Robert Gillette | Mastering Sales Confidence: Secrets from MSP Dojo

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey guys, it's Brian Doyle and this week on MSP Business School, we've got a sales clinic to bring to you.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: My old boss, actually my first boss, Rock Cap of Bianco is going to join me

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're going to really cover a bunch of topics around sales like effective hiring,

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_01]: essential training approaches, and how to keep your sales team on track. Can't wait for you to join us.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Now let's get to this week's MSP Business School.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to MSP Business School, led by our Deans of Business Development,

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Brian Doyle, Tim McNeil, and Rob Rogers.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Each week MSP Business School is committed to delivering you proven strategies, tips, and tactics

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for MSPs to accelerate their business growth and revenue through better sales,

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: better marketing, and true account management. Classes start now, so let's get started.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's throw it to the Deans.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: As always, I'm Brian Doyle here with you and I hope everybody's having a wonderful summer.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that I've been doing a little bit of travel, enjoying a little bit of the sun on the fun

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: before we all get back to the real grindstone as we head into the school year.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I hope that you're all finding a little time to rest.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This is an industry that definitely struggles with the concept of work-life balance.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not what we're here to talk about today.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We're here because we've got a very special guest and I want to introduce Robert Gillette,

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: founder of MSP Dojo, to the call today.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Robert, welcome. Thank you for joining me.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh gosh, thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've gotten to meet Robert through some mutual folks out in the marketplace.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know many of you listeners might be familiar with him as well.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's doing something pretty cool over at MSP Dojo.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And before he dives into that, though, as you know, I always love to hear everybody's backstory

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and how they came into the crazy world of MSP.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, gosh. So, yeah, total accident is the answer.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So grandpa was in sales, dad was in sales.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to do it. I ran from it my whole life and found myself in my 30s

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: with as a jack of all trades, master of none, really trying to figure out what I wanted to be

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: when I, you know, when I grew up, so to speak.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And a friend of mine kind of headhunted me to come work for an MSP in a sales role.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it just kind of hit me in the right moment.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking for something dramatic and a good change in my life.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said I'd give it six months.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And the CEO there was able to convince me that basically everything I'd been doing

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: my whole life was sales.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: If I just learned to accept it and reframe it into what it really is,

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're doing consultative sales, when you sell a consultative product,

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: it can be one of the most powerful and one of the most maturing

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: things you can possibly do once you understand what it really is,

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: which is helping people make choices, getting them unstuck

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: from wherever they're stuck and inserting.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And so just it just unlocked everything for me in my mid 30s.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, you know, there's a lot of that concern around,

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, sales can be a four letter word sometimes to some people. Right.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And we've come up with all these wonderful titles to almost be anything

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: except sales. But I always say, but I used to say, you know,

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: at the end of the day, when I showed up at the customer's site,

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: he sat on one side of the desk or she sat on one side of the desk

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I sat on the other and there was no denying what each other's

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: roles were in that moment. Right. So couch it how you want to.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the beautiful things about the MSP community,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: like you said, is we get to be consultative salespeople.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We really can guide people as much as we're selling people in this process.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Right.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It just kills me every time you talk to someone like, well, I'm not a,

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I'm not in sales.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm I'm a, you know, I'm an educator.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I teach people are and it's like, cool.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. But at some point you ask them for money, though. Right.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you don't just do it for free.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's one of the big things that I think is really missing

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: from the MSP space is if you get come to grips with that as a person,

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that means that it's going to always be an awkward,

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: tense moment for your for your prospects or even your clients.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: When at some point you ask them for money, if it's weird for you,

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it's definitely going to be weird for them.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's something I think, you know, obviously, as junior sales reps

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: come into into the fray, it's tough, you know, especially when they're

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: meeting people that they might be a little bit intimidated by

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're further along in their career than some of us

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that have been around for a while.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And you realize everybody across the table from you is just like you

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: once was in your spot and also puts their pants on the same way,

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that the reality is we're all speaking from the same language

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and we know our roles, but it's tough. Right.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough to get that confidence.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk a little bit more about that before we're done

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on this call today. Oh, I suspect. Yeah.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I find one of the coolest things I've ever heard was, you know,

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I had the fortune or misfortune.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: We can dialogue on that later.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But of working in a fortune five health care firm for a while.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I was fortunate enough also to be high enough

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: on the ladder that I got exposure to literally the CEOs

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and CIOs of our organization.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result of that, one of the things that stuck with me

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: too, as the CEO saying, what's my job?

