27] That two-step doesn't work.

[00:07:29] Yeah. Well, it quickly becomes eight two-steps going on at the same time with different rhythms.

[00:07:35] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:07:37] Let's say there's five, six, ten people involved in making that buying decision.

[00:07:42] Each of them are going to go through their own decision process.

[00:07:46] Exactly.

[00:07:47] There's like four steps that everybody goes through when they're making a complex decision.

[00:07:52] And everybody goes through it at their own pace.

[00:07:55] So you need to know where people are so you can know what behavior to respond with.

[00:08:01] Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about P3.

[00:08:03] I guess, what inspired you writing the book?

[00:08:06] What was the book kind of intention about?

[00:08:08] Tell us about the content. What have you done in P3?

[00:08:11] Yeah, great question.

[00:08:13] So though, why did I write it?

[00:08:15] Again, I spent a lot of time coaching salespeople.

[00:08:19] Last few years, I've had presidents call me up and say,

[00:08:22] hey, we just had our director of sales leave.

[00:08:25] Can you manage the team for a few months until we get somebody else in place?

[00:08:29] And I began to see the same thing I saw many years ago in Xerox.

[00:08:34] People who were been around a long time, you know, mid-career.

[00:08:40] And they'd forgotten the basics of selling.

[00:08:43] They would make in the same mistakes.

[00:08:46] And I thought, I'm going to write a book and just give it to these people.

[00:08:50] So that was really the determination of it all.

[00:08:54] So what I wanted to create and I've read a lot of books on selling.

[00:08:58] And the reality is not a lot of people either use them or remember them.

[00:09:05] So my idea was to come up with a book that or a methodology that's simple to understand.

[00:09:10] There's no made-up jargon.

[00:09:12] It's based on research on how people make decisions, not manipulative tactics,

[00:09:17] which is why, you know, people who aren't typically sellers

[00:09:21] don't have the name, the word sales in their job description or in their title.

[00:09:28] It really resonates with.

[00:09:30] It's complete. It has strategies, processes, tactics and tools.

[00:09:34] And it's also really good for owners, sales leaders,

[00:09:38] because it provides a sales management framework that they can use to inspect

[00:09:44] and coach their sales teams.

[00:09:47] Tell us a little bit about the, I guess, some of the more psychology process

[00:09:52] that you've kind of uncovered or that you found helpful.

[00:09:55] Because I think people very much focus on kind of like, you know,

[00:09:58] gambits around sales, like, oh, like, here's how you handle objections.

[00:10:01] This is like do this thing and then do this thing, you know, say this and then wait for this.

[00:10:04] Right. Like it's very kind of transactional.

[00:10:06] But I think it's interesting. I always find it interesting underlying kind of understanding

[00:10:09] the psychology of buying or the psychology of selling.

[00:10:12] Like what have you kind of discovered and what do you kind of help people understand

[00:10:17] in terms of how it applies to sales?

[00:10:19] Yeah. So there's in a B2B environment, there's two decision processes going on simultaneously.

[00:10:25] One with each individual who's going to make a buying decision and a corporate one,

[00:10:30] which has got, you know, purchasing and legal and maybe IT and technical people involved.

[00:10:35] And you need to be able to manage both.

[00:10:38] From a psychology standpoint, people go through four very predictable stages

[00:10:44] when they make a significant decision, buying decision.

[00:10:48] The first one we call need recognition. They decide, hey, do I have a problem?

[00:10:52] How big is the problem?

[00:10:53] How important is that problem?

[00:10:55] Once they decide, yeah, we do have a problem. We probably should fix it.

[00:10:59] They start looking for solutions.

[00:11:01] They go on the Internet, talk to their friends.

[00:11:04] They do some research.

[00:11:06] Then they go into a third stage called evaluate alternatives where they think,

[00:11:10] okay, how are we going to make decisions?

[00:11:12] We've got all this information now.

[00:11:14] They come up with criteria.

[00:11:15] How do I decide between step one and two or option one, two or three?

[00:11:20] And then they move into a final purchase decision stage where they, you know,

[00:11:24] tie a bow around things, make check all of final boxes.

