The Inside Innovator: A Practical Guide to Intrapreneurship with Louis Gump

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[00:01:17] Visit dashva.nyc to learn more. Now, back to our episode. Welcome, everyone. This is Scaling Up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. Our guest today is Lewis Gump. He is author of The Inside Innovator, a practical guide to intra-paneuorship.

[00:01:32] We're going to talk about that world, about what it takes to really innovate inside of a company, how that's different from entrepreneurship and some of the strategies and techniques and cases that he's worked with. Exciting episode.

[00:01:45] I really think we talk a lot about entrepreneurship, but how do we take some of these ideas and principles and really apply them inside companies and really drive innovation inside of a corporation, inside of a broader company. I'm excited for this conversation.

[00:01:59] With all that, Lewis, welcome to the program. Thanks, Bruce. Great to be here. Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. Before we dig into the book and what you're doing today, let's get a little background. What's the professional background? How did this evolve? Give us the story.

[00:02:13] I feel like one of the luckiest people around in terms of the career path. I actually started in customer service years ago and learned very early on about the importance of meeting customer needs and then worked in a variety of roles.

[00:02:28] One of the foundational ones was leading mobile at the Weather Channel, and I had the opportunity to see the growth arc of that business from something that was peripheral, although promising to something that was driving a large portion of the value of the business.

[00:02:45] I saw how profoundly important it is to innovate from within in addition to the ties that you have outside the company. Then, I went to CNN where I had the opportunity to lead CNN Mobile globally as we launched CNN's first iPhone and Android apps and wrote the strategy.

[00:03:03] We built the team and ended up contributing to the company's ability to connect with viewers there and readers. Then I had the opportunity to be CEO of two small companies both in the digital media space.

[00:03:20] One, we worked on it for a while and then we got a deal with a company called Raycom Media that focuses or at least focused at the time on local broadcasting. Now it's part of gray television.

[00:03:35] When I was doing some consulting after the transaction there, the idea came up, hey, we just invested in this little company. It doesn't even have a name, but the idea is local news nationwide. Would you be interested in leading that?

[00:03:49] We had some conversations with investors including Raycom and ABC Disney and Hearst and others. We got along famously. Within a year, we turned it into one of the top providers of news information on Roku. One of our investors bought it within a couple of years.

[00:04:06] I stayed for a couple of years and then I had a really wonderful opportunity to lead a team at Cox Media, which is the advertising division of Cox Communications, the cable company. That brings me to the book portion of what you mentioned, by the way, being

[00:04:22] involved in industry along the way. It wasn't just those companies but also so many people who taught me and we learned together. Then I had been gestating this idea for several years, hey, where's the book for people who are driving innovation inside companies?

[00:04:39] I know there's a lot about entrepreneurship and I love that and it's really important. And there are a lot of guides for people who want to be the CEO or the CMO or the CIO of some big galactic company.

[00:04:54] But what about somebody who's leading a division within a larger company? And I couldn't find one that worked for me. And I really thought, you know what, a lot of the people I know are doing exactly that, maybe somebody ought to write it.

[00:05:05] And about a year and a half ago I said, you know what? I'm committed. I'm going to do it. And I enlisted the help of a bunch of other people whom I interviewed. And it turned out that they had a lot of great wisdom.

[00:05:16] So I tried to stitch that together into a guidebook that's very practical for people who want to excel in this area. That's excellent. And let's go to define this a little bit. When we talk about intrapreneurship, like what are we referring to

[00:05:29] and how is it different from entrepreneurship? Sure. So intrapreneurship refers to creating value through innovation and growth within a larger organization. And there's a lot that can be said about that at the core of it. It's innovation and growth, and it's not just for experimentation,

[00:05:47] but it's actually contributing to the ability to serve customers to increase revenue, usually to increase profits in addition to any strategic benefit. And this term larger organization is very important because in the beginning I really had in mind companies that you can pick a number,

[00:06:05] but it at least has billions in it. And then I realized, hey, there are a lot of people who are working in organizations that are established and it's less important exactly how big it is than that they have a growth initiative or a way to innovate.

