Ken Patterson of Todyl

[00:00:01] All right, let's try this again. Welcome to a Jan 2 edition of the MSP Initiative, MSP Talk. It is a new year, 2025, and we bring on the OGs. One Kenny P, as you all know and love, and me and my bald head here in Philadelphia, George B, or whatever you want to call me. I am here, Eagles fan included.

[00:00:25] So, you know, MSP Initiative.com, that's where you're going to find everything we do, including, you know, links to our YouTube page, Podcatcher, recorded versions of these episodes, and then a bunch of other things like our calendar for the year is posted, although we're constantly updating it because, you know, people are just throwing up all of their events, which I'm told are going to be even more than the last year or two, maybe not combined, but just cumulatively.

[00:00:53] Anyway, I digress. MSP Initiative.com, we're not going to go into it because you can go check that out afterwards. We're going to use as much time as we can to talk shop. Welcome, one Kenny P from outside of Boston. How are you doing today, my friend?

[00:01:07] Oh, I'm fantastic, George. Absolutely fantastic. What could I ask? We're starting a new year. It's time to, you know, get all those New Year's

[00:01:21] I don't even do them. What are those things called again?

[00:01:24] Resolutions?

[00:01:25] Resolutions. Come on now.

[00:01:27] I think I told on my social media feed that like the second Friday in January is where you give up on your resolutions.

[00:01:33] It's pretty quick, usually. That's why the resolution thing for me, I mean, I'll, I try to take it as maybe I'll, you know, get some things rolling.

[00:01:41] But from a resolution standpoint, I know where those resolutions lie. Like you said, maybe a week, maybe two, maybe a month. Let's try to, try to not call them resolutions so we can have them be continuous things.

[00:01:52] Although, you know, I feel a lot better now in January 25 than I did in January 24. That much I can tell you.

[00:02:01] Yeah.

[00:02:02] It's been a good, you know, 2024 was like, let's get, let's get my health, you know, figured out so that I'm not always feeling like junk after getting off an airplane.

[00:02:12] So no, that needed to be done, apparently.

[00:02:14] And I see, that's not a resolution, though. That's a life change. See that, you know, that's what I'm saying is we got to get more on track of, hey, this isn't just something we do in January.

[00:02:23] And this is something that we're going to do rolling forward, you know, as we have these conversations around physical and mental health, which, you know, you know, they're very closely tied together.

[00:02:34] I'll tell you what, you know, I, you know, I've said this in many circles.

[00:02:41] I'll say now here, you know, live in this recording, but, you know, the MSP IT services business is a hard business.

[00:02:49] I don't think anyone will convince me otherwise. I've lived it. I know you've lived it a couple of times, actually.

[00:02:58] There is a reason why hiring is still in the top three issues.

[00:03:03] I, you know, business owners in this industry have retention is right next to it.

[00:03:07] So, you know, getting the right people, keeping the right people, being able to compensate those people properly, which comes back to one of the other top five issues that these people have been complaining about for the last 20 years, like

[00:03:18] properly pricing things, adjusting pricing, how to properly increase pricing, how to notify people of pricing changes.

[00:03:25] And then you get all the other issues, right?

[00:03:28] The big guys up top, like Microsoft, deciding to just change their pricing, NCE, rack up the bill 20% more, you know, with very little notice, stuff like that.

[00:03:37] You hear about no vacations, no, you know, time off, calls at any hour.

[00:03:42] You got to be online all the time, plugged in all the time.

[00:03:45] I mean, it will wear on the, even the strongest that I know.

[00:03:51] It does.

[00:03:51] It does definitely chip away.

[00:03:55] Because at some point you can only run at that speed for so long without taking a week.

[00:04:00] That's true.

[00:04:00] I agree.

[00:04:01] I, I, I a hundred, I a hundred percent agree.

[00:04:04] I mean, it's a, it's interesting because you and I are both those personalities though.

[00:04:08] Well, well, where we will put in the, you know, 80 hour work week and the, you know, work week, maybe five days is 80.

[00:04:18] Right.

[00:04:19] Um, so we both come from that, that cloth, right.

[00:04:22] Where that's normal for us.

[00:04:24] We're going to, you know, we're going to grind it out.

[00:04:26] We're going to work it out, but it definitely does take its toll on you.

[00:04:30] You do have to take time to take care of yourself and obviously take care of your family.

[00:04:37] Take care of your loved ones.

[00:04:38] Whatever it is that you have, you know, your other connections to, because.

[00:04:43] I, I, I think some of it can, uh, can is just, you know, your word is your bond.

[00:04:47] You tell somebody you're going to be available.

[00:04:49] They're going to be able to rely on you.

[00:04:50] You don't want to, you know, let people down or tell people something that doesn't become true.

[00:04:54] You know, at the end of the day, here's what it comes down to.

[00:04:56] You also aren't charging appropriately to have the nine one triage center set up.

[00:05:02] Right.

[00:05:02] And so as a result, it all comes back down to the, you know, the person at the top of, you know, or, you know,

[00:05:07] buck stops here, check sign or whatever it is.

[00:05:10] And like, that takes a toll.

[00:05:12] You can like, at some point you need to sleep.

[00:05:15] And by the way, sleeping, I know they say you need at least eight hours, but like when you're not sleeping four hours, it's a problem.

[00:05:22] And, um, it, it is, it is exhausting.

[00:05:25] And then, and then you get, and you know, it's funny.

[00:05:27] We've had a lot of, you know, we just had MSP valuations on, uh, right before the end of the year.

[00:05:31] And, and, you know, you constantly try and like, look at the bank account at the end of the year.

[00:05:34] Was it worth it?

[00:05:36] Did it work?

[00:05:37] Right.

[00:05:37] Did you end up on the upside or are you, are you actually not even break even?

[00:05:42] Are you in debt by running this business?

[00:05:45] Socks.

[00:05:47] Yeah.

[00:05:48] And you're right.

[00:05:48] And, and it definitely starts at the top when you're talking about, you know, determining your value.

[00:05:55] Basing your prices, your prices should be covering your costs.

[00:06:00] And that means that your costs, your employees costs, um, all the things that you talk about.

[00:06:05] And quite honestly, when I was doing it, I didn't even do full after hours support.

[00:06:12] I made it so that it was so pricey that if they were serious, they do it because you know how it goes, George.

[00:06:18] There's some of these people that say, oh, I want this after hours support.

[00:06:22] And you set up this weird system where if the tech gets called, you give them a little bonus and you, you know, you do this, you do that.

[00:06:27] And nine times out of 10, they'll call and say, oh, I didn't realize that this was part of that charge.

[00:06:32] And then there's that battle.

[00:06:34] So first of all, you set expectations properly.

[00:06:38] Say, you know, say exactly what it is you do, the hours of operation, what happens if they have a full blown emergency, if that's even available.

[00:06:46] Um, you know, setting those expectations for one.

[00:06:49] And then of course, to your point, charging what you're worth.

[00:06:54] It's not that big a deal to charge what you're worth.

[00:06:57] If you're not covering your expenses at the end of the day, it's going to affect you and the people who work for you when things, when the, when it hits the fan.

[00:07:05] Right.

[00:07:05] When you get to that point.

[00:07:06] Hold on.

[00:07:07] I mean, the lawyer charges, I don't, you know, they pay that bill, right?

[00:07:11] The doctor charges, they pay that bill, but when the mechanic and the IT guy and the plumber and all these other guys charge is a problem.

[00:07:19] Like there are certain industries that are not valued, you know, from the surface for some reason.

[00:07:26] And, um, how many times, and we'll go into some of the 2024, 25, 25 stuff in a minute here, but how many times have you had a customer who's like, oh, just give me the login.

[00:07:35] I'll go and do it.

[00:07:36] And it's like, no, you're a doctor.

[00:07:39] You have no clue what we're, what, what doing it even means.

[00:07:44] So he's like, well, how hard can it be?

[00:07:46] You can figure it out.

[00:07:47] It means I can figure it out.

[00:07:48] I was like, no, I do this every day.

[00:07:50] You don't.

[00:07:51] Are you asking me to go and open somebody up underneath the needle?

[00:07:54] Because if you can figure it out, I can figure it out.

[00:07:57] George, George, give me that scalpel.

[00:07:59] Let me, let me have that scalpel.

[00:08:00] You wouldn't let me drive a tour bus.

[00:08:02] I mean.

[00:08:02] Well, yeah, that's a whole other, it's a whole other can of worms.

[00:08:06] I just, I'm just saying, I just find that the conversation is never on the level.

