[00:00:00] Ovid Figuro's summers as a teen were spent learning carpentry from his father, building decks, installing windows, helping customers and learning the importance of workmanship. At only 19 he opened his own roofing business, Serrano 2. His strong work ethic showed up everywhere in the business.
[00:00:22] If it wasn't done right, he'd take care of it. But as Ovid's company grew and as he transitioned from roofing to management, he realized that his business was filled with chaos. His desire to jump in and do things right meant that his employees became too dependent on him.
[00:00:38] There was no accountability in the business, no standard his employees could look to for direction. Soon, Ovid's role became defined by his ability to pick up all the pieces when things fell apart. I knew that I was the problem that was happening. It wasn't my people.
[00:00:53] You know, I'm the one that made the choice and hired them. I'm the one that put them in those positions. Everything needed to change and it has to start with the top. If I'm not doing my job, how can they be successful in their job?
[00:01:05] Ovid wanted to do the right thing by his customers, by his employees and for himself. He knew he needed systems to empower his team. But his coach Christina Ellis understood it was also about something deeper.
[00:01:18] The truth about Ovid is that I don't believe it was systems that he was looking for. It was more of him in the business. In the work that Ovid and I have done, yes he has put systems in place but those systems
[00:01:30] have enabled him to put himself more into the business. What he cares about his customers, what he cares about his employees, the things that he values are the things that we have inserted more into the business.
[00:01:43] With Christina's support, Ovid began to slow down, unravel the chaos and instill his values and vision into the company. Now his team is more committed than ever and focused on one clear value, doing the right thing.
[00:01:57] I'll be talking with Ovid and Christina on this month's episode of On It, a production by Emith. Each month we tell the stories of owners and how they transformed their companies. You'll learn about their struggles, their successes and the changes they made to create
[00:02:16] the business they always wanted. One that, in the end, serves the life they want to live. I'm Martin Kamensky, CEO of Emith. Emith is the original business coaching company and over the last three decades we've worked
[00:02:30] with tens of thousands of business owners to help them systematize their business, improve their bottom lines and find more meaning in their work. Schedule a free one hour session with an Emith coach at emith.com. That's E-M-Y-T-H dot com.
[00:02:47] We'll personally match you with a coach based on your industry, location and what help you're looking for. You'll have a real coaching experience and learn the steps necessary to produce both immediate results and long-term change. Learn more on our website, emith.com.
[00:03:04] First of all, thank you both for being willing to do this. I think to start off, I wonder if Ovid, if you could just give people a sense, folks who are listening, tell us a little about Serrano too and how you got this started and what you do.
[00:03:22] My father was a contractor since 1968 and I started working with him summers and weekends in high school. And I fell in love with the roofing end of the business. I really didn't like the carpentry, so when I got out of high school I opened my own
[00:03:40] business running, doing siding and roofing. And just kind of went for it. I really didn't have any education in business. It was just a matter of doing the work. And I just liked doing the work.
[00:03:53] I really didn't feel like I had any other opportunity, so that's the direction I went. And 19 years old, started my own business and gave it a shot and went to the school of hard knocks until I was probably about, I would say my late 20s and started really
[00:04:10] trying to figure things out. My wife was a big drive behind that. She had total confidence in me a lot more than I had in myself. But I could actually do this and become a business person.
[00:04:22] And as time went on, obviously doing roofing, my body just came apart. My back was worn out, my knees, and physically it became a struggle. So by the time I was 32, I was at the point where I just really had to figure a way out.
[00:04:36] I couldn't physically do the work anymore. So it was tough. And at that point I started selling more of the work than actually doing it. And I had one year, I had a very good year selling at that point working out of my house.
[00:04:54] And I figured, well, I need help. I can't do this all myself. I don't know how to get past this point. So I hired a business consultant and we were able to... At that point he actually saved my butt.
[00:05:06] I was moving the office out of my house and I went from about $650,000 in sales to 1.3 that year and I was headed for a loss of about $100,000. So I hired him at the right point where I basically broke even that year.
[00:05:20] And the next year I made money, but that year it was very close to being a bloody mess. And from there just kind of... He helped us put a lot of the structural pieces together over the course of the years. That was about 2004.
[00:05:37] So we had the structural parts, but I never could get between the ear stuff, understanding accountability. I understand what the word was, but the feeling or the meaning of it was totally different. Had to hire the right people, had to put the right people in places.
