Rafael Sanguily of AlertOps

[00:00:01] and

[00:00:13] this month. So happy birthday to all you May babies. Let's get through some housekeeping

[00:00:20] and we'll get on to the good stuff. MSP initiative, DACA. So you're going to find everything that

[00:00:25] we do here at MSP initiative, including sessions like the one that we're on right now. So

[00:00:30] if you want to hear this in audio or video format, you can go to mspinitiative.com

[00:00:36] under sessions. We also posted to pod catcher so you can do it on Android or podcasts

[00:00:40] or your Apple app, et cetera. We also post these onto YouTube. So however you consume

[00:00:46] these, please like share, subscribe, all that good stuff. Got hundreds and hundreds of these.

[00:00:51] We do them for you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to everybody came to MSP community

[00:00:56] minds in Nashville. We are going to be doing another one of these. It looks like in

[00:01:00] Denver in September. We originally had these scheduled for July, but we're going to

[00:01:04] So check out MSP community minds on mspinitiative.com. There's a tab up top and you can see all

[00:01:11] of the MSP panelists and the workshops that we did and an idea of what the schedule

[00:01:15] looks like over two days, totally educational event, something where you should be able

[00:01:20] to walk away with a tangible. These are the steps I need to do in order to get

[00:01:26] to an outcome rather than theory and thought maybe you should think about doing this.

[00:01:31] Here's why you should think about doing this, but like no other steps. How many breakout

[00:01:36] sessions have you ever been to where like effectively you walked away and you're like,

[00:01:40] I guess I need to do homework into that. And then it never happened. Stopped right

[00:01:43] there. Let's actually give you something that you can actually follow. And then

[00:01:48] by the way, here from MSP's in the trench like you hopefully that have figured out

[00:01:53] something, what's working, what's not, what's a mistake. Learn from others rather

[00:01:58] than learning the hard way because that's the way I learned. It's an expensive and

[00:02:04] bloody way to figure things out. Then we have our MSP community block parties, after

[00:02:09] parties, nighttime activities. This is definitely what we're well known for. We have two

[00:02:14] of these coming up in June, one in Denver with our friends at PAX 8 for PAX 8 Beyond.

[00:02:20] This will be on June 10th, which is the second night of the event. And then we'll

[00:02:24] be doing the same week a couple of days later in Dublin for DattoCon or Kaseya DattoCon

[00:02:31] Europe. I believe two days later on the 12th, we'll be doing a block party or after

[00:02:37] party there. So we have plenty of these planned for the rest of the year. These

[00:02:40] are just the next two coming up. You can find these under community block parties

[00:02:43] and MSPinitiative.com. If you are planning to go to these register ahead of time so

[00:02:48] that you're not standing in line trying to type on your phone. I promise you

[00:02:52] that is frustrating. Avoid the line if you can. Then you can check out community

[00:02:56] offers. These are just deals or hookups from around the industry that you may or

[00:02:59] may not take advantage of. And then our industry calendar, which so many events,

[00:03:04] not enough days or weeks in the year. I think more events than there is time

[00:03:10] for you to be at them. But I digress. There they are. That is all of the

[00:03:14] housekeeping. MSPinitiative.com. Now we're going to get on to the good

[00:03:18] stuff. Welcome to the show. Good friend and fellow person in the sandbox who loves

[00:03:26] to play in the sand like everybody else. I sure I like to go clean castle myself.

[00:03:31] Rafael Sanguilly, how are you doing today, Raph?

[00:03:34] How's it going, George? Good to see you, man. Always good to catch up with

[00:03:37] you, buddy. And yeah, man, if you guys haven't caught those MSPinitiative

[00:03:40] events that we did in Nashville was awesome. We had some great feedback.

[00:03:45] Everybody showed up, man. We had some really good stuff. And those things

[00:03:47] are still growing. So the more you guys can come and help us and tell us what

[00:03:52] you want to learn. Look, everybody there had the right mindset. The teachers

[00:03:56] that were all there. I can speak firsthand to you. We were all there just

[00:03:59] trying to help. We're all there legitimately trying to make stuff that

[00:04:02] if you guys are out there and need something, we don't... I mean, there's

[00:04:05] plenty of classes. We don't have to come up with more classes. We can just

[00:04:08] come up with something that's relevant to you that you actually care

[00:04:10] about that you want to really learn. We're not there trying to pitch stuff

[00:04:13] to you, trying to sell you stuff. If you want to buy stuff, almost,

[00:04:15] we're not going to say no. We're there, but it's not... That's not the intent.

