Live from FLOW 2024

[00:00:03] Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a June 18th edition of the MSP Initiative, MSP Talk. And we are fresh back off the road. I mean, fresh off the road. We were in multiple countries last week. We'll go over that here.

[00:00:20] And some general housekeeping and then we'll get into the good stuff as we are absolutely live and in person in this very special edition of MSP Initiative live. We are in Tampa at Flow, which we'll talk to you about this event here in a moment.

[00:00:35] So here's some general housekeeping that we usually do at the beginning of all of these sessions, MSPinitiative.com. This is where we park everything that we do here at MSP Initiative. For example, this session is being recorded.

[00:00:45] We'll post it here on our YouTube page or podcatcher and sessions under the menu here at MSPinitiative.com. We have MSP Community Minds. If you came out to Nashville, thank you, thank you, thank you. We have a new one coming up in September in Denver of 25th, 26th.

[00:01:00] So if you're interested, check out Community Minds on MSPinitiative.com. For everyone who came out to either the MSP Community Block Party at PAX 8 Beyond in Denver last week or for people like George who decided to fly to two places at once, the MSP Block Party in Dublin with Datacon, thank you.

[00:01:20] We hope you had an absolute blast. We have photos and videos and like, you know, photo booth pictures and all that stuff coming to you very shortly. It'll be posted. We'll now say so stay tuned. And there's more block parties coming.

[00:01:33] So if you're interested in knowing the ones coming up, hit the Community Block Party page on MSPinitiative.com. You'll notice that we have ones coming up in Australia, here domestically in the U.S. I think we've hit our European spots for the year, but don't worry.

[00:01:48] A lot of those people come over to the other side anyway. Lastly, some community offers if you find any deals on the Community Offers page that help you great use them if not all good and our industry calendar.

[00:01:58] If you really want to be on the road, there's like 300 events for you to go to is also posted at MSPinitiative.com. You can check it out there. We do that to make your life easier. So that was four or five minutes of housekeeping.

[00:02:09] We're out of the way. My first special guest of the day here, by the way, if you don't you never heard of the Flow Conference, this is an absolutely first time event.

[00:02:18] All right. This is the first of its kind. We're here right next to the airport area here in Tampa. And if you know we've had we've had them on before but a real good friend of mine and a guy who's been in the in the sandbox for a long time,

[00:02:33] Charlie Tomeo from Roost. How you doing, Charlie? Good to see you, George. So tell us about the thought and the idea around this new event.

[00:02:43] Yes, I think as you know, I've joined Roost about a year and a half ago now, automation platform, definitely something that I think the MSP community was either looking for didn't know they needed it, however you want to put it.

[00:02:59] But, you know, we started to think, you know, what wouldn't be great when you see somebody's other vendors that are doing something that either, you know, similar to what we do wouldn't be great to just get together and do something that's just about automation.

[00:03:14] As you know, AI in there as well right because, you know, AI is everywhere. AI is everywhere.

[00:03:20] I just get a bunch of thought leaders in, have people talk about it to have some of the MSP's that we consider more of the early adopters, you know share of you know what they're doing, you know what they're learning, you know what they've learned on and be able to share some of those things.

[00:03:36] So we're seeing that already. So just to be clear, while Roost is staffing this event. This is actually an industry events not a Roost conference. No, that's correct. Okay, it's not Roost conference.

[00:03:50] I'm just working for the Flow conference today. Got it. So we're trying to make sure that we do that. I think it's in the best interest of the community to get talking so you know if you see we have, you know, likes of Nerdio here, MSP bots, SaaS alerts, you know, Crush Bank, you name a list and then you know,

[00:04:10] you know people that are big, you know, have been a big part of community for a while. You know, we have Kinect wise, because say some security plays backup plays, you know, Axie and Sentinel one.

[00:04:21] Even Halo is here I saw. Yeah, Halo is here so it's great. You know, it's great to see those guys come out and not just support us in our first conference but also support the community. That's awesome. How many people did you get to this conference?

[00:04:36] We hit our max which was 240. So that's 240 attendees. We did a couple of free days, we did a free day on specific bootcamp on training on automation and Roost and then we also did one that was Bo Bullock actually was the one that hosted it.

[00:04:54] And that was more of M365 security and had a bunch of people coming out for that so it was kind of standing room only. It's good for a first time event.

[00:05:03] Yeah, for, I mean, everybody's been following me they know I have a lot of feelings about events, but how long have you been working to put this together I mean it's not something you can do in 30 days. No, this has been months into working.

[00:05:17] And you know just sometimes you just have to, as you know, you've been doing events for years. Sometimes you just have to do it. So, yeah, as always we'll get better and we'll learn from it.

[00:05:29] I think the great thing that I think we all feel is the fact that like I said the community came in around us.

[00:05:35] We had to cut off registration at one point, which is you know a bit unfortunate but we are going to make sure that people that were coming had a good experience.

[00:05:43] That's good. I mean listen there's also like fire marshals and capacity and all that other stuff right so like the people upstairs always have their fun with that.

[00:05:51] Dan it's pretty cool to see you know we have people from, and I'll forget somebody but Italy, Australia, UK, Ireland so you know it's even something that's kind of, you know, further reaching.

[00:06:05] That's awesome. Like, oh, yeah, not just thinking about the calendar just thinking about what happened last week right two major conferences on on either side of the ocean here.

[00:06:16] Did you play the proximity to the large events on when you park this in the calendar or did really not matter? I just said you look at the calendar. We only had maybe two days we could fit it in.

[00:06:28] You know if you look at all the things that are going on and you know, obviously we all don't have time to do everything. Yeah.

[00:06:34] But, you know, even with some of the, you know, I mean this year I still can't believe it's, it's only mid-year. Yeah, and I think we've been run.

[00:06:43] Right. Yes. Yeah, I've seen so many people on the road throughout it so it's really interesting but we'll try to fit it in as best we could.

[00:06:53] You know right after the Father's Day which you know maybe wasn't the greatest for the people that had to fly out that night but we just try to be respectful of people's time and also other events that are going on.