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: My job is merely to be the biggest salesperson we have here.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to sell confidence to our shareholders.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to sell out to the largest customers that we work with,

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that we can maintain what we're doing for them and be better

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to continue them renewing with us.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I need to find those new major companies that I meet

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: in all my different walks of life, like conferences,

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and get them somehow to take a meeting with our organization.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that really resonated with me because it was one of those things

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the CEO was saying, that's why I have all the lieutenants

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that manage the day to day.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: My job is to make sure people are coming.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you as a salesperson, if you kind of take it up,

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the CEO of Me, Inc.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what I got to do to build my business.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It could change the way you look at sales.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that was one of the things that changed my view on sales.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And that just lines up with some things like there's a book

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: by Daniel Pink that talks about to sell as human and kind of this idea

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, my paraphrase of that is if you at any point

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: need to convince a human to allocate resources, attention

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: or action differently than they do now, then you are in sales.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's all sales is, is just trying to encourage people

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to change some type of behavior or allocation of resources.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And pretty much everybody does that.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It does that. It doesn't matter if your job is, you know,

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to get a new client at the right MRR or get your kids to eat broccoli.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Like at some point, you're trying to influence or change behavior.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say you learned it as a kid

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: when you were trying to get candy from mom and dad.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You learned it again as you were starting to enter the dating world

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and you were trying to get somebody to say yes.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So every each and every one of us has definitely been in a selling position,

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: whether we knew it or not along the way.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, at this point, Robert, probably a good place

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: where we can probably start transitioning into what MSP

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Dojo can do for the sales community as well.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So thanks for that.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The MSP Dojo is when I looked around

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and I tried to understand what what I could do.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I spent seven years helping an MSP grow from 10 to 30 million dollars

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: in revenue as their lead sales executive,

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: which was one heck of an experience in the Silicon Valley.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, trying to convince techies that they need tech support

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: was a unique experience.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But when I left that job after seven years

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was time to figure out what to do next,

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the obvious answer was either start slash buy into an MSP

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: as the sales guy or an owner or do sales coaching.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't I wasn't ready or just was kind of burnt out.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to do the job again.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I started doing sales coaching.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And man, that was just it's a very crowded market.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of people that will tell you what to do.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was I knew in almost instantly I wasn't going to find

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: some amazing new take on that.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: There were some voices I really liked already in the channel,

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: especially ones that were just starting out.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to really try and compete with.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I did find is there was absolutely no place for someone

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: to go and practice what they were learning.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the marketing version of that is

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: if you want to hit home runs, someone's got to teach you how to hold the bat,

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: where to stand, how to spot the pitch, follow through, run to first base.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. Yeah.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But then you have to see a thousand pitches

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can either do that in the game, which is expensive and embarrassing,

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: or you can go to the batting cages.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the MSP dojo was the batting cages.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where we could get together and practice

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: what we've learned around sales so that we can be confident in doing it.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're hitting upon the things that we've all heard, right?

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The 5000 hour rule to become an expert or anybody that's played any sports.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a repetition, doing those reps over and over.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: What gets you the outcomes you want?

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think, you know, as we head into that,

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you hit me with a stat that honestly shocked me a little bit

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: before we turned on the light today.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really about the current state of MSP sales departments.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And what's the reality of what's actually coming in that new

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to a new organization?

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe you want to touch upon that one a little bit

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and kind of elaborate where that intersects with that practice theory.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, so I want to be clear, I'm not a statistician.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, 87 percent of all facts are made up.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm sure you can.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So but when I first set on set out on this journey for the MSP dojo,

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I did interview 100 MSPs and just ask them lots of questions

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: about sales and marketing.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them was like how many first time appointments

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: have you set in the last year in the last 12 month period?

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how many prospects did you sit down with it?

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You've never talked to that are in IT support, like they're on IT pain

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and they need a new vendor or MSP or something.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like 85 percent of them had fewer than 10,

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, or were like at 10.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just I remember thinking, like, how could you possibly

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: be any good at something you do once a month?

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I just it blew my mind because especially coming out of the full time

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: role as a sales guy, you know, I had averaged like 120 a year

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I still felt like I was still learning after seven years at 100 ish a year.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how in the world could you get good at something

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you only do once a month that blew you know?

