MSP Perspective on Recruiters

[00:00:04] Welcome to MSP 1337. I'm your host Chris Johnson, a show dedicated to cybersecurity

[00:00:13] challenges, solutions, a journey together, not alone. Welcome everybody to another episode

[00:00:24] of MSP 1337. I'm joined this week with by Join This Week. I am joined this week

[00:00:32] by Charles Love with show tech solutions and welcome to the show Charles. Thanks, Chris.

[00:00:37] So, a couple weeks ago I had Ted White on MSP, a recruiter for MSPs and I had, you know,

[00:00:52] talked to you on multiple occasions about your experience with using a recruiter to find

[00:00:58] employees. I've talked to techs who have gone through recruiting processes and have had mixed

[00:01:05] experiences largely because I think the recruiter process was not dedicated to the MSP space.

[00:01:13] I won't name the particular recruiter that comes to mind, but it's one that we are all

[00:01:19] too familiar with over the last 30, 40 years, probably at some point in time, Charles, even you

[00:01:23] and I know I have at one point in time used that recruiting service and you were just

[00:01:28] wowed with the way they kind of coaxed you into saying like, we just got all these opportunities

[00:01:33] lined up for you and you're like, awesome. I'll have a job like tomorrow or yeah, really

[00:01:37] never. So, obviously the space has changed. You know, with all the layouts we've seen

[00:01:45] happening over the last 90 days, six months, we also know that the talent pool is bigger

[00:01:52] than what we normally see as far as looking for candidates to at least for certain positions.

[00:01:58] So, I'm just going to re-grigitate a couple of things that Ted said on the call we had a

[00:02:03] couple of weeks ago. One was the amount of time an MSP spends looking for a candidate and he kind

[00:02:10] of pointed out like on average somewhere between 10 and 15% of your time is dedicated on a weekly

[00:02:17] basis, conservatively saying for you know, 10 to 12 weeks, sometimes longer and a lot of it's

[00:02:23] tied to the number of candidates or resumes that are suddenly wanting to come work for,

[00:02:31] filling the blank organization and work experience ranges from spent the last three weeks as a

[00:02:37] brista at some coffee shop. And I'm perfect for this position to you know, they have way more

[00:02:44] experience than what you're looking for and they're not even remotely in that category. Is that a fair

[00:02:50] assessment? Yeah and that may even be on the low side. That's a trend.

[00:02:58] Yeah I mean, so in the past when we've had to do some type of recruiting,

[00:03:05] it's like if I go into the dentist, right you just you just don't want to do it.

[00:03:12] Because you just know what's about to happen. You're going to get locked into things.

[00:03:18] You're going to get on these calls. People are never going to show their or they show and they

[00:03:24] don't know how to operate a camera and it's like oh my god, this is this isn't seen to the

[00:03:30] and you just wait there's failing already. Yeah so one of my kind of jokes is the first test

[00:03:37] this can you get past teams boss and if you keep the past the teams boss, which people struggle with

[00:03:45] and we're technical and we sell Microsoft so we're going to use teams right?

[00:03:51] But you know, you can see it's about it in the in the frame of my day right. So if I'm going

[00:03:56] to interview somebody before that call I need to spend 10 15 minutes again checking that resume

[00:04:03] and now because I do everything with a booking link I am now locked a two hour window because

[00:04:10] I have buffers before and after every appointment. So to book somebody just to be like hey I saw

[00:04:16] your resume can you read it to me? It's going to lock two hours of my day and then for that person

[00:04:25] to not show or get frustrated and give up because they can't figure out teams are they totally

[00:04:30] forgot about the meeting. It's a super production killer that's why I think 10 to 15% is way low.

[00:04:38] I think it's far higher. So so we're I think and obviously I may have to do some updates but

[00:04:45] the conversation that I had was really more about like the specific intentional time

[00:04:51] not actually talking about maybe potentially to your point the productivity loss.

[00:04:57] Like the one that it all counts. Yeah yeah no like and this is kind of true when we talk about like

[00:05:03] how long someone should someone spend on like an administrative task

[00:05:09] making them in a non-belible state right like I get that you're struggling with the

[00:05:14] his but maybe we should have somebody else take that on for you so you can go back doing

[00:05:19] the things that make us money. Yeah and so let me let me kind of paint a picture here.