[00:04:19] The intent is to really drive some value and some good education for

[00:04:22] the community, man. So please, next time you have one of these, come out.

[00:04:25] Yeah, no. I mean, and actually, thank you, thank you, thank you, Raph.

[00:04:29] Raph is actually one of the people who not just on one day,

[00:04:33] but on two separate days for a two hour time blocks did a session.

[00:04:39] We'll talk about that right now. But at the end of the day,

[00:04:44] when we... And listen, I'm not... And us here at MSP Initiative,

[00:04:49] we're not taking credit for the concept. We are just one of many

[00:04:53] organizations and people in the sandbox who are trying to

[00:04:56] shift the conversation another way. Raph, you've been to hundreds of events,

[00:05:02] hundreds of conferences, road shows, user groups, you name it.

[00:05:07] I know I've been to probably just as many. Man, how many times are you

[00:05:13] you're like, oh, that's actually a pretty cool topic. Let me go learn something.

[00:05:16] You walk out of there and you're like, I couldn't tell you how to start

[00:05:19] anything that we just talked about. And quite frankly, at the end of

[00:05:23] that was a hoax saying, hey, buy my XYZ price item subscription service

[00:05:29] in order to figure out how to do it. And I was like,

[00:05:32] okay, I get it. I understand everybody is trying to do them

[00:05:36] and pay for their stuff, right? But at the end of the day,

[00:05:40] it's like I kind of discount what I'm being told after going into

[00:05:45] a 45, 50, 60 minute session. And I'm like, was that legit or was

[00:05:49] I just being the used car kind of sales pitch to me?

[00:05:53] And so when we created the idea of MSP Community Minds and we

[00:05:58] parked the tour bus after COVID and we're like, hey, what can we

[00:06:00] do other than I think the best part of every event is the networking

[00:06:04] part, right? Talking to other people, face to face, the beers,

[00:06:08] the sandwiches, we all love that. But like, the pizza.

[00:06:12] Absolutely. The pizza is very important. How can we like give

[00:06:16] back, right? To the people in the sandbox in a way where

[00:06:20] they're like, hey, we're actually not looking for

[00:06:23] anything from you, right? Like, we just want you to come and

[00:06:26] like participate and learn something. And like, yeah,

[00:06:30] there's so few, few, few things that are happening out

[00:06:33] there where that's the like the base idea, right? Like, and

[00:06:39] that's really what and again, not taking credit. I know

[00:06:42] there's several people out there, I can name many off top

[00:06:44] my head who are trying to shift into this direction for

[00:06:47] good reason, right? We want to help the community. But man,

[00:06:51] I really love all of the times where I learned

[00:06:55] something as an MSP, like going growing up through the

[00:06:57] industry. I saved myself years, right? Trying to figure

[00:07:02] out what works, what doesn't years like, you couldn't buy

[00:07:06] that time back. Absolutely. So I can't stress that enough.

[00:07:11] And like, I'm not trying to pump out any educational

[00:07:13] events, probably worth your time. But we get it right?

[00:07:17] Like, how many days weeks, you know, can you be out of

[00:07:20] your business? Right? Like, there's a five number of

[00:07:24] attempts, right?

[00:07:26] And every time you're out of the office, man, it's an

[00:07:27] actual investment, right? So like, it sucks when you go to

[00:07:30] something, you spend time, you take you have a bunch of

[00:07:32] stuff going on, you got to bounce out and they got to

[00:07:34] attend this class, quote unquote class, he thinks gonna

[00:07:38] be, you know, educational. And it ends up being like you

[00:07:41] said, it's just like some vendor pitch with like the

[00:07:43] title changed, like how to make money with our product,

[00:07:47] but you know, not so thinly veiled behind education,

[00:07:51] right? So that's the whole thing is like, I've always

[00:07:53] been a big fan of look, just give give give education,

[00:07:55] and then you see the same thing things the same way.