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to dig into that number a little bit because I think

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it's important to also think a little bit about

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: how leads and how sales come right.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So you talk to 85 random or excuse me, 100 random MSPs.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure some were owner led, some had sales teams.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: They were all variants. Right.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And really what we're saying here is not just 10 new

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: or net new sales calls per year, but that's what's coming in

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: through the referral channels as well as outbound sales

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: potentially across this entire mix that you had.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I want listeners to really think about that number.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: When you start thinking about, you know, other conversations

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: we've had on the show about exit planning and getting to certain

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: growth modes and things like that, just think about your average

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: contract value per customer.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see 10 of them.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're, you know, if you're a Hall of Fame or you're getting three of them,

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: right, you know, it's the old batting average, three out of ten kind of thing.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that really adding to your business?

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And is that enough to get you to your end goals?

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. I mean, there's those whole we can dive way deep

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: into the metrics around this, like the difference between a referral

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: led sales process and a marketing led sales process.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What it's what's the difference in how you sell to a referral

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's been given to you by a client or is referred to you

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: by a center of influence like their accountant.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like all these little nuances matter.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you do one, you know, client referral this quarter

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and a marketing lead next quarter, it's impossible to build any kind

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: of repeatable process that you run because you're a human, not a machine.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got all the you've got head trash and you've got your own rust.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to shake off.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It just it's it's just impossible to get any kind of consistency

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: or quality in something you just do that little.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. And, you know, I believe strongly in that because you're spot on.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. You know, you look at referral based because I'm sure some people laughed

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: when I said three out of ten because they're like, I'm closing six out of ten.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But if they're all coming to you through channels, you know,

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: there's already a warm lead there. Right.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And if we focus on that marketing based approach, three out of ten

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: would be probably a pretty strong number for, you know, true cold processes there.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you talk about that practice component, right?

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You're right. If you're just showing up on game day 10 times a year,

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: there's really no way to refine your approach.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talk about sport, you know, athletes that come back from an injury

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and how it'll take them a week to really get back in the groove,

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, depending on what sport they play.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, think about if you're just showing up once every month to do a new sales call

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and you have to remember your whole approach model

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and try to be consistent with it. I can't see it being done.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, Robert, tell us a little bit about how, you know,

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you've started working to guide and help people with that process.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So it's pressure and process.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is, you know, you have to have a process

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: for how you're going to consistently do those at bats.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So the MSP dojo, that's a big part of it.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We get together every week and we practice one of the 52 most common sales scenarios.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing, you know, magical or new.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them even sound pretty similar with just different spins on them.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's about just having a disciplined process.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And how do I, you know, divide up those scenarios?

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: How do I space them out and consistently just get at bats,

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, just visiting the cages.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But the other part it's important to recognize is that like there is

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: a human component to this, like I said, where you mentioned the word earlier

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and confidence is the number one thing we're trying to figure out here.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just how do you be confident in what you're doing?

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're bad at this, your prospect isn't going to tell you.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to tell you you're too expensive

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: or something wrong with another vendor or they'll ghost you

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're not going to get any feedback.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So the other component to this is not only are you practicing

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: one of these scenarios, you're practicing it with your peers,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: people who do what you do.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And they can point out specifically where you're bad at it.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And we play not just the role of the seller, but also the buyer and the coach.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So for an hour every single week, whoever is responsible

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: for meeting with that new client at an MSP is going to be saturated

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: in role play exercises around a specific topic for an hour.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an hour of active participation.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to walk out of that meeting with just a greater confidence

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in both their own sales ability, their own what I call them,

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the sales confidence, like just the air you can present

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that I know what I'm doing and I'm not freaking out.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And then very specifically, they're going to feel like

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: they have a good tactical script that they could run against

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: any particular scenario that comes your way.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we literally just this past week and maybe this will destroy

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the evergreen nature of this podcast.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But just this like literally an hour ago, we got out of practicing this scenario.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you don't you guys don't use CrowdStrike, do you?

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's definitely a question everyone's going to be getting.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how do you use that moment to cause differentiation

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: between you and the other vendors they're meeting with before?

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Two weeks ago it was, hey, we'd love to use you, but you're really expensive.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And you may think you have a good strategy on how to handle those questions,

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but is it tested and have you done it out loud?

