PitchIT 24 | Doug Kreitzberg, Seedpod Cyber

[00:00:08] Hey everybody, welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School. I'm Brian Doyle as always and we are heading into our third and final Pitch It conversation. We've got the last finalist and this by no means means he's going to be the third place winner even though he's partnered up with the third place coach.

[00:00:30] You know, we're going to make sure that Doug gets great visibility today. And the reason I feel I could say that Matt, we've known each other a long time. We can have a lot of fun together. But all kidding aside, I want to thank Doug Kreitzberg for joining us today. He's one of the finalists with Seedpod Cyber and he's going to tell you a little bit more about what he's doing. As always, I've got Sean Lardo here. As I said last week, Sean's just becoming a regular man. I'm going to give him the show next week. You can just take it over at this point.

[00:00:59] I mean, it can only go up from here, I figure.

[00:01:01] That's it, right? You know, it can only improve.

[00:01:04] Or just say a prayer and let's see what happens.

[00:01:07] Yeah, maybe, you know, we'll see. I mean, I'm loving the shirt you got on today, you know, I mean, you know, bringing the mean girls to life. So that means we got to bring a little edge to today's show, right?

[00:01:18] I would agree.

[00:01:19] Especially since we got Matt coming from halfway around the world today and Matt is on vacation in Japan and we got to give him props for coming and joining us while he's on vacation.

[00:01:30] I'll take care of it for you, Sean. I'll talk to Buddha tomorrow.

[00:01:35] I appreciate that. I like that once you start recording, I don't know if his video looks distorted, but it looks like he's on the Witness Protection Program, which is great.

[00:01:44] Perfect.

[00:01:45] And when he talks, it's dubbed also like it's literally Kung Fu Theater.

[00:01:52] Well, you didn't know, Sean, but that was me hitting the pixelation button.

[00:01:59] You know, after our sake conversation before the show today, I'm worried about Matt, you know, and what he might do to himself during the show.

[00:02:07] So we're going to hide his face.

[00:02:09] Good call. Very good call.

[00:02:12] But anyhow, guys, we are heading into the, you know, we're getting close to IT Nation and we're getting close to the finals.

[00:02:20] As we're recording this, I think we're less than three weeks away and it's getting exciting.

[00:02:27] It's getting competitive, which I love.

[00:02:29] You know, I love seeing these guys spar with one another.

[00:02:32] Doug, let's throw it to you first, man.

[00:02:34] You know, how are you feeling as we're getting closer to this?

[00:02:36] Oh, I'm feeling great.

[00:02:39] You know, the well, first of all, you know, obviously the work working on with the clients every day helps me hone what I'm actually going to be saying in a couple of weeks.

[00:02:52] So that's helping.

[00:02:54] And then working with Matthew on the actual pitch is, you know, and really keying in on what is going to hit home.

[00:03:05] And we only have five minutes, as you know.

[00:03:08] So making sure that really culling it down to throw the big rocks out there, what's really important about what we're doing and how we're helping both MSPs and clients and just continuing to shape that down and making that crystal clear.

[00:03:24] So been working on that as well.

[00:03:27] So I'm feeling really good about where we are.

[00:03:31] Obviously, your pitch had to be in really good order anyway, or you wouldn't be here at this stage.

[00:03:36] And I think that's one of the fun parts about this area here.

[00:03:41] It's taking what obviously already got you into the game, but then really just refining it enough.

[00:03:46] So you're, you know, and fine tuning it so you're really crisp when you hit the stage.

[00:03:50] And yeah, that's what it's all about.

[00:03:53] Absolutely.

[00:03:53] Absolutely.

[00:03:53] And what Matthew has really been helpful with is putting me in the mind of an MSP and kind of making sure that I'm addressing that.

[00:04:06] So that everything that I'm saying is something that an MSP sitting there is going to get and understand and relate to and, you know, is speaking to what he or she wants here.

[00:04:19] And that's what's been very helpful.

[00:04:21] And yes, you know, the pitch that I did got me here, but I think it's going to be 10 times better when we get to, you know, IT Nation.

[00:04:33] So really thanks to how Matthew is helping me see this more and more through the eyes of an MSP.

[00:04:41] Something to add to this, though, I like is cyber insurance.

[00:04:47] There's nothing sexy about it, right?

[00:04:48] Right, right.

[00:04:50] And I wouldn't say that.

[00:04:52] We're talking to you yet, Matthew.

[00:04:54] Wait your turn.

[00:04:55] And that's sort of where my point is going, right?

[00:04:58] Is but on the surface, it's not.

[00:05:00] It's not like the AI cybersecurity conversation that people want to have, right?

[00:05:05] Right, right.

[00:05:06] Where Matthew is in the world of cybersecurity, which is the sexier topic the last several years, right?

[00:05:13] Right, right.

[00:05:14] Same rules apply with Brian, too.

[00:05:16] I mean, it's QBR stuff.

[00:05:18] Nothing sexy about it, right?

[00:05:19] It is a utilitarian need.

[00:05:22] Regulatory compliance.

[00:05:23] Woo.

[00:05:23] I can really keep you guys enthralled.

[00:05:25] You know what I mean?

[00:05:26] Right.

[00:05:27] But, you know, I will say this.

[00:05:28] There is something sexy about getting your claim paid in full, right?