[00:07:05] So let's talk about this category real quick this RPA robotic process automation like Gartner word right like we didn't come up with.

[00:07:16] There's like three ish companies that are like focused in MSP IT land right I know there's enterprise companies that do similar things or are in the category, but it's a relatively maybe sub three sub four year olds angle right like thing. So, I think there's a lot of

[00:07:42] I think there's a lot of militants in the closet from RMM days right, we're like, a lot of people got sold the message that.

[00:07:49] Hey, this thing is, you know, turn the key start using it it's easy and and I think very quickly everybody realized after they bought the car that no it doesn't just have turn signals I need to have somebody build them for me.

[00:08:02] A lot of especially it managed services companies just didn't have DevOps, or even in this realm of coding capability right to build scripts and like create things they were users right not necessarily creators.

[00:08:18] That's right so when it comes to your category. Is that like how much of a challenge is that. Yeah, so I think you know you're 100% right really depends on who it is you know how they're out and Bob they're going to get.

[00:08:32] You know for but for us, you know, it's the reason why we pre built about a bunch of motivations. So we call them crates so anybody that's seen our logo knows that, you know, our branding is definitely around roosters chickens.

[00:08:47] So we have people that are kind of great people. They just focus on us so you know I ran to a guy last week and beyond. And he was saying hey since the last time we talked last year I have 100 crates from.

[00:09:00] Wow, is like I've never coded anything. So he just came from your catalog. Yeah, and he's like just turned them on we're just getting a ton out of it. So people like that we have people that are just amazing and anybody that's been in it.

[00:09:14] Yeah, MSP space for a minute knows how creative MSP czar that go in, they take a couple of classes we have a actually pretty excessive curriculum for them to come in, not just learn about Bruce but learn about automation best practices building

[00:09:30] processes that's like university or fuck you. And so we have people that go to a few of those classes and all of a sudden they're building, you know, they're building nine custom automations over a weekend.

[00:09:42] Wow. So we have a bit of those and then you know we do have the people that are looking maybe to not do either.

[00:09:50] So, you'll see here we have your Zen top and Raven who are sponsors, the conference. They're actually able to build, you know, anything you want to their customers.

[00:10:03] Yeah, they're pro services they'll go out and build something that you need so it really depends on the angle that you want to go for it. And we see some people doing it, you know, almost all three, in some respects, where, you know, they're starting just using what was already built

[00:10:19] and then they're leveraging pro services to go and build the stuff that's a bit more custom for them.

[00:10:24] So would you say that you don't need to be a larger it shop in order to use this then like, let's say you're five or below, do they still qualify for something like that.

[00:10:37] It's amazing to see, you know, a lot of the newer MSP are looking at it as a way for them to grow their business without, you know, they don't have the resources for the headcount.

[00:10:48] So if all of a sudden you're certainly you know you're saving hundreds of hours a month and you're not focused on those repetitive day to day fairly easy tasks.

[00:10:58] If somebody if you're just automating those, and you're taking those five people and you're actually getting a lot more out of it for sure I'm dead 10 people over time so that's the feedback we've gotten from them and we had one part of that.

[00:11:10] Over a weekend he took a couple of glasses and he built, you know, 10 automations and he's like yeah I'm saving hundreds of hours, but when they're building these automations like are they literally writing lines of code or is like, is it visual.

[00:11:24] Yeah, it's a lot of it's drag and drop so they could do that. They could write it as well. They could use use a piece called Robo roosty, which is AI driven they could put in basically what they want to get out of it and it'll write the code and ginger

[00:11:39] for them. So there's a lot of ways to tackle it. And you know if you if anybody that's looked at us, you know, even a year ago. It's almost not the same product.

[00:11:50] Well, if you know so I just hit 10 years in my one company, getting all these you know you know the LinkedIn messages and one person reached out and I said, you could if you can think of the things that you learned across the 10 year window.

[00:12:05] What are the, what are the key points and like I really would have to write this down because there's so many. Right. But one of them is like, keep innovating. Right, like people who stop creating things right like it's a fast realm that we're all a part of right and like you can get to a point where you just, you've lost touch with, you know, the newness of what technology can bring right.

[00:12:28] Yeah, that's why you see, you know, it's one of the spaces that we have new vendors popping up all the time. Right, we even had very like pointed vendors to fix a problem.

[00:12:38] And it's because you know in some cases you get to that point where you just can't or don't innovate anymore.

[00:12:45] So I think that's that's where the community jumps in we even see a lot of former MSP is that now our vendors fair. Right. So, it's definitely a unique space.

[00:12:55] Yeah, 100%. Well let's bring in our second guest and we'll have both of you at the same time because we're all in the same circle.

[00:13:02] I'm sure everybody you know out here that watches this probably heard him in one way or one fashion one form. Bring Rob Ray onto the show today. Hey Rob. Good. How are you doing George. Surprisingly feeling good after all the airplanes that I've taken the last day.

[00:13:20] So, we were all in Denver last week. And want to talk a little bit about, you know, pack safe beyond right here too. Right, I would say, I haven't heard anybody coming away from that event thinking it wasn't premium.

[00:13:35] Well that's good to hear. So, vetting through the survey results. Okay, that's good to hear. So, what were the final metrics on this thing, how many people got there like, how many people were able to squeeze into that building.

[00:13:47] It was, it was good actually so so we were just over 1500 MSP is actually attend. I think we're just over 1600 and read so rich to attend rate is actually really good. That is good. And then add in 110 vendors, including Bruce and people.

[00:14:05] Both of you award winners by the way, congratulations.

[00:14:11] So overall I think we're 23 2400 people but that that venue actually if you remember where the vendor hall was, we can actually fit about 8000 people up into there so we'll do some rejigging for next year and make sure we got lots of space for hopefully similar growth.

[00:14:27] That's awesome. Yeah. So like one more year at the same place. One more year in the gaylord in Denver. Okay.

[00:14:34] And then, I think you're taking pre registrations already for next year we have we already were you have about 600 or 700 sign up for next year which is amazing. Wow, wow. And then there is the European first time version of this coming up in October, correct.