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, when you go do this with your peers who can call you on your BS,

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: does it work? Do you work?

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you good at this? Can you feel comfortable?

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That's realistically what we're testing is that sales muscle in general.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, yes, sales tactics specifically.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think working out that sales

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, muscles critical.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big fan of role play, like even over the world of ECIO

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: toolbox when we're doing ramp camps, those folks are doing

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: a role play of those QBR presentations.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not the first time they're going out to do it.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, no matter what walk of life you are in technology,

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: there's probably a level of role play that you should be conducting.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But in sales, you really need to get that process down.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So it is muscle memory.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can make rebuttals on gut and feel in previous know how.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're not thinking through that objection right there on the spot,

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to figure out how you're going to combat it.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, kudos for you for tapping into kind of an underserved market,

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: which is the salespeople.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know I've known Robert for a little bit now

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and we've had some previous conversations.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things I've always found interesting about this industry

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: is oftentimes the sales reps on an island alone inside the MSP.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They are a team of one of one,

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe one and a half if you throw the owner in there.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't have people they can role play with.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have people natively there that understand the plight of the salesperson

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and the fact that rejection is a part of success.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And these things can really weigh on somebody.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I think, you know, what you're doing,

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: a role playing probably reinforces some of that.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe you could talk a little bit again about,

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, where that is really an advantage coming to MSP Dojo

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: for that single man sales team.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And that single man sales team, again, I would throw the owner operator

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: because most people can't afford or haven't had a lot of success

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: hiring that single salesperson.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the reasons why they struggle is because they're just not

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: a good example worth following.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You put a salesperson in the team and expect them to perform better

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: than you as the owner, it's really unlikely.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's an expensive endeavor to get wrong.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, one of the things I believe is so mission critical

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: is that if you are operating again in that silo,

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like it's like singing out in the woods by yourself.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You may think you're pretty good, but you put them in front of an audience

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're going to get an objective measurement

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: of whether or not you can hold a tune.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have that same experience.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had people join the dojo and say, well, you know,

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really bring my silver bullets to the room

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because my competitors are here and blah, blah, blah.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's, you know, a very interesting mindset

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that's holding back their success, because.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: If you can't test those silver bullets against people

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that also have their own silver bullets, it's going to you don't know if they work.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You just know that sometimes a prospect buys and sometimes they don't.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And, you know, I think holding back is one of the most interesting

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: things you hear from anybody, because when you look at the MSP community,

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: we generally do, you know, the same kind of work

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01]: just in different regions. Right.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we might have our little different spins and secret sauce,

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but at the end of the day, it's there.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're a salesperson, and I'm sure you do some level,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: at least Robert, of kind of keeping people from next door neighbors,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: at least not showing up in the same session, so to speak.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason why you can't be totally transparent.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody can learn and nothing that we're saying in the sales environment

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: is not something we haven't heard from some guru or sales pro in the past. Right.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I joke around, I haven't had an original thought in 25, 30 years.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's nothing.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the first job in the world was,

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but sales was probably the second.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. Oh, you know, and it's really funny

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: we mentioned that because competitors comes up all the time.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: People ask me about that.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And my very first 12 members were all people

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I personally knew from my network in my market.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: They were all direct competitors. Wow.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That I had stolen business from and they had stolen business for me.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we were it was like a little gang we formed of some people

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that were directly in each other's noses.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And what we found is it helped us

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_00]: actually get better at our own differentiation.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: There's this one of the big evil secrets about this.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: This industry is that, you know, we

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: we aren't as different as we would like our clients to think we are.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We often use a lot of the same tools.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We follow the same gurus.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the few things that we have at our disposal is understanding ourselves

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: how we're actually different than our competitors.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the best ways to sharpen that is just get in the room with them

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and talk with them.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a guy named Alex Rader that runs the Bay Area

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I.T. group here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And it is a thriving community of competitors that are in this.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They've got a Slack channel where they're literally giving each other

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: referrals and asking for advice.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't believe separating competitors actually helps us

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: close more business in any way, shape or form.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So I actually encourage people, if you get the chance,

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: get in the room with your direct competitor

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and figure out how the two of you can explain

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_00]: how you're different in a way that a CPA could understand.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll both close more business.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I always had competitors that I called cooperators as well,

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because the reality is most of us as MSPs,

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: especially when we're in our growth trajectory,

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: we don't have every skill set we need.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result of that, we need to farm out

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and have trusted people we can bring into our environment

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and know that they're not going to work to take away our environment

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: at the ready as well.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So I had a lot of competitors that I was able to network with

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and do some of this role playing with because we were trying

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to work together to win, you know, my Cisco guru over here

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: while I manage systems, right?