[00:06:21] And then further, I got educated very quickly, including by a friend of mine who leads junior achievement here in Georgia. I got educated very quickly. This is not just for for-profit organizations. It's for nonprofits. It's for educational organizations. It can even be in the government and beyond.

[00:06:38] And so it has pretty broad applicability. And then in terms of the distinction in comparison to entrepreneurship, in general, an entrepreneur is someone who founds or they own a company or both. And when you do that sort of thing, you have decision making

[00:06:57] latitude that most entrepreneurs don't have. Often the scope of your business is more narrowly focused than a company that's been around for a while, and especially if it's a multinational. Often also you have more resources in a brand. So it's not all bad news.

[00:07:14] It's just different, which leads me to a fundamental point about the distinction between these two. They're not derivative of each other. Entrepreneurship is not derivative of entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is not derivative of entrepreneurship. They're two distinct things with some similarities and some differences. And there's no value judgment there.

[00:07:34] Each has its own significant value. Yeah, I guess how is this different from like a Skunk Works project or a spin-off? Like how do you define kind of sort of the boundaries around some of what you're talking about in terms of philosophy or systems or approach

[00:07:51] from some of these other ways in which companies drive innovation? So a Skunk Works project is really just one type of practice of entrepreneurship. And the way I've experienced those sorts of things, I've personally been involved in them

[00:08:05] and also know a lot of other people who have too. Essentially you identify a group of people. You set aside a place where they can do their work without too much interruption. And usually they have enough resources to do something that helps move towards the goal.

[00:08:22] On the other hand, you can have operating teams where you have, you know, in quotes, a day job. And so you have to do this, that and the other thing. You're already overloaded with stuff. And then there's another important project that you cannot do.

[00:08:37] And then you have other people who are just doing their work and they say, you know, what if we did this? And especially if they understand what the strategy of the business is more broadly, they can make enormous contributions. So there are many different types of entrepreneurship

[00:08:55] that can occur in Skunkworks projects or one of them. I'm not sure if I answered everything that you said, but please remind me if I need to cover more ground. Yeah, no, that's good because I think there are a lot of terms out there

[00:09:04] that people sort of think about as ways of driving innovation inside companies and kind of understanding kind of how you frame these or how you kind of collect these into this idea of intra-appinorship. So let's talk a little bit about when you sort of the philosophy

[00:09:19] or what are some of the things you notice around good practices, patterns around companies that really create intra-internship entrepreneurship inside their business? Oh, thanks for asking. It's such an important topic. And then here's where I go to the idea of sustained entrepreneurship.

[00:09:36] It's one thing to be a one hit wonder, essentially through skill or effort or luck or some combination to have some amazing success or at least meaningful success. It's another one to do this repeatedly. An example of there are so many examples of companies that do this.

[00:09:55] Well, probably the one that's best known is Amazon. So I'll just point to them. But also I'm familiar with a specific type of company and company that I worked with at the Weather Channel. Just to use that example, the Weather Channel was actually created within landmark communications,

[00:10:13] which was a local media company out of Norfolk, Virginia. And then the leader of landmark had the idea of creating this 24-7 channel. This is back in the late 70s, early 80s. This channel that would be Weather 24-7 and people thought he was crazy.

[00:10:30] Thought, what are you talking about? Just keep with the newspaper, you know, maybe a little cable. And it turned out that this idea of cable channel was a really good one, especially because it paired up with the growth of cable networks

[00:10:43] overall at the time there were many local cable networks. And so the Weather Channel really pioneered TV and then they pioneered, you know, desktop web and then they pioneered mobile technology. Many more things. There are quite a few companies that do this sort of thing. And that's systematic.

[00:11:02] And that means you have a mindset at the leadership level, including at the CEO level, that innovation is important and we're going to invest in it and we're going to encourage people to have those behaviors, which we can talk about some.

