Aaron Peterik of Zero Networks

[00:00:01] Hello, ladies and gentlemen. It is another edition of the MSP Initiative, MSP Talk. It is December 10th.

[00:00:11] And so if you're on one of those last minute Amazon gift shopping type people, you better get it in.

[00:00:17] You better get it in now. I don't want to hear any excuses. We told you, like you're behind.

[00:00:22] Should have been doing the Black Friday shopping, Cyber Monday shopping, get all the discounts.

[00:00:27] But yeah, now's the time. Get all those orders in. I actually know people who bought, bought again, and now returning already because they bought too much.

[00:00:36] So if you're not already in that boat, you're behind. I myself had to do an Amazon return this morning for not me, everybody else in my house.

[00:00:45] Anyway, welcome to the MSP Initiative, MSP Talk. Again, December 10th, we're going to do some housekeeping like we did in the beginning of all these sessions.

[00:00:52] And then we'll get on to the good stuff. So MSP Initiative dot com. This is where all we park most of the stuff that we do, including all of these sessions.

[00:01:02] We park them on our YouTube page, our podcatcher and sessions on their MSP Initiative dot com.

[00:01:07] Feel free to zoom back after this one and you will see a recording of this one available for you.

[00:01:13] And then you can go back and pick up, pick apart all the things that we may have said wrong and send those messages.

[00:01:18] We did two sets of MSP Community Minds this year, one in Nashville, one in Denver.

[00:01:24] And we're in Denver the year before. I think we're going to Dallas for sure.

[00:01:29] This upcoming 2025, we're going to be doing another one of these MSP Community Minds.

[00:01:32] Stay tuned for more information. But if you check out last the last one, which we still have up online,

[00:01:37] you see it's kind of a good two day, totally educational event with MSP panels and breakouts and the industry speakers that like are actually trying to teach you something,

[00:01:47] per se. So if you like this format, which is different than I don't know, the trade show format that we've been running under for 30 plus years,

[00:01:56] more than since I've been going in the MSP sandbox, check it out.

[00:02:01] We're going to be doing another one of these next year for sure.

[00:02:03] Continuing the trend here to just shift the model here on on events.

[00:02:07] Although I'm going to skip ahead and tell you that if you're interested in knowing all of the industry events that we know about,

[00:02:13] our friend Jen, who's behind the scenes, has already worked into 2025.

[00:02:18] And while we're still hearing about events and we're hearing that it could be upward to 500 potential ones,

[00:02:24] all the ones that we know about are already in the 2025 schedule on the calendar at MSP initiative dot com.

[00:02:29] So go check them out. Do maybe some homework for you.

[00:02:32] And then let's just remind you of all of the community block parties that we did in 2024.

[00:02:38] We did a lot of them. So we didn't catch you in Orlando or Berlin, Miami, Sydney twice Dublin.

[00:02:50] We were in Dallas for an enable conference. So we had a lot of them, including our big one.

[00:02:56] So if you want to go to Facebook dot com slash MSP initiative, all of our there right now,

[00:03:05] if I can spell initiative property properly. Yep, there it is.

[00:03:09] All of the albums are on their photos for all of the parties we did this year.

[00:03:14] So check them out, including Flowrider and Sydney and Dublin, Berlin.

[00:03:20] Check them all out. Got a lot of good stuff there. Relive the moment for sure.

[00:03:24] You might need to be signed into Facebook to see him, but everybody has one of those accounts. Right.

[00:03:28] So check it out. It's all there. And then community offers is still online.

[00:03:32] If there's any offers there that you might be able to take advantage of. Great. Awesome.

[00:03:37] MSP initiative dot com. We're at the end of the year.

[00:03:40] So we need to plan for next year, which is already happening.

[00:03:44] How many block parties can we do in one year? I think 2024 set the bar.

[00:03:49] That and how many air how many events can you run in the same week?

[00:03:54] Don't recommend you should try those unless you absolutely have to.

[00:03:58] But they're fun, especially if you like, you know, flying in between events while the events are still running.

[00:04:02] But I digress. Our guest on today's show may not be well known on, you know, the street, but that's OK.

[00:04:11] We're going to give him a chance to introduce himself for all you MSPs out there.

[00:04:16] Aaron Petarek. How are you doing today, my friends?

[00:04:19] Well, how are you doing? Good to see you.

[00:04:21] You know, I was I got a text earlier today from from our mutual friend, friend Juan.

[00:04:26] He's like, hey, how are you feeling? And I was like, you know, Juan, a year ago today,

[00:04:31] that answer was 180 degrees in other direction than what it is now.

[00:04:34] So much better than I was last year, which is good.

[00:04:38] I remember coming after all these events and I was like literally just shot for two months.

[00:04:44] A lot of urgent care visits, a lot of meds, which turned into a lot of a lot of doctor,

[00:04:50] actual doctor visits that aren't there in care and so on and so forth, which,

[00:04:54] you know, started me on a track of trying to get all my stuff in order because I was in bad shape.

[00:04:59] But hey, life on the road, you know, seems great on on all the feeds and all the social apps.

[00:05:04] But in reality, it's tough game.

[00:05:07] Yes, it's it's exhausting.

[00:05:10] It's expensive at the same time.

[00:05:14] And yeah, you leave those events and you're like, man, what just happened?

[00:05:18] You know, and the reality is the, you know, the the work just starts then.

[00:05:23] Right. You know, you go, you have great you have great conversations.

[00:05:27] You know, you meet lots of new, you know, lots of new people, catch up with old friends

[00:05:32] and hopefully walk out of there with with with some potential business down the road.

[00:05:36] But, you know, yeah, the work the work just starts.

[00:05:39] I agree with you. We probably are on the same track here.

[00:05:42] But, you know, and I know we talk about this a lot on the podcast across the year.

[00:05:45] But, you know, events. Right.

[00:05:47] It's probably like for every MSP out there.

[00:05:51] You probably don't hear about this other than people like us just clamoring because like somewhere in a lot of behind of a lot of SAS vendor companies in the MSP sandbox are money people.

[00:06:05] Which are could be VC, PE, private investors, angel investors, whatever, somebody that you've borrowed money from.

[00:06:12] Right. And they run off of what?

[00:06:15] And I don't know. I haven't watched Shark Tank religiously, but I was on it for a while.

[00:06:18] And you had like Mr. Wonderful and you had Mark Cuban, all these guys.

[00:06:22] Right. Like I call them Shark Tank analytics.

[00:06:24] Right. And like, by the way, that's just what I like to call them because everybody knows what Shark Tank is.

[00:06:28] But like cost of customer acquisition is a huge, huge metric.

[00:06:36] And so as an MSP, that's no different. Right.

[00:06:39] How much time and money, because time has a dollar cost to it, does it take to get a prospect in the door and get that prospect to transact it?

[00:06:48] Right. And, you know, I just saw a clip from Mr. Wonderful.

[00:06:51] And this is why I bring all this up, that a lot of the problem with companies in America, but I would say this is a worldwide problem for any business.

[00:06:59] But let's just worry about where we're at right now, is that the cost of customer acquisition is too high, so high that it over it exceeds the lifetime customer value of that account.

[00:07:13] So what does that mean? If I take what I believe I'll generate in revenue off an account, let's just say in 12 months.

[00:07:20] And then like, let's say the average MSP account lives for three years.

[00:07:24] That's why we always hear about three year contracts.

[00:07:26] Let's just say between one and three years, that customer will live in your transaction, you know, kind of log.

[00:07:32] Right. But if the cost of generating that account is higher than the profit you're going to generate from that account over the lifetime of that with your business,

[00:07:42] that's how companies fail. Right.