[00:11:28] So to your point about what's the psychology of it,

[00:11:32] we need to selling activities or influencing activities

[00:11:37] need to be aligned to where people are in those four stages.

[00:11:40] The mistake that a lot of companies and sellers make is they have a sales process.

[00:11:45] We prospect, then we ask some questions,

[00:11:48] and then we do maybe a demo or proof of concept,

[00:11:51] and then we do a proposal and then we ask for the order.

[00:11:54] But the problem with that is that we only do those things if the buyer is in the corresponding stage.

[00:12:03] And so I like to say that the selling activities always follow where the decision maker is

[00:12:11] in their decision, not the other way around.

[00:12:14] So you look and say, what stage is somebody in?

[00:12:17] And based on that stage, these are the things you should be doing.

[00:12:21] In fact, we have in the book, there's a table that says,

[00:12:24] if your prospect is thinking and doing these things, they are in this stage.

[00:12:29] And then there's another table that says, if they're in this stage,

[00:12:32] here's your selling objectives and your key activities.

[00:12:35] Right. So you need to align to where they are.

[00:12:39] You know, classic example, if somebody is in the first stage

[00:12:43] and they haven't decided whether or not they're actually going to fix the problem,

[00:12:47] then it's not very appropriate to come back with a proposal

[00:12:52] because someone's going to say, that's stupid.

[00:12:54] I didn't even decide I'm going to do anything. Right.

[00:12:56] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:57] Or if they're in the final stage, someone pop it out.

[00:13:00] Hey, there's a feature I didn't tell you about.

[00:13:02] Can I tell you? Share. Well, it's coming out in a few weeks. Right.

[00:13:06] And someone says, that's kind of stupid.

[00:13:08] I'm just about to sign an order. Yeah.

[00:13:10] So you need to do things based on where people are,

[00:13:14] not based on what your sales process is.

[00:13:17] Okay. And how do you tell?

[00:13:19] Like what are some strategies or techniques that you can use

[00:13:22] to kind of gauge where someone is in the buying process

[00:13:25] or maybe where they've shifted to?

[00:13:27] Yeah. So if, you know, the first stage,

[00:13:30] you look at what they're doing and what they're thinking.

[00:13:34] So have you guys decided to make a decision on solving this labor issue

[00:13:39] or this capacity issue or this HR issue?

[00:13:45] No, no, no. We're still kicking it around.

[00:13:47] Okay. Well then in the first stage, if someone says, yeah, we are.

[00:13:50] What are you doing now?

[00:13:51] Well, we're evaluating other options.

[00:13:54] We're bringing in some different vendors to see what they've got.

[00:13:58] Ah, they're in the second stage.

[00:14:00] Hey, we're putting out an RFP or an RFI.

[00:14:03] I don't know. Let's say an RFP at the end of the month

[00:14:05] and we'll send it to you.

[00:14:07] They're in the evaluate alternative stage.

[00:14:09] They've got criteria that they've developed,

[00:14:12] and now they want to sort of compare that to various vendors, right?

[00:14:15] So you look at what they're doing

[00:14:17] and based on what they're doing, it tells you what you should be doing.

[00:14:21] Yeah. I guess for service companies

[00:14:24] where we're kind of selling things that are sometimes very intangible

[00:14:29] or, you know, it's hard to kind of point at or quantify at some level.

[00:14:33] We're dealing with either intellectual work or service work in various ways.

[00:14:38] How does that change the sales process

[00:14:41] or how you approach the sales process?

[00:14:43] Great question.

[00:14:44] You know, if I look at the people I deal with,

[00:14:46] I use, you know, help in improving their selling skills.

[00:14:50] They're kind of three areas.

[00:14:51] There's professional salespeople.

[00:14:53] There's owners and sales leaders.

[00:14:55] Third group are consultants and advisors.

[00:14:57] And you might say, you know, consultants and advisors, they don't sell, right?

