Mastering Differentiation How to Stand Out in a Crowded Market

[00:00:03] Welcome to MSP Business School, led by our deans of business development, Brian Doyle, Tim McNeil and Rob Rogers.

[00:00:11] Each week MSP Business School is committed to delivering you proven strategies, tips and tactics for MSPs to accelerate their business growth and revenue through better sales, better marketing and true account management.

[00:00:26] Classes start now, so let's get started. Let's throw it to the deans.

[00:00:35] Hey everyone, welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School. As always, I'm your host Brian Doyle. And I'm excited today because I've got somebody coming on the show who has been with us before so we'll say he's a friend of MSP Business School.

[00:00:50] But honestly I've gotten to know Dan a lot over the last, you know, six to eight months and he's been an incredible resource for me and my team and hopefully you'll see how he can be an incredible resource for you as well.

[00:01:02] So Dan Adams, I'd love to welcome you today. Great to be here. Thanks again and yeah I guess if you let me back on I'm considered a friend. Is that how it works?

[00:01:14] A friend of the show is anybody that comes back a second time because that means we didn't scare you off in the first experience and you're willing to come back and do it some more.

[00:01:23] And obviously we feel you're our friend, Dan, because we heard from our end users, our listener base that they enjoyed you as guests and they want to hear more. So, you know, I thank you for joining us again.

[00:01:34] And for those of you that are also fans of ECIO Toolbox, well by the time you've seen this, you'll be able to watch the recording. Dan's joining me again for our learning series.

[00:01:43] If you want to see learn a little bit more about elevating your brand, you can go to our YouTube channel and see that because this will be going live after we do our live session but you guys all get spammed before that anyway as we prep up to it.

[00:01:54] Well putting that all aside, Dan, you know, while there are a lot of people that have that will know you from your previous visit, there's a lot of new listeners so I'd love you to share a little bit about your background and, you know, how you came to be the CEO of both Upskill and the chairman of NIMS.

[00:02:11] Well, long, long time ago before internet ruled the earth.

[00:02:17] I got my start basically back at a software company called Novell before there was the internet before there was inner GUI interfaces or anything like that I was on the ring days right before token ring man that was so so literally.

[00:02:34] Yeah, I, I stuck Apple talk cards into PCs and using phone cables and stuff way back. So I was at Novell I was on the initial team that put Macintosh is on the PC networks, the first team that did that.

[00:02:50] And then ended up going out to Boston and started an IT service company. And that was the foundation for NIMS, and we have been here from the whole transition from netware from peer to peer and then when Windows started ruling the world and internet and everything

[00:03:10] came in so we've been here for a long, long time and I've been I've held every position there is to hold an IT services company.

[00:03:18] NIMS is very strong we are doing very well we're throwing down best in class growth and even us so I very fortunate to have such a phenomenal team there.

[00:03:29] And I think that's a great example of you know what we're going to talk a little bit about today too because it takes time to build that team as we all know in the MSP space.

[00:03:37] But when you do get to that point where you've built a good team and you've reached that level you get to do other things inside of your career and then that's probably where upscale comes into play a bit.

[00:03:47] Yeah, that is right up skill and what I'm doing now is really tied into that and that's really tied to the vision of just trying to help individuals better understand what's expected of them and what the rules are for success for both the businesses they work for and their own career.

[00:04:05] All of us have to kind of grope the dark whether we come from the technical background or maybe the sales side and figure this monster out, and I figure out the faster we all learn the rules of the game the faster we can excel.

[00:04:17] So that's really what up skills about it's just about trying to give everybody a leg up on the competition to expedite the time to competency and greater success.

[00:04:27] And then I think it also ties to something that I believe strongly and you know we're at graduation season right now and you know my daughter's a recent college graduate and we were having that discussion about career and I said look, your career is divided in three spots.

[00:04:41] Number one is, don't take the money always take the opportunity for the first five or 10 years of your career. Learn the skill sets that are going to carry you forward, then the next 1520 years are about accumulating wealth and being there for your family right that work life

[00:04:56] But really getting that and I tried to share them with her. And now you and I have hit that stage of our life which is as we get into the third tier, it's about legacy and it's about how we can give back to those communities and you know what I love in our conversation

[00:05:10] is you're willing to give back freely.