[00:07:45] Like, hopefully I'm not talking like textbook crazy, like this is simple math.

[00:07:51] Right. Very simple math.

[00:07:52] I think part of the problem is a lot of MSPs who are usually watching this type of content will tell you,

[00:08:01] I look at the bank account at the end of the year, but I couldn't tell you what accounts profitable, what's not other than good.

[00:08:07] Right. Because like I'm in the trenches.

[00:08:08] Figure that out as soon as possible, because for any business, if you don't know what accounts make you money and what accounts break even,

[00:08:16] what accounts lose you money.

[00:08:18] How do you know what the right account is?

[00:08:20] How do you know what the right target customer is?

[00:08:22] All that being said.

[00:08:26] Me and Aaron probably feel about the same way about this and I'll let you, you know, kind of give me your answer.

[00:08:30] But event lead generation, when you're trying to generate new business,

[00:08:38] is probably one of the most expensive ways to actually get the job done.

[00:08:44] We can talk about different marketing avenues and, you know, digital and SEO and AdWords and social media influencers

[00:08:54] and all like so many different avenues, outbound marketing, cold calling still works, believe it or not.

[00:09:00] But like you take all of that, you put it onto the board and I could take just event marketing and it'll cost probably more than the rest of those.

[00:09:09] Oh, I'm willing to bet 100% that's the case, right?

[00:09:14] I mean, you know, I mean, you mentioned it earlier on, you know, earlier today here.

[00:09:18] There's, you know, 500, if not more, you know, in-person events.

[00:09:23] And, you know, this isn't, you know, inclusive of, you know, webinars and all the other, you know, areas that people can go to learn and try to grow their business, right?

[00:09:33] I mean, ultimately, you know, these events are intended to, you know, learn, educate, you know, from an MSP perspective.

[00:09:44] And from a vendor perspective, it's intended to try to drive some sales and, you know, grow your, you know, grow your customer base, right?

[00:09:52] And ultimately drive revenue.

[00:09:54] It's a massive, massive topic of conversation, right?

[00:09:58] You know, I know you and I both go to a lot of events and, you know, we haven't really talked about this too much, but I'm guessing that you typically see the same MSPs at a lot of the events, right?

[00:10:10] And, you know.

[00:10:11] It's interesting.

[00:10:11] I do have some quasi macro metrics for what it's worth because like this topic comes up not just on this, but in a lot of places.

[00:10:20] A lot of the bigger conferences, the one we all complain about running on the old blueprint where, you know, everything's a tax and, you know, the air that you breathe may cost you money.

[00:10:31] Actually have somewhere like a 40 to 50% attendee turnover year over year.

[00:10:36] So if I go to, and we can name them, it's fine.

[00:10:40] You know, like IT Nation in Orlando, for example, or Datocon Miami.

[00:10:46] The other Kaseya big annual event is in Vegas.

[00:10:49] I think they call that Connect Global.

[00:10:52] Enable has a conference that they shift every other year between Europe and the US.

[00:10:57] They call that Empower.

[00:11:01] PacSate Beyond, right?

[00:11:02] In Denver, for example.

[00:11:03] If you were to get a list of attendees of an event in 2024, go back to that big event in 2025.

[00:11:11] I believe you'll see a 40 to 50% turnover of people who are at the event next year that weren't there this year.

[00:11:19] Now, that's the big guy, right?

[00:11:21] Where a lot of things are going into how people are getting to those events because they're giving stuff away.

[00:11:26] They're hosting people, right?

[00:11:28] They're people getting flown in on somebody else's dime kind of thing, right?

[00:11:32] So that changes the agenda for sure.

[00:11:35] But I think those, if we're talking about the big ones and how do I categorize big?

[00:11:40] I don't know.

[00:11:42] North of 500,000, right?

[00:11:46] Plus, right?

[00:11:46] Like the big, you know, bigger than the smaller regional events.

[00:11:50] But that changes when you're talking about the smaller regional events, right?

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:54] Well, for sure.

[00:11:55] For sure.

[00:11:56] So, you know, the overlap is hard.

[00:11:59] And I think I maybe ran into the end of you talking to Jen, you know, before we kicked off the show.

[00:12:05] Like one of the hardest things to do.

[00:12:08] I don't care.

[00:12:09] Like forget vendor, forget MSP, just in business.

[00:12:12] It's tracking ROI.

[00:12:15] Simple business.

[00:12:16] Maybe it's easier.

[00:12:17] It's a more complex business.

[00:12:19] Maybe it's harder.

[00:12:19] But when we're talking about event marketing and when you start hitting multiples, right?

[00:12:24] You ran into somebody at this one, then this one, then this one.

[00:12:28] How do you then account for, well, where did my dollars get spent versus how did they come back to me, right?

[00:12:35] It starts to get harder when you split it apart like that.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] It's extremely hard to measure, right?

[00:12:42] And, you know, being that we're, you know, almost at the end of the year, I'm willing to bet that a lot of our listeners and everyone is in 2025 planning, right?

[00:12:53] And as you build your plan and you're thinking about your objectives and what you want to achieve next year and how you're going to get there and so forth from a sales standpoint or whatever, you know, events is a big, big part of that, right?

[00:13:09] Where do we want to spend our time and effort?

[00:13:11] How do we show up?

[00:13:12] Do we sponsor this one?

[00:13:14] And how, you know, what level of sponsorship do we do?

[00:13:17] And, okay, now we're going to spend $50,000 in the month of February to go to this particular event.

[00:13:22] And, you know, and that's just a sponsor.

[00:13:25] Then there's the travel and entertainment costs and the setup and breakdown and the shipping and all that stuff.

[00:13:31] I mean, it's massive, right?

[00:13:32] And so, as a, you know, if you're a CEO, if you're running these businesses, you know, the question is, okay, well, yeah, we could do that.

[00:13:42] What do we get out of it?

[00:13:44] Right?

[00:13:44] What's the benefit, right?

[00:13:46] And all that kind of stuff.

[00:13:47] Who's the audience?

[00:13:48] And it's tough, right?

[00:13:51] It's tough.

[00:13:51] You sort of have to, you know, sort of place your bets, you know, a little bit and really, you know, really hustle and network and do all the things necessary to have a good event.

[00:14:03] When you're at the event, you really got to be out there and spending a lot of time and lots of conversations and, you know, really sort of lose your voice, so to speak.

[00:14:11] And then, but again, that's just all the pre-work stuff, right?

[00:14:14] The real work, the real business, you know, really happens after that event.

[00:14:18] And so, you need to have a plan in place, a process in place, clear roles, responsibilities on who's going to do what and when and how and so forth.

[00:14:27] And so, and then, so, you know, before you know it, you're at the next event.

[00:14:31] The biggest part of all of that, I think, is the last, you know, if you're not following up consistently post, like if there isn't, if you're not diligent, like one interaction point's not going to do it, right?

[00:14:44] So, if like you're not consistently following up to try and, you know, get you, generate your dollars back, right?

[00:14:52] You'll lose.

[00:14:53] The house will win.

[00:14:55] You'll lose.

[00:14:56] Yeah.

[00:14:57] Well, you know, there's been some, you know, a lot of studies on a lot of this, right?

[00:15:03] And, you know, I think the latest, you know, statistic that I saw was it takes 28 touch points before a buyer decides to, you know, to purchase something, right?

[00:15:11] And so, you know, if you're talking to, you know, a new customer, you know, for the first time, well, congratulations.

[00:15:18] You have 27 more touch points you need to make before they decide to do anything with you.

[00:15:22] And so, you know, what does that look like?

[00:15:24] What's that follow up?

[00:15:25] What kind of messaging are you doing?

[00:15:27] Social media.

[00:15:27] It's a whole thing, right?