[00:05:26] So a prior to this year I pretty much have hired everybody on the technical team here at Shota

[00:05:32] so I know what's involved finding the people, checking references, doing all the things, asking

[00:05:39] all the questions you know all that kind of stuff. Right and it's a it's a giant time suck.

[00:05:44] So what happens is when we really need people I just focus on work and I don't get the people

[00:05:51] right because I know it's just it's it's a nightmare that I'm going to deal with. Right this year

[00:05:56] we made the decision to work with a recruiter and so we tried it on the sales team first.

[00:06:06] Just to make sure was good and then we did roll of sales someone in that roll. Correct yeah

[00:06:14] to hire a new like a appointment center okay we leveraged a recruiter and I was like oh damn that

[00:06:23] was easy like from the point of being introduced to the person to the point where they're

[00:06:29] buttoned seed here in the office I didn't have to do a whole lot. So I was like well that that was

[00:06:37] kind of cool let's see if we could do it again but this time let's do it with the technical resource

[00:06:45] so I'll give you some kind of things that I learned along the way when when you work with

[00:06:52] anybody to help find talent for you you have to give them the whole story right like you kind of

[00:07:02] have to treat the recruiter as a potential interview e because they don't know a question's that's

[00:07:08] right ask ask they don't know a question's that right and we're fortunate enough to work with

[00:07:14] somebody who literally used to work in a MSP so she kind of gets it and I'm not talking to somebody

[00:07:20] who worked at a MSP 30 years ago you know like recent recent work as an MSP and I just walked

[00:07:28] through all my crazy questions you know my question right yeah because we worked together and

[00:07:36] like I had to explain to her the four walls tell me the four walls story and which means like

[00:07:43] a customer moves into a new building what do they need for their four walls right so I explained

[00:07:47] her that I tell her about background checks and then I said you know what and then I want you to

[00:07:52] ask them how crops circles are made she's like what and I go yeah how crops circles are made I don't

[00:08:00] care what they say I don't care if they laugh I don't care if they're serious but that's the

[00:08:04] world we live in where our techs get asked really random weird stuff and I want to see how they act

[00:08:12] I'm not asking if crops circles are real but we're gonna get two types of answers well three

[00:08:19] I refuse to answer the question or well they probably use plywood or the spaceship lands

[00:08:28] right what are they going to be or they could honestly say I don't know and I or like you

[00:08:33] know I'd have to get back to you on that one that's a new question for me like you know there's

[00:08:37] really not a right answer but there's definitely a wrong answer no but I want to hear how you answer

[00:08:41] right right so when the person goes well I don't know I was like all right so let's just pretend

[00:08:49] we're making fake crops circles let's just pretend that how would you go about doing that because I want

[00:08:54] to hear I want to hear how they're thinking or they're gonna say the spaceship lands right and

[00:09:01] that's not a problem but it's a bit of an answer when you go get yeah so you just want to see

[00:09:07] because customers just sit you with stuff right so the key here is if you're gonna work with

[00:09:14] a recruiter you have to explain your style you have to walk him through kind of like your sales funnel

[00:09:21] for an employee you know do they how do they look on the camera not that looks matter you know

[00:09:29] because I'm in this universe but you know do they do they do they yeah but do they know how

[00:09:38] like do they know how to frame themselves in there right that kind of stuff like can they

[00:09:45] can they operate are they driving law on video right that's my favorite

[00:09:51] ideal people also I have a couple questions before we go deeper into this so a couple things

[00:09:56] that come to mind for me and remembering back when we were together there are so many things

[00:10:00] that have to happen that I know what I know now I would not have done it the way I did so like

[00:10:07] nothing against using services like on force because that was a big deal for us when we were building

[00:10:12] you know untangled and I remember when we decided to hire somebody all time had been vetted

[00:10:19] through a third party when we went on them through the ADT process or paycheck second

[00:10:24] which one was came back like you can't have this person they're on a student visa not a work visa and

[00:10:31] it exposed a whole bunch of risk and liability so that was one and then the other one that