[00:08:11] It always seems to be discounted.

[00:08:13] Well, George, you're, you're, again, we're going to go down this road of 2024 and 2025.

[00:08:18] And this is still plays into all of this, but you still at the end of the day, talking about your value.

[00:08:23] And you have to convey as a business owner, whether it's an IT or not, plumber or not, you have to convey that value to your prospects, to your customers.

[00:08:33] And you also have to be strong enough to say no to the people who don't see that value.

[00:08:40] That's the difference between it.

[00:08:41] Now, sure, every now and again, someone might squeak through and you have the situation that you're talking about.

[00:08:45] But I feel like now there are good enough checklists that you can put in place when you're interviewing a prospect.

[00:08:53] I'll say it.

[00:08:53] You should be interviewing your prospects, just like you'd interview someone coming into a job.

[00:08:58] And you should be asking questions that go down that road of, you know, are you growing?

[00:09:05] You know, are you, are you okay with technology?

[00:09:07] Do you value technology?

[00:09:09] Do you understand what technology means to your business?

[00:09:12] You know, going down the right road of figuring out if they're even going to be the right customer changes that whole conversation.

[00:09:19] Well, I mean, you know, it's not just the right customer.

[00:09:22] It's not just the profitability.

[00:09:23] It's also the liability.

[00:09:25] Like there's the other part of the sandwich, right?

[00:09:27] The back end of the bread that you got to put, you know, like I think it's also that.

[00:09:32] I think people don't think about that until they run into a problem and they get burned, right?

[00:09:35] But, you know, bottom line is you're in business to make money.

[00:09:39] Yep.

[00:09:40] You, you, you know, if you created an IT services company for a job, I'm not sure it's, that was a good reason to do it.

[00:09:48] Just going to be honest.

[00:09:49] You know, you'd be better off working for somebody else, not having to deal with half the mess that we're talking about here, in my opinion.

[00:09:58] But if you're in business to build a business and create value and build wealth and create a profitable company that has, you know, upside to it.

[00:10:08] But yeah, picking and choosing is important.

[00:10:11] And I know I was there.

[00:10:12] Kenny was there.

[00:10:13] You take anything you can when you first turn on the lights in order to pay the bills.

[00:10:16] But, you know, not too far after that beginning stage, it begins to take negative impact.

[00:10:24] Well, George, I wouldn't even be able to sit here and talk about value and questioning if I didn't go through the pain of taking every single customer that wanted to pay me money.

[00:11:03] Oh, your cash is green.

[00:11:04] Again, building that value and understanding who your prospects are.

[00:11:08] They have to value what you do and you have to show them that you value what they do.

[00:11:12] If you have that trust, if you have that connection, you're less likely to be dealing with these problems.

[00:11:19] And if you're shedding expectations like, hey, guess what?

[00:11:22] You're not going to be paying this rate for the rest of your life.

[00:11:25] Just like you raise your rates, we raise our rates to cover the cost of taking care of you.

[00:11:30] If you can set those expectations with your prospective customers, there'll be better customers.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:37] I mean, you know, then we can go into the what's the best way to raise your prices.

[00:11:41] But, you know, I actually had a vendor send me, you know, with their bill for the month.

[00:11:46] You know, first of the month, you know, I get their bill.

[00:11:48] And it's like, oh, by the way, we raised our prices 30%.

[00:11:50] Here's the bill.

[00:11:51] And it's like, no.

[00:11:53] No, that's we're not doing this.

[00:11:55] Like, you know, like zero notice.

[00:11:57] Pay me now doesn't work.

[00:11:59] Zero notice 30% especially doesn't work.

[00:12:02] You know, if they said, hey, we raised our rates 5% or whatever, you might have a little bit of flexibility there.

[00:12:08] But yeah, that's a jump.

[00:12:10] Again, it's expectations, George, right?

[00:12:12] If you set the expectation of these are the reasons why costs couldn't go up and this is how they'll be affected and will give you a notice, not many people are going to complain about that.

[00:12:24] You know, it's like contracts.

[00:12:26] Contracts, this came up in one of our conversations, right?

[00:12:28] Somebody brought up that MSPs are not paying attention to the contracts.

[00:12:33] And I agree with that.

[00:12:34] I feel like the onus is on us too to read those contracts a little better or hire someone who knows how to read them better than us.

[00:12:41] Because we're the first ones to complain when we get hit by the you-know-whos of the world that hit us with a contract that, you know, doesn't allow us to do certain things or it gets a little bit crazy.

[00:12:53] And if we had a lawyer read that contract over, they would have been able to find that problem quickly.

[00:12:58] Again, paying someone for their services so you're not paying bigger down the line and understanding that.

[00:13:03] But I feel like as just business owners in general, we as a community need to also be better at that.

[00:13:10] Stop thinking that we can do that part of it too and have those contracts read through so that we're...

[00:13:15] Yes, it's horrible what people are doing with contracts nowadays.

[00:13:18] It's horrible.

[00:13:20] But you're partly to blame too for not having them read through properly on the other one.

[00:13:24] All right.

[00:13:25] I got a good story here.

[00:13:26] So I went to Chuck E. Cheese last night.

[00:13:28] I got two young kids.

[00:13:30] And Chuck E. Cheese now offers a subscription.

[00:13:34] All right.

[00:13:35] So instead of paying for so many games or so much time, right?

[00:13:39] It's like this ad hoc, right?

[00:13:41] Think hourly, right?

[00:13:42] I'm paying you per hour, right?

[00:13:44] They offer a...

[00:13:46] You pay monthly.

[00:13:47] Yeah.

[00:13:48] Minimum 12 months.

[00:13:50] Is this shocking?

[00:13:52] Minimum 12 months.

[00:13:53] So you pay either was like $8 a month, $12 a month, something like this, right?

[00:13:59] Like fairly inexpensive, right?

[00:14:01] Minimum 12 months.

[00:14:02] Minimum 12 months.

[00:14:03] You have to give them 15 days notice before the renewal to cancel.

[00:14:06] So you can't cancel before 12 months.

[00:14:08] And if you want to cancel for the next month, you have to give them 15 days notice before

[00:14:12] the cancellation occurs.

[00:14:14] So when I actually was going through subscribing for this, because I'm like, well, how many times

[00:14:19] I'm going to take my kids to Chuck E. Cheese this year?

[00:14:20] Well, how many times did you bring them last year and you do the math?

[00:14:22] I'm sure if Disney World had...

[00:14:24] Oh, they do.

[00:14:24] You are on that.

[00:14:25] I'm sorry.

[00:14:26] I forgot.

[00:14:26] But like, you know, they basically at the bottom were like, you have to check boxes at the

[00:14:31] bottom before you put your credit card in.

[00:14:33] Like, because they assume you did not read, right?

[00:14:36] It's like check box.

[00:14:37] You understand this is a 12 month agreement.

[00:14:39] You can't stop getting billed before 12 months, right?

[00:14:42] Check box number two.

[00:14:44] You understand you need to give us 15 days notice in order to cancel this before your

[00:14:48] billing will stop, right?

[00:14:49] Check three.

[00:14:50] Like you actually had before they would let you put your credit card number in.

[00:14:53] You had that at the bottom.

[00:14:54] I had to check these boxes because they assume you didn't read.

[00:14:57] Right.

[00:14:58] And I was like, so the kid entertainment business is adopting the same things that the

[00:15:05] SaaS world in our sandbox is doing.

[00:15:09] And I laughed and it was funny because I went to the car wash two weeks ago, you know, down

[00:15:13] the street and there, you know, they have an app, right?

[00:15:16] And they have three lanes now, right?

[00:15:17] These Nuvo car washes like, hey, you need to talk to a person at a window lane one.

[00:15:21] But if you have the app, you don't have to talk to anyone just lanes two and three.

[00:15:24] And so I get there.

[00:15:24] He's like, hey, we're running a promo for the amount you're going to pay for your car

[00:15:27] wash today.

[00:15:27] We'll give you a month subscription.

[00:15:30] I was like, okay.

[00:15:32] He's like, but if you don't cancel before this date, it's going to auto renew for another

[00:15:35] month.

[00:15:35] I was like, okay.

[00:15:37] And I was like, how many times I got to get my car wash?

[00:15:40] I was like, it's wintertime, right?

[00:15:41] Snow, salt, whatever.

[00:15:42] I was like, let's try for a month and see.

[00:15:44] Now I'm probably going to end up canceling now, but like every single industry is adopting

[00:15:49] the same things that we've been seeing in our industry for years.

[00:15:54] Yeah.

