James Steel | Using Customer Stories to Drive MSP Sales and Marketing

[00:00:09] Hey everyone, welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School. As always, I'm Brian Doyle and I'm here to lead our conversation today. One of the things that I hear from MSPs all the time, right, the biggest challenge is marketing, acquisition, getting in front of customers. And there's a hundred ways you can do it, but there's one little tried and true way that kind of sits there that really gets that prospect to make a shift if you do it right.

[00:00:36] And today my guest is going to share a little bit of how you can use this little tactic and kind of make it move some of your prospecting and in relationship building forward. So I'd like to welcome to MSP Business School today, my good friend James Steel from MSP Testimonials. James, it's always great to see you. How are you today? Brian, it is brilliant to be on here. You know, there's like a few podcasts where there's a lot of podcasts out there, right? Well, 120 odd MSP podcasts. You're definitely up there. I don't know how many episodes it is now, but literally hundreds.

[00:01:05] So this is one of those ones where I'll be like, okay, I'll tick the box. And you came on mine, you came on Harvest and I was just sat there waiting for the call. Yeah, come on. You know what happened there. I came on Harvest and you were scheduled and then there was a little transition in your life. And we had to reschedule because you are definitely one of those people that I was looking forward to having on because it's always fun when you also have somebody that's running a podcast themselves. Because they're not afraid of the camera and they're ready to talk. And that's always the most important pieces of this.

[00:01:35] So I'm really excited that we're finally getting the opportunity to do this. And I'm really excited about what you're building these days, too. But before we go into what you're doing today, maybe it would be great for those listeners that haven't had the opportunity to meet you out in some of the conference hallways to learn a little bit about James Steel. Yeah, and there have been a lot of conference hallways, let's be honest. I've been fortunate enough as well to do events over here. So I'm based in the UK in Manchester, but to do events around the world and particularly in the US.

[00:02:04] I've always really enjoyed those. So yeah, I really like that part of it. Hello, everyone. I guess just to quickly introduce myself, I won't give you a long backstory, but I've been in the MSP space for a long, long time, 15 years or so. And I've always been in either community or kind of sort of senior marketing and sales roles, that kind of thing. And I guess the thing that's relevant to this conversation today is probably that I was MD of a software distributor over here. So my job was basically to find products.

[00:02:31] Think of it as a mini Pax 8, that kind of thing, or other distributors are available. And basically, I'd find products and then I'd have to work with about a thousand or so MSPs to try and get the message out there, to educate them on how the products work and so on, get them interested. And the one thing that worked really, really well was video. And that was the thing. And it was kind of around that time I was like, okay, I can actually manage to get my message out there to many people using video. And of course, that's nothing new now.

[00:02:57] We all know that video is a really powerful medium, but it's that that's kind of carried through with subsequent roles. So yeah, so the video thing has carried on through. I worked for Linode and Akamai as a partner community director there. Set up a podcast, did loads more video content there. And it was just, you know, every single time video worked great. As you mentioned, there was a bit of a transition last year around September time where I thought, okay, now is the time. It's now or never.

[00:03:27] I'm 45. Now is the time. I'm going to have to, if I want to do something of my own, then I need to do it now. And so I'm now sort of combining the things that I love, which is sort of more the sort of conversational side, the interview side, and combining that with video. Yeah. And so testimonials is where I've landed. And we can talk a bit more about why that is. But yeah, that's where I am now. So founder of MSP Testimonials. And yeah, I'm looking forward to having a chat. So I think this doesn't have to be a pitch.

[00:03:52] I think there's some real gold here I can share that, you know, it doesn't, whether you work with us or not, that you can take away and use. No, and look, you know, there's always a pitch within our conversation, right? Just because we're all natural salespeople and passionate about our companies. But the truth is when we get into kind of that conversation about things like testimonials, it's really about that trust building, right?

[00:04:14] And one of the things that I always like to say, and it's certainly a key component of what I do every day, is I'm talking to my teams about building trust to foster the customer relationship, right? You know, the VCIO is the trusted advisor. I don't have to go down there. Listeners have heard me say that a million times. But that trust is the key word, right? And one of the biggest challenges when you're in the sales process, when you're doing customer acquisition, is very simply, I don't know you, right?