[00:10:37] comes to mind is kind of what you started talking about and that is the culture piece I think like

[00:10:44] you're kind of hinting at where you know understanding how our organization operates how I

[00:10:51] as you know it's universe operate here at ShowTech like the expectation what is it look like

[00:10:57] when I have do I wear a collar shirt can I get past the teams boss all of those things right

[00:11:02] and that got me thinking I just attended this Paxi momentum and one of those speakers was talking

[00:11:10] about cybersecurity it will be sorry about your culture as an organization one of the things he brought

[00:11:16] up was that you know your vision and your core values he's like cybersecurity should be part of that

[00:11:24] discussion nothing should be one of those things but like how does it fit in and so it's like

[00:11:29] that makes me think like okay so when you're talking to a recruiter you know what are the things

[00:11:33] that you then would share like hey not just our culture as far as like the way we

[00:11:39] act and behave but like there's like these underlying are they even things that you can ask from a

[00:11:45] question standpoint and advance is this getting into more of the interview process?

[00:11:50] Well and that's where working with the recruiter you kind of have to treat them like HR

[00:11:55] right and they know what they can't get in say right okay um but the good ones like ours

[00:12:03] I get two pieces to paper prior to every interview and she doesn't write like she puts it on

[00:12:08] the appointment for me she gives me a 15 minute ready buffer she calls me before the meeting just

[00:12:14] making sure we're good nice and then I basically get like what does it see I A dossier on

[00:12:21] some of the yeah you have a confidential top secret um and also yeah yeah I get it I get one

[00:12:27] document that is their interpretation of all the things the crop circle question that

[00:12:32] can they drive or they legally allowed to be here the all that kind of stuff yeah um and their

[00:12:38] opinion like hey when I asked how to set up a firewall they said this right

[00:12:43] because I asked I'm not going to give you all my questions but there's about five or six things

[00:12:48] I want to know prior to somebody and I and the recruiter is the person who is like kind of

[00:12:53] pre vetting everybody so to get yeah so to get uh this new employee we have I think she

[00:13:00] entered you she sent something along one of the 100 people and I was presented with four

[00:13:09] and those are the top four and she gave me kind of a rating on her four and then I did my interviews

[00:13:17] and now I don't have to get the who a show tech story I don't have to walk them through what we do

[00:13:22] because that has all been done by somebody else being there. The time is valuable and regardless of

[00:13:30] the role they're going to be in the things that would come out as cybersecurity questions or how

[00:13:36] you behave in situations like you know building crop circles. Now you actually have an understanding

[00:13:42] of how they would operate in theory at a very high level on things that might be scary because

[00:13:49] they at least have some creative and analytical thinking they're not just like yeah I don't know what

[00:13:55] I do. Yeah and all of the nonsense like like you said time is money but all the nonsense is

[00:14:02] already done part of the speakers at first so we can just get right into it right so my first question

[00:14:08] is hey before we get started I know you spoke with you know whoever um to have any questions

[00:14:15] before we you know before we begin because I want to make sure your questions are answered and then

[00:14:20] I have a couple of questions you know just kind of walking through the thing and I find it just we

[00:14:25] don't have to have an hour long meeting right it's like it's in about 20 minutes okay

[00:14:31] yeah it's about 20 30 really depends on the person depends on the questions they have

[00:14:36] but it it's really nice when you have somebody doing all the heavy lifting and you just get to be

[00:14:41] the guy that or gal just kind of make a decision right and I'll tell you in the beginning I'm like

[00:14:49] this is nuts because obviously there's a fee right why should we pay the fee

[00:14:56] I could do this myself and I'm like oh wait I don't have time to do it myself

[00:15:01] so let's pay the fee yeah and that's what we did and it's it's it's really working out well for us

[00:15:09] so I just through um this ended chat GPT like you know what questions should I as an interview

[00:15:16] we should I ask you know Charles love in my interview and the question that I thought was interesting

[00:15:23] is the first thing and asks about is um about the role you know describing the typical day

[00:15:30] for the position you know what what types of like did you get your questions from Chad

[00:15:34] GPT or like but I just thought like you know what are the biggest challenges someone this position

