Mastering the MSP Owner Mindset Breaking Barriers for Explosive Growth

[00:00:01] Hey guys, it's Brian Doyle and this week on MSP Business School we've got a sales clinic to bring to you. My old boss, actually my first boss, Rod Capabianco is going to join me and we're going to really cover a bunch of topics around sales like effective hiring, essential training approaches, and how to keep your sales team on track. Can't wait for you to join us. Now let's get to this week's MSP Business School.

[00:00:26] Welcome to MSP Business School led by our Deans of Business Development, Brian Doyle, Tim McNeil, and Rob Rogers. Each week MSP Business School is committed to delivering you proven strategies, tips, and tactics for MSPs to accelerate their business growth and revenue through better sales, better marketing, and true account management. Classes start now, so let's get started. Let's throw it to the Deans.

[00:01:00] Hey everyone, welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School. As always, I'm Brian Doyle and we're here today with what I think is going to be a very fun interview. I've had the opportunity to speak with our guest today and be on his podcast, both him and his twin brother.

[00:01:17] And they really run a fun podcast and hopefully I can replicate some of that fun for him today that I enjoyed and experienced when I jumped on their podcast. But without further ado, I'd like to welcome Danny Brown. How are you today, sir?

[00:01:30] Doing well. Thank you so very much. It is an honor to be on this amazing podcast you have. I love the title of your podcast. I think it's fantastic.

[00:01:38] You're lucky on that one, right? You go out and look for a URL and that one sat out there. But you know, we're really, and really it speaks to what we're trying to focus on, Danny.

[00:01:46] There's enough tech talk out there that people that are much smarter than I can tell people how to do the incredible things that our engineers do.

[00:01:54] My superpower was growing businesses and growing sales teams and marketing teams. So stick in your lane, as they say, right? And do what you know.

[00:02:03] And to that end, I know that's a big part of your background, but maybe for those that have never had the opportunity to meet you or see you, which would be kind of shocking in this industry.

[00:02:13] Maybe you can share a little bit about your background and what you've done within the MSP community and what you're doing today.

[00:02:19] Awesome. Thank you, Brian. I think that's a great question. Just to give people a quick update on my background.

[00:02:25] I am an engineer at heart. I know a lot of times people think, hey, you lead sales, you do a lot of sales training.

[00:02:31] You actually help run people's organization as a fractional CRO. But I am a technical nerd at heart.

[00:02:37] I grew up learning about science, breaking things, putting it back together, building my first clock, getting into ham radio.

[00:02:43] I even have a degree in mechanical engineering and physics, dual degree. And I actually went to graduate school, master's computer science as well as an MBA.

[00:02:51] So it's one of the things where I love technology. I began my career as an systems administrator.

[00:02:56] I was a network engineer after that. And then there's this thing called sales that someone introduced to me.

[00:03:03] So Danny, you have a good way of taking something complex and being able to break it down and simplify it in terms that make sense to business owners.

[00:03:11] And I said, well, I speak their language. I speak their lingo. If I know exactly what's important to them, I know the industry.

[00:03:17] That's what I speak. And that's how I cross over to the world of sales engineering.

[00:03:20] And then my career began at IBM from there as a sales engineer.

[00:03:24] And this is my first taste of learning how to blend technology and blend sales from a business perspective, a financial perspective.

[00:03:30] And then after working for several different, what we call OEMs, original equipment manufacturers at the time before cloud computing became really big, I decided that it was time for me to start a value-added reseller business.

[00:03:41] I understood the data center space. I knew what it looked like. And we decided to go all in with one vertical, architectural engineering.

[00:03:47] And the reason why we did that, because I felt like as an engineer myself, I was a nerd.

[00:03:52] I understood networking. I understood why you have to have big pipes in order to push CAD CAM drawings through.

[00:03:58] And one of our biggest clients happened to be the third largest architectural firm around the world said, can you also do installation?

[00:04:05] Can you also maintain our network environment?

[00:04:08] And after several, what I call Cisco refreshers, which was a lot of money at the time.

[00:04:13] Oh, back then. Huge.

[00:04:14] We went from being a small player like this to being a huge player where Dell, Cisco HP called us up on and said, hey, what are you guys doing?

[00:04:22] You're getting big all of a sudden. We need to know you.

[00:04:24] And that was my first taste of being an MSP, learning on the spot how to put together service contracts, how to deliver QBRs, all the things that people care about, learning which tech stack works the best with the vendor, learning how to get my techs trained up from level one, level two, level three.

[00:04:38] So I went through this whole process.

[00:04:40] And after eight and a half years of a successful MSP, we sold it.

[00:04:44] And then I went to work for a distributor, a cloud distributor.

[00:04:47] And that cloud distributor allowed me to continue to work with MSPs, traveled all the roadshow.

[00:04:51] And I would have to say that my small team of 10 people had almost 60 percent of the company's revenue.

[00:04:57] So we're really excited about what we did, what we built, because we were in the community with MSPs and we understood them.

[00:05:04] We knew exactly some of the challenges we went through and we built programs to make sure that their needs were met.

