Harnessing Centers of Influence (COIs) to Drive MSP Growth

[00:00:02] Welcome to the Powered Services Podcast, your go-to source for all things MSP.

[00:00:11] Each episode, we're diving deep into the world of MSPs, exploring cutting-edge solutions, strategies, and insights that empower you to supercharge your services.

[00:00:23] Join us as we connect with industry experts, thought leaders, and tech visionaries who are reshaping the managed services landscape.

[00:00:32] Plug in, power up, and prepare to elevate your MSP game to the next level.

[00:00:39] Now, here's your host, Dan Tomaszewski.

[00:00:47] Greetings, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Powered Services Podcast.

[00:00:52] So excited to have you guys all with us today as we have a special guest with us.

[00:00:58] I've brought on Roger Michelson, CEO of BNMC, a new charter company.

[00:01:04] Roger, thanks for being with me today.

[00:01:07] Yeah, thanks, Dan.

[00:01:08] Happy to be here.

[00:01:09] Yeah, look, Roger, I recently heard you speak at a peer meeting around this topic, and it's a topic that I see and hear MSPs really investing in inside of their MSPs.

[00:01:20] And, you know, we're really trying to help people as they go to market here on the Powered Services Podcast is how can we help everybody?

[00:01:27] And you do something really awesome around centers of influence.

[00:01:31] And I'd like maybe just to start off, you know, and just tell everybody a little bit about what is a center of influence coming from you who is an MSP CEO.

[00:01:41] Let's talk about just what is a center of influence.

[00:01:44] Exactly.

[00:01:45] So we've built our business over the last 17 years, you know, primarily leveraging center of influence.

[00:01:52] And the way we look at it is it's our network.

[00:01:55] It's our partners and our customers and the people that we know in the Boston metro area that we work with.

[00:02:05] And specifically trying to leverage referrals.

[00:02:10] And everybody knows in the MSP business that the easiest number one way to get a new customer is referral.

[00:02:16] It's also the hardest way to get a new customer.

[00:02:19] Yeah.

[00:02:19] But when you have that trusted entity, it's great.

[00:02:21] And that's what we're leveraging circle of influence, really our partner network for.

[00:02:26] Yeah.

[00:02:26] So can we talk about that for a couple seconds?

[00:02:28] Because you said something there.

[00:02:30] You know, it's one of the things I hear the most right now from a lot of MSPs is look, the referrals aren't there like they were five years ago.

[00:02:36] Like I'm not getting the referral train like, you know, of comments and people that are giving it to me.

[00:02:42] So they're looking at other ways of marketing.

[00:02:44] But when you look at the center of influence, circle of influence, you know, however we look at it, what specific outcomes have you seen in your business?

[00:02:53] Working with the different people in your COI in regarding to like revenue, new clients, referrals.

[00:02:58] Can you kind of expand on that?

[00:03:01] Absolutely.

[00:03:02] So first off, from our aspects, the referral business is still there and it's still live and active, actually even more so, I believe, than it has been in the past.

[00:03:13] But I think one of the things that we've seen over the years is you have to really actively work your circle of influence.

[00:03:19] You have to work your network.

[00:03:21] And it's a constant process, just like any marketing initiative.

[00:03:24] It's not a one-shot stop, basically.

[00:03:27] So, for example, you know, we have a list and an active database of partners that we work with, not customers and not prospects.

[00:03:38] We have those two, but really partners that are in our COI network that we're going to reach out constantly and also have events periodically to bring them all together.

[00:03:48] And it's really at top of mind.

[00:03:50] And they have business that they're trying to grow their business just like we're trying to grow ours.

[00:03:55] So it's a win-win.

[00:03:57] So talk about that then.

[00:03:58] So you've got people that are in your COI.

[00:04:01] How do you guys, I mean, is it run by you?

[00:04:04] Is BNMC in charge of that?

[00:04:06] Are you the one that's running this?

[00:04:08] And what does that look like when you're talking and how do you engage?

[00:04:13] Like what type of events are you guys doing?

[00:04:16] Can you kind of take us down that path a little bit?

[00:04:18] Absolutely.

[00:04:18] Sure.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:19] So we'll give an example.

[00:04:21] So we will have periodic events throughout the year.

[00:04:24] And an event really looks like a cocktail hour or two at a local restaurant in the metro area that's convenient for partners to come by.