[00:15:40] would face yeah and I have in this last round I was as that exact question right like

[00:15:48] from the time I walked through the door to tell me what my day looks like and uh I would much

[00:15:53] rather really set the stage that way on the on my first call with the person to explain how I

[00:16:01] envision their day going then let me tell you about our benefits okay there's right if nobody remembers

[00:16:08] yeah this isn't only walking into a box store where your job is to just run things across the

[00:16:13] conveyor belt and benefits are the only thing that really matters because you're gonna do the same

[00:16:17] thing every day for the foreseeable future unless you leave to go do something else yeah and

[00:16:25] it's just it's you know for the larger MFPs who have an HR person and it does all the vetting

[00:16:31] and all that stuff that they're all not in going yet is what we do anyway but you know we're only

[00:16:36] 12 people now we don't have we don't have somebody pre vetting that's why we smart source somebody

[00:16:42] did you report so what does that look like in the in the in the context of you know you're building

[00:16:48] essentially a program to enhance and support the culture of showtake which when I talk about

[00:16:55] cybersecurity I believe that one of the most important things to be successful with cybersecurity

[00:17:01] as part of you know services offered solution-simple-mitted revolves truly around culture,

[00:17:08] the vision, the core values all of those pieces does that to some degree when you're talking

[00:17:15] to a candidate is that more important than talking about their skill level from a technical standpoint

[00:17:21] like how do you balance those two things depends on the role right it really depends on the role

[00:17:28] so if we're getting if we're interviewing like a super senior like you know rock star tech my

[00:17:35] questions are going to be very different than if I'm interviewing a generic you know level generic tech

[00:17:42] yeah yeah level one level two like in jack of all trains or jay all trains right

[00:17:50] yeah like I'm more conversational like hey tell me what's your screwed up in the last two years

[00:17:56] give me one thing that you'd be terrified if I find out you did and then I want to see because like

[00:18:02] I know my story right I put too big of a screw into hard drive and I tried hard drive right

[00:18:07] so decommissioned that is what you did yeah yeah but there's always like what did you learn from

[00:18:14] and when the when the interview we is like well no I'm fine everything is great

[00:18:21] and that's that's a flag to me because not everything is great there's a reason we're having a conversation

[00:18:27] and I started talking about that one just new movie I think it's called me Tharabancens you

[00:18:31] I've told you about this before where they celebrate failures yeah right and they celebrate

[00:18:37] failures because that's the only way you can grow right and I want to hear from these candidates

[00:18:44] what they botched and how they recovered and oh my god I I think in 2000

[00:18:52] I put the too long of a screw remember back in the day there were two sizes of those

[00:18:58] I have a little bit of a small one and the bottom and they were the same diameter but not the same link

[00:19:04] yeah so the one that back then was finnied this if you used a wrong screw it would touch the

[00:19:09] motherboard and fry at the motherboard yep so here we are this happened in 2000 right

[00:19:16] we're 24 years into it and every time I installed a hard drive to this day I still hold the screw

[00:19:23] up to the hard drive to make sure it's not going to touch the thing but you know

[00:19:29] 24 years later I still have the habit but but that's something because I I grounded some

[00:19:35] dude Tharabancens back when there you know we had backups but still it was pain in the butt

[00:19:40] hard drive to more than a hundred bucks back then no they were like and that was the early days of

[00:19:45] fries and so even then it was still like unless you got the bargain bin they were priced yeah

[00:19:51] yeah this is C.G. Big Spitty IDE cable you know like oh yeah like two two gigs four gigs

[00:19:59] yeah maybe maybe but uh but like that's the stuff I want to hear like hey I want to hear how you

[00:20:05] recover because if I can get you telling stories during an interview sure I can really understand

[00:20:13] your frame of mind right is it going to be a everything is good like are you a robot because that's

[00:20:21] someone trying to like I want to have a role for you but it's not gonna be the one that we're talking

[00:20:26] about right now yeah yeah so my my interview's found a little bit different right so what we'll

[00:20:33] do is well so just to kind of go back to the recruiter thing show print me we'll have the call

[00:20:38] and then I stay on with the recruiter and we talk about it right then right there this way it's