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:31] Because that's one of the biggest challenges out there today is how we don't get carve-outs, how we make sure that we're not getting our claims denied because we weren't quite forthright enough.

[00:05:41] Right.

[00:05:42] Usually erroneously, not intentionally, right?

[00:05:44] You know, there's a lot of things going on in the cyber world that are very concerning to an end user.

[00:05:49] And certainly somebody like you, Doug, can bring that to bear, you know, and help educate as well.

[00:05:54] Absolutely.

[00:05:55] And there's also, and this is where Matthew is really helping me shape, there's something sexy for an MSP to make money.

[00:06:06] And, you know, by positioning your products and solutions in conjunction with the insurance, there's an opportunity for growth.

[00:06:15] And we'll show how that works through our model as we go through here.

[00:06:20] So that's really where a lot of, you know, a lot of the conversations have been is take what you're doing, Doug, and really strip away the stuff that doesn't speak directly to that MSP and what they want and need.

[00:06:42] And at the end of the day, it's a fantastic product.

[00:06:45] And if you just speak to it, you know, they're going to come, so to speak.

[00:06:49] So, Matt, maybe you want to share a little bit about how you're helping out and where you're seeing the focus.

[00:06:55] And, you know, obviously use this as some coaching time, too.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:07:00] I mean, we've gone through the presentation multiple times.

[00:07:04] Doug's presented to me at least six times at this point.

[00:07:08] And we keep honing it down and timing it and pulling out stuff and putting in different stuff.

[00:07:14] But as Doug said, I mean, in all seriousness, I think this is a very sexy product.

[00:07:19] And I'll explain why, though.

[00:07:21] It's taking an MSP who's having trouble having a conversation with their clients about cyber liability insurance, which, by the way, every one of them should be no matter what.

[00:07:33] But it gives them a way to, A, go talk to them.

[00:07:37] B, know that they're set up to help them.

[00:07:40] And C, they can look at them straight in the face and say, if you do what I'm telling you, I will be able to guarantee that your claim gets paid if there's ever a problem.

[00:07:52] That is a strong statement.

[00:07:54] I mean, that is just, that's huge.

[00:07:57] And being able to go to a customer as an MSP and say that, I don't know.

[00:08:02] To me, that's sexy as heck because I'm getting in the door, having a conversation that I'm not having, finding stuff that I can charge for to get them in line, charge them on going to keep them in line, and be able to give them a pledge that things will get paid out if it's ever needed to be done.

[00:08:20] I just think that's an incredible business model and an incredible business move.

[00:08:28] Well, I agree with the fact that when you look at all the different insurances out in the marketplace today, there's very few that can really save your business.

[00:08:36] Like, you know, that's the reality of cyber, right?

[00:08:38] You got car insurance, your car gets crashed, you get a new car, but those things could have been solved anyway.

[00:08:43] The reality is there are a lot of businesses, especially when they're small and emerging, that without cyber insurance would probably not survive a security event.

[00:08:52] And, you know, to me, that's one of the key things that cyber insurance really does for all of us, that we could all look as sexy as business owners, right?

[00:09:00] Like, I need to lose my livelihood tomorrow because it's something that's outside my span of control.

[00:09:05] Right, right.

[00:09:06] And, you know, and...

[00:09:12] No, I was going to say, it goes back to something we've been preaching for a long time.

[00:09:16] You've got proactive and reactive, right?

[00:09:19] So, I mean, you got proactive tested to make sure that it's done what it's supposed to do and it stays that way and then reactive.

[00:09:27] And one of the things that, you know, Doug's product does is it helps an MSP through the proactive.

[00:09:35] So, if the reactive ever does come into play because, you know, there's no such thing as protection, they're covered.

[00:09:43] They're taken care of.

[00:09:44] But in the meantime, giving the MSP the ability and the tools to be able to make sure proactively everything is taken care of and everything is up to par.

[00:09:54] However, that's a big deal nowadays because I think people spend a lot of time right of boom, which is the reactive stuff, EDR, MDR, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:10:03] And not enough time left of boom, which is the proactive stuff.

[00:10:08] Right, right.

[00:10:10] And I think the other thing that left of boom that doesn't get addressed a lot is how do you talk about cyber risk?

[00:10:20] How do you help businesses even understand what it is?

[00:10:25] And, you know, businesses understand the majority of all the other risks that they face because they're experts in their field.

[00:10:33] They've been doing it for years.

[00:10:35] But cyber is something that's new.

[00:10:38] And for some, you know, business people, it's scary or they just want to leave it to the IT folks.

[00:10:49] And yet, so it's up to the IT folks to be able to communicate that risk in a way that the business people could understand.

[00:10:56] And that's where, again, insurance can play a role because we can provide.

[00:11:01] And what we do is we provide the MSPs information on what the cost of risk is.

[00:11:06] What, you know, what are you up against if you decide to do nothing in terms of dollars and cents?

[00:11:13] You know, the universal language of business.

[00:11:16] So that helps that business person make a decision.

[00:11:19] It also helps the MSP be able to position the products and services that they're providing in that context of, you know, the overall cost of risk so that they can make that sale at the end of the day.

[00:11:33] And protect that moves from the understanding the risk to how are we going to prevent it on that left of boom side too.

[00:11:41] You know, but that's a big topic of conversation here is that's great now.

