Brandi Bonds | Maximizing Your MSP's Value: Secrets from a Fractional CFO

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, MSPs! Are you concerned about how your money is flowing? Are you unsure on how to use it and make your business grow?

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then this week's episode for you.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everyone! Welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Brian Doyle as always, and I'm glad to have you all here today.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really excited about our special guest today.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: With me, I have Brandi Bonds, the Managing Partner of Next Level Now,

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and she's going to talk to you a little bit about Fractional CFO services,

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and things that MSPs can do to get a better handle on their money.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We all care about our money, do we not?

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So, Brandi, welcome! Thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me, Brian. I'm really glad to be here,

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and really excited to be able to share how we can help

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and what all IT companies should be focusing on to make more money.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So, Brandi, I love to kick things off with, you know,

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you're sharing a little bit about your background

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and how you found yourself into the world of MSP.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll dive in to how you can make folks a little bit more money.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely!

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I've been in the industry now for about 16 years,

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: just landed into it, found a job working for an outsourced IT company

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: as their controller, and then into their CFO.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Did that for a little bit, and then join next level,

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: about 10 years ago, it'll be 10 years at the end of this year,

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's been a niche of hours for the last,

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, 10 years. So we've just been plugging along

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: grown with the industry, working in the various technologies

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and being able to help businesses grow and improve value

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and sell or acquire.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know why I don't retain years.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is definitely a hot topic out in the marketplace today,

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the acquisitions and the entry of the PE firms

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: really into the equation, you know, that they did not have a big place here,

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, even just four or five years ago, maybe six,

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but, you know, it's really become something,

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think business owners are becoming more conscious about the exit as well.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to talk a little bit about that.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can kick off there, you know,

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: talk a little bit about, you know, what you're seeing in the world of M&A

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and, you know, how a service like yours can potentially support a customer

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: who's, you know, I think we talked about this as we were doing our pre-interview.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, most of us were technical founders.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We weren't folks that were striving to be in business,

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and all of a sudden we found ourselves in charge of a lot more than we thought we were going to be.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't think that journey is unique, certainly not to me.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard it so many times on this podcast.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe before we get into acquisition,

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: just talk a little bit about, you know,

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: how can you help that person who only knows what they know?

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the best thing to do is to be for you go out to market,

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: talk to someone that understands the business, right?

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: In a way that will allow you to maximize the value, right?

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially if you're looking to sell.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Because the reality is the way your financial system is laid out,

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: the way you record your transactions can value you greater or devalue you.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people don't understand that when they first go in

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you are on a cruel versus cash basis, for example,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and don't know the difference that can, that dingier right off the bat.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So really understanding how to present your financials in the right light

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and be able to tell the financial story and journey about where you've been

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and where you're going can help you improve that multiplier

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: on the other side of that.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And we go in and really focus around education

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because you don't want to sell your business for less than what it's worth.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially if you've worked really hard and you know that you can get money out of the business.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You know that there's more there.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want someone to discredit you just because they perceive you not to have the knowledge.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's amazing.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I always go back to, you can only sell it once.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So you do have to maximize that opportunity when you're on the exit.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But that structuring of the books is real.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when we ran our MSP and I'll throw some shade at myself here,

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: we had a merger event when back in 2007, right before the housing crisis.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And we moved in, we merged in with a data center concern

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and the four of us remained partners and we had a financial backer as well.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And the things I learned working with a proper CFO that I did not know

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: when I was running my business, even though our books weren't bad.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was money left on the table as a result of what we didn't know.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's something that unfortunately most MSP owners until they get into a certain

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: size or scale where they can bring that resource in directly.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They're really operating at a level where they don't know and they're trusting just their bankers and the people

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: that are really looking to make money off of them too.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can share with some of the biggest pain points you see when you start an engagement with a customer.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And if that may be resonate with some of the people that were listening to to say, I might need some help.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of times people do think their bankers are there to help them.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They are but not to advocate always for them, right?