[00:20:43] it's in like for me and then ask that question so you're saying that the recruiter is on for the

[00:20:48] interview yes she's uh she typically will camera up in the beginning and then say all right i'm

[00:20:55] gonna turn your child Charles's director love a house and then she goes quiet so now I have kind

[00:21:01] of a secret person in the room's not really secret you could see her picture and the

[00:21:04] yeah yeah but uh and then right after because let's let's face it if you and I have a phone call

[00:21:12] and like oh hey I'll call you tomorrow let's talk about our call you and I are never calling each other

[00:21:17] or we're never remembering the conversation and then three days later we're like what did we do

[00:21:23] so so a question on that so you have that interview you have the conversation with the recruiter

[00:21:28] let's say you're moving forward is that moving forward with an in-person interview then or

[00:21:33] what does that typically look I mean I realize you can hire people anywhere in the world but

[00:21:37] in your case assume you're looking for especially for certain role you're looking for them to be

[00:21:42] in the office for the most part um if it is going to be in office role to me it's really important

[00:21:47] that they they come see the team yep um it's you know it's not a dictatorship um so if i want to

[00:21:56] hire somebody we definitely will do a culture interview just a friend and then I won't even be in

[00:22:03] the room gotcha um so like all kind of started and i'll get like the guys or whoever the girl

[00:22:08] swirvers in the office and then don't just shoot the crap with the with the person talk about cars

[00:22:15] or barcraft or whatever it may be obviously talk about work and how it is things like that but

[00:22:22] when when when when they're done they get walked downstairs and I just you know I quickly sit

[00:22:27] with whoever's in the interview and go hey what do you think yeah and you know like we've had people say

[00:22:35] oh i don't know like in here's why i don't know or all of the he's always going to fit in he's

[00:22:41] you know to bathe his alliance he's on hard yes to fight that but it's it also let's the team

[00:22:49] know that they're a part of the decision right um there's a whole with them you're either losing

[00:22:55] you're either losing your team or you're not hiring a person that that's usually what i you know

[00:23:00] not but i did this before but in my observations today i would go i'd rather not hire somebody

[00:23:08] if it's going to cause conflict with the team then hire the best engineer in the world

[00:23:13] yeah and it just you you get a lot out of it when you the person who's the decision maker

[00:23:21] gets to leave sometimes i'll go into the studio next door and just kind of be available

[00:23:26] and i'll walk by the room but sometimes i'll just leave the kind of the tens on the roll sure just so

[00:23:30] that i can hear um and then so once the once the text meet with me then you could bet my

[00:23:38] recruiters on the phone me had to go right and then i'd bring them with her she calls the

[00:23:45] candidate and then we decide if we're gonna make him offer so like i because it's been done to me

[00:23:52] i don't do this let's drink somebody along for six weeks we're just gonna tell you right away

[00:23:57] like if you're not a fit you're gonna be told you're not a fit this way you don't have to

[00:24:02] sit here and be like oh man i'm gonna be working at sounds though do you paint the picture of like

[00:24:08] where showtake is going like hey our roadmap for the next two to three years these are some

[00:24:13] of our goals do you see yourself being a part of that like you know more than just like tunnel vision

[00:24:18] in the job role but like does it art as a go back to depends on the role um for the most part we're

[00:24:26] pretty clear that this is a rocket ship that has been ignited and we're still figuring out trajectory

[00:24:34] you know in mostly angle of the rocket today yeah yeah and you know someday you're gonna have amazing

[00:24:41] days and sometimes you're gonna have not so amazing day so as long as the amazing date outweights

[00:24:46] and not so yeah we're doing pretty good but i try to be as real as possible because if we're

[00:24:52] gonna bring you in and we're gonna be training all that stuff you know like you know will I

[00:24:57] have to take up desks calls yes you will i don't care who you are be on her take self-desk calls

[00:25:03] right nobody's above that so sometimes just about being uh the voice on the other into the phone

[00:25:08] right yeah so we we we try to be as transparent as like tool tool faults sure where we've

[00:25:16] had people like yeah i don't know this this i i don't want a rocket ship i want to be in a robot