[00:11:48] However, how do you prepare an MSP to talk about that doesn't want to talk about business, wants to talk about gadgets and widgets?

[00:11:54] And, you know, because that is a, and this is a, this is a Brian Doyle even experience as well because same rules apply, right?

[00:12:01] It's a, so what do you, it's great if you have a product that can help them.

[00:12:06] But historically speaking in this industry, vendors have done a poor job at preparing MSPs for what to say about what their product means to their, their offer, right?

[00:12:15] And MSP has done an even worse job talking to end users about what, what their service offering consists of.

[00:12:20] So how do you, so how do you help them?

[00:12:22] We, what, what we do is, is we take the underwriting information.

[00:12:27] Well, we do a number of things.

[00:12:29] So we have something called an insurance checkup, which takes, takes the client's insurance policy.

[00:12:37] If they have insurance, it takes the underwriting information or the technical information that the MSP provides as well as that we obtain through our ASIO integration, as an example here, and other information we get from the client and presents a risk analysis.

[00:12:56] So it really, we present a, information back in, in English and that's readable, that can, that can be really helped.

[00:13:04] It becomes almost a script, if you will, for the MSP to be able to communicate intelligently to the client.

[00:13:11] You know, here's, here's what you're looking at and here are some things that you should be doing.

[00:13:17] And here's a way in which we can not only help you be insurable in the right order, but also that, that you can be secure and maintain, you know, your reputation and, and the, the, the business on a go forward basis.

[00:13:31] So that, that's one example.

[00:13:34] We also provide, we have, we call it insure ed, which is education, you know, kind of snackable education on cyber insurance that can either be presented to the, for the client's use or, or by the account managers within the MSP.

[00:13:51] We provide weekly, we provide weekly, I mean, monthly eBooks, twice a month blogs that can be white labeled on risk management subjects.

[00:14:00] We also, you know, I spend a lot of time presenting with the MSP on webinars, as well as, you know, general kind of podcasts in a format like this, where we're talking about cyber insurance and cyber security to really help them kind of be able to connect the dots in a way.

[00:14:25] And we're certainly, you know, on the phone with the clients themselves, as they go through the underwriting process, identifying the gaps and bringing that MSP in at that point of insurance discussion to say, hey, they're missing this EDR solution, or they don't have the backup configured properly.

[00:14:46] They really want to get that saving on the insurance.

[00:14:50] So, you know, this is your opportunity to have that conversation.

[00:14:53] So we're creating those moments in, you know, you know, in that regard as well.

[00:15:03] A big question always comes up for every technology that comes out.

[00:15:08] How do you play with others?

[00:15:10] You know, how are you, as far as other vendors are concerned, you know, because in my eyes, especially for you all, the cyber insurance part is the top of the food chain now, right?

[00:15:21] Right.

[00:15:21] You're dictating terms.

[00:15:23] And the terms, and then the next phase down is the governance compliance.

[00:15:27] And then the next phase down below that is the technologies or the service operators, or whatever it may be, right?

[00:15:34] So how are you, so you literally are so significant in that.

[00:15:39] How do you work with all the other tiers?

[00:15:42] Yeah, it's a great question.

[00:15:43] We're agnostic as far as the solutions go.

[00:15:48] You know, early on as I was putting this program together, I had a focus group of MSPs.

[00:15:55] And I initially had, we were going to put together these solutions and the MSPs were going to sell the whole package.

[00:16:01] And I just got, I almost got shut out of, kicked out of the focus group when I started talking about that because they said, no, I don't want an insurance carrier telling me what products and solutions to offer.

[00:16:14] I make those choices.

[00:16:16] And what we do is we focus on standards.

[00:16:19] So we base against CIS.

[00:16:21] That's the guidelines we use for underwriting.

[00:16:24] And we don't talk about, or we don't dictate solutions.

[00:16:28] So that's really up to the MSP.

[00:16:30] And I think long-term, that strategy is the right way to play it.

[00:16:36] And what's concerning, and I find somewhat humorous, but more concerning is that insurance carriers are now beginning to try to not only dictate what solutions, but create their own solutions to use.

[00:16:52] One carrier that I won't mention, I just saw yesterday, got an award for best MDR solution.

[00:17:01] And I don't know who awarded them that because it wasn't anyone that I, you know, any organization that I knew.

[00:17:07] But that's what we're beginning to see is carriers beginning to kind of, you know, start to get into a space.

[00:17:16] And they're not really long-term prepared or willing to be in the technology space, but they're trying to get into it.

[00:17:24] And that creates challenges for the client, but certainly challenges for the MSP as well.

[00:17:32] So, okay.

[00:17:34] So who should be the awarders of any kind of cybersecurity technology awards on this is great?

[00:17:41] Like, should it come from you all?

[00:17:43] Should it come from ConnectWise and Kaseya?

[00:17:46] Or should it come from, like, you know, like, I think of, like, the J.D. Power Award, right?

[00:17:50] Which I think is not bogus anymore because every commercial I watch, they have J.D. Power Awards for something.

[00:17:55] So, and one thing we know about a lot of awards is they're paid for.

[00:17:58] Let's just be honest.

[00:18:00] I don't care what anybody says.

[00:18:01] All these ones you see come out, the only ones that are true to form are people that speak on stage and win a speaking award from votes at that time.

[00:18:09] That's really, otherwise, a lot of it is paid for in the long run, you know?