[00:11:16] And we're also going to be willing to take risks. And so that that's part of it. But then you have to set up the systems and the systems of one of my favorite ones, both on the positive side when it happens and on the cost

[00:11:30] of it, when it doesn't happen is you ever seen a company that evaluates all new ventures the same way? And they say, well, you know, we have a big operating business. We're a sizable company. And so everything needs to have a return within, let's say,

[00:11:44] six months and they need to hit, you know, X amount of revenue and Y number of customers. And they apply that like peanut butter. That's a perfect way to squash innovation. On the other hand, if you're looking at a business and saying, hey,

[00:11:59] we have a big operating business, that deserves a certain set of criteria. But on the other hand, our newer and emerging businesses deserve different criteria. And furthermore, we recognize that they may be some of the most important ventures we have in the future,

[00:12:14] even if it's not a year from now, maybe it's three or five. Then you start to have something. There's a lot more, but that's a start. Yeah. And how I mean, you mentioned this kind of culture and then systems

[00:12:25] like what are some details or cultural aspects of companies that sort of do better in terms of driving entrepreneurship and what are kind of values, company culture, or company values that challenge or make it more difficult? So things that help a company to do well,

[00:12:43] I'll go to the characteristics of successful entrepreneurs, but companies because companies tend to hire for these. The first is curiosity. Curiosity is present in every successful entrepreneur I've ever met in a large volume. Second one is action orientation.

[00:13:04] And that goes back to the idea that some people just like to experiment and tinker. Experimenting and tinkering is fine. However, it doesn't necessarily create the kind of value that you're looking for for growth in a business. But somebody who has this curiosity fused with action orientation,

[00:13:20] you start to move along the path. And then you have someone who has risk tolerance. Have you ever seen somebody who's used to making all A's? They're a really good student. And hey, look, I'm all for high achievement.

[00:13:31] But have they ever made decisions to reduce the type of courses they take or not go further out and explore because they need to have that sense of self by kind of getting the A by always being right, by always being successful.

[00:13:46] If that's important to you, you're going to have a hard time as an entrepreneur because some of the things you're going to try are not going to work. And that brings me to the last part, which is important. Companies culturally that are successful tend to have grounded

[00:14:01] optimism and systems to back it up so you can see the future. You have vision, you have a strategy. And even when you hit a few bumps, you say, oh, we learned something. OK, let's apply that and go to the next thing that's valuable for us

[00:14:15] and for our customers. Yeah. How what are some of the kind of practical things like in terms of organizational structure or incentives? Like how how what will foster entrepreneurship, innovation inside a company from kind of a systems process, procedures point of view.

[00:14:35] So there are quite a few of them. I write about a number of them in the book, too. One of them as simple as it is, is a practice of establishing vision, goals and values early because that seems to be a nice recipe for team cohesion.

[00:14:52] Another one is in the budget process, allocating dollars and often allocating time to ventures that may or may not produce the next dollar or the next widget off of the assembly line. OK, another one is assigning accountability to leaders.

[00:15:12] One of the best ways to train your next generation of leaders is to assign them a project that they aren't qualified totally to lead. And what I mean by that is it's not that you know, you pick somebody who is a,

[00:15:25] let's say a coder and you ask them to do great marketing. But you take somebody who is a growing leader as a marketer or as a coder or as a salesperson and you say, we want you to stretch a little bit.

[00:15:40] Here's an assignment where we need to create this product or develop this service and you give them the latitude to go do that potentially to get it right the first time, but also to experiment and iterate on the compensation piece.

[00:15:56] There are quite a few things to be said. You could have a whole conversation on that. Salary and benefits, of course, are valuable. And in fact, they're especially value valuable when you think about the relative stability for an entrepreneur versus an entrepreneur where maybe all your eggs

[00:16:11] are in one basket and a larger company, typically all your eggs are not in one basket. One of the best tools that I've ever seen to inspire people like this is a long term incentive plan or L tip plan.

[00:16:24] And when you include that as part of the mix, then what you're signaling is we're not just thinking about the next quarter and we don't want you to just think about the next paycheck in two weeks.

[00:16:34] We want you to think about creating value over a longer period of time. It's a very powerful incentive. Yeah. Is there some strategies in terms of picking who should really be involved in this entrepreneurship process inside of a company?