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And each one of us didn't want to cross over the others field for a while.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it was great.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad to hear you're seeing a lot of that happening in your area.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But you tend to be in a progressive area of the country.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: For those Californians, it's a but I would just encourage you

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're listening to this and you're still a little skeptical

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: about the, you know, competitor collaboration kind of thing.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I would just encourage you to think real hard and long about that.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there any way you could actually be adding value

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: by collaborating with people who you're going to run up against

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in the market anyways?

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, let's take a moment here and talk a little bit about

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens when I show up at the dojo.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: What you know, what should people expect

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: when they show up for one of your sessions?

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So we have a you know, there's

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: some added value I'm not going to talk about

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: that you'll find in the platform and other meetings and stuff like that.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But realistically, this is all it comes down to.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: On Thursday, you get an email

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that explains what the scenario is for the week.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fully fleshed out so you understand what the rules are.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be a video about 20 to 25 minutes long of me

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and two other black belts, people who I know are good at this,

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: demonstrating how we fall in the mud

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and would handle it if we were the salespeople in the seat.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't get a lot of preparation.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We just dive right into it.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no editing.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: If they trip and fall in their face, you're going to see it.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's authentic and relatable.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So that comes out on Thursday.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an email that goes out to all everyone on my subscriber list.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I have some open office hours on Friday where you can come

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: get your pre-practice in or if you don't have a coach,

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you can ask me questions.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But then Wednesday at 10 a.m.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Pacific, there's more times coming, but 10 a.m.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Pacific is the main one.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You get into a zoom room and for one hour,

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to be in breakout rooms, going through multiple iterations

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: of playing that role of the buyer, the seller and the coach

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: as you work through the meat of this objection in a role play with your peers.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, to be eligible to go through that,

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: all I have to do is be a subscriber to your overall MSP dojo net.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got to give me money.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And you pay some money.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So there is an onboarding course.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Pay to play, baby.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Some quality control so that you don't fall into it again.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not uncommon to have members sign up, you know, take the onboarding course.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Need a couple of weeks to get comfortable before they show up.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But if by your third week after giving me money, you're not in the program,

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you're not actually in the drill, you're getting calls from my assistant.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They're saying, hey, where are you? Where are you?

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you? Because so many people sign up for something.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why the draw of marketing and programs

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is so strong is we want to give money

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: as owners to solve problems.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But realistically, if you're like most MSPs, the owner is the problem

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have to work on yourself.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I hear from marketing companies all the time, lead generation companies

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: where their number one reason why they lose clients

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is because they for six months set up appointments

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that people don't show up to or blow off or say, well, they're not a good fit

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because the prospect had an objection.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the the appointment setting company loses a great client,

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: even though they've done everything they promised.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're the exact opposite of that.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to spend money and I'm going to require something from you directly.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a it is a you do it yourself kind of program.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, look, you know, accountability is probably

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the biggest challenges for all of us and in the MSP world,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: not like many other industries, of course, as well.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But we can be pulled in many different directions

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: during the course of the day.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, no two days necessarily look alike.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But that being said, if you can get somebody

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that's bringing part accountability with a program that can drive value,

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that's a win win for that end user.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And kudos to you on that being good enough to say, look,

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: if you're going to give me money, I'm going to make you work.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not going to work, I'm not going to take your money

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because that's that's something that a lot of the coaching industry

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: is not yet taken.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_01]: They're happy to take money on from people that are not

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: doing what they're supposed to be doing.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's tough because you don't want to ever define

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: what is considered help for people and what is not.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm always careful to, you know, I don't like canceling accounts,

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but I do think what's most important for me is managing the expectation.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And most things about sales is about managing expectations.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to experience and what is required of you for this to work?

