Mike Psenka of Moovila

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition of the MSP Initiative MSP talk

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna get through the housekeeping like we normally do at the beginning of all of these sessions and then you know

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Getting some good stuff. So buckle up

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: MSP initiative comm you will see sessions as a tab on their MSP initiative comm

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Which take you to our podcast or YouTube page and just a listing of every single one of these sessions like the one we're recording right now

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So you want to go backwards like share subscribe forward download all here for you in whatever format feels comfortable

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't watch and drive at the same time. Trust me not a good idea

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for everyone that came out to our second MSP community minds of the year

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We had one in Nashville earlier this year, then we just finished up MSP community minds last week in Denver. Wow. Wow

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that was awesome. Thank you to all of our panelists

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: These are MSPs that took time to come out of their businesses and talk to us about

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Many things and then our workshop holders who also taught us on many things two hours at a time

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, thank you to all the co-sponsoring vendors that made this happen. We appreciate you

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We will be planning future MSP community minds into 2025 stay tuned early days

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But we want to keep the format going we like it. I think you like it too

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for everyone that joined us

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But then that you know brings us to what were probably better known for our MSP community block parties

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: To which are four not one not two four left for the rest of the year. Here we go

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Pax a beyond in Germany, right? If you're headed to Berlin

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we want to see you so on October 14th, which is the second night of

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: the conference

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna bust everybody over to a cool beer themed venue

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So going along the theme of October fest in Germany, you will love this

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely register ahead of time can't wait to see you in Germany if you're headed there our first one there too

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of exciting then we turn around then we head to Miami

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you had to do Datto con in Miami good news for you

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even have to leave the hotel where the conference is happening. We're on property

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: On October 29th second night of the event at 9 30

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We will be at the famous live nightclub on South Beach at the fountain blue again register ahead of time

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Did we mention that all of these are absolutely free for MSPs to join us at yet?

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They are so definitely check this out then we go to Orlando the big IT nation connect

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: In Florida, this would be November 6th like it is the first night of IT nation every year for the last eight years

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: After the welcome reception and expo booth time jump on a bus head down the street exactly one mile down the road and

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We will be bringing you for the first time

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Flow rider as our entertainment for this year's block party. That's right. You've heard them on the radio. You see them on MTV

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You will have a live concert absolutely free on us and everyone else who's goes bothering

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Come out enjoy yourself. This is for you the community

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: All you got to do is register ahead of time or you got to get stuff registering at the door

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly we turn around because you know

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We love airplanes here at MSP initiative and we are headed down to Sydney for the second time this year for Datto con

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Sydney so on November 12th

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna make a right out of the hotel venue walk down the boardwalk

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And we will be doing a block party for you guys down under second time this year as we bring our special flavor of party to you

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure to register as well for Datto con Sydney. They are all there at MSP initiative calm under community block parties

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Again doesn't cost you anything other than registering

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Food beverage entertainment it's all covered so come down and enjoy yourself

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We have some community offers

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you see any deals on there that you might be able to take advantage of feel free to do so and our industry

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Calendar goes all the way until the end of the year

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We are officially in the time of the year called the gauntlet

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we like to call it where all of these events are happening in like a 90-day window

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you don't want to be home, you surely can be at a

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Industry event and not home. So

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: There is all the housekeeping. I got it all done in six minutes

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Now seven which is a minute ahead of time. So there it all is MSP initiative

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Com so for the first time ever we are bringing a new guest onto the podcast Mike from

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Move villa. How you doing today, Mike?

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Good. How are you? How you doing George? I got a question

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you attending all of those you're gonna have some serious frequent flyer miles if you're um

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're bouncing to all of those, you know, we you know, we we race certain people in the industry

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know to figure out who gets the most airline miles at the end of the year

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Funny enough my colleague, uh alec

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually beats me anyway, but then we we race different people from different parts of the community at different companies

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I probably will be at all of those

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, definitely frequent flyer miles. Although Mike once you get to know me a little bit better, you'll know that

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh chick filet points are higher in my book than the

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing for whatever

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Just not on sunday. Yeah

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Just not on which which as a guy who travels through airports on sunday kind of kicks you in the

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Like

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're fake. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I'm I'm all down for the uh

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you see, you know, spicy chicken sandwich is like in my opinion the best thing on their menu

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I've been doing the 30 count grilled nuggets

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh for for some time now is my go-to. So if you're on the try and eat better kick

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that that is the thing not breaded nuggets grilled nuggets chick filet 30 count

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing it doesn't show up on the menu, but it is there if you ask for it

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: They would give it to you 30 count you said 30 count. Yeah, there's a lot of grams of protein in that

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's good for working out I guess. Yeah. Hey, listen

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean as far as grilled chicken goes it's pretty tasty and like you can still do the sauces right because you know

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the chick filet sauces, you know a little bit, you know crazy

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know some people like to like mix them around and you know create their own recipes, but uh, like I said

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Easy for when you're on the go too, right? So I digress

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know for you know every time we bring somebody new onto the onto the podcast here, Mikey

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We usually like to just talk about you for a second and like your background your journey into it technology land

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we can like turn into like all right now

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know present day you're at you're at move villa and we can learn a little bit about that too

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll see how the conversation goes

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I can go way way back machine, uh, you know born and raised in Chicago

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately in pain bears fan and once again yet another season where it looks like they're going to be struggling again

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But uh, I got my start in tech. Oh god now

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: 33 years ago

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: started out working in

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: IT consulting in price water houses before they even merged and became pwc