[00:05:09] So that's a little bit about my background.

[00:05:11] Also, I'm an identical twin and I spent some time in the military.

[00:05:14] So I do get the benefit from having veteran status when it comes to running my own company.

[00:05:19] But that's really my background all in one little quick minute.

[00:05:23] First, always thank you for your service.

[00:05:25] Certainly appreciate that.

[00:05:27] And, you know, those benefits they give to the veterans, I think, are well earned.

[00:05:30] There's things that should be happening there and probably more of it.

[00:05:33] But I don't want to gloss over something that kind of sat in my mind as you were giving your backstory.

[00:05:38] You were a technical person.

[00:05:40] So the traditional technical founder.

[00:05:42] And then not only did you gravitate to sales, but you embraced it.

[00:05:46] So maybe talk a little bit about just very high level.

[00:05:50] What was that transition like for you?

[00:05:52] You know, I mean, that's probably the biggest struggle most MSP owners have today.

[00:05:56] I'm done with referrals and my friends and now I got to go out and sell.

[00:06:01] How do we get going on that?

[00:06:03] Absolutely.

[00:06:03] That's a great question.

[00:06:04] I realized that my company was stuck around the same revenue every single year.

[00:06:10] I knew that there was something not right.

[00:06:13] And what wasn't right was I knew everything.

[00:06:15] And my technical team didn't really have as much trust.

[00:06:18] I didn't have trust in them.

[00:06:20] And so one day I was doing an install and my integrator, if you're into this business operation process, because I was a visionary, my integrator came to me and said, stop doing this.

[00:06:31] What am I doing?

[00:06:32] You can no longer do installs.

[00:06:34] You can no longer go on site and install a router, install a switch.

[00:06:38] You can no longer go on site and do troubleshooting.

[00:06:40] What am I supposed to do?

[00:06:41] You need to go and speak more.

[00:06:42] You need to go be with the community more.

[00:06:44] You need to go to architectural engineering conferences more.

[00:06:46] You need to learn to let your people be 80% of what you are.

[00:06:50] And that's good enough.

[00:06:51] As soon as I let go, we went from a team of about three and one intern to a team of 13.

[00:06:57] We expanded from one office to three offices across the United States because I learned to let go of all the hats I was wearing.

[00:07:03] But it came because someone slapped my hand and said, no, no more installs.

[00:07:08] No, no more technical refreshes.

[00:07:10] You're not allowed to do that anymore.

[00:07:11] And that's when I realized I was the bottleneck, not my people.

[00:07:15] And I think that's a good transition into getting deeper into the owner mindset, right?

[00:07:20] Because I think all of us tend to hold on longer, sit quicker.

[00:07:25] I hear too much with technical or with owners that I work with that, you know, hey, it's just faster for me to get it done than to teach somebody.

[00:07:33] But the problem is then you've got to keep doing it, right?

[00:07:35] So I'd love to hear from you some of your thoughts around the MSP owner mindset and what things that we might need to shed as baggage.

[00:07:42] You're absolutely right, Brian.

[00:07:44] There is this mindset that owners have.

[00:07:46] It's this fear mindset.

[00:07:47] It is the lack mindset, not the abundant mindset.

[00:07:51] And once you let go of that fear mindset and you embrace the abundant mindset, you start to see things blossom.

[00:07:56] Your employees take ownership.

[00:07:58] It's what they call entrepreneurship, where they have this entrepreneurship mindset internally within your company.

[00:08:03] And when they have this entrepreneurship and they understand that you start to trust them, then their mindset changes to where they're like, I'm a valuable piece of this organization.

[00:08:12] Everything I do matters in this organization.

[00:08:15] And that's the most important thing that has to be done.

[00:08:17] Starts with owner first.

[00:08:18] You have to let go.

[00:08:19] It's not that you're less.

[00:08:21] It's not that you're not well.

[00:08:22] It's not that you're not awesome.

[00:08:24] You're amazing.

[00:08:24] You started an organization.

[00:08:26] You started a company.

[00:08:27] That is commendable.

[00:08:29] But what's more important than anything is learning to embrace that you can let go and grow.

[00:08:35] So I'm going to encourage our audience today, let go and grow.

[00:08:39] I know that's very difficult.

[00:08:40] And the second thing is if you take care of the little things, the big things take care of themselves.

[00:08:45] And what I mean by the little things is that if you start putting little SOPs in place, then operational procedures, you start doing little mini trainings in place.

[00:08:51] You start doing little ways that you can get your technicians trained.

[00:08:55] By the time the big thing comes up, we have to do it on their own.

[00:08:59] They're going to be ready to go.

[00:09:00] So take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves.

[00:09:04] Yeah, it's amazing.

[00:09:05] If you document your steps and processes, even before you've got people on board, how much easier it makes that moment when you bring that person to transition.

[00:09:13] And I also love that statement about think about abundance and not scarcity, right?

[00:09:18] You hear it all the time.

[00:09:19] But I go back to even when I was an MSP, we sat between New York City and Boston.