[00:14:49] Yeah, October 13 through the 15th in Berlin, Germany. Awesome. And so this was the, this was the conference that never happened in the past life right.

[00:14:57] And then you said, Well, I mean, I've always wanted to do like a Berlin if you haven't been to Berlin it's an absolutely amazing city it's it's culturally just very very different.

[00:15:08] You know fantastic people fantastic food and, you know, like I said the culture is just like a place you've never been to before. New Airport which makes it even easier to get to all those types of things so you know I love the opportunity to bring people to a place that

[00:15:21] Plus, you know Europeans is relatively easy for them to travel but your our goal is to also get Americans Canadians everybody to try to come out to that as well. I didn't know about the new airport that sounds fun. Yeah. I mean for all the not great airports here on the east coast.

[00:15:35] I'm down for New Airport and this is after Oktoberfest right so like yeah Oktoberfest is the last week of September. So, and that's, you know, although you can talk to her about celebrated worldwide but just technically birthplace I believe is a Munich.

[00:15:49] Yeah, so you know it's not far maybe a three hour train ride so I know there are some people that are going to partake in Oktoberfest and then back up to Berlin for that's so funny that people like don't realize that it's actually September event.

[00:16:00] Correct. It's the celebration of October coming so so all those pumpkin beers pop up right. Awesome. I don't think the Germans are drinking pumpkin beer. I think that's an American invention. Of course we did that just like french fries.

[00:16:16] Let's talk a little bit about because, you know, you know both companies represented this table have a pretty good story to tell around some of the new things that came out last week right like Bruce is all about automation but I think a lot of the marketplace announcements

[00:16:31] that came from PAX eight last week kind of are in a very similar realm right like what exactly did everybody wake up to this week in their portals.

[00:16:42] Yeah, it was, it was. It's something that we've been working on for a couple of years and to be honest, you know myself I joined packs eight about a year and a half ago they showed me the vision of what it was that they wanted to do here with marketplace,

[00:16:53] and you know it's a catchphrase and all this these are going to start using marketplaces catchphrase if they haven't already but this is a genuine actual marketplace so

[00:17:03] we went to GA with a lot of things that we've been talking about for some time and packs eight partners will notice that there's a little toggle switch at the top of their portal page where they can actually toggle into the new marketplace but in essence the old marketplace

[00:17:16] would have been just what we like to refer to it just a dumb product catalog click on a logo fill in a form and provision licensing.

[00:17:25] Whereas the new marketplace there's a whole ton of different technologies that are utilizing a lot of it as AI driven where we can actually utilize these things to make product recommendations you know it's like add in and automatically just add in some

[00:17:42] technologies we can because we have 35,000 partners that are doing it is like 400,000 end user businesses. We actually have intelligence on each of those individual businesses so again product recommendations we can take a look at the entire landscape of all the end users and make

[00:17:58] recommendations MSP said this typical end user of that size in this vertical in this geo whatever typically by these types of tax and we can make those recommendations.

[00:18:07] If you look at technologies like roots, that's perfect example. A lot of it is kind of new that a lot of MSP haven't discovered that so again it's an opportunity for us to say hey MSP self like size or generally having success selling these types of products,

[00:18:20] you should take a look at roost or something along those lines so you know and that's just one small piece of it.

[00:18:25] So beyond that MSP have the opportunity to kind of take a look at other tax without necessarily engaging with those vendors directly so you don't get on somebody's mailing list or have to sit through a million demo calls you have the opportunity to kind of explore those things

[00:18:39] as well. It's just it's a it's a easier newer and more automated way for us to engage and obviously help partners find more profitability.

[00:18:50] So, I had a chance. Second, third person now on the show Aaron now CEO over at roost. So like we were all at beyond right this is great. One of the key themes, and I was able to sit on a lot of the general sessions that beyond was around AI, right.

[00:19:05] So I heard Scott Jason new CEO of a fact they talk about what he felt was the future right and I got a glimpse of like that Will Smith movie I robot where everybody had a robot in their place. Not sure how close we are to that.

[00:19:20] And the movie was us robotics I was like didn't they make modems. So, so just curious on like this whole AI topic, like it's still really new like we're in the. I call it the wild wild west of this whole thing right.

[00:19:37] So I'm curious open question all of you right like realistically next three years that's like a reachable timeframe. Right, like, how far do you really see this going. I mean, from a technology standpoint from an MSP standpoint like is this, you know, like, are we talking about something

[00:19:54] that doesn't even exist.

[00:19:56] Scott's presentation, because we wanted to do also like a little bit of a future gloves right and by no means am I technical so I'll turn it over to you guys to actually answer that question but Scott's presentation is interesting because what it does mean we're, we're, we are technology,

[00:20:10] right, and we have to continue to find ways in which the MSP needs to evolve their stacks right and I think Scott's presentation was a lot of obviously focus around AI, a lot of it led to robots.

[00:20:22] And, you know, his synopsis is that this technology and the need for this type of technology is growing so quickly that it'll be here before we even know it more so than than ever before.

[00:20:35] Yes, you can Hollywood doomsday with all these you know the robots are going to take over. And, you know, stick us in our homes because we can't take care of ourselves kind of thing but who knows I doubt it, but who knows but where are the opportunities lie and his presentation

[00:20:49] is broken down in three parts which is, you know, what does the near term look like what does midterm look like and what is long term look like all for the MSP and how does the MSP fit into where AI is going and what options are available so that we can all at least think about these

[00:21:03] things as time goes on but I'd be curious to your opinions on. So, AI is it relates to automation. I think AI is something that I think a lot about AI will continue to advance and advanced rapidly. But think of AI outside outside of the tech world.

[00:21:27] Think of it in, like, physical security like standing in front of a building. All of these things have something in common which is it doesn't matter how advanced AI is unless you give it a machine to be in, they can't do these physical tasks.

[00:21:51] And then you relate that back to automation. It doesn't matter how advanced or generative the AI is, unless you give it a machine to be in the AI can automate your tasks.