[00:04:34] And the partners that we're inviting are companies that we actively work with, like the cabling guys or electricians or attorneys or insurance brokers or law firms, the people that are working basically for either us or for our customers.

[00:04:56] And what's most important is we're trying to constantly build that partner network, and we want the partners to be companies that have a similar type of customer that we're going after, right?

[00:05:11] So, for example, if we're working with a cabling or a telecom agent, we want to make sure that they're looking for small to midsize businesses in the Boston metro area, in our case, that are from 30 to 200 employees.

[00:05:25] Like that's our market.

[00:05:27] And so we want to partner with them, and we want to have an event where we bring them and other people together to network and share ideas and just be top of mind that, hey, BNMC is here, and everybody's networking to share information.

[00:05:45] So do you run that, though?

[00:05:47] Yes.

[00:05:47] So you guys, are you marketing the group?

[00:05:50] Or is it like, are you like, I'm just curious, like if I'm a CEO listening to this, and I'm like, this is a really great idea.

[00:05:57] I want to start something like this.

[00:05:59] How did it start?

[00:06:00] Like, how do you reach out?

[00:06:01] How do you get people in there?

[00:06:02] I mean, it sounds like they're people that you've done business with, you've vetted.

[00:06:07] They've got a similar book of business.

[00:06:09] So we get that, like the demographic of who's going to be in there.

[00:06:13] How do I get them to come and partake in this?

[00:06:16] Like, how do you reach out and like incentivize someone to want to come in and partake in this?

[00:06:21] Right.

[00:06:21] Well, I think it's important to understand that the circle of influence is not like a BNI group.

[00:06:27] Sure.

[00:06:27] Okay.

[00:06:28] This, it's, it's, it's really, this is a list of BNMC trusted partners, and we add to them all the time.

[00:06:35] And some people drop off.

[00:06:37] And when we have events, we run the event, we host it, we pay for it.

[00:06:41] We don't charge anything for it.

[00:06:43] So for $1,000, you could have a cocktail hour, you know, or two hours with drinks, appetizers, and try to get 25 to 30 people attending.

[00:06:57] And that's a successful event.

[00:06:59] That's a successful COI networking event.

[00:07:01] And you're not asking for anything.

[00:07:03] No sales pitches.

[00:07:05] Okay.

[00:07:06] Just bring people together, have them network, make sure that you remind them what your company does.

[00:07:12] And a lot of times we say, hey, what's the right customer for BNMC?

[00:07:17] And when I talk to a partner, like a telecom agent, I say, what's the right customer for you?

[00:07:23] And the magic in the COI is you have to give as much as you receive.

[00:07:28] Okay.

[00:07:28] If you're not giving referrals to the network, then you're not going to get anything back.

[00:07:34] It's like, it's an age old adage.

[00:07:36] If I scratch your back, you scratch mine.

[00:07:38] So it's not only bringing people together.

[00:07:41] It's constantly thinking, hey, I want to give you a referral and help your business.

[00:07:47] And when you get something, you'll give something back to me.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] And you said something there that I think a lot of people miss.

[00:07:54] And for me, when I had my MSP, it was the home run strategy.

[00:07:58] I heard from people all the time, whether it was a chamber, a BNI, a rotary, or like you said, like a COI group.

[00:08:05] Everyone's like, they don't work.

[00:08:07] And I'm like, explain to me why they don't work.

[00:08:10] And when you really get down to the root cause of it, it's because they go in there, they say what they're looking for to the group in a 30-second commercial, and then they go back every time.

[00:08:19] I went into every meeting, and I went and spent time with every individual.

[00:08:24] I would pick a different person or a couple people.

[00:08:26] Hey, Roger, what's a really good referral for you?

[00:08:30] I'd love to know.

[00:08:30] So like when I'm out in the community, I understand what's a good referral for you.

[00:08:34] And then I would make sure they know what's a good referral to me.

[00:08:37] They might be a one-person shop, but they may be connected to my best referral came from a one-person masseuse who referred a $22,000 a month manufacturing company to me because she knew it was an ideal customer for me, fit the right size.

[00:08:55] And I had taken the time to spend and let her know what a good referral for me was, and I knew what a good referral for her was.

[00:09:01] So like I really like that you said that because you're investing time in having that conversation.