[00:09:23] But there was 94,000 identified small to midsize businesses in Connecticut, right?

[00:09:28] Now, you could argue some of them were probably LLC shells and some of that.

[00:09:32] But let's say the number was even just 50,000.

[00:09:35] How many do you need as an MSP to truly have a kick-butt business?

[00:09:40] 50?

[00:09:41] 100?

[00:09:42] You know what I mean?

[00:09:42] You don't need to conquer the world to really have an incredible, incredible service provider business.

[00:09:49] And I think the owner's got to get in that mindset of, I just need to find my 50 or 100 ideal people, the people that I want to work with too.

[00:09:56] And let's build it from there.

[00:09:58] So I'd love to get your thoughts on the MSP owner mindset and around maybe growth.

[00:10:04] Absolutely.

[00:10:05] First of all, know your ICP.

[00:10:07] In the sales world, we call that your ideal client profile.

[00:10:10] So it's very important.

[00:10:12] Look at your CRM.

[00:10:13] Look at your financials.

[00:10:14] Look at your data.

[00:10:15] And more likely you're going to have an 80-20 rule where 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your clients.

[00:10:20] And look at those clients.

[00:10:21] Where are they at?

[00:10:22] What vertical?

[00:10:23] What industry?

[00:10:24] What was the technology tech stack that you sold?

[00:10:27] And then go all in with that.

[00:10:29] And when you do that, you're going to start realizing that you're going to come across as a subject matter expert.

[00:10:33] You're going to come across as someone who people want to speak with.

[00:10:36] They're going to want to work with.

[00:10:37] They're going to actually have word of mouth referrals within the industry that stated, hey, who do you need to work with?

[00:10:43] Who understands us?

[00:10:44] Who understands our regulations, our rules?

[00:10:46] Who can help us with IT?

[00:10:47] And I know that they're going to be there as a trusted advisor.

[00:10:50] You're going to be the one that comes up over and over and over again because that's all they see of you.

[00:10:54] And then your other MSP family members, your other brethren, sisters out there who have their own companies, you can now start giving them opportunities.

[00:11:01] And you can actually use that as a second opportunity for a revenue stream as well.

[00:11:05] So focus on your ICP.

[00:11:07] And what you're going to realize, it takes care of itself where you don't have to spend as much time and energy as you did in the past because you have a specialized ICP.

[00:11:15] And those thousands and thousands of potential clients will turn out to be that 50.

[00:11:19] And that 50 is all you need.

[00:11:21] And they're going to love you.

[00:11:22] They're going to want to work with you.

[00:11:23] They're going to grow with you.

[00:11:23] And anything outside of that, you give to your other family members or other MSP owners.

[00:11:27] And they're going to love you as well.

[00:11:29] So you need to take care of each other and not look at competition as a bad thing.

[00:11:32] It's a great thing for your clients.

[00:11:33] I love that spirit of community conversation right there because we used to have a lot of folks that we considered cooperators.

[00:11:39] So competition but cooperators too, right?

[00:11:42] They were people that filled the gaps.

[00:11:44] Like, Danny, when I was an MSP, we were really strong on the system side, but we weren't the Cisco guys.

[00:11:48] And you know what it cost to be a gold partner back in those days.

[00:11:52] You needed about a million dollars just in payroll to hit all the different certifications with the different people you needed.

[00:11:59] So we used to work with a very good group that had those skill sets on place, but we were very conscious.

[00:12:05] We're protecting this account for both of us.

[00:12:07] Who's the lead?

[00:12:08] You know, we'd be the system lead on their accounts.

[00:12:10] They'd be the network lead on our accounts.

[00:12:12] But we played under the same umbrella and protected each other from the outsiders that may be coming to take our turf.

[00:12:18] And it's really how we expanded out because then we said, you know what?

[00:12:21] Good.

[00:12:21] Let's get really good at the niche we're good at, the things that we do best at, and let's partner for this.

[00:12:27] Partner for telecom.

[00:12:29] Partner for these things and let those people excel with us.

[00:12:31] So I love that you've got that same mindset.

[00:12:34] And, you know, really, it's a win for all.

[00:12:37] Absolutely.

[00:12:38] You know, and I was thinking of another thing there, too, when you were talking about, you know, expansion and kind of get out of your own way, too.

[00:12:44] And it's really, you know, as an owner, you've got to sit there and create that brand awareness.

[00:12:49] And you talked about that.

[00:12:50] I used to say my job is to be in enough places that people locally know who we are and have heard our name.

[00:12:57] So when you, Danny, if you were my SDR, make a phone call and go, hey, I'm Brian Doyle and I'm from FandoTech.

[00:13:04] They would turn around and go, oh, yeah, I think I've heard of you guys.

[00:13:07] All you know there.

[00:13:09] There's being cold and there's being just sort of warm.

[00:13:11] Like, oh, I think I've heard of you guys before.

[00:13:13] Or, yeah, I think I've seen you guys somewhere, even if they haven't.

[00:13:16] Right.