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then after that I'd spun up my first business

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: um focusing on

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Financial analytics for medical schools and medical universities and at the same time

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually started an msp that served

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: um medical universities

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And businesses and this is excuse me. This is before there was such a thing as rmm before there was such a thing as a ps

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is honestly this was before the really the web was anything in a big deal

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: This is mid 90s, right? So this was in the land of break fix

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and so I understood sort of the frustration in hell associated with you know managing in that environment

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But but had another business that the the tech side of the business and the software side of the business grew and expanded

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Um on an analytics front and we sort of grew we had a business intelligence and analytics company and that sort of took off

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We wound down the um

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's beside of the business because I got pulled back into these medical schools and universities

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They they sort of brought that back in house

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: um

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And then as I said this analytics platform sort of took off grew

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: sold that business in 2011 to equifax my cto and I

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Then spun this business out because

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: We realized

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You know there's a problem why?

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: In such an old mature market like project management

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Are people still surprised like why is this happening?

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Why are people confused that projects are still late or delayed?

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't happen with spreadsheets or accounting software

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Or you know word processors like it just doesn't happen. So something that's decades old

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Why does that happen and we discovered a couple of really interesting fascinating things and realized that kind of

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what drove the creation of this business

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_02]: 2016 kind of forward now

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Looking at project and work management like a programming language. So we sort of said, hey, you know, we really need to think about

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Work like a programming language and and projects should be manifest like that

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can debug it analyze it monitor it server side

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also integrate automation internet of things human beings

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: This is before the even the most recent AI push

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We got a big partnership with the heavy equipment manufacturer kamatsu

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably five years ago and they invested heavily into the platform because they want to automated construction management

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: They have automated bulldozers and excavators and they wanted to handle it from the software side

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: A couple of years ago, we had some folks from the msp side

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Come to us and say hey

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We're running into a lot of similar problems. We like what you guys are doing with this AI driven automation and project management

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Could you do this for us?

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they saw the platform but they said hey we

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But what's gotta be integrated it's gotta be integrated into the ps a

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise we can't do double entry. So we as a business made a decision

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, we've got this construction side of the business and we're also in finance manufacturing

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And we said there looked to be a lot of need and pain in the msp industry around

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Projects and that's sort of been kind of revealed in recent research

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we made the decision to you know build a first iteration with one of the large ps a players that worked really really well

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And so now we've got the second one online and the third

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know all the sort of major players that are out in space right now

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And the third will be coming online shortly. So obviously, you know having

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Connectwise and halo and auto tasks having those platforms bi directionally integrated is critical for

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The partners because they'll manage that a single sort of the truth, but we solved a really big problem which is

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Bad project data bad project dates and data is a big problem in the industry and it contaminates

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the business intelligence that you know these msp's depend on and I think that's probably a big reason why they came to us was

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: They were tired and unpleasant surprise

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Of hey, how did we not know this? How did this happen our customers angry? How did we miss this? So

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's sort of a that's a quick and dirty sort of history. I love the history. That's awesome

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna pick your brain in a couple things before we get into like what you're solving for

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So you actually

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Live through an early version of what we are seeing now just two or three revisions down the road, right?

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of msp's started selling

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they started a second business

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: On the software side. So a lot of good companies in the sandbox in it and msp land spawned from msp's who were like

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we just don't find it out there. I guess we should build it and then that turns into a product, right? And then

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, there's a lot of movement in our you know arena on you know

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: All of those companies starting to get kind of gobbled up into larger conversations, right?

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so as a person that has started and sold now a couple of businesses

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: What you know, what is your advice for people in msp land in terms of successfully starting and selling a company?

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that that's a big one. Maybe you have a couple of tips that come to the top of your mind

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But you lived it. I don't want to open up the textbook and go sit in the classroom and learn

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: All of things that you would walk away and say, you know had I known this the first or second time

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I would have done it differently

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so good question

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, I guess there are a couple of things that I would say

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Getting people who care about the problem that you're working on is a 10x multiplier

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Um for who you're competing against meaning

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You can have a product and you could in the same category as others and

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They could have literally 10 times as many people or 10 times as much money

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know 100 times in some cases and if you have a bright intelligent hardworking group

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The ability to care about like that care factor meaning

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think where care comes into play. I know this sounds subjective is your ability to throw away good work

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: To get to great work

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Can be a big difference maker to get a larger organization because these really big organizations george

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at technology

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was funny because even after we were required we saw this they look at technology like it's a and technology

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Developers supporters as fungible assets, you know, I mean fungible meaning hey four quarters or a dollar

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same thing deeply exchanged. They'll look at technology in many cases

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Those senior leaders that don't come from technology will say

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we have to develop a new feature or we need new functionality

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure seems like we could probably offshore this or near shore this at a much lower rate

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do that. Let's ship it off to them. Let's get the product team to get a list of specifications to do that and

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And they could do that and they produce a mediocre product because for certain

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Whoever that developer is

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Working for a contract agency offshore and near shore when they produce something good

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that's good

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's good, but but good will not

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Catch someone's attention. It has to be great. It has to be amazing

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, you start your business and you're up till two or three in the morning

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're god, it's not quite a that makes a big difference

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So don't don't don't underestimate the fact that getting people to care

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Really really matters and can make a massive difference

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: In the quality and of what you're delivering I subscribe to that

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have the funders of all of these companies are usually the person that's

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Falling asleep on the keyboard, right? Like another one's like burning weekends nights holidays all that stuff

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the problem and I don't know if you have a secret sauce to it. I've never found it