[00:15:54] Well, just remember it started with the cable company and the phone companies and the, you

[00:15:58] know, the whole thing started there, which is hilarious.

[00:16:01] When you think about people are willing to pay, they don't even know how much their phones

[00:16:04] are worth.

[00:16:06] They're like, oh yeah, I'm going to go get the brand new, you know, whatever iPhone, Android

[00:16:11] phone, whatever.

[00:16:12] They don't realize it costs $1,500 because they're like, oh, I'm paying 30 bucks a month.

[00:16:16] This is easy.

[00:16:18] Then they get locked in and then they realize they can't trade their phone in because they're

[00:16:22] under contract and they still owe money on the phone they have in their hand.

[00:16:26] And there's all these crazy clauses, right?

[00:16:29] And it's, but they don't mind that.

[00:16:31] They don't mind that.

[00:16:32] It used to be 24 months.

[00:16:33] Now it's like 36 months or 30.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] And they don't mind it.

[00:16:37] They don't mind doing that, but they, they don't want to pay an IT company who's asking

[00:16:42] them to, you know, is helping them protect their assets.

[00:16:44] Like those are those, those are those analogies that, you know, it's like, Hey, see that phone

[00:16:50] in your hand?

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:51] You know, that costs more than the computer that you're not willing to put, you know,

[00:16:53] the new computer you're not willing to replace.

[00:16:55] Oh yeah.

[00:16:56] I remember there was a time when we thought that that was crazy, but they clearly put this

[00:17:02] wrong.

[00:17:03] Palm pilot days.

[00:17:04] Uh, if you want to go back there.

[00:17:07] All right.

[00:17:07] So, um, reflective time, right?

[00:17:12] You know, so like a couple of things, you know, I was pulling up like, Hey, 2024, like,

[00:17:17] you know, funny enough timely.

[00:17:19] I got emails in my inbox.

[00:17:20] It was like, Hey, biggest news stories of 2024.

[00:17:22] I was like, Oh, let's try some of these and see if we all agree.

[00:17:24] Right.

[00:17:25] So I wanted to go through some of these quickly with you and just get your opinion.

[00:17:28] Um, so this is CRN channel company.com.

[00:17:34] Okay.

[00:17:35] 10 biggest news stories of 2024.

[00:17:37] Number 10.

[00:17:39] Again, it's not me.

[00:17:41] This is channel company.

[00:17:42] Donald Trump wins another term as president of the United States.

[00:17:48] That's, that's a, that's big news.

[00:17:50] Yep.

[00:17:50] That was number 10.

[00:17:51] All right.

[00:17:52] Number nine.

[00:17:53] Uh, broad comms, $69 billion acquisition of VM.

[00:17:59] I mean, I mean, it hasn't gone well for that.

[00:18:05] That's a lot of money, right?

[00:18:06] No, it's a lot.

[00:18:06] I mean, there's a lot of people that left VMware as a result.

[00:18:09] There was a lot of people affected by it, but in my world or in our world,

[00:18:15] I really didn't feel like that many people were that affected by VMware.

[00:18:18] I feel like when the prices got jacked by.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:21] People were moving away.

[00:18:22] They saw this coming.

[00:18:24] They started to find other, other means and other ways.

[00:18:26] Plus before that, there were things like nerdio and like, I don't know.

[00:18:31] They were just a whole other, a lot of newer technology out there that was coming into play.

[00:18:37] That was kind of taking the place of this.

[00:18:39] And then when people heard the news, they started to run.

[00:18:41] The thing that's shocking is that, you know, when you talk about 60 some odd billion dollars and you talk about the jobs that were lost and the people that got, that's big.

[00:18:49] But from an industry perspective, I don't think it had the impact on our industry as much as, you know, some other mergers or acquisitions.

[00:18:58] Okay.

[00:18:58] Well, what you just said is story number eight, that the IT industry layoffs from 21, 22, 23 continued into 24.

[00:19:08] And if you actually consolidate and accumulate all of the layoffs, it's way up.

[00:19:16] There's way more people have been cut that have been hired.

[00:19:19] And to be totally honest, even in our own sub industry of the larger tech industry, that's still true.

[00:19:25] Yeah, no, we've seen it.

[00:19:26] Look, we've had conversations about the quiet ones, the ones that don't look like layoffs, but we know that there's some kind of layoff happening, right?

[00:19:34] There are people that are just kind of switching jobs and it's gone quietly.

[00:19:38] So you don't see it as much, but we know it's out there.

[00:19:42] We know that that's happening and it's okay.

[00:19:44] I mean, I think it's better than just letting someone go, I guess, right?

[00:19:47] You're taking care of them and you're kind of, but it's not reflective of a number of saying, hey, these people are actually part of a layoff.

[00:19:56] And you're right.

[00:19:57] We saw a lot of this.

[00:20:01] I don't think it's gone down, but we also know that part of this.

[00:20:06] I expect more, actually.

[00:20:08] And I think that part of this is a part of the, what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:20:17] I think that there was a lot of just silly hiring.

[00:20:23] I'll just go, I'll go that way.

[00:20:25] I won't be negative, but there was some silly hiring, paying people more than they were worth, going out and finding multiple people and just dragging them in at this high rate and then burning cash.

[00:20:36] And then those people got into these positions, felt that they were, that's where they should be.

[00:20:42] But then the place falls to pieces and then people start shifting around.

[00:20:45] And then all of a sudden the marketplace is affected by this higher number.

[00:20:52] I think I know who the companies that you're-

[00:20:54] There's a lot, right.

[00:20:55] Yeah, there's a lot.

[00:20:56] And there's a lot.

[00:20:57] There's a lot.

[00:20:57] There's some that we're not even thinking about that we don't even really know 100%.

[00:21:01] But just in general, yeah.

[00:21:03] In general, these types of things cause these layoffs to happen.

[00:21:09] And it's still part of the bubble of layoffs.

[00:21:11] Right.

[00:21:12] And then you can't go get a, you know, the job plate, the marketplace is affected by this.

[00:21:17] A correction has to happen.

[00:21:18] Right.

[00:21:19] People either, and by the way, it's not always the correction that you think.

[00:21:23] Is it, you know, is it that people are going to say, well, this is the going rate.

[00:21:26] I'm going to pay it.

[00:21:26] Or are they going to say, well, you know what?

[00:21:28] We're not going to pay that.

[00:21:29] Right.

[00:21:30] Where's the NFL salary cap in the MSP industry?

[00:21:33] And we're talking about fiscal responsibility now.

[00:21:36] Right.

[00:21:36] A lot of these businesses have fiscal responsibilities and can't do, you know, can't just go out

[00:21:42] there and pay that.

[00:21:43] I agree.

[00:21:44] So number seven was Cisco remains itself for a new era.

[00:21:47] Eh, whatever.

[00:21:48] I don't find that interesting.

[00:21:50] I'm moving on.

[00:21:51] Microsoft moves forward with AI and co-pilot plus PCs, but hit some turbulence.

[00:21:57] It's funny.

[00:21:58] Elon Musk, I believe, I believe, I don't hold it for fact, but I believe I read that Elon

[00:22:04] Musk said that co-pilot with Microsoft is just rebranding of chat GPT in a different

[00:22:09] label.

[00:22:09] Like it is the same code.

[00:22:11] They just took a smaller watered down version of it, put a wrapper around it, put it out

[00:22:15] there.

[00:22:15] I believe he did say this, but you can go back and fact check me if you want.

[00:22:19] I got to tell you what I've seen co-pilot.

[00:22:23] I've seen so far and like a little bit underwhelming.

[00:22:27] I know it's changing.

[00:22:29] Like the whole AI thing is the new buzzword and it's changing every six months, but co-pilot

[00:22:33] typically, like I don't see a lot of value.

[00:22:38] And let me even like fraction that down for this small medium business space.

[00:22:44] I'm not seeing the value.

[00:22:48] Right now it's kind of Jan 2, Jan 2 25.

[00:22:52] As of today, I'm not seeing the value.

[00:22:54] But I'm kind of mixed on it because I know some people who have been building successful

[00:23:00] businesses around co-pilot.

[00:23:02] You know, there are some pretty smart people that we both know in this industry that have

[00:23:06] built very successful businesses around co-pilot.

[00:23:10] So, you know, and I've heard the down, I've heard the people who are underwhelmed too.

[00:23:14] So that's why I'm saying I'm mixed because in my day to day, it's not something that I

[00:23:19] use.

[00:23:20] But I think that there are a lot of MSPs and we know there are some folks that we know

[00:23:24] that use co-pilot for some pretty cool stuff and it works for them.