[00:13:16] If they are there, you're halfway closer to a close on that call than I don't know who you guys are.

[00:13:21] Explain it to me.

[00:13:23] Absolutely.

[00:13:24] You're 100% correct.

[00:13:25] I want to implore our audience today.

[00:13:28] Get out there.

[00:13:30] People are going to buy from you first before they buy from your product, before they buy your solution, before they buy your own company.

[00:13:36] They buy from you first and you will help bridge that gap of trust to where now when the conversation comes to price, it's not an issue because you sold the value.

[00:13:47] You sold you.

[00:13:48] They like you.

[00:13:48] They trust you.

[00:13:49] They're going to purchase from you.

[00:13:50] So I'm going to encourage you guys.

[00:13:51] Go out there.

[00:13:52] I know right now if I pick up the phone and I say, look, I'm calling on behalf of Tony Robbins.

[00:13:56] I'm calling on behalf of Grant Cardone.

[00:13:58] I'm calling on behalf of whatever.

[00:14:00] And they go, oh, I know that person.

[00:14:01] Do you work for this person?

[00:14:03] Absolutely.

[00:14:03] I'm his personal assistant, personal secretary.

[00:14:05] They're going to more likely take that call.

[00:14:07] And so I want to encourage our audience members out there.

[00:14:09] Go to your conferences.

[00:14:09] Go to your roadshows.

[00:14:10] If you're a vendor and you're selling a product, you better be at every MSP conference because they're not going to buy from you if they don't see you.

[00:14:17] They have to see you.

[00:14:18] And the same thing with your clients.

[00:14:19] Go to all the industry events you can.

[00:14:21] Get out there.

[00:14:22] And what's going to happen when they hear about you, they're going to want to say, I like this person.

[00:14:27] I remember this person.

[00:14:28] I'm going to buy from this person.

[00:14:29] Think of anything you've ever bought.

[00:14:31] Plumbers, you know, anything there.

[00:14:33] Why did you buy it?

[00:14:34] Because they made an imprint on you somehow, whether that was advertising, social, conferences.

[00:14:39] The point is you've got to meet the people where they live.

[00:14:42] Do as much of it as you can.

[00:14:44] And don't be afraid that all of a sudden you're going to, you know, like some people are just humble.

[00:14:48] I mean, quite candidly, my biggest hangup when I was trying to get more out in front is it's about the team.

[00:14:52] It's not about me.

[00:14:54] But the whole team can't be there shoulder to shoulder trying to broadcast what your company is about.

[00:14:59] So somebody's got to take the front role.

[00:15:01] And, you know, I think MSP owners got to know you're doing the best for your business if you can also showcase a little bit about yourself.

[00:15:06] And it's okay if they don't know the name of your business.

[00:15:08] They're just like, oh, yeah, Danny's IT company is awesome.

[00:15:11] It doesn't matter.

[00:15:12] You know, we're not Microsoft.

[00:15:15] We're not Dell.

[00:15:16] Our brands are local, regional, or niche at best, right?

[00:15:20] Absolutely.

[00:15:21] Awesome.

[00:15:22] So anything else you want to add about the owner mindset before we segue a little bit into something that you put out there with your brother?

[00:15:30] Absolutely.

[00:15:31] One other thing.

[00:15:32] Never blame your employees without looking at yourself in the mirror first.

[00:15:35] I think a lot of times we say ourselves, man, our employee is just horrible.

[00:15:40] You have to ask yourself, were they competent and trained appropriately?

[00:15:43] Number one.

[00:15:44] And number two, did you have the right operational procedure in place that they were able to follow?

[00:15:49] If you don't have those two things in place, they're never going to have the same repeatable process.

[00:15:54] They're never going to have the same repeatable outcome.

[00:15:56] And they're not going to know your expectations the right way.

[00:15:59] So I want to encourage our owners out there.

[00:16:01] Before you start looking at employees and asking, why is this person on my team?

[00:16:05] Give yourself two things you need to remember.

[00:16:08] One, did I create the right standard operational procedure that they can follow all the time?

[00:16:12] And did I create the right process and tools to train them up so they can do the job effectively?

[00:16:18] If you don't do those things right there, you're the problem.

[00:16:21] So let's stay on that for a minute, Danny.

[00:16:23] And this kind of gets into what you're doing in life a little bit right now as well, right?

[00:16:28] Absolutely.

[00:16:28] When you look at that and the training piece, I think is the biggest one.

[00:16:32] And I think one of the toughest areas is sales in the MSP space to train.

[00:16:37] Because again, most technical founders were not salespeople.

[00:16:41] They built their business off the backs of referrals, strength in networking and relationships,

[00:16:46] but didn't really have those active cold callings.

[00:16:49] Then they go hire employee number one, salesperson number one, give them a phone, give them an email address and say, go get them.

[00:16:56] And then when it doesn't work out, they blame it on the sales rep.

[00:17:00] So I'd love to hear a little bit about how you're trying to solve that problem for the MSP owner.

[00:17:06] Absolutely.

[00:17:06] Great question.