[00:04:43] You know, we're not brands like Google. We're not brands like, you know, like Oracle. You know, we're little mini cottage brands. And I used to always say to my sales teams, the shift is if you can get people when you make that cold call or that first introduction go from, oh, I've never heard of you guys, to, oh, I think I've heard of you before. It's subtle, but it's that first step in trust. Just that feeling of I'm aware of you ages you one step better than if it was purely cold.

[00:05:11] And, you know, one of the things that I'm seeing that you're doing is reinforcing building trust but showcasing it in a much stronger manner that now you can share it with those prospects and show an air of professionalism that some of your competitors might not be able to portray as well. Yeah, exactly. And actually, in the roles I've had particularly more recently, so Channel Chief at Sales Builder, and we did a lot of video work there. And I think that was really the light bulb moment was that every time I was going to do a piece of content, we did a lot of explainer content, and that was great. People, that same effect would happen.

[00:05:41] People would say, oh, great, I was seeing you on the explainers, and that does help. You know, you're getting across very clearly, this is what I do, and you get to see a person talking about it. And that is great. But you've always got to think, okay, what's the message? What am I going to say in that explainer? How am I going to take my thing, my service, and then put it across to people in a way that's going to resonate? There's always that sort of that piece. And it was almost as like a secondary sort of like, oh, I almost thought, well, you know, I probably should get some customer testimony. It would be a good idea.

[00:06:09] And so I did quite a rough one, I'll be honest with you. It was just literally just a straightforward, not a lot of preparation, quick chat with a customer. And I realized then it was like a sort of light bulb moment. I got the transcript back, and I was like, okay, hang on a minute. So I've got some great video content here. I didn't think of the words. So there's not that immediate, you know, alert goes off in the MSP's minds. We're like, oh, here we go, marketing person talking again. The customers are selling it for me.

[00:06:35] And this is, you know, this is nothing new, but just seeing it happen really, really dawned on me that, okay, so great. I've now got a customer doing all the talking for me. And the transcript, you know, this is really a time where this has come to life massively because the transcript now, as you can imagine, is hugely powerful. We've got these tools around us that can help us repurpose that into things. And of course, as we have those tools to create content, that's also more noise, isn't it? So it's even harder to get stuff across.

[00:07:04] So you've got this, I think you've got a few factors that have lined up here where you've got, you know, bringing the humans out, the ability to repurpose it. But also, as you said, you know, that human-to-human thing really shines through at a time when there's just a sea of content, you know. And I think, you know, what you started talking about a little bit there in the beginning too is, you know, I think a lot of MSPs, and most of us, let's not even say MSPs, the vendors out there are the same way too. It's, well, I've got to get this thing perfect.

[00:07:33] And, you know, I think perfect is the enemy of progress. It always has been, right? And, you know, really these testimonials just need to be from the heart, right? And if your customer is saying anything on your behalf, one, they took time out of their day to do it, so they really do care about what they're getting from you. And don't lose sight of that. And two, it is much stronger than anything you can say to your customer directly. You're so right. I mean, I think the thing is… They're waiting for perfection. That's a massive blocker. It really is.

[00:08:02] And, you know, the other thing I think that plays into this is why people don't do it is that you kind of, you know, you sold your services, you've got your customers on board, you're providing a great service, they've paid a fair amount of money for it. When you think of the scales, they're nice and level, aren't they? And then you go out to them and you say, oh, is there any chance I could just have some more of your time to tell me how great I am, you know? And it's uncomfortable for some people. And I get why. And then when you combine all that with kind of the other factors, like, okay, what am I going to do with it? There's the technical side. And, you know, as you say, you start to overthink it.

[00:08:32] And like so many things, you just, it gets shelved and it doesn't happen. But actually, in my experience, if you're, you know, you can make the ask and, you know, it works well. Not everyone will say yes, of course not. But you can normally, you know, we get introductions all the time and we do our own introductions. And our hit rate is really, really good. People do say yes and they are willing to help, but not if you don't ask. So I guess that's the main thing, really. The biggest takeaway from this is just stop for a moment and just try it.