[00:22:06] Right. So, AI is not a message queuing system AI is not a multi tenancy system it's not an integration machine it's a decision making tool. Right. And so I see it, expanding both physically through robots was discussed but also software wise via robots as well.

[00:22:34] So, that's interesting. You know, I'm going to go on to a category here that you know, probably is only being discussed now, right.

[00:22:44] The information that gets fed into the chat GPT and open a eyes and the Microsoft co pilots and all this stuff right like, you know, like there's a security privacy like, where is my data go after I put it into the engine type question that comes up more frequently

[00:23:02] I mean like, I know everybody's probably doing these you know cybersecurity training sessions because it's like pretty common now for compliances and I actually just did one for my company the other day and it's like, hey, the person instead of KFC was MFC right they just changed

[00:23:16] the letter. No, they put the secret recipe in and like all of a sudden everybody had the secret recipe because they asked the same engine what they're what a good recipe for fried chicken was and then all of a sudden the recipe was out there like that's not really crazy

[00:23:28] Like, what happens to the information once it gets processed by the system. You know how much of a concern is that right, I know that we're in a day and age where you're opting in right every time you log into a Facebook or an Instagram or whatever right they're like hey by the way

[00:23:42] we're processing your data I think like, hopefully you read it nobody does, definitely not when they open up their Apple devices they just say yes but um, how much of a concern is that from is my data.

[00:23:54] Like now being shared with everybody on my almost unknowing. There's, you know, a contractual in user licensing agreement that should state what's going to happen with your data and regardless of what that says there should be concern, but I'll make you think about it a little bit differently.

[00:24:19] So back in 2010 timeframe when sass was really starting to take off.

[00:24:30] I worked in financial services, and the banks, big banks, Sam we're never going to go to the cloud. Too risky too insecure. We're going to keep everything on prem cloud is for those small joke banks out there.

[00:24:47] And fast forward to today, and nearly 100% of these large banks are now primarily in the cloud, except for all this as 400 that still exists. But nothing has changed.

[00:25:03] There's the security in the cloud is the same as it was in 2010, nothing's changed so why did these banks make the decision well, the value the benefit started to far out you know I'll pace the risk.

[00:25:21] And right now, there's a, when it comes to AI and your data.

[00:25:26] The benefit and the risk it might lean more towards risk than benefit or it might be right on par with benefit. But in the future if they find a way to make it so you get heaps and heaps of value at AI.

[00:25:45] And then all of a sudden no one's going to be asking the question about where is my data. Yeah, just like the banks today. They don't know where their data is in the cloud it's somewhere in AWS and Microsoft's data center somewhere.

[00:25:59] It's a similar like if you think about when the cloud adoption started coming in hot topic, how secure is it obviously if it's AWS or Microsoft it must be over secure.

[00:26:08] Find out it's not, we still need to keep an eye on everything, but it's the same conversation people are having about the cloud. 15 years ago, it's going to be the same conversation we have with AI but you can't stop progress that's

[00:26:18] the thing. So where the where the MSP comes in is what's the value out of the MSP in things like security management all those types to make sure that these things are being checked and balanced as opposed to end users trying to figure it out on their own, especially in the SMB space.

[00:26:34] Controversial topic though I'd be curious as to what you think because there's a couple of MSPs that have mentioned this, where you think about what the cloud was originally supposed to do for the managed services channel it was supposed to improve security was supposed to

[00:26:46] improve margins it was supposed to be easier faster and create lots of avenues for new revenue streams. Definitely we've seen some of that.

[00:26:54] But now they're starting to discover that maybe margins aren't as high as they used to be. So there's also this talk about maybe in the S part of the SMB market maybe on frame is a better solution because it's cheaper, more secure in some people's minds.

[00:27:09] So there are some people that are thinking maybe we need to retract a little bit. I mean my feeling is, I could argue both sides. I could argue that on frames more secure and I could argue that cloud is more secure.

[00:27:26] And then secure and price don't necessarily go hand in hand. You can pay more for an insecure application of a product or less for a more secure product. I would say that some of the eroding margins on SaaS is probably pricing increasing on the SaaS side.

[00:27:52] You would think that due to SaaS commoditization the pricing would actually be going down but that's not what I'm saying. And there's such a demand for it, why reduce the price.

[00:28:08] And then as far as continuing to erode margins, MSPs have professional services practices that used to make money off of hardware refreshes like the servers in the closet and the software that ran the line of business apps.

[00:28:30] And now they're not able to resell servers because they're on the cloud and the line of business apps are in the cloud and that would also erode margins due to cloud usage. You see that all the time with the stuff. We've seen that with that.

[00:28:48] You were at a backup company for a minute or two, right? So you still have that involved. Even in our personal lives everyone thought when we had services like Hulu TV and YouTube TV and all these things pop up, did we really think that the guys make it all that way?

[00:29:08] And now I'm sure you guys see it in your own lives. How many streaming services do you have to have because you want to watch one show here, one show here and all this stuff?

[00:29:20] And now all of a sudden it's like that cable building seemed huge. And I was like, hey, maybe it's not that bad anymore, right? I mean they hit you up for everything where they're walling off content.

[00:29:32] And I think that's the same thing with these guys is they've gotten such, everyone's gotten addicted to it that I think you're probably right. It probably should be cheaper. But they're like, hey, what are they going to do?

[00:29:43] Now they're bungling a lot of these services together. And we'll talk about that in a second. And so when you add it all together, YouTube TV, Hulu, Disney+, Netflix, Paramount+, Prime Video, Apple TV, it really does add up to more than it used to as just a cable build with all the premium channels for sure.

[00:30:06] But I don't know if you've done, I actually was thinking about this the other day because I remember back in the day I was actually saying there is no freaking way I'm ever going to pay for a few TV like if you had cable yet, a thousand channels, it was just all there.

[00:30:18] And if you fast forward today, it's just such commonplace. But you know the expectation of quality is also there, right?

[00:30:24] That's no longer if you take a look at the shows we used to watch or some of the crap that regular networks are putting out there. It's length versus the quality that you're getting on these a lot of the services.