[00:05:13] The things that people need to understand that you've learned through doing that middle 20 years 15 to 20 years we just talked about so you know when you when you talk about that I appreciate that you're coming on and share a little bit about the legacy conversation, you

[00:05:25] know, doing your part for the legacy tier, but really sharing those conversations that are going to help people right from that initial find opportunity over money tier. Yeah, so well you know let's let's dive into maybe a little bit of that as well and let's talk a little

[00:05:39] bit about some of the problems that are out in the marketplace today, some of the mark, you know problems that you and I were talking about that our listeners often come to us about, you know, the first one is really differentiation in a market where everybody can kind of

[00:05:54] look the same right. We all run into that risk of being commoditized in the MSP space and looked at just as those service people and we have to differentiate our brand and owners have to understand how to differentiate a brand probably both internally and externally so maybe,

[00:06:11] maybe you can dive a little bit into some of your thoughts there.

[00:06:14] Sure, differentiation is it's an interesting thing and it kind of depends on your growth and your maturity on on how you see it I, I know that first when I was starting to grow you kind of wanted to throw every credential you could on your back of you

[00:06:31] Hey, we're Microsoft were were both novell if we should said my you know you throw you and you want these monikers and and in truth a lot of vendors want you to be repping their brands too and so there's a lot of pressure to put that on you.

[00:06:47] And I found that it used to be that the arch our clients would want that they used to ask you know well are you Microsoft certified or you Cisco certified and that became really the, the first differentiator that you would try and use but over time.

[00:07:03] I haven't heard clients asking that as much as they used to. They're really asking questions kind of beyond this and this is an opportunity for, for us as providers in the industry to really let the things that we do and how we do it be those differentiators

[00:07:22] to help us stand out.

[00:07:28] I think it's interesting to me.

[00:07:31] I had a consulting gig many years back, where I was busy on wanting to do the technical work, and it was a 14 point when.

[00:07:41] I was doing the work for a consulting firm so that bunch of MBAs, nothing but MBAs and they were, you know consulting a very high-level company.

[00:07:50] And I was working on the marketing side of things.

[00:07:54] And I was working on the marketing side of things.

[00:07:57] And I was working on the marketing side of things.

[00:08:00] And I was doing the work for a consulting firm so that bunch of MBAs, nothing but MBAs and they were, you know consulting a very high rate and one of their leadership came by and saw the diagram I was doing and this was about four or five months into the project.

[00:08:19] And took this piece of paper and was just ecstatic.

[00:08:24] We're just like, I've got to show this to everybody. This is the most powerful thing you've done today and I'm thinking, this guy's smoking crack because all this work I've done, and he's excited about this map that I'd created.

[00:08:40] And I hadn't realized up to that point that being able to show how you're doing things and how you're approaching it to someone who's not the technical type, how they gravitate, how they really appreciate that.

[00:08:55] And I think you've really hit on something there because, you know, if we go back to, you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, we were talking to people that needed to be educated on what it was we were doing.

[00:09:07] Those product certifications were because if you had that they felt it validated you because they didn't know how to validate you because they weren't part of that process, right?

[00:09:16] Yet at that stage, you putting together a Visio map helped them see the picture that they couldn't connect in their own head.

[00:09:23] So even if it didn't help everybody, it helped that direct contact that you had, right?

[00:09:28] Now as we're transitioning and we're looking at how to differentiate our brand, we're also seeing a transition in those people in those seats, right?

[00:09:35] Where today we have digital natives now becoming leaders, the kids that have had their hands on IT their entire lives where you and I, you know, we went to college at a time where you didn't really have your hands on IT.

[00:09:47] There might have been some mainframe systems that we got to use on campus, but we didn't have PCs, right?

[00:09:53] And I don't mean that to date ourselves, but I mean it more like the kid, you know, the next generation of managers have always understood IT.

[00:10:01] So they're not so much as concerned about how it works, but how are you going to make us better? What's the business story behind it?