[00:17:07] I hear from MSPs all the time.

[00:17:09] I hired an outsourced marketing firm.

[00:17:12] It didn't work.

[00:17:12] I spent way too much money, didn't get any leads or I got leads, but they're poor quality leads.

[00:17:17] I hired sales reps.

[00:17:18] I didn't know what type of quota to put them on, what type of commission plan.

[00:17:20] So I just said, here's what I think I could bring in.

[00:17:22] So therefore, this is your quota.

[00:17:24] And three months in, you had enough time to learn the MSP space, but you haven't made any sales.

[00:17:30] You haven't closed any deals.

[00:17:31] What's going on?

[00:17:32] Why am I paying you?

[00:17:33] I hear it all the time.

[00:17:35] You're absolutely correct.

[00:17:36] And what I tell them is you got to keep it simple.

[00:17:40] You just got to keep it simple.

[00:17:42] And when you talk to a sales rep, you have to let them understand that this is going to take time.

[00:17:48] I'm going to do my part.

[00:17:49] My part is I'm going to build up the brand of my company.

[00:17:51] My part is I'm going to make sure that people see our logo.

[00:17:53] They understand who we are ahead of time so that when you make a call, I don't want you to sell.

[00:17:58] I want you to connect.

[00:17:59] It's all about connecting using these soft-based skills.

[00:18:02] You can download scripts all day long.

[00:18:05] Here's my opening script.

[00:18:06] Here's how I get people to say yes.

[00:18:07] That's not important unless you learn how to connect.

[00:18:10] And I want you to teach your sales rep just to connect with people.

[00:18:14] And if you can connect with people, they're going to say, all right, tell me more.

[00:18:18] And that's all you need.

[00:18:19] You need to hear this three words.

[00:18:21] Tell me more.

[00:18:23] And you don't have to close on the first sale.

[00:18:25] Get a client and say, tell me more.

[00:18:27] And you got them hooked.

[00:18:28] And that's all I tell the owners.

[00:18:29] That's all I tell the sales reps.

[00:18:31] Let's just start there.

[00:18:32] And we'll come back and do the other phases later.

[00:18:34] But just right there, connect with people and get them to say, tell me more.

[00:18:38] Well, I think that's great because it really is.

[00:18:41] There's a number of sales that have to be made on the way to the sale, right?

[00:18:45] First is tell me more.

[00:18:47] Then it's grant me a meeting.

[00:18:48] Then it's give me the opportunity to now bring you a proposal.

[00:18:52] Now we've got the proposal out.

[00:18:54] Let me get an opportunity to get feedback on that proposal and not ghosted so we can see if we can go to the next step, right?

[00:18:59] There's all these little microtransactions that happen on the way to the big transaction.

[00:19:05] And a lot of MSP owners, I won't say they don't have the patience for it.

[00:19:09] They just expect it to happen faster, right?

[00:19:11] So I'd love to get your opinion because this has been a hot topic on this show in the past.

[00:19:17] Assuming your sales rep is doing their prospecting the way they're supposed to, right?

[00:19:21] They know how to pick up a phone.

[00:19:23] They know how to do the tactical steps.

[00:19:25] How long does it take you, do you think, in today's era for a sales rep really to become a productive member of your team?

[00:19:32] Brian, first of all, I'm going to say great question.

[00:19:35] And I think a lot of times we need to reset the mindset and expectation for business owners that when you get a sales rep in, I always say give it about two to four weeks to give that individual an understanding of your business and of the MSP space.

[00:19:52] So if they don't understand your culture, they don't understand your business, they don't understand what your strengths are, they don't understand your vision, your value statement, it means nothing.

[00:20:01] It's got to be very important where they internalize it, they adopt it, and they feel it, and they believe it, and that's who they are when they make their call.

[00:20:07] So it's very important to give a couple weeks to understand the culture, understand your vision, understand the company and what it looks like, what it sounds like, what it feels like.

[00:20:14] And then a couple weeks to kind of understand a little bit about the MSP space.

[00:20:18] Now, I only say a couple weeks because what's more important to a client is not the technology, it's do you understand them, do you get them, do you understand them?

[00:20:26] And that's why I strongly stress MSP owners, please focus on a vertical, because as soon as you focus on a vertical, the sooner your sales rep can understand the terminology, can understand how to follow the news, what's happening in the industry, so they can try to build that relationship and bridge that gap of lack of trust.

[00:20:42] And once you do all that, everything else is what I call a lot simpler, and you're going to start seeing the deals in your pipeline start to close sooner than later.

[00:20:52] And now your job as CEO is to go back to the pipeline and ask yourself, how did this lead come in?

[00:20:56] Was it through the website?

[00:20:57] Was it through the chatbot?

[00:20:58] Was it through a referral?

[00:20:59] And can you yourself fine-tune it a little bit easier and make the ability for the client to say, I want to know more, I want to know more, or I think I'm sold, I just need to hear a physical voice to move to the next level.

[00:21:09] So it's a combination of the owner and the sales rep kind of working really well together in that specific vertical with that specific ICP to bridge that gap of trust.