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But how do you find people who are willing to do more than just a another job, right?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: A nine to five. Hey, you know came in checked in checked out did what I had to do and

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know like to get those fanatical people in your company is not easy

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think probably and this was nevus is certainly not intentional but over the years

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Um when we would recruit people

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think more often than not I would say

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know you're gonna want to come here like like you if maybe, you know

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a and I would sort of and we would hit them with the hey

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a really intense place. We're trying to do a really really hard thing

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to compete against people have a hundred times as much money and a hundred times as many people and

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Now we've done this in the past and we've wanted it feels amazing when you do that when you can overcome and you go

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Holy shit, you know, we beat people who have a hundred times as many

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But that requires sacrifice intensity and caring and if you're looking for a job to kind of just punch the clock and

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Make some money and that's that's fine. I said we'd love to talk to you later

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe when we have larger scale or a process but right now

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Every dog on the sled and I'm a dog on the sled too. We all have to be pulling really hard. Otherwise

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no point. We're wasting our time

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that's just too intense for some people and so we get it if it's not

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And that ends up attracting a certain kind of person who wants to be relevant and we tell people we're like

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll be really really relevant. You'll be really really relevant

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And if we're not all really relevant then we die and we go away

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And just worry and that's a guy from as a guy from Philly sounds like a rocky story if I've ever heard one, you know, you're kind of

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Punching up right and you're going into the ring with the with the the predetermined big guy

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right and you and you you have a shot a puncher shot to maybe you know

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Shock them, you know and and disrupt and upset right and like I love that by the way

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I I breed that as a guy who was born and raised in this area, but

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You know no no offense statue and people come and look at it all the time, but that being said

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The idea behind it is there. So no that that's great. I mean

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know delivering that message at the very very beginning will surely turn people off that are interested in that for sure

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it does it does and we say look there's nowhere to hide like you won't be able to hide and if it's on the tech side

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I believe everybody, you know, if you look at a normalized distribution

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know to the right six sigma to the left six sigma and you get I think every human being has been given some

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Talents in some skills where they're really way better than everybody else

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure in the general population. It could be their ability to hit a small stick with a ball

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's coming very fast and we'll pay him 30 million bucks a year

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: it could be jumping or be running could be math could be programming analytics, but

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know trying to find people who can self-select and go hey, you know not saying egotistically but we are I'm really good at this

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And say but also telling them hey if you're not

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You know the other people on your team are and it's going to be a bad experience for you

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just going to be a bad experience if you're willing to work really hard and make up that gap

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You know like I said and there is something about you know in the beginning

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I caught a lot of slack from my staff because they're going you're scaring off good candidates

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but inevitably the really good ones would come back because

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: As a former co-worker a long time ago said in a joke and I'm not going to repeat the joke but

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Being relevant

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You know is probably the most important thing. I think in the human condition is we just want to be relevant

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to be relevant to our families

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to be relevant to friends significant others when we're relevant to work the community

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we feel like we're gonna matter and then someone cares about us mattering that can really motivate people to

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of deliver more and kind of engage more and that get that I mean that turns my crank

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That keeps me going to see people willing to do that so so

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a good here's a like a good follow-up thought to this whole thing

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: At what point did that change right like did you hit a certain size or was there a certain number of people in your company before like

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of got more

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know like outside of that core fanatical group into a little bit more of a normal environment

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You know so in the last business where we got up to a couple hundred people

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We were able to maintain that culture because we were so

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Religious and diligent about sort of that

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Core group when someone would come in and there was a I think was called

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the book was called the no asshole rule

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a book

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Long long time ago and and the one line that I remember from this that was important

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That I just tell my staff all the time is

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Assholes hire assholes so like you have to not get any assholes in your business because they breed it and if you're really

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Really diligent about this getting people who care about other people right because you having a compassionate workplace

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And making them understand

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, your family is the most important thing you're never going to be able to deliver consistent good work

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have support from your structure

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So we want you to support your your home structure or your family structure. That's the most important thing in the world to you

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We love your dedication you work

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But you have to kind of having that structure and having everyone understand what those priorities are

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But now we never got up to thousands of people so I can't tell you does it break down after that?

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't know. I don't know

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But I will tell you that the organization that we went into that required us

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The leader of that organization was managing thousands of people and a huge

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That that is on our board now and some and I respect

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You know a lot and it was a good lesson to me because that was always a question in my mind George was like

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it just seems like there's so many successful assholes out there and it just seems like that's a precursor

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So like do this and it kind of bummed me out and it sort of depressed me for a long time

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Until you know, we have been approached to get acquired by a bunch of companies

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of them we said no to because I went there is no way we're going to subject ourselves to those people

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like there's just no way we want to deal with that and

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know this organization came along and we met them the CEO the process and they were all so

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: ethically minded supportive and talking to the

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Massive number of people in the organization all really respected this leader the guys named Dan Adams

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And there were thousands of people and I went oh my god

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he was managing a division inside this company of thousands of people and he had managed other divisions and every one of those divisions just went

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know the culture of the organization was really really good. So I would say I think it is possible

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Now are you going to have that really intense working with thousands of people?

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably not, you know, I mean law of big numbers says, you know, that's unlikely

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: um, you know, I'm sure

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know some of the biggest name companies that we know and love today is super high tech and big that are large

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably have some dead wood, but um, I mean you get to that point. I think that happens everywhere

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you said something just a second ago that

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of piqued my interest right like

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: In the sandbox, right? There's a lot now if you want money

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's there like there is no lacking of it and when I say money, right? Like not go to the bank get alone

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course you can but I'm talking about investors and vc and pe like there's

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Line around the corner if you want it, right?