[00:10:09] You know, I've said and I don't want to take any thunder from the next part of your conversation, but I've always said the IT, the trusted advisor in IT now needs to be part management consultant, part IT consultant.

[00:10:21] So we need to wear both hats to really do that. And that's a differentiator still in the marketplace because there's plenty of people just do a break fix.

[00:10:28] So I'd love to hear some of your thoughts there.

[00:10:30] Well, we'll get into that in a little bit, but let's finish a little bit more on the differentiator.

[00:10:34] Sure.

[00:10:35] And that is, is when you can take how you do something, take your roadmap.

[00:10:42] So you don't have to go back to the nerd parts per se, but take the this is the system in the process by which we accomplish this result for you.

[00:10:52] It brings a lot of confidence and benefit to the individual who's receiving it.

[00:10:58] So you can have a lot of vendors or possible MSPs talking to a prospect, but when you can take them through the roadmap of how you do it.

[00:11:10] It's a strong differentiator because everyone's saying we do it.

[00:11:16] When you show them the recipe and the steps you're doing, it gives you a level of credibility and stand out that most of the competitors out there just are not doing.

[00:11:27] It puts you in a phenomenal light.

[00:11:29] And I think it gives you some rope for when that project's going on too because you've laid out the recipe.

[00:11:35] So now there's a better expectation set from your person across the table from you.

[00:11:41] And that gives you a little bit more leeway as you go through the project for those things that just happen when we deliver technology.

[00:11:47] You've given them a chance to buy in to believe in you and then follow along in the music where they're at which gives them even more and more confidence.

[00:11:56] So each of us, we can be great at what we do, but when we can start showing some of those steps, it lets them buy into us.

[00:12:05] It lets them believe in us more.

[00:12:07] It lets them have start to have greater trust in us.

[00:12:11] And that's transparency in the relationship.

[00:12:14] Exactly.

[00:12:15] And those are all things that just bode well for you to have in your pocket for you to differentiate.

[00:12:20] So one of the strong things that I see missed all too often is we talk about what we're going to do, but ideally you can show the core steps and don't make it over complicated.

[00:12:34] But really, what are those core parts and steps and and wickets you kind of have to go through to accomplish that task and it's a strong, strong differentiator.

[00:12:43] And the nice thing about it is a salesperson can use the tool account management can use the tool.

[00:12:51] Right.

[00:12:52] It's not just the technical side.

[00:12:55] Everybody benefits from this and you get the credit because they're looking at it.

[00:13:00] It's your company, your system.

[00:13:02] And no matter what role you're playing in that company, it's a roadmap you can point to and it builds confidence in you.

[00:13:08] Yeah, and it also kind of shows that the entire, you know, the entire team is working together on the other side.

[00:13:15] That there isn't that disconnect that can often happen in organizations between sales teams and tech teams and delivery models.

[00:13:22] You know what I mean?

[00:13:23] And you committed what and what do they expect?

[00:13:26] You know, so it helps level set that too, which of course instills higher level of competence in your clients.

[00:13:31] It's true.

[00:13:32] Now, it can be a two edged sword as you as you kind of alluded to.

[00:13:37] Right. If we're now committing to this, now everybody on your team has to know those wickets.

[00:13:41] Yeah.

[00:13:42] And and make sure you follow them because your client will call you out.

[00:13:45] It's like, wait, I bought into you guys because you said you were going to do it this way and you skipped step three.

[00:13:50] Are you guys full of crap or what?

[00:13:52] So you do have to make sure that you've you've bought into it.

[00:13:56] But you are way ahead of the competition just by having those steps in place.

[00:14:02] Well, it aligns expectations, in my opinion.

[00:14:05] That's always the key to success is if expectations are aligned, you're going to have good outcomes.

[00:14:10] Yes, there may be challenges in the beginning.

[00:14:12] But if you're not laying out the process to some degree, no matter what that process might be, one side is expecting something that the other wasn't ready to give you.

[00:14:20] Right.

[00:14:21] If you translate it to a sales process, if you're not at every touch point setting the stage with the next step, you're not in alignment with your customer.

[00:14:30] Right.

