Why ITSPs Must Lead With AI Governance

[00:00:06] Welcome to MSP 1337. I'm your host Chris Johnson, a show dedicated to cybersecurity challenges solutions, a journey together, not alone. Of MSP 1337, I'm joined again this time by Augusta of TD Cynics. Welcome to the show. Thanks Chris. I'm very excited to be back today.

[00:00:34] So this has been just around about a year ago you were on and we talked specifically about some of the things that TD Cynics was doing for the managed services space. And since then your role has changed and there's a shift. And to kind of give the audience a little bit of perspective on what I'm seeing in the industry that I think ties in nicely to what I think you want to share with us today is that

[00:00:59] there has been this huge push to get MSPs to recognize that if they're not careful in how they balance their service offering, they're going to constantly be fighting this commoditization. You know, lower the profit margins to get that competitive edge against their neighbor purely focused on cost of services sold. And the reality is our consumer base is becoming smarter.

[00:01:28] They're definitely more educated. They're asking questions about things like, you know, risk around AI or the potential for data loss in certain tools. They're seeing the bad things happening around them. We all witnessed some of that stuff, you know, was it last week with Enable and the challenges that they were facing? And, you know, when is it going to stop? Well, it's not. And it's, you know, it's just rotate logos, right?

[00:01:53] We're going to see this constantly and how the community that is providing these consultative services is where I think we're seeing that shift where we no longer need to worry about how well we can position a specific laptop brand or otherwise. But it's going to be more about how do we position the enablement for the clients to be, you know, efficient and productive.

[00:02:17] And, you know, what I hate saying this, but like cybersecurity at the end of the day is the buzzword we created to categorize more products and services. And unfortunately, in the managed services space, we spent years before we started realizing that our clients are assuming cybersecurity is baked in even when there is no cybersecurity baked in at all because we wear the hat of IT and we do IT stuff.

[00:02:41] So with that, you know, your new role director of MSP sales and the efforts that TD Cinex is making to provide services that, you know, the MSP channel is really looking for that to a degree, the consulting services to the MSP that now needs to be consulting to their clients. How did this shift happen for one?

[00:03:04] Because I think like when we talked last year, you had a lot more diversity and sort of your role per se, maybe the diversity is still there. But like if we looked at it on paper, it was like this is a lot of different things. And now I think you very much narrowed the scope. What was that? How did that come about? And maybe why is a little bit important to the audience, because I think it shapes where we've been as an industry and kind of where we're seeing it going forward. Sure. So I will say I have a personal answer for that.

[00:03:34] And then I have like the corporate answer of our go to market strategy and intention around supporting MSP. So I'm going to give you always better. I'm going to give you the personal first. The personal was and I have had a lot of individuals say this to me throughout my career is I should have been in sales a long time ago. So so the shift to coming over, you know, when we spoke last year, I was in charge of our go to market strategy, which was the advocation for us to ensure that we have tools and processes to support the growth and disruptive technologies for all of our partners.

[00:04:03] And now I'm in sales, which means my team's the front line of defense. Where are the people going out and actually tactically having those conversations? So that's the personal answer. It's been a lot of fun. And I will say that getting to work directly with MSPs day in, day out. It's a very collective, you know, the group of MSPs, everybody that I meet, they're very collaborative. They're very friendly. I almost want to say they're a little rowdy sometimes. So it's been a fun transition.

[00:04:28] But the corporate answer is that we've always supported MSPs and we've always done a really great job at all the things that we have available, whether that's, you know, our digital tools, services, enablement programs are definitely our vendor stack and availability to support MSPs. But we recognize as a company of how much they're growing and how much it's accelerating. And so what we decided as a company was to go in and we were going to quadruple the investment.

[00:04:57] We were going to put more resources behind supporting this community, just as you said, that we can ensure that we're giving them a more consultative experience than it being commoditized, than it being just them having the ability to procure whatever tools or software that they need from us. So with that, what we have done is we have now, we have now 60 plus representatives that fall within the MSP sales organization,

[00:05:24] which the intention with that was to delineate how many MSPs that they tactically support day in and day out, which gives them more bandwidth and autonomy to have those strategic discussions. So when we're talking to these MSPs and they're saying, hey, we realize that some of the services that we offer now are becoming automated through the introduction to AI with some of the software we use or vendors we use. We want to take that time and bandwidth and upskill in the next thing that we can put into our service delivery stack.