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But the part that you just mentioned is not like in the normal checklist, right?

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you get past the financial negotiation to the parts that aren't on paper, right? Like

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: What happens after this like how what happens to our people? What do you value? What's co-organization, you know dynamic look like like

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: These are the questions that often get lost and then you're very, you know

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Almost discombobulated or salty with the result of the unwritten part of what happens afterwards

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah change is going to be challenging no matter what for people, right and

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you you know, what is the culture you're going into if it's

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Not aligned or it isn't close or it has very different value systems

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to get a lot of defection and if you depend on your people to continue to deliver that product

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a problem, right? It's gonna so you gotta understand and and

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: If you have a value system where you want that value to be realized by the acquiring company all of a sudden

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That gets compromised. That was always my worry with some of these other organizations

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like and they were offended like why aren't you going to consider and when we did sell

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They got really upset that we didn't consider offer from them because they're a partner and you know, what I never told them was

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You would never have gotten the value from us because I know how you guys run your business

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to say this is someone going I've seen how you're in your business

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked to your employees understand your culture and we would have lost half our business half of our people

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would have I'll be honest. I would have said it but that's just me right? We're super blunt here

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I would have been like

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The luxury of going hey, I'm from Philly. I see it like it is

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Now a little little little little sopranos type delivery there. Yeah, I mean listen

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I I think that that um, and I've known a lot of people especially in msp land who have sold

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And did very well financially like they they got more than they probably bargained for when it was all said and done but

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: When talking with those people I think that their regret you know if there is any is man

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I I was told all these things at the negotiating table. It wasn't

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know it was all in passing

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't in a document and then it didn't happen and then you know what happened afterwards was not great

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I I had gotten great advice before even going through the process when we were doing it which was basically

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: um, you know just remember compromises where nobody gets what they want like a good deal

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it the deal will be a problem if you are ecstatic and you feel like you got everything you want because in the end

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to feel lopsided by the acquirer and then they're going to start to come in

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02]: In an onerous way or a resentful way and obviously if you feel like you got screwed

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to leave be bitter. So you kind of want to get to this place where it

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Feels a little uncut like we're not didn't get everything

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't great and and that made a lot of sense to me and I think that was the case because

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Certainly after the acquisition there are plenty of people going well. What about this? What about that? And you know, there's always tensions and so

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: um, you don't want to be

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that concept where everybody has a little bit of skin in the game, right? Yeah, so it's not all

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: imbalanced, right? So yeah, I've heard that too

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: um, let's talk about the concept of and and

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: No offense, right every

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Two or three or four years our industry or just generally technology land tends to come up with this new

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Thing that they want to market, right?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And so like four years ago five years ago like cyber security was on every billboard and I'm not saying that went away

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It's still surely up up front in presence

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like what I used to believe was called machine learning turned into this AI

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: moniker and like now

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: AI everything right like everybody went to there, you know, like I feel like it

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, four or five years ago everybody just put the word cyber in front of their word and like I said

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: security product now it's like everyone's like AI this AI that like

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean to you? Like what exactly is AI in terms of a deliverable like something I consider

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a great question, George. And I think especially in this industry

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of misunderstanding around what AI is right and what AI equals

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So with the advent in the last obviously 12 to 24 months with

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: LLMs generative AI and the neural nets and what those are producing at a general level kind of this non-interpretive black box AI

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is really amazing and does a lot of cool stuff, right? I mean if you know, it's undeniable what these

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: large language models are doing in their ability to produce information but that's one component of AI, right?

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Machine learning is another component and before LLMs came along everybody felt like

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: ML equals AI and AI equals ML, which is also not the case, right?

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So there are expert systems symbolic systems heuristics learning

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a whole category of technologies. There are categories of technologies that all roll up under the same umbrella as AI

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It might not be as sexy as the generalized LLM AI

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But as you go through this so for us and our AI and our platform

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We have very domain specific sort of white box interpretable AI around something called the directed acyclic graph, right?

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is in graph theory

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: using heuristic technologies symbolic search algorithms to analyze what is structured work in the form of directed acyclic graph

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Against best practices structural defects process

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a little bit of an ML component on existing projects that tasks, but this all rolls up under the umbrella

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We have some customers honestly who look at it and they're like well, that's not AI

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like it's not a large language model, but it's AI. It's interpretable. And by the way

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want black box AI when you're trying to figure out if a project is late

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Or there's a capacity problem. You want white box interpretable AI and I understand that it's

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Not the du jour of an LLM and neural nets

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But when you look at the expert symbolic heuristic systems

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And the white box interpretable nature for and once again, they're domain specific to be sure, you know, and that's the issue right is

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: If you are willing to say hey, there's a problem

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a use case that we're trying to resolve then you can today with today's tech and tools

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You can produce an interpretable

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Result that's augmented by that automation and you know, as I've got a son who's getting his PhD at Berkeley in AI right now

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and as they go through you sort of hear, you know each successive

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Transformation that they're going through in this process in the generative side, but also make no mistake

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It is still black box lacks interpretability. There's a lot of issues associated with that. So um, but once again

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: George and I'm sure you hear this all the time like people are just sort of slapping AI on anything

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what does your AI mean? What does that even mean? What are you saying?

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you have a chat bot in there and you know, we so

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We even rolled a lot of that stuff out and going hey, we don't want to become part of the chat bot revolution

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not what our AI does it it may be like I said outside the realm of the current sexy

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what's going on with large language models, but

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you have the benefit of producing a discrete interpretable result that human beings just can't do on their own?