[00:14:31] If you're delivering a project, if you're not setting a timeline and then showing where you are periodically in that timeline, if it's a larger scale project, you're going to run into an expectation set of that more should have been there.

[00:14:42] And all those things tarnish your brand and are what puts you into those moments of potential jeopardy of retention or referral or just getting paid sometimes.

[00:14:54] All those things matter, especially the getting paid part.

[00:14:59] So this is a subjective, and that's a scary thing.

[00:15:03] Subjective is just a way of saying everybody has their own interpretation of what that is in the book that I wrote one of the main lessons is tied to expectations and how the other person your client or whoever you're serving so your expectation can be the client

[00:15:22] that you're reporting to.

[00:15:24] You know, whoever is judging your work or saying you did a great job or you did a bad job. It's their expectation that is setting the measuring stick.

[00:15:34] And sometimes in the technical world or in any spot of this, we can bust our hump and we can do everything we can.

[00:15:42] And but if we're marching to what we think success is and our expectation is without, you know, confirming what they think it is. There's a gap there that we can get bit on and every one of us I think in life have worked really hard thinking that we've done something

[00:15:57] wonderful for someone and the other person didn't receive it at the level we thought they should have received it at. And you're right, that's a mismanagement of expectation. And if you do not manage it, then the other person gets to in their mind figure out what they think it should be

[00:16:14] And if you don't know what it is, I can't read your mind, Brian. You and I might get along we might, you know, see things that we think eye to eye but unless I have confirmation of what you think success is, I'm swinging a pinata bat in the dark, you know, being disoriented and drunk.

[00:16:33] My chances of hitting it are next to zero.

[00:16:36] And again, I don't want to gloss over that point right there. If you don't define what's a successful outcome is and understand what your customers perspective on that's going to be, you know, as you're closing a sale moving into a project which is or getting them into a managed

[00:16:50] service. You don't know what they think is their criteria of success, you're probably not going to hit it. So these but but these can be hard conversations sometimes depending on where you are in your confidence and career arc to

[00:17:02] Yeah, it's an interesting thing I know when when we were starting out, we had the mindset of serve the customer right and whatever the customer wants is right. And we would we would bend over backwards trying to make this happen.

[00:17:15] And then you realize at some point, wait, the customer really doesn't know technology. They really don't know what the best decisions are. And you switch from whatever you want, Mr. or Mrs. customer to hey guys, this is really the right way to do it and this is the way we do it.

[00:17:31] And that's a big maturation flip to be able to say, wait, I know enough of what should be done here that this is how we're going to do it. And this is why we're going to do it. And that's a big step. Another maturation step beyond that is you explain this is how and the why we're going to do it.

[00:17:50] And if they do not agree, you don't bring them on as clients because you cannot be all things to all people. So you go from being subservient letting them dictate everything and you're running like crazy to being confident to be able to say no, this is the way we really should do it.

[00:18:07] And then sometimes you let them bend it a little bit because they're the client. We're going to try and make it work. So really at the top of like, guys, this is how we do it. I mean, can you imagine going into the Toyota dealership and saying, you know what?

[00:18:19] I appreciate all your safety features, but I want the seat belt to be different. I want the, you know, I want to move the airbags on do all this. They look at you and say what? Get out of here. Right?

[00:18:32] It becomes it becomes that higher level where you know well enough on how best to do it and how you want to serve your clients. And you put a box around it and you don't let people distract you from what you know is best.

[00:18:44] Now, that's I mean, and that's a great analogy, the Toyota analogy, because really what we're trying to do, you know, we sit there and say, we're trying to sell transformation to our customers.

[00:18:54] But yet we'll let them continue to try to drive us and fit the square peg into the way that they're doing it today. And it's like, well, if that's the case, then let's just refresh what you got. Right? Because we're not changing the dynamic of what you're trying to achieve.

[00:19:08] We're not trying to improve workflow efficiency, you know, automate a process. All the things we love to talk about in the world of IT, especially during that sales process. And then we're not going to deliver on it. And then we look back because we weren't confident enough to sell the transformation.

[00:19:23] We're not going to sell the transformation.