[00:05:55] Many times I'm sure we had the right people, but we didn't have a place form or any way to really manage them. And it's been just a struggle as things have developed. Can you tell me because the kind of growth that you're talking about
[00:06:13] going from 650 to 1.3 million and having a business that's kicking up that kind of sales, yet the bottom line is not looking like what you wanted? What was that like for you? I mean, it sounds like on the one hand it could be exciting
[00:06:31] and the whole team is getting behind it and things look like they're going really well. But what causes that gap where you're generating a lot of sales, but it's not falling to the bottom line? Well, the problem happens is that growth doesn't necessarily mean profit.
[00:06:46] Once the growth or the speed that the business is running exceeds the ability of the systems, profitability quickly goes down. I didn't have any concept of that at that time. We just figured, well, we sell more, make more. Well, it doesn't work that way. Not always.
[00:07:05] We typically look at if we can build the systems to run the business at 80% of capacity, we can be effective. We went from 80% to almost what, 200%, which just blows it off the wheels. You can't do your bookkeeping. You can't manage your schedule properly.
[00:07:25] You don't have enough quality manpower. You're putting people on jobs that shouldn't be doing things. You're just throwing things at the wall to see if it'll stick. So you have to really build the systems ahead of time before you grow.
[00:07:36] So that way the growth is manageable versus grow and then build the systems to meet it. That's what we learned over the years. And how is it that you first heard about EMIF or what caused you to reach out at that point?
[00:07:52] Well, I've been struggling with the people on this for years. And one of the things that the consultant that I work with, we have a board that contractors can put information on. One of them mentioned the book, one of the EMIF books.
[00:08:08] And so I Googled EMIF and I started looking at it, checked the website out. And I was intrigued by the whole concept. It's just the website was very interesting to me. It was kind of like this is kind of what I need.
[00:08:20] I looked at a few other consultants and coaching programs as well. But really something about it. And then after I spoke with Christina the first time, I knew this was the right thing. You know, it's really about accountability and it's not about
[00:08:36] making your business bigger, sell more, hire more people. It's about working on the systems, the pieces that come together to make the business more profitable and you can hire the right people and you can do the right things. Wow. That's what intrigued me about EMIF.
[00:08:54] Christina, he just said that after talking with you the first time, he thought, whoa, no, this is it. These are the people I want to work with. But what did you say to him, Christina?
[00:09:08] You know, Ovid is a big systems guy and he mentions it over and over again. But yet the truth about Ovid is that it wasn't. It was I don't believe it was systems that he was looking for. It was more of him in the business.
[00:09:22] And I think that as business owners, not just Ovid, but most business owners in general don't realize what they want more in the business is of themselves. Right. So you get knocked around by your business. You have people quit, you have customers beat you up.
[00:09:39] You start to withdraw from the business, which is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen. You have to have more of yourself in the business. And the work that Ovid and I have done, yes, he has put systems in plays,
[00:09:50] but those systems have enabled him to put himself more into the business. What he cares about his customers, what he cares about his employees, the things that he values are the things that we have inserted more into the business.
[00:10:04] So to answer your question, Martin, what I helped him see was is that, you know, first we had to hold him accountable and then we were going to teach him how to hold his employees accountable.
[00:10:16] And how does that feel of it as as somebody who started their own business at 19 years old? And I can only imagine what that must have felt like at 19 years old to set out on your own and try to make a go of it.
[00:10:32] To have somebody tell you that you need to be accountable to somebody. Was that did that idea land naturally to you or did it stir up questions for you? What was that like? Absolutely. I mean, that's what got me when I spoke to Christina is
[00:10:51] that I knew that I was the problem that was happening. It wasn't my people. You know, I'm the one that made the choice and hired them. I'm the one to put them in those positions. Something needed to change and it has to start with the top.
[00:11:05] You know, you don't start cutting off at the bottom. You know, you got to figure out whether it was there or the problem. They're not the problem. You hired them. You gave them the rules, you know, if I'm not doing my job,
[00:11:17] how can they be successful in their job? And when Christina talked about me being accountable, well, let's start right there because it all starts at the top and flows down, you know, that's exactly what I needed. It made perfect sense.