[00:30:36] I still think A Team Knight Rider and Airwolf are still there. That was my jam. Welcome Cynthia from Cyber QP to the show. This is great gizmo. I don't have to do anything. It just works.

[00:30:52] Talking about one topic, I'm not going to put names but we're going to talk about it. Not too long ago we heard about, hey you know the low price all inclusive, you know,

[00:31:04] beach resort? No, SaaS pricing right? We're talking about some of this like SaaS pricing going up versus going down and the bundling conversation. Right? So we heard you know a pretty big vendor in the sandbox come out and say hey, you know we've we followed a Microsoft mechanism right?

[00:31:20] And we've now created a low cost skew right and threw a bunch of stuff in. I haven't really looked into it personally myself but like that's one example where it went the other way right?

[00:31:31] Where I mean there's software licensing which does tend to go down over time but compute and storage in the cloud has not necessarily gotten the same direction. So do you think that's a disruption move and does that change the path for the rest of the industry?

[00:31:56] It could be a disruption move. If your products are targeted by that bundle. And then the difficult is the disruption only really works if you know the value of those products in the bundle is there.

[00:32:20] Right. So do products in SaaS land lose value over time? Is it possible? I think the innovate, continue to innovate. Yeah, that style would be the key right? Is innovation features have to continually improve.

[00:32:35] That's the only way that you can kind of maintain a price otherwise you know yes they're going to get cheaper if they're aging out and becoming less and less relevant.

[00:32:43] Okay. And if they're not putting that money into development or is it sort of like your cell phone plan was a really good deal for those first few years but then you can't quite find a good price unless you go to another carrier.

[00:32:56] So, you know, is it going to be like my internet service and I have to continually change when I get mad and someone else has a better deal.

[00:33:06] Hmm. Yeah, you see, George, we still see these newer vendors popping up. Yeah, all the time getting traction in the RMM space yeah we are one of our sponsors hello.

[00:33:19] We see them everywhere now. Right. They are everywhere you know we see people talking about I hear people talking about positively so if you look at something like that, you know you'd say well, hey nobody's going to change those things you just wouldn't right it's too much.

[00:33:33] I think, you know, your point like they get you locked in. Maybe it's not as great. And then if you're not key was innovative right if you don't continue to innovate something else potentially come in.

[00:33:47] So what about the hidden cost of always moving these technologies around i mean there's time and labor costs that always get lost in this calculation.

[00:33:58] There's, there's that there's always the piece and then we'll use the halo as an example here where I think part of the appeal of halo isn't just that it's kind of a new shiny object I mean obviously they've been doing this for a lot of years just relatively new to the

[00:34:11] MSP space but what they figured out is a more automated way to do that transition. Something that was immensely manual to the point where yeah it didn't make sense, no matter how upset you were no matter how much you hated the tech you add.

[00:34:24] That didn't make sense because the lifting shift to go to new stuff so that piece of making it easy for people to transition. It sounds like they've got that dialed in at least that's what I mean that's a great marketing message but is it really easy.

[00:34:38] Well nothing's easy.

[00:34:40] Even if it's not completely accurate. What I think it does is it pushes the incumbent to have to do more and be more creative, even if that's price or something else whereas I think to Rob's point you know a lot of people would go tire kicking, let's say to replace

[00:35:00] the CDR, but you knew the lift was too much. Right. Right it just wasn't worth it. So, I think some people kind of looked at that like yeah you know they're never going to move. And I think we're seeing more that people are moving.

[00:35:15] There is something to though, like, if I look at your two organizations cyber QP rules. There's something to being also getting involved with an organization or attack that early, because they can have some more more influence over your roadmap or how you're going about

[00:35:32] your channel your partner program, then then a legacy provider so there's also some distinct advantages to also getting an early imagine if you're, you know connect wise partner number 10 like there's, there's some cloud that goes along and chances are they have their fingerprints

[00:35:47] over a lot of the tactic connect was was creating at the time. Yes, you know it's now 1520 years later and it's a little less more being able to get them to shift to do something or develop something or change something so you know there is something about

[00:36:01] also getting involved new time early. Yeah, I'll tell you one of the things and I'll tell you the first week I started. I got invited to you know some regular meetings and I get invited to this open mic. And I said yeah what the heck so much like.

[00:36:16] Yeah, we have you know we have all these partners they come on and we discuss like what we're doing let them share things. It's okay so when you know like the gate to questions people ask is like, Oh no it's open mic.

[00:36:29] And so it means he goes I know he gets. It is a free for all, so they could ask anything they want, they could do anything, and we're up to what 200. So every week, and to your point is, these are the guys are in it every day.

[00:36:43] So we probably spend 10 minutes on our housekeeping stuff. And they, it's their meeting. Yeah, like they asked whatever they want a share stuff so people get to see anything and just being on the revenue side I was like well this sounds like a bad idea. Yeah, right.

[00:36:59] Just like people because you know as we know most MSP aren't shy with giving you their opinion, but it's worked out greatly everyone's real respectful. Yeah, they share and then I have a thing that I think that we do is a bit unique I've never had this.

[00:37:15] We're leveraging discord. The gaming server. Well, that's my kids I have this clear my son's 22 he's like, Why would you have this court on your phone and like oh we use it market like there's no way you use it.

[00:37:30] But the fact that, like you're communicating the way you know it's, it's like we always talk about even like some of the stuff Jane McBain said about how they've changed how they bought.

[00:37:40] Yeah, right, like it's not. They've made this decision by the time you talk to them they've made the same because they, they, you know, younger people or at least the way things have gone, they do things differently than we would have done 10 years ago.

[00:37:53] But even at this point is something that these, they're in this all the time.

[00:37:57] Right so why not go to them where they live, and we've seen some great success on that. Well, must be a lot of content being created in order for people to buy you know they're going to buy before, well, yeah, before they go check out the cart a lot right so they think

[00:38:12] or so they think it's the whole Amazon approach.

