From Layoffs to job transitions in the channel. Desraie Thomas and I chat about cybersecurity and how it impacts us all. It doesn't just happen at work; yet, as employees, we have been given the tools and resources we don't often see at home. The kids and elderly are usually victims who never have their stories heard. Then, we wrap things up with a new approach to delivering Governance and Risk solutions into the channel.
[00:00:04] .
[00:00:05] Welcome to MSP 1337. I'm your host, Chris Johnson, a show dedicated to cybersecurity
[00:00:13] challenges solutions, a journey together, not alone. Welcome everybody to another episode
[00:00:24] of MSP 1337. I'm joined this week by Desiree Thomas of Ascendio. Welcome to the show.
[00:00:35] Welcome to the show as well. Welcome to having me. Thank you so much. One of my favorite
[00:00:39] parts about the word Ascendio. Yes. Can you just imagine Harry Potter? Ascendio! The word
[00:00:45] for compliance. That's perfect. Yeah, I like it. I like it. And suddenly it's exactly
[00:00:50] what you want it to be because it is magic, right? I mean, one might say a lot of cybersecurity
[00:00:56] seems to fall into the land of must be magical beings and potions in order to
[00:01:00] pull this off, which I think sometimes that's true. I agree with you. So we came
[00:01:08] up with like a bajillion things to talk about today. We know that this is mental health
[00:01:13] month. We've got what's happening at Ascendio. We've got Channel Con literally like I think
[00:01:18] it's like 70 days away now, so it's like right around the corner. And the last thing
[00:01:24] or maybe the first thing is to talk about all of the layoffs that we saw and just kind
[00:01:29] of where like talking a little bit about like your career path. Like I think I met
[00:01:34] you I think it was after Passportal or like right around the end of the Passportal days
[00:01:39] right before you went to Datto. And so a lot of things have happened in your career
[00:01:44] path. And I'm going to say from an IT perspective, a very short period of time.
[00:01:50] Yeah, it's been a crazy, crazy adventure. I like look at the last 10 years of my
[00:01:55] life and I don't think that there has been there's never been another 10 years
[00:01:59] where that much change has happened in that quick period of time. I literally I
[00:02:04] look at 10 years ago, probably sitting I was a travel agent at the time and
[00:02:09] being like travel agent was fun. It was a really good job. But I also was
[00:02:13] watching the entire industry be like nose diving, nose diving very, very
[00:02:17] quickly.
[00:02:18] Kayak is out and now good luck.
[00:02:20] Yeah, exactly. What am I going to do next? And I've talked to a lot of
[00:02:25] people about this and been on a lot of different podcasts having this
[00:02:28] conversation. And I think the most interesting thing is that 90% of people
[00:02:33] I talk to will talk about getting into tech by accident or falling into it or
[00:02:37] like you just randomly had a conversation with someone that someone was
[00:02:41] like, Oh, well, do you know about technology and being from Calgary oil
[00:02:46] and gas? I never thought I get into tech. And I'm so excited working for
[00:02:50] passportal was one of the best and best decisions I ever made.
[00:02:54] It's funny you say that and the falling into it or by accident. I got
[00:02:59] a job right out of college after working at U hall because that's very
[00:03:02] glamorous in the tech space. And the job I got the first day I learned what
[00:03:07] Windows NT was and Windows 2000 at the same time. Then I was handed this
[00:03:13] orange and white card that said MSDN on it, a toll free number that said I
[00:03:18] had five incidents that I could use to call Microsoft for tech support.
[00:03:23] And back then you could call Microsoft to get tech support. So that
[00:03:28] was how I started. So very similar, like, truly just kind of like, there you
[00:03:32] go. Good luck. And also you're responsible for ordering lunch for
[00:03:36] everybody in the office. So you got this.
[00:03:39] I'm not a one up the also you got one up that one is when I did my
[00:03:44] interview was with Dan Winsley. And he was like, Are you good at
[00:03:47] speaking on stage? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm outgoing. I'm awesome. Of
[00:03:51] course, I'm good. He's like, Okay, well, you're gonna talk in stage in
[00:03:54] New York in two weeks. So me, I'd never spoken on stage, I just
[00:03:59] assumed I would be good at it. Be I didn't really understand the
[00:04:02] channel because I didn't really understand technology in the first
[00:04:04] place. So like, it took a while to even be able to like,
[00:04:07] verbalize, like what passport will dead and what we did and all of
[00:04:10] those things. And there I am on stage two weeks later, when I
[00:04:14] realized that I have made massive horrible stage fright. Welcome to
[00:04:19] anxiety. That was the one of the best experiences and anyone
[00:04:24] who watched it one of the worst the worst presentation they
[00:04:26] probably watched and or I've ever done in my life. I had
[00:04:29] flashcards and man will tease me about that I flashcards and
[00:04:32] I dropped them. Oh, yeah, it was amazing. It was fantastic.
[00:04:36] And I it was I loved it so much that I kept doing it and
[00:04:40] hopefully got better. I think
[00:04:41] well, that doesn't sound like it. Yeah, I've heard you
[00:04:44] speak. I think that you for sure have come a long ways
[00:04:46] from the flashcards. I was always certain of being able to
[00:04:51] speak in public, but I never really had to do it like you
[00:04:54] said from a stage. But I did have an interesting experience
[00:04:58] after I'd been doing it for a while that has forever changed
[00:05:01] me and I always encourage people to try it is to play
[00:05:04] PowerPoint roulette. So you get pulled a topic and you're
[00:05:08] given slides you haven't seen. And as they rotate the
[00:05:12] slides, you have to talk to the deck about the topic that
[00:05:16] you've been given. And after that, I realized that no matter
[00:05:19] how bad I might have been prepared for whatever is
[00:05:23] happening next. It's not PowerPoint. It's not
[00:05:26] PowerPoint roulette. So that took my that took my nerves
[00:05:30] away. So like I still get nervous sometimes but the
[00:05:32] actual like the anxiety and stress and like sweating and
[00:05:37] like it went away after that one thing because I'm like,
[00:05:39] there's never going to be anything worse than that
[00:05:41] because at least I know the topic that I've been asked to
[00:05:44] present on at least in the abstract. So I you win.
[00:05:49] I think I don't know if I ever want to force myself through
[00:05:53] something like that. But I also can see the value of it
[00:05:56] so much that I feel like it's like doing it over and
[00:05:59] over again, like you get the carpet pulled out from your
[00:06:01] feet. Eventually, you're like, oh, no, I know to jump
[00:06:04] when the carpets being thrown on pulled on our feet and I
[00:06:05] can stand steady.
[00:06:07] But you don't have to do it with a lot of people, right?