[00:11:31] For the folks listening, there's a process in our EMIF curriculum that's about transforming your frustrations. And Christina, I was wondering if you might tell everyone a little about that and how it might apply to something like this where
[00:11:47] where you look where you're not looking necessarily at the people who are the end result of the issue, but you try to drive backwards to get at the real cause. Yeah, sure. Martin, that's one of my favorite processes that we teach
[00:12:01] and it's the simplicity of it that makes it so wonderful and easy to use. And I encourage all my clients to learn it, know it, live it, and then teach it to their managers. So basically the idea is if something is bothering you in your business,
[00:12:19] you know, we want to say, oh, it's my employees fault or I have really cranky customers or whatever that is. And it turning frustrations in the solutions helps you see if you dig far enough and if you are actually the leader in the business,
[00:12:34] if you dig far enough, it really has to do with you. And so once you are OK with saying that about yourself and you take that responsibility, then you have the control to fix it. So I always tell my clients there's good news and bad news, right?
[00:12:50] The bad news is, is you own the business, you're the leader, you're responsible for the business. The good news is you are the leader, you own the business, you're responsible for the decisions that are made. And so by taking over that control,
[00:13:03] you now have the ability to make the business into anything that you want to make it into. Transforming frustrations into solutions is just one more tool to help you get to that point. Yeah, I love the good news part of that.
[00:13:16] And that's I love that way of putting it too. I always like to lead with that part of it because I don't think it's the side that's easily apparent right away. But in a way, yeah, it's about taking accountability
[00:13:29] and for some people out there being the owner of a business, you might feel, hey, I'm accountable for plenty of things. I'm accountable for all these people's salaries. I'm accountable for the results we're producing. I'm accountable for the mortgage on the property.
[00:13:42] And there's a lot of accountability on me. And so why would I want just one more person or one more thing? Telling me, hey, you've got to be responsible for this too. But the flip side to it, that good part that you're talking about
[00:13:58] is it's also a tool to help you take things that as a business owner, you feel are happening to you that are out of your control. What am I going to do about this? The business is stuck. I can't drive more sales.
[00:14:11] I can't have the people here that I need to get to have the business functioning well. Things that might feel like they're totally out of your control. And it's about making them back within your control. You can do something about it.
[00:14:24] You can change it if you realize that that change can start in you and that you have ways you can touch those problems. Yes. So let me come back to your story of it. And you reached out to Christina. You got the ball rolling.
[00:14:43] What was what was one of the first processes that the two of you worked on together? We started with values, passion and purpose. Yeah, that was that was interesting because I never I don't think I've ever thought that much in my entire life.
[00:14:57] I mean, if I combined all the thought I've ever had, I don't think it equal just don't get it hurt. It hurt trying to really kind of dig deep and and and and come up with the answers or come up with exactly
[00:15:12] what what I felt, you know, and what our purpose was and where our values were. And I think a lot of it, too, is I have I struggle when people like when I have customers that are happy and praise us, I struggle with praise. I'm more happy.
[00:15:24] You know, I'm not necessarily happy and more comfortable when people aren't happy. I can deal with the chaos very well. I'm good under fire. So it was difficult for me to think of all the what is what is our passion? What is our purpose?
[00:15:36] What do you know all the things that are good about us that makes us who we are? But we got through it. I mean, it was it was like a root canal, man. It was it was really painful and difficult, but it was very important to get there.
[00:15:48] You know, I'm glad we did. That's I don't know that that's awesome. And I'm also a little terrified of the idea of comparing us to a root canal. Just just personally speaking, I used to I used to talk about my old business and say that working with me
[00:16:04] was less painful than a root canal. So but but bottom line is so tell tell me some more about that. I love that this was a process that you took seriously and that Christina pushed you to to take seriously enough that you really got to something deep.
[00:16:21] What did what did you come to at the end of that? What what was the result that that you reached after all that digging? Well, I mean, one of the things I talk to everyone that works for me and anybody pretty much is if you do
[00:16:33] the right thing for people, money takes care of itself. If you're in business just for the money, you know, you're always going to be running after money and trying to get money. But if you if your business is here to do the right thing
[00:16:44] and help people, the money is just going to take care of itself. Everyone's going to do well. Your employees, your customer is going to be happy and you've done the right thing for them. And I think what it came out of it was that, you know,
[00:16:54] our you know, our who we are as we do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, you know, whatever the cost. And I think that was something that took me a while to really understand even though I knew it, I had never verbalized it.