[00:23:29] Well, the other thing in this article they're saying was the whole Microsoft recall feature

[00:23:33] where like tracks everything you've ever done on the computer, including keyboard strokes.

[00:23:37] And it's almost like corporate spyware and that there was a big privacy, you know, people

[00:23:42] on it.

[00:23:43] And they kind of like, you know, reverted on that for a minute.

[00:23:45] And yeah, I don't know.

[00:23:49] To be seen.

[00:23:50] I just think right now I'm not going to go tell every small business person that comes

[00:23:55] and asks me for my recommendation, refresh all of your computers and go buy co-pilot

[00:24:00] computers right now.

[00:24:01] I don't see the value right now for you to do that.

[00:24:07] Just my personal opinion.

[00:24:09] I'm sure we could have maybe one of these times we'll bring a whole panel of people

[00:24:12] on.

[00:24:13] Maybe some of the people you're talking about, we'll have a different discussion.

[00:24:15] But as of today.

[00:24:15] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:16] There you go.

[00:24:16] That's a early day.

[00:24:18] Just came up with a future show.

[00:24:19] Nice job.

[00:24:20] There you go.

[00:24:20] All right.

[00:24:21] Number five out of 10.

[00:24:24] No, I'm sorry.

[00:24:25] The ongoing wave of ransom attacks and IT systems breaches.

[00:24:30] I feel like it never stopped.

[00:24:32] Why is it a new story?

[00:24:33] But OK.

[00:24:33] That's not a new story.

[00:24:35] Yeah.

[00:24:35] I mean, maybe they're going to talk about the growth, but that's going to keep happening

[00:24:38] too.

[00:24:39] Well, they talked about Snowflake, which was behind AT&T and Ticketmaster breaches.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:45] Microsoft disclosed one.

[00:24:48] Big one.

[00:24:49] United Health disclosed one.

[00:24:51] They have a list of all of these.

[00:24:52] And at the very end, it's kind of recent.

[00:24:54] It's the nine telecom networks that were compromised by the Chinese linked salt typhoon, you know,

[00:25:03] I, you know, compromised where they were.

[00:25:05] And then the FBI came out recently and were like, hey, you know, don't send text messages.

[00:25:09] You know, you know, you know, you know, just regular text messages that could be visible.

[00:25:14] And I'm like, I don't know, Ken.

[00:25:16] I, you know, listen, I haven't researched that particular story as deeply as I probably

[00:25:20] want to.

[00:25:21] I'm just going to go on a guess.

[00:25:22] I think the government, our government, the United States government had all of this back

[00:25:29] door capability into the large telecommunication companies for years, post 9-11 Patriot Act,

[00:25:34] all this, whatever.

[00:25:35] And I believe the back doors got back doors.

[00:25:39] I think, you know, it kind of looks that way.

[00:25:42] Right.

[00:25:42] And they were like, oops, like you created a door and you maybe didn't lock it well.

[00:25:48] And then somebody else found that door and walked through it.

[00:25:50] Like, and here we are.

[00:25:52] And this is a guy that, you know, is not necessarily the guy that should have been walking through

[00:25:55] that door.

[00:25:55] Not good.

[00:25:57] What do you do?

[00:25:58] It's so far upstairs.

[00:25:59] What can you really do?

[00:26:01] Right.

[00:26:01] Well, and how about the Chinese coming at the feds?

[00:26:04] I mean, there's, have you seen like this?

[00:26:06] Yeah, the Treasury Department.

[00:26:07] There's been a huge, there's been a huge amount of that just in the last quarter where the

[00:26:12] Chinese is coming at the feds.

[00:26:14] And then you have, there was one I'm trying to think of, there was another one.

[00:26:18] Oh, did you see the hijackers, the hackers hijacked 35 Chrome extensions?

[00:26:23] I saw that.

[00:26:25] Right.

[00:26:25] It led to the compromise of at least 35 extensions that injected code.

[00:26:30] And it's crazy.

[00:26:32] This isn't, this isn't, it's not that it's a surprise.

[00:26:35] It's just growing and growing and growing.

[00:26:41] Moving on.

[00:26:42] Number, number four.

[00:26:43] Number four.

[00:26:44] NVIDIA's rise and Intel struggles.

[00:26:49] You know, they're saying because NVIDIA is behind a lot of the chips that make AI turn.

[00:26:52] And, you know, even our, you know, our friend over there, Mr. J. McBain says that he thinks

[00:26:57] Intel won't exist in its current form at the end of this year.

[00:27:00] I mean, that's a, that's a statement you can make about any, every company that should

[00:27:04] be growing and evolving.

[00:27:08] Number three, HPE, Hewlett Packard Enterprise completes Juniper acquisition.

[00:27:16] 14 billion.

[00:27:19] This one, I think I have to agree.

[00:27:22] I'm surprised it's not number one.

[00:27:23] Now I'm curious to see what number one is.

[00:27:25] Crowd strike and the global IT outage.

[00:27:29] That's, that's a hard one not to argue.

[00:27:31] I can't argue that.

[00:27:33] Yeah.

[00:27:33] I think it should be the number one.

[00:27:35] And it was a process problem, not a, that was a process.

[00:27:42] Yeah.

[00:27:42] Yeah.

[00:27:43] And then there's the outstanding $500 million lawsuit by, by Delta airlines against crowd

[00:27:47] strike and all a bunch of stuff.

[00:27:49] Yeah.

[00:27:49] I mean.

[00:27:50] Oh, that's, and that's just the beginning.

[00:27:52] That's just going to cause all that's, that's like the beginning of the snowball effect right

[00:27:55] there.

[00:27:57] Yeah.

[00:27:58] I see.

[00:27:59] Now I'm definitely going to argue.

[00:28:00] It should have been number one.

[00:28:01] Number one is AI wave.

[00:28:02] And that it continues to make the, you know, remake the IT and channel industry early days

[00:28:07] guys.

[00:28:08] But you know, I'm going to, I'm going to put it, you know, if this is number one, I don't

[00:28:11] think it should have been number one, but let's say if it is, it's their number one.

[00:28:14] One a is, did you hear that the power consumption required to do all this AI stuff is it outpaces

[00:28:23] even the electric car problem, right?

[00:28:25] To the point where Europe came out and said that they're putting like a cap on how much energy

[00:28:30] usage can be used at the data center.

[00:28:32] Yep.

[00:28:34] Actually here in Pennsylvania, do you remember three mile islands?

[00:28:38] There's a Netflix.

[00:28:39] I heard it's being reopened.

[00:28:41] It is.

[00:28:42] It is being reopened for AI power usage.

[00:28:47] That is.

[00:28:48] Yeah.

[00:28:49] I did see that.

[00:28:50] And I did know that it was due to that, which is insane to think about.

[00:28:55] So like, I think it's like one of the big tech companies like Microsoft and Google are

[00:28:58] reopening and like Pennsylvania.

[00:29:00] You're right.

[00:29:00] I think, I think it is Google to be honest with you, but I was just like, dude, I was

[00:29:05] like, there's a Netflix docu-series on this meltdown.

[00:29:07] Like this could have been our version of Chernobyl.

[00:29:12] Okay.

[00:29:13] I remember live through it.

[00:29:15] Which is, you know, I think actually, I think Jimmy Carter who just passed away at a hundred

[00:29:19] years old was the president when that happened.

[00:29:23] Just to put two, two stories together there.

[00:29:26] Then another set of channel company was 24 biggest M&A deals at 24.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] I'm just going to.

[00:29:32] I saw, I saw that one and I was, I don't know.

[00:29:35] I think sometimes they reach, you know, for, for bigger.

[00:29:39] And I was like, from a standpoint of what we see in the channel, a lot of those were.

[00:29:44] Some of them are Nate, like Xerox and Lexmark was, you know, there are two names.

[00:29:47] Yeah.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] But I mean, I don't know when I think about Lexmark, even any printing, I mean, I haven't

[00:29:54] heard anything about HP print in, I don't know how long or Lexmark.

[00:29:59] The printer still exists.

[00:30:00] The printer still exists, but we're not talking about it as anymore.

[00:30:03] Right.

[00:30:04] It's not the same.

[00:30:07] Some of these I haven't even heard of, but I'm seeing a lot of the VCPE companies you

[00:30:11] heard of, like Toma Bravo keeps popping up here.

[00:30:13] And it's like, oh, you know, when you keep on seeing all these acquisitions using VCPE

[00:30:18] money, which I'm sure only goes up.