[00:06:09] You could just do it, like with three or four people and
[00:06:12] just do it just to see if you can do it because it's
[00:06:14] there's something to it that says, huh, I now see this
[00:06:20] through a different lens than my own. And that means
[00:06:22] that everybody that's listening, all I'm trying to do
[00:06:25] is convince them that I'm somewhat eloquent on this
[00:06:29] topic, even if I'm not so it's it's the best way to
[00:06:32] tell the largest tall tale you've ever told about
[00:06:36] something that's not real in the first place.
[00:06:38] Love it.
[00:06:39] So that kind of lends us into like the you know, we
[00:06:41] just did the whole like, you know, fake it till you
[00:06:43] make it. You know, we talked about layoffs, you
[00:06:46] went through several rounds, you're now at a
[00:06:47] stand yo before we get into the the current role
[00:06:51] and some of the things that I think are amazing
[00:06:53] that as then do is doing and just the mind shift
[00:06:56] of what's behind it, which I think really sets it
[00:06:59] apart from other players in the space. Let's talk a
[00:07:02] little bit about what we're seeing happen in the
[00:07:04] threat landscape. That's particularly, I think more
[00:07:08] relevant on the consumer side of things or personal
[00:07:11] side of things than it is work. Because as I always
[00:07:13] say, if it's happening at work, it's happening at
[00:07:16] home and if it's happening at home, it's gonna be
[00:07:17] happening at work. And you brought up one I think
[00:07:20] it'd be a great place to start. Let's talk about
[00:07:22] your experience and your what you learned with
[00:07:24] regards to pig butchering.
[00:07:27] Oh, pig butchering. It is it's a great name.
[00:07:31] Did you do you do you know what exactly it's
[00:07:33] come from?
[00:07:34] I don't know what the name comes from, but I'm
[00:07:36] very familiar with what pig butchering is,
[00:07:39] particularly when I get into things like the
[00:07:41] crypto exchanges and the ability to make a
[00:07:44] book amount of money and then have it basically
[00:07:47] all yanked out from underneath you when you go
[00:07:49] to withdraw your money from this amazing, you
[00:07:51] know, five X on your investment that turns into.
[00:07:55] But if you invest more because usually they take
[00:07:59] money at like they start out at like they'll do
[00:08:01] like a start out with like give me 10 grand.
[00:08:03] I'll show you how well the this works. It's a
[00:08:05] real portal. It's real crypto exchange in a lot
[00:08:07] of cases. Then you go, oh, well, imagine what
[00:08:11] you could do with more money. So like if you
[00:08:12] were to put like 200 or 300 or even a million
[00:08:15] dollars in your ROI in 90 days would be five X
[00:08:19] and they're like, awesome. They see the
[00:08:21] dollar show up and then they go, I need to
[00:08:24] pull some of this out. And I'm like, OK, so
[00:08:26] it's going to take about 10 days. But first
[00:08:28] you're gonna have to put another hundred
[00:08:29] thousand dollars in to cover the taxes before
[00:08:32] we can then pull any money out. So now
[00:08:34] they're at one point one million and
[00:08:37] everything goes dark.
[00:08:39] Yeah, that was like so the pig butchering part
[00:08:42] was what got me where the name came from,
[00:08:44] just because like it's so bad, but it's so
[00:08:46] good where they apparently the name came
[00:08:49] from the idea of you take little piglets
[00:08:51] and you fatten them up and then until they
[00:08:54] get really big and then you're done with
[00:08:55] them and move on and get more little pigs
[00:08:57] and do the same thing. So
[00:08:59] perfect analogy.
[00:09:00] Yeah, exactly. And then I like I don't know
[00:09:04] about you, but I've definitely engaged and
[00:09:06] received those text messages that are like,
[00:09:09] hey, Suzy, I'm just checking. We're meeting
[00:09:11] up in 20 minutes and then like, nope, sorry,
[00:09:13] wrong number. And then gone back and forth
[00:09:15] a couple of times until I get bored. I
[00:09:17] didn't realize that was actually a scam. I
[00:09:20] did not know. I didn't like I knew that
[00:09:22] eventually, like if they were going to send
[00:09:24] me a link, send me money or something along
[00:09:26] those lines. I knew like I'm smart enough
[00:09:28] on that. But I just figured it was like
[00:09:30] a mistake because I've texted people the
[00:09:31] wrong number and something dumb like that
[00:09:33] before. Totally makes sense. So I didn't
[00:09:35] realize that on a basic level, it's
[00:09:38] literally just trying to make friends
[00:09:40] with someone, which I get all of these
[00:09:42] things are smart about, but it's
[00:09:43] conversation that we need to have
[00:09:45] because I know that if prior to even
[00:09:48] watching that video that I picked up
[00:09:50] the pig butchering on with all of
[00:09:51] the security training that I have, I
[00:09:53] might not have seen this. And if I
[00:09:56] have the education and training behind
[00:09:57] me, what about everybody else? This
[00:09:59] where go the kids, old people, the
[00:10:00] other people in our lives. I know a lot
[00:10:02] of people who want to make friends. I
[00:10:03] see it on social dating to the online.
[00:10:06] They do the same thing on the online
[00:10:08] dating, the making friends groups. I am
[00:10:10] a lot of part of a lot of community
[00:10:12] where I interact with community
[00:10:14] members online. Those are strangers.
[00:10:16] Right? So those people, they build
[00:10:18] this relationship and then they start
[00:10:20] talking about how much money they're
[00:10:21] making. And then they say, Oh, I can
[00:10:24] help you. Right? Oh, no, but I'm
[00:10:26] smart enough to know they're not
[00:10:27] going to send you money. That's a
[00:10:28] bad idea. Right. Stop. Oh, but this
[00:10:32] is the system that you're using. And
[00:10:34] then it goes to the extent when I
[00:10:36] was watching this video where people
[00:10:38] will actually like to fact check
[00:10:40] things, talk to lawyers, look at
[00:10:41] businesses, talk to like, like
[00:10:45] different people, like many different
[00:10:47] people to fact check if this is a
[00:10:49] real business. And it's not. And it's
[00:10:52] completely a scam. The entire thing
[00:10:55] that the how big that is, sure, just
[00:10:59] boggled my mind. And then the
[00:11:01] reverse side of it, I always like
[00:11:03] you look at the bad guys. And we
[00:11:04] used to talk about the bad guy
[00:11:06] being some kid in the basement. But
[00:11:08] the bad guy is like it's a either
[00:11:10] the positive or the bad guys, it's
[00:11:12] big business. You're bad guys are
[00:11:13] making a lot of money. Right? So if
[00:11:15] you have no money and you've you're
[00:11:17] in a third world country and you
[00:11:19] literally can't even feed your
[00:11:20] family, why wouldn't you do
[00:11:21] something like this? Like, I get
[00:11:22] that. That makes sense.