[00:07:57] And that's what I think, without kind of keep hyping

[00:07:59] at this event, I mean, there's a ton of really good

[00:08:00] events out there. But just rule of thumb is you can kind

[00:08:04] of get a vibe of the speakers of the event, what the

[00:08:06] events like, you know, the total energy and the

[00:08:08] mindset, it's just everybody at that event had a really

[00:08:11] good mindset of course, just like just give value first.

[00:08:14] And that's and everything else with his fault, right?

[00:08:17] 100%

[00:08:18] That's great, man. I think that's just kind of the

[00:08:20] culture, man, you breathe that culture, we know that

[00:08:22] you don't take any crap. So I think everybody was

[00:08:25] ready for that going into the event, man. So, you

[00:08:28] know, that was great, both the people that there

[00:08:31] showed up the class really partly participated very

[00:08:33] well, like everybody was in the class, I think,

[00:08:35] get some good feedback. And again, I learned, you

[00:08:37] know, we've taught a million years classes to

[00:08:39] man, we've done a bunch of speaking education

[00:08:41] spots. I'll tell you what, with a really great

[00:08:43] class also has a mindset of like coming in and

[00:08:45] learning instead of just sitting there, arms

[00:08:47] crossed, like, what are you gonna teach me,

[00:08:49] right? But like, really, with the open mindset,

[00:08:51] man, we had some great discussions in that

[00:08:53] class, I learned stuff all the time, like I

[00:08:55] learned stuff all the time, just from even just,

[00:08:57] I feel like I'm leading more of a discussion and

[00:08:58] sharing, like, hey, this is the things I've seen

[00:09:00] that works. Things that I think are really cool.

[00:09:03] Things that I think I've seen them be

[00:09:04] successful out there. By no way am I saying

[00:09:07] this is my invention. I invented this style of

[00:09:09] doing this. It's just like, hey, I saw how

[00:09:12] Michael Jordan dunked a basketball. This is

[00:09:14] pretty much how he did it. You know, and

[00:09:16] like, if you got maybe you guys have a

[00:09:17] different way to dunk a basketball, but this

[00:09:18] seems to be the best way that I've seen so

[00:09:20] far. And then I'll share that with people

[00:09:21] then we have a discussion in class about

[00:09:23] like, hey, how do we do this right? And it

[00:09:24] can relate to anything, marketing, sales,

[00:09:27] technical stuff. I think it's just, again,

[00:09:29] it's that mindset of leading an open

[00:09:31] class, hearing what's working out there

[00:09:32] from you guys and what's not working.

[00:09:34] Right? I mean, again, I learned a ton

[00:09:36] of stuff that might have been really cool

[00:09:38] a couple years ago than today is not

[00:09:41] working out so well at all. So it's

[00:09:42] good to just hear that in real time.

[00:09:44] And like you said, the networking

[00:09:45] needs advance, man. You know, if you

[00:09:47] guys are going to these events, and I

[00:09:49] know a lot of us go out to these

[00:09:49] events and, you know, half the time

[00:09:52] is spent in the networking side, talking

[00:09:53] to different people in the events, catching

[00:09:55] conversations in hallways and hang

[00:09:56] obviously hanging out with the

[00:09:57] different vendors and doing stuff

[00:09:59] after class, after work and after

[00:10:01] classes. But, you know, if you're

[00:10:03] not taking advantage of really

[00:10:04] hopefully driving some value,

[00:10:06] figuring out ways that you can

[00:10:08] capitalize and really understand

[00:10:09] like the partnership mindset, like a

[00:10:11] really good partnership mindset.

[00:10:13] It's a waste of time. You might

[00:10:15] as well just stay at your office,

[00:10:16] man. If you're not going to really

[00:10:16] make them, I mean, still work,

[00:10:18] right? We're having a good time

[00:10:19] and still work.

[00:10:20] Yeah. So for everybody that,

[00:10:23] you know, so actually let's go

[00:10:24] backwards a second. What was your

[00:10:26] session about at Community Minds?