[00:15:01] Well, if what I'd say is if you need to influence someone

[00:15:05] either on the merits of your approach,

[00:15:07] why you're a better option than your competitor

[00:15:09] or for them to accept, you know, your recommendations,

[00:15:13] you need influencing skills.

[00:15:16] And the way I define B2B selling is it's all about influencing.

[00:15:20] It's influencing someone to change

[00:15:23] either their perspective, their behaviors or their situation.

[00:15:27] And that's the core of consulting, right?

[00:15:30] And so what we help with consultants or advisors

[00:15:35] is first change their perspective.

[00:15:38] It's not about just talking about their expertise

[00:15:41] and their recommendations.

[00:15:43] It's again, understanding where somebody is in their,

[00:15:47] you could say buying process,

[00:15:49] but it's really their acceptance process.

[00:15:51] It could be their buying process,

[00:15:53] but where are they in getting their head around your recommendations?

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:58] That process is exactly the same as that influencing process

[00:16:02] is the exact same as B2B selling.

[00:16:04] I'll give you a great example.

[00:16:06] Yeah, please.

[00:16:07] This summer, I got a call from owner of a law firm

[00:16:10] and he'd read my book and said,

[00:16:12] I want you to come out and train my attorneys.

[00:16:15] And you think, attorneys? Do they sell?

[00:16:18] Right? They just give advice.

[00:16:21] Well, they do, but they want people to accept their advice.

[00:16:25] This was a smaller company.

[00:16:27] They had four or five attorneys.

[00:16:29] They wanted to differentiate themselves from the big boys, right?

[00:16:34] The big law firms.

[00:16:36] And the owner realized that to do that,

[00:16:38] they needed to have influencing skills,

[00:16:41] also known as selling skills.

[00:16:44] And so it just shows it whether again,

[00:16:47] whether you've got sales in your title or your job description,

[00:16:51] if you have to influence someone to change their perspectives

[00:16:55] or their behaviors or their situation,

[00:16:57] then that's kind of the skills that we're focused on in our book.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] You know, when you work with organizations,

[00:17:04] what are some of the common challenges

[00:17:06] or common things that are not going right

[00:17:08] or that they're doing wrong from a sales point of view?

[00:17:10] See, there's a couple.

[00:17:11] The big thing I see is it happens not just in sales, but in marketing

[00:17:16] where people spend too much time talking about their products, right?

[00:17:20] Me, me, me.

[00:17:21] Right?

[00:17:22] We've got a great widget.

[00:17:25] The analysts say we are the best

[00:17:28] or we have the best consulting services.

[00:17:31] Here's all the people we consult to.

[00:17:34] And I like to say no one cares.

[00:17:36] Until you put your offering in context

[00:17:40] with a problem that somebody wants to solve

[00:17:43] or an opportunity that somebody wants to capture,

[00:17:45] it makes no sense.

[00:17:47] So I was talking to, I'm doing some coaching for a company right now,

[00:17:52] sells kind of robotics services.

[00:17:55] They set up robotic systems for car manufacturers.

[00:17:58] And one of the sales guys said,

[00:18:00] I'm going to go to a lot of places and drop off brochures

[00:18:03] that talk about how good our products are.

[00:18:05] And I go, no, you don't want to do that.

[00:18:07] I said, what you want to do is drop off a little one pager

[00:18:11] on the problems you solve

[00:18:12] and the opportunities you can capture for them.

[00:18:15] And number one, people will go, wow, you know, I hadn't thought of that.

[00:18:18] That's pretty important for us.

[00:18:20] Come on in and tell me more.

[00:18:22] The second thing is, they told them,

[00:18:24] is that that will differentiate you from everyone else

[00:18:28] instead of coming around and saying, this is how great we are.

[00:18:32] It's hey, would you be interested in knowing

[00:18:34] how we help companies solve this labor issue,

[00:18:38] this legal issue, this compliance issue?

[00:18:41] Right?

[00:18:42] Yeah, I'd be interested in that.

[00:18:44] And that's the mistake is we spend too much time talking about our products

[00:18:49] and not about problems we solve.

[00:18:51] Yeah, interesting.

[00:18:52] In terms of kind of the training process, the strategy process,

[00:18:57] how does this play out?