[00:05:53] Our team is trained on those conversations. They're going to help them position new technologies and learn how to grow. Or if a partner comes to us and, you know, we're talking about cybersecurity here and then they say, you know, we want to ensure that we're going into this new vertical. Then we're getting opportunities that we are compliant that our team can come in and say, OK, well, to remain compliant within that industry, we have experts on hand and guide that discussion.

[00:06:21] So it really is more tactical and it allows us to have deeper relationships, better trust and a better experience for MSPs that are engaging with TDCinex. You know, it makes me think about a couple of things with regards to that entire model. One of them is and you're probably seeing this to this shift or the change that is happening around the tech stack,

[00:06:45] the core tools that a lot of MSPs use that because of what AI has enabled, even since we talked a year ago, we listened to MSPs talk about how they've removed entire product portfolios from what they're using internally to both manage their own, you know, own organization and that of which they're using to even manage some of the client stuff where, you know, they built the vibe or however they built it out.

[00:07:14] They've got an agent now that does it or they've got multiple agents that now handle frontline ticketing or fill in the blank. You know, we're seeing a shift in, you know, vendors are having to make some pretty major adjustments. It's no longer talking specifically about who are our core PSAs or RMM tools when you've got MSPs that are like, we decided to swap it out with the one we built in-house.

[00:07:37] And I think that goes kind of to the second part of what you were saying is that doesn't necessarily make this a good transition for the MSP from a risk standpoint over time. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Just because you lowered your costs significantly on what you're spending money on today doesn't mean you're not setting yourself up for a catastrophic,

[00:07:59] you know, payout that was for, you know, recovery of services as opposed to, you know, the shareholder stock spiked up in a good way. So what are you seeing sort of in that regard? Because I would imagine you're getting a lot of conversation around, you know, we need fill in the blank that they didn't ask for even three to six months ago. You know, we're definitely having conversations where they've automated and this is where it gets really unique for my partners.

[00:08:29] So the way that we segment MSPs for the MSP sales division, because almost every partner, I think the last time that we spoke, I said this, if you don't have an MSP practice, it's survivor die at this point. And that everybody has to have that as an armor extension of their business. Now, with that being said, the MSPs that sit within my group, the way that we're classifying them is 70% of everything that they are doing is aligned to traditional managed services. So that's help desk and IT support.

[00:08:59] That's, you know, client device monitoring. That's the cybersecurity stack. So it really is what we consider the pure play. So what's happening right now is, yes, they are investing in automation and tools that are used to be just daily tasks for some of their technical support. But we're seeing kind of a reverse shift happen from them from their go to market standpoint, where now they have more autonomy themselves to go into their end clients and win bigger opportunities on the hardware side.

[00:09:27] So it's kind of a unique place because you're talking about there is risk that's associated to it. But at the same time, there is immediate opportunity because we're seeing where there might have been a large enterprise bar who sold out the hardware to an end client. And then the MSP came in and was just doing the facilitation and management of that environment. Now we're having those MSPs. Well, they're having such a positive experience with their end users because they have automated processes.

[00:09:54] They're giving detailed reportage on the IT expenditure, license usage, all of this stuff that the end customer saying, well, since you're already doing all of this great work, can we also procure some more hardware and product from you? And so we're seeing a different shift on my side. We're seeing the partners actually take advantage of that bandwidth and go and do some traditional resale. Well, I mean, what you just said is interesting. You know, I had a friend reach out not too long ago and he's like, hey, my son's going back to school. Can you recommend a laptop?

[00:10:24] I'm like, it's 2026. Like, how hard is it to find based on price and like, you know, go for broke on the features that you want? Because there's probably a device that's either, you know, depending on your price range from a refurbished machine that's been fully recertified to a brand new machine varying in prices from $300 to $3,000. And they probably both function very similarly for how we use our devices today.

[00:10:50] It's not like we're getting like, oh, wow, this one's got, you know, extra pixels and this one's got much larger. Anyways, the point being is that it took me five minutes because of what I know to find something that was in their price range that they were like over the moon for. But that's because I, it was an easy one. Like, this is a one-off. This is, you know, a kid going to school. But I think about when I had my MSP and I think maybe to the point you were making is like,

[00:11:15] as they compressed the needs for eyes on glass, if you will, for all of those different things, help desk, stock services that are now being, in a lot of cases, either automated or outsourced for very niche vendor services that do those, you know, things that have freed up bandwidth. You know, a good proposal with the right equipment and services included, I mean, that's where margins used to live.