[00:10:29] Sure. So my session was all about

[00:10:31] how to deliver the right message,

[00:10:32] like how to get the right

[00:10:33] messaging across, how to tell your

[00:10:35] story as a brand, how to develop

[00:10:38] your brand story because look, man,

[00:10:40] one of the things we all realize

[00:10:41] right, all MSPs for the most part,

[00:10:43] we're basically all selling the

[00:10:44] same stuff. Okay, it's Pepsi and

[00:10:45] Coke, right? It's, it's different

[00:10:47] brands of cola, right? There's

[00:10:49] going to be a bunch of little

[00:10:50] flavors and stuff in between. But

[00:10:52] really, at its core, we're even

[00:10:54] selling the same logos of the

[00:10:55] same stuff, right? The same lineup

[00:10:57] in many cases. So like what makes

[00:10:59] you different when they're all

[00:11:00] selling the same stuff and to

[00:11:01] the person receiving your

[00:11:03] message, it all kind of sounds

[00:11:04] the same. Everyone's got great

[00:11:06] service. Everyone's got great

[00:11:08] customer service, right? What's

[00:11:09] deeper than that? What's past

[00:11:11] that? What do people really

[00:11:12] connect to? That's kind of what

[00:11:14] the class is all about is

[00:11:15] figuring out the real essence

[00:11:16] of your brand, how to build on

[00:11:18] that, how to identify and then

[00:11:20] scale it and grow like, man,

[00:11:21] there's so many cool tools out

[00:11:23] there with AI now generative AI,

[00:11:25] all that stuff. But I talk about

[00:11:26] in the class that that's not

[00:11:27] going to save you. If you don't

[00:11:28] understand what your voice

[00:11:31] should sound like what you

[00:11:32] want to say and why you're

[00:11:34] saying it, chat GPT is not

[00:11:36] going to give that to you. I

[00:11:36] mean, it's gonna be a cool

[00:11:37] tool once you understand all

[00:11:38] that stuff, and you'll have

[00:11:39] to put the prompts in and

[00:11:40] it's just a matter of

[00:11:41] figuring out, you know how to

[00:11:42] use those tools to tell your

[00:11:44] story. But the most important

[00:11:46] part you're going to figure

[00:11:46] out is what is your story? Like

[00:11:48] what makes you different from

[00:11:50] everybody else that's out

[00:11:51] there sound the same exact

[00:11:52] stuff that you are. And that's

[00:11:53] what we talked about in the

[00:11:54] classes, finding out your

[00:11:55] finding your voice, finding

[00:11:57] your style. What is your vibe?

[00:11:59] Right? What are you putting

[00:12:00] out? And, you know, we talk

[00:12:01] about a whole bunch of stuff

[00:12:02] in class, I talk about also

[00:12:03] how to position your products,

[00:12:04] a lot of a lot of people

[00:12:05] are positioning their

[00:12:06] services or whatever they're

[00:12:07] selling. And it could be

[00:12:08] vendors and it could be, you

[00:12:10] know, partners all suffer from

[00:12:12] the same stuff with it is one

[00:12:13] of pitch and tell you all

[00:12:15] about, blah, blah, blah,

[00:12:16] blah, but they sound so safe

[00:12:18] and they sound so in this in

[00:12:19] the in the in the hunt to

[00:12:21] not piss anybody off or turn

[00:12:22] anybody off. They end up all

[00:12:24] sounding homogenous and

[00:12:25] exactly the same, right? And

[00:12:26] you get lost in what you

[00:12:28] actually do like think about

[00:12:29] it. Every business owner, it

[00:12:30] doesn't matter what we're

[00:12:31] selling. We could be selling

[00:12:33] managed services, we could be

[00:12:34] selling some new software.

[00:12:35] We could be selling, you

[00:12:37] know, whatever new new new

[00:12:40] you know, mousepads, it

[00:12:42] doesn't matter, right?

[00:12:43] Whatever it is that we're

[00:12:44] selling when somebody's buying

[00:12:45] into business decisions, the

[00:12:46] B2B sale, there's only

[00:12:48] four things are thinking

[00:12:48] about, right? If I buy your

[00:12:50] thing, whatever that thing is

[00:12:51] your service or whatever that

[00:12:52] is, how does that impact my

[00:12:53] sales and my revenue? Right?