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we have to just as MSP owners come to the grips

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that if we want sales to drive, if we want new client

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: revenue to drive the growth of our business, which, by the way,

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how you actually get a valuation you want without

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: figuring out this problem.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want new client revenue to help you grow your business

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: so you can get the exit you want or accomplish whatever your goal is,

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: it's something you are going to have to figure out first.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you can bring other people in.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But you have to figure out how to solve this problem first.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales is going to be the last thing to go from your plate.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, you're hitting on something huge there

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: because Abe Garver, who from Focus Investment Bank,

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: who's kind of one of the leading M&A specialists, shared something on this

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: on our platform about the fact that companies that have a true

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: proven sales methodology can prove that they're making acquisition sales

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and not just doing bolt on revenue jumps through, you know,

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: true M&A events.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Are getting as much as two X on top of what the standard,

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, standard return is.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, everybody is hungry in this industry for a sales engine.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you really want to make yourself marketable,

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: figure out how to build that sales engine.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't fall into the trap of 10 net new sales a year.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Figure out how you can tripled up, quadruple up or even further on that number

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and then get your practice reps in.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And kudos to you to really find a hole in the marketplace, Robert.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, thanks, man.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The question was there when I was fully selling.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm it's it's a I joke around that, you know, if the ice cream cone

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone wants to buy is more better leads.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: The the raw head of broccoli that no one wants to eat is

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you just need to get better at sales and it's not an easy task.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not an easy thing. You want to eat.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It requires direct, usually from the owner,

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: time to drive in and actually get better.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The good news is, is that incremental gains in this area

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: are actually really good.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: If you truly looked at those 10, you know, first time

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: new client appointments that you set, even doing one more every year

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: is a big gain in the early days.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say just doing 15 instead of 10 would mean that

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you should see a 50 percent increase over your usual year to year.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's not a whole lot to get a bigger number going.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So and doubling your close rate is a whole lot easier

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and cheaper than doubling your leads.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. So, you know, Robert, we're getting near

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the end of our time here. I've had your website up here.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So anybody that wants to go see and learn more about

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: what Robert's doing here, head over to MSPdojo.net.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to make sure that, you know, that anything else

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that you've got going on that you want to make people aware of

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that they know where to find you and how to get these services

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_01]: or if you're going to be out of a trade show

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: or somewhere else in the marketplace where they can come up

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and shake your hand and learn more.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So LinkedIn, I'm trying.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only social media I'm on these days is my LinkedIn.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to come see me in person, I think the next event

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing is actually ScaleCon in Vegas.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: MSP Camp and TechTribe are putting that on.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the first one.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I have great confidence

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that this is going to be one of the best, if not the best

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: sales and marketing event for our space in the channel all year long.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I've sat with Tahir, who's setting it up.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know some of the speakers he's put together.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The financial incentives he set up between sponsors and speakers

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and attendees is fantastic.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be one of the best.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the second year is it's going to knock people's socks off

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that they unseat IT Nation or something crazy like that.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be fantastic.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I think one of the nice parts about that conference

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is just looking from the outside in on that is two go-givers are running it.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, between Tahir and Nigel, they are really out there

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: big about giving the knowledge they know to the people that they can get to

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and bringing the right people in to support that.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So it is going to be an interesting conference.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know in talking to many conference attendees these days,

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: they are really looking for the conferences that are going to bring them

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: bona fide value and let the speaker speak about what the speakers are best at.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, there's and it's I guess there's a whole day

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: dedicated to marketing tactical.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you actually do it?

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: A whole day to sales and then a whole day to doing something.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So the last day of the conference is a whole day of action.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like don't just take the stuff and go home, do it here and be ready.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm very excited about that.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I think we could probably close with one stat.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get to today, which is 98 percent of you out there

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: have spent at least two K in marketing in the past six months.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't see a return, it's your fault.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, that's bone up and get better at sales, man.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it's a whole lot easier to double your close rate

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: than it is to double your leads.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just and they result in the same thing.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a client revenue.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Robert, I really appreciate you taking some time to join us today.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you've really shared a lot for people to think about

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: during our time together.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, certainly if you are a salesperson and you're struggling,

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the biggest reason you're struggling might be

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're not getting enough swings like we've talked about today.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: If that's the case, head on over and go see Robert.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me. What a great show.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You bet. Well, folks, we'll be back again next week.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: As you know, you can get our podcast anywhere

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you download your podcast or come visit us up on YouTube as well.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And Robert, again, want to thank you for joining us

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and look forward to talking to you more in the future.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Honor. Take care of it.