[00:30:20] Hewlett Packard and a company called Morpheus, which I actually knew SAP and a company, you

[00:30:25] know, like the big companies keep doing big company things.

[00:30:28] Right.

[00:30:29] Gobbling up what they can.

[00:30:31] Open Text buys another thing.

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:36] How's that working out?

[00:30:37] That's the thing.

[00:30:38] Like they have all these companies that they purchased, but internally they're a complete

[00:30:41] mess.

[00:30:43] Sophos buys a company who's already venture backed.

[00:30:48] You know, I just think it's a lot of big companies in big companies.

[00:30:51] Salesforce buys a company for 1.9 billion.

[00:30:55] A lot of PEVC money here, which I think is just coming back.

[00:30:59] Like now that the interest rate's going down again, or, you know, it already got, you know,

[00:31:03] the connect wise accident sky kick, which I don't know.

[00:31:05] I haven't heard anything really since that other than the deal was done.

[00:31:08] Has anything changed?

[00:31:10] A bunch of people got let go.

[00:31:12] This is true.

[00:31:14] That's another part of that whole, you know, conversation.

[00:31:17] And it was very quiet.

[00:31:18] It's very quiet to me that, you know, they had the one big name, right?

[00:31:23] One big name that they said, you know, was out.

[00:31:26] And then you didn't hear anything.

[00:31:29] And then all you hear is the rumblings.

[00:31:30] Hey, did you hear?

[00:31:31] There's a lot of people that go internally, but it's crazy.

[00:31:34] Yeah.

[00:31:35] Well, you know what?

[00:31:36] I think that there was a couple of things commingled there.

[00:31:39] If I had to guess, I don't think it was just merging of companies and redundant people,

[00:31:42] but I, you know, that's just me.

[00:31:44] I know nothing.

[00:31:46] Then the next, here's the next headline.

[00:31:48] 10 biggest tech layoffs of 2024.

[00:31:50] It's a shame that it has its own category, but it is.

[00:31:53] And like we said, this is not like, if you take 21, right?

[00:31:59] Pandemic, right at the beginning of 21, 22, 23, 24.

[00:32:04] It has just been doing this.

[00:32:06] Like, okay.

[00:32:08] Ingram Micro, they have in here 850, AMD, 1,000.

[00:32:13] A company called Cloud Software Group, 1,000.

[00:32:19] Salesforce, 1,000.

[00:32:22] Open Text, 1,200.

[00:32:25] Microsoft, 1,500.

[00:32:27] Xerox, 3,100.

[00:32:29] Cisco, almost 10,000.

[00:32:32] Oof.

[00:32:34] SAP, 10,000.

[00:32:36] Intel, 15,000.

[00:32:38] These are big numbers.

[00:32:42] That's a lot of people without a job.

[00:32:46] Still.

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:48] On top of the people who are from before, right?

[00:32:51] So.

[00:32:51] And then there's the, like you said, like we talked about, the non-public.

[00:32:54] People that they're, you know, that the numbers that you don't see.

[00:32:57] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:58] For sure.

[00:33:00] Then they have the 10 most controversial companies in 2024.

[00:33:04] Ready?

[00:33:06] C1 files for bankruptcy.

[00:33:08] Converge 1.

[00:33:10] Okay.

[00:33:10] I mean, it's not a name that I talk about every day.

[00:33:14] Nope.

[00:33:15] Evante, Connect Secure VPN hit with mass exploitation.

[00:33:19] I don't know how many MSPs are actually using that, but.

[00:33:23] Okay.

[00:33:25] Here we go.

[00:33:26] ArcServe suddenly just exits the MSP market.

[00:33:29] I thought they were already gone.

[00:33:32] So, you know, ArcServe slash Storage Craft.

[00:33:34] Remember that?

[00:33:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:35] Right, right.

[00:33:36] Yep.

[00:33:37] Dell fiscal year didn't go as planned.

[00:33:43] That has to be a big number for them to say didn't go as planned.

[00:33:48] So it's a little off.

[00:33:49] It wouldn't be news.

[00:33:51] It was a lot off.

[00:33:53] Yeah.

[00:33:54] But billions off.

[00:33:56] Yeah.

[00:33:56] Yeah.

[00:33:58] Cisco layoffs.

[00:34:01] It's a lot of layoffs.

[00:34:05] Google facing pressure to monopoly, the break of monopoly.

[00:34:11] Which I think is not totally finished yet, but it's out there.

[00:34:15] New administration, right?

[00:34:18] Then it says Microsoft secure.

[00:34:19] Number four, Microsoft security shortcomings.

[00:34:22] Copilot plus PC recall feature.

[00:34:26] Monthly billing premium increase criticism.

[00:34:30] So it's just like Microsoft as a consolidated story of controversy.

[00:34:38] Right.

[00:34:39] And then Intel turmoil.

[00:34:41] CEO resigns.

[00:34:42] Budget cunts layoffs.

[00:34:44] Of course, crowd strikes in here.

[00:34:46] Number two.

[00:34:47] Again, number two.

[00:34:51] And they have number one, Broadcom VMware.

[00:34:54] Okay.

[00:34:56] It's because of the number.

[00:34:58] 69 billion gets people's attention.

[00:35:03] Then they had 20, 20 biggest it executive moves at 24.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] Don't go down that list.

[00:35:08] Cause you're, you don't know most of them.

[00:35:09] Yeah.

[00:35:10] Not, not necessarily interested.

[00:35:12] And then I screenshotted a few different ones that I saw coming into this call off of social

[00:35:20] that I thought were timely.

[00:35:23] One of them was, here we go.

[00:35:31] This is a PEVC guy, C-level guy.

[00:35:37] And I'm not going to use a name off of LinkedIn.

[00:35:39] He says MSP community.

[00:35:41] Here's my 2025 industry predictions.

[00:35:44] Ready?

[00:35:46] I want to hear your thoughts in two categories.

[00:35:49] What will change?

[00:35:51] And what won't change?

[00:35:52] I'll start.

[00:35:53] Are you putting this on the screen or just reading them off?

[00:35:56] I'm just going to read it.

[00:35:57] All right.

[00:35:58] I'll start with a few.

[00:36:00] I'm literally reading the post.

[00:36:02] Automation and AI will meaningful, meaningfully reduce labor expenses for progressive and profitable

[00:36:09] MSPs this year, 2025.

[00:36:12] Let me read that one more time.

[00:36:14] Automation AI will reduce, meaningfully reduce labor expenses.

[00:36:19] I think.

[00:36:22] I don't.

[00:36:23] That's a kind of bold.

[00:36:24] That's not a.

[00:36:25] It's a very vague prediction because by how much?

[00:36:30] I think it's already doing it in some ways.

[00:36:32] You got companies like Roost who are automating a whole bunch of functionality that allows

[00:36:39] your techs to not spend as much time chasing the stuff that they used to chase.

[00:36:43] Right?

[00:36:43] So that's a, you know, that's somewhere where it's already doing it.

[00:36:47] So, you know, yeah, sure.

[00:36:50] It's a, it's a prediction that's already happening.

[00:36:53] By what percentage do you think it's going to be huge?

[00:36:56] That's a whole different story.

[00:36:57] Hold on.

[00:36:58] Here's his next prediction and see where this goes.

[00:37:02] Offshoring talent will become an even more increasingly popular option in 2025.

[00:37:09] I think it just might explode this year.

[00:37:14] You know, there's a possibility.

[00:37:17] And the only reason I say that is because, well, I'm torn on this one, George, because

[00:37:23] of a number of different things.

[00:37:25] But I have witnessed, you know, we both know companies that do a lot in the Philippines.

[00:37:32] Right?

[00:37:32] And the Philippines are very strong.

[00:37:34] They speak the language.

[00:37:36] They work off hours.

[00:37:38] The pay obviously is, is right up at MSP's alley, where if you want to pay, you know, less

[00:37:45] fees to get the talent to do that type of stuff.

[00:37:48] But we've seen people be very successful at it.

[00:37:52] So what's going to, what's going to, hold on.

[00:37:54] His first, his first thing is, hey, we're going to use technology to bring the labor costs

[00:37:58] down and need less people.

[00:38:00] Then he's like, oh, by the way, we're also going to offshore these jobs.

[00:38:03] So you need even less.

[00:38:04] Like, I kind of feel like we're going down a path.

[00:38:07] I know what you're, yeah.

[00:38:08] I know what you're saying with that.

[00:38:10] Maybe there's a, you know, maybe there's a thread for this person and why this is popping

[00:38:15] up this way.