[00:09:01] Just send an email that says, hey, look, you know, we've been working together. We'd love to capture your experience on camera. We'll make it totally painless. It's nice and relaxed. Can I grab? I mean, I spend 45 minutes max, really, with clients. But you could do this in 15. There's professional companies that do it in 15, you know, very quick. And I think that's what I'd like to get across today, really, is that you can, there's a skeleton version of this, which is so easy to do, you know, that would make a massive difference.

[00:09:29] So I guess that's the, that's what I want people to take from this. I would say one of the things that I think is a little bit easier in not just making the ask, but also getting people to participate is everybody has now gotten comfortable with video. If COVID forced anything on us, it forced everybody to get used to being in front of a camera like this, at least, right? So that fear we used to get, which is, I don't think I could be in front of a camera or that person that now does the mug shots. That stuff is gone. You've got to watch the video version, people. I'm broke now. That was good.

[00:09:59] So, you know, you know, I'd love to hear your take on where you're seeing kind of the best success in getting some of your testimonials, maybe. Yeah, I mean, definitely there's a, obviously there's a moment. I think the thing to do here, if you're going to do it, you know, if you're going to do it properly and you want to get a bit of a cadence going, then obviously when you experience some positive sentiment, that's the time to do it. So if you've got like a, you know, if you're using one of these services, only smile back comes to mind, but you know, the sort of CSAT score stuff or something like that, you know, that's a really obvious thing.

[00:10:26] Okay, when I've got a customer that's happy, I'll just reach out to them and do it then. What I see, you know, with clients who I've been working with for longer is that, okay, we do a few of those, we get a few going, but then let's get a little bit more strategic about it. Let's think, okay, well, you know, this quarter or half my focus is going to be, you know, I really want some more legal firms, for example. Okay, so let's be a bit more targeted and let's go after the ones that we've got, make a bit more of an ask for them.

[00:10:51] And there is also, there's other parts of this that, you know, obviously they get some content themselves, they get some exposure, which can be a good thing. I always mention, you know, backlinks are helpful as well. So they'll get that, you know, just to mention that there's a bit of SEO value there for you as well, potentially, you know, we don't quantify it, but there's more in it for you. And I think it's just a case of painting that picture that this is not going to be, it's not going to be a big, big ask really. We'll make it easy for you and there is something in it for you, you know, as well.

[00:11:19] And that's, you know, that's a great point. You know, it's kind of, there's still the win-win opportunity in getting a testimonial. And I like that concept of getting focused too, because I think some of us are like, well, I don't know what I want. You get those first couple of testimonials and you're like, good. But then look at what you're trying to accomplish as a business. You know, we have these strategy sessions internally. All right. We've seen that our big three customers, you know, let's take a generalist MSP. These are our big three customers and these are the three verticals they live in, but we know them really well.

[00:11:49] Should we go get more of those? It starts with also getting, proving that you can do the work with those. And a testimonial is a great opportunity to do that. Yeah. And I think the thing to do as well is to think about this. I mean, the bit that really appealed to me is that we can just create a video. But when you talk about the sort of the getting more customers, you know, we're now at a point where that transcript can turn into, you know, a beautiful PDF case study quite easily. You know, a single page guide.

[00:12:15] You know, the reels that address different parts of the buying process, you know, the kind of the awareness, getting to know bit. And then we always, you know, you structure it in a way where you can say, okay, well, you know, what's the key objection we often have? Right. Like, well, let's make a, let's make one of those reels. So in our conversation, make sure we get out that, you know, that objection from them. So, you know, was price an issue for you? Or were you concerned about potentially, you know, moving from your current provider to this or anything that went through your mind, that sort of stuff.

[00:12:41] And then that makes a great, you know, a great piece of content to address that part of the, you know, of the buying cycle. So this, you've really got at your fingertips here, you know, something that can address the entire buying process from outreach through to that kind of that, you know, just that evangelism of making sure. Everyone knows you're just continuing to do, you know, a good job. Yep. And to, you know, and that's really a great point too, because a lot of us get this testimonial. We slap it up on the website. Let's assume it's even a text testimonial at that point. Right. We slap it up on the website.