[00:18:14] Now, there are certain things, like, that are evaluated that are given on merit based off of, like, five guiding principles maybe, right?

[00:18:25] Are you secure?

[00:18:26] Do you integrate?

[00:18:28] Well, do you provide a holistic journey and seamless integrations?

[00:18:33] Do, you know, stuff like that.

[00:18:34] Is your service 24-7 up to snuff?

[00:18:36] You know, those are, I get those.

[00:18:37] But in this world, who should be the one doing it?

[00:18:40] Would you guys be the ones that would be the auditor?

[00:18:42] No, I don't think so.

[00:18:43] You know, and the, well, there's a couple of things.

[00:18:47] One, there's an entity called Underwriting Laboratories.

[00:18:52] Underwriting Laboratories goes through and they evaluate, you know, mostly electronic appliances and, you know, more on a safety side as well as a usability side.

[00:19:02] Ultimately, there should be some type of third party, you know, separate that perhaps is evaluating these.

[00:19:10] I mean, we do have Gartner and you have Forrester and you have MITRE, which is doing some work, which are trying to evaluate.

[00:19:19] And, you know, I guess we can debate on whether those are paid for or, you know, it's a pay-to-play or some other, you know, kind of game, whether they're gamed as well.

[00:19:31] Right.

[00:19:31] But I don't think, you know, and you certainly don't want the insurance industry voting on things that they're creating themselves.

[00:19:40] Because what does, you know, I create the SeedPod XYZ security product and I vote it number one.

[00:19:48] That doesn't make any sense either.

[00:19:51] I think, well, obviously there's an element of money required to get in front of people in general.

[00:19:56] Nobody knows you exist.

[00:19:58] So there's a difference between investment to create awareness of you and your product compared to we just are the biggest spender.

[00:20:06] And because I'm a cigar guy and Brian, you appreciate this, Cigar Fiction Auto is game.

[00:20:10] When they do their top 100 cigars, the fact that the Series V, you know, Levo Series V is always in the top two.

[00:20:18] Yeah, it's a good cigar.

[00:20:19] Great cigar.

[00:20:20] It's more of a day-to-day, right?

[00:20:21] But it's not a fine wine cigar, right?

[00:20:25] No, exactly.

[00:20:26] And it's, but they always are in the top two or three.

[00:20:28] And that shows you the game, the gamification involved in that.

[00:20:31] But they still had to spend the money because you should invest in the industry and the community you're in for exposure.

[00:20:36] You have no choice because nobody knows you exist otherwise.

[00:20:38] If you're not at a show and you don't have any kind of advertising, you're nobody at this point because you're an enigma, right?

[00:20:46] So I agree with that part.

[00:20:47] I just think that there has to be at some point in the last couple of years for cybersecurity especially, everybody says they do everything.

[00:20:55] There was no fine line on what layer of cybersecurity somebody belonged to.

[00:20:59] You know, and it was a lot of marketing buzzwords is what it was.

[00:21:03] I mean, the classic ones were, we protect you.

[00:21:06] We protect your data.

[00:21:08] Great.

[00:21:08] How?

[00:21:10] Right.

[00:21:10] Where do you fall?

[00:21:11] So you mean all of it?

[00:21:12] No, no, no, no.

[00:21:13] Then once you ask all of it, they're like, no, no, no.

[00:21:15] We're in this little, see this right here.

[00:21:17] We're in this little corner.

[00:21:18] This is us.

[00:21:19] Well, what is that?

[00:21:19] Like, you know, and so at some point there has to be some sort of you guys.

[00:21:24] I don't know.

[00:21:24] I don't want to put it all on you, Doug.

[00:21:25] But, you know, at some point it does come down to you all because you're the ones that are figuring out the insurance for them.

[00:21:30] Right.

[00:21:31] Right.

[00:21:31] Well, I think the, well, certainly what we need to do and continue to focus on is, first of all, what are the areas that should be, you know, where we should be focusing our cybersecurity attentions on?

[00:21:46] And it is still, when you look at the claims data, it's still often that low-hanging fruit.

[00:21:55] The system wasn't patched.

[00:21:57] There wasn't MFA in the environment.

[00:22:00] We didn't have a backup that was available when we needed it there.

[00:22:10] And everybody was an admin.

[00:22:14] So there still is that low-hanging fruit that where 80% of the security holes exist.

[00:22:24] And so there's a lot of opportunity just to focus on that.

[00:22:27] And then to look at, you know, what are the other solutions that can really, you know, help to, you know, beyond that to really mitigate risk and close that other 20% that could create existential, you know, damage to a business there.

[00:22:46] I'm sorry.

[00:22:47] I'd have to assume, though, that some of the, you know, some of what we need to talk about, too, is how one cyber company, I mean, insurance company like CyberInsure, like you, differentiates from others as well, right?

[00:22:59] So I'm assuming on the back end, a lot of you are using the same products.

[00:23:03] But really where the separator is, how are you standing behind the people when a claim needs to be made?

[00:23:07] How are you making sure that what they're putting in the information, you know, when they're putting in their information, they're not putting in anything that could cause a carve-out or a claim rejection later.

[00:23:16] So, you know, maybe that's, you know, where some of this award focus has to be.

[00:23:21] It's really about the service delivery model because I'm assuming that's really what you're really trying to bring to the market.