[00:17:08] And that's the thing is when you say something out loud, it becomes reality. When you think it, it's not necessarily an emotion of feeling, you know, something that's more powerful. Making the choice to do the right thing, whatever the cost,
[00:17:26] it's an idea that I know a lot of people would love to say. They would love to say that they do it. It gets scary where the rubber meets the road and you have to actually pull out your pocketbook and start paying the people back for work
[00:17:38] that might be a little subpar or whatever the case is, whatever the example is. What was... I ripped off entire roofs and replaced them, no charge because I made a mistake. I mean, that's my, you hired me, you made the commitment.
[00:17:52] That's why we charge what we charge to make a living so that where there's profit in the business so my employees have a good living. So my customers know that we're gonna be there for them. So when we make a mistake, we are there for you,
[00:18:02] we're gonna do it. It's pretty compelling, right? I have to tell you something, Martin, if I can break in here. When I first met Ovid, he said something to me in our very first call together and he said,
[00:18:18] he was very proud of the fact that if it all hits the fan that he will always win. Do you remember saying that, Ovid? Yeah, yeah. And I thought at that moment, this is a man that's externally motivated. And so I had to figure out
[00:18:34] where to find his internal compass. And I have to tell you, when he did his values, passion and purpose and I can vouch for you, Ovid does mean that. When he says you do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, he lives by that.
[00:18:49] And it was after he did the values, passion and purpose that there became such a strong internal light inside of him that my job became easy at that point. And since then, Ovid has been a sponge with Emyth and the processes.
[00:19:09] He has shown a whole new light on the way that we do Emyth and that's why I'm so touched by him and what he's done with his business. Yeah, I can imagine that. Thank you, Christina. You're very welcome. You know, oh look at that.
[00:19:28] You are getting better at accepting praise. I'm working on it. I need that lesson too. It's something I know I struggle with as well. So I can relate when you say that. You bring this VPP, your values, passion and purpose to life.
[00:19:51] I can imagine that it's got a change on you. It's gonna stir some things up and change the way you start to orient to the company. But did you notice any change outside of yourself, maybe in the business or with some of the people
[00:20:07] once that idea became more clear for you? I never looked at it as I would do this any other way. So I didn't have an option, in other words, doing business differently. My employees saw it because other jobs they've had, people didn't have that commitment.
[00:20:23] But I think what happened is we started seeing not so much value, passion and purpose. But we started doing some of the other modules as where things started changing in my business because that's when the pressure was on for people to be accountable.
[00:20:36] So Christina, where did you take him from there after the VPP was done? Ovid wrote his vision for his company. And it was very difficult for Ovid because he did not take it lightly. Yeah, I think that was important to look at it too.
[00:20:51] Because I mean, I've been through so much in the last three or four years. We had a downturn with the economy and I had terminated a bunch of people and then we spent three years paying back debt from the slowdown. And now we were in a good position
[00:21:06] and joined EMIS to help get through. And we started implementing, it was the personal organization and time management and trying to implement this within our people. And I started getting resistance from some of my employees as far as this transition. They didn't believe that things could be better.
[00:21:26] They didn't think that we could change anything where things would be more effective and more efficient. They just felt that this was it. And that's when the real pressure came because we weren't going backwards. We joined EMIS to make change and create change and make things better.
[00:21:43] And there's no going backward at that point. Once you're moving forward in this forward momentum, either you're with us or you're not. And if you're not, you're gonna have to go a whole other direction and get another job. And that's when the pressure really kicked in
[00:21:58] and we saw who was on board and who wasn't. And we saw what we, the important part of that too is we saw what kind of people we wanted and what kind of people we didn't. We started really realizing that, you just can't fit people in there.
[00:22:13] It has to be the right people. That was the most important thing. And it's anytime you make people change in the organization, anytime you're adjusting that, it's a stress on the organization in a way. And definitely stressful for the business owner.
[00:22:32] But does it feel worth it to you? I mean, when you're going through that, is it scary? Is it a nervous kind of thing when people start coming up to you and saying, hey, this direction you're going, this isn't me.
[00:22:48] I don't need to be a part of this. What was that like for you? Well, one of the first things which helped me through that, which most people don't really understand is that when businesses change, good people are going to lose their jobs.
[00:23:04] So the people that left, they weren't bad people. They just no longer fit the business. I needed to help them understand that that it wasn't something that they were doing wrong. It's just that they didn't want to do this anymore and that was okay.