[00:12:55] Like really specifically,

[00:12:57] the more specificity, the

[00:12:58] specificity you drive behind

[00:12:59] this, the better to become.

[00:13:00] So how does I buy your

[00:13:01] backup solution? Right? How

[00:13:03] is that going to impact my

[00:13:04] sales? How's that going to

[00:13:05] impact my marketability or my

[00:13:07] brand value? How's that

[00:13:09] going to impact my

[00:13:10] operational efficiency? So

[00:13:11] outside of cost, how are

[00:13:13] they going to impact my

[00:13:13] operations? And then outside

[00:13:15] of bottom line costs, how's

[00:13:16] it impacting my overall

[00:13:17] financials and my

[00:13:18] profitability? So if you're

[00:13:20] selling to Smop and you

[00:13:21] understand that whatever

[00:13:23] problem you're solving for,

[00:13:25] the next thing the business

[00:13:26] owner is thinking about is

[00:13:27] how does that impact my

[00:13:28] Smop? If I buy this thing,

[00:13:30] what happens to my sales,

[00:13:31] marketing operations and

[00:13:32] financials? What are the

[00:13:34] impacts of that problem on

[00:13:36] those four areas? And

[00:13:38] doesn't matter what you're

[00:13:39] selling. You can actually

[00:13:40] position some real value.

[00:13:42] Right? And the second part

[00:13:43] to that is, Hey, if

[00:13:45] everyone now you identify

[00:13:46] it's a problem, right? What

[00:13:47] are the three things that

[00:13:48] everyone's thinking about

[00:13:48] before they make a buying

[00:13:49] decision? They're thinking

[00:13:50] about, well, I don't have

[00:13:51] to do anything. But if I

[00:13:52] just keep things the way

[00:13:53] they are, right? I mean,

[00:13:55] Hey, I'm a smart guy.

[00:13:56] There's chat GPT. I'm

[00:13:57] sure I can figure this out

[00:13:58] myself. Why do I, why

[00:13:59] can I do it myself? Is

[00:14:00] your current software,

[00:14:01] the stuff that I'm using

[00:14:02] does it or Hey, you're

[00:14:04] not the only guy selling

[00:14:05] this. So why should I buy

[00:14:06] it from you? Right? And

[00:14:08] if you think about it,

[00:14:09] every marketing program,

[00:14:10] every sales technique

[00:14:12] doesn't matter what you're

[00:14:13] you have to ultimately

[00:14:14] satisfy all those

[00:14:15] questions. You got to

[00:14:16] ultimately get to that

[00:14:17] So again, when you

[00:14:18] understand what you're

[00:14:19] selling, you understand

[00:14:21] what you're selling

[00:14:22] against and who you're

[00:14:23] selling to, like what

[00:14:24] the actual impact of the

[00:14:25] stuff that you're

[00:14:26] driving is selling. The

[00:14:27] next part is just really

[00:14:28] figuring out your voice.

[00:14:30] Like how do you get

[00:14:30] that message across? Right?

[00:14:31] Like we tell people,

[00:14:32] look, there's three

[00:14:32] things that make up

[00:14:34] your brand and why

[00:14:35] people actually like you

[00:14:36] and has nothing to do

[00:14:37] or very little to do

[00:14:38] with the services. It

[00:14:39] has to do with the

[00:14:39] people in your company.

[00:14:41] You got to think they're

[00:14:42] all talking to you,

[00:14:42] right? The people in

[00:14:43] your company end up

[00:14:44] really representing your

[00:14:44] brand. It could be some

[00:14:45] favorite help

[00:14:46] designation, whoever it

[00:14:47] is that your customers

[00:14:48] are interacting with the

[00:14:49] people in your company.

[00:14:50] That's one. The second

[00:14:52] thing they reason I like

[00:14:52] you is your culture.

[00:14:54] They identify with

[00:14:54] your culture. They

[00:14:55] identify what you guys

[00:14:56] connect to. There's

[00:14:57] some kind of similar

[00:14:58] vibe. You guys all

[00:14:59] like the Eagles, you

[00:15:00] guys all like whatever.