[00:16:51] Like, are there roles or kind of qualities of people? How do you select individuals and teams to really go down this path? I'll answer this both at the individual level and also at the group level.

[00:17:04] So at the individual level in the research that I did, 16 traits came up with a top five. And I've already mentioned several of them here around the curiosity, the action orientation, risk tolerance and optimism. And there are others too. I would highlight integrity.

[00:17:23] It's very difficult to have a successful entrepreneurial venture and a lot of other things, too, if you don't have someone who understands how they ground their efforts from the start by building relationships and trust and the bridge building that comes along with that with teams.

[00:17:39] It really helps to find a team that has different skill sets. There's a lot of talk in the marketplace these days, almost to the point where it's become politicized about having diversity in the workforce. What I'm talking about here is really a visceral understanding that differences

[00:18:01] benefit the outcome and those differences can be ones that are talked about a lot or maybe not so much. So I'll give you a story here about someone named Leslie and Leslie was at Turner Broadcasting when Turner bought a sports oriented company.

[00:18:16] And she was a lawyer and she knew a lot about the law, but didn't know much about running businesses. And she joined the oversight team not just to provide legal advice, but also to help steer the ship as this business grew internally.

[00:18:33] And what she did is that she simultaneously through her understanding of the business helped it grow in ways it could not have grown any other way. And on the other hand, she developed as a leader to the point where she was able

[00:18:48] to do many more things far beyond her original legal remit. So you're going to have a team where you have people with different functional expertise, you're going to have potentially introverts and extroverts. One of the things that gets overlooked in efforts like this, it's helpful

[00:19:04] to have people who've been around the company for a long time so they essentially can act like a Sherpa as a growth venture continues to develop. But on the other hand, it's really helpful to have people who come from outside of the business who bring new thinking.

[00:19:18] So when you have the practice of truly valuing differences and then constructing a team around this, lots of magic can happen. Yeah. How do you suggest companies balance the kind of isolation or insulating kind of the team from the sort of internal

[00:19:38] politics, internal systems so they have enough freedom and kind of runway to be able to experiment things but also keep them sort of connected enough that they can sort of leverage and utilize company resources. It feels like there's a balance there that can be tough to achieve.

[00:19:53] It is very tough to achieve. You know, organizations have their own inertia and as a general statement, they like what's familiar and don't like what's new, especially if it involves disruptive change. And yet I don't know any major successful

[00:20:07] company that's managed to get a, you know, get out of jail free card from disruptive change. You don't get the hall pass. Instead, you have to engage. And as part of that, it's very important to create protected spaces for growing ventures.

[00:20:26] One of the best ways and it's tied to something that came up before. One of the best ways to underachieve and to miss markets is by just, you know, essentially adding on some initiative. Let's say you've got a desktop web business and you're building mobile back

[00:20:43] in the day or let's say you've got a successful, ongoing venture and then you need to incorporate AI. One of the best ways to underachieve is to just say add that to your plate. We aren't going to do anything special and see if you can figure it out.

[00:21:00] At the very least, you need dollars in time, even if you're borrowing some resources here and there for the venture. On the other hand, it's very, very important to connect to the rest of the organization most of the time. Sometimes you need a Skunkworks project.

[00:21:17] Sometimes you need an innovation center where things are truly kind of almost hermetically sealed because you don't want to have the communication. Maybe there's confidentiality. Maybe there's competitive pressure. But by and large, the way these

[00:21:30] ventures really achieve their full success is not by avoiding the rest of the organization 100 percent of the time, but rather tapping in to the strengths of the rest of the organization. Let's say that you have talented marketing team members. Let's say you have talented sales team members.

[00:21:46] Let's say you have customers that can help you grow the business with aligned interest. That's where you can get the exponential effect that gets lost if you're just trying to do it totally isolated. And lastly, it's very difficult just practically speaking.

[00:22:01] If you're doing something over on the side and the rest of the company doesn't know about it over a period of time, then it's very difficult to get the excitement and buy-in from people who can help throughout the organization. Yeah. Are there heuristics that use to

[00:22:17] figure out what to use kind of an entrepreneurship model around in terms of ideas or initiatives versus what you should kind of just do a kind of normal internal kind of processes.