[00:23:17] And they needed to move on and do something they were happier with. And that was the most important part. You could help them move along and let them know that, help them make that choice to go versus you firing them for bad behavior or not doing their job.
[00:23:34] So that makes it a lot easier. Yeah, yeah. What was the impact on the rest of your team? I'm wondering. Well, the interesting part is is that they see it more than I did at the top because there's so many moving parts. I'm paying attention to,
[00:23:49] and I think I'm better at this now seeing it than I was then. But they saw it, who really didn't fit in before I did. When they left, we talked about it and it became one of those things. They weren't following through
[00:24:04] with some of the changes we were doing. They were creating the resistance which are creating problems versus working as a team towards the goal. And the people that wanted to be here stayed and the people that didn't, they moved along.
[00:24:20] It sounds like for the folks who are left, they're left and they're left in a much better place as a result of that. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in my case, the ones that were left were left in a better place, but they understaffed,
[00:24:37] struggling to make it work with fewer people and willing to go through some of that pain to knowing what they can see as well, not just my vision, but through going through some of these modules with them and they could see how it was gonna work
[00:24:54] and how it would be beneficial and they could see what was on the other side. So they were excited for that growth and that change as well, which makes it a lot easier for me as an owner as I'm pushing through and going through this pain,
[00:25:07] it makes it a lot easier for me to do it because I've got people there that are willing to do it with me. If you could sum it up, what do you think was communicated in that vision that were these points of change?
[00:25:21] You know, you're talking about change happening in the business. What were you intentionally trying to shift when you adopted this new vision? I think the big thing with the vision was just being less owner-driven. I was struggling with spending so much time
[00:25:39] doing all the sales and project management at all different levels. I didn't have the people that were accountable. If I may, Ovid, I think Martin would. So once Ovid wrote his vision, the second part to that is writing your key strategic indicators
[00:25:54] and that's to find those benchmarks in the vision that you truly wanna hit that are very important to you. So the vision is a working living document in the business. It's not just something that gets put in the drawer. The way that you make it work
[00:26:07] and live in the business is you write your key strategic indicators. For Ovid, he wrote the four areas that he really wanted to focus on were quality product, employee satisfaction, customer satisfaction, and the follow through of his brand commitment. And so by writing those key strategic indicators,
[00:26:26] introducing them to his employees, his employees could now feel a part of where this company was going. Would you say that's correct, Ovid? Oh yeah, that's right on. I'm just imagining what it's like to be an employee of its company
[00:26:43] and he drops some new key strategic indicators on my desk. How did you even explain that to your team? Well, first thing, if you knew me, you would understand how hard I work and it's not, I'm not bragging about it, but it's just completely insane.
[00:27:00] So wherever we're going, they understand we're serious about it and we're gonna go there. But the biggest thing is all them wanted me to work less at it as well because they see what I do to myself. I've worked long hours and some way possible,
[00:27:18] I have no idea how I do it. I'm able to maintain a family life, make it to all my school stuff, get to the gym, make it to vacation with my wife. We go away for four to six weeks a year on vacation.
[00:27:31] I mean, all the things that we do, meanwhile still driving the business, and they realize that when we come up with a goal and a plan, we're serious about it and we're gonna implement it and we're gonna do the pieces. The big thing that was different was that
[00:27:44] I was bringing my employees into it with a plan versus it being in my head. And that's where they got excited that they could see it, it was written, it made sense, it looked doable, it didn't look impossible. It all appeared achievable to them and that's the key.
[00:28:04] You're not coming up with some crazy plan that they're going, oh, here we go again. It has to make sense and be clear and concise. The plan, I think Christina talked about it. The direction we're going is east, is not a good plan, but if you talk about
[00:28:23] the streets and the roads you're gonna take, route 17 to the highway and down to American Avenue, now that's good direction that you're gonna be heading to get there. So I think that was the key to it. They enjoyed it and they were motivated.
[00:28:40] When a while back you mentioned that early on in the process, Christina had you working on things like self-organization and time management also. So the values, passion, purpose, VPP, the vision, those are 30,000 feet kind of work and kind of processes. And then you've got self-organization
[00:29:04] and time management which is a lot more of a boots on the ground kind of project. Christina, can you explain why you might have had him doing those both early on and almost maybe at the same time? Sure, so in order for me to get over his attention
[00:29:22] to do his vision and his values, passion, purpose, we had to find time this day. We had to figure out how he could offload a few of the minutia projects that he was taking care of that he was convinced only he could do.