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's different.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: That's different.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll push that aside by presentation and how you're classifying your expenses as it compares to your revenue.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Key, key thing.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Making sure you have a cost-to-good sold segment in your books which sometimes people know what that is.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it people don't.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Making sure that your books are set up on a cruel basis versus cash basis to really tell the story about how

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you are running your business, not just how much money do you have in your business as well as the, I'm going to say presentation presentation presentation.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: The worst thing you can do is just print data out and hand it over.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You want your data to be presented in a way that tells the story and in a way that is not just so much detail that people get bogged down in it but tells the story you want to sell.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Every business is unique and different and you want to be able to highlight why you're better or different than others.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can use the financial data to do that.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But those are, I would say, the key things that they want to focus on and you don't need a full time resource to do that.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You need someone that can get in there and just do it.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It does it all day.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean for most of us that were you know early stage MSPs a full time resource would probably spend a lot of time twiddling their thumbs but getting accurate financials out.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And looking at ways to better value yourself.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's all about the word even at the end of the day when especially with these PEP firms coming in right so we need to make sure that we're maximizing the way our books are structured so we're showing the right even it too because.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people short cut that number inadvertently through the way there's structuring things like S. G and A and other items.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, in ad backs right if you're a small business owner and you have been running your business in connection with your life.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And and that happens up to 10, 15 million dollar businesses where they just oh I'll pay for my car insurance and because I use my car for business.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those can be add backs to two year ebit us so that you can promote a higher even up and that is the goal the key is you want to get to that million plus once you hit the 2 million you multiply goes up so you really want to be focused on that.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know it's funny it's talking about those addbacks because I think you know owners are trained you know run what you can legally through the business and you do forget about those and they could be you know again if you've got two or three partners and everybody.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody's running their car through and all of a sudden you start looking at that you know that could be a hundred thousand dollars and in cash at the end and you know.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't sound like well, it's 10 grand for my car for the year whatever your number might be but yeah it's amazing how that'll come back.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know some other things that I think people struggle with a little bit that I hear and I'm sure you've got to solve for is you know working their business and how they are going about just tracking the activities that people do we were talking a little bit about the concept of billing and tracking time and maybe some things that they could do to be a little bit.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's simply put.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely use a PSA system any halo connect wise the top two we're seeing and in work with but any of them and in the key premises to track your time in real time if you are a time in materials.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Bill are or need to track utilization the other thing is understand what utilization is right utilization and realization because that's the top issue a lot of times what we see are a lot of over staffing.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And you may be sending out the bills every month and getting revenue in but a lot of times we're seeing a lot of MSPs have too many people because they don't track productivity or utilization and they don't even know what that means.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my team is utilized I've gone into companies where we've seen 36 and a half percent utilization which is astounding.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And we've been able to get them up to 69% just by tracking time and setting an expectation we did have to make cuts but it matters if you want to be profitable.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's you know, but that's also a reality right when you talk about you know you talked about an increasing value through ad backs another place you can increase value is through right sizing your organization.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're sitting there at 39% you definitely have heads that are walking around doing nothing right got to maximize that.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know and conversely if you're seeing you know we when you run into those issues where you start seeing people get to that 70 to 80% utilization actually more the 80 you know 85% sometimes that could be too much also because you lead to somebody being.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: A bit disorganized you know there is no holy grail of 100% utilization I think most MSPs would agree with that but there is you know some part where you want to make sure that utilization doesn't to track for quality to right.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: 100% and there is a way that we developed a calculator that we share with we do it when we do assessments and share with all of our clients to share what their organizations utilization sweet spot is.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it captures how many hours you expect your team to work and takes out all of that other time training time.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Collaboration time meeting time pto time because that can't be considered in your utilization so you want to back that out together true utilization number that makes sense and then measure team to that not just to what the industry says it should be.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad you brought that up because I think when people you know strive for those high utilization numbers they forget that those activities have to be accounted for as well.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when somebody is not fully utilized it could be.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And that they're taking those things but it can also point out other flaws within a business operation as well like maybe a little too many meetings you know meetings I could have been email and and that's why some of your utilization is going down.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And those are things that I think the classic young upstart technology leader they don't have a handle know that and they need guidance and you know it's great that you're out there supplying some of that.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah yeah it's the first thing we look at because.