[00:22:31] And I guess I'll put on the table the idea of go out and buying kind of some of this stuff. Right. Like finding acquisition opportunities to say, hey, look, if someone else is doing this, we can just acquire this and integrate it

[00:22:41] quickly into the company versus doing it ourselves. OK, so this is another place where there's a lot to say. One of the most important things that an entrepreneur has to do to maximize the chances of success is to understand the broader company strategy.

[00:22:59] I was talking with Marie Quintero Johnson, who led strategy at Coca-Cola. And she described the importance of this and she said, you know, and I'm paraphrasing here every now and again, you have something that just

[00:23:12] comes out of the blue, but for the most part, you have people who understand the strategy of the company and then they find initiatives and support initiatives which help advance the strategy of the company. So that's a critically important starting place.

[00:23:28] And then once you do that, you know, in the book, I've got 10 slides, for example, that you put together and, you know, there are various aspects of understanding the business opportunity so you essentially can make the case.

[00:23:42] Even in the most enlightened companies, it's rare that you're going to have somebody who just says, you know, here's a bunch of money. Go do something interesting. And I know a bunch of people would like that, by the way, I might have liked that from time to time.

[00:23:54] But, you know, generally speaking, what you have is, you know, a business case and you say, hey, the strategy of the company is excellent, say to reach customers on multiple platforms as media company.

[00:24:07] And then we have an emerging platform which can help us to do that in new ways. It's especially helpful in many cases if you show how the new initiative reinforces the existing brand and supports other platforms.

[00:24:20] That tends to be a, you know, start virtuous circles in a lot of places. And then, you know, you can do a SWOT analysis and make sure that you have a shared understanding that can be understood by, you know, product team members, marketing team members, technology team members

[00:24:39] and importantly, finance team members. And then you make the case. And once you've got the green light to move ahead, then it's a lot about execution. One of the things that you mentioned was going out and buying. And there are a couple of different versions of that.

[00:24:54] One is like if you've got a big enough venture and you just need a certain component and somebody else has built it, maybe you buy it and bolt it on. However, more often for entrepreneurs that I've seen,

[00:25:06] you find an entrepreneur who's created some sort of amazing service or business, even if it's flawed, even if it's early and you create a partnership. One of the biggest findings of the Inside Innovator was that entrepreneurs often provide entrepreneurs with their big breakthroughs.

[00:25:24] If you can imagine the type of company that, you know, it's really innovative, it's creating something cool. Somebody's been working in their proverbial garage or a small office for months or years and then they get a big deal with Home Depot and they can scale with that.

[00:25:38] That changes the world for them. Yeah, big time. So if I'm an individual inside one of these larger organizations and see an opportunity that I want to kind of use this approach, how do I go about this? How do I build support?

[00:25:52] How do I communicate to management, to leadership, kind of the opportunity and kind of set up a program internally inside my company? So there are a few different paths for this. And one of the kind of forks in the road is whether

[00:26:06] the company has an established process for innovation or whether it's less formal. If it's established, then, you know, I would probably be remiss not to say look for ways to plug in with something that's already working. That means you spend less time creating wheels and more time

[00:26:24] benefiting from the work that's been done before. Those processes can take the form of, you know, new initiative pipelines that can be innovation centers and others. However, a lot of us don't have that benefit. And in that case, there are a couple of different paths

[00:26:42] that I've seen work more often than others. One of them is if you have a supportive boss, team up with your boss, make the case and then essentially tag team to work through this idea and vet whether it's something that can be pursued.

[00:26:59] Another one is to approach various decision makers within the organization. Again, typically with the understanding of your boss, but let's say they either have the trust in you to go do it or they're busy or it's not something that they're interested in, but they're generally supportive.

[00:27:15] Once you have typically you want the green light from that perspective, but then you can work through someone else, whether it's the chief technology officer or the chief product person or you can, you know, and if you don't think it's ready for primetime,

[00:27:28] start talking with people in that area and say, hey, I had this idea. I don't know how well it will work in our company, but I want to run it by you and get your thoughts.