[00:21:17] And I love that part about the owner's responsibility in this too, right?

[00:21:22] Because you mentioned Grant Cardone, it sounds like you listen to some of the 10X disciples out there.

[00:21:27] And what they always say is, find the thing that's working and 10X it, right?

[00:21:34] And I think a lot of MSP owners are like, oh, we're starting to get some inbound leads.

[00:21:37] So now I'm going to work on going to do trade shows, or now I'm going to go do this instead of going, okay, we're getting some website leads.

[00:21:44] We're doing something right there.

[00:21:46] How do we expand that and get more, right?

[00:21:48] So I love that part about the owner's responsibility because sales is a shared responsibility.

[00:21:53] It is.

[00:21:54] And while your SDR, your BDR might be the catalyst to make it happen, everybody has to be playing their part to get that sale in the door.

[00:22:02] So good stuff.

[00:22:03] Absolutely.

[00:22:04] Absolutely.

[00:22:05] Absolutely.

[00:22:05] So maybe before we shift into a little bit about your book, let's talk though what a customer can expect if they want to learn more about App Meetup while we're on this topic.

[00:22:15] Absolutely.

[00:22:16] Go to our website at meetup.com.

[00:22:18] What you're going to find out is we create programs specifically for the MSP owner.

[00:22:22] Our job is number one to focus on your mindset.

[00:22:24] We want to give you that abundance mindset, not the like black mindset.

[00:22:28] From there, we're going to find out what works and we're going to build out a repeatable automated standard operational procedure that every person in the organization can follow.

[00:22:37] And that includes your vision, bringing it down to individual metrics and goals for every employee.

[00:22:41] And that way you don't have to micromanage your employees.

[00:22:43] They know exactly all the things they have to do every single day, what metrics, what tasks in order to be able to hit a specific outcome.

[00:22:51] When everybody understands their role and they understand exactly what they do every day to be repeatable, then you know how to make your money.

[00:22:59] And that's really what we're all about at App Meetup because we used to be in your shoes.

[00:23:03] We understood the fear of losing our best client and now having to let employees go to the abundance mindset to where we were able to find what works and 10X it.

[00:23:13] And you're absolutely correct.

[00:23:13] We are 10X disciples.

[00:23:15] We believe in it.

[00:23:16] It works.

[00:23:16] And we teach that MSP business owner how to do the same thing.

[00:23:20] Awesome.

[00:23:20] So, guys, you know, get out there.

[00:23:22] If you're really struggling with that process piece of it, really struggling on onboarding,

[00:23:26] I definitely encourage you to go to AppMeetup.com for those watching on YouTube.

[00:23:30] We've got that up on the screen right now.

[00:23:32] But, Danny, let's shift gears to another passion project of yours, which, you know,

[00:23:36] obviously I think everybody's getting a sense that you love to educate and you love to share knowledge.

[00:23:40] But you recently wrote a book with your twin brother.

[00:23:43] Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:23:45] Absolutely.

[00:23:46] One of the funny things about having an identical twin is that you're always going to compete.

[00:23:51] And one person is going to be better than the other person in something.

[00:23:54] And my technical twin brother has always been better at speaking.

[00:23:57] And that's why I think I was a better engineer.

[00:23:59] I don't need to speak.

[00:24:00] I'll just go in the back room.

[00:24:01] I'll fix something.

[00:24:02] I'll work on something.

[00:24:03] My first job as a network engineer, I was actually doing dance web division multiplexing,

[00:24:08] taking electrical and optical and converting it.

[00:24:10] And that was so fun to me.

[00:24:11] Brain just melted.

[00:24:13] And that was so fun to me.

[00:24:14] I used to design central office systems in the telecom companies.

[00:24:18] But one day, my brother said, why don't you just share a little bit?

[00:24:23] Speak up at your meetings.

[00:24:24] Say something.

[00:24:25] And as soon as I started doing that, I realized I don't know what to say.

[00:24:29] I don't know how to say it.

[00:24:30] I don't know what to do.

[00:24:31] And he started giving me pointers.

[00:24:32] And pretty soon I realized there are a lot of technical people who are more comfortable

[00:24:37] speaking with their arms crossed, speaking with their back to the audience, just looking

[00:24:40] at the board or whatever it may be.

[00:24:43] And I start realizing that's not inviting.

[00:24:46] That's actually pushing people away.

[00:24:47] How do I invite people in?

[00:24:48] And that's when my brother started giving me these tips.

[00:24:51] And I started looking at the technical field.

[00:24:53] How can I help technical owners, technical co-founders to be able to articulate their value

[00:24:59] in a way that the audience can understand?

[00:25:01] And then how can I use nonverbal communication?

[00:25:04] Because 70% of communication is nonverbal in order to get people to lean in and say, tell

[00:25:08] me more.

[00:25:08] And so we wrote this book called Talk It Up, A Guide to Successful Public Speaking to give

[00:25:13] you step-by-step thoughts on processes.