[00:38:17] I actually did this. I did this, no no no I ran news or use. I totally wanted to give this a try right because and it's completely foreign to us because you never want to buy a car they haven't tested, but I use car.

[00:38:30] I have an old truck, beautiful truck that I actually sold on Carvana and then purchased a new one. A new Bronco, and literally did not talk to a single human being through changing over the licensing the ownership, did not talk to anybody every insurance everything was done virtually.

[00:38:50] Yes, as a older person I'm like, this is all going to go sideways real soon. The only person I saw was the guy that brought the car the new car dropped it off and new new or new used new used 23, but brought the new car.

[00:39:05] He said give it a test drive if you like it it's yours if not I'll take it back and then he loaded up my truck and feels gone.

[00:39:13] I don't like that you have seven days to be able to turn around and say I don't like swap it out.

[00:39:21] Really push that seven day thing, a little bit more to be interested in 30. It's good to know though, like, yeah, this car breaks down on day two. Yeah, but I don't feel like they market that I forced myself to go that route because like you said, we have like we have to start thinking

[00:39:39] about it because there's going to be a point where I mean think about like our grandparents, they're not on the internet, you don't even want to give them access to the internet, much less Facebook or Instagram. Online.

[00:39:54] So there's gonna be a point where we are those people in the younger generation so we also need to continue to think about these things so I actually did it and to be honest it was a really good experience I'm quite pleased with it.

[00:40:04] Would you do it again. Yes. Yeah.

[00:40:07] The balls are going away right so everyone that you didn't like it go in I got to touch it I got to feel it like those experiences are going to be gone. Well, Amazon has a try before you buy right so I still I still like there's a little bit, and we'll talk about

[00:40:23] brand in a second we'll probably close with the community topic but

[00:40:29] do you trust the thing that you're buying like the company that you're buying from the person that you're buying from like you wouldn't have, like, if it went sideways you'll figure it out but like you probably saw a lot of commercials and a lot of branding around

[00:40:41] before you said, I'm going to give this a try.

[00:40:44] So I think there's a, you know, how much do you need to do in order for somebody say, yeah they look like a reputable, you know, like they don't look like they're, you know, you know, fly by night side of the road, you know, corner type thing, you know, I'm willing to at least

[00:40:57] give it a try right if there's a little bit of that and anything that you're buying out there was your CPU was about to say was the try before you buy.

[00:41:06] Yeah, I'm on Amazon right so to your point. I want to touch it I want to feel it I want to make sure it looks good maybe I wait or maybe something else going on. I can get a whole pile of clothes from Amazon that I have not purchased at try them all on as long

[00:41:20] as I send them back and the amount of time that they gave me. I only have to keep what I and there's no styling fee or anything like that you might see with some of these other services so but but you were willing to try that with Amazon because you know the

[00:41:32] same Amazon. With a different name. Now I've done it with like stitch fix or wantable or something like that but I am paying a styling be there. Okay, so like, but if I buy everything that I don't have to buy.

[00:41:45] I think that's the key right and it's the same with Carvana, like the fact that I had this camera versus seven or 30 day return policy like, and, and the other part of it too that a lot of these services do you gotta make it super easy.

[00:41:57] Yeah, if you like, I've done the same I've returned stuff on Amazon to make it super easy no questions. So somehow the cat made it into the box that went back to Amazon. You hear that sort of. Then all of a sudden there was a warehouse cat.

[00:42:10] One thing that back on the package sas thing one thing that I heard at that show where it was announced that I thought was really interesting was a few MSP is that said you know I didn't think that I would have really considered that option.

[00:42:25] But I'm looking for an exit in about three to four years and what that pricing can do to my bottom line might be worth me making a switch.

[00:42:35] There is an argument though that a couple of MSP's have made saying that they can get that same pricing if they just talk to their vendors, or if you actually take a look at it it's, it's not necessarily that good and then there's like, you have to dig in through

[00:42:51] the turn of the 100% but it is that it was interesting to hear people that I mean even a day before would have been like, absolutely not and never would have and then they're like, well, let's think about my business my bottom line and my goals for my business and my family.

[00:43:05] Maybe that is something worth looking into. But the damage that does when you have, let's say a point vendor that maybe only has a couple of offerings. If they do have to basically kill their margins a bit to win that deal.

[00:43:23] You know, if you have a catalog, you kind of like, right, no big deal they're gonna. Now I'm really going to make it hurt for them. Right, we're going to change.

[00:43:32] Now what the price looks like and I think that you were talking about that like that's where it could be pretty ugly because they just want to get yet it's like the reason why we all go crazy.

[00:43:42] That we could get if you switch providers you get a better deal than the guy that you were with for 15 years. Right, they're not giving you that.

[00:43:55] So let me just ask this question point blank we're all on this side right the vendor side of the train tracks. You know, in one way you are too right and just help that.

[00:44:07] Do you see MSP selling their services site on scene click to buy e commerce like that I feel like that's a little bit hard to do.

[00:44:17] I think at this particular moment, I think it's even hard for us to fathom that. But at some point, I mean can we see commoditization of that I remember we're talking about tools and it's like what Aaron mentioned with the professional services that's

[00:44:31] the that's where the MSP is going to make their money. It's the services that they wrap around all tools, God, the you know these tool discounts and bundling and and just total price discounting.

[00:44:45] This is the tool. Ultimately it's, it's going to be the service for the revenue is anyway so so you're asking if MSP is going to be able to imagine going to George msp.com toggle couple buttons put your credit card in Ben, you're on now you bought so we

[00:44:59] created, and we went to a with it last week at beyond storefronts right there the MSP is can set up their own storefronts because there is this automation piece to what people are buying.

[00:45:10] That being said, what they are buying our tools right the professional services aspect of it sure. Are they going to opt in, you know, there's, there's something to it which is why we created this work runs in the first place so that people think that they're

[00:45:22] doing their own research they're doing their own kind of buying and then buying a package along with it that it would be the services. So you know we're making some bets that we can see that happening but I think, I think it's a journey I don't think it's something

[00:45:34] it's a journey it seems a lot more education. Right, so like end users MSP clients really understanding more of what they need more the more that we think it can happen is probably more. Very like contrary and go the opposite direction.