[00:18:58] When you first come into a company,

[00:19:00] what are the questions you're asking or things you're looking for

[00:19:03] and where do you start in helping them improve their sales strategy,

[00:19:08] their sales system, sales process?

[00:19:10] Great question.

[00:19:11] So I always like to stand back a little bit and say,

[00:19:13] there's three things you need to scale sales revenue generating capability.

[00:19:19] And this is particularly true in small organizations.

[00:19:24] You need good sales processes, you need good management processes,

[00:19:29] and you need consistent execution of both of those.

[00:19:32] And so particularly for small and mid-sized companies,

[00:19:37] you can't expect to hire a rep, give them a comp plan,

[00:19:39] and see sales.

[00:19:40] It just doesn't happen.

[00:19:42] So it's really important that you have some structure in place.

[00:19:45] So the first step is getting people on the same page

[00:19:49] with regard to what our sales process look like.

[00:19:53] And whether you use mine or someone else's,

[00:19:56] everybody needs to be on the same page.

[00:19:59] How do we sell?

[00:20:00] How do we look at opportunities?

[00:20:02] How do we prospect?

[00:20:04] How do we evaluate where we are?

[00:20:06] The second step, and that's just concept.

[00:20:09] So I'll go in and run a workshop, for example.

[00:20:12] We've run two-day workshops.

[00:20:13] I've done it live.

[00:20:15] We also can do it virtually.

[00:20:17] The second step is, you know, you'll know this, Bruce,

[00:20:21] but two weeks later people forget it all.

[00:20:24] In fact, probably a week later.

[00:20:25] Mine are like a sieve.

[00:20:26] Yeah.

[00:20:27] So the key is then you need to start getting people to use it.

[00:20:32] And we have a number of tools, processes.

[00:20:35] So we give people, like again, this other company, once a month,

[00:20:40] we do a 90-minute session.

[00:20:42] Here's a tool.

[00:20:43] Show me how you use this to develop, let's say,

[00:20:46] a prospecting message or to build a call plan or to,

[00:20:51] we'll do a role play.

[00:20:53] So you need to use it.

[00:20:55] And it takes a while before it starts becoming second nature.

[00:20:59] The third key ingredient,

[00:21:01] which is really important, is engaging management,

[00:21:05] owners of the business or sales leaderships.

[00:21:08] Because if they aren't using it, then no one will use it.

[00:21:12] Right?

[00:21:13] Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:14] I was talking to this one sales leader,

[00:21:16] chief revenue officer a couple of months ago.

[00:21:19] And I said, you know, if we run a program for you,

[00:21:22] one of the key success factors is you've got to reinforce it.

[00:21:25] He goes, what do you mean by that?

[00:21:26] And I said, well, let's say somebody comes into you with a deal.

[00:21:30] You know, a deal, an opportunity.

[00:21:32] What do you typically say?

[00:21:34] How much and when is it going to close?

[00:21:36] You might say, oh, and what's the next step?

[00:21:38] What's the next step?

[00:21:39] How much is it?

[00:21:40] When is it going to close?

[00:21:41] Instead, you turn that around and you'd say,

[00:21:44] well, what problems are we trying to solve for that company?

[00:21:47] What are the people that have that problem?

[00:21:50] And do we understand their perspectives?

[00:21:54] Right?

[00:21:55] What's their buying decision process?

[00:21:57] And where are they in that?

[00:21:59] And then based on that, what's our next step?

[00:22:03] So management can, and what I did there,

[00:22:06] I just walked you through the three P's and three selling.

[00:22:09] It's problem people process.

[00:22:11] By asking those kinds of questions,

[00:22:14] you force the sales rep to say, hey, you know what?

[00:22:17] We're the consultant.

[00:22:18] That these things are more important than how much by when.

[00:22:22] Or ultimately, I mean, the way I see that is if we're really going to win,

[00:22:26] we have to solve these problems.

[00:22:27] Knowing how much the deal is and when it's going to close,

[00:22:30] it doesn't actually advance the deal.

