Shane Naugher | From Automation to Intelligence: The Evolution of Business Processes

[00:00:00] Hey, these coolers. We've got a great episode this week for you on MSP Business School. You've probably heard all the hype around AI and business process automation

[00:00:10] But at the same time, you're probably not sure to have to harness those tools and really bring better business outcomes to the businesses that you serve with your MSP Well don't worry today we're going to answer some of those questions as our guest, Shane Norr from Dazi

[00:00:24] Join me in a discussion on how to better utilize your business process automation and AI tools to really create amazing experiences for your customer So stay tuned. We get started now Hey everyone welcome to the latest installment of MSP Business School as always I'm your host Brian Doyle

[00:00:52] And with me today, I want to introduce a special guest I've got Shane Norr from Dazi joining me today. Shane's been a long time VCIO toolbox customer So we've gotten to know him there, but that's not what he's here to talk about today

[00:01:07] He's going to help educate us to the world of AI and business process automation as he sees it But more importantly as his customers are starting to leverage it And I think that's a big question on a lot of MSP's minds today

[00:01:22] We hear all the buzz about AI but where can we practically apply it with our clients? So with that being said, Shane welcome Well thank you Brian and again appreciate you allowing us to be on the podcast

[00:01:34] It's always an honor to chat with you and catch up and talk about what's going on in the industry I mean you know I always say this it's a lot of fun for me too because I learn a ton during these sessions

[00:01:45] As a guy that's now on the wrong side of the fence and some respects right? Let's see the day today as much and it's a lot of fun for me to learn more and more about what's going on out there

[00:01:55] But before we get into the big AI and business process automation story Love you just share with our listeners a little bit about your work back story and how you came to kicking off Dazi Gosh so I've been in the industry going on almost 30 years

[00:02:15] Hard to believe that if this one but the great here certainly just I quick doesn't it? It's really does really does I remember getting started in the industry and thinking of how cool technology was

[00:02:26] And what the capabilities were for you know every business and individual and what it would bring to our time And it's just crazy to see how much we could dance and feel fortunate to be a part of the community with it

[00:02:40] So yeah, I mean I started this particular company back in July of 2000 so we're going on you know 24 years of operation with Dazi and the services that we provided We've we've morphed over the years. You know we started out

[00:02:57] Primarily as of our which I'm sure most of most of the folks out there started out in that space doing a lot of hardware where we say all

[00:03:06] Implementing a lot of large-scale Cisco infrastructure I be to love and a security those type of things had a very very fortunate Start with that in that we teamed up with Cisco

[00:03:18] Cisco connected us with Southwestern Bell which was you know prior than merging with AT&T so as a small IT firm out of Southwest Missouri We got into some fairly large scale

[00:03:29] In environments that probably wouldn't have answered our call if we had to call without their relationship so A lot of interesting complex environments over the years and really we count that as a blessing because it exposed just the things that we just wouldn't normally see

[00:03:46] Probably focusing on our regional market so we we've been contracted anywhere from one of pad cantered all the way down to the 40 keys for job so Very fortunate to have been through that process and got us to where we are today.

[00:03:59] Now that's awesome and it is amazing how the evolution really come for those of us that were in the MSP space or I shouldn't even call them

[00:04:07] MSP space right because we were really just far as you know I go back to the late 90s coming into that as well and you know the market has shifted change probably what six seven times during that

[00:04:19] That period it's amazing but thanks for sharing a little bit about your background Now let's kind of move on a little bit to this AI discussion you know I've been talking to a lot of different you know obviously a lot of folks in the vendor community

[00:04:35] Obviously a lot of customers that we have over at BCIO toolbox and what I'm really seeing is almost a tale of two AI's

[00:04:44] Almost every vendor is looking at how to you know implement that and use that to help automate areas of their software and certainly where amongst those looking at that as well

[00:04:53] But when we get to the MSP conversations they're telling us a lot of their customers are a little bit guarded still on how to use AI They really don't understand what the use cases are you know they hear all the buzzwords Microsoft co pilot chat GPT

[00:05:08] You know all of that but they really don't know what to do with it. So I'd want to hear from you know your position Where are you seeing AI being adopted and you know how how are you guys kind of approaching those discussions what your customers

[00:05:21] Yeah, it's a good point because You know my mother told me today when we have an conversation around AI she said you know as you're explaining this to people you have to help bring context to them

[00:05:34] That it is something that's going to help their organization. She said that the news will paint this as evil that it's going to you know You know get into your bank account steal your money machine uprising is coming right

[00:05:48] Right, and so there's that negative aspect and so in the discussions with clients and prospects that is a real that is a real concern that a lot of the folks have is You know what exactly is it what is it going to do for us? Is it real?