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You have two things in an MSP three really what you're billing.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: What your employees are in the technologies that you use to support your service those are the three largest expenses so that's where we tend to focus first.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome and you know we were talking a little bit about the concept also you know while we do talk about utilization and that being important.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: You know we were talking a little bit about the concept of fixed fee versus hourly and how to generate your revenue maybe you can share some of your thoughts on that.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so if you can put in contracts that are a fixed fee which is scary for a lot of folks making that shift from time and materials or hourly billing.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can make that shift to a fixed fee you have to understand your business number one you need to know what it takes to deliver service so getting a handle of your.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: How your employees are operating and in what their strengths and weaknesses are helps with that.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But getting that fixed fee billing cycle out there really improves your value because it's typically you can put it on an evergreen contract or a three multi year three year five year contract with.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: With clients which increases your value.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: If you are looking to do an MNA or a sale and and then I encourage everyone it's easier to build a fixed fee you can set it on autopilot versus hourly it's less errors in your billing right we all know billing by the hour how many times do you get the clients that come back and go hey wait a minute that took five hours I thought it was going to take three why.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh god, you mean I were you in my office many years now.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah right just it is you get into that splitting hairs at you know we entered in a managed services just for that reason it was.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We'd work with customers and if they'd have a big security event and I'm going back to probably the early 2000s with this as managed services was just going live.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be able to go back for three months and then of course when we go back three months later because they they might be on their budget now there's a bunch of stuff to fix again so now it became this vicious cycle of catch up.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and when we made that position you know transition into managed services you probably ate a little bit in the beginning.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But really it was you know having a good handle on what your costs are what is it just cost operate end of the day forget about anything else if I don't know how much it's going to cost me to keep the lights on and pay everybody this month.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: As a baseline I can't even figure out what my price should be.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you've got 100 different ways whether you're an asset based company an hour based company or however you want to come up with your math to get to that fix.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: What percentage of what is your profit percentage you want should become a very easy equation.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah absolutely.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: No money no matter how many hours there are everybody's got to find out amount of hours they all got 160 a month give or take.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that they can bill and as long as you're doing what you want to do and building out at a rate that's high enough to cover those 100s.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep yep and then you start to look at your business on a portfolio basis you can dial it down if you're still tracking hours down to the customer basis but the reality is you just want to make sure that your customers aren't afraid to call you.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You know you want them calling you don't want them to avoid you because the fee was too high because it makes your work harder.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The goal of this is to make it easier.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah well we all know on the MSP side I think our our owners there have a really good job of service delivery automating where they can making things happen.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And easier reducing you know phone call load I think that's where there are form is and then you know they need that guidance on how to structure the books right for the maximum exit.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: How to make sure that they're not going to find themselves in trouble in six months where if a big customer leaves them and if they do what moves do they need to make quickly.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's another part right you know a lot of MSPs when they're at the early stage of life and truly can't afford a financial person are also at a stage of life where one big customer will allow them to get into business.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And they haven't yet sold to the point where you get to that point where no customers more than 10% of your business which is the optimal goal right so.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Right you know I'm sure that's a place where you guys can provide some guidance to on guard rails financial vehicles that you don't touch things like that go there because I know.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say for me and I'm sorry to monopolize here but one of my biggest struggles was when to borrow and when not to borrow.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It always borrow when you don't need it.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep and what's easier.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep and no certainly much easier to get the line but there are times where what's a proper investment into the business versus a risky investment into the business right.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll hear guys go that you know I took out a credit line and then I went out and did the sales and marketing campaign and they didn't really have.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Guard rails around that and they wasted 10 15 30 40 thousand dollars and I think that's the part that we all you know we're guidance from some of a true professional in the early stages can really make sure you don't fall into that.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah in have a good financial forecasting tool that you can run what if scenarios because that really gives you the picture.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And a good model will show you if you increase your revenue in this segment what's it going to do to your labor is again, go up is it going to go down how your expenses going to be affected and how's it going to affect your cash.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes taking on a customer and not modeling it properly can hurt businesses especially if you have to hire ahead.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's stay on that for a minute if you don't mind because one of the biggest challenges I think the MSPs have I know I've had in the past is you know quickbooks is great for telling you what happened but it isn't telling you what's going to happen right and it's tough to get good forecasting for our business so what kind of tools are you utilizing our business.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01]: What type of approaches does next level now do for that yeah so we do have a tool that we use that's called phathom and it links right into quickbooks anyone can use it and it will automatically create.