[00:11:44] I think margins have always still been there. It's just that MSPs haven't had time to properly quote those things and didn't have the tools that were streamlined enough to talk to each other at a pace that didn't make it tedious. And literally, like, yeah, I love it when someone says, you know, I would love to do fill in the blank. And they're like, I have to get this proposal done. Like, why is the proposal going to take you a long time to do?

[00:12:11] Like, and then you start asking questions like, is it because of what we have from an infrastructure standpoint and all of that? Or is it tied more to the MSP's maturity and the inability to have streamlined processes when those questions come up? Like, hey, we need a proposal. Like, oh, they want Lenovo. We don't sell Lenovo. Like, how do we get, we got to quick become a partner and do all these things. It's like, those are not the problems that we have anymore.

[00:12:35] No, and that's the brilliance of why we ended up building out this division to be even more deep than it already was. We're talking about specific proposals that actually reminded me where we have a customer currently that came to us and they had landed an end user that wanted to do a full IT infrastructure refresh. And normally they would just do the services and they would have been brought in by a traditional bar to facilitate the back end and any residual support that was needed.

[00:13:04] But because of our team, our rep was like, actually, I think I can help you build out the proposal and actually put all the hardware up front. And then we can help you cost out all the services that you're going to tie in on the back end. And we ended up doing it for them at this point because the reps have the bandwidth. We aligned and we looked at different manufacturers. We compared the devices for them. We ended up selecting one. We went, we deal regged the opportunity for them, got the pricing and structuring that they needed.

[00:13:33] We're actually in the stage now of where we're doing a trial with the client, the end user, to see if they like the equipment and the experience that they're going to provide before they do the big buy. So that's the intention is I know a lot of times when we're talking about MSP and you said it just now, we want to operationalize their experience as much as possible. So from a transaction standpoint, from a consolidation of all of their software and their usage, they want a single pane of glass. We realize that.

[00:14:02] And our partners are leading the way out of every reseller organization that we service in TD Cinex on digital tool utilization. But at the same time, these partners are way more mature than they were two, three years ago. And now they have bandwidth, they have maturity, and they have a little bit of rapport and trust built within the community. So we're seeing these bigger opportunities start coming to the table for them.

[00:14:26] It sounds like the white glove by bringing in resources like what you offer is giving the client experience that white glove treatment that makes them feel like the MSP is really going out of their way to make them feel good about their investment. Because we don't have the challenges that we did five plus years ago when you bought equipment. You're like, man, I hope this lasts for two years. Now we're buying equipment in that three to five years. And they're like, well, do I really need to replace this?

[00:14:56] Most of the stuff I'm doing is in the cloud. I could probably get away with a Chromebook. And we're even seeing that space change too, right? Like, I remember when Chromebooks first came out and being like, wow, I mean, it does all the things, but it's kind of limited to how it interacts with things. It's all in the cloud. And today you can buy a Chromebook that does the same thing it did 10 years ago. But instead of spending $399, it costs $2,500. And you're like, well, I must be missing something because that is a far cry from where we were.

[00:15:25] And then you realize, like, people still get excited when they get that new shiny device and they want to show it up just like they do a car. No one tries to show off a Yaris. I'm just saying, like, that might be a car you could buy to commute and cheaper, but, like, people don't show them off. Well, fun fact, Toyota Yaris was my first car. Well, actually, technically my second car. My first car was a 1999 T-Top Camaro. And my parents realized really quick that that was a mistake.

[00:15:54] And then they gave me the Yaris. So it holds up. That's a big difference too. That's a big difference. So you were really proud of the first one. How did it go with the second one? The second one got better gas mileage. And, you know, I grew up in a military household, which means that I had to pay for my gas. So I ended up being very appreciative for my reliable car at that point. So, yeah. But on the point of the tech, you're right. I mean, I actually myself just received a new laptop.

[00:16:23] And I fought tooth and nail about it because the device I had previously, I had for almost five years, which was unheard of. Because when I first started in tech almost 10 years ago, every two years you're getting a new laptop. That was kind of the refresh cycle and expectation. That was a safety net. Two years safely we're replacing before something goes wrong. And then, you know, the sky is falling. And then I got a message from IT a few days, actually two weeks ago. And they were like, hey, we're upgrading your device.