[00:15:29] And so, there's so much that goes into it, you know, to get to 28 touch points, which again is the average, that takes a lot of time, right?

[00:15:38] You got to build trust.

[00:15:39] You got to have good content that they want to keep coming back.

[00:15:41] And so, it's a lot of effort.

[00:15:44] But it's a good challenge to have, right?

[00:15:47] You know, it's exciting at the same time.

[00:15:49] And, you know, with the number of vendors in the space these days, the number of MSPs that just continue to grow and grow.

[00:15:56] And, you know, the threats aren't going anywhere.

[00:15:58] Statistics show that ransomware continues to go up.

[00:16:01] And the level of, you know, phishing attacks continues to rise.

[00:16:05] I mean, it is, you know, this channel and everything is just, it continues to almost double down every single year.

[00:16:14] And so, it's exciting to be a part of.

[00:16:18] You know, I often think about, you know, from like a bigger picture standpoint, you know, like what do we do?

[00:16:25] And, you know, a lot of us are keeping small businesses, you know, in business, right?

[00:16:31] We're protecting their business.

[00:16:33] We're protecting their livelihoods.

[00:16:35] We're protecting their families.

[00:16:36] We're helping, you know, the owner of this business, you know, keep his or her employees employed and keep their families and their kids going to school and being able to do all the activities and so forth.

[00:16:48] And it's obviously a very macro conversation at that level.

[00:16:52] But, you know, a lot of the work that we do on a day-to-day basis, you guys, you know, our company and hundreds of other companies, you know, it's exciting.

[00:17:01] I, you know, I often think of, you know, MSPs as, you know, sort of the, you know, superheroes of our economy, right?

[00:17:09] I think they do so much to help keep our business and our economy running.

[00:17:13] And, you know, a bunch of local heroes.

[00:17:15] I think they don't get acknowledgement for that.

[00:17:17] To be totally honest.

[00:17:18] 100%.

[00:17:18] I think they probably get gypped a little bit in how integral they are, you know, to the lights being on.

[00:17:24] But, you know, I kind of skipped over a part in the beginning, right?

[00:17:27] You know, I didn't let you kind of talk about your story and your background and your journey to how you got to today.

[00:17:33] And then, you know, once we get done with a little bit about you, then we can talk about, you know, your company and what they do.

[00:17:39] So feel free.

[00:17:41] Walk us down, you know, memory lane.

[00:17:43] Yeah.

[00:17:44] Wow.

[00:17:44] It's, yeah.

[00:17:46] I mean, I've, so, you know, I've been in sales and marketing types of roles for over 20 years.

[00:17:54] You know, similar to a lot of people that sort of come into this IT, MSP channel space and so forth.

[00:18:03] My background is not in IT.

[00:18:06] It's not a technical background.

[00:18:07] Again, it's more on the sales marketing side.

[00:18:09] And so I've been in many different industries actually over my career.

[00:18:13] So the first half of my career I spent at General Mills.

[00:18:20] And so I was a sales, sort of a sales marketing guy there working in consumer products, goods industry, you know, selling, you know, Cheerios and all sorts of cereal.

[00:18:30] It's only Progresso soup, Yoplait yogurt, green giant vegetables, old El Paso Mexican food.

[00:18:36] And the list goes on and on.

[00:18:38] Right.

[00:18:39] And so, you know, if you were to walk down every single grocery aisle in your local store, you'd see a General Mills product in literally every single aisle.

[00:18:47] And so I was there for 12 years, did a variety of roles there from selling to sort of brand marketing to product management.

[00:18:58] I actually finished my, the last year and a half to two years, I was there doing continuous improvement.

[00:19:05] So, you know, working on how to save people time, money and energy, so to speak.

[00:19:13] How do we do things faster with, you know, the same resources or less and so forth.

[00:19:18] So that was a great experience.

[00:19:21] I learned a lot about how to analyze data.

[00:19:25] I worked on the Walmart account.

[00:19:27] And anyone that's worked in the Walmart account knows that the way that they analyze data is second to none.

[00:19:33] Right.

[00:19:33] We were analyzing sales by the hour at a certain point.

[00:19:39] So just, you know, unbelievable.

[00:19:41] From there, I actually wrote, I actually transitioned.

[00:19:46] I'm obviously a big sports guy, as you can tell.

[00:19:48] And so always had a, always had a passion for working in or around sports.

[00:19:53] And, and so I actually transitioned to work at Reebok, which was at the time part of the Adidas group.

[00:20:01] So Adidas and Reebok were actually the same company for, for, for quite a while.

[00:20:06] Uh, Reebok was purchased, um, about a year or two ago.

[00:20:11] And so they're actually separate now, but yeah, I went from, from selling groceries, you know, selling, you know, selling to like, you know, the targets and all the, all the grocery outlets to, you know, selling and managing the, uh, the sporting goods channel for, for Reebok.

[00:20:25] So I remember early on, when I first started, they sent me all sorts of, um, um, products, you know, to demo and use that, you know, use during sales.

[00:20:36] And I remember showing back up to my house and I had probably 50 boxes, um, outside my front door.

[00:20:42] I couldn't even see my front door because I had boxes of shoes and apparel and accessories and everything that, um, I needed to sort of go through and eventually, you know, present to my buyers at my, uh, at the chains.

[00:20:55] I was looking, I was managing.

[00:20:57] So I was there for, for about, uh, about two years.

[00:21:01] That's actually what moved me out to Denver, which is where I live today.

[00:21:04] Um, I was managing sports authority and anyone in the, in the, in the sports, you know, scene, you know, knows, knows sports authority and obviously Dick's sporting goods and academy sports down South and, uh, um, many other outlets there.

[00:21:19] But so yeah, they moved me out to Denver to manage sports authority and that whole channel and sports authority at the time was headquartered here in Denver.

[00:21:27] And so, um, I was like, are you sure?

[00:21:29] Like, aren't they going out of business soon or, and so anyways, I was out, you know, I was, I was there.

[00:21:34] I was there for about, again, a year and a half, two years.

[00:21:36] Sports authority eventually went out of business.

[00:21:38] So that was a lot of fun figuring out how to manage all of that.

[00:21:41] And that was, that was quite the time.

[00:21:43] And so, uh, from there, I, I ended up moving over to, uh, to sort of medical.

[00:21:50] I always wanted to, you know, from there, I was like, God, I've been doing sort of retail and consumer product goods for a while.

[00:21:54] And so I moved over to, uh, to medical and technology a little bit, uh, worked in the, um, in the dental industry actually for a little while.

[00:22:03] I was selling, um, it's called an intraoral scanner for, for, uh, for a company headquartered over in Copenhagen.

[00:22:09] So in that role, I was, I was managing a distributor in the dental chain.

[00:22:14] And so I was traveling like 90% of the year, um, traveling all over the world, you know, uh, training and enabling, uh, the sales reps at, at the distributor that I was working for and so forth.

[00:22:26] And so I did that for, for a couple of years and sort of burnt out on traveling.

[00:22:30] I was, you know, again, I was traveling all the time.

[00:22:33] And at that point, my, uh, my family was growing.

[00:22:36] I had little kids and I was like, you know, I sort of want to, I want to be home more and spend more time there, um, coaching and, and just being around the kids and the family a little more.

[00:22:46] So, so looked at some local places that here in Denver and stumbled upon PAX eight and, um, and heard great things about them, talk to them.

[00:22:56] It just felt like home to me.

[00:22:57] It felt like a good fit.

[00:22:58] And so ended up working over at PAX eight for, for the last five years, I was doing an account management sort of sales job over there.