[00:23:26] It's not here's the insurance.

[00:23:28] I mean, you know, sign up for that anywhere.

[00:23:31] It's how CBOT is going to stand behind me.

[00:23:33] Right, right.

[00:23:35] Exactly.

[00:23:35] And, you know, when I looked at the cyber, as I was, you know, setting up my company and looking at the cyber market, there were two things that I saw.

[00:23:47] One is that the cyber insurance, the underwriting approach was broken.

[00:23:53] It wasn't working.

[00:23:54] They were evaluating it by applications and external scanning.

[00:23:57] And they weren't really, so they didn't really know what they were writing.

[00:24:01] And we saw the result of that when ransomware hit the fan a few years ago and caught everyone by surprise on the carrier side.

[00:24:09] And then the other is the, you know, when I look at the, especially the small, medium-sized business market, which has been underserved, 75% of small businesses do not have cyber insurance today here,

[00:24:24] is that that segment is largely managed by managed service providers.

[00:24:29] And they need to be part of the solution from a cyber security standpoint.

[00:24:37] And they can be part of the solution from the cyber insurance standpoint.

[00:24:41] And that's where we differentiate is that we use the MSPs and we use the access that they have to get behind the firewall and to get the data so that we're better able to understand the risks that we're taking on.

[00:24:56] And that allows us to be more competitive.

[00:24:59] But it allows us also to be more confident that we're going to be able to, and the carriers that we work with, are going to pay the claims.

[00:25:08] Because we know what's in the environment.

[00:25:10] We know what's there.

[00:25:11] And, yes, things can change and incidents can still happen.

[00:25:15] But that coverage will be there when the client needs it there.

[00:25:20] And we've had conversations.

[00:25:21] Actually, the claims people have had conversations with our MSP partners, you know, basically saying, you know, that we're here behind the product.

[00:25:30] And we also want you to be part of the solution when a claim time comes.

[00:25:35] Because that's the other thing that MSPs talk about is I don't want to be shut out.

[00:25:39] You know, I can help.

[00:25:41] I can be helpful.

[00:25:43] And at least the carrier, you know, our program allows them to be helpful.

[00:25:47] We want them to be.

[00:25:48] And to your earlier question, Sean, about.

[00:25:51] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:25:52] Go ahead, Matt.

[00:25:53] No, I was going to say.

[00:25:54] And that's the biggest deal.

[00:25:56] I mean, the thing I know that when I speak on stage right now that I preach over and over and over again.

[00:26:01] And I'm thinking MSPs are finally starting to listen is you have to be involved.

[00:26:07] You need to look at their policy.

[00:26:09] You need to understand what's in their policy.

[00:26:11] What they need to have.

[00:26:12] What they don't have.

[00:26:14] And have that conversation with them.

[00:26:16] I mean, you have to do it in a way that what I always talk about is don't use FUD.

[00:26:20] Okay.

[00:26:21] Because all that does is scare people in the opposite direction nowadays.

[00:26:24] Right.

[00:26:25] They don't trust you enough to run to you.

[00:26:27] They run somewhere else.

[00:26:28] But if you use factual information and you can show them that it's factual information.

[00:26:34] I mean, you just you open up a world of possibilities.

[00:26:38] But if you choose not to pay attention and you decide to just be ignorant on purpose, you're going to lose your business.

[00:26:46] Yeah.

[00:26:47] And Sean, to your earlier question about, you know, the MSPs that are struggling to talk about the business side.

[00:26:52] You know, what Doug just shared, what Matt shared there is what I'm seeing as well.

[00:26:55] This risk conversation is becoming the bridge between the former technology performance based, KPI based conversation and getting into the business and outcome strategy.

[00:27:07] So, you know, as a guy that does compliance and the guy that does business reviews as part of that, you know, when I'm talking to them, when I'm talking to my customers, it's all about, hey, you as the MSPs have to be that trusted advisor.

[00:27:18] You all say you want to be by thinking of the outcome the customer is going to have if you don't do right by them.

[00:27:24] If you're not having these business conversations today and the next generation of MSP has to have them, you're going to find yourself, you know, on the wrong side of the stick with your customer and somebody is going to take your business.

[00:27:35] And the risk conversation is becoming a natural way for them to do it because they understand, hey, we got a problem.

[00:27:41] Here's the risk. Now I got to quantify it.

[00:27:43] And that's really probably the big thing that's changing is they're looking at a hierarchy of prioritization and working with their clients to answer that.

[00:27:50] And Doug's product, as an example, is one of the things that's dictating priority because they know what's going to get carved out or what's going to get rejected or what's not going to get that person cyber insurance.

[00:27:59] And they're able to talk from that position.

[00:28:01] So it's a nice thing to see in the industry finally because we're getting that transition happening naturally off of a conversation they're a little more comfortable with.

[00:28:10] Yeah.

[00:28:10] MSPs just have to, as they're presenting this, they just need to learn not to try to be big and scary, but matter of fact and business-like.

[00:28:19] So to your point.

[00:28:20] I'm talking about the customer's risk, not about the FUD conversation.

[00:28:23] Exactly.

[00:28:24] Even when they have the information, a lot of MSPs still go, oh, my God, you're in trouble.

[00:28:30] Oh, the world's going to fall.

[00:28:31] And it's really taking the time to learn how to speak from a business standpoint and not a FUD or technical standpoint.