[00:29:36] So part of that getting his attention to go to that 30,000 foot level and look at the business, there's very realistic things, technician things that you have to do with your clients to help them in their day-to-day business. And so self-organization, time management,
[00:29:56] I think it changed over the world because it gave him, again, it gave him that control over his life. It gave him control over how he spends his most valuable resource, which is time. Would you say that's fair Ovid? Yes, very fair.
[00:30:12] Yeah, tell me more about what that change was like for you in your day-to-day. Well, I mean it went from there's a gigantic pile of stuff and let me shuffle through it to get to the easiest one to get done to,
[00:30:28] I'm not kidding, you should have seen the pile. To, you're getting things done in organized fashion. I do an estimate, I complete it while I'm there, I hand in the paperwork, you're handing off documents as they're supposed to be done. You have time scheduled for a meeting
[00:30:42] to give information over versus opening your door and yelling out to the other people every five minutes, something. There's a time and a place for everything. There's no room for hallway management and that helps everybody, not just me, but that helped everybody as well
[00:31:02] be just so that much more effective once we implemented it with everyone company-wide. Yeah, just makes things move. Hallway management? Yeah. What are you talking about? Me walking into your office or walking by your desk and throwing stuff on the desk and talking to you
[00:31:21] every time something comes into my mind. So just because it's in my mind and it's there right now, doesn't mean I should be bringing it to your attention. Okay, I know that's a strange concept but you're not supposed to do that. It's how most business owners work, right?
[00:31:37] You walk around whatever comes to the top of mind and drop it on whoever the nearest employee is that happens to be in your presence or may even be the wrong department, you never know. I love that. I love that you grabbed onto that
[00:31:54] and that when you talk about it that way, it really drives home the impact that it has not only for you but for everyone on your team. And that's one of the things that I love hearing about is not just the change that's happening for the business owner
[00:32:09] but all of a sudden they start to realize the ways that the work that they're doing is actually making the lives of their staff better. Their employees are actually happier when they come home from work at the end of the day
[00:32:21] and this gotta feel great as the owner of a company because it didn't cost you an extra dollar. You're not having to hike up their pay to make them feel better, you're just making their work relationship better. Well, people don't necessarily want more money.
[00:32:35] People wanna feel like they've done good and they're appreciated and I think that's an important part and if they can be motivated by these successes that you've given them the plan, this was how to be organized but they have to take it and run with it
[00:32:50] and if they can do that, they automatically are feeling better about themselves if they're implementing it and it's successful and they feel more efficient and effective. It's not about money, it's about their successful in their position and if they do it right and they're accountable,
[00:33:05] eventually they're gonna make more money. That's just how the process works but I think one of the visuals with the whole thing was I remember one of the people in the office saying, I remember when there used to be dust and paper flying
[00:33:16] and now you walk in and all you hear is typewriter type. That's how things, that's literally how much things have changed or that's what they are seeing the difference. Wow. Dust and paper to typewriters. Wow, wow. Christina, I wanna talk more about his people
[00:33:35] and Ove was telling us about how he was cycling through a lot of people and not necessarily having the right people on the right job. What was the state of his human resources and affairs when you first started working together? He was building up,
[00:33:55] they were coming off of a low and he was building up and so he wanted to make sure that he was gonna get the right people. He had learned that before E-Muth came along, he had learned through the highs and the lows
[00:34:08] of his business that management was a big part of it and so he was starting to build up. The problem was I think was that he still had some people left over that enjoyed that chaos and so when Ovid started introducing the idea of
[00:34:26] KSI's and self-organization for his team, they didn't want any part of that and so that's when he started, as he so eloquently said that it's not that they're bad people, they just were a bad fit for where he was taking the business. That's when we began working on,
[00:34:46] so if we were to look at the business from the outside, from a customer-centric point of view, how is it that you want your company to look and Ovid came to the idea that he did not want an office manager, he wanted a customer satisfaction manager
[00:35:03] or a customer experience manager and so that's what we then began working on in the management aspect is hiring, recruiting that person, what does that person look like? Down to the very finest details of who that person is and I think that after the work that he did,
[00:35:20] position agreements, hiring, recruiting process, questionnaires, out of 60, 70, 80, 90 some candidates resumes, he got his person and he knew when he interviewed her that she was the one. So Ovid, you have to make a vision, you have to identify what your values and purpose are
[00:35:43] as a company, you have to make a hiring plan and strategy and develop all this documentation about how you recruit people and that sounds like a lot of work or you could just turn it over to a hiring agency
[00:35:57] and let them staff you up when times get full. Is one really more work than the other? How did it work out for you? Well we've used staffing agencies before, I mean the key to the hiring process was going through everything we did since I started working
[00:36:14] with Christina in order to understand really what I needed and that was the hard, this person never would have been hired 12 months ago. I never would have even considered this person for the position because of my preconceptions at that point versus what we've gone through,
[00:36:32] understanding what we really need, I'm looking at a completely different person and then within that hiring process, like Christina said we had 70, 80, 90 applicants, we narrowed it down to six and we had come up with, Christina helped me come up with these three questions
[00:36:48] I had to ask and of the six, two of them got it and one of them nailed all three questions to a T and I knew that was the one we needed to bring in for the second interview. We ended up interviewing two but that person nailed it.