[00:23:06] And then transitioned the last couple of years, I was at PAX eight into their, uh, their, their sort of vendor, vendor management, uh, team where I was, um, managing and leading the, the relationships between PAX eight and all of our, and all of their vendor, vendor partners.

[00:23:22] And that's how you and I met, uh, you know, thankfully there and, and built a good relationship.

[00:23:27] And so again, was at PAX eight for about five years and then recently transitioned to the role that I'm in now at zero networks, uh, which is also, you know, it's a, it's a security vendor in the, in the MSP space here, uh, about seven months ago or so.

[00:23:40] And so they brought me over to, uh, to really launch, um, and, and grow the MSP channel for zero networks and how we go to market there and, and all that stuff.

[00:23:52] So, so yeah, I mean, that is quite the journey, my friend.

[00:23:57] I mean, Reebok, I'm sure you got a lot of good gear out of that.

[00:24:01] Yeah.

[00:24:01] Well, I have, you can sort of see over here.

[00:24:03] I have like these little, these were like little, um, you know, kids shoes that I kept and actually, they're actually really good pencil holders.

[00:24:09] So that's funny.

[00:24:11] I, you know, when they went to Nike, the NFL for their jerseys, I mean, it was never the same.

[00:24:15] I really, I liked the Reebok way better than I did the Nike gear, but that's just me.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:21] Um, but man, you, you, you jumped around a bit, which is great.

[00:24:24] You know, you got a lot of experience.

[00:24:25] Um, I'll just ask you a few questions about, um, you know, so you spent five years at PAX eight.

[00:24:31] You did a couple of different things.

[00:24:33] Uh, I shipped a lot of glassware to you in Denver.

[00:24:37] It's all good.

[00:24:37] You made it work.

[00:24:40] Um, because you had so many different industry moves, what did you find different about IT MSP bubble?

[00:24:50] That kind of was just not the same, you know, like I'm sure every, you know, vertical you sold into is different, but like, what's unique to this sandbox from your perspective?

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] I mean, um, it is, it is unique in a way for sure.

[00:25:05] Right.

[00:25:05] It's, it's, it's certainly more, more virtual than, uh, than, than everything else I was selling to.

[00:25:12] Right.

[00:25:12] There's, you know, again, the, the industries that I was in consumer products, goods, right.

[00:25:17] Selling to, you know, um, big, uh, uh, big companies like the Walmarts and targets and, you know, uh, King supers and, you know, um, Kroger.

[00:25:30] And I mean, it goes on and on, right.

[00:25:31] To transitioning to doing something similar selling to a headquarter, but in the sporting is a good channel.

[00:25:37] Right.

[00:25:38] Um, uh, and so definitely, definitely a little different, right.

[00:25:42] It's it, there's, there's, there's more, it's more physical selling.

[00:25:44] There's an actual product that I can give you.

[00:25:47] Right.

[00:25:47] Um, here it is, taste it, try it on, feel it.

[00:25:52] Right.

[00:25:52] There's, there's, there's certain that, that, that avenue to it.

[00:25:55] Transitioning over to like the IT land, there isn't like a physical product that I'm giving you that you can sort of touch, feel and hold.

[00:26:03] Right.

[00:26:04] It's, it's something that you need to sort of try and test out and, and see how it works within your, your business model with your customer base and so forth.

[00:26:13] So it's just a little different in that sense, because, you know, the world used to be this, like, Hey, if I'm going to buy something, I need to try it on and, and test it before I actually do it.

[00:26:23] Right.

[00:26:24] Where, you know, the last several years, obviously with COVID and several other things that it's, it's really transitioned to more sort of virtual buying.

[00:26:31] And so, uh, the buyers are, are, are, are different.

[00:26:34] The way that they sort of test and try out products is different.

[00:26:37] And so I would say that's, that, that's one of the key ones that obviously, you know, selling to an MSP, you know, I remember when I, when I first started at PAX eight, um, didn't know anything about technology.

[00:26:51] I remember asking like, what is an MSP?

[00:26:53] I was doing research on like what an MSP is.

[00:26:56] Like, I'm like, is this like a, like a standard term that people know?

[00:26:59] Like, I've never heard of this before.

[00:27:00] Like, what are we talking about here?

[00:27:02] You know?

[00:27:03] And, um, but I remember, I remember, you know, when I was, you know, obviously we, you know, did a lot of training at PAX eight when I first started and they're talking about, you know, the MSP versus the customer.

[00:27:15] And, you know, we, we sell to the MSP.

[00:27:17] Those are our customers.

[00:27:18] And then they then, you know, sell downstream to the end user and those customers.

[00:27:23] And, you know, they were, I remember being trained explicitly on, you know, the MSP is our, is our customer.

[00:27:29] Right.

[00:27:29] And so I'm like, cool, I got it.

[00:27:31] And, you know, went out, you know, started talking to MSPs and starting to sell a little bit.

[00:27:36] And, and I'm like, man, I'm killing it.

[00:27:39] I'm getting, I'm getting my MSP, you know, I'm getting my partners to, you know, to, you know, to buy all these products and try out all these different solutions and different vendors and so forth.

[00:27:47] And, you know, then the end, the end of the month would, would, would, would, uh, would come out.

[00:27:51] And, and I'm like, man, why am I not hitting my targets?

[00:27:54] Like I'm close, but I'm not hitting my targets.

[00:27:56] Like why, what the heck?

[00:27:58] And, and two or three months, you know, of that, of that persisted.

[00:28:01] And I was like super close, but I wasn't hitting targets.

[00:28:04] And I'm like, what is going on?

[00:28:05] And, and I, and I realized that I'm talking to the wrong, to the wrong person, right?

[00:28:11] I was selling to the MSP.

[00:28:13] I was trying to get that MSP to buy from me.

[00:28:16] Right.

[00:28:16] And what I realized was no, no, no, they can buy all the stuff that they want from me.

[00:28:21] But if they're not able, if I'm not enabling them to sell downstream to their customers and transit and basically translate what I'm saying down to their customers, I'm not going to make any money.

[00:28:32] They're not going to make any money.

[00:28:33] It's, it's a losing game.

[00:28:35] And so when I had that realization, you know, a few months, you know, a few months into my time there, that's when things really started to turn around for me.

[00:28:43] And then I was like, you know, I need to stop selling to these guys.

[00:28:46] I need to start enabling them and helping them position, you know, what we were talking about to their, to their customer base.

[00:28:53] And so that is definitely a different model than the other industries that I've been a part of, because it's, it's sort of the game of telephone a little bit where, you know, you're, you're telling, you know, one, one person, one thing they need to tell someone else and they need to tell someone else.

[00:29:09] And you're hoping that, that that message sort of translates throughout that, throughout that game of telephone.

[00:29:14] So it's gotta be easy.

[00:29:16] It's gotta be understandable.

[00:29:17] It's gotta be clear, all those things.

[00:29:18] So.

[00:29:19] Yeah, no, I totally get it.

[00:29:21] What, what is it?

[00:29:22] And I'll leave, this is the last one I have on your background, but what is it about people coming from other industries, like even other technology industries, right?

[00:29:32] Like I've seen people go from, you know, Cisco and try and sell into the MSP space.

[00:29:38] And it's like night and day, or, you know, they come into, you know, let's say they were working at a hardware based company, right?

[00:29:45] And they're selling laptops and then they get into MSP land, into subscriptions and SaaS.

[00:29:52] And it just, it's like a, you know, I don't know, a shock, you know, to the system for some reason.

[00:29:56] What, why is that?

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] I mean, I think, I guess to what I was saying, I think it's that sort of game of telephone a little bit, right?

[00:30:03] I mean, you gotta understand who you're selling to, what they do.

[00:30:07] I mean, there's, there's so many roles, responsibilities, right?