[00:25:23] alright cool really this may not be for you i mean i guess to some degree we see a lot of things

[00:25:29] you know this when i was talking to um TED about recruitment process we were talking about like

[00:25:34] certain generational gaps that have things like you know got the job offer and you know showed

[00:25:42] up on day one and then didn't ever come back because they took another job offer after taking

[00:25:47] the ones i had them but since the first day so let's talk about that because that's absolutely

[00:25:55] happened somebody has gone to lunch in my past experience and because never come back um um

[00:26:02] it's nice about the recruiter we we we have a warranty we have a warranty period of 90 days

[00:26:09] nice so in the event within the first 90 days there's a misfire either on either side i just go

[00:26:17] back to the recruiter and i'm like hey uh something didn't work out but chances are she's gonna know

[00:26:24] because the person i work with keeps tabs with the hires like every week or so so she's

[00:26:32] high as a going and then you know just kind of make sure everyone's good so far you know i don't

[00:26:39] know i'm assuming a couple weeks i'm guessing up until the 90 day the warranty went there

[00:26:45] because then she'll find and that actually happened where we had to restart the process again

[00:26:51] got um and that's getting what they're doing i mean i mean i realize it discourages a recruiter

[00:26:57] that's what their job is i mean so anytime there's a failure it's always like i fail but like

[00:27:02] for you like if you've gotten to the point where they're coming into the office there are you're

[00:27:06] already you know looking at them as part of your team like it's not like you wait 90 days ago well

[00:27:13] before we pull back the curtains they can really see where we get our coffee and who's responsible

[00:27:19] for taking the trash out um you do it right out of the gate right like it's you're not waiting

[00:27:25] for them to you know be comfortable before they get to know Charles love what Charles loves style

[00:27:32] for sure and you know it's it's really a partnership or you can't look at them as a vector

[00:27:38] to to the point where uh like our recruiter will literally text the person that they have

[00:27:45] like that of the before the work and say hey here's where you're supposed to park she has

[00:27:49] me actually go take a photo of the parking spot and she'll go as far as texting the employee park here

[00:27:56] go to the third floor in 845 after Charles bring him down until he likes donuts i'm just kidding

[00:28:02] i do like those she doesn't tell them all like those um yeah but uh you know so she's very much

[00:28:10] apart about you um and you know checks in with me every few weeks checks in with the carry the

[00:28:18] the president every few weeks so this gives her the opportunity to plan for future expansion for you

[00:28:23] yes yeah i've already reached out and we're like all right we're getting ready to prep a new one

[00:28:29] you know let's start a couple weeks let's start up the engine again right don't go far when you're

[00:28:34] urgently needing me employee higher with yeah so like it's not an e-jerk reaction to get them in

[00:28:39] in the office right yeah and she has like a bank of people right because if you remember when she

[00:28:45] presented let's say you i told you she presented us four people yeah i may have been loffling between

[00:28:51] two of her four so chances are when it comes to all right i'm ready for that next person she can

[00:28:57] always reach back to number two and be like hey there's another opportunity would you like to just

[00:29:03] have one more quick call because maybe i don't have to go through the whole shabak right the

[00:29:07] package jump and do that so i want to go back before we wrap this up uh to the the story you know

[00:29:14] a time that you messed up had to take ownership of it i like the horse the one scooter on the

[00:29:19] hard drive i think everybody's been there at some point i remember i had a really good one

[00:29:24] that i won't share on this call because they'll know immediately if they ever listened to this but i

[00:29:29] had won this was probably two thousand and four i was walking down the hallway to put a new

[00:29:36] knit card into one of our servers and when i touched the door to go into the server room

[00:29:42] the blue spark arct and that thousand dollar knit card was no good yeah but i think we all

[00:29:50] have hardware stories if we go back away's um have you had any doosies that were like in the

[00:29:56] technical space but like maybe software driven you know accidentally used the wrong global

[00:30:01] for 365 or something but you're like wow i mean that would have taken a lot for me to admit that

[00:30:06] that quickly to someone i don't know you know this last couple of batches i haven't heard any

[00:30:14] amazing disease i've heard about people deleted stuff right before the last top yeah like you know