[00:09:06] So everybody knows what's good for them, and they can be out.

[00:09:10] But you have to take it one step further, right?

[00:09:12] So I'll give you an example.

[00:09:14] If your partner – if you have a bunch of telecom agents, and they do VoIP business, and they say anybody that's a good referral is a company looking for new internet circuits or new voiceover IP opportunities.

[00:09:27] We can do voiceover IP, but that's not our specialty.

[00:09:31] It's not our business.

[00:09:32] So if I get a phone opportunity or VoIP opportunity for a customer or a prospect, I will a lot of times just hand it over to them.

[00:09:41] Why?

[00:09:41] Because that's a referral that's making them real money, and I get my best referrals from telecom agents, hands down.

[00:09:48] They're working with the same type of customers.

[00:09:50] They don't do managed services.

[00:09:52] They do internet, right?

[00:09:54] Right.

[00:09:54] But I get more referrals.

[00:09:57] We just closed a $10,000 a month MRR customer that came in from the telecom agent in my partner network.

[00:10:06] But I have to give them referrals, and I have to give them revenue as well.

[00:10:09] And we share.

[00:10:10] We do revenue sharing too.

[00:10:12] They pay me on my referrals.

[00:10:13] I pay them on theirs, just like a commission.

[00:10:16] That's great, great, great stuff that we're sharing here, and hopefully this is something.

[00:10:21] Because I really think, because the year is coming to a close here, we're not that far away from 2025.

[00:10:27] It's crazy to think how fast this year went.

[00:10:30] And I know people are sitting out there looking at what are they going to do differently in their marketing?

[00:10:34] And what can we do to increase sales in the business?

[00:10:37] And this is a big staple for a lot of MSPs.

[00:10:41] And that's why we wanted to have you on, because I think this is a strategy people can put into place.

[00:10:47] Is it a huge lift?

[00:10:49] I mean, like if someone's on here, they're hearing you.

[00:10:51] You're doing this a couple times a year.

[00:10:53] You're in charge of it.

[00:10:54] You're running the things.

[00:10:55] How much pressure and pain has it been for you to put these events on and do this?

[00:11:00] You know, tell everybody kind of the time commitment to do this.

[00:11:03] Yeah, it's actually, it's pretty straightforward.

[00:11:06] I think it's really important to keep in mind that this is a process you have to rinse and repeat.

[00:11:11] Okay?

[00:11:12] As far as a budget goes, we're talking literally $1,000 per event.

[00:11:17] If you want a larger event, we will partner with some of the telecom agents or even manufacturers or get MDF funds.

[00:11:26] Like we've gotten MDF funds to pay for these events.

[00:11:29] So sometimes it doesn't cost us anything if we get money from Kaseya or we get money from SonicWall or Dell or Scale Computing or whoever.

[00:11:38] There's a lot of, we can do that as well.

[00:11:41] But from a time commitment, we, in our PSA, we actually keep a partner list, a COI list of people that we want to invite.

[00:11:49] When we decide to do events, we'll schedule it.

[00:11:53] We'll pick a day or a time, like a Thursday at 4 to 7 p.m., and we'll send out the invites.

[00:11:59] We'll reserve the spot at the local restaurant.

[00:12:04] And I have an admin to help me out at BNMC.

[00:12:09] And she does a lot of the legwork.

[00:12:11] But really, it's just sending out emails, right?

[00:12:14] And it's pretty low budget.

[00:12:16] We're really just bringing people together.

[00:12:18] And as I said, you can get MDF funds.

[00:12:20] You can actually partner with other companies who want to be there and they're willing to throw some money in.

[00:12:25] So from a budget standpoint, it's less expensive than a lot of other things people are doing.

[00:12:30] Yeah.

[00:12:30] I mean, you think about that.

[00:12:31] You're doing that a couple times a year, doing these different events.

[00:12:34] And that event keeps on giving, though.

[00:12:38] It's not just that.

[00:12:39] Absolutely.

[00:12:39] It's not there.

[00:12:40] From listening to everything you're saying, that's just restrengthening the relationship a couple times a year.

[00:12:46] But you guys are interacting throughout the entire year.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:50] And I just got an opportunity from a prospect who wants their website rebuilt, right?

[00:12:56] So I immediately said, hey, I have some partners that do websites.

[00:12:59] I'll make an introduction.