[00:16:53] And I freaked out a little bit. I was like, well, it has to have these specs. This is what I have right now. This is why. This is the amount of data analytics I do. Can it? Does it have that capacity? And throughout all that, whenever they actually format and transferred over everything, because everything was in the cloud, it took less than 30 minutes. It was the quickest, most seamless experience I'd ever have. And that's the same thing that our partners are experiencing now. Yeah. The anxious drama that used to go with migration. Like, I remember.

[00:17:22] So I just did mine. I'm on. I've just finished the first year on my new laptop. And it was funny, because after having the one I had for three years, like, I was getting ready to do the transition. I'm writing down the names of all the applications that I had on the machine. I didn't want to, like, have to do this twice, right? Like, I didn't want to, like, go to use an app and it's not there. And to your point, I think it did take, like, somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes. And I was floored.

[00:17:47] Like, even doing data transfer on the things that I needed to back up to an external drive that were not part of, were not within scope for IT to do. I literally plugged it in, dragged the folder. I think it was, like, it was video content. I think it was, like, right around a terabyte of data. I walked in the house, poured a cup of coffee, came back out, and it was done transferring. And I was like, this would have been, like, six days of data transfer even five, six years ago. So, yeah, that's exciting.

[00:18:14] Shifting gears, I wanted to touch on this has been a huge topic, and it keeps coming up, and it's becoming more prevalent. And going back to what we were talking about at the beginning of, like, not becoming commoditized. And we're seeing some commoditization in the way MSPs are currently approaching how they're delivering, like, AI to their customers. They're like, you hear this a lot. Yeah, we help them manage their co-pilot licenses. Or we help them, you know, stand up a few things. Very little.

[00:18:45] I mean, it's becoming more and more of getting into the consulting side of this. But one of the things that keeps cropping up now and an opportunity where MSPs have huge, there's really, it's really wild, wild west, is helping with AI governance. Helping them understand where data goes. What are you seeing in that regard? I would imagine that this is a big question that gets asked, like, how do you scope a proposal when the eight or ten laptops, or however many it might be, now come with things like AI built into the machine?

[00:19:14] It's not just a thing they go and connect to in the cloud. Yeah. So, governance comes up quite a bit. But, you know, at this point, I feel like AI is a commoditized buzzword. And eventually we'll get to a point where people will stop saying, hey, we're AI-led or we're AI-powered because everything will have the expectation that AI will be built in. And I have one partner that comes to mind. I was actually sitting next to them at a conference.

[00:19:37] And, you know, a vendor gets on stage and they're speaking about how they're using AI to bolster their software and to make it better, make it more powerful. And the customer leans over to me and is like, this is all great and dandy, but how is this going to relate back to the governance requirements for the types of part of the end users that I'm servicing? And I just looked at them and laughed because that is the conversation that's happening now. And I always like to say that we're having a change in technology.

[00:20:03] I don't think we talked about this last time, but I talk a lot at conferences where I introduce what we call the intelligence super cycle, which is just the super cycle that we're entering right now where AI is transforming every single layer of the technology stack. And even though that's happening, the basics are still applicable. So when cybersecurity, for instance, came on the scene, I think I talked about this on the last podcast, you can do all the right things proactively.

[00:20:30] So you can put identity in place, you can put detection in place, but you have to still teach your end user as a frontline of defense on how to be able to identify some of the basic threat vectors. That methodology is applicable with AI as well. You can give your end user a copilot license. You can give them an agent to do some type of function.

[00:20:51] You can give them an AI powered PC, but they still need to understand prompt engineering and what is considered sensitive information in that which chat bot that you're using is going to take that and then it becomes their proprietary data. So for me, it's always education. It's always going back to the basics, regardless of what the tech stack is. And so when we're talking to our partners about AI and compliance, it's like, well, what education are you doing with your end user on how AI is consumed?

[00:21:21] How whoever the software provider that you're using is actually taking whatever's input into it and then continuing to build out their engine. That's like the leading conversation. The second conversation we're having, and since this is, you know, we lean a little cybersecurity heavy over here, is shadow AI.