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: No human being can observe an entire portfolio of projects and tasks and work and everybody's calendars and schedules and their tasks

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They no human being can manage all that simultaneously and say

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna have a delay here. You're gonna have a capacity conflict

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's out with his mother's hip surgery in two months and there's going to be a capacity problem

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is now going to affect this project in your portfolio

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That's just not doable by human beings right and so

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Not sure

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But like I said, you know to your point and I don't take it as

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: As any kind of criticism at all it is it's hard to differentiate when people are saying like well

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you mean? What is your AI so to be clear?

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Our our AI is would be would fall under the you know the guise of an expert system

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said in utilizing some of those other components or

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Categorizations that AI in that process, but it is a white box interpretable solution to deliver a discrete answer

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Um to a user and doesn't hallucinate. I guess this probably be

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I am I I so so let me just repackage it for anyone who's listening to this right

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I may have geeked out a little too much on that. So sorry

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I followed you. I think I followed you. You'll correct me if i'm wrong, right?

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: The chat gpt style AI

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Is ones that take a lot of liberty in delivering the answer to the question, right?

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit hit or miss and the result of what they give you could be wildly off from what you're looking for

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Depending on a lot of variables that you don't control

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What you are talking about is

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: This is my problem

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I've written rules in order to actually solve my problem

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And now i'm using all of the resources that we have available today

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: To give me a definable answer over and over and over again because I have the directions already laid out to get to where i'm going

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That oh that is exactly that is exactly

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: That that's a great synopsis and you know that last part that you talked about

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Were you know goes into category called reactive systems, right?

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: reactive systems are great because they produce just as you said a reliable consistent result and

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You know I use chat gpt. I use I you know

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great tool

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But as as sort of one person explained it to me which I thought was really funny

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's in the art like in this phd program?

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: They said it's like the smartest person, you know, but they're a bit of a pathological liar

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they're really good at making shit up when they don't actually have the right answer and any product that

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Right below it says these answers may be wrong. Please check. I mean like I said, it's it's a great tool

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But we don't have the luxury of doing that if we're gonna say we're forecasting this project's going to be late 14 days

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have a capacity problem with his employee

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And if they were to go to look into that and go well, none of that's true

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like why would you say that? I have no idea why you're saying this is going to be late

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You know that doesn't sound good to me. I have a quick story and we'll get on to the next part but

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh in pennsylvania here and unlike chicago, I'm sure I I never even pulled over in chicago

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But now that I said that I'm sure it'll happen

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I you know, unless you're the state police you can only use a stopwatch and white lines on the road

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how they pull people over. Okay. No kidding. No kidding. So I can tell you definitively that they have more tools than that in chicago

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So when somebody says that in their side view mirror where it says objects may appear closer than they

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: They exist that they clock you but in behind them going between white lines in a stopwatch

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that that that sounds a little bit not

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Exact, right? I mean so when you're saying hey these results these answers may not be right

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go and back check them. I mean that's not that's not good

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what you're putting in to your your final answer

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay if you're right trying to write an email to a friend to let him down that you're not going to be able to

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Make it to their wedding like who cares if it's a little soft around there

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're not going to make up anything that's going to be a problem there once again

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you expecting a discrete answer? It's a much bigger problem if you're trying to balance a budget or you need like I said a

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: discrete map matter and once again

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what's great about the domain these domain specific solutions that can solve that and at some point george

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: The generalized models are going to be able to step in

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And attach to the domain specific white box interpretable solutions

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you know that's when you talk about like where's ai going to go?

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be really really cool. That's going to be a big jump up

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be you know, they're doing tuning around specific models in there to get more accurate information to get more detailed information

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but ultimately

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Harvesting data from a lot of the domain specific solutions as well

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So you know oh, I can I can trust this data, you know when you're talking about healthcare outcomes

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously something very critical. There's a lot of domain specific stuff in ai around healthcare

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: They obviously cannot trust or have the risk of hallucinating on a diagnosis

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Or

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Making medication recommendations like you know if you think about you know pharmaceuticals is obviously a really clear example

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Where they you know, that's got to be that's got to be handled very specifically and very very accurately

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And and carefully for sure. All right, so let's get back to like

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: The core thing that you your company solves for so

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's funny. I was at uh

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I was at a football game. I was at the Eagles Tampa Bay game this sunday

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: My Eagles got embarrassed but that's that's a side topic

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I was there with a bunch of two msp's and a guy

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know from msp land and one of and like you would think that this

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00]: vertical this

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: segment of

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know that I call the sandbox msp it land very mature right everybody's going towards the same thing

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the two guys

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Just made the shift into mana services

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're now just converting a lot of their product and break fixed guys into mana services just now right in 20

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The other guy only 30 percent of his business was mana services 40 percent of his business was product resale

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right now. I want to say product not just saying a box with a computer and a monitor on screen

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about could be sass products

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Stuff like that

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: inevitably in both of their businesses

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Project and one time based revenue was a large block of how they they generated their business

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't care what?

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Company that you would categorize as an msp for the lack of a better definition

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: um it services and mana services

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like even if the majority of your revenue, which we were made to believe is what happens in this this segment, right?

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: north of 50 percent of your revenue is

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The same reoccurring monthly annual reoccurring revenue and then there's some product in there because naturally, you know things like microsoft and all the other

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's project

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: There's you have to do things in order to get people on the right road, right?