[00:19:25] I hear the transformation. That is so true. The other analogy I'll use is you're a doctor and the patient comes to you and is in pain and they're dying for help. And you tell them it's appendicitis and they say, well, what do you need to do, doc?

[00:19:38] You say, well, we're gonna have to make an incision down here and we're gonna have to go out there and remove the appendix so you're safe and blah, blah, blah. And they look at you and say, well, I can't have a scar there.

[00:19:48] You're a really great doctor. What if we put the scar up over here? And so the problem is, they're now dictating how to do it. They're now taking you out of best practices and no matter as soon as you agree, they're still holding you accountable to the ultimate results.

[00:20:04] So even if you're bending the right way to do it, to try and accommodate them, they don't take that into consideration. They still beat you up because you failed and you're an idiot. It's like I should never have let them dictate how we're going to solve their problem.

[00:20:19] If anybody's listening, just look back to your pain points and I guarantee you'll find a point where you bend it away from the standard practice. And when you did that, you ultimately paid the price.

[00:20:29] So nothing we're saying here is new. We're just reinforcing that you can't be rigid, but you got to make sure you're staying to the critical key points and something cosmetic.

[00:20:44] A little bendy, but the core has to be, Toyota will let you change the color of the paint. They'll let you change the trim line.

[00:20:52] You can have a bench seat or you can have buckets. There's all those kinds of differentiators.

[00:20:57] Right. The core integrity of the car is the same and that's what you've got to get to. You've got to get to that standard, reliable, predictable spot and you can't do that on a random basis.

[00:21:08] Right. Awesome.

[00:21:10] So, you know, we've touched upon a little bit about kind of differentiation of brand we've touched upon, you know how to approach that with the customer. Let's just, you know, maybe share a little bit in the in the closing minutes that we got together.

[00:21:23] You know how does one kind of build up to being that trusted advisor and I think we've laid out a couple of the steps in our conversation so far, you know, be transparent.

[00:21:33] Get to the point where you're holding your guns but giving a little room for wiggle where appropriate so the customer feels good. But what are some other things that you feel are critical to really being in that trusted advisor role?

[00:21:45] So yeah, in our training we've got there's four key areas that you have to have present to enable that trusted advisor relationship.

[00:21:53] So let's drive, let's dive into one of them and how it talks about and how it kind of aligns with our topic of differentiation if you will.

[00:22:01] And what that is is for me to turn to you and trust you want your advice.

[00:22:07] You have to have a history of success.

[00:22:11] Meaning that you have to have a track record and ideally it's a proven track record with me but if not, it's going to be an industry. And there's a reputation and you've got case studies or you can talk about in one of the key areas that is important there.

[00:22:26] This is this is an area where that defines system that helps differentiate you in the sale also gives the individual confidence that you know what you're doing.

[00:22:37] So let's talk another interesting thing about a documented diagram about system.

[00:22:43] Those, those generally are not random. Those come from repetition, thought, experience, and you're kind of mapping out the milestones the way points to success.

[00:22:58] When I see that you've done something enough that you've built up an experience base and expertise in it.

[00:23:05] And then when I've seen you've done it up enough that that you've actually got a best practice and approve a method to the point that you've documented it and can explain it.

[00:23:14] That gives me like, wait, this isn't their first rodeo. This is not the first time they've been down this path so the things you're promising me or telling me you're going to be able to do.

[00:23:24] You're not only, you know, obviously about clients and you're still in business. So I feel good about it. But you've got a system.

[00:23:30] And, and I don't know if you've noticed that in so much of the people out there trying to sell us stuff is we love a system we love.

[00:23:38] Hey, this is the 123 to lose weight, the 123 to grow hair, the 123.

[00:23:44] You know finding your mate online. We love those because as people, we lean towards a system and organized system because it makes us believe there's a higher probability of us getting what we want.

[00:23:59] So, you being able to differentiate yourself with an organized structure document every like that also puts you in a phenomenal position to demonstrate that you have a history of and also a, a system to help them accomplish what they want.