[00:11:23] I mean, even if it's just for the
[00:11:24] health care benefits, right? Like,
[00:11:25] I mean, it's not like they it's
[00:11:27] not like they aren't working for a
[00:11:28] legitimate business. It's just what
[00:11:30] they do is, well, in our country
[00:11:33] illegal.
[00:11:34] Yeah, exactly. But then I heard I
[00:11:38] did not know this, they're
[00:11:40] actually kidnapping and holding
[00:11:41] people hostage and making them work
[00:11:43] for these scams, like gangs and
[00:11:45] like, which makes sense if you
[00:11:47] look at the legalization of drugs,
[00:11:49] and that means there's a whole
[00:11:51] bucket of money that's no longer
[00:11:52] being made by the bad guys. Well,
[00:11:54] where else are they going to make
[00:11:55] that? The size of this industry
[00:11:58] is crazy.
[00:11:59] So pig boogaturing, you know, is
[00:12:01] a unique example of what is
[00:12:03] ultimately the scenarios that play
[00:12:05] out and all the different ones,
[00:12:06] right? I mean, it goes all the
[00:12:07] way back to the Nigerian prince
[00:12:09] via fax like, if you I just
[00:12:12] need to know some bank account
[00:12:13] details. I and then when I get
[00:12:15] out of the country, then I will
[00:12:16] give you the state we're in. And
[00:12:19] you know, they transfer all the
[00:12:20] money and they do all the
[00:12:21] things and then poof, the money's
[00:12:22] gone. We haven't we haven't gotten
[00:12:25] any smarter. But I think to your
[00:12:26] point about like the education
[00:12:28] piece that you went through that
[00:12:29] a lot of organizations today,
[00:12:31] they're using the know befores
[00:12:32] and the proof points and the
[00:12:34] fill in the blank for your for
[00:12:35] your cybersecurity training,
[00:12:36] security awareness training. One
[00:12:38] of the things that I'm starting
[00:12:39] to be worried about is that
[00:12:41] we're being trained on very
[00:12:42] specific things. So like learning
[00:12:45] to see how typo squatting works
[00:12:47] or how the way the email is
[00:12:50] written or understanding that
[00:12:51] your bank would never send you
[00:12:52] this email. The reality is all I
[00:12:55] have to do is figure out how to
[00:12:56] get in your head. So I think
[00:12:58] what we're seeing shift is the
[00:12:59] more information you put online,
[00:13:01] LinkedIn, social media, all they
[00:13:03] need is something that's prompts
[00:13:06] that little idea that little
[00:13:08] nugget that says, oh, they
[00:13:09] love shopping at fill in the
[00:13:11] blank. Now all you've got to do
[00:13:13] is create a very well crafted
[00:13:15] email. Whether you speak English
[00:13:17] well or not, you got chat GPT
[00:13:19] and other tools that will do it
[00:13:20] just fine for you and put that
[00:13:22] in front of them. And so it's
[00:13:23] the things like when a company
[00:13:25] says, no, I don't want the
[00:13:26] external this came from an
[00:13:27] external source at the top of
[00:13:29] the email because that's annoying
[00:13:30] and then I have to scroll down
[00:13:31] to actually read the email.
[00:13:32] Well, no, if you don't
[00:13:34] recognize that it's from an
[00:13:35] external source out of the
[00:13:37] gate, you already have your
[00:13:39] guard down that this is going
[00:13:41] to be a legitimate email and we
[00:13:42] see it all the time. Like I got
[00:13:44] an email from so and so why
[00:13:46] is it in quarantine? Like, well
[00:13:47] obviously because it didn't come
[00:13:48] from your domain or it came
[00:13:49] from your domain, but it didn't
[00:13:51] hit the fact checks of saying it
[00:13:53] passed the integrity check.
[00:13:55] So it's a spoof. And I think
[00:13:57] that's where we I've I know I
[00:14:00] have made the mistake before
[00:14:01] I have been able to crawl it
[00:14:04] back before I had to worry
[00:14:06] about it. And I've also
[00:14:07] clicked on ones that were
[00:14:08] legit. I clicked on one for
[00:14:09] LinkedIn. It's probably been six
[00:14:11] or seven years now. It was
[00:14:13] like, hey, the first 50 people
[00:14:14] that click on this link and
[00:14:15] sign up for a demo, I'll send a
[00:14:18] free pair of Studio Beats
[00:14:19] headphones. I'm like, cool.
[00:14:23] Granted, that was five years
[00:14:24] ago, but still, like I
[00:14:26] shouldn't have done they had
[00:14:28] the scams then and afterwards
[00:14:30] I was like, I'm never going
[00:14:31] to get these headphones. I
[00:14:33] want her to know what's
[00:14:33] going to happen to me. And
[00:14:35] about two weeks later, I did
[00:14:36] get a pair of headphones in
[00:14:37] the mail. If they were real
[00:14:39] Studio Beats headphones, I'll
[00:14:41] never know for sure. They did
[00:14:42] sound a lot like them and
[00:14:44] they lasted for a very long
[00:14:45] time. So I'm not
[00:14:46] complaining. But again, it
[00:14:48] played on my emotion and what
[00:14:50] I enjoy and what I'm
[00:14:52] interested in. So like, how
[00:14:53] do you create videos that
[00:14:55] are specific to does
[00:14:56] right? Like, okay, I got
[00:14:58] this. I'm going to do some
[00:14:59] simulations to ensure that
[00:15:00] does falls victim and I
[00:15:02] can prove the point and
[00:15:03] shame you in front of the
[00:15:04] rest of the organization of
[00:15:05] why'd you click on that,
[00:15:06] which is the other problem we
[00:15:07] have to write, like even
[00:15:09] the scoring model for the
[00:15:11] courses we take your score is
[00:15:12] a lower if you don't report
[00:15:14] enough of the bad things.
[00:15:16] Well, I deleted them. I
[00:15:17] didn't click on the link.
[00:15:18] Like, why are you still
[00:15:19] marking me down for not
[00:15:21] telling you that I'm aware
[00:15:22] of what you sent me? Like
[00:15:24] there's a lot of challenges
[00:15:25] with this. So, you know,
[00:15:27] if I go back to what you
[00:15:28] said though and saying,
[00:15:29] okay, who does this impact
[00:15:30] the most? So we know this
[00:15:31] is going to impact the two
[00:15:33] categories that see this
[00:15:34] education, the least kids
[00:15:36] and old people. So we know
[00:15:37] why pig butchering exists.
[00:15:39] You're lonely and you get
[00:15:41] that profile friend and it
[00:15:43] can fall into so many
[00:15:44] different categories, right?