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I have not found many msp's if maybe count them on my hands who are like, you know, we do new project work

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all you buy our plan and once you're on the plan you're on the plan

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody has to do some sort of project work

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That being said back to the

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Parallel that I think you laid out very nicely, which is hey, there's general ai

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's domain specific, you know information and like can they tie in?

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a lot of the products in msp lands try and be a little bit of everything and they're not good at any one thing

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I would argue this category that we're about to talk about project management

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Is where everybody has run into uh, it's not great

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We use it because it's there

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: we we have to invoice for it, but we

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Struggle dealing with the system rather than the system working for us, right?

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've heard that on a regular for

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: 20 something years

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It really hasn't changed and there's been some new players in the market and they're okay

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: At it, but again, they're solving a larger problem to which this is just one cog in the wheel

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: However, when you relate it back to how are these companies in msp land?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_00]: However many there are I've heard a number of 400 000 msp is worldwide. Okay, if that's real great

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Every single one of them has a double digit percentage of their business that is project revenue

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at the need

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has it and mileage varies

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We're for sure and we've got some research coming out. We engaged the third party organization

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That's in the space to kind of conduct a survey in the process

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: 70 percent of the market

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That they interviewed and talked to and the business leaders said

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we can't we can't use the project management tools inside

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Of the solutions like they're fine. It's just insufficient. It's causing too many problems for us

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: 50 nearly 50 percent of those owners felt that poor project management was significantly impacting their margins

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So this totally you know your your sense or sentiment about this because this is important to us

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right as we're going into this segment going. Hey, what's the headspace? You know these

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: These solutions are out there. They have pm

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But overwhelmingly it points to what you were saying and and it's a really difficult problem

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: To solve it seems

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: On the surface like maybe it's not a difficult problem, but there is

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: a massive

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Number of details associated

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: with

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: dealing with structured work and and you know

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: As I said before you have to take a different approach with automation. Otherwise

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not they could create great tools

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a human limitation

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: around

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Getting that work done and it's the same thing

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: George around break fix right so are you know you were to say like what are you guys trying to do and what

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're trying to do with one of our customers said they said hey, you're like rmm for projects for us

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You know

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same you guys are kind of doing the same thing that rmm did because it was an older business

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That've been on a long time and they said, you know, we got rmm

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It allowed us to increase the span of control of our engineers to kind of up level their skills

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It reduced the risk it lowered the cost of operations and improved margins and they said

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are automatically monitoring our projects. You're remediating those

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's increasing our span of control around this you're identifying risks early like it's sort of the exact same

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know that cost justification for us is it's the exact same thing and you know, they saw that and and that's you know

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They said we now look at like a lot of these tasks and projects are like endpoints. We have as many

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Project tasks as we do endpoints and they're so much more likely to blow up

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Than an endpoint is so we love that analogy and obviously it was driven by a customer saying and we talked to several other customers

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And they went yeah, I guess it is like that that does make sense, you know

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And but you've got it. You've got to take that rmm concept to the work

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, which is you got to monitor it and its relationship to the rest of the graph the network of work associated with it

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Where those risks lie alert people early so they can fix it. So it doesn't blow up on them, you know

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: well, I mean

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Big picture zoom out right

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: As a business you can either in source

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: A combination of in sourcing and outsourcing things right like if I go to a provider who can do some of these projects for us

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Or I can shift that burden on somebody else. They still have the problem just moved it down the line, right

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Your hope is that they can do it on budget and more efficiently than you can internally, right, which is the same

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: argument for

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Security work right most msp's do not have very security

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You know knowledge specific people in their msp's they outsource to security professionals who are offering it as a service

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Because they don't think they have the ability to do it any better internally

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So like there's a combination of that right like I can go to vendors use their professional services lanes and say

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this customer needs to get to this outcome. Give us a price. I'm now shifting it off to you and other than checking in with you

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Your problem

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: What you know will pay you when the job's done kind of thing

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: However, they're not perfect either right. They need a little bit of management as well

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: the rest of it

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Is hey, I have people in my msp

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Most msp's are small businesses. They're not very large

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Enterprises although they're out there, but that's not the you know the rule

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the exception in my opinion

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the people who are doing the project work are not just project dedicated people in a lot of cases

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: They're doing a lot of things and every hour of the day could be a different hat that they're wearing

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so and inevitably what happens is somebody drops the ball someone

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Something doesn't show up on time

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Something doesn't get done when it's supposed to the communication that was supposed to happen across inside and to the you know

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Outside of your organization didn't happen. Somebody gets upset and then we like put the fire out

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean that is in a microcosm. What happens in my opinion

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, for sure that's that's what happens and

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Getting the early alert around that

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Is the key to either you know fixing it and resolving it or being embarrassed

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And getting the phone call from the customer

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And and I think one of the big issues that is really frustrating for leadership is

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, it's embarrassing when we miss on the delivery of a project

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it undermines the confidence of our customer because their attitude is

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: How how did you not know this like what else are you missing? I'm trusting you to do cyber and all my networks, but

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys couldn't get straight that an engineer was supposed to show up today or why am I calling you

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: About a project. That's late

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Why why why did I as the customer like

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: How did you guys not know this was going to be late and and

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've gotten a lot of customers now that it came around that one point. They said I am tired

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Of getting embarrassed and being surprised because we dropped the ball on a project and to your point, George

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: They have engineers and project coordinators, you know, maybe and a lot of our customers say look

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I I can't get pms. I can't afford to get pms

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I have what i'll call accidental project managers or citizen project managers in my business and so