[00:30:23] just nothing like earth shattering like yeah you know i i called Microsoft and i gave them my

[00:30:29] password nothing like that right right the you know because i had the pop up on my screen to let

[00:30:34] me you need it to make that phone call yeah exactly it's usually yeah it usually somebody who says yeah

[00:30:41] i got screamed up i explain the you had to call the sheriff so i know now i'm not supposed to

[00:30:48] you know it's normally something like that sure they're all you know at the end of the day

[00:30:55] they're sharing an uncomfortable situation even if it's not the doozy i mean you remember the story

[00:31:01] if i said the words you might know exactly the story i'm talking about because i think you are

[00:31:06] with untangled when it happened it involved deleting a policy for a bunch of mail boxes i believe i

[00:31:14] then internet deleted all of the accounts yeah i'll only make that um that was the most uh

[00:31:23] clicking with a mouse that i had to do in a very short period of time i think it ended up

[00:31:27] being 1175 clicks because i counted them yeah well uh Charles anything else um that we should

[00:31:36] share with we go to this recruiter process that i think if you're a solution we're about

[00:31:40] listening to this this is i mean why why would you not use a recruiter knowing how much work

[00:31:47] you would spend otherwise to potentially not even get anywhere close to the right candidate

[00:31:54] well get out of your own head right i had to get out of my own head because recruiters typically

[00:32:00] will take a percentage of the salary and at the surface you're like that is a ton of money right

[00:32:09] but then you realize well what is my time or all right let's calculate it so if i'm going to spend

[00:32:15] a hundred hours and i can be building out at two three hundred dollars an hour it's probably cheaper

[00:32:23] to have somebody else do this right which is funny because that's why we're MSPs

[00:32:29] be about its cheaper for the customer to pay us than to pay somebody else right i'm gonna talk

[00:32:34] in about a little bit like it's almost like a hiring tax like you're saying i'm giving up all

[00:32:39] of this burden of responsibility to get somebody through the door that's remotely qualified for

[00:32:44] what's next um so you can literally i mean of the reality of this is because you know the cost

[00:32:51] upfront percentage wise this is something that you can quite honestly baking the every service offering

[00:32:56] that you have and ensure that it's never part of the just part of the overhead well and my wife

[00:33:03] knows when i'm an interview mode i'm like crazy person right because i have folders and

[00:33:08] pads and you know no i got all this stuff i got to go home a couple weeks ago me like hey just

[00:33:15] you know we hired somebody she's like what happens to the crazy folders like like this is like i

[00:33:22] had explained yeah we you know we have those so i i i i outsource the crazy folders

[00:33:28] yeah and i did and it's great and then the two employees i don't earn our building

[00:33:34] are amazing and i'm so happy you're gonna file you have on them yeah and i didn't have to do anything

[00:33:39] what to write so so um that process just curious like can you tell me a little bit about the

[00:33:46] crazy because i think it's important because i'm guessing that most people that listen to this also

[00:33:51] have some sort of crazy when it comes to hiring well i'm sure so like i would have what i would

[00:33:58] do that would be a person made part of what i'm gonna call and then i would do my best to take notes

[00:34:05] of which 80% i had no idea what the hell i wrote on the screen oh on my on my on my

[00:34:10] on my personal address of doodling yeah pretty much like i i circle certain words across

[00:34:16] other words like they say they're Azure guys and i and it turned out they're not like cross out

[00:34:20] Azure you know stuff like that we're done in that project so you're an Azure tag well no i was

[00:34:26] on the team of eight and i answered the phone or you know they get on the video call and they call it as

[00:34:32] you yeah i work on as you are okay yeah yeah yeah i work on squeal server do you know

[00:34:42] just just just little things like that so all that goes in my my paper which you could lose

[00:34:51] right right and then so it could probably be also not great or the potential of play finds

[00:34:59] the paper later hey you miss it this where i wrote the guys a knucklehead or whatever you know

[00:35:05] just no kind of no that's not really anyways yeah that's somebody else but that's good

[00:35:15] yeah it's just you you've got to like you got to figure out what works for you right uh

[00:35:20] just make a work well for those of you listening this has been an episode of MSP 1337 thanks and have a great week