[00:28:41] So instead of being scared, they want to talk to you.

[00:28:44] They feel that you understand them where they're going.

[00:28:47] I mean, I've said cybersecurity for a long time is to protect your company, people, and profits.

[00:28:52] That's it.

[00:28:53] That's what cybersecurity does.

[00:28:54] You can get into all the pieces underneath it.

[00:28:56] But if I'm a business owner, those are the three things I care about.

[00:29:02] I agree.

[00:29:03] You know what?

[00:29:03] And just one thing about that, always.

[00:29:06] The FUD thing is normal for a lot of IT guys.

[00:29:10] And again, back to use a lot of acronyms, a lot of scary terminology when they don't even have to.

[00:29:16] There's enough commercials out there for them to be scared.

[00:29:19] They watch the regular commercials, so why don't they use it?

[00:29:22] Just I would say look at those commercials that exist, like the IBM commercials that talk about all the hacks and the ransomwares, and just piggyback off of it.

[00:29:29] Like, oh, you've seen that commercial?

[00:29:29] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:30] So we work on those things.

[00:29:31] We prevent that from happening.

[00:29:32] Great.

[00:29:33] In the end.

[00:29:33] The transition is so easy now, Sean.

[00:29:35] It's, hey, you know the FUD.

[00:29:37] You've seen it out there.

[00:29:38] But here's where your risk lives, and these are the gaps that you need to fill or that FUD could become a reality.

[00:29:43] And you stay in the could, maybe, could, and not the it's going to happen absolutely.

[00:29:49] But, you know, I mean, I always like, you know, Matt just shared his three.

[00:29:53] Sean, you've heard me say this a couple times over the last couple weeks here.

[00:29:56] But people only buy for one reason.

[00:29:58] Save money, make money, or manage risk.

[00:30:00] That's it, right?

[00:30:00] And this is a conversation where we can manage risk, which can ultimately save them money, right?

[00:30:05] Well, I'll say that manage risk.

[00:30:07] The first things you said were buy products have to manage the risk.

[00:30:10] So it doesn't matter.

[00:30:12] But I also want to acknowledge the fact that, to Doug and Matthew, that the last recording, Brian called the victory, just so you know.

[00:30:21] So we're clear.

[00:30:23] But there was a lot more calling out Bobby, Matt, just so you know.

[00:30:27] Because we both took it in the chin on him, you know?

[00:30:30] Oh, now it's about Bobby.

[00:30:32] No, Brian basically said he was winning.

[00:30:34] He didn't say anything about it.

[00:30:35] He didn't say, I'm going to beat Bobby.

[00:30:38] He just said he's beating everybody.

[00:30:39] Well, no, no.

[00:30:40] I called out Bobby because Bobby was sitting there.

[00:30:42] Now I'll call out Matt.

[00:30:43] We're taking you guys.

[00:30:44] I mean, you know, the nice part is $30,000 is nice, too.

[00:30:47] I enjoyed mine.

[00:30:49] And Matt got knives.

[00:30:51] I mean, it's cool.

[00:30:52] But no.

[00:30:57] I mean, look.

[00:30:58] It's going to be fun because all three contestants this year, all three finalists, have a different story to tell.

[00:31:04] So it really is going to be more about the presenter and less probably about the technology because there is no little overlap.

[00:31:11] There's no real, you know.

[00:31:12] And we lost Matthew.

[00:31:13] Bye, Matthew.

[00:31:14] Well, Matthew got upset with us, you know, calling him out there.

[00:31:17] He doesn't want to hear about it.

[00:31:19] He's not going to like the fact that I'm like, oh, I guess he's conceding now.

[00:31:26] Wow.

[00:31:27] Wow.

[00:31:27] And the best part, Brian, is he's talking, you know, you're talking about it like Doug's not here.

[00:31:30] That's the best part.

[00:31:31] Right, right.

[00:31:31] I like Doug.

[00:31:34] Doug's the one competing.

[00:31:36] Not even Matthew.

[00:31:37] No, well, I'm calling out last year's contestants for fun, obviously, right?

[00:31:42] I mean, honestly, Bobby is one of the most gracious human beings on the planet.

[00:31:45] It makes teasing him like impossible because.

[00:31:48] It makes you mad, right?

[00:31:49] Because you can't say anything.

[00:31:50] Because A, he can take it and B, then he returns you with a nice statement.

[00:31:54] A pleasantry.

[00:31:55] You're right.

[00:31:56] I should have.

[00:31:57] Bobby's a great human being.

[00:31:58] And candidly, I found Doug to be the same way in all my conversations with him.

[00:32:02] You know, I mean, he's a nice guy to talk to.

[00:32:05] He's out there for the community.

[00:32:06] He's really trying to make things better.

[00:32:08] And, you know, that's what we want in the vendor world, right?

[00:32:11] And I'm not saying any of our finalists aren't this way.

[00:32:13] We've got a great group of finalists in Pitchett this year.

[00:32:16] You know, honestly, a great group of companies in Pitchett's what I'm seeing each year.

[00:32:21] You know, when the owners make the investment of time to be part of this program and do the things you got to do.

[00:32:27] Even those that, unfortunately, there can only be three in the finals.

[00:32:30] Right.

[00:32:30] But, you know, it's amazing, you know, the effort that goes into this.

[00:32:35] It's phenomenal.