[00:22:32] Correct. Correct.

[00:22:33] It's not good.

[00:22:34] It's just a quick, easy thing to say,

[00:22:36] when's this going to close?

[00:22:37] When can I forecast this?

[00:22:39] But if you really want to coach and advise,

[00:22:42] if you ask those questions, then the seller might say,

[00:22:45] hmm, I haven't thought of that.

[00:22:47] I'm not sure what kind of problems we're trying to solve.

[00:22:49] What are we going to do about that?

[00:22:52] So if you know your gaps, if you know what you don't know,

[00:22:55] then you can do something about it.

[00:22:56] You can go on a call, you can ask those questions,

[00:22:59] you can try and get some coaching from other people there.

[00:23:02] But if you don't know what you don't know to use,

[00:23:05] forget his name, but Rumsfeld, yeah, that was him.

[00:23:09] Famous quote.

[00:23:10] Yeah.

[00:23:11] Then all you can do is pitch product across your fingers.

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:16] Kind of just talk about features and hopefully it lands somehow with the client.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:20] I wanted to circle back on something.

[00:23:21] You mentioned marketing.

[00:23:23] I guess how do you differentiate or how do you define kind of marketing versus sales

[00:23:27] and how they work together?

[00:23:28] What's kind of your working model for that?

[00:23:30] Because I think that trips up a lot of companies.

[00:23:32] Yeah.

[00:23:33] It's no secret that the marketing and sales often don't get along, right?

[00:23:36] Marketing salespeople never close all the leads we give them

[00:23:39] and salespeople say, oh, they give us all these crummy leads.

[00:23:43] Right?

[00:23:44] But I think there's some really good areas where marketing can support sales

[00:23:52] to do a better job.

[00:23:53] One of the areas is just what I talked about is to create marketing materials

[00:24:00] that are more about problems and opportunities and less about product.

[00:24:04] Because that's where sellers struggle.

[00:24:07] Tell me what problems we solve, right?

[00:24:10] A website instead of saying, hey, we were voted best services company

[00:24:16] three years in a row.

[00:24:17] Who cares?

[00:24:19] Here's the problems we solve right up front, right?

[00:24:22] Here's the opportunity to allow people to capture right up front.

[00:24:25] Right?

[00:24:26] So messaging from marketing could be really valuable.

[00:24:29] The second thing where I've worked with marketing people is around those four stages

[00:24:35] that we talked about earlier, you know,

[00:24:37] that whether it's need recognition, information search,

[00:24:41] value options and purchase decision.

[00:24:45] Marketing generally produces a lot of collaterals or support materials

[00:24:52] that are late in the cycle.

[00:24:54] They fit into that evaluated alternative stage.

[00:24:58] And so if marketers understood that psychology about how people make decisions,

[00:25:04] they could help sell by creating more tools that fit up front

[00:25:09] in the prospecting stage.

[00:25:11] And how do I get somebody interested in having a conversation with me, right?

[00:25:15] Rather than just late stage material, which are here are features

[00:25:19] and this is why they're so good.

[00:25:21] Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:25:23] Greg, this has been a pleasure.

[00:25:24] If people want to find out more about you, more about P3,

[00:25:27] what's the best way to get that information?

[00:25:29] Two places.

[00:25:30] Certainly have a website, p3selling.com.

[00:25:33] Check it out.

[00:25:34] We've got a lot of great blogs like this one loaded up there

[00:25:38] and a little more information.

[00:25:39] You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

[00:25:41] It's a Greg-Nutter.

[00:25:43] N-U-T-T-E-R.

[00:25:45] And I try once a week to get a post out with a little bit more information.

[00:25:50] So either of those two are the best way to connect with me.

[00:25:53] That'd be great.

[00:25:54] I'm like sure that those links are in the show notes

[00:25:56] so people can get that information.

[00:25:57] Greg, thank you so much for taking the time today.

[00:25:59] It's been a pleasure.

[00:26:00] Thanks, Bruce. Really appreciate it.

[00:26:01] You've been listening to Scaling Up Services with business coach Bruce Eggbelt.

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