[00:06:03] And the other aspect is is it going to replace people because as business owners we're always looking for ways to be more efficient how we can do more with less and make sure that we're Maximizing

[00:06:17] The focus in the work that's being done because we all have tasks that we want to know that we'd rather focus on

[00:06:25] And we've got a lot of those tasks that just take up and consume a lot of time and so really one of the things we always kind of look at is how do we look at those tasks that we really don't enjoy doing or the repetitive boring task

[00:06:38] And look at those is kind of the starting point and always so folks I don't think it's so much about

[00:06:44] AI is going to replace people there certainly some entry level jobs that it has the potential to replace the functionality that we're seeing that with some of the industries today

[00:06:54] But I see it more as people that know how to leverage and use AI may be replacing people that don't and so as as MSTs and consultant through our clients, it's our duty to make sure that we understand it first

[00:07:09] And show that value show the relationship of what it can provide for them in terms of operations and efficiency

[00:07:17] So that we will calm those concerns we show the advantages and make sure that they understand that this is just a tool not unlike any of the other tools that we've seen in the last 30 years when it comes to technology

[00:07:28] Yeah, and I think you've hit on some great points there, you know there is this fear that it's going to replace jobs I think like anything in life it's going to replace certain jobs but elevate people into new positions, right?

[00:07:39] We had computer operators back in the day, you know, when I have traveled the same path in terms of timeline I made almost all my money selling exchange servers in the 2000s, right?

[00:07:51] And we were all worried we were going to be out of work when office 365 came out Little did we know it was going to create work for us, right? So the reality is there are shifting types and I think AI, you know, from my perspective is great tool

[00:08:04] But it still needs somebody that knows how to operate it knows how to build the right prompts as an example Or knows how to integrate the logic and really call through it to really improve performance on it

[00:08:14] So, you know, I think you're spot on and it sounds like you guys are eating your own dog food, which is an important part too, right?

[00:08:21] I think, you know, MSPs do need to really internally embrace IT or AI excuse me and see where they can take it in order to be able to really have those discussions with the customer

[00:08:33] So maybe you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about how you're approaching that today at Dazzi Yeah, so I mean you're absolutely right. I think for us just again going back to any other technology

[00:08:45] We wouldn't go out and sell something we'd never tested or you know gone through the steps with internally

[00:08:51] You know for our clients that are trying to look at this. So same thing with AI, I think it's important for us to get in and start testing it understand the operations

[00:09:02] Also the constraints, you know from from a data governance perspective that is one of the concerns we have when it comes to AI as As clients are starting to explore tests that employ around with it, you know what's being put out into those AI tools

[00:09:20] Does it call compliance issues? Does it call regulatory issues? Does it call internal data validation issues?

[00:09:28] We got to make sure we're limiting what's out there. So for us, you know, we made the decision internally that we're going to do everything we can to learn it in house to edit house

[00:09:39] And know what what you know our clients are going to be up against before they have to jump in and start figuring it out on their own. So I mean with any other technology

[00:09:49] Everyone that is looking towards technology data braces technology, their anxious started opting that so it's crucial I think to get in ahead and do that. So that's one of the things we've done over the last

[00:10:00] Really year is gone in and look at all the tools that are there, most from you know our MSP tools you know as you mentioned every vendor is looking out of the implement today.

[00:10:11] And you have to be careful of that as well because a lot of the vendors, especially say oh we got the same tool but it's AI now, I'll say that that's the functionality

[00:10:21] You know it some people are just baking it in in some way that it you know it just to have an unlabel right but I think there's you know you hit some of the security concerns you hit some of the content concerns too.

[00:10:33] You know we've when you know at BC I would tool the x we're looking at it as yes we'd like to explore AI to help generate recommendations based off of the facts that people have so it'll move things a little bit quicker.

[00:10:43] You know through the process for you but we have to make sure that data can stay segmented that we're learning the language but we're keeping the customers data isolated to their realm.