[00:38:16] I just want to point out on top of the fact that there are more people available in technology

[00:38:19] industry now for hire than have ever been.

[00:38:23] But as we discussed, if their going rate is well above what people could do,

[00:38:30] they're going to go towards this, these other alternatives.

[00:38:33] Fair.

[00:38:33] Okay.

[00:38:34] That's why I'm torn on it because look.

[00:38:36] Okay.

[00:38:37] I don't, I don't feel, I don't feel like, you know me, I'm an in-person guy.

[00:38:42] I'm a, I'm a person of, you know, if I could find somebody that could do what would

[00:38:49] make the connection and be, you know, present, I would go with that first.

[00:38:56] But if there are jobs where that, that they don't need to be present.

[00:38:59] I just want to point out, but I just want to point out.

[00:39:02] And I brought it up with previous podcasts, previous conversations.

[00:39:07] Like if McDonald's who has more money than probably almost our entire sub industry as

[00:39:15] a whole generates in a year.

[00:39:17] Have tried over 90 locations in three States in 2024 to remove the drive through human being

[00:39:25] operator to receive orders so that you can then proceed to pay and collect your food.

[00:39:31] And it failed.

[00:39:34] How did the other, how is the other thing going?

[00:39:37] The kiosk in the, in the dining room.

[00:39:40] That's fine.

[00:39:41] That one is working like where they all have reduced their in store staff from, or they

[00:39:47] still have an order taker in these stores.

[00:39:49] Yeah.

[00:39:49] Yeah.

[00:39:50] Yeah.

[00:39:50] I feel like a lot of people skip the kiosk and go to the person if they can get.

[00:39:54] So there's still a cash register, right?

[00:39:56] And a person.

[00:39:57] Yeah.

[00:39:58] Then there's five, six, seven screens, right?

[00:40:00] Where you can go and put your order in on your own.

[00:40:02] But my point is they didn't totally rip out the human being.

[00:40:06] They've, and you know, now they're human beings were turned into, Hey, your order is

[00:40:09] available for pickup.

[00:40:10] Come pick it up here.

[00:40:11] Right?

[00:40:11] Right.

[00:40:12] Well, why don't you go to your favorite spot?

[00:40:15] What makes Chick-fil-A so great?

[00:40:17] It's the humans.

[00:40:18] No.

[00:40:19] Oh.

[00:40:20] And me and, you know, I was just, I had, I was just posted on my social feed that I got

[00:40:25] the invite to go to Chick-fil-A headquarters and do the behind the scenes tour.

[00:40:28] I think we should go.

[00:40:29] I think we should go Kenny P.

[00:40:31] I would love to see what their operation center looks like, but I digress.

[00:40:37] I still at my local Chick-fil-A and you know, I'm, I have Chick-fil-A, Uber's platinum

[00:40:42] status, whatever they call it.

[00:40:43] The top status universe status, not on Delta Chick-fil-A.

[00:40:46] Yes.

[00:40:46] It's the thing.

[00:40:47] Signature status.

[00:40:48] They call it good.

[00:40:49] I'm good until 2026.

[00:40:50] Right?

[00:40:51] I'm ahead of the game.

[00:40:52] All right.

[00:40:52] At my local Chick-fil-A, the mobile lane and the normal lane, like the mobile lane is

[00:40:58] still dramatically lower.

[00:41:01] I've never seen the mobile lane busier than, you know what I mean?

[00:41:04] Like there's always one car, two cars and everybody else is in the regular lane.

[00:41:10] We've seen, we've seen, you and I have been on the road and I remember the first time you

[00:41:15] took me to a drive through Chick-fil-A and there was 30 cars and I'm like, dude, we're

[00:41:19] not going to make it where we're going.

[00:41:21] You're like, trust me.

[00:41:22] And we got in the line with 30 cars and those 30 cars move faster than two cars in a McDonald's

[00:41:27] drive through.

[00:41:28] 100%.

[00:41:29] So I agree.

[00:41:30] And that they come up, they greet you, they talk to you while you're in the line.

[00:41:34] So it makes it feel a little faster too.

[00:41:36] They're already getting information and making you feel comfortable with being in that line.

[00:41:40] I got to admit, that was a crazy moment.

[00:41:42] 30 cars.

[00:41:43] And I'm like, dude, we're not going to make it.

[00:41:46] If anybody needs to take a page out of their book, Wendy's, they're always the slowest.

[00:41:50] What the hell is going on in the Wendy's?

[00:41:51] This is so damn simple.

[00:41:52] I don't know.

[00:41:53] Anyway.

[00:41:53] So then he goes off and says, MSPs that have struggled to produce, remember VCPE guy, MSP

[00:42:00] that have struggled to produce top quartile results in the past will continue to struggle

[00:42:05] unless they make a meaningful change.

[00:42:07] Oh my God.

[00:42:09] What is that?

[00:42:10] That's not a prediction.

[00:42:11] That's a fact.

[00:42:13] Okay.

[00:42:14] George, if you continue to eat the way you were eating last year, you would continue

[00:42:18] to be out of shape and feel shitty after every, like, come on.

[00:42:24] That's not a prediction.

[00:42:25] Yes.

[00:42:25] If I didn't switch from the spicy chicken sandwich at Chick-fil-A to the grilled chicken nuggets,

[00:42:29] I would have had a problem.

[00:42:30] There's no question.

[00:42:31] See, I put it all together here.

[00:42:34] I'm just saying that's not a prediction.

[00:42:36] Okay.

[00:42:43] In addition to a fully managed offering will grow faster than others.

[00:42:48] Again, that's math.

[00:42:51] That's not a prediction.

[00:42:52] Okay.

[00:42:52] Then he says, the M&A activity will feature more sub $5 million revenue MSPs than ever before.

[00:43:00] And the consolidation of consolidator trends will pick up steam.

[00:43:04] Because there's nothing else left.

[00:43:07] But then he says, the total number of transactions will decline.

[00:43:12] Hmm.

[00:43:13] That part's a little odd when you think about the fact that they are hitting the sub $5 million.

[00:43:20] I have a lot of friends that I'm talking to say that they get called and people are notifying

[00:43:25] them all the time saying, hey, we want to buy you up.

[00:43:28] Without any knowledge, without any conversation.

[00:43:30] Wow.

[00:43:31] You know that that's going to happen because a lot of the big boys are already getting picked up.

[00:43:37] I hear you.

[00:43:38] I hear you.

[00:43:39] And then I couldn't help, you know, because, you know, Jay McBain, right?

[00:43:43] He always puts out his predictions.

[00:43:45] I don't know if they're always right, but I'll give him, you know, a head nod that he puts them out.

[00:43:49] You know, so I'll read some of his predictions, shall we?

[00:43:54] For 25.

[00:43:55] He said predictions for the technology industry by 2027.

[00:44:01] All right.

[00:44:03] Five, six, seven, three years.

[00:44:05] Okay.

[00:44:05] Ready?

[00:44:06] Number one, IT spending will hit $6.3 trillion in 2027.

[00:44:11] By the end of 2034, it will be double that of 2024.

[00:44:19] By 2027, Intel will cease to exist in its current form.

[00:44:24] Yeah, of course.

[00:44:26] There's nothing left for them.

[00:44:29] Number three, Cisco's CrowdStrike, Google, Fortinet, Microsoft, Palo Alto Network, Sentinel One, Trend Micro.

[00:44:36] A lot of companies listed there.

[00:44:38] Four out of these eight vendors will be leading the enterprise cybersecurity platforms.

[00:44:46] Okay.

[00:44:47] Number four, over 95% of distributors will struggle to secure funding in the AI era.

[00:44:59] Hmm.

[00:45:00] I mean, if you're talking about the box distributors that haven't adjusted, that could be a possibility, but I don't know.

[00:45:11] Number five, actually, I referenced this earlier.

[00:45:15] EU regulators will cap total data center electricity consumption at 5% of grid as society becomes more power hungry.

[00:45:29] Number six, nearly a third of PC system level production will move away from China into Southeast Asia.

[00:45:39] Well, they may be forced to.

[00:45:44] Number seven, channel partners will outsource between five and seven of their current services to fellow partners or vendors.

[00:45:53] I think that's happening in a way.

[00:45:56] Isn't that already?

[00:45:57] I mean, you know, the, the, the, um, what do they call like the big, the big MSPs that are offering their services to the smaller, the master MSPs are offering their services to smaller MSPs.

[00:46:10] You know, we have, we know a few of them that do that.

[00:46:12] Sure.