[00:13:10] Maybe we post it once on LinkedIn, but we never use it again. Right. And that great piece of who you are now needs to be found by others. It's not being put in their face, but they've literally got to stumble upon it. Right. Right. And now with all the, you know, when you look at a video testimonial, I do look at all those repurposing options, which goes, great. I can take this message, carve it into six different bite-sized pieces and release it periodically.

[00:13:39] With maybe a link back to the, you know, the master, if you will, over time and really get people engaged at different points in life. And it's a totally different world when you get to do that opportunity that. Yeah. There's so many places you can have them. I mean, you can use them in obviously sort of, you know, LinkedIn outreach potentially for the new guys. You've got, you know, proposals. I mean, from my days at Sales Builder as a proposal tool, you know, we would always recommend having, you know, case studies and customer evidence in your proposal as well. You know, you can embed a video there, great, or you can embed some quotes.

[00:14:07] So there's so much you can do there with, you know, using it throughout the process that, you know, it's kind of crazy not to. And what's quite interesting is I did a, I did a, I did basically, I used an AI tool to go to do some fire crawling. If you're familiar with fire crawl, you know, basically crawled MSP websites and basically went through and had a look at, okay, you know, what's the state of sort of social proof on most MSP sites. And as you can imagine, there were something like 43% had no video testimonials at all.

[00:14:38] And around 65% had literally no, you know, no actual testimonials. So it's kind of, yeah, it's a tricky one, really. It's one of those things where you just think, okay, well, there needs to be something there. And then now is the time to do it and it's never been easier. So let's try and jump on it. So, you know, a lot of the reason I've seen resistance to video testimonials in the past was when you think back to, you know, the previous days before our iPhones got better, things like that.

[00:15:05] It used to require hiring a videographer, getting out to the customer site, setting up a scene, you know, really going through all these kinds of steps if you wanted to do it professionally or trying to find them at the same conference you're going to be at and knock two or three of them there with that. But then you're also fighting the external battles of what's going on around you, right? That can be tricky. Authentic, but tricky sometimes, yeah. Authentic, but tricky, yes.

[00:15:29] Eyes wander because, you know, something passes by them as they're giving the testimonial or somebody gives them a wave or a shout out, you know. Please get to theater one. Oh, great. Yep, yep. So talk a little bit about, you know, the process you're taking to approach the marketplace today. Yeah, so in terms of actually when we, the sort of process we go through with clients, you mean? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let's understand a little bit about how MSP testimonials can help. Yeah, definitely.

[00:15:57] So, I mean, I think the thing is, and you can do this, you know, we crank it right up, okay? We do, you know, we do loads of custom animations and graphics and stuff and, you know, repurposing. We spend an awful lot of time on it. But I think there's a, I think our underlying process you can just use as an MSP anyway. It's fine. And we basically just have, you know, we make sure we get an intake form to start with. So we capture some basic information ahead of the interview.

[00:16:21] We have a basic kind of story arc, which we make sure you go through from, straight through from the context. We ask a little bit about the, you know, a little bit about the client. Then the challenges, it's that classic story arc, you know, solution, the results, and then you get a nice recommendation at the end. And then once we've got that, you know, once you've got that, all you need to do is use something like, particularly like Riverside or maybe like Descript or something like that.

[00:16:49] I mean, we put it straight into Premiere Pro and all that stuff. You just don't need to. You can even, I think you can even run the interviews themselves, of course, on Riverside or on Descript. So, you know, we use, we make sure people are sat in front of, you know, natural light, because that's just the most consistent thing to work with. So right in front of a window, take out all of that, you know, issue with, oh, the light's not balanced and so on. Use rear-facing cameras, you know. And so by the time it gets to Descript or Riverside, it's looking pretty good. You've got a bit of audio cleanup you can do on there.