[00:15:44] Like I work with one that
[00:15:46] was definitely, um, he was
[00:15:49] lonely older guy and fell
[00:15:52] for it. A million dollars
[00:15:54] later. Um, can't get it
[00:15:56] back. Like the FBI is
[00:15:57] like, yep, you lost the
[00:15:58] money. Thanks for telling
[00:15:59] us it's part of an
[00:16:00] ongoing investigation.
[00:16:01] Hopefully we can get them.
[00:16:04] But you also shared one
[00:16:05] that was more of like
[00:16:06] kid type stuff and what
[00:16:08] that is, which is, I
[00:16:09] think significantly
[00:16:10] different as far as the
[00:16:12] impact on the emotional
[00:16:15] the ability to emotionally
[00:16:16] handle what has happened.
[00:16:18] So talk about that one
[00:16:20] a little bit because I
[00:16:20] think these are both
[00:16:21] problems that we have
[00:16:23] to solve for in our jobs.
[00:16:26] I, I don't even know
[00:16:28] like I grew, they're
[00:16:29] huge problems. And for
[00:16:31] me, it's just, I love
[00:16:32] to have this
[00:16:32] conversation because I
[00:16:33] think it's important
[00:16:34] conversation to have in
[00:16:35] every room. Like I think
[00:16:36] this, that every, every
[00:16:37] table should have this
[00:16:38] conversation, especially
[00:16:40] with the kids and the
[00:16:40] old people. And you
[00:16:41] should have it over and
[00:16:42] over again. Kids are just
[00:16:43] so influenced and I
[00:16:44] think that's the best
[00:16:45] thing about the
[00:16:46] organization is that
[00:16:47] they have so much
[00:16:48] going on in their lives.
[00:16:49] And I remember how
[00:16:50] stressed I was when
[00:16:51] I was a kid.
[00:16:52] And so I was the
[00:16:54] story I talk about,
[00:16:56] I was 10 years ago,
[00:16:57] right?
[00:16:58] Yeah. 10 years ago.
[00:17:01] The story I talk
[00:17:01] about is like a
[00:17:02] girlfriend of mine
[00:17:03] calls me one day and
[00:17:04] she says, so
[00:17:05] hypothetically, if,
[00:17:06] and then she's like,
[00:17:06] okay, this, this
[00:17:07] happened, her son
[00:17:09] met someone online,
[00:17:10] which I can totally
[00:17:10] see nowadays. Like
[00:17:12] you meet someone from
[00:17:13] another school,
[00:17:14] profiles, and they
[00:17:16] started really hitting
[00:17:17] it off. And they're
[00:17:17] 15 years old and
[00:17:19] maybe alienated in
[00:17:20] their own school and
[00:17:21] trying to make
[00:17:21] friends and like,
[00:17:22] whatever. So you
[00:17:22] meet someone online
[00:17:23] and they do as
[00:17:24] 15 year old kids
[00:17:25] do, and they sent
[00:17:26] pictures and those
[00:17:27] pictures were
[00:17:28] definitely not
[00:17:28] appropriate.
[00:17:30] And that instantly
[00:17:31] went where it
[00:17:32] stopped. And those
[00:17:33] were scammers that
[00:17:34] were now going to
[00:17:35] release all that
[00:17:36] information to
[00:17:37] their entire
[00:17:37] school network,
[00:17:39] life changing
[00:17:40] information. Like we
[00:17:41] see the bullying
[00:17:42] that actually happens
[00:17:43] where kids do
[00:17:44] actually commit the
[00:17:45] suicides, where
[00:17:46] these actually other
[00:17:47] kids do this to them.
[00:17:48] So this is a
[00:17:48] stranger who's saying
[00:17:49] I'm going to do
[00:17:50] this to you. And
[00:17:51] that kid's first
[00:17:52] response was to
[00:17:53] think about
[00:17:53] suicide. And
[00:17:55] luckily enough,
[00:17:55] they were close
[00:17:56] enough with their
[00:17:56] parents that they
[00:17:57] were open to have
[00:17:58] a conversation and
[00:17:59] admitted what they
[00:17:59] did. And that's
[00:18:00] when the parent
[00:18:00] called me and I
[00:18:01] said, you don't
[00:18:02] do anything. You
[00:18:03] just ignore it.
[00:18:03] And chances are
[00:18:04] it's going to go
[00:18:05] away because all
[00:18:06] they want is if
[00:18:07] you give them
[00:18:07] money, they're
[00:18:07] going to want more
[00:18:08] money and more
[00:18:08] money and more
[00:18:09] money. It's just a
[00:18:10] scam. It's a
[00:18:11] lesson to learn
[00:18:12] from. So they were
[00:18:13] really lucky to
[00:18:13] get out of it.
[00:18:15] Scott free,
[00:18:16] emotionally better
[00:18:17] off lesson learned.
[00:18:18] But if we know
[00:18:20] how many kids this
[00:18:20] affects when it's
[00:18:21] in real life and
[00:18:22] actually does happen
[00:18:23] about me, kids,
[00:18:24] if you get that
[00:18:25] kind of message
[00:18:26] and you think
[00:18:26] it's a stranger
[00:18:27] and your entire
[00:18:28] life is going to
[00:18:29] be gone. I can
[00:18:30] see why that
[00:18:30] that's why the
[00:18:31] conversation is
[00:18:32] so important.
[00:18:33] Yeah, we saw
[00:18:34] it a lot. So
[00:18:34] I spent four years
[00:18:35] in this K-12
[00:18:36] space and a lot
[00:18:37] of that has
[00:18:39] well scarred
[00:18:39] me forever. But
[00:18:41] a lot of it was
[00:18:42] tied to sex
[00:18:44] trafficking, that
[00:18:45] kind of thing,
[00:18:45] taking advantage
[00:18:46] of of minors.
[00:18:48] And the one
[00:18:49] thing that was always
[00:18:49] difficult is you
[00:18:50] can't prevent
[00:18:52] someone from getting
[00:18:53] into a car with
[00:18:54] a stranger if they
[00:18:55] do so willingly.
[00:18:56] Like I can I
[00:18:57] can tell you
[00:18:58] don't do that.
[00:18:59] You shouldn't do
[00:18:59] that, but I
[00:19:00] can't physically
[00:19:01] stop you from
[00:19:02] doing that. We
[00:19:03] had several cases
[00:19:04] where the FBI
[00:19:05] is involved and
[00:19:06] they're showing up
[00:19:06] in my office.