[00:30:10] You, you know, if you were to, if you were to talk to, you know, an organization, I mean, you might be talking to an engineer.

[00:30:16] You might be talking to their CEO.

[00:30:18] You might be talking to a CFO, someone in finance that cares about money.

[00:30:21] Like, you know, it's, it's important to know who you're talking to because every one of those groups has, has, has different goals and targets and how, you know, and language that they speak.

[00:30:31] Right.

[00:30:31] They have different objectives that they're trying to hit.

[00:30:33] So there's, there's a lot of layers to selling to, you know, the MSP channel.

[00:30:41] There's just so many layers and, you know, given the, the growth of the number of vendors in the space, you know, given the growth of the threats and, you know, the, the continued, you know, levels of ransomware.

[00:30:55] And it's just all the stuff happening from a, from a bad guy perspective, there's more and more money being poured into the channel, into the industry.

[00:31:03] Hence more and more new vendors coming in to say, oh, I can do this bigger, better, faster.

[00:31:07] Um, and so there's a lot of noise.

[00:31:11] And so there's a lot of, when you combine the noise with the number of levels, uh, you know, being successful and selling into, you know, into the space, whether it's an MSP selling to, to customers or it's a vendor selling to MSPs, you know, how you, how you communicate.

[00:31:29] It's gotta be, it's, it's gotta be clear, concise to the point, you know, what problems do you solve?

[00:31:36] How do you solve it?

[00:31:37] What are the proof points and use cases that, that you've, that you've had where I can say, oh, this customer was in your shoes a year ago, right?

[00:31:46] They're now doing this and, and, and, and look at the success that they've had, right?

[00:31:50] You gotta be able to tell that story in a clear and concise way.

[00:31:54] And, you know, in my, in my last role at PAC States, you know, I worked with, you know, about a hundred vendors at the time that they had.

[00:32:04] And you see, you see the gamut, right?

[00:32:07] You see some vendors that do that extremely well.

[00:32:10] Um, they're, they're easy to, they're, they're, they're easy to sell.

[00:32:14] They have an easy go to market and they have easy pricing too.

[00:32:17] We haven't even talked about pricing, right?

[00:32:19] They have an easy pricing strategy.

[00:32:21] Uh, and then you see the, you see the other side where, you know, they'll have, you know, a hundred SKUs.

[00:32:27] Uh, if, you know, if, if, if someone asks them, Hey, what's your, what's your cost on this?

[00:32:32] What's your price?

[00:32:33] It's a 30 minute conversation before they land on what the price is, because there's so many variables and it's, you know, it, it, it becomes very complicated and, and convoluted.

[00:32:42] So, so I think it's just the, there's so many layers and levels to it that, you know, once you, once you sort of see that and understand it, then it's a matter of, you know, cutting, cutting through all that noise and saying, you know, and just making it simple.

[00:32:56] That's fair.

[00:32:57] Um, so your role now at zero networks, go learn a little bit about zero networks does, but just to make sure I got it right.

[00:33:04] Is like, you're building out an MSP program for zero networks, right?

[00:33:08] Like they're at now they're, they're getting two feet in jumping into the deep end, the MSP land.

[00:33:13] So, you know, we'll talk about how you're, you structured your program and stuff, but, and I'm sure you learned a lot, you know, being on the other side here, but man.

[00:33:21] Again, the way the vendor, the way that MSP programs are structured have dramatically changed over even the last five years.

[00:33:29] I mean, in that time, NCE for Microsoft showed up on everybody's doorstep or, you know, everybody went from month to month to, you know, lock in contracts on terms, you know, one year, two year, three year, et cetera, or pre billing versus post billing.

[00:33:46] And like, all of a sudden it got, you almost needed a separate billing engine inside the MSP to even keep up with it.

[00:33:54] Right.

[00:33:55] Because it started to get super complicated.

[00:33:56] So I'm curious to hear a little bit more about what things your network solves for as it, from an MSP perspective.

[00:34:03] And then how did you take all of that information that you learned on the other side and create a program that hopefully is easy for the MSP to jump into?

[00:34:11] Cause man, say that, I don't know what your, your opinion is.

[00:34:14] I think the average MSP has at least 40 vendors, 40 technologies, software companies, hardware vendors, warranties, whatever, internet providers, you name it.

[00:34:26] And like, by the time you add it all up, that's a lot to keep track of.

[00:34:31] It is, it is for sure.

[00:34:32] And again, one of the layers and challenges of, of selling in this space.

[00:34:36] Um, so yeah, so, you know, zero networks is, it's a, it's a network security solution.

[00:34:42] Uh, we do, we do micro segmentation.

[00:34:45] Um, micro segmentation is essentially a way to divide your network into the lowest possible, uh, denominator.

[00:34:53] Meaning, you know, if, if the bad guy gets in, you know, you know, gets past your, your perimeter defense, right.

[00:35:00] Um, what do you have in inside the house, so to speak, to prevent them from going room to room to room.

[00:35:08] Right.

[00:35:08] Um, and so that's what, that's what zero networks does.

[00:35:11] We actually, we, we protect the inside of the house, so to speak.

[00:35:15] Right.

[00:35:15] Right.

[00:35:15] So if the bad guy, you know, gets through that, through that window that is cracked in your house in the bathroom.

[00:35:21] Right.

[00:35:22] Without, without any kind of segmentation, what that bad guy is going to do is they're going to go from the bathroom into the living room, you know, and steal your, steal your jewelry.

[00:35:30] They're going to go up to your bedroom and steal the cash.

[00:35:32] They're going to go to that, to that, to that drawer in your kitchen and steal those passwords that you think are safe.

[00:35:37] They're going to go throughout your entire house and take everything.

[00:35:40] And once they have everything, if you want that back, you got to pay for it.

[00:35:44] Right.

[00:35:44] Right.

[00:35:44] And so what we do is we say, Hey, if, if this, if this window's cracked and, and someone gets in, you know, gets into your bathroom, so to speak, or gets into this machine, um, because they clicked on something or whatever.

[00:35:57] Right.

[00:35:57] Which is, is going to happen.

[00:35:59] We all know it.

[00:36:00] Statistics show it.

[00:36:01] They're going to get, they're going to get into your network at some point if they're not in there already.

[00:36:07] Right.

[00:36:07] And when they, when they get into that, into that bathroom, what they want to do is go to the rest of the house.

[00:36:11] They want to go throughout the rest of your network and take everything, get all your data.

[00:36:15] Right.

[00:36:16] And so what micro segmentation does and what, what, what we do is we say, okay, they've gotten into your bathroom.

[00:36:22] Well, we're going to prevent them from going anywhere else.

[00:36:24] They're not going to be able to go out of that bathroom without validating who they are and doing all sorts of other things.

[00:36:30] Right.

[00:36:30] And so, so we're going to essentially lock them in that bathroom.

[00:36:34] And so what happens is they're in that bathroom, but like, I can't get out.

[00:36:38] And so what, what happens is they eventually just go back out the window and leave.

[00:36:41] Right.

[00:36:42] Um, that's obviously, you know, a success in our world.

[00:36:45] And so that's what micro segmentation is.

[00:36:47] It's, it's essentially creating these, these, these little, these little networks, you know, in your network to prevent any kind of what we say lateral movement.

[00:36:55] So in that example, lateral movement would be going from the bathroom to the bedroom, to the kitchen, to the living room and so forth.

[00:37:01] Right.

[00:37:02] So, um,

[00:37:03] Is this happening at the switching hardware level?

[00:37:06] Is it like a software conversation?

[00:37:09] Like, and then, you know, modern day, right?

[00:37:12] Like I take my laptop, I'm going wherever airport.