[00:17:20] And those platforms will even suggest for you the reels. We were talking about this off camera before, you know, it's pretty good at finding the good chunks. So before you know it, you've got your video and you've got your reels. And then, of course, you download the transcript and you can start working with it in other areas. So that's pretty much our process, really. We just make sure that, you know, the client's well briefed. They know what's going to happen. We utilize the phone for high quality. And then we, you know, we lean on the platforms to make sure that the results are really good.

[00:17:49] And then we like to, what we do, we sort of bundle it all up in a sort of handover pack. So it says, right, okay, you know, this is what you use for sales. This is what you use for marketing. This is where you'd use it in the particular areas of the funnel and stuff. But again, you just don't need to. You can, of course, there's value in that. But as a smaller MSP, just get it. Just get the content. Spend the 15 minutes with a client. And you know what? There's something that's really, the part that I really enjoy is that I found out, and it touches on your area, Brian. It's almost like, it's not a QBR.

[00:18:18] But I found when I'm asking, particularly end users of MSPs, how, you know, how they're finding technologies change their lives. There's actually some light bulb moments where they say, yeah, you know, that's actually helped me. You know, now we can do like forms in meetings. And before we'd have to take away handwritten notes and things. That's really helped us, you know, improve efficiency. I'd never really thought of that before. And by doing that, you've actually cemented, in a way, the relationship further. So they do enjoy it.

[00:18:46] And they've actually cemented the relationship, you know, with the client. So it's almost like a little bit of a QBR enhancer, shall we say. Maybe we need an add-on, Brian, for the PCI toolbox. That's a great point. I mean, look, if you can do that, right, the best time to get your customer to say yes is when you're doing a business review, as opposed to when they're calling you about a ticket or a project or something like that. Right. And I always like to make those kind of asks. You know, we are obviously always looking for reviews as well.

[00:19:13] And, you know, I like to make those asks when I'm in those, you know, review calls where we're introducing new product features and people are getting excited about that kind of thing. And or, you know, after a coaching session that we do and, you know, we do weekly coaching and we see the same faces. You know, when you want to know who's going to come to your leads, look at who interacts with you. Right. So I'm like, or when you want to do these reviews or things like that, you know, everybody's probably familiar with BetterTracker, the channel program. Right.

[00:19:42] You know, and they've got a vendor review program and they'll even provide gift cards. And I'm like, oh, you know, who am I going to ask? You know, it's the old adage. Who do I want to impose on? That kind of thing. And then I looked and said, well, geez, I've got 30, 35 consistent people that show up every week for our coaching sessions, no matter what we're talking about. You know, we get a handful that come just for this. You know, there's different people that come just for the session, but there's 35 that kind of anchor this thing.

[00:20:09] Geez, you think they might be happy with what's going on? How crazy is it? And if you speak to most MSPs, they'll be able to name one. I mean, if they can't, then that's a big concern. One raving fan. And the other thing is as well, which we haven't really touched on at all. I mean, the value, and we've talked about this for our own businesses, but the value of now of having, you know, that little bit of video and some text. So in a blog article, you know, turn this stuff into blogs, into landing pages, into, you know, customer pages.

[00:20:39] You're starting to see now the, you know, the chat GPTs and Claude and Perplexity and so on start to rank this content higher because it's a mix of text and video. So, you know, if you've got raving fans and you're struggling with sales and marketing, then this is your, you know, this is your open goal really to go out there and do it on whatever level you choose. Yeah, I mean, it's such a simple story, right? But yet we all forget to do it. Like, who are those people that just love us?

[00:21:06] And sometimes I think we're afraid to impose on them because we also might be using them as referrals and we also might be using them in other capacities. But if they're willing to be a referral, they're probably willing to take a one-time shot, give you a name and go, how about sending that to some of these people that are asking for referrals? Yeah, you do have to widen it, don't you? Because I think, yeah, you're absolutely right. When I think of it in previous roles. Excuse me. Yeah, they're references. But there's always that one company or the two companies that you're like, oh, it's us again. It's almost laziness, isn't it? We're going to come back to you because we know you're great on camera.