[00:27:40] And then not only can you make the idea better, but you also get support. And then, you know, Bruce, there's another thing that happens with ideas like this and people who come up with great ideas. And this is where the company from my perspective has a reciprocal

[00:27:54] opportunity and obligation. If the company isn't able to absorb that, that's where they lose some of their best people. Yeah, because entrepreneurs are often the people who are driving productive change. And if the company doesn't have a way to channel these ideas,

[00:28:09] at least with a little bit of effort, even if it's not totally, you know, fluid, then in that case, the entrepreneur may need to look for another home where they can make realize that idea. Yeah. Are there any, I guess, incentive programs that you've seen work?

[00:28:26] I know because a lot of what drives entrepreneurship is the idea of building a company and having an exit. And there's professional and financial rewards around this. How do you incent intrapreneurship inside organizations?

[00:28:41] OK, so I'm familiar with teams that have done this in a lot of different ways. And I want to make a foundational point before answering specifically. And that is I hope and expect that on the teams that I'm associated with, that the starting point is contribution.

[00:29:01] Because if people are looking and I know you're not suggesting this, but I just want to establish this for anyone who's listening. If your focus more on the reward for you than on contribution for the organization and for your customers, you're barking up the wrong tree

[00:29:16] and you're going to be less successful. It's very practical. A lot of the time, hey, look, we're all trying to pay the mortgage or pay the rent or whatever else it is that's an important thing to do.

[00:29:28] And we're trying to take care of ourselves and the people we care about over time. However, from my perspective, the starting point is contribution. Once you establish that, then there are many different types of rewards and reward systems.

[00:29:43] You know, the financial ones are perhaps the most obvious and there's everything from the salary for salespeople, compensation or commission and then incentive plans, bonuses and whatnot. What I find is that that is kind of only one of the areas that matter to entrepreneurs.

[00:30:04] Most entrepreneurs that I know want to learn. They've got that driving curiosity. So how do you give them more resources to be successful? That tends to be helpful along the way. How do you help them find leadership roles within the industry so they can grow

[00:30:18] their knowledge and grow their network and expand the ways that this organization can be effective? There are a lot of different ways to do that. And lastly, just specific development opportunities. If there's one initiative and it's working, you know, maybe it still needs attention.

[00:30:35] But at a certain point, if that needs to be handed off to another operating unit, make sure that person has another opportunity to grow and develop and contribute. Yeah. What are some other resources that that people can use outside their organizations? Are there communities, programs,

[00:30:51] networks that people can tap into to help support them in this process? There are typically a lot of them. And in fact, I dedicated a chapter of the book to getting involved in industry associations. And so as a bridge to that comment, what I'll say first is

[00:31:07] that it helps if you're, you know, where it's feasible and where you can do this while observing any confidentiality needs that you have as a company, get to know people just in the course of business, your business partners, your your peers in the industry and beyond.

[00:31:24] And then within industry associations, one of the easiest typically is to attend conferences. Sometimes if you're an expert, you get asked to speak or you have the opportunity to speak, especially if you team up with your marketing and PR team to help you find those opportunities.

[00:31:39] And then sometimes there are boards in these industry associations. I was on the board of the Mobile Marketing Association for 10 years and I served as treasurer and vice chair and global chair. And as I did that kind of work, not only was it giving back,

[00:31:57] which was the primary intention, but also I learned so much and met so many interesting people. So it's a great way to simultaneously find contribution and learning and fulfillment altogether. Yeah, Lewis, this has been great. If people want to find out more about you, more about the book,

[00:32:14] what's the best way to get that information? So the easiest way is to go to LewisGump.com. The book is available, the Inside Innovator at many different booksellers along the way. I'm gratified with the reception that the book has had. I'm also available on LinkedIn.

[00:32:31] So I try to be easy to find and I'm just trying to learn from and support people who are interested in this topic. Lewis, thank you so much for taking the time today. It's been a pleasure. You're welcome. Thank you, Bruce.

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