[00:19:07] And anytime you
[00:19:08] see law enforcement,
[00:19:09] it doesn't matter
[00:19:09] how innocent you
[00:19:10] are. The
[00:19:11] it's like when you
[00:19:11] see lights
[00:19:12] coming from behind,
[00:19:13] you're like,
[00:19:14] oh, man,
[00:19:14] they're pulling
[00:19:15] me over and
[00:19:15] then they go
[00:19:16] flying by.
[00:19:16] You're like,
[00:19:17] like it just
[00:19:18] it's just the
[00:19:20] we're programmed
[00:19:20] that way.
[00:19:21] And I think that
[00:19:23] because we're
[00:19:24] so unwilling
[00:19:25] to take time
[00:19:26] out from normal
[00:19:27] curriculum,
[00:19:28] from normal
[00:19:29] day to day
[00:19:30] things to
[00:19:30] focus on this
[00:19:31] stuff that's
[00:19:32] uncomfortable.
[00:19:33] It continues
[00:19:34] to live in the shadows.
[00:19:35] It continues to be
[00:19:36] what largely
[00:19:37] I mean,
[00:19:38] surprisingly,
[00:19:39] that you're the
[00:19:40] friend of yours
[00:19:41] was willing to talk,
[00:19:43] like getting
[00:19:44] the kids to talk.
[00:19:45] I mean,
[00:19:46] everything from,
[00:19:47] you know,
[00:19:47] using dad's
[00:19:48] credit card to
[00:19:49] hire somebody
[00:19:50] online thinking
[00:19:51] that no one
[00:19:52] will ever know.
[00:19:52] And it's like
[00:19:53] you're talking
[00:19:53] to this kid
[00:19:54] and like,
[00:19:54] but you used
[00:19:55] your dad's
[00:19:56] credit card.
[00:19:57] Like,
[00:19:57] how do you think
[00:19:58] this isn't tracked?
[00:19:59] Or like,
[00:19:59] what do you mean?
[00:20:00] My stuff that
[00:20:01] I put on the
[00:20:01] Internet's there
[00:20:02] forever.
[00:20:03] What do you mean?
[00:20:04] Snapchat's not
[00:20:05] instantly gone.
[00:20:06] And when you explain
[00:20:06] it to the kids
[00:20:07] and show them
[00:20:08] the amount of information
[00:20:09] you have on them
[00:20:10] just from their school
[00:20:12] account,
[00:20:13] they're like there.
[00:20:14] It just makes
[00:20:15] their heads explode.
[00:20:16] They don't understand
[00:20:17] how much information
[00:20:19] that's just like
[00:20:20] flowing around them
[00:20:21] that they every
[00:20:22] once in a while
[00:20:23] dip into the to the river,
[00:20:24] but it just keeps going
[00:20:25] like and it's never
[00:20:26] going to stop
[00:20:27] and anybody that wants
[00:20:28] to cue it
[00:20:29] and pull something
[00:20:30] from the past.
[00:20:31] No problem.
[00:20:32] Here it is.
[00:20:34] Same with the
[00:20:35] older group, right?
[00:20:36] Like so the younger
[00:20:37] group gets
[00:20:37] and understands
[00:20:38] and uses technology.
[00:20:39] They're native to it.
[00:20:40] They don't know
[00:20:40] how it was created
[00:20:41] and they don't care.
[00:20:42] Then the older group
[00:20:43] might have been
[00:20:44] involved in creating
[00:20:45] it in the early stages,
[00:20:46] but they have no idea
[00:20:47] how to use it
[00:20:48] and how it impacts them.
[00:20:49] They still want
[00:20:49] the physical phone book
[00:20:51] because that's easier
[00:20:52] than, you know,
[00:20:53] looking it up
[00:20:54] in like maps
[00:20:55] or something simple
[00:20:56] and like let me go
[00:20:57] get the phone book.
[00:20:58] I'm like, no,
[00:20:58] I already got the number.
[00:20:59] Like what do you mean?
[00:20:59] You already got the number.
[00:21:00] Well, I asked my friend
[00:21:01] that's on my phone,
[00:21:02] you know, AI,
[00:21:03] and I have the phone number,
[00:21:04] right?
[00:21:06] Yeah, it's a
[00:21:07] have you seen any crazy
[00:21:08] you got kids any crazies
[00:21:10] that you think
[00:21:11] happened to the old people?
[00:21:14] So old people,
[00:21:15] I love that these stories
[00:21:16] happen directly in my life.
[00:21:18] Like, yeah,
[00:21:18] I've got a huge community,
[00:21:19] but it's crazy to me
[00:21:21] because I don't feel
[00:21:22] like I know that many people
[00:21:23] to know so many people
[00:21:24] it's affected.
[00:21:25] And so I've got two stories.
[00:21:27] I had two friends of mine
[00:21:28] whose parents have lost
[00:21:30] a big chunk
[00:21:31] of their life savings
[00:21:32] and both of them
[00:21:33] got all the way to the store
[00:21:35] buying iPhone cards
[00:21:36] and giving the iPhone cards.
[00:21:39] And one person was at the bank
[00:21:41] and on the phone
[00:21:42] and was severely threatened.
[00:21:43] Like she was deadly convinced
[00:21:45] that they were following her.
[00:21:46] And both of these people gave away
[00:21:50] like big chunks
[00:21:51] of their life savings.
[00:21:52] And it was the same idea.
[00:21:53] This one, I like it doesn't
[00:21:56] it feels more like the old prince.
[00:21:58] Yeah.
[00:21:59] But it's also changing
[00:22:00] so quickly that it's going to shift anyway.
[00:22:03] So this conversation
[00:22:04] is still valid and important.
[00:22:06] But now we are talking
[00:22:08] to our old people and say, no,
[00:22:09] no one's ever going to want you
[00:22:11] to pay in an iPhone gift card.
[00:22:13] No one's going to ever
[00:22:13] ask for a gift card, like no business.
[00:22:15] And that seems like
[00:22:16] why are they asking me
[00:22:17] to walk to Best Buy
[00:22:18] to get the gift cards?
[00:22:19] Like, why can't I take
[00:22:20] an Uber or drive there?
[00:22:21] Like it's but it's still
[00:22:26] so important to have
[00:22:27] because it happens all the time.
[00:22:29] It does.
[00:22:29] It happens all the time.
[00:22:30] I've had it happen to my parents.
[00:22:32] I had it happen to my mom.
[00:22:33] Yeah, I get it.
[00:22:35] Let's shift gears a little bit.
[00:22:36] So you've you've landed
[00:22:38] another security company.
[00:22:39] You're at a Stendio,
[00:22:41] which is magic for compliance.
[00:22:45] Harry Potter magic, right?
[00:22:46] Yeah.
[00:22:48] So the first thing that came to mind
[00:22:50] when you started
[00:22:50] sharing the backstory
[00:22:51] is about where where
[00:22:53] else Stendio came from.