[00:21:39] So our MSSPs, when it comes to compliance now, are starting to reevaluate their vendor stacks to remain compliant to ensure that those vendors have some type of functionality that showcases where shadow AI is happening. And that's something that's becoming a differentiator within the vendor community and where we're starting to see a transfer of skill sets. Yeah, shadow AI is a really interesting one. And not just shadow AI, but like identity of when you use AI, like do you want your data stored?

[00:22:09] So I read this article just recently and it was talking about if this isn't like for internal corporate modeling or growth or building, you might not want to be logged in to your corporate account because you have questions. And the thing that made me laugh because it immediately took me to shadow AI is like going to like any of the public facing ones and type a search request in.

[00:22:36] If you're not logged in and you don't have any identity there, probably not a big deal. But as soon as you log into account, personal or otherwise, that data just got recorded, indexed and tracked. And so it's an interesting paradigm shift from don't use anything that's not paid for or don't use anything that's not approved, which obviously approved is important. But like having those conversations about it doesn't necessarily matter which one you're using.

[00:23:01] Do you understand what happens based on the one you do, what it does with your data? And I think that's one of the pieces that's like, oh, well, if it's the one we're paying for, it's no big deal. But don't use a free one because we know that's just going to be bad. It's like, well, depending on what you're putting into it, we're not having that conversation. Not as much anyways. Yes. And that's why I always say it comes back to basics.

[00:23:24] If you're going to have a client that has some type of AI, especially chatbot or agent that they're consistently communicating with, they need to be educated on what's appropriate when and where and how. And that's the same conversation of you have a client who has a workforce application and they're getting phishing attempts in it. You need to be able to identify when it's happening, where and how. So it's a different technology, a different position.

[00:23:52] But at the end of the day, the basics are what drives success. Yeah, you'd think it's surprising how many things I've seen getting built now by MSPs for their clients that are being successful. And the questions that are going through my head is, if I was a client, I'd want to ask the question like, you built this tool, like, how is it secured? How is it being managed? Like, what did you build it with? Like, is there support? What's the release cycle on it?

[00:24:17] And, you know, I've noticed with a lot of them, it's like, well, we built it and it works. Like, it's a direct correlation to built, done, used, not planning for the future. And I think it's partially tied to the fact that we see AI differently. We think about how people build applications and the development life cycles that those go through. And then we start talking about using FOD or OpenAI or fill in the blank.

[00:24:45] And all of a sudden, we're going, well, we built it and it looks really good and it works the way we wanted it to. So it must be ready for primetime. Yes. Are you seeing that? Like, are they asking for help on those things? Or is it more of like, that's the area that we still haven't gotten to yet? I think that's the area we still haven't gotten to yet. For instance, when you're talking about some of the platforms that are prevalent, I'm a big fan of Cowork, for instance.

[00:25:10] And I use Cowork to build functions and agents and processes all the time that make my job streamlined. But when it comes to, hey, it's done and I'm using it, I really, I don't personally go back and ensure that everything's secure. Because my intention as the end client myself is that because it is on the device in which I know we have security applied, that it should be okay. Now, when it's the reseller building it and then pushing it down, that does raise the question.

[00:25:37] But I don't think that we're there yet because we still have a huge lag in between agentic AI and production and then actually being deployed as a tool or agent application downstream to the end user. I think that I had read a stat not too long ago where it said that still all of the agents that are trying to be built to actually be utilized for specific functions, 90% of them are still in production.

[00:26:02] I think once we finally see a shift of those things going live, that's going to start to become a concern that comes up more regularly. I agree. I want to touch on one more time because you said it. I actually haven't heard it said before. You called it the intelligence super cycle. I kind of look back at the cycles that we've had in the past. I remember, I think it was Rex Frank, who's over at PAC State. He's on their leadership team.

[00:26:29] I was at an ASCII event and he was talking about how he was potentially going to retire. And then he looked at this opportunity that is how we shape the future as this, what you just called the intelligence super cycle, is coming into play. And it is transforming in a way that's unprecedented.

[00:26:50] I remember we had the, I forget, was it Moore's law when we look at like CPUs and the every time a new CPU chipset would come out, it was the multiplier of how much better performance we got out of that. And then as we went into the early 2020s, we saw that those multipliers stopped having, the loss stopped applying like it had in the past.