[00:25:15] Thank you very much for holding up the book, Brian, on how to become more confident in

[00:25:20] speaking.

[00:25:21] Yes, reading this book, putting this into practice can prepare you so that the next time

[00:25:27] you get up to speak, whether you're at a conference, whether you're speaking to your

[00:25:30] employees in the boardroom, or whether you're at a meet and greet, it's going to give you

[00:25:34] the tools you need to feel confident and to be able to showcase who you are and what

[00:25:38] you believe in.

[00:25:39] And I think it's fair to say, too, some people are really afraid of publicly speaking,

[00:25:45] even in a small situation like a networking format.

[00:25:49] And those uncomfortable moments can be almost paralyzing for people that have skills and

[00:25:53] really something important to share, too.

[00:25:55] So I thank you for putting together a book that helps people understand, this is all you

[00:26:00] need to do.

[00:26:01] This is why you need to do it.

[00:26:04] And some of the greatest speakers I've seen now were people that 20 years ago were

[00:26:08] engineers that wouldn't come out of their shell.

[00:26:10] But once they realized that they got past their imposter syndrome or whatever they were

[00:26:14] facing that was precluding them, now they got out there and said, look, I've got a

[00:26:19] message.

[00:26:20] I'm going to stay in my lane, but I'm going to expand on this message and say this to as

[00:26:23] many people as I can.

[00:26:25] And I think that's a big part, too.

[00:26:26] Don't feel like you have to be unique in every setting.

[00:26:29] Take your core message.

[00:26:31] Bring it to as many places you can.

[00:26:33] Most of the time, there's different people sitting across from you in the room.

[00:26:36] So good stuff.

[00:26:37] Love it.

[00:26:38] Absolutely.

[00:26:38] Thank you very much for showcasing the book.

[00:26:41] And I'm so glad.

[00:26:41] Again, for those of you that are listening to the podcast, we're going to drop that link

[00:26:46] in our show notes, too.

[00:26:47] So if you do want to take a look at that, you can get it.

[00:26:49] Those on YouTube, it'll be there as well.

[00:26:50] But of course, you saw the cover.

[00:26:52] And we certainly encourage you to grab that.

[00:26:57] I'm reading it right now because one of my rocks for 2025 is to double up my sales or double

[00:27:03] up my speaking engagements.

[00:27:05] So good luck for the masters.

[00:27:07] You have a great speaking voice, Brian.

[00:27:10] And you have great personality.

[00:27:11] Last year at the IT Nation Pitch Competition, when you got up there to speak and you were

[00:27:15] able to win second place, that showcased that people want to hear what you have to say,

[00:27:20] that what you have, the product you have, they need.

[00:27:23] And so I'm so happy and glad to hear that because I think you have the right personality.

[00:27:27] You have the right body language.

[00:27:28] You have the right voice.

[00:27:30] It is very inviting, by the way.

[00:27:31] Very inviting.

[00:27:32] And I tell people all the time, find out what your baggage is that you're carrying that's

[00:27:36] keeping you from doing it.

[00:27:37] Mine was, while I can do these things, I don't like to be the center of attention, which is

[00:27:42] so funny because now I run podcasts and things like that.

[00:27:45] It's not my thing.

[00:27:46] It's always been a team game for me.

[00:27:48] I only grew up playing team sports.

[00:27:49] I played football.

[00:27:50] I played baseball.

[00:27:51] I did not play solo.

[00:27:53] Well, I guess I golf, but I'm not very good at that.

[00:27:56] But the reality is, it was always about the team and where I could contribute and do my

[00:28:02] part to make the team win.

[00:28:04] And I realized here at VCIO Toolbox, my biggest part on the team is being the champion that's

[00:28:09] taking the brand to market.

[00:28:11] So now I have to reevaluate my goals, change how you do it.

[00:28:14] And I encourage MSP owners to realize that too.

[00:28:17] You are the face of that company and you owe it to your team.

[00:28:20] You owe it to the people that you've already taken on the burden of paying their salaries

[00:28:24] and making sure their families are fed and say, how can I make sure they're fed a little

[00:28:28] bit better?

[00:28:29] And really, I'm finding getting out there is doing it and looking and watching people like

[00:28:33] you and your brother who have been doing it for a long time and others that are out

[00:28:38] there speaking and trying to learn, what are they doing differently?

[00:28:40] And you really realize they're just taking a core message to the streets, staying in their

[00:28:44] lane and making sure they say it many times.

[00:28:46] Absolutely.

[00:28:48] So anyhow, we're getting near the end of our time period here, Danny, and I want to allow

[00:28:52] some time for some final closing thoughts.

[00:28:55] But listeners, this podcast will be available anywhere that you download your podcast.

[00:28:59] Of course, we have it up on YouTube.

[00:29:01] If you're watching right now, that's scrolling down at the bottom of our screen.

[00:29:05] Head over to our YouTube channel, MSP Business School or at MSP Business School, because these

[00:29:10] interviews will be up there forever.

[00:29:12] And if you don't catch Danny now, catch him later with me.