[00:24:21] And let's face it, it took us the time and the experience to build that system with a lot of process reengineering along the way so you know going back to where you started this conversation, they that the reputation comes from having the experience in that

[00:24:36] experience comes from having some of the failures that lead you to solidifying and hardening in the approach right so you can't substitute time in some of this conversation but you can hack time to a degree by making sure that you look back at every, every step you do in your

[00:24:50] life. One of the things I teach is the value of an iteration, a value of a practice loop, and so often we go through life and depends it you know you can be the owner, you know manager and employee account man doesn't matter where you are.

[00:25:06] But every time you're doing something, it is a practice loop.

[00:25:10] Now, you can just go through it mindlessly and get it done.

[00:25:17] Or you can go through it intently with your eyes open being aware being present what's working what's not working what can we improve next time how could we measure this.

[00:25:26] And every time you go through that you can make that practice loop, more and more effective than just getting through the day.

[00:25:36] And so, there's an interesting thing you can be have five years of experience in the industry, and your actual abilities can be meh.

[00:25:46] Or you can have five years of experience in the street and you can be head and shoulders above your peers. In fact, the whole, you could do it in a short period of time, if your practice, if your iterations are mindful.

[00:26:00] And one of the key things that we teach on this whole thing in fact, I call it Peds but not performance enhancing drugs, but just you practice it, you evaluate it.

[00:26:10] And then when you evaluate it you come to a point where you need to make a decision on how you're going to do it different and improve it next time that improvement process expedites your growth.

[00:26:20] So, you're right, a repetition is important.

[00:26:25] So, this is important and we can really magnify it if it's mindful.

[00:26:29] So, Dan while you were talking I put your website up in the bottom left hand corner for those that are watching YouTube it will also be in the notes for those that are listening today.

[00:26:38] But why don't we close out today, talking a little bit about what your user might be able to learn from you if they come visit you at upscale and potentially become a partner.

[00:26:47] So, a couple of ways of dealing with this you've got the book. Right so the tech nerds guide to career success and what that is is basically, as we talked about the intro and about legacy and sharing.

[00:26:59] It's about giving some key lessons that took me a lot of scars, and all my hair to learn.

[00:27:06] And I'm talking about the radio land right there's nothing left, but it's it there's lessons of that where success comes from and it's not being the biggest nerd.

[00:27:17] It's not wanting to make your clients the happiest even though that's part of the process there's some other things that really dictate our success in our careers in our contribution to the company.

[00:27:27] The book is really about that and it's a cheap simple way to kind of get an idea and exposure to this, but there's also training courses that are really about teaching service professionals the fundamentals of what it takes to be a competent professional someone

[00:27:43] that you relied on and trusted. And then there's core concept course that movie the next level to talk about some of the drivers that bring success to a professional services firm, that then when you're in your peer groups or your leadership groups when you're really starting to dive into service desk management

[00:27:59] and what it's like, you've got the nuts and bolts to really make that guidance effective. That's what we do.

[00:28:05] Awesome. So again if you want to visit and learn more about Dan that way please go to www up dash skill calm and you can learn more about how to get his book, how to potentially get his courses and certainly there's some great resources there for those who are just visiting as well.

[00:28:22] If you want to reach Dan, you can get him at the Adams at ups dash skill calm, and then as always we'll be posting his LinkedIn information as well within our show notes so you can connect with them on that platform.

[00:28:35] Dan always appreciate you coming on board to chat you know I'm looking forward to our session next week which by the time you listen or see it will give you another reason to go see Dan out at the BC IO toolbox YouTube page but, you know, I appreciate all the conversations

[00:28:49] we have I always learn something along the way, and you know, I want to make sure that we're supporting you the same way you support the community so thank you for joining me.

[00:28:59] Very kind Brian and I appreciate what you're doing to elevate the channel as well. That's it. We've gained a few tidbits of knowledge and we all learn from each other.

[00:29:08] We all rise so thank you.

[00:29:10] So again everybody you can find this podcast anywhere you get your podcast visit us over at YouTube and subscribe to the channel, and we'll see you all again next week with our next installment MSP business school.

[00:29:22] Dan Thank you very much. Appreciate it.