[00:37:16] I mean, there's a lot of different applications on my, on my, my system.

[00:37:20] Right.

[00:37:20] Right.

[00:37:21] Like I'm going to have my, my CRM.

[00:37:23] I'm going to have Microsoft.

[00:37:24] I'm going to have communications.

[00:37:25] I'm going to have chat.

[00:37:27] I'm going to have email, like all this stuff.

[00:37:29] Like, are we doing it down to the application or how, how is that?

[00:37:35] You know, just want to go a little bit deeper there.

[00:37:37] Yep.

[00:37:37] Yeah.

[00:37:37] So it, it, it happens at the application level, at the, at the, at, at the asset level basically as well.

[00:37:44] Right.

[00:37:44] So, so, you know, your machine, your, your laptop that you're talking about would be like a segment, right?

[00:37:51] So if someone was to get into your machine, they wouldn't be able to then access the servers and other machines and other applications that you're talking to.

[00:37:59] Right.

[00:38:00] So it's, it's, it's essentially blocking that down.

[00:38:04] And then we're, we're creating rules and policies as well.

[00:38:07] Right.

[00:38:08] So there might be a rule and policy that says, okay, anyone that's accessing this server, this server has our sort of crown jewels, our sensitive data on it.

[00:38:16] Know what nobody can access that before they do MFA and, and other things.

[00:38:22] Right.

[00:38:22] They have to be approved for that just in time access, that kind of stuff.

[00:38:26] So it is, it is a true zero trust platform.

[00:38:30] Um, and so, so yeah, so, so that's, that's a little bit about what we do.

[00:38:34] I don't want, you know, we can get into the details and more tech, you know, um, you know, more in the technology and so forth, but from a high level, uh, that's, that, that, that, that's what we do.

[00:38:43] So, you know, part of the reason I came over to zero networks, um, was because of that opportunity.

[00:38:50] Right.

[00:38:51] A lot of MSPs that I talked to today, they're doing some segmentation, you know, they're doing like VLANs or, you know, they have a VPN or they have a ZTNA, a Zitna solution kind of a thing.

[00:39:01] And that's really a matter of, you know, you know, what can come through the door, you know, of, of your house, so to speak, but very little are doing true segmentation.

[00:39:11] And the reason for that is, is not because they don't want to do it.

[00:39:16] It's because a lot of those sort of legacy solutions out there that does micro segmentation, they simply don't play in the SMB space and with, and, and certainly with, with, with MSPs.

[00:39:27] And the reason for that is because to do micro segmentation historically, you need to download an agent on every single asset, every single machine, every single server.

[00:39:39] And, you know, going back to what we were talking about before, there's a lot going on.

[00:39:42] There's a lot of noise, a lot on, on the MSP plates.

[00:39:45] And so I don't know an MSP in the world.

[00:39:48] That's like, yeah, let me go download some agents.

[00:39:50] Let me take months, you know, months out of my, out of my time to go physically touch every single machine to download something that is going to be able to segment.

[00:40:00] I think the concern is that there's 18,000 agents now, right?

[00:40:03] Now the computer, like ever, ever complain with the number of icons you have in the tray?

[00:40:08] Now all of a sudden just to like, and like security has become ballooned into like, well, now you need 12 different security layers, right?

[00:40:16] Because, you know, this guy does this one thing, this guy does another one thing.

[00:40:20] And by the time you're done installing all of those agents, does the computer even run well?

[00:40:25] Like, I think that's, that's the bigger problem these days, right?

[00:40:28] That everybody requires some sort of agent to run.

[00:40:31] Yeah.

[00:40:32] Yeah.

[00:40:32] It's, it's sort of a joke that we talk about internally because there's been lots of studies done by like Gartner and several others that we work, you know, that we, that we work with and partner with.

[00:40:41] But, you know, the average, the average time it takes to, to download and fully deploy into micro segmentation these days actually is longer than the, than the average time a CTO is in, is in his or her job.

[00:40:57] Right.

[00:40:58] And so it takes so long to fully deploy these things because of the manual, you know, aspects of it.

[00:41:05] And that's just deploying, right?

[00:41:07] We haven't even touched on managing the changes in the network, right?

[00:41:11] Managing the rules and the policies.

[00:41:13] And that is like, honestly, like the biggest time suck of all.

[00:41:16] And you really need someone in your organization that knows the types of rules and policies to create.

[00:41:23] Right.

[00:41:23] And that's the other, that's the other challenges you're, you know, you have engineers that are doing a million things, you know, every single hour of the day.

[00:41:31] And now we're, and now, you know, micro segmentation is saying, well, now you got to come in and you got to be, you got to create this rule and this policy.

[00:41:40] And that's, that's stressful because what happens when, you know, George can't access, you know, you know, this server?

[00:41:47] Well, why did you do this?

[00:41:49] And so, so there, there's a lot of layers to it.

[00:41:51] And so part of the reason, again, I was excited to come over to Zero Networks is one, because of the opportunity, right?

[00:41:58] There, there just isn't a lot of micro segmentation happening in this, in the MSP channel today because of these things we're talking about.

[00:42:05] I might, I might argue that the people that we're talking to, right.

[00:42:10] You know, it and men of services companies.

[00:42:13] I don't know if they really understand.

[00:42:14] Number one, they've not heard the term, but number two, I don't think they really understand the concept.

[00:42:19] Yep.

[00:42:20] I mean, there's a lot of companies out there and I, you know, I'm going to, I'm sure you're going to say, well, because it's not made its way down here.

[00:42:27] There, there's not a lot of companies out there that you're competing against in this, in the bubble, right?

[00:42:31] In the sandbox.

[00:42:33] I mean, a lot of other companies may not call it this, but they'll say, Hey, we're going to whitelist and blacklist things.

[00:42:38] We're going to gate traffic.

[00:42:40] Like different people are saying similar things.

[00:42:43] I'm just not sure we're talking about the same thing.

[00:42:46] It's almost like there's an education uphill here, you know, to really explain what exactly are we accomplishing and why is this different and better than the 18 other products that you already bought here?

[00:42:58] Right.

[00:42:59] Like for example, if I went and bought an EDR solution, an EDR solution, you know, which is, which graduated from antivirus, right.

[00:43:08] It's just like the evolution of that.

[00:43:09] But a lot of them now have this function where if they feel that something malicious is happening, they disconnect you from your network, whatever you call that you're and they, they, they put you into your own bubble, right.

[00:43:23] Temporarily until somebody can figure out what's happening on that machine.

[00:43:27] Why is that different from micro segmentation?

[00:43:31] You know, so I, I, maybe it's just a different technology architecture from what other people are talking.

[00:43:37] Yeah, it's, it's, it is very much, there's, there's a massive need for some education in this space.

[00:43:45] And you're right, because, you know, when I, when I talked to MSPs, yeah, a lot of them were like micro segmentation.

[00:43:51] What is that?

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:52] Oh yeah, no, I do segmentation.

[00:43:53] I, I, you know, I use, I use VLANs.

[00:43:55] I have VLANs for segmentation, right.

[00:43:58] Or they'll throw out like another acronym that, you know, that is in the industry for, you know, for ways to essentially stop this.

[00:44:05] Um, the challenge is, you know, a lot of organizations spend a lot of money on the perimeter, right.

[00:44:13] Um, they're trying to build the tallest and thickest wall possible, uh, in order to, you know, to prevent any bad guys from getting inside the house, so to speak.

[00:44:21] Right.

[00:44:22] But the reality is people are getting in and once they're past that, that thick, tall wall that you've spent a lot of money and a lot of resources on and have numerous vendors to, you know, to do the, to do that prevention and even, you know, detection.

[00:44:37] Uh, they're getting in somehow and they're, and they're moving around.