[00:29:14] This has been a lot of fun for me, too.

[00:29:17] But we're heading into the final part of our selling season, right?

[00:29:22] Summer is almost over.

[00:29:23] You and I are recording this at the end of August right now.

[00:29:26] And we're heading into where it's time to put on our big boy pants and get out there and

[00:29:30] go make some money.

[00:29:32] Let's talk about maybe your thoughts about how to close 2024 with a bang.

[00:30:05] Absolutely.

[00:30:07] Go and ask, hey, can I speak?

[00:30:08] Can I share my story?

[00:30:10] Being on the podcast.

[00:30:11] Join my podcast.

[00:30:12] Join Brian's podcast.

[00:30:13] Get out there.

[00:30:14] Be omnipresent.

[00:30:15] And then if you have a specific ICP, you want to be at all those events.

[00:30:19] The more people see you, the more they get to know you, the more they're able to close

[00:30:23] that gap of trust.

[00:30:24] It makes it so much easier to buy it.

[00:30:26] Maybe not now, but maybe in the future.

[00:30:29] But I like this time right now because sometimes people have to blow their budget by the end of

[00:30:32] the year.

[00:30:33] Otherwise, they won't get it next year.

[00:30:34] So number one, be omnipresent.

[00:30:36] Number two, know your numbers.

[00:30:38] Why is that important?

[00:30:39] You need to know your numbers as an MSP and your sales reps better know their numbers.

[00:30:44] And what I mean by know your numbers, if you're a sales rep, how many more calls do I need

[00:30:48] to make per day to get to somebody to say, yes, I want to do a demo or yes, I would like

[00:30:52] to learn a little bit more.

[00:30:53] How many more of those demos does it take to get to someone to say, yes, send me a quote?

[00:30:58] And how many of those quotes get to a close win paid contract?

[00:31:02] If you don't know those numbers, you're not going to push yourself a little bit harder.

[00:31:07] And if you know your numbers as a sales rep, how many more calls you're going to make,

[00:31:10] and you know your quota and your commission, you can make multipliers, you're going to

[00:31:13] work that much more because you want to make more money.

[00:31:16] And as a business owner, you have to know how many more events do I need to go to?

[00:31:19] How many more people do I need to get referrals from?

[00:31:22] Where do I get my best referrals?

[00:31:24] How do I get my best leads?

[00:31:25] If you don't know those little things, you're going to fall out.

[00:31:28] And if you're not looking at your CRM, you're not looking at your dashboard every week

[00:31:31] to see where things are at in your pipeline, you're going to miss out.

[00:31:34] So that's number two.

[00:31:35] And the third thing I want to tell people is know your numbers for your clients.

[00:31:40] What do their clients care about?

[00:31:42] What do they value?

[00:31:43] What is beneficial to them?

[00:31:45] And then hit about it, talk about it as much as possible.

[00:31:48] Because the more you do that, the more they're going to value you.

[00:31:50] And the more they're going to say, you get me, you know me, and I want to work with you.

[00:31:54] So if you can do those things and do it really well, the last step is very simple.

[00:31:59] Your pathway to sell.

[00:32:01] You find what works and you 10X it.

[00:32:04] So if you do those four things and those four steps, I guarantee that you're going to end

[00:32:09] 2024 with a bang.

[00:32:10] And then 2025 is going to start skyrocketing.

[00:32:13] So, you know, I challenge you, listener, to make this a 90-day sprint.

[00:32:17] Really take those things that Danny just said, build them into a 90-day sprint.

[00:32:20] Because that's really basically what we've got until the Thanksgiving holiday hits.

[00:32:24] And people start tuning out on us.

[00:32:26] Although I will agree with you, there's a lot of hardware money to be gained during that

[00:32:28] end of the year period too.

[00:32:31] Before we wrap up today, I want to also, I'm going to speak for you now, Danny, and say this.

[00:32:35] Listener, if you think you aren't ready to be a guest on a podcast, you're wrong.

[00:32:40] Those of us that are doing podcasts, we need you too.

[00:32:43] You know, your stories are the ones that make it different.

[00:32:45] Everybody's got a unique way that they came into this industry.

[00:32:48] And for my listeners, I'll tell you this.

[00:32:50] Every time you get one of those fireside chats where you're only hearing from me, that's because

[00:32:54] I didn't have a guest that week.

[00:32:55] So we're looking for them.

[00:32:57] Please reach out to your podcasters.

[00:32:59] Build your brand.

[00:33:00] Get out there.

[00:33:00] We're here to help you.

[00:33:03] And, you know, Danny, I can't thank you enough.

[00:33:06] You and your brother have both been wonderful helping me.

[00:33:09] Coaching me in different areas personally.

[00:33:12] And certainly I value the relationship.

[00:33:14] Love that we're doing some cool things together.

[00:33:16] And I wish you the best as you close out 2024.

[00:33:20] Thank you.

[00:33:21] All right.

[00:33:22] We'll see you again next week, listener.

[00:33:24] Danny, thank you for joining me and have a great day.