[00:13:01] I came back to my office, sent it to my partner, said, here's an opportunity.

[00:13:06] He's one that, you know, now I'm at the top of his list.

[00:13:10] And also I said, hey, Greg, by the way, we haven't met in a while.

[00:13:13] Let's go get some coffee or meet for lunch.

[00:13:15] And, you know, and the more that you touch, you know, the partners, the more that you give, the more that you get, and more that you're top of mind, this network will return.

[00:13:25] So it's not just a couple times a year.

[00:13:26] You got to keep working it.

[00:13:28] But it's the same, you know, for any marketing, you know, effort.

[00:13:33] You got to continuously do it and work that.

[00:13:36] Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:13:38] What challenges have you encountered with this?

[00:13:40] I mean, it can't all be just awesome, right?

[00:13:42] Like there's got to be some things.

[00:13:44] I've heard you say in the beginning some people are no longer a part of the center or your circle of influence.

[00:13:50] But what challenges have you had with putting this together?

[00:13:54] Because I know we'd like to talk about the good, but I also like to talk about what challenges can I expect if I do this?

[00:14:00] Well, first off, it takes time, you know, and this is not the kind of strategy.

[00:14:05] I mean, you might luck out.

[00:14:06] You might get a really awesome referral and close the deal really quick and be like, yeah, this is great.

[00:14:11] But in general, it takes a lot of time to build a network.

[00:14:15] It's a trust thing, like with any partners.

[00:14:17] We didn't just start this yesterday.

[00:14:19] We've been building our partner network for years and years and years.

[00:14:23] People also jump from job to job.

[00:14:25] Sometimes that's great and it helps you out and sometimes it doesn't.

[00:14:28] And then some partners just end up not working as much as they used to.

[00:14:33] And it does take some time.

[00:14:37] You know, I can tell you, you know, in 2023, we did 56,000 of net new MRR logo and 90% of that was from the COI network.

[00:14:47] Like that's 50,000 basically of net new MRR logo.

[00:14:51] But it took several years to build that out.

[00:14:54] And there was a little bit of luck and we had to close.

[00:14:57] We had to run the sales process and close it like anything else.

[00:15:00] Yes.

[00:15:01] So, I mean, probably for an investment of, let's say, four or 5,000 that could potentially be covered through MDF or other unique avenues of funding.

[00:15:10] It turned into 50,000 MRR plus for you.

[00:15:14] And that's a really good ROI, right?

[00:15:17] Yeah.

[00:15:18] It's a great ROI.

[00:15:19] And it's time.

[00:15:20] Yeah, right.

[00:15:20] And like, we'd want to do that all day long if we could bring in and do four things a year, have the relationships, do the different interactions.

[00:15:29] And then you can take and scale that beyond there and do events with people from your COI.

[00:15:34] Like I know I hear people that go and do things with the attorneys or they'll go do things with the insurance companies.

[00:15:40] And then it branches, but it's all come from that, you know, that circle or center of people that you have that you've got really good relationships with.

[00:15:51] So, I want to just ask a couple more questions just so we're trying to give people different ideas and perspective on this.

[00:15:57] I heard you say like you've done cocktail mixers and things.

[00:16:01] But then I also seen you guys did like a baseball game.

[00:16:04] So, like, was that just like a special thing or like curious as to like are all the events typically cocktail mixers and you guys just decided to do a bigger thing?

[00:16:14] I just would like to hear about that.

[00:16:16] Yeah, sure.

[00:16:17] So, we actually do a couple events per year.

[00:16:20] The baseball game worked really well.

[00:16:22] We actually invited our clients, our top clients, and a couple of our partners to come together.

[00:16:29] And we co-hosted that with another telecom provider, a local internet service provider in the Boston area.

[00:16:36] And they brought their customers in as well.

[00:16:39] And that was a little more expensive.

[00:16:41] We did get MDF funds for it, but that was more like a $10,000 event to bring in, you know, people and take them to a Red Sox game.

[00:16:50] We've done golf tournaments.

[00:16:52] We try to – and we, once again, we work with local partners on that, and we see the same partners in our network at the tournament.

[00:16:59] Some of them are sponsors.

[00:17:01] Some of them are playing.

[00:17:02] And we try to do it every year as well.

[00:17:05] And then we work with, you know, local industry groups as well.