[00:37:03] I never would have been able to narrow it down that quickly directly to the type of person we wanted before, it never would have happened. Never, I mean it was impossible had we not gone through this entire process and she's working out really well right now
[00:37:19] and she's doing a fantastic job, she's exactly what we were hoping we would have got. If I think that's what you need to do if you're gonna do this properly and you're gonna run a business properly these are the commitment you need to make,
[00:37:30] this is the price, this is the cost of doing it. If you're gonna cut corners on it and form it out to somebody else you're just gonna have to expect to not have the results that you really want. Don't be upset if you're not getting those results.
[00:37:44] And what have the results been like for you? Let's first just touch on financially in the company where you've been and where you're at now. Well this last year we struggled office manager had employees leave some other issues so we actually got to a point over the summer
[00:38:00] where we were struggling being shorthanded we just slowed the business down versus continue at the pace we normally do so our sales were actually down this year about 10%. But that's, we needed to do that to not mess up the customer service on to get things right,
[00:38:20] to make sure we fix the systems instead of just continue pushing harder than we could with the staff we had while we were trying to fix the systems and then get the right people back in so we could build back up.
[00:38:31] So we had to literally break it down and cut sales and lose a little money in order to do the rebuild and put ourselves in this position this year to step it back up. So that's kind of part of that plan as well
[00:38:44] is understanding that there are times where you just have to slow it down to really make things work. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I, hang on. You just told the CEO of EMIF that you started coaching and your sales dropped 10%. Am I talking to an unhappy customer right now?
[00:39:04] Is that a state of things? I'm probably one of the happiest customers that you've got. I wouldn't be here today if I was an unhappy customer. As a matter of fact, that's what needed to happen had I not joined EMIF
[00:39:15] that still be on the same path I was on without the improvement we've made. And the fact of the matter is at times this is just the price that needs to be paid to fix a business. It's not, you can't always continue growth if things are broken.
[00:39:32] Sometimes you just gotta cut back and fix them and that's just the price you're gonna pay. And Christina, what's working for him right now? What do you see that's really clicked in Ovid's business? When I hear Ovid talk about his business, it just, it warms my heart.
[00:39:47] I have so much respect for him and so much pride for what he's done. Ovid is very particular about his, obviously he's particular about his employees, but he's also very particular about his customers. And when he says he'll rip off an entire roof
[00:40:08] and re-put it on if he does something wrong, it's because he believes in his customers. He has a very specific way that he gets customers and they become really a part of his business. They're there for life. And so yes, his sales may have gone down 10%,
[00:40:26] but I think that what he has accomplished over the course of the last year and a half or so is above and beyond amazing for that, what he had to give up that 10%. Yeah, and if I can say something, our sales aren't down 10% because of EMIF.
[00:40:44] It was a conscious choice to sell less work than to continue selling work we could not get done. You know, it wasn't a result of joining EMIF. It was a conscious choice to not mess my business up and be able to work on it and keep it manageable.
[00:41:00] And I think Ovid knows too that when it's time to ramp that back up, he very much is in control of that and knows how to do that. When he has the team in place to give the customer experience the way that he wants to,
[00:41:16] he's very aware of how he ramps that back up. It's not just a shot in the dark for him. Yeah, it's like going 90% of the way in the direction you're supposed to go still puts you better off than going 100% of the way
[00:41:31] in the direction that you're not really aiming for. It's like when I was at $650,000 in sales and went to 1.3 million. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't good. Exactly, exactly. And what else do you feel changing in your life right now, you know, other than the numbers, other than the financials?