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know a big part of our solution

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got you know one of our ai agents karmann guides people through the remediation and has little learning lessons to kind of guide and teach people

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this is you need you need to do this with the plan. You need to look at this. You need to make this change

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got a risk here

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's how you can remediate that risk because they're not formally trained

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know what these things are right so guiding them and alerting them to let them sort of self fix

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Same thing elevates their capabilities right augments their capabilities and we talk a lot about our so we said hey look

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all soup. We want it to be supervised. We're not trying to replace people

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to supervise in the process

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can focus on the qualitative relationship part of your business because

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: To me I got asked this question that was on a panel a couple of weeks ago and I said

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: This is always going to be a relationship business these customers are going to buy from

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Their partner because they trust them they trust the relationship and they believe there's fidelity and what they're going to deliver and suggest for them and

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_02]: If technology can facilitate grunt work that they'll make mistakes on or screw up on

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good thing for ai and technology to do so they can focus on the relationship

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Minimizing errors and risks that seem obvious

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Is a really critical thing and the small like you said the smaller businesses suffer from this more

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you george one of the challenges we have like the mid and large-sized businesses

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's super easy for them to cost justify this literally like oh makes total sense

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_02]: My god, we save one customer this pace for itself tenfold and you're reducing and we're you know

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We're massively increasing the number of projects we can manage with the same number of pms

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But they're really small msp's are going. Oh, it's an extra spend right that's coming right out of my margin and process but

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like giving them

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You know a fraction of a body that's going to make them experts around something and that's a big part where some of the smaller ones

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Go look I don't want I don't want to hire a p.m. I can't afford to hire a p.m. You're kind of

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Delaying that cost for me until I get to another level of spend in that process

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said because it's you know what and I'd be interested in your opinion on this george like what do you see happening?

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know with this is a very mna-centric

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Industry and business and there are economies we see sort of economies of scale for the larger players

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: To us I see that you know when you talk about the volume it is it is because of relationships will the relationship component

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_02]: endure

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: On this on on the you know smaller size in the business where you've got a couple of folks three or five folks

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Um individual folks. I've got a brother. He's he's a one person msp

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: My oldest brother's a one person msp today does end point manager that it's all word of mouth, right?

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He never decided never wanted the scale his business

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Wanted to do it and there's a lot of successful one-man msp is out there. So the micro msp or the boot

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_00]: peak msp

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely nothing wrong with that by the way. Um, and I've seen very successful people in that realm. Here's the reality

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I was it we were in Denver last week

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We did msp community minds and we did some activities around it

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had a couple people in the room of varying sizes and that's kind of the best part of any community, right?

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You get different people's point of view depending on where they're at

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Geographically and like size of their business and the type of clientele that they're usually after

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of a a scale to that right? There's a little bit of a rainbow to the spectrum of who goes after who that being said

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I had some people at that table and kind of like a forum type atmosphere who were like

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We are winning business because

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Not because we're bringing new cool blinking lights to the table

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But just because the bar is so low by the big guys

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: By by just

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: answering the phone and showing up on time

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They will they will pay more to do business with us like that's how low the bar is and I'm like, okay

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's fascinating and to that customer and to that msp

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, what's the type of business that you would go after not small they were dealing with medical

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh regional hospitals like not small not enter project

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Not super small organizations kind of midway in between that and I was just like is it really is the bar really that low that low

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That look like literally they're just like the fact that you answer your phone just is amazing to us and I'm like

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Is the the cable internet industry right and I'm in I'm Philly and you know

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Comcast employee, but I mean

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I suffer with Comcast too. Yeah, it's just like it's like hey my my my modem is down

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, okay, we need to send somebody out

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay cool

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: When and they're like, well, we can send somebody between 8 a.m. And 8 p.m.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, uh, okay

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll just be home all day and then you get an alert saying that the person stopped by and nobody was there

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, I've been here all day. I don't know what you're talking about

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody came and then like all of a sudden we've repeat this until somebody actually shows up

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_00]: To the point where a campaign went out saying we'll pay you a gift card if we don't show up when we say we're supposed to

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm like

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is what we're talking about the bar an example

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The bar has been like

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Lowered to like not okay

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you can deliver okay or even good not great just good

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You're winning business. So back to your question of that there's a relationship still matter

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure it does

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And like I've seen back to the example of this msp from this conversation last week

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_00]: They're like we are charging more

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Then big to your point larger players that have more resources that have more marketing dollars

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But the reason they went with us is we literally, you know

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_00]: They felt like we would deliver them better service than the bottom trust it's trust

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it it comes back to that issue of trust. Thank you. Yeah, that like that to me

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I I think this industry is always gonna be about the handshake with those people like trusting like are you gonna protect us and keep us up and running and like make me feel because

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna trust

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, obviously when you when you do that for almost nearly, you know

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say 98% of businesses now having their technical infrastructure up and running is

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know as vital as their brain or their heart and their business

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they're placing a lot of trust in somebody. So how do you manage and you know have fidelity

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know deliver on time do what you're saying you're gonna do manage and be responsive, right?

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are all critical things and listen

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I've talked to hundreds of ms probably thousands of msp's in my 20-ish years here in the sandbox

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Um

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Good one that sold and was very successful at a great outcome on his exit

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's now started a new business

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But he's like listen you you have a couple of shots where you can screw up

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And still have an okay relationship before it gets to we're gonna try somebody else because we don't think that you're reliable, right?