[00:46:13] Number eight, M&A in the MSP channel will grow 45% in 2025, getting back to almost 90% of pre-pandemic levels.

[00:46:23] Well, that's completely inverted to the Lasga.

[00:46:26] Who says they'll go down?

[00:46:28] Yeah.

[00:46:30] Okay.

[00:46:31] Number nine, ARM-based PCs are set to capture 25% of the total laptop market.

[00:46:39] I guess that's why he's predicting Intel.

[00:46:44] Is that a problem?

[00:46:45] Yeah, probably.

[00:46:47] And number 10, at least half, at least half of all marketplace procurement will be done via channel partners on behalf of their end customers.

[00:47:05] What, so what's the other half?

[00:47:07] Shadow IT?

[00:47:09] Or the actual or direct.

[00:47:13] And isn't that what, like, isn't PAX 8's marketplace supposed to be more of an approach where they've worked with the partners to set up these places, these things in the marketplace?

[00:47:24] And then when a end user goes to the marketplace and picks something, they go, oh, George Bardisi, here's your match.

[00:47:32] And here's, this company wants these things, right?

[00:47:34] I have yet to see that happen, but okay.

[00:47:37] Well, but that's the direction from what I've seen, you know, just for in the last year or so, maybe two, the conversations seem to be pointing towards that, which makes sense.

[00:47:48] But so that would be the other way, right?

[00:47:50] Where, you know, they're able to, just like they do anywhere else, go shop for it themselves because it's already been done, put up on a marketplace, and then they match you up with an MSP.

[00:48:00] I'll believe it when I see it.

[00:48:01] How about that?

[00:48:01] Yeah, I see it.

[00:48:02] I know.

[00:48:03] Bold ideas, but it's all about execution at this point.

[00:48:06] Okay.

[00:48:07] So at this point, we get into any predictions for 2025?

[00:48:16] Oh, you know.

[00:48:17] Anything that comes off the top of your head?

[00:48:18] I don't do predictions because I'm bad.

[00:48:21] I'm bad at predictions.

[00:48:23] That's why when I say these things, it's more about absolutes.

[00:48:26] Sure.

[00:48:26] How about this one?

[00:48:28] I'm going to pander a little bit.

[00:48:30] I think that B-Voib's going to have a stellar year.

[00:48:34] I see you guys made a big move and you got a new employee.

[00:48:37] See, everybody else is letting people go and B-Voib's hiring people.

[00:48:40] So you and your team and Ryan Denning for 2025, I think it's going to be a ban a year for you guys.

[00:48:46] So there you go.

[00:48:47] I appreciate you saying that.

[00:48:48] Obviously, this is not a B-Voib podcast.

[00:48:50] But that being said, yeah.

[00:48:52] That's why I said it and you didn't.

[00:48:54] See how that works?

[00:48:54] We did not prepare for this, guys, before this episode.

[00:48:57] No, I appreciate you saying that.

[00:48:59] Now, listen.

[00:49:01] Actually, funny enough, and I'll kind of put this thought out there.

[00:49:04] So I posted this one right before New Year's on the 29th.

[00:49:08] It was like a 10-year kind of like think-back session.

[00:49:14] And I posted it as a blog article.

[00:49:15] But it's like, hey, we got to 10 years as a software vendor company in the IT manager services, kind of bubble, sandbox space.

[00:49:26] And we've all heard the cliches, right?

[00:49:28] If you make it to four years, you're past 80% of the businesses out there, et cetera.

[00:49:34] I put a bunch of different things that I reflected on.

[00:49:37] And I'll just give you the titles, right?

[00:49:39] Like the team.

[00:49:40] And I kind of referenced a lot of how the NFL works and how GMs work and the partners, the technology, the just general business outlook, the community, collaboration, just mindset.

[00:49:52] And then like what comes next from here.

[00:49:54] Here's the reality, right?

[00:49:57] You learn a lot of stuff as you go along.

[00:49:58] So I remember Andy Reid, who was a football coach.

[00:50:02] And before he went to Kansas City and started winning all these Super Bowls, he's in Philadelphia for almost 14 years.

[00:50:09] And we always said in sports radio here in Philadelphia, he was stubborn.

[00:50:13] He couldn't just follow the trend of the rest of the industry.

[00:50:15] He had to do it his way.

[00:50:17] Yeah, I think we're all stubborn from this part of the world, Andy.

[00:50:20] So like I don't blame you for 14 years of that mentality.

[00:50:23] But, you know, could have taken outside money, right?

[00:50:28] Could have done what a lot of other companies in the industry did, right?

[00:50:32] And I think by not doing that and by like bootstrapping it and that like it gave us the freedom to do things that were not status quo and following the rules and living in between the lines of that were painted by others.

[00:50:48] And we did some cool things, right?

[00:50:51] Like, you know, created some cool experiences.

[00:50:53] We went on a tour bus with Kenny P and a bunch of other people when other people said it was reckless and couldn't be done safely, which was not true.

[00:51:00] You know, we turned out to be the safest thing that anybody did during COVID.

[00:51:04] How's that?

[00:51:05] Not one person.

[00:51:06] George, think about it.

[00:51:07] Not one person either on the bus or at the event got COVID from that, from either one, from either place.

[00:51:14] You know, so like I think back and I say, I don't think we would have had the autonomy to do some of the things that we had if we had, you know, the people behind the people, right?

[00:51:25] And the strings that come along with that.

[00:51:27] So, you know, I look back and I genuinely appreciate that we had that flexibility.

[00:51:34] And I don't think we would have had as fun a time doing what we're getting to this point otherwise.

[00:51:39] All that being said, you're also forced to make decisions that you may not agree with.

[00:51:44] You know, and I've seen, I won't name them by name, but I read my mind, Ken.

[00:51:49] You know, I know a lot, a lot more than I can count on these two hands companies in the last 10 years in our space that were forced to make, you know, people changes, business terms changes.

[00:52:02] Just genuinely things that like a business, it's like anti-business almost logic.

[00:52:08] And we're like, why did you do that?

[00:52:10] And it was because of these backroom terms of, you know, of taking outside money.

[00:52:14] And you know what? It stinks, right? Because it puts good people in a bad position when that happens.

[00:52:20] And some of the people you referenced, right?

[00:52:21] They got catapulted into a stratosphere where they were getting paid a lot of money.

[00:52:27] And I'm not saying that they weren't valued.

[00:52:29] I didn't say that there wasn't benefit to that person in that role and that expertise.

[00:52:34] But like, you know, when you get into a role with a big title, there's big expectations.

[00:52:39] When you get paid a lot of money, there's a lot of expectations that come along with that.

[00:52:42] And you know what? When you can't hit targets that are probably more than punching up, maybe out of reach.

[00:52:50] There's a there's a there's a an action and consequence thing that happens, right?

[00:52:55] Yeah. And we saw we saw a lot of my thing for it's not a prediction.

[00:53:01] It's more advice or just follow what's, you know, pay attention to what's going on for the vendors out there.

[00:53:08] It takes a long time to build a community.

[00:53:11] It doesn't take three months to build a vendor community, an actual community.

[00:53:16] And so when you get out there and you think it's going to take you set expectations of three months, six months, whatever.

[00:53:23] George, you and I have talked about this number of times where vendors are coming to the space.

[00:53:27] They hire some of the right people and then they have these awful expectations and then things just kind of go sideways.

[00:53:35] You got to understand that this process takes 36 to 48 months to build.

[00:53:42] If you're building a new program, that's typically the real length.

[00:53:47] Does it mean you go in from, you know, I'm not talking about to blow it all, blow it up.

[00:53:52] You can blow things up somewhere in the middle, but to build a real program and get that, get it out there properly.

[00:53:58] It takes a long time to do.

[00:54:00] It's not that I say I'm sorry.

[00:54:02] I said the wrong timeline, George.

[00:54:03] George, what I'm saying is don't.

[00:54:07] But I've also seen communities that have been around for a long time go the other way.

[00:54:14] I just saw the note that I missed that note.

[00:54:19] I mean, I missed it too.

[00:54:21] Hold on.

[00:54:22] Let's see.

[00:54:24] It's in the Q&A.

[00:54:25] Let's see.

[00:54:25] Sorry, guys.

[00:54:26] Sometimes.

[00:54:27] You don't want to say that when I say that out loud.

[00:54:30] Okay, Pete.

[00:54:31] Yeah, we might not.

[00:54:31] Sorry.

[00:54:32] So anyways, just understand the expectations when you're trying to build a program.

[00:54:37] And then the other side of this is MSPs.