[00:15:01] There's something that

[00:15:02] drives you guys together.

[00:15:03] It's a cultural

[00:15:04] connection. And then

[00:15:05] the third thing is

[00:15:05] what you're passionate

[00:15:06] about as a business

[00:15:07] owner. Like why are you

[00:15:08] doing this? What's

[00:15:08] your vision? What's

[00:15:10] your vision for their

[00:15:11] smog specifically? Right?

[00:15:12] If you're an MSP out

[00:15:13] there and you're focused

[00:15:15] on lawyers and you're

[00:15:16] saying, Hey, my that my

[00:15:17] brand value is I make

[00:15:19] lawyers make money. I

[00:15:21] help the lawyers save

[00:15:23] costs and increase their

[00:15:24] their billable rates.

[00:15:26] I show you how to

[00:15:27] leverage technology to

[00:15:28] be way more efficient

[00:15:29] with your law firm.

[00:15:30] Those are all actual

[00:15:31] impact statements that

[00:15:32] if you can back it

[00:15:33] up and then again,

[00:15:35] how you connect to

[00:15:36] those guys, your vibe,

[00:15:37] people, passion,

[00:15:37] culture. Man, you have

[00:15:39] that winning combination

[00:15:40] of those two things

[00:15:41] working together. You

[00:15:41] have the beginning of

[00:15:42] starting to understand

[00:15:43] your brand voice, your

[00:15:44] brand style. Again,

[00:15:45] your vibe that people

[00:15:47] connect to it's outside

[00:15:48] of the solution, the

[00:15:49] solution card or the

[00:15:51] solution stack yourself.

[00:15:53] Wow. I mean, listen,

[00:15:54] let me online that

[00:15:55] for a second.

[00:15:56] Uh, I remember, uh,

[00:15:57] yeah, Gary V right?

[00:15:59] Everybody loves him,

[00:16:00] knows him. At least

[00:16:01] I do. Right? We saw

[00:16:02] him at a data con too

[00:16:03] long ago, a couple

[00:16:04] years ago. Um, yeah,

[00:16:06] I think I remember

[00:16:07] him saying, Hey, if

[00:16:08] you're under $25 million

[00:16:09] in revenue, the

[00:16:11] the name of your company,

[00:16:13] the brand of your

[00:16:13] company, the logo of

[00:16:14] your company is you.

[00:16:16] Right? Like it's a

[00:16:17] person, right? You

[00:16:18] can create whatever

[00:16:20] corporate identity you

[00:16:21] want, right? Like it's,

[00:16:22] it's actually the

[00:16:23] person who's at the

[00:16:24] front of that company,

[00:16:25] who's the face, right?

[00:16:26] Yeah. A lot of people

[00:16:29] RAF that come into

[00:16:30] the technical IT

[00:16:32] services, managed

[00:16:33] services, industry,

[00:16:35] you know, like they

[00:16:36] don't, I feel like

[00:16:38] they like their person

[00:16:39] that they're scared to

[00:16:40] show personality, right?

[00:16:41] Like they love him.

[00:16:42] They like blinking lights

[00:16:44] and all the cool stuff.

[00:16:45] And like that's probably

[00:16:46] a lot of the reason

[00:16:47] they're in the industry,

[00:16:47] right? Like everybody

[00:16:49] kind of like gravitates

[00:16:50] to what they think is

[00:16:51] cool. But like from

[00:16:53] a presentation standpoint,

[00:16:54] they're like behind

[00:16:55] the scenes people,

[00:16:56] right? Like the

[00:16:56] cameraman, right?

[00:16:58] Like the D. Yeah.

[00:16:59] Like they're not the

[00:17:00] people out front.

[00:17:01] So I think to some

[00:17:02] degree, you know,

[00:17:03] the homogenous kind

[00:17:04] of part of all of

[00:17:06] this is they rely on

[00:17:07] other people to create

[00:17:09] the story.

[00:17:11] And reality is,

[00:17:12] is that the story

[00:17:14] sounds the same as

[00:17:15] the guy next door

[00:17:16] and the guy next to

[00:17:16] that person.