[00:27:15] And then we get to the point where our laptops are powerful enough to run the large language models that used to be reserved for data center type activity. And we saw this massive transformation almost overnight, good, bad or otherwise, where we were able to do things that we just couldn't do with human eyes, right? Like we all now can do TLDR or the Cliff Notes version of just about anything that we want to read.

[00:27:44] And AI does that almost perfectly every single time. If you feed it a document and you say, give me the three things that I need to know from this, it's pretty accurate. And it's been accurate almost out of the gate for those little things. And you look at that through the lens of like, how much time did this save an individual who needed to consume that report and at least be able to go to a board meeting and give the business version of the tactical report that just didn't exist five years ago? So I think this is great.

[00:28:13] I mean, I think this is super exciting time to be involved. I think that organizations like TD Cenex and what you're doing, I think we're just getting into the tip of the iceberg, right? Like we need more of this. Like there's like no matter how fast TD Cenex scales this program that you offer, we're still going to be behind the volume of ITSPs around the world that need services like this because they, in order to scale. Absolutely. So I'm really passionate about the intelligence super cycle.

[00:28:41] I haven't probably talked about it in a little while just because it was something that we really leaned into last year when we said we restructured our portfolio and how we market it.

[00:28:51] And it was the catalyst behind it because the intention of us talking about this super cycle introduction was that no matter where you're at, whether you're a traditional hardware bar, if you're an MSP, if you're a niche, let's say components and solutions customer in our global computing division, AI is going to impact your business on how your partners consume,

[00:29:16] on how your partners actually work or what is needed in their environments now. And we haven't had one of these in a really long time. So the last time I think we had the inner, because we have hype cycles all the time. Major problem comes out in tech. There's a knee jerk reaction. A bunch of products get pushed out to solve that problem. Few go to maturity. The few that go to maturity end up being the winners. And then it's pretty much commoditized from there on out.

[00:29:40] Now, the last time we had an antenna super cycle was actually the early 2000s, which was the digital technology super cycle, which aligned to the accessibility to data. That was, you know, you got the Internet. You have connectivity. You can work anywhere in the world. I mean, your access was pretty much unlimited instead of you having to be hardlined in an office. And that data center had to be in that office and everything was contained in that one place. It made you more mobile. It made you more agile.

[00:30:10] And what happened is over 20 years, we just have enormous amounts of access to data now. And that's what really fueled the growth, in my opinion, of AI is, OK, what do you do when you have a ton of proprietary data? Well, you start doing pattern correlation and predictive outcomes. And you take all of this historical experience and inject it into an AI model. And as you said, you can drop a document in.

[00:30:35] I use the summarize button in my co-pilot all the time when I get an email thread that's, you know, 20 emails long. Give me the top three and it's going to be accurate every time. So I think that, you know, AI has been around. We all know it's been around. But the level of accuracy that we're at now is really what's bolstering the intelligence super cycle and allowing us to do more complicated tasks quicker. I agree. And with that, we know Skynet's coming.

[00:31:03] I think I asked you this last year. I asked you this last year. Is there a book? I won't say still reading because that would be weird. But is there a book that you're reading now that our audience you think might be interested in reading? It can be fiction, nonfiction. It does not have to be related to this industry at all. You did not ask me that question last year.

[00:31:23] But there is a book that I'm actually a series that I'm reading right now that for any of my video game nerds like myself are going to love, which is Dungeon Crawler Carl. Oh, my word. Do you know what that is? Yes. I bought my nephew that for his birthday last year. I bought the first one for him. Yes. So I have been getting into that recently. I'm a huge fiction person. I've read many, many, you know, series.

[00:31:52] I've read all of the Game of Thrones. I've read Lord of the Rings and Narnia growing up. So this being sci-fi-esque, it's a lot of fun. But I really enjoy the aspect of, you know, Carl is injected into a video game. And whenever he unlocks a new achievement, it announces it. He has his own screen and panel. So I've played a lot of first-person role-playing games, and it's really cool to kind of read it as a sci-fi post-apocalyptic novel and series.

[00:32:22] So that's my work. Very, very cool. I think this might be the third time that that series has come up on this show as the book of choice. That's amazing. Well, I say that you have to be a nerd to work in tech. And I proudly wear that badge. There you go. And it's a perfect series for all of my fellow tech nerds out there. Well, there you have it. For those of you listening, this has been an episode of MSP 1337. Thanks, and have a great week.