[00:22:54] You know, it's been 13, 12, 13 years.
[00:22:56] And in the story, like we could
[00:22:59] we could talk GRC platforms all day
[00:23:01] before I came to CompTIA.
[00:23:03] That was one of the primary
[00:23:04] things I did was evaluate.
[00:23:05] Do they actually get it?
[00:23:06] Do they understand what a risk register is?
[00:23:09] Or are they creating
[00:23:10] some cyber insurance magic
[00:23:11] to let me answer questions
[00:23:12] and then tell me how compliant
[00:23:14] with some framework I am
[00:23:15] that I don't even understand.
[00:23:17] And what you said to me
[00:23:19] that made it really stand out
[00:23:21] as being different
[00:23:22] is when you said
[00:23:23] this was built by CISOs
[00:23:25] by those that are responsible.
[00:23:28] And the reason why I bring it up
[00:23:31] after you shared that with me now
[00:23:32] is just as I was thinking about it,
[00:23:33] it's like this is the one area
[00:23:37] we're seeing play out
[00:23:38] in the media right now
[00:23:39] where the person that's taking
[00:23:41] the fall for a company,
[00:23:42] no matter how good or bad
[00:23:43] they might have been at their job.
[00:23:45] It's being tied to one person
[00:23:47] and it's often
[00:23:48] the information security
[00:23:49] officer or the CISO.
[00:23:51] So tell tell the audience,
[00:23:54] tell them why
[00:23:56] this is so important
[00:23:57] with this platform,
[00:23:58] this tool that has been built,
[00:24:00] because I think the story
[00:24:01] is far greater than the tool.
[00:24:03] Like this is there's lots of tools.
[00:24:06] Yep.
[00:24:07] Yeah, I love I love the story.
[00:24:09] That's what Paul Redding
[00:24:10] and I talked one day
[00:24:11] and he told me about the company.
[00:24:13] He told me the changes
[00:24:14] they were making
[00:24:15] and he told me
[00:24:15] about the go to market
[00:24:17] and how we're going
[00:24:17] to interact with the channel.
[00:24:18] And I was sold
[00:24:20] and then I came in
[00:24:21] and learned about the product.
[00:24:22] So I was sold before the product
[00:24:25] and especially knowing Paul,
[00:24:26] Paul is so has been around
[00:24:27] in clients forever.
[00:24:29] So or he knows
[00:24:30] he knows the industry.
[00:24:31] So when he decided to make this move,
[00:24:33] I'm like, it totally makes sense.
[00:24:35] The way Ascendio
[00:24:36] has explained to me
[00:24:37] is we've been around for 11 years
[00:24:39] and built by CISOs
[00:24:41] and the CISOs looked at the industry
[00:24:42] and were like,
[00:24:43] there is a problem.
[00:24:44] Compliance is a problem
[00:24:45] and it's going to be bigger and bigger.
[00:24:47] But security is a bigger problem.
[00:24:49] Sure.
[00:24:49] And so many compliance platforms
[00:24:52] and when you talk about compliance,
[00:24:54] people who are talking about compliance,
[00:24:55] they're looking at,
[00:24:56] OK, what do I need to do
[00:24:57] to be compliant?
[00:24:59] Whereas we went backwards
[00:25:00] because of the CISOs
[00:25:01] and they said CISO said,
[00:25:03] how do I become secure?
[00:25:05] And then where does compliance
[00:25:06] fit in there?
[00:25:07] So what are the steps
[00:25:08] I need to do to keep my business
[00:25:10] and make my business secure?
[00:25:11] So this is where Ascendio came out
[00:25:13] and they spent 11 years
[00:25:16] selling to CISOs,
[00:25:18] selling to MSSP's,
[00:25:19] but really just spending 11 years
[00:25:21] head down, creating the product.
[00:25:24] So then they decided to come to channel.
[00:25:26] And when they first came to channel,
[00:25:27] their pricing for the channel
[00:25:29] was outrageous.
[00:25:30] It doesn't fit the thought process.
[00:25:32] It just doesn't work.
[00:25:33] But the problem is,
[00:25:34] is they had this huge
[00:25:35] massive product with so much information
[00:25:37] that the value is there.
[00:25:39] Sure.
[00:25:40] But we had to put all the effort
[00:25:40] and work into it.
[00:25:41] So why don't we knock the prices down
[00:25:43] for the channel and make it
[00:25:44] so it's affordable and accessible
[00:25:46] and so that way security
[00:25:47] is for everybody.
[00:25:49] So we opened it up.
[00:25:50] We hired or so
[00:25:53] we got Ken Veron on.
[00:25:54] He's been in the channel forever.
[00:25:56] He understands he's used the platform
[00:25:58] for years and years
[00:25:59] and he understands that he used it
[00:26:01] to grow his business
[00:26:02] to a massive success.
[00:26:04] So he came on board
[00:26:05] and he looked at the channel
[00:26:06] and said, OK, MSP's,
[00:26:08] you need to have security
[00:26:10] able to access it.
[00:26:12] So then we created our partner program.
[00:26:14] We built everything for the channel
[00:26:17] and also like we need more help
[00:26:19] from everybody.
[00:26:19] So we're always looking
[00:26:20] at support from the channel
[00:26:21] to tell us how to grow further.
[00:26:22] But we're going to create
[00:26:23] like the whole Reddit forums,
[00:26:25] the whole forums where people
[00:26:26] can interact and talk about
[00:26:28] their own influences
[00:26:30] and how they work.
[00:26:31] Feedback.
[00:26:34] Yes, and then also creating
[00:26:36] the different forums,
[00:26:37] but then we're also
[00:26:39] to become a partner, it's free.
[00:26:41] Why? Because security
[00:26:42] and compliance should be
[00:26:44] accessible for everyone.
[00:26:45] So for any of our MSP's
[00:26:47] who come on,
[00:26:47] it's a free partnership.
[00:26:48] They get their own
[00:26:49] not for resale license
[00:26:50] to help their own business.
[00:26:52] And then we give them three
[00:26:54] concurring licenses
[00:26:56] to do risk assessment assessments
[00:26:58] on 300 plus different
[00:26:59] compliance frameworks.
[00:27:01] Oh, wow.
[00:27:02] That's huge.
[00:27:03] Like imagine I just have
[00:27:05] all these questions like I just like
[00:27:07] let me ask one.
[00:27:08] I have one question that maybe
[00:27:12] do you think that the space today
[00:27:15] understands the value
[00:27:17] that you're giving them at that level?
[00:27:21] I do based on we were
[00:27:24] since we made the shift,
[00:27:26] we were at, I think,
[00:27:27] less than 20 partners
[00:27:29] and we made the shift
[00:27:30] less than six weeks ago
[00:27:31] and we're almost close to 70.