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So like to that end and back to this conversation

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the communication part of this is a major cog in the wheel like

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: If you notify someone that something is off track proactively

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably okay, and you can probably

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know survive that situation assuming it's not happening over and over again

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you are having to deal with it after the fact and they're coming to you rather than the inverse

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The idea that you're the professional and that you can get the job done starts to break down, right?

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So sure

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We had a customer say on their project work their c-sat scores went from mid-60s

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_02]: To the high 90s and we said oh is it because you're they said well

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not necessarily because we're delivering on time every time anymore

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But we're giving them a lot of notice and making them understand

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a supply chain issue or is this and that just gives us credibility

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So the customer will work with over communicate

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Over communicate so i'll i'm gonna ask you this one last question because I know we got a few minutes left

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I've been constantly asked or I've heard the question now. So like

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna try and put ai into the workflow of our msp because then we need less people

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like our customers just get to communicate with the machine

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And like that will get them the same or better with you know less costs, and i'm like

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Guys, I mean

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Are we forgetting the fact that like how many times do you even just call into

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The credit card company and like the system it's too loud

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're trying to talk to it or the airline, you know phone number and it's too loud

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And like you're just repeating yourself over and over again to the point where you're just like agent zero

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Getting to the human being like representative representative representative

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if that's where we're going with this, I don't think that's a good outcome

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we lose right like you need to realize

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And i'm not saying that

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_00]: There is not a future where the technology gets better fine, and i'm sure it will

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a reason mcdonalds did a pilot where they switched the drive-through person

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_00]: With the ai bot at the at the menu

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And they ripped it out and went back to human beings in the states that they were trialing this in after 60 days because

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And like that's a very defined use case like we want to say domain specific right here's the menu

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fixed

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what do you want and in what quantity like it's very

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Rigid right and like that

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Failed and they went back to the human being so what does that tell you like for today? I'm not sure it's there yet

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's definitely not and I think the the component is how can you sort of put

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: A tony stark suit on people so they can have better capabilities right it is about augmenting the human experience not replacing it

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a really good point that kamatsu made to us when they were talking about you know

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we believe what ai and automation in the realm of construction equipment should be about keeping humans safe

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Going into dangerous places they don't want to go into but not replacing

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: augmenting and increasing efficiency of an expertise of and and that was you know as they went through

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We indoctrinate and a lot of them as well

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So we always talk about it's a supervised autonomous process because to your point George there's just there's so many

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: subtleties that occur

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And you the human does need to be involved in that and like I said, but there's a also

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of busy work that can be

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Taken off of their hands so they can focus on the relationship

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all for it and listen we're as an or as an

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_00]: bubble in the overall technology realm

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We will pivot as things change

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But today

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_00]: On october 1st 2024 like let's be practical about what's available today and how good it is

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I like the fact that what you've done is you're like listen

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're going to hire people who are going to go and do all this minutiae work

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Underneath the scenes and make sure that's right all the time

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is going to take a lot of human being time that you don't have to spend

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's use that compute power to solve that so you can keep the relationship communication line going

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree that that's a better approach than

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just try and replace the human being because to your point

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_00]: um

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Within reason being smarter about where you're spending your resources is a good thing

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Going too far into the extreme and this is just life lesson. I guess like usually fails

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah jumping the shark so to speak right yeah, they just they gotta be careful

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_02]: human beings kind of socket probability and math so that's a really good thing for computers to do and

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_02]: They it rarely makes a mistake in those areas where humans make a lot of them. Those are to me

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: We always look at it go. These are really good domains, right?

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: These are really good computers rarely fail around probability and math and discrete math issues and human beings

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Make tons and tons of mistakes in those areas. This feels like a safe domain

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_02]: to live in to give accurate information around but um

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's that's adding I also think having a i d politicians compared to the politicians

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We have might also be a good thing because even if they were to make mistakes and do stuff

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would probably still be a better outcome, but that's another conversation all together

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You're right and we'll have that over a beer at one of probably it nations or something me and you will

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll go down. Yeah, I like that

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Where do people find more information Mike about move villa your msp?

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know specific program and all of the things around how that

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know the integrations and all that good stuff. Yeah, it's all on our website movella.com

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_02]: moovila.com

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can see about the products and there's

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Turials where you can kind of go through the product in the process and videos and details and all you know

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of the versions and there is an msp specific version

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Um that talks that comes with these bi-directional interfaces with connect wise halo and coming soon auto tasks

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Lots and lots of detail out there and happy to end the phone with anyone to talk further about what we do

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And george thanks so much for giving us the time to talk on the show today

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy for you to jump on mike always love talking to people who have figured out a way to make something better in the sandbox

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I you know, I I still think that you know community approaches the best way because like you're never going to know everything

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody's always coming up with a good idea

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you know crowd sourcing, you know an answer is usually better than you trying to figure it out on your own

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But I digress to each their own

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, thank you for jumping on. I know you got a lot of stuff to do on your normal day

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So spending an hour with us was great guys this session was absolutely recorded

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna post it on youtube on the sessions page of msp initiative dot com

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: If you are headed to these events, we're in that gauntlet time like if you're going to it nation for example

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you reach out to mike ahead of time and just let him know? Hey, you know like i'm gonna hit your website

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd love to chat with you at the you know, maybe you and me and george could talk about that

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know ai politics thing who knows but bottom line is

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. I love the banter time. I think I get the most out of it. Maybe it's a northeast filling

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know filling thing, but I digress. I can't wait for it guys. Thanks for watching and mike talked to you in a little while

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, really enjoyed it. Thanks george. Bye. Bye. See ya