[00:10:52] That none of it's getting out into the public space but yet we are contributing to the public where data is not sensitive in order to continue to reap the benefits of that getting stronger too.

[00:11:03] So there's a lot of considerations on how to build an in and also how to harness it in a workflow that really doesn't enhance the clients.

[00:11:10] You know experience within an app versus just having it for that sake of having it right and it's not really bringing anything extra to the party.

[00:11:20] Yeah and I think for us the starting point was to look at what functionality do we want to have AI step in and help us with. And then you know we kind of step through it in a process manner where what are the tasks.

[00:11:36] We're looking to enhance or to bring efficiency to then what are the capabilities of the tools that we're using and that's a whole other process that you've got to step through because.

[00:11:47] Again everyone is starting to say AI it doesn't matter whether it's really that deep in terms of functionality you've got to do your due diligence to explore what's being done there.

[00:11:57] What the capabilities are because one of the things that does concern me is that with the rush to AI you and I've been in the industry similar amount of time. This is probably the fastest adoption and and change within a technology that I've seen today you know.

[00:12:15] I can't even think of another transformation that happened that was at this pace I mean dot com boom was. I guess the closest thing but even that was years worth of change yeah.

[00:12:27] And really what we're seeing this stuff changed overnight by the week you know stuff is it'd be an implemented added. So that that is a concern so exploring those tools probably at first process what's there what what are the capabilities what is it tied to.

[00:12:44] As you're leveraging chat GPT I think everyone knows or most people know at this point you know you've got the public version you get you know private instances whether you're doing that through.

[00:12:54] The chat GPT version or through Azure open AI but you want to make sure that the tools that you're using.

[00:13:02] Where's that being shared and so that was for us we started with what do we want to accomplish what are the capabilities of the tools that we have available and the final piece of that is do we need to bring in additional tools.

[00:13:14] And so that was kind of the roadmap that we used internally it's kind of how we're sparking the conversations with our clients as well.

[00:13:20] Perfect and you know maybe that's where we can segue a little bit into this topic here you know AI and its relationship to business process automation. You know you mentioned just a moment ago it may require more tools and I think really we're.

[00:13:35] I'm looking at the first thing that we're seeing AI you know internally in our places how do we make it enhance the process our teams doing or our end users are doing.

[00:13:44] So it can become a little bit less manual a little bit more automated in a controlled manner right so I'd love to get your take on where you're seeing that actually happen out in the small to bit size business community.

[00:13:56] My language because process automation I fell in love with that that's really what got me involved in technology to begin with it was it called you know business process automation back in and I think business process management work kind of stem from but.

[00:14:09] When I get started in the industry we were starting on SEO unit boxes and I remember the the engineer that came into help us with the deployment. I ran this deployment.

[00:14:21] I was looking at how we've evolved from those basics you know that's cross grips and automations around that to you know those were very much time base you can see that.

[00:14:31] I was looking at how we've evolved from those basics you know that's cross grips and automations around that to you know those were very much time base you ran a script based upon a day in a time.

[00:14:54] I don't know what's really no intelligence there it was just a scheduled script at brand. Now with more of the advanced business process automation tools that are available you know that came into play almost ten years ago when there was more of those tools available.

[00:15:10] Now we're taking things that aren't just scheduled based they're they're action based integrating different tools and into those so that now you can talk to different applications.

[00:15:22] Now you throw an AI as a component into that now you've really got a tool that can leverage not only different tools says different capabilities and different data but some intelligence to go along with it.

[00:15:34] Naturally where I say there is a huge potential for businesses to to latch on really drive some efficiencies and enhance what they're doing not just efficiencies but enhance what they're doing become more competitive in the marketplace do things that their competitors are not doing through the use of the automation capabilities.

[00:15:57] AI gets all the attention because it's this the buzzword today everyone's excited about it but really I think the more valuable aspect of this is business process automation.

[00:16:07] And tying AI into that because that gives you the deliverable whether using one or you know 15 different tools to deliver that.

[00:16:17] Yeah and you know I agree with you completely on that because I think automation has been around for a long time you know we started with scripting automation and things like that in the early days of the.

[00:16:28] RMM tools as well and that really brought a lot of efficiencies to you know our organizations and we've continued on but it's that intelligence piece it's being able to grab information from other sources or.