[00:41:50] What about your life? I mean, every business, some business owners have a hard time identifying their life outside of the business, but what's changed or shifted for you if anything in that area? Well, I mean, I don't think on a personal level,
[00:42:05] my personal life is that I've always been able to manage that with the business. I get to all my Boy Scout meetings with my son. I do all the after-school activities with my daughter. I had that time with my family.
[00:42:16] I don't subject my wife to a lot of those things. What I am seeing is that I'm not working Sunday mornings to get paperwork done I couldn't have done or a Saturday afternoon, or I'm not coming in at 6 a.m., but I'm coming in now at 7 a.m.
[00:42:33] I'm not staying late. I'm home most nights now by 5, 5.30. So I'm losing a lot of the hours that I would have to get things done because it was my responsibility. And the people that we brought in are taking a lot of that over,
[00:42:48] or even my staff that has stayed on have helped and they've taken on more responsibilities and taken a lot of that over. So the quality of my work life has gotten much better, leaving me more refreshed for my personal life. Yeah, I like that.
[00:43:07] And Christina, would you say that you got anything out of this relationship coaching and working with Ovid? We always talk about what the client gets out of it and what their results are. But I'm just curious this time if there's anything that you're taking
[00:43:23] or walking away with from this relationship. Yeah, I actually, I feel guilty that Ovid pays for EMIF every month because of the value that I get out of our relationship when he came on to EMIF and coaching. He came on as the typical technician
[00:43:37] and he has made a big difference in who I am as a coach. Ovid has certain challenges that we've had to overcome together and he has made me a better person and a better coach for having had to overcome those challenges. Well, I love hearing that.
[00:44:02] Yeah, I don't know how you feel Ovid but I love hearing that. Thank you, Christina. I mean that means a lot to me. That's moving. Well thank you Ovid. You have been a gift of a client. You really have. I appreciate that. I don't feel like that often.
[00:44:23] I feel like I'm more difficult. I love your story and it's inspiring to me also the way you've committed to this. Having started something when you're 19 and sticking through it through all the ups and downs and it sounds like you've been on a roller coaster ride
[00:44:43] or two in a couple different ways. But sticking through it and realizing that you have the power, that you can still turn this into something that reflects you, that you're proud of, that it represents what you value and what you wanna bring into the world
[00:45:00] and to do it in a way that's comfortable and that still honors your life and gives space for what you're trying to do. I think if you don't stop and recognize that you've achieved something that so many business owners out there today are struggling to do,
[00:45:22] I think you're cutting yourself short because your story is really a remarkable one. Yeah, no, I'm not cutting myself short. I mean, I realize that we put a lot into it and it's a lot of effort that I put in to really reflect on myself
[00:45:36] to make the changes that are necessary has been key. The hardest part is changing yourself and if you're not willing to change yourself, the chaos is gonna continue around you. But the other part of that is making sure you're making good decisions
[00:45:49] with hiring the people that you work with. Joining E-Muth, I knew Christina was the right one and she's made that commitment and she's just as committed to me as I am to my customers and that was the key when I spoke to her the first time.
[00:46:02] I knew she was the person I wanted to work with. She was gonna be honest with me, tell me how it was, not just butter me up and tell me I'm doing great and it's not a fact. And I think those are important factors.
[00:46:14] You wanna surround yourself with the right people as well to help you be the best you can. But I'm proud of what I've done, I really am. I'm proud of the work Christina and I have done as well together. It's been great. Thank you, Ovid. You're welcome.
[00:46:29] Awesome, awesome. I wanna thank both of you too for taking some time out of your day to share your stories with us and to share it with all the listeners and I wish you both a lot of continued success in your journey together.
[00:46:43] It sounds like you are not only clear about the direction you want things to go but you're headed off and doing well in moving along that path. So congratulations and thanks to you both. Thank you very much. Thank you, Martin. Thanks for listening to On It by E-MIF.
[00:47:00] We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast. Leave us your comments on our blog at blog.emith.com or email any feedback to info at emith.com. And if you like the show, please leave us a review on iTunes or a like on SoundCloud.
[00:47:14] We really appreciate it. You can also schedule a free one hour session with an E-MIF coach and have your own coaching experience at emith.com. You can learn more about our clients and coaches by visiting our website.