[00:44:40] And so.

[00:44:41] They get in probably because of the person between the chair and the keyboard.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:45] I mean, that's the easiest way in.

[00:44:47] Right.

[00:44:47] Or the password is, yeah, password.

[00:44:50] And then all of a sudden, but that's a human being problem, right.

[00:44:53] They set something very easy to get into.

[00:44:55] All right.

[00:44:55] So is this a software conversation?

[00:44:58] Is this a SAS conversation?

[00:44:59] Is there hardware involved?

[00:45:00] Like, how would I begin to understand how to a price this and be what other products could this potentially help me consolidate?

[00:45:13] Meaning like, does this help me save money in other areas or how do I, you know, how does that play out?

[00:45:19] Yeah.

[00:45:19] So, um, one of the reasons that, um, that I'm, that I'm, that I'm excited about, you know, the, the opportunity here with MSPs and, and, and, and all the conversations I have there.

[00:45:29] Um, they're all going really well and there's, there's a lot of light bulbs going off, but yeah, I mean, again, historically to do any kind of segmentation like that, you need to download a physical agent on everything.

[00:45:40] And so the way that, the way that we do it and, you know, our, our, our founders, you know, have, have, have, have, have come up with a really cool way to do this.

[00:45:48] We're, we're able to actually segment your entire network, you know, over the course of a couple of weeks because we're not requiring an agent to be downloaded.

[00:45:56] Now we can do that for, for, for certain networks and each network is, is very unique.

[00:46:02] Um, you know, has a unique setup, but, but what we do is we actually do this, um, you know, uh, via software.

[00:46:08] Uh, so we actually attach into, into the firewall.

[00:46:12] And so what we'll do is we actually install like what we call a segment server, which is just a virtual machine.

[00:46:18] And what that does is it essentially just watches the traffic.

[00:46:21] Um, it sees what you're connecting to and how frequently it is, you know, how frequent you're doing that and so forth.

[00:46:27] And it's going to auto create these, these rules and policies.

[00:46:30] And then a couple of weeks later, what we do is we actually sit down with them and we say, okay, here's, here are those rules and policies and the traffic that we've seen.

[00:46:37] Um, make, you know, we, we can make some tweaks there.

[00:46:40] And there's actually been, um, a few meetings that I've been in with, with, with partners where in that meeting where we sort of sit down and say, okay, here's, here's the traffic.

[00:46:50] And here's, here's all your assets and here's all your machines and servers and so forth that you have in your network.

[00:46:56] One is pretty enlightening, uh, for them in that conversation, because it really sort of maps out all the connections that are happening, happening as well as the frequency.

[00:47:07] But there have been some cases where we sit down in that conversation, we say, hey, there's this machine over here that's accessing these things.

[00:47:14] Um, but it's unlabeled.

[00:47:16] We don't know what that is.

[00:47:17] And it actually turns out to be a threat actor in the network watching the traffic.

[00:47:22] Right.

[00:47:22] And so we've actually, you know, been able to stop, you know, potential ransomware threats from even happening because of that.

[00:47:28] And so, you know, we're, you know, we're then able to then disconnect and so forth.

[00:47:31] But, um, yeah, it's a, it's, it's a really interesting space and, you know, the way that we're able to, you know, to, to deploy, you know, quickly and easily.

[00:47:41] It doesn't require a degree and rules and policy creation for networks and connectivities and so forth.

[00:47:49] You know, we, we do that, that policy and those rules, uh, that, that rule creation for you based on all the experience and so forth.

[00:47:58] And then, uh, again, the way it's managed is super easy.

[00:48:01] It's in, it's in one platform.

[00:48:03] You know, if, if you get a new user, a new employee, you know, you're able to then just sort of add them to, you know, to the, to the segmentation already in place.

[00:48:11] Uh, super easy.

[00:48:13] So, you know, again, a lot of this stuff that MSPs are really looking for, right.

[00:48:18] Ease, ease of management, ease of deployments, the way we go to market, uh, from a pricing perspective is extremely easy as well.

[00:48:26] We want it to be easy to understand, uh, because at the end of the day, we don't want MSPs customers spending any time on rule and policy creation, right.

[00:48:36] Let them, let them do what they do best, which is, you know, which is their, the business that they're running, um, and not, not on the back end of, of, of network security.

[00:48:46] So would you, is this based on how many physical locations, how many machines behind each location?

[00:48:54] What, how do you, do you, do you still have the agent for the roaming remote person that gets on the airplane all the time?

[00:49:00] Just zoom out here a little bit.

[00:49:02] Yep.

[00:49:03] Yeah.

[00:49:03] So we have, um, an agent list model and that's, that's what 90% of our customers use just because of that ease of deployment and ease of management.

[00:49:11] Um, but there are certainly situations where an agent is really required for whatever reason.

[00:49:17] And so we have that model as well.

[00:49:19] Um, we, we, we price, uh, by asset or by endpoint.

[00:49:24] And so, you know, there's workstations, there's servers.

[00:49:27] And so depending on the number of, of, of workstations and servers that you have in your network, um, you can, you can have those in what we sort of call learning mode and monitoring, which is just, it's, it's not an active license.

[00:49:42] Um, uh, but if you want to activate that, then that's when, that's when the, you know, the, the, uh, the, the, the price would come into play.

[00:49:49] Interesting.

[00:49:50] Okay.

[00:49:50] And then your, your, your program that you built out, is this a monthly thing?

[00:49:54] Is there a commitment?

[00:49:56] Is there a minimum?

[00:49:58] Talk about the structure real quick.

[00:50:00] Yeah.

[00:50:00] No minimums.

[00:50:01] Um, we have, we, we have, we have monthly pricing set up.

[00:50:05] Um, so again, we want to make this easy and flexible.

[00:50:08] So if you want an annual, um, an annual license, you know, we can, we can do that.

[00:50:14] If you want to get billed monthly for that, we can bill you monthly for that.

[00:50:17] Uh, very similar to, you know, to like, you know, to that PAX 8 model where if you want to get billed monthly and have a monthly subscription, have at it.

[00:50:26] We want to, we want to make this easy.

[00:50:28] We want to be, you know, we want to work with how your billing cycle and how you work with customers.

[00:50:32] So we're going to be flexible there.

[00:50:33] If you want to, you know, if you want to get into, you know, you know, get into one year and, and, and have one bill instead of 12 bills, you know, we can do it that way too.

[00:50:42] And so forth.

[00:50:42] So it's, it's a very flexible model.

[00:50:45] Again, it's designed to, to work, you know, the way that the MSP works.

[00:50:49] That's awesome.

[00:50:50] How do people get more information, learn a little bit more about like what the whole micro segmenting thing actually means?

[00:50:58] Maybe to, you know, see some information, book, book a call, get, talk to somebody, where do they get?

[00:51:03] Yeah.

[00:51:04] So, you know, several different ways, obviously social media, right?

[00:51:08] So, you know, follow me on LinkedIn, you know, connect with me, reach out to me on LinkedIn.

[00:51:12] I'm, I'm, I'm trying to be as active as, as possible LinkedIn these days, because again, there's a lot of education that needs to happen in this space.

[00:51:19] And so I'm being, I'm being more active on that front than I ever have been.

[00:51:23] And, and I'm a little outside of my comfort zone sometimes with that, because of that.

[00:51:28] I'm not that big of a big, you know, social media guy, but again, there's a lot of education that needs to happen in this space.

[00:51:34] So we're putting a lot of stuff out on social media.

[00:51:36] So obviously follow me, follow our, follow our page, you know, zero networks as well.

[00:51:40] And then obviously you can go to zero networks.com.

[00:51:43] We have a lot of use cases out there, which are really, really helpful.