[00:21:36] We know you love us. But, yeah, try and widen it a little bit if you can. Well, James, as always, our call or our conversations go quick and they bounce around. But, you know, I want to make sure that we cover off on anything that you really wanted to get out there and share with the audience. So, you know, we're getting near the end of our time. And before we say goodbye, I'd like to give you one opportunity to, you know, share something else that is kind of burning on your mind that you might want to get out there and share with our audience. Excellent. Thanks.

[00:22:01] Well, I think the main thing really is, I mean, I would feel like this session went well if there were companies who said, okay, yeah, you know what? Great. I can actually, I'm actually going to take that step. I'm going to give it a go. And I think the main thing for me is just taking action. So to help that a little bit, we've got a landing page, haven't we? So my site is msptestimonials.com. If you go to forward slash, I'm going to get this wrong, mspbs. That's it. Yeah. Okay. mspbs. That's the URL. So there'll be a kit there for you. We're just chuckling because we've just realized the other connotations.

[00:22:32] I've said it a million times. I never realized it kind of has a secondary connotation. Not in this session. Anyway, so yes, but there's materials there for you just to take away, just basically some things to help out with. Okay, the first email ask to your client. So if you're not sure what to put in that email, a little bit of information around the structure and some documents there to help you and also to sort of help you with what to create out of it.

[00:22:57] So I've got a full kit there really of items that will help you get moving with your testimonial journey. But I'll say this. If you want to do it and you feel you want to do it a step beyond what you feel you can do yourself, that's where James and his team come in. If you look over at MSP testimonials, they have the ability to do this for you and make this work for you as the MSP.

[00:23:22] And James has notoriously done some of the more creative video things that I've seen out in the marketplace. Go check out his Harvest podcast from the past and other things that he did in the time that I knew him over at Sales Builder. And you'll be amazed at what he can do with a piece of video.

[00:23:36] So if you really want to take it up a notch and you want to go beyond just getting the recordings and doing it yourself and you feel that a little help might help you or be great along the way, I really suggest you get a conversation with James and understand what him and his team can do for you. Yeah, thanks so much for that, Brian. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun doing it. I really enjoy that part of it. As I said, I enjoy video, but I really enjoy the chats as well. So I often come out of the sessions, you know, really buzzing because sometimes you're a little bit nervous before you have, you know, it's just human nature, isn't it?

[00:24:04] And I'll come out of it thinking, OK, that person I thought might be tricky. We both left going, that was pretty cool. That was pretty fun. So yeah, happy to, if you do decide you want to turn it up a notch, absolutely. We work with MSPs all around the globe. So feel free to give me a shout or head over to the website. And again, we've got, we'll have a link for MSP testimonials, you know, in the show notes. So you'll be able to get that listener as well. Also, if you want to reach to James directly, you can go to his very ugly LinkedIn handle.

[00:24:33] I mean, I'm not prisoner number 87639. You know, certainly reach out, connect with James. You'll get a lot of great information as he shares, you know, regularly out on LinkedIn as well. James, time flies, man. It goes by very quickly. But I promise this will not be the last time we do this. Excellent. No, I look forward to coming back again. Always a pleasure to talk to you. And I consider this a box tick now, Brian. MSP Business School. Yes, one of the top podcasts. I appreciate that. I don't know how big a box that is. I could think of some bigger ones.

[00:25:03] But we appreciate having you on board. Sometimes, you know, you wonder, are we really doing a good job here? We've just been around a long time. The consistency is, you know, as someone who runs a podcast as well, the consistency you put in. You know, I don't want to keep blowing smoke, but honestly, you should be proud of that. It's no mean feat to do a weekly show like this. Certainly appreciate that. And, you know, we have a lot of fun doing this, just like you have a lot of fun doing the testimonials. It's great to get to talk to folks like you. And, you know, it's been a great way to meet people in the community that I haven't otherwise met.

[00:25:33] So, you know, we have fun doing it. But listeners, as you know, you can get this podcast on YouTube. Please click the subscribe button and get notified when new episodes go live. Otherwise, download it anywhere that you can get your podcast. James, thank you again. Always fun to chat. And we'll do it again soon. Thanks, William. See you soon.