[00:32:35] Oh, yes, he is.

[00:32:39] No, no, man.

[00:32:42] We kept you out because we were still working on beating on you.

[00:32:45] We had to finish up before we let you back in.

[00:32:47] And you hit right at the point where I was saying, I'm sorry.

[00:32:50] I'm sorry.

[00:32:52] I know you guys aren't winning.

[00:32:53] Because what's going to happen is, just like anything else,

[00:32:56] this product that people think isn't quite that set,

[00:33:00] all of a sudden it's going to come right to the front.

[00:33:02] People are going to go, oh, because it's hitting on every cylinder needs to hit on

[00:33:09] with what it provides, what it gives to the MSPs, what it gives to the customers.

[00:33:14] I'm sorry.

[00:33:15] We're winning this year.

[00:33:17] It is what it is.

[00:33:18] The fun part is we're going to know these results in about three weeks.

[00:33:22] That's right.

[00:33:23] That's right.

[00:33:24] And, yeah, I agree.

[00:33:25] And this isn't – I don't need to throw a lot of FUD at my competitors

[00:33:30] because the facts just will kind of speak to themselves.

[00:33:33] Well, I just want to take down Bobby.

[00:33:35] Screw the FUD.

[00:33:36] I just want to see Bobby suffer.

[00:33:39] Bobby won't suffer.

[00:33:41] Bobby will still be happy.

[00:33:43] It's all good.

[00:33:45] Bobby's a good, happy guy, to be honest.

[00:33:47] I like Bobby.

[00:33:49] There's a lot of sadists on this call.

[00:33:51] There'll be people –

[00:33:53] I think the coaches will be the ones fighting each other more than the contestants.

[00:33:59] Yeah.

[00:34:00] They'll be a separate octagon.

[00:34:01] Sean has turned this into –

[00:34:02] For every coach, because I was talking to Adam Walter about this last year too.

[00:34:06] He's turned it into a two-year competition for every finalist.

[00:34:10] Yeah.

[00:34:10] You will see next year, Doug, as you're coaching somebody.

[00:34:13] You still want to win, baby.

[00:34:14] That's right.

[00:34:15] That's right.

[00:34:16] Especially when I walked away with steak knives.

[00:34:19] The only difference is we're not playing for any money anymore, but it's still bragging rights.

[00:34:23] It's not bragging rights though at that point.

[00:34:24] I mean like –

[00:34:26] Because think about this.

[00:34:28] Jameson West, he won.

[00:34:31] He coached Alert Ops.

[00:34:33] They won.

[00:34:33] Jameson's the one who started this whole thing just so you're clear.

[00:34:35] We're all clear right now.

[00:34:36] He was the original shit talker.

[00:34:39] And it worked out beautifully.

[00:34:40] So he won his.

[00:34:43] He coached Cam Alert Ops.

[00:34:45] They win.

[00:34:45] And then Cam coaches Bobby.

[00:34:47] They win.

[00:34:48] So Jameson still talks about he's still winning.

[00:34:50] Yes.

[00:34:51] Like to this day.

[00:34:52] It's his legacy, right?

[00:34:53] When I talked to him, he's like, yeah, it's good to see I'm still winning.

[00:34:55] I'm like, you're not Bobby.

[00:34:56] He goes, I'm always involved.

[00:34:58] I'm like, I can't – I'm like, okay.

[00:35:00] So –

[00:35:02] We got it in the line.

[00:35:03] Matt and Doug win this thing.

[00:35:05] I can already see Matt's bio changing to pitch an award-winning coach.

[00:35:09] Right.

[00:35:14] You know, I'm going to be spot on with that too.

[00:35:18] Oh, my God.

[00:35:19] I'm going to post gym pictures saying, look how hard I work for you.

[00:35:24] That's right.

[00:35:27] Sean loves my gym pictures.

[00:35:29] Well, guys, once again, as these pitch-in episodes tend to,

[00:35:32] we've gone way beyond our normal.

[00:35:34] But that's because we do have a lot of fun during these things.

[00:35:37] Sean, you know, again, it's great the program that you and ConnectWise

[00:35:40] are bringing to the table.

[00:35:41] I mean, it is giving huge opportunities, as we've spoken about before,

[00:35:44] for smaller vendors who don't have yet the funds as they're bootstrapping

[00:35:48] to be as present everywhere as they want to be.

[00:35:52] You know, this gives them that leg up.

[00:35:54] And, you know, Doug, I don't want to speak for you, but I'll speak,

[00:35:56] I know, a little bit for me and Matt, and you can echo in.

[00:35:59] But I think all of us got better in our pitches as a result of this.

[00:36:03] All of us learned things about our products that the outside world cared about

[00:36:06] that we didn't know because we took it for granted.

[00:36:09] We're too close to the source.

[00:36:10] And, you know, hopefully you experienced that as well.

[00:36:13] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:36:14] Absolutely.

[00:36:14] It's been the experience of just going through the whole pitch-up process

[00:36:20] has been fantastic, you know, in terms of learning

[00:36:25] and being able to figure out how to present in the right way,

[00:36:29] but also being able to connect with the community and some great people.

[00:36:34] I mean, Sean's put together really a great group of people

[00:36:38] to help us along the way.

[00:36:39] And I'm sure that it's not just for this competition,

[00:36:44] but I know that the relationships I've built will last beyond it.