[00:51:49] So we are, our, our customers are really passionate about this stuff, which is, which is really cool.

[00:51:56] And, you know, we were at a show in Vegas a few months ago and we had customers of ours say, Hey, we want to come out there with you and, and sit in your booth with you to help, you know, help educate everyone coming through here because it is such a great product.

[00:52:11] And, you know, it's so yeah, go to zero networks.com.

[00:52:15] There's, there's, there's lots of resources out there.

[00:52:18] You know, obviously check us out on LinkedIn as well for, for different, you know, blog posts, different articles that we're, that we always put out there.

[00:52:25] Um, from a, from an education standpoint.

[00:52:27] Awesome.

[00:52:28] What was your favorite Reebok swag?

[00:52:32] Ooh, uh, the Iversons.

[00:52:35] Okay.

[00:52:36] Well, as a Philly guy, I appreciate that answer.

[00:52:39] Yeah.

[00:52:39] Yeah.

[00:52:39] So if, so that's, you know, that's when, uh, yeah, anyone that's, that's seen me out, you know, um, out on the road or whatever, uh, I'm a, I'm a big shoe guy.

[00:52:47] And so, uh, I usually, you know, have to bring another suitcase just for my shoes.

[00:52:53] Cause.

[00:52:53] Oh no, don't say that.

[00:52:54] Don't say that.

[00:52:55] We don't do that on our side.

[00:52:57] I have to tell the gens of the world that she has, she can't back, you know, check her bag.

[00:53:00] Cause it's too many shoes.

[00:53:03] Yeah.

[00:53:03] Well, my problem is.

[00:53:06] Yet.

[00:53:08] I didn't check a bag at that same time.

[00:53:10] Anyway, keep going there.

[00:53:11] Yeah.

[00:53:12] No, no.

[00:53:13] I would say, yeah, yeah.

[00:53:14] Definitely the Iversons.

[00:53:15] Those were, those are a classic shoe.

[00:53:17] And so, um, I have, I have a few Iversons in my closet that I'll, that I'll pull out every once in a while.

[00:53:22] That's awesome.

[00:53:23] Well, we'll have to work about you not packing an extra bag just to bring your Iversons around, but clearly you enjoy them.

[00:53:29] Uh, thank you for joining.

[00:53:31] If you know, just in case you're listening to the audio portion of this zero networks, like you, there's no special spelling Z E R O.

[00:53:37] Um, so just check those out.

[00:53:39] Zero networks.com Aaron's last name in case we didn't, you know, make sure you know how to spell it.

[00:53:44] You can search them online.

[00:53:45] P E T E R I K.

[00:53:48] Um, so look them up on all the social media platforms and feeds.

[00:53:52] Uh, sounds like he's connected and he's got all the apps, you know, coming in on all the tools.

[00:53:57] So, you know, reach out to him as he's, uh, continuing to build out this MSP program over there at zero networks.

[00:54:02] Learn a little bit more about that.

[00:54:03] Um, looking forward to seeing you on the road.

[00:54:06] Hopefully by that point, we're not checking a bag for all the Iversons, but you'll be bringing Iversons along.

[00:54:10] I have to check those out.

[00:54:12] I'm sure we'll see you on the road next year and, uh, looking forward to, uh, definitely to, um, what 2025 brings, but before anything else from a technology standpoint,

[00:54:23] in Philadelphia, it's going to be the playoffs and we're hoping that comes to your South Philadelphia for the NFL.

[00:54:29] So, yeah, well, anyone watching, watching, uh, you know, virtually here in my background, I have a Bears helmet.

[00:54:36] So yes, I'm a Bears fan.

[00:54:38] Uh, sad to say these days, uh, tough times, tough time to be a Chicago fan.

[00:54:43] Uh, we fired our football coaches.

[00:54:44] We fired our hockey coaches.

[00:54:46] The Cubs are the Cubs and the white socks are the white socks.

[00:54:51] So yeah, it's a, it's a tough day to be a Chicago fan these days, but you know, we'll turn it around at some point here.

[00:54:58] Let's look forward to the new stadium.

[00:54:59] They talk about building over there.

[00:55:01] Yeah.

[00:55:02] Well, that's a whole nother thing.

[00:55:03] We don't know where the stadium is going.

[00:55:05] You know, it might be in the city.

[00:55:06] It might be out of the city.

[00:55:08] Hell, it might be floating in Lake Michigan these days.

[00:55:10] I don't know, but, um, yeah, we have, we have lots of, lots of work on there, but no, 2025 is going to be great.

[00:55:16] Uh, it's going to be an exciting year for, you know, for, for, for all sorts of reasons.

[00:55:20] Um, we're launching at PAX eight.

[00:55:22] So, uh, we're actually going to go, uh, we're, we're launching this week actually.

[00:55:27] So if you're a PAX eight partner out there, uh, you can actually see us in the, in the marketplace today.

[00:55:32] You can start to, you know, transact, uh, later this week actually.

[00:55:36] Uh, so that's exciting.

[00:55:37] Um, I'm going to be launching a new podcast myself as well next year.

[00:55:41] So excited to do that and connect with, you know, various folks across the channel and talk to, you know, many other MSPs and, you know, vendor folks and all sorts of stuff similar to this a little bit.

[00:55:51] And so excited for that.

[00:55:53] And yeah, we'll obviously be out on the road at lots of different events.

[00:55:56] I think we're going to average like two events a month.

[00:55:59] And, uh, if you're listening to this, I'm sure you've been to the MSP initiative events, whether it's, uh, you know, the actual, you know, event or if it was the block party.

[00:56:09] But, um, so I've, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll be at all of those next year.

[00:56:13] So I'm excited for that.

[00:56:15] And if you've not been to one of those events that MSP initiatives throws highly, highly recommend it.

[00:56:21] Right.

[00:56:21] We talk about education, we talk about networking and so forth.

[00:56:25] And, and, uh, you know, the team that, that, that George has over there with Jen and others, they're doing tremendous things.

[00:56:31] So, so very highly, highly recommend, um, attending those events.

[00:56:36] If you're going to a large event, like I say, IT nation or whatever, they have block parties.

[00:56:40] Make sure you go to those.

[00:56:41] Those are so much fun.

[00:56:42] Um, uh, and, uh, hope to see you out there.

[00:56:45] Thanks for the love.

[00:56:46] Jen, what was that shoe you got from Flowrider?

[00:56:50] Oh, the Air Force one.

[00:56:52] Yeah.

[00:56:53] Yeah.

[00:56:53] He handed it to you too.

[00:56:55] I was, I was hoping he would throw it.

[00:56:56] Cause I was, I was a few rows deep, but it didn't happen.

[00:56:59] Oh yeah.

[00:56:59] Jared, who was on here last week was like, I saw you walking around, like clutching that thing.

[00:57:03] Like it was about to blow away or something.

[00:57:08] Oh boy.

[00:57:09] Well, we know, we know people love sneakers around here.

[00:57:12] Thanks for watching guys.

[00:57:13] You'll find this session was recorded and available at mspinitiative.com under sessions, YouTube,

[00:57:18] podcatchers, all that good stuff.

[00:57:19] Follow zero networks and Aaron Pedereck.

[00:57:22] We'll catch you guys on the next one.

[00:57:24] Hopefully you guys have a good holiday season coming up here and we'll keep doing these all

[00:57:28] the way up until, uh, until we break for, uh, for that last week in December.

[00:57:33] Thanks for jumping on Eric.

[00:57:34] Catch up with you later, my friend and take care everyone.

[00:57:36] See you on the next one.

[00:57:37] Yep.

[00:57:38] Happy holidays.

[00:57:39] You too.