[00:54:41] Again, when you're looking to grow and build what you're doing, one, don't let anybody tell you that you're, you know, what you're doing is completely wrong.

[00:54:49] But the flip side of that is to George's point earlier, don't be so stubborn that you're not willing to change if it means it's going to get you to a next level where you want to be.

[00:54:57] We see it far too much where we get so locked into something.

[00:55:03] Now, here's an example.

[00:55:04] If you're doing break-fix and it's working for you, don't listen to anybody tell you that break-fix is wrong.

[00:55:10] It's not wrong.

[00:55:11] You're doing break-fix.

[00:55:12] You love it.

[00:55:12] And it works.

[00:55:13] The world needs break-fix.

[00:55:15] We need MSPs that don't want to do that.

[00:55:17] Love you.

[00:55:18] So if that's what you're doing, do it.

[00:55:20] And do it right.

[00:55:21] Do it ethically.

[00:55:22] You know, be strong at it.

[00:55:23] What I'm talking about from the other side of this is if someone's willing to give you advice or help you along the way, check it out.

[00:55:33] Look at it.

[00:55:34] See a different point of view.

[00:55:35] And by the way, sometimes things that people give you ideas, it's not taking the whole idea.

[00:55:39] It's taking a piece of that idea and tying it to the way you do business.

[00:55:43] And sometimes that's where the coolest things happen is merging it with the way you think and changing your business.

[00:55:49] That's how I did it back in the day when I finally woke up and I didn't wake up on my own.

[00:55:53] Somebody kicked me in the pants.

[00:55:55] Right, George?

[00:55:55] We, you know, we talk about that.

[00:55:57] Sometimes it takes people, you know, giving you a nudge and saying, hey, what are you doing?

[00:56:01] And we all need that.

[00:56:03] But if you want to grow, especially going into what's going on now, if you really want to be a full-blown MSP, you got to start listening.

[00:56:10] You got to start opening yourself up and you definitely have to take care of your people and your teams and make sure that they're a part of the process.

[00:56:18] Wow.

[00:56:19] That would be my advice going into 2020.

[00:56:20] Here's my advice to the people on the other side.

[00:56:25] You can also be very stubborn on the other side.

[00:56:28] And the whole too big to fail is baloney.

[00:56:31] Yeah.

[00:56:32] I think we've seen it play out before our eyes.

[00:56:35] So just because you say you have built a community and this concept of you are the community of all communities is the biggest bunch of bad baloney in the dumpster behind Walmart I've ever heard.

[00:56:51] I'm sorry.

[00:56:52] Community is specifically broken.

[00:56:54] It's like a neighborhood, multiple neighborhoods in the same city, right?

[00:56:58] There is no one community of all communities.

[00:57:00] And you can absolutely go down just like anything else if you neglect.

[00:57:05] And quite frankly, people are going to go to what helps them.

[00:57:09] And if they don't feel that they're being helped, they're not going to keep going.

[00:57:13] Yeah.

[00:57:13] You don't want to get me started on the word community.

[00:57:15] I think that word has been thrown around more than maybe a little bit less than AI, but it's still been thrown around quite a bit.

[00:57:23] It's like there is a need for it.

[00:57:25] No, there's a need for it.

[00:57:27] But there's a need for true community, George, to your point, where people are using the word community to suck people into an idea.

[00:57:34] And that's not the right idea.

[00:57:35] If you're talking about community, we talked about this before.

[00:57:39] Eric Bowles is my guy for bringing to light what I've been thinking the whole entire time.

[00:57:44] Community is not about belonging to something.

[00:57:47] Community is about belonging to something that makes belonging matter.

[00:57:51] That's true community.

[00:57:52] But somewhere in the middle of everything you just said.

[00:57:55] There's people helping people.

[00:57:57] Right.

[00:57:58] That's what I mean.

[00:57:59] Hold on.

[00:57:59] If you help me.

[00:58:00] Without the expectation of something back.

[00:58:04] Exactly.

[00:58:05] Without expecting things in return.

[00:58:07] That's 100%.

[00:58:09] I actually have that in a write-up somewhere.

[00:58:12] The whole pay it forward thing, right?

[00:58:14] Like I wish somebody helped me.

[00:58:15] I learned the hard way.

[00:58:17] But if I can help somebody else not have to learn the hard way that I already did something better.

[00:58:22] That mentality is what we're talking about.

[00:58:25] Not the, hey, you're a community for a price.

[00:58:27] Yeah.

[00:58:28] Hey, you're a community because I've now made you the product.

[00:58:31] Hey, you're a community because I'm going to tax somebody else to make sure that you get what you need.

[00:58:35] But they are disenfranchised.

[00:58:37] That needs to stop.

[00:58:39] Yeah.

[00:58:40] 100%.

[00:58:40] I agree.

[00:58:41] We could do a whole other show about community, but we're at time.

[00:58:46] I got you, brother.

[00:58:48] Well, 2024 is in the books.

[00:58:50] I hope everybody got all.

[00:58:51] Yeah.

[00:58:52] You know, everybody waits to the tax man in March and April.

[00:58:54] Be ahead of time, please.

[00:58:56] You know, like get your stuff together.

[00:58:57] So you're not waiting till the last second.

[00:58:59] This is a guy who, you know, speaks from experience.

[00:59:02] It's 2025, all I can ask anyone, you know, that listens to this podcast is don't be so blinded that you're unwilling to ask for help.

[00:59:17] Even if it's just a floating idea and you're looking for feedback, ask, put it out there.

[00:59:23] Right?

[00:59:23] I'm not saying, you know, give your IP out for free, you know, but like, you know, Elon Musk edition, like here it is.

[00:59:29] Go download all my stuff, make electric cars.

[00:59:31] But, you know, like there is help out there.

[00:59:34] There's absolutely help out there.

[00:59:36] And if you don't look for it, you're not willing to talk about it.

[00:59:39] You're not willing to accept it.

[00:59:40] You're going to be back in castle mentality land where, you know, everybody's your competitor.

[00:59:45] It's so much more to that, you know, than that idea.

[00:59:49] And quite frankly, you know, Ken's one of the guys out there that I wish I had met Ken sooner, to be totally honest, in the journey.

[00:59:57] Right?

[00:59:57] Because like, Ken was a guy that, you know, was a pay it forward guy that, you know, had I, had I even just a couple of years ahead of time.

[01:00:04] You know, had I run into Ken, I probably wouldn't, probably wouldn't have waited till 2024 to go, you know, get some of my stuff cleaned up.

[01:00:10] But I digress.

[01:00:11] Here we are.

[01:00:12] Everything happens when it's supposed to happen.

[01:00:14] Ken, appreciate you, buddy.

[01:00:16] And for everyone, you know, I'm sure, hey, we're all fact checkers here, right?

[01:00:22] This episode was recorded.

[01:00:24] You can go back and listen to all these 2024, 2025 predictions.

[01:00:28] We'll see how they turn out, you know, in 2026.

[01:00:31] Have a great year, Ken.

[01:00:32] I'm sure I'm going to see a lot of you, you know, at a Chick-fil-A somewhere in some city.

[01:00:36] Yeah, that's not really what we usually see each other, but unless we're on a bus.

[01:00:39] But, yeah, no, looking forward to 2025, looking forward to, you know, continuing to do more with the community as a whole, right?

[01:00:49] And I know George is a big part of that.

[01:00:51] That's, I think if George and I had had a chance to do the bus thing a hell of a lot earlier, it would have been definitely more beneficial for both of us.

[01:00:59] But the bus did make that change and allow us to make some positive impact on each other and really, you know, try to get this community thing right, which is still evolving.

[01:01:11] And I'm hoping that 2025 will continue that trend.

[01:01:15] And I know I'm going to see you at a party somewhere for sure.

[01:01:19] But, yeah, man, I'm just glad to be a part of it.

[01:01:23] I think we have some really cool stuff going on this year together and separately.

[01:01:28] I think both our companies are going to do well.

[01:01:30] We got a lot of cool things going on.

[01:01:32] So looking forward to seeing that.

[01:01:34] And, yeah, man, happy new year, everybody.

[01:01:37] Just a really cool time.

[01:01:40] Looking forward to seeing you, buddy.

[01:01:42] Talk to you, everyone else.

[01:01:43] Talk to you somewhere along the line.

[01:01:45] Hopefully somewhere in person out on the road.

[01:01:48] Maybe not a tour bus, but a hotel lobby bar somewhere or Chick-fil-A.

[01:01:53] Take it easy, guys.

[01:01:54] See ya.

[01:01:55] Bye, guys.