[00:27:34] So I do think that
[00:27:36] the conversation,
[00:27:38] I go back to even back
[00:27:40] of the day,
[00:27:40] like starting at Passportal
[00:27:42] or starting at Datto,
[00:27:43] I would go to peer groups
[00:27:45] or different events
[00:27:46] and they would be like,
[00:27:47] we need you to bring some content
[00:27:49] and like what's valuable?
[00:27:50] We had the risk
[00:27:51] assessment checklist
[00:27:52] that Brian Weeks
[00:27:54] and I can't remember
[00:27:55] the two other companies
[00:27:56] that had put together
[00:27:57] years and years ago.
[00:27:58] The RPO, RTO?
[00:28:00] Yeah, that one.
[00:28:01] So I would show up
[00:28:02] with that risk assessment
[00:28:03] and they would be in awe over it.
[00:28:05] But it's just a sheet of paper
[00:28:07] with like some check marks
[00:28:08] and it was pretty much out of date
[00:28:10] within like three months anyways.
[00:28:13] I loved that because
[00:28:14] it was a powerful tool
[00:28:16] that was literally
[00:28:17] helping businesses be secure.
[00:28:19] We talked about how important security is.
[00:28:21] We talked about how
[00:28:23] like we talked about it from like
[00:28:24] how it's fitting the end users,
[00:28:26] not even the SMB.
[00:28:27] That's an entire different conversation.
[00:28:29] But the idea,
[00:28:31] I think it was someone
[00:28:32] that told me once that MSPs
[00:28:33] or SMBs are the only people
[00:28:36] who want to spend 80 hours at work,
[00:28:37] work an 80 hour week
[00:28:39] working for themselves
[00:28:40] so they don't have to work
[00:28:41] for someone else.
[00:28:43] That's heart, soul
[00:28:44] that's missing kids' birthdays.
[00:28:45] That's like everything
[00:28:46] and they can lose their business like this.
[00:28:48] So having a framework
[00:28:51] where you can literally walk through
[00:28:53] where it's that risk assessment
[00:28:54] that was so cool so many years ago
[00:28:56] and you can walk through your business
[00:28:57] but then also taking that tool
[00:28:59] and doing it with your clients
[00:29:00] or your prospects
[00:29:02] where you're using
[00:29:03] a compliance framework
[00:29:03] but you can also build your own.
[00:29:05] So even if you have your own standard
[00:29:07] that within your business
[00:29:08] and you say, okay, prospect, client, AB
[00:29:11] we're going to do this
[00:29:12] to figure out where you are.
[00:29:13] And then we're going to set goals
[00:29:14] about where you need to be
[00:29:16] and we're going to do a whole path
[00:29:17] of what that looks like.
[00:29:19] Now setting the goals,
[00:29:21] that's all included.
[00:29:22] That's a free partnership.
[00:29:23] It's not until you actually
[00:29:24] start working through
[00:29:25] with your clients
[00:29:26] to get to the next step
[00:29:27] that you start paying us money.
[00:29:29] So I feel that feels so good with me
[00:29:31] when it comes to the channel
[00:29:32] and knowing how the vendors
[00:29:34] go-to-market strategy
[00:29:35] has been shifting so much
[00:29:37] and there's so many vendors
[00:29:38] who come into the channel
[00:29:39] or like we're going to make the MSPs
[00:29:41] work with us the way we want them to
[00:29:43] and then it doesn't work.
[00:29:44] This is the opposite.
[00:29:45] We're looking at the MSPs,
[00:29:46] we're looking at the channel
[00:29:47] and saying, how do you think
[00:29:49] you're going to work with us best?
[00:29:51] And so far this seems to be hitting the game.
[00:29:53] And then we have a really cool
[00:29:54] go-to-market strategy
[00:29:55] that we'll be announcing at Beyond,
[00:29:57] which is going to be fun.
[00:29:57] Nice.
[00:29:58] I will be at Beyond.
[00:29:59] You do.
[00:30:00] So we have a few minutes left.
[00:30:03] One of the things that comes to mind
[00:30:04] is thinking about
[00:30:05] the things that we've at CompTIA
[00:30:07] been putting in front of MSPs
[00:30:09] and MSSP's
[00:30:10] and that is kind of to your point,
[00:30:13] looking at compliance
[00:30:14] and what are you complying with?
[00:30:15] And when we built the Trustmark,
[00:30:17] one of the things that was really important to us
[00:30:18] was to build something
[00:30:19] that was specific to solution providers.
[00:30:21] We hadn't really done that before.
[00:30:23] And the second piece of that was
[00:30:25] to do it from the lens of security first mindset
[00:30:27] or a security maturity model.
[00:30:29] So no pass fail,
[00:30:31] but the reality is obviously that
[00:30:33] those that don't commit the time to it,
[00:30:36] whether you pass fail,
[00:30:37] you still haven't done it.
[00:30:38] So there's a difference between
[00:30:39] passing and failing
[00:30:40] and not getting the Trustmark.
[00:30:42] But that being said,
[00:30:44] pulls from lots of different frameworks
[00:30:45] and it really sets the stage for solution providers.
[00:30:48] And you said a couple of things
[00:30:49] I think is really important.
[00:30:50] Solution providers need to adhere to a set of standards,
[00:30:54] whether it's standards that they've created for themselves,
[00:30:56] that I think is a heavier, steeper climb
[00:30:59] because it then implies a maturity already existing
[00:31:02] rather than taking what has been built by those
[00:31:05] who are mature and setting a standard.
[00:31:07] So I think it's really powerful
[00:31:09] what you're proposing here
[00:31:10] that setting the stage for solution providers
[00:31:12] to be successful in their own environment
[00:31:14] to then be able to take that client facing.
[00:31:17] One of the challenges that we have,
[00:31:18] and maybe this is an area for us, Thindio,
[00:31:20] to help is,
[00:31:22] MSPs are quick to say,
[00:31:22] okay, I've got the Trustmark.
[00:31:24] Now can I use this with my clients?
[00:31:27] But this wasn't built for your clients.
[00:31:28] This is different than what you should do
[00:31:30] with your clients.
[00:31:31] So the idea that we had,
[00:31:32] and we've been just kind of chewing on it
[00:31:34] and I'll just share it so anybody listening
[00:31:35] knows what the idea is,
[00:31:36] is that what about the MSPs client Trustmark profile
[00:31:42] or client standards profile?
[00:31:44] It's not the same as what they're doing.
[00:31:45] It shouldn't be.
[00:31:46] They're not the same type of entity.