[00:17:10] This year, for example, we're working on the local housing authority group, and they have conferences.

[00:17:16] And we actually have gotten a couple housing authority customers as managed service customers, and we're doubling down on that niche this year.

[00:17:26] And so, yeah, you kind of go and you try to change it up a little bit, but we're still doing the cocktail parties as well just to bring the partners together.

[00:17:35] And a lot of times we'll invite all our customers.

[00:17:37] Why not?

[00:17:38] If they want to come to the event, it looks good.

[00:17:42] It's a feel-good thing, and they can do their own networking because they're trying to build their business as well.

[00:17:47] So, yeah, we'll invite clients as well.

[00:17:50] That's awesome.

[00:17:51] Yeah, I mean this has been really – this is a great thing, and I think this – I appreciate you coming on and talking about this.

[00:17:57] And, you know, as we kind of wrap this and kind of go through and, you know, you've given some awesome things of how you do it, you know, the challenges that you face, the ROI from what you're doing, the time commitment.

[00:18:08] So, you know, you've given us a lot of really good nuggets here.

[00:18:11] What would be the best advice that you're going to give to an MSP owner that's looking to do this in 2025?

[00:18:18] Like what's the best advice that you would give them?

[00:18:21] Well, you've got to start somewhere.

[00:18:23] So I would say go through your LinkedIn, go through your PSA, and figure out in your network who to start that partner, that circle of influence partner network with.

[00:18:34] And as I mentioned, you know, look for the companies that you've worked with well in the past that are web hosting companies, telecom agents, attorneys, maybe local banks, insurance companies.

[00:18:47] And you want to find the people that you work with, not just the company because it's about the people.

[00:18:53] So that's why I said go in your LinkedIn.

[00:18:55] See who you've worked with and start having coffee with them and say, hey, I'm thinking of having an event.

[00:19:00] Would you come to a networking event, you know, if we sponsor it and just to meet and network with other people?

[00:19:05] That's how to begin and that's how to start it.

[00:19:08] And it'll build from there.

[00:19:09] And you'll see who's excited about it and who's not.

[00:19:13] Yeah, that's great advice.

[00:19:14] And I really, I encourage everybody, you know, what Roger's, it's why I wanted Roger to come on here is, is just we said in the beginning, this is a great strategy to implement.

[00:19:25] And yes, it takes a little bit of time and commitment in that, but you're doing three, four events a year.

[00:19:32] You're seeing the ROI that Roger talked about.

[00:19:34] I know others are seeing the same thing when they put it in.

[00:19:37] It is though, you got to put the effort in.

[00:19:40] But you think about all the money people go and spend on marketing initiatives and the ROI they get.

[00:19:46] This is a pretty cut proven one.

[00:19:48] And you're building relationships in your community, which is helping you establish your brand.

[00:19:53] It's helping you get your identity out there for people to really know who you are as a person as well.

[00:19:58] Like Roger was saying, who is the person?

[00:20:01] The person at the company means a lot.

[00:20:03] Same thing in IT.

[00:20:04] They need to know who you are.

[00:20:06] They need to know who you're about, what you're all about.

[00:20:09] Like, and this is a great way to do that.

[00:20:11] So I just appreciate you coming in, Roger, talking to us about this.

[00:20:15] And look, if you're an MSP out there that wants to go out there and start to do this, reach out to us.

[00:20:20] We're happy on the Powered Services Pro podcast.

[00:20:23] We're happy to sit down and talk to you and guide you through in supporting you how to build one of these COIs in your MSP in 2025.

[00:20:31] So, Roger, thanks for being on with us today.

[00:20:34] Yeah, awesome.

[00:20:35] Really appreciate it, Dan.

[00:20:37] All right, everybody.

[00:20:37] That's it for this episode of the Powered Services podcast.

[00:20:40] Until next time, everybody.

[00:20:42] Have a great day.

[00:20:45] And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Powered Services podcast with Dan Tomaszewski.

[00:20:51] We hope you're leaving with your mind buzzing with new ideas and strategies to revolutionize your MSP offerings.

[00:21:00] Don't forget to subscribe for more insights.

[00:21:02] And join us next time as we continue to decode the complexities of managed services.

[00:21:08] Until then, keep powering through.

[00:21:11] And remember, the future of MSP is bright and fully charged.

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