[00:36:48] And that's even more impactful, too, I think.

[00:36:51] So we'll go around the horn.

[00:36:52] Sean, any closing thoughts from your seat?

[00:36:55] It's simple.

[00:36:56] I mean, these guys, all you guys go through a lot.

[00:36:59] I hope people actually come and watch you pitch live.

[00:37:04] We are the biggest event within the event, which is nice.

[00:37:07] There's a free bar starting at 2.30 p.m. Eastern Standard on the 6th.

[00:37:11] I don't know what room it is.

[00:37:12] I'll let you know as soon as I know that.

[00:37:14] But an open bar, that to me is, first off, you show up for that at the very least.

[00:37:19] Second, you should come watch what is the best event of the event

[00:37:24] and watch what these guys have all done.

[00:37:27] It is exciting to watch.

[00:37:28] It is fun.

[00:37:30] And also keep in mind that it is some of a lot of you guys are peers.

[00:37:35] You were MSPs or are currently MSPs.

[00:37:38] So you're supporting your own people regardless.

[00:37:40] So I think you should be showing up for that.

[00:37:42] Third, plus you get to watch, hopefully not watch Doug Take Stake Knives Home,

[00:37:47] but maybe very possible.

[00:37:49] But it's a good group, and I hope people do watch this.

[00:37:53] And honestly, Doug, I wish you luck because I think you're going to need it with Matthew.

[00:37:57] Thank you.

[00:38:01] I'm done.

[00:38:02] That's it.

[00:38:03] I'm buying handmade steak knives this year.

[00:38:06] If you buy steak knives, you're going home with $300 steak knives.

[00:38:12] So besides bringing better cutlery, Matt, what else you got for closing thoughts today?

[00:38:17] No, I love it.

[00:38:19] I love being a part of this.

[00:38:20] It's one big fraternity.

[00:38:22] You get to meet a lot of people, create a lot of partnerships,

[00:38:25] create a lot of friendships.

[00:38:26] You know, and people that you're going to be involved with for a long time,

[00:38:30] whether that be business, personal.

[00:38:32] It's just a very cool experience.

[00:38:34] And we're going to kick everybody's ass this year.

[00:38:37] Right.

[00:38:38] Right.

[00:38:39] All right.

[00:38:39] Well, Doug, I really wish you luck on this.

[00:38:42] You know, as much as I do need you to come in second,

[00:38:45] because we got to make sure, you know, my guy Daniel gets first place.

[00:38:48] You know, all kidding aside, though, I really think, you know,

[00:38:52] it's a great program.

[00:38:52] You're going to have a lot of fun, and I do wish you the best, man.

[00:38:55] All right.

[00:38:55] Well, thanks a lot.

[00:38:56] Somebody's got to beat us.

[00:38:57] You know, Doug, I can live with you.

[00:38:59] All right.

[00:39:00] Wow.

[00:39:02] Wow.

[00:39:04] Oh, you said that to all the boys.

[00:39:06] That's exactly it, because I'm sure I said the same thing to Bobby

[00:39:09] in those guys' first show.

[00:39:11] No, but all kidding aside.

[00:39:13] He told Zach he can lose to him.

[00:39:15] He's fine with it, too.

[00:39:16] He's lying to you.

[00:39:18] Zach is his own worst enemy, so we'll see what Zach does.

[00:39:21] Oh, my God.

[00:39:23] No, Zach is a ball of energy.

[00:39:24] It's going to be fun.

[00:39:25] The real reality is all three of you have different personalities

[00:39:28] and different approach models.

[00:39:30] So it's going to be fun to watch the pitches,

[00:39:32] because I don't think any one of them is going to feel similar to the other.

[00:39:35] Right.

[00:39:35] Zach is a ball of fire.

[00:39:37] You've got professional seasoning and gravitas,

[00:39:40] and then Daniel just has that English accent that's going to melt everyone.

[00:39:46] He's so smooth.

[00:39:48] Yeah.

[00:39:49] And he's just like – he's shocked to be there.

[00:39:52] So he's that guy that's going to come from out of nowhere,

[00:39:55] Cinderella boy from Augusta.

[00:39:58] He is.

[00:39:59] He's using words like stupendous.

[00:40:02] Yeah.

[00:40:02] He's going to blow you away with vocabulary.

[00:40:05] It's going to be phenomenal.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:06] He's from Augusta?

[00:40:08] No, no, no.

[00:40:09] When I was saying that, I was giving my Bill Murray there, buddy.

[00:40:12] Oh, I'm from Augusta.

[00:40:14] Wait a second.

[00:40:14] Came out of nowhere.

[00:40:16] My son and daughter live in Augusta.

[00:40:18] No, no.

[00:40:19] Daniel is from over the pond where things are prim and proper.

[00:40:24] But anyway, guys, it's going to be great.

[00:40:26] I want to say to everybody, sayonara.

[00:40:29] Sayonara.

[00:40:30] Saki up, pal.

[00:40:32] We'll see you in a few weeks.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Enjoy.

[00:40:34] Anyway, I'm excited, guys.

[00:40:36] Looking forward to it all.

[00:40:37] Let's all have some fun down at IT Nation.

[00:40:39] All right.

[00:40:39] Well, thanks a lot.

[00:40:40] All right, guys.

[00:40:41] Appreciate it.