[00:45:54] But, and like you think okay could it happen. Well, if everything. The MSP is reselling and deploying software wise is sad. Yeah. Right, like, cool. But like go on and hit an IT company what because you saw a super full up the customers are also mature as well.

[00:46:25] After the customer has gone through six or a dozen MSP so you know exactly what's true. That's fair. That's true. There won't be educating them why they needed MSP it'll be educating them how you're different. Yeah, which MSP.

[00:46:43] The other thing is that if it's something that you're off in month to month they just may not care. Yeah, I'll give it a go because it's going to get on them to do all the work to support me.

[00:46:55] And if you don't like it return it with your cat. Right. Better better deal than the size of contract. Interesting. Let's let's let's use their. I'm, I know there's some companies like electric.

[00:47:10] Do that, but I just like, I would be very scared as an MSP me just putting that hat on it was like, I have no idea what you have where you're coming from. What happens if you signed up.

[00:47:19] I have 50 computers, you know employees I sign up for 50 employees and you're running still running Windows XP, and I got to like the enemy like that's bit of jump to get you to okay.

[00:47:31] What if part of that automated process is some type of scan. Right, so you have the data to be able to say, or it's just it's a matrix to say here's an estimated price but we're gonna have another conversation.

[00:47:42] We're thinking like 40 and 50 year olds, we're not thinking like 20 year olds. Yeah, right. Well I think the next generation 25% of the workforce. I think the next generation 25% of the workforce.

[00:47:55] Okay, that's good to know like I'll throw this wrinkle out there. They're not here, but a cork right another another cool startup company and I don't think they're more than a couple years old.

[00:48:05] So like if you don't have certain criteria either you won't be offered coverage, or the scan will tell you how much your premium is based on how many things are that they need you to have her in place like taking a physical right.

[00:48:25] I think the private example again like when I posted my truck as a trade and they ask you a whole bunch of questions about the truck sure rusted damage those kinds sure.

[00:48:34] And then it does take them about 24 hours before they come back and say we think your car is worth this, or we're willing to pay you that.

[00:48:41] So, so I wonder if you know you guys who are building things I wonder if there's a way to put that type of, you know, automation or scanning or that could be the wrinkle that you know would help move that we collectively just came up with this idea

[00:48:58] this is all of our businesses pattern. Well it's recorded so we're good. I'm just, hey, like, I don't like, I mean just spitballing here right but like this is the missing piece right to like cross check the, I have no idea what I'm walking into right.

[00:49:16] Yeah. You know what his first laws right it's you know, you can't automate a process that doesn't exist right so we create the process we'd be ready to do it by hand first.

[00:49:28] I mean the processes of evaluating what you're in customer has then determine what they need in order to get where they're going that's not me that's out there right we can all debate it but generally speaking there is a blueprint for this.

[00:49:39] So think about that as we're in the back room tinkering. All right, let's talk about community real quick.

[00:49:44] At the end of this but you know we heard a lot last week at beyond about hey you know like people going to click and buy and sight and seeing they're not going to talk to anyone it's all online no people carvana the Amazon right cell phone company.

[00:49:58] There's a very different vibe in the sandbox, when it comes to the conversation and community right and quite frankly, you know I've been saying for my entire journey I wish I had found the sandbox sooner, because I was learning things, the

[00:50:11] absolute hardest way by failing first in order to figure out what worked or not rather than learning from the people around me. So how much of that, in your opinion moving forward into the future. Is that still important. And is that still part of the puzzle.

[00:50:26] So for the past 1012 years or so. All the startups have really focused on this product like growth model, and to some degree, still seems like a hot model. But at least every we're following a community like growth model, not a product like growth model, and it's been awesome.

[00:50:55] And it is much harder to do than product like growth. To, because people think I'll just stand up a slack server I'll just stand up at this court server, and suddenly now I have community. Community.

[00:51:16] I'll do a monthly call with, you know my advisor MSP's and now I have a community. Community is much more difficult than that. It is a. You're creating a family.

[00:51:34] And it's not just the bond in the community between the MSP and the vendor. It's the bond between the MSP's and the each other. And it's almost impossible to do it. And so, not a lot of companies want to put that effort in.

[00:51:58] And what's going to happen is there is going to be a leader in every segment, and the MSP space that's brought in the community.

[00:52:11] Right, you're going to have an arm and leader that as the community behind it, you're gonna have a PSA leader, an automation platform leader distributor leader all that have adopted the community and every newcomer. Is going to have to create that community to. Wow.

[00:52:35] It goes back to, you know, we still have to think about the human element of everything that we do, and the transact that we've got people like to do business with people right and as good as your technology is if if you're an asshole people don't want to do business with

[00:52:50] I mean it did the same thing right. So, you know, it's a, you can be the cheapest on the market you can have the best tech on the market but a lot of times it also comes back to your experience with them.

[00:53:01] And do they answer their phones Do they care about you do they put on events such as this and pull everybody together for that peer to peer connection that they create those vehicles to do it.

[00:53:12] I don't think it did you mentioned that it's hard I don't think it's hard I just don't think a lot of people put enough effort into it, because it is something that it's an investment.

[00:53:21] It is an investment I mean, putting on your event now that cost money is hard right of course it is, but you'll bear fruit from this as a result you'll buy you up goodwill you'll then the next year that you do this it'll double the size right that kind of thing so

[00:53:36] it is, you know, I've built three, arguably, some of the best communities in this space and it is hard but it's it's such a necessary piece but if you really care about this community.

[00:53:49] It's really not that difficult really isn't. But there are a lot of stuff you know you're a great example of this I've known you for years. You're on the plains, you're doing enhancements with people, you're meeting with them, you're genuine.

[00:54:02] You're on Facebook responding to people. Yeah, you know so like, you're right, it's, it's almost like a blocking and tackling approach. But a lot of people just look at it like yeah we're not going to go do that. Yeah, you know it's just, it's just that work.