[00:16:40] You know look at the work that we've done before and really start crafting some you know some knowledge that helps really work the process I mean.

[00:16:48] You know you just look around at tools like thread in and crush bank and some of the tools that are working from a service automation standpoint they're looking at your tickets are able to identify who should be assigned to it and they're putting a timestamp to it.

[00:17:01] That's great you know that's a great starting point that certainly helps educate the end user and hey I'm expected to finish this ticket inside of a half hour or an hour or two hours.

[00:17:11] And really put a fence around it there, but you know in skill base routing obviously helps with making sure the right people at the right price are doing the work.

[00:17:19] But that's just the scratching the surface maybe you could talk a little bit about some of the applications you've seen doing thus far.

[00:17:26] Yeah so internally you know we've done a lot of this stuff that most people in the industry in the MSP space are looking at you automating ticket responses and think like that the basics of time entries those type of things and those are those are great they enhance what you do.

[00:17:40] Having access to pull in knowledge based articles to help you in that that resolution process all this things are good we're looking to expand beyond that so.

[00:17:50] I'll give you an example that we implemented recently and then kind of talk about what we've got on the roadmap for so. In our sales process we follow the sandler sales method I'll do which I know a lot of people do yeah I was a similar guy.

[00:18:06] You know you know that pain money decision framework and making sure that you step through that how critical it is we've even leveraged.

[00:18:14] Private coaches for the sandler system in the past and as we were looking at that and really training our sales people one of the things we looked at is how do we bring business process automation and AI to that work flow so today I'm sure most people are conducting their sales calls at least initially overteens or zoom.

[00:18:32] We've got an AI component that is the note taker on those calls records those calls is the transcript.

[00:18:39] We've gone out we've built an actual custom GPT that's based upon a sandler sales coach that we say we want to monitor for these specific talking points throughout the conversation and then sales process.

[00:18:54] And then we take the transcript and we upload that into that AI model and say okay give us feedback on how we did on this sales call what are the areas that we did well on what are the areas that we need to improve upon.

[00:19:07] Give me some suggested follow up items and it is amazing what we've been able to the glean from that you know things that before without the recording was it was a hindrance to begin with but now we got the actual you know sales call that you can listen to and see the transcript.

[00:19:22] And really gets a customized feedback toward a coach our sales team. And kind of along that line you know one of the things we're looking at it in our roadmap for our service to our customers point forward is calls that come into our service desk.

[00:19:36] You know all of those are recorded to make sure that you know we we have a quality control there so those are going to get uploaded into an analysis where we can see what are the the most common items that people are calling about so that we know.

[00:19:51] You know are the things that we can do from an education perspective to help our audience in our customers understand how to better use the tools are there are their.

[00:20:00] Sentiment sentiment you know sentiment analysis items that we can bring to the table to make sure we're staying on top of any type of problem issues or if they're doing a really good job with a particular one of our tech's or agents.

[00:20:14] Make sure that they're recognized for it so that's kind of that next step in that evolution but it's things like that that. Yeah step outside of the normal just tools that capabilities that.

[00:20:24] You know that it's probably one of the most exciting times in my career in terms of what can we start bringing to the table with technology.

[00:20:30] Well you know it's amazing even what you just talked about from a sales perspective when you think about one of the biggest challenges for almost any MSP it's what we hear all the time is client acquisition finding good sales people who know how to close.

[00:20:42] But the reality is you can't sit there and monitor every call you can't sit there and and work through that process as much as we would like to and still do the things that need to be done in your business.

[00:20:53] So being able to pull those transcripts and kind of analyze them and then put them into a process that you're training all your team on and giving feedback I got to assume that's great both for.

[00:21:03] You know the managers of course you know an understanding where there might be gaps in is this person getting it but also for the for the sales rep, you know they.

[00:21:11] They can see almost in real time hey I missed this here I need to improve this here and kind of try that on the next call so. That's an interesting application and I think you're really hitting upon.

[00:21:22] Dream it and if you can dream it see how AI can potentially enable and support it you know we have all the security considerations all those things of course but what.

[00:21:31] What do you hate doing and what could be better or what's a gap that you're missing and that's a really creative one chain thanks for sharing.

[00:21:39] Yes one that you know as the owner of the business up you know always give feedback on the sales cost of our reps and you know you always kind of wonder am I being too critical.