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a financial model for you we take it a little bit deeper than where phathom will where we look at every single line item on your PNL and your balance sheet.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And take time to analyze we all know revenue can come in many different sources it could be revshare it could be tnam it could be managed service project you name it.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And well model out each of those so that for a customer that needs knows that they want to grow by go from 5 million to 7 million will map that out and tell you how many MSP clients you need to.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: talking to how many what is the average that you've been spent gaining on your MSP contracts and really map that out in map those costs in relation to that revenue.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_01]: in a real detailed manner so you know if you bring on 5 new MSP clients and your up max utilization what does that look like from a staffing how many people do you need to add in order to successfully deliver that.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And then what's the bottom line look like and let you see around the corners but that them for beginners is a really nice tool we use it in our firm we just use it really blown up but it will connect right with your quickbooks.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting in an amazing because that forecasting piece is a gap even at BCIO tool box you know what we're trying to do with the whole quarterly business review is.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know, you're going to have to tell our owners yeah but that's only part of the equation at least now you're with your existing portfolio of accounts you can predict what those service contracts are going to be you can build these two to five year plans what your customer which in turn will give you better insight into how revenue might be flowing back without acquisition being considered as part of that.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but at least giving you a sense of how that revenue is going to come from your business so you can at least make sure that you're going to cover what you think you need to cover during that period and it's a bit of a black hole in the industry and you know it's very cool that there are resources like yourself out there that can help with that.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah and in this toolfathom will help people be able to do I mean you're not we use it we use it to tell the story but it does do break even analysis you can do what if scenarios you can do growth planning and see it all with or without which is nice.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah no thank you for sharing that so you know we're getting near the end of our time and I want to make sure that we cover off on any other topics you want to cover I know we're talking a little bit about.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I don't know if you want to dive into that a little bit.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah so a is a disruption as we know to the world and how it is operated which is great right it works really well for getting rid of some of the routine.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was interesting someone gave me the analogy of ATMs versus going into the bank right how that is an AI disruption.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I thought that was really interesting when you think about it because AI at a conference we just attended last week was a big topic around help desk.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and how the use of AI is really coming up to replace help desk but the other thing we're seeing which is interesting in this industry and post COVID and it's happening in all industries but specifically in IT.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: post COVID people want to now start to connect with one another so we have seen people saying no I don't want your AI I want someone on the phone to answer my call or show up.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: so it's going to be interesting for businesses to really plan out how to effectively use AI for some of the routine well keeping that personal connection with their customers especially depending on the industry's use service but law medical.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: those are personal connection touches we've all experienced the use of AI just in our healthcare system that it has changed the way it's delivered.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and we want to make sure to stay with the trends that are coming and not fall behind we want to be on the leading edge of that but but really keep that personal connection and find that sweet spot.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: what level text do you need with the use of AI and when do you need that intersection to come into play to not hurt businesses.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I think there's a lot of mystery still in the AI that we're going to uncover I mean certainly we've seen a lot of good uses we've seen some of the far use uses out there too but.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I think really what the business communities trying to figure out is where is it going to help me enable me and make.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: automate my life and we're doing need to still stay human.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you know in the ATMs a great analogy right because there's a lot of people that have fear the ATM at first and you know I'll be one of them me from probably the first five years in ATM was out I'm like I'm not depositing a check I'll take money out but there's no way I'm putting my money in there right.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and we all eventually got past that and I think we'll find ways to harness this as well.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah very interesting topic and modeling it we had a client just today we're modeling their help desk and the clients that they're servicing for help desk want face to face.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: contact they don't want the AI but.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's you have to incorporate it because it's not always necessary or even the best service for the customer right we've all hired the low low level right out of college help desk.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: they don't always know all the answers AI knows a little bit more and can help maybe even faster and better.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: a question AI.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah sometimes that answers only partially complete but on the keys.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: well Brandy thank you so much for joining us today before we break though tell people where you're going to be in the future and did the best way to get in touch with you.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah thanks so much so we are going to be at IT Nation and if anybody wants to meet up in just chat they'll be six of us there.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: so we'd be happy to chat with anyone that's our next one we just came back from build IT which was great nice and small get together.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and if anybody has any questions or wants to just chat feel free to reach out to me at bebons at next level.net and I'll get right back to you.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: awesome Brandy well thank you so much for joining us today we will be putting your LinkedIn profile also as a way to connect with you.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and our show notes and certainly the promotion there.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: for everybody else thanks for joining us this week and we'll see you again next week get that you can get the podcast anywhere where you download your podcast and of course on YouTube so if you want to see us there grab us there Brandy thank you so much for joining us and enjoy the rest of your day as well.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: thanks.