[00:54:19] You know, he's out of a lot of events. Yeah, we can argue that he's the CEO. Right. You know he's the guy that came come up with this invention right of what to go do.

[00:54:31] But you know people want to see it. Yeah, same thing with you there right. You know we're honored that you came here, we know that people want to see it. They know these events. I'll tell you what to say.

[00:54:46] We're just going to sell more through your back day, even better. I learned this a long time ago actually back level platforms days and old RMM.

[00:54:57] We had terrible tech for six months and then great tech for six months but the thing is it got to the point where we broke it so much that our partners turned to us and said, you know, I can't do business with you anymore.

[00:55:07] But we had such a phenomenal team and great tech support that when people left us, they had to leave us because we just technically were not giving them enough tech, but we had a lot of runway.

[00:55:19] And it's it was this amazing thing that when people left us they called to apologize that I'm sorry you're killing my business I have to leave. And it's not like there wasn't anger or anything. It's like I don't want to go but you guys just aren't good enough.

[00:55:33] I mean that's when all of a sudden, I at least myself this problem about 12 years ago came to the conclusion of. Yeah, we can if we can figure out good tech, and by the way, I will vouch all day long for having a CEO that is technically

[00:55:46] I think that if the leader of these organizations and you know I experienced this was awesome recorded data we're going to experience this now with tax aid and Scott Jason being technically inclined.

[00:55:56] Yeah, as the leader, they're focused on the right things I think it makes our job is that and sales ways, ways. Absolutely.

[00:56:06] And the other part of community that I would want to touch on that they haven't touched on is how you treat your people internally. Right, so like this week right like seeing all of all those people and how they interact with each other, and the shared

[00:56:19] experience that they're having right is only going to make your internal community better. And now when they call in and they have to talk to someone or if someone they haven't been before you're building on all of that and when your internal community is good

[00:56:31] that shines through as well right and so then even if there's hiccups with tech or whatever, you know that the people that you're dealing with are happy where they're at they're well taken care of and so they're going to turn around and be good to you too which helps foster

[00:56:44] community even if that's not someone that they see on the road. So it all like builds into each other. I love the idea that you guys are doing your first user conference line guards got theirs coming up in a couple months cyber QP is doing one this year.

[00:56:59] Yeah, we had one last year in July. I think it's just awesome like that we're still maintaining going back to your comment that how important the community pieces so yeah, I think it's very cool to see in our space. Think of it like you build social media software.

[00:57:16] And then you have to get people to use it. I would argue building the software is easier than building the community around. Yeah, but that's because you're technical. You never build software. Get a group of 20 people together. Post you get 2000 people show.

[00:57:39] Easy, but I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag. Yeah.

[00:57:44] I think that's where the, you know, for us what we've seen to your point it's always been tough to get the people that are, you know, customer facing but our customer support is them understanding like, hey, this is what these people care about.

[00:58:01] And that's important to the business you can't just get the numbers don't always add up to it right because I was viewed as you know you do the wrong thing by one.

[00:58:13] And they could touch 10,000 other MSP, but there is a lot of truth to that. I mean, and now with the internet. I mean people can get it. I need to bring up the reddit so like, so where we go to watch the park.

[00:58:26] It's the best thing and worst thing that I found a very happy corner of it.

[00:58:31] Do you want to share that I would love to be all are going to make fun of me but I'm prepared for it. Okay, what is it Animal Crossing. They're the nicest people in the world that play Animal Crossing.

[00:58:42] It's a game it's like on a Nintendo Wii game and it's just you're like, you're building a community that is all you're doing but it's like little animals and flowers and like they are the nicest happiest people can I create a friendly community of TSA security. Sure.

[00:59:02] Community is not going to have no, not especially when it comes to definitely be to trolls. I'm going to find the dark side of Animal Crossing I'm sure there is. There was there. Yeah, there was like one bad egg but part of us.

[00:59:21] So, actually, happy actually Rob is in one of these. You know what like these people are just like, up late eating chips and like building a house that's like really fun still, well, Animal Crossing aside there's still a lot of learning on bread as much as no fair.

[00:59:43] But I also feel like there's just a lot of a little bit of a negative tilt sometimes, and like unnecessarily so but that's just my gotta find the happy. I'm happy to take everything.

[00:59:58] I, I, that is, that is something I try to practice that as a guy from, you know, Philly area, it's, it's against the nature of

[01:00:09] George always takes the higher is that what you just said, I said I tried to go tried to work after you're saying it doesn't come back. That's totally fair. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:00:23] So we're already at the hour a little bit over, I really appreciate you got like, I really, by the way, this is great like this is the kind of conversations we have at the bar and hallway like these are the best kind of conversations right like

[01:00:34] a little bit informal and like cool things can come out of it.

[01:00:37] So I really appreciate you guys, obviously inviting us to do this. This, I think, you know, something yet but in my opinion from what things are very successful first event guys so I just want to congratulate you ahead of time.

[01:00:49] I'm not the first person but appreciate it, you know, good job on getting everybody to come out here and even though it's a little little warm here in Tampa, and they're conditioning cranking in this place.

[01:01:00] It is, it is looks like it's being very well better very well received. And for that matter, I know that we're, you said hey we sprinted to get to June right like there's still six more months and by the way this isn't actually formally conferences.

[01:01:14] Right. Well, I've been pretty much every month these days. Yeah, right but like September October November is historically like machine gun right and you know the conferences that stack up in that, you know, in that realm so you know I know you guys are

[01:01:28] on the road, everybody at this table does a lot of a lot of FaceTime so I'm looking forward to running into you guys. Obviously not just completing this event but in the future, and I'm excited for the back end of this year. I really am.

[01:01:41] Thanks for doing this for everybody that was listening to this or maybe watch it live this whole session was recorded, like we do them all. We're going to post them online at mspnishive.com under sessions on YouTube and the pod captures and all that stuff

[01:01:55] so stay back with us. We'll try and do this more often right because this is actually pretty fun, and we'll catch up with everybody later thanks guys for watching.