[00:21:49] And this brings a third party validation to that that it's not just my opinion you got this. You know AI functionality that is giving you that non biased input feedback and our reps actually look forward to that.

[00:22:04] No that's awesome plus you know sometimes when you're in a call you think you've got somebody on the hook right so maybe it can even help you with them why couldn't I get the clothes you know where did I fall down right that was something that I struggled with early in my career you know.

[00:22:18] I was there I spent four minutes on this phone call had him I thought I had him at the doorstep and they told me no. But now it's called.

[00:22:28] I'm pleased to know there's calls that I get off of and then I'm like man that was an excellent sales call I just nailed that and I'll run it through that analysis and I'm like oh crap I forgot to ask this I didn't get that for.

[00:22:42] I completely nailed that right over look you know this big pain point that they gave me and I didn't latch on to and so it gives you that.

[00:22:49] Hey here's how you can go back and make sure that you you throw everything you can at the deal to win it make sure that you're covering all points so.

[00:22:57] So we're getting near the end of our time but I know you were telling me about a new product that you've put together for Dasi as well I'd love to hear a little bit about that and you know how that can help your small business community.

[00:23:10] Yeah so you know I'm I'm a big data nerd have always been a data nerd so it's with the process stuff right.

[00:23:18] Really does my team will tell you when we have our quarterly meetings and our weekly meetings even you know everything is based on data and for me.

[00:23:27] I'm sure as most of the MSV community we started with bright gauge years ago I want to say we were we started with bright gauge back in 2015 2016 sometime and there and so we framed every one of our operations and metrics around that making sure that we're measuring and trying to improve on it.

[00:23:44] But what we found is a lot of our clients didn't have that same visibility into their operations and as we we're talking to them you know it's that's that's would be great if we could get something like that but.

[00:23:55] You know we don't have a data scientist on staff we don't have the tools to deploy this it's expensive and so that's one of the things we decided end of last year in Q3 and Q4 that we wanted to bring a solution to the table for our clients so we we've introduced Dasi data analytics.

[00:24:13] And it's it's a business intelligence platform that we can deliver for our customers we manage it for them. We you know they don't have to have the expertise expertise in house.

[00:24:24] We help them understand what are the leading indicators, living indicators all the KPIs that they need to be measuring and then bring that as it you know is a done for you type service so one of the things that we we'd love being able to deliver to clients because it's how we've operated for the last 10 years almost.

[00:24:41] And I mean the British a lot of transparency in the relationship to which is something that they're looking for so you know that's that's great I mean you know customers being able to get that visibility being able to understand what's driving their business and how they're lagging behind obviously that takes things to a much higher level.

[00:24:58] And certainly tightens the relationship between you and your customer. Yeah. So I'll go ahead. I'm sorry. No, just because last point I make with that is that it ties so closely and look to business process automation because a lot of times the data feeds the need for.

[00:25:15] The automation or vice versa so that's one of the things that it's just really exciting for our clients and the industry is all. Awesome. So listen, if you're listening.

[00:25:27] The podcast you can go to daZ DAZzee e e dot com and then you can see a analytics right there in the front page for those watching on YouTube. You'll see that URL is up on our window right now. Shane any closing thoughts before we wrap up today.

[00:25:42] I guess just as technology leaders in our space that bring solutions to our client I just encourage everyone to really dig in and look at what are you doing around these technologies.

[00:25:56] You want to be on the forefront making sure that you are clients look to you as that leader to help them through the process because as you mentioned, you know, 20 years ago we were worried about making sure we delivered exchange servers to them.

[00:26:09] They have to worry about that now that this is the new extensor for everyone's going to be looking towards stuff. Awesome.

[00:26:15] So you know really appreciate you joining me today Shane again anybody that's looking to connect with Shane I encourage you to will be putting his LinkedIn profile in with our show notes.

[00:26:25] You'll get those notes anywhere you download your podcast including YouTube where you can watch it video as well. I encourage you to reach out to Shane if you have any questions and definitely check out what's going on over at daZzee.

[00:26:37] Shane I want to thank you for joining us today.

[00:26:39] It's always fun to get to have folks that I know come in and tell me things I don't know about them so I really appreciate you sharing a little bit about what you're doing there around AI and business automation and I look forward to chatting again with you soon.

[00:26:53] I always a pleasure Brian appreciate being included. Thank you.