[00:31:48] So we were sort of slowing down and saying,
[00:31:51] before we create a client profile for the Trustmark,
[00:31:55] we should have an MSP client facing profile
[00:31:58] because they have the Trustmark.
[00:32:00] And so those are the areas where like,
[00:32:02] that's the next step in our opinion
[00:32:03] from a brainstorming standpoint.
[00:32:05] We will be announcing,
[00:32:06] I think at ChannelCon,
[00:32:07] we'll probably be announcing the vendor profile.
[00:32:11] There's a lot and the works on that one.
[00:32:12] It'll at least be in draft mode by ChannelCon.
[00:32:17] But yeah, like it's,
[00:32:18] I assume that stuff that us Thindio is interested
[00:32:20] in helping with.
[00:32:21] And I think that's one of the things
[00:32:22] that's really different about talking to you
[00:32:25] and talking to some of the other vendors
[00:32:26] is that there's this excitement around
[00:32:29] how do we get to participate in raising the tide,
[00:32:33] particularly in the channel,
[00:32:34] particularly with solution providers
[00:32:36] because the reality is
[00:32:38] we look at this from a global perspective,
[00:32:40] this is the only group that really has the ability
[00:32:44] to impact the positive change on a global level
[00:32:47] when it comes to the cybersecurity posture
[00:32:50] for themselves and their clients.
[00:32:54] I can't speak for Ken or Paul, my bosses,
[00:32:59] but I think that we should definitely
[00:33:02] am excited for a further conversation about that
[00:33:04] because I think with having over 300 plus frameworks
[00:33:08] gives a really good opportunity to-
[00:33:10] I think that's all of them.
[00:33:11] Break down, yeah,
[00:33:12] to break down all of those frameworks
[00:33:14] into like a baseline
[00:33:16] and then just playing with it
[00:33:18] and working it together,
[00:33:19] maybe putting it out to two, three dozen MSPs
[00:33:22] and saying, does this baseline work for you?
[00:33:24] And then you literally from there have the actual baseline.
[00:33:27] I think that's an amazing idea.
[00:33:29] And I really, I know it's been a conversation
[00:33:31] that's been in the industry for quite a while
[00:33:33] that there isn't a standard for security
[00:33:36] when it comes to these conversations.
[00:33:38] So yeah, that would be, that's gonna be really fun.
[00:33:40] Pen testing too, right?
[00:33:41] So we've actually been talking to
[00:33:43] a couple of vendors on the pen testing front
[00:33:45] and one of the ideas is
[00:33:47] if I tell you as an MSP
[00:33:49] that you need to have a penetration test,
[00:33:50] it doesn't mean that you have the experience
[00:33:52] to go and do one
[00:33:54] that's properly scoped for your organization.
[00:33:56] So what we've been talking about is
[00:33:58] what if we were to enable pen testing companies
[00:34:01] to help frame a templated version
[00:34:04] of a penetration test that's built around
[00:34:07] because they went through the trust mark?
[00:34:09] To your point,
[00:34:10] that security first mindset
[00:34:12] that complies with a set of standards as opposed to,
[00:34:14] I know I have to do this one thing
[00:34:16] and if I do this one thing well,
[00:34:17] then I'll get a passing check mark
[00:34:19] and I can move on to something that I care about.
[00:34:23] Yeah, yeah, I like it, I like it a lot.
[00:34:25] Anything else you wanna share with the audience
[00:34:28] before we wrap this up?
[00:34:31] One more thing just because
[00:34:32] we kind of talked about ChannelCon
[00:34:34] and I'm super, super excited for it.
[00:34:36] There is a lot of always educational content
[00:34:40] at ChannelCon that can go several different routes.
[00:34:43] I'm participating in one of panels
[00:34:46] where we're gonna talk more details about the layoffs,
[00:34:49] what to do with the mental health conversation
[00:34:51] around the layoffs, how to support each other,
[00:34:54] how to stay positive,
[00:34:55] how to stay valuable to the industry,
[00:34:58] how to grow your brand, all of those fun things.
[00:35:01] So I hope anyone watching or comes and joins us
[00:35:03] at ChannelCon, it's gonna be
[00:35:04] a really good interesting conversation.
[00:35:06] We've probably never seen this before
[00:35:08] in our industry, right?
[00:35:09] Like we've seen layoffs, we've seen lots of layoffs.
[00:35:12] We've never seen LinkedIn explode
[00:35:15] with those in leadership positions say,
[00:35:17] hey, message me offline,
[00:35:19] we're gonna find you a place to land.
[00:35:21] Like I've never seen that in 25 years.
[00:35:23] I've never seen since the inception of LinkedIn,
[00:35:27] anybody going out publicly and saying,
[00:35:30] I know a few people that would be great
[00:35:31] for fill-in-the-blank job.
[00:35:33] Can we please have a conversation?
[00:35:34] And it's happening.
[00:35:36] I 100%, I looked at my experience
[00:35:40] being laid off and the fact that it was a really tough time,
[00:35:44] but I had for what it was an amazing experience.
[00:35:47] I had so many doors open up for me
[00:35:49] just by posting and saying,
[00:35:51] so this has happened, I need help
[00:35:53] or does anyone have any projects
[00:35:54] or how do I stay valuable?
[00:35:55] Who can I interact with?
[00:35:57] Who can I help with things?
[00:35:58] And I was really lucky for it.
[00:36:00] And if I learned through the experience
[00:36:02] that not a lot of people,
[00:36:04] not everyone has the same thought processes
[00:36:06] and not everyone is a proactive.
[00:36:08] So you don't think about those process,
[00:36:11] Canadian, eh?
[00:36:12] But so not everyone has all that.
[00:36:15] So it does, people struggle because they don't know.
[00:36:18] But if I could have said anything to my 20 year old self
[00:36:21] and anyone who does not work on networking
[00:36:24] and building a community around you,
[00:36:26] that is the most paramount.
[00:36:28] There's so many people I've talked to who laid off,
[00:36:31] who are laid off or have been laid off
[00:36:33] who can't get an interview
[00:36:36] but are interviewing left, right and center
[00:36:38] based on their network and people like handing them
[00:36:42] or being the right person at the right time.
[00:36:44] I, one of those people in Calgary,
[00:36:46] I sent out so many resumes
[00:36:47] and even though my experience level is quite high,
[00:36:50] I couldn't even get through the hiring process
[00:36:53] let alone like the very first.
[00:36:55] So I'm really lucky community and network is everything
[00:36:57] and that's why at ChannelCon
[00:36:58] the fact that we're gonna have that conversation
[00:37:00] is gonna be so powerful.
[00:37:01] Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
[00:37:02] For those of you listening,
[00:37:03] this has been an episode of MSP 1337.
[00:37:06] Thanks and have a great week.