[00:17:17] And like all of a sudden

[00:17:18] it's, you know,

[00:17:19] like how many times

[00:17:19] have you gone to even

[00:17:21] a vendor of an MSP

[00:17:23] and like their verbiage

[00:17:25] on their marketing

[00:17:25] collateral almost sounds

[00:17:27] like they're an MSP.

[00:17:29] You do so much.

[00:17:30] Or it just sounds

[00:17:32] like the most generic

[00:17:33] chat GPT post of all

[00:17:35] time in the ever

[00:17:36] changing world of

[00:17:37] whatever, right?

[00:17:38] You can instantly tell

[00:17:39] that this was clearly

[00:17:40] created by some

[00:17:41] chat GPT, some, you know,

[00:17:42] some some language program.

[00:17:45] And it's again, it's because

[00:17:46] even from that perspective

[00:17:48] to create proper prompts,

[00:17:49] even use that stuff,

[00:17:50] you have to know your voice.

[00:17:51] You got to know what

[00:17:52] makes you authentically new.

[00:17:54] What is what are you about?

[00:17:56] Right.

[00:17:56] And it's cool because

[00:17:57] like we know some of these guys.

[00:17:58] You don't have to be

[00:17:59] unfortunately as a business

[00:18:00] owner, you kind of

[00:18:01] have to wear all hats.

[00:18:02] You have to recognize

[00:18:03] that maybe even if you're shy,

[00:18:04] maybe even if that's

[00:18:05] not your jam is to

[00:18:06] get in front of people

[00:18:07] and talk to people

[00:18:08] or whatever.

[00:18:08] Like you said,

[00:18:09] you are the face

[00:18:11] of your company.

[00:18:12] You are the one out there

[00:18:13] that people are getting

[00:18:14] a general vibe of same thing,

[00:18:16] too, from a

[00:18:17] cultural perspective.

[00:18:17] When you hire,

[00:18:18] when you're hiring

[00:18:19] somebody to the company,

[00:18:20] you can instantly tell

[00:18:22] this guy is going

[00:18:22] to be a fit or not

[00:18:23] or this person.

[00:18:24] I just say guy,

[00:18:24] but this person is going

[00:18:25] to be a fit or not

[00:18:26] to work with the

[00:18:27] rest of your team.

[00:18:27] Right.

[00:18:28] You got to look at like,

[00:18:29] hey, what does this look like?

[00:18:30] What are the things

[00:18:32] outside of their skill set

[00:18:33] that we connect on

[00:18:35] that fit into this company?

[00:18:37] When you guys start

[00:18:37] identifying those

[00:18:38] characteristics, those traits,

[00:18:40] you start to find

[00:18:41] some common denominators

[00:18:42] across the board

[00:18:43] that start to help you identify

[00:18:45] what is it about your company

[00:18:47] that's special?

[00:18:48] What is it about

[00:18:48] your company that's unique?

[00:18:49] What's that that thin line

[00:18:51] that connects all you guys together?

[00:18:53] Maybe John over here

[00:18:54] is a hunter.

[00:18:55] Maybe Steve over here

[00:18:56] is a vegan.

[00:18:57] Maybe Jim over here

[00:18:59] is in the beer and,

[00:19:00] you know,

[00:19:01] Shalie over here

[00:19:02] is in a whiskey.

[00:19:03] Right.

[00:19:03] Whatever.

[00:19:04] There's something

[00:19:05] that connects everybody there

[00:19:07] that has everything

[00:19:08] on the same page

[00:19:09] that gets these guys

[00:19:09] to work as a team together.

[00:19:11] Right.

[00:19:11] What does that look like?

[00:19:13] Then some of that,

[00:19:13] I mean, again,

[00:19:14] it takes some introspection,

[00:19:16] but you're absolutely right

[00:19:17] in today's day and age.

[00:19:18] Gary Vee talks about it, man.

[00:19:19] Look, you got to go out there

[00:19:20] and you got to put your

[00:19:21] you got to be of

[00:19:23] you can't be afraid

[00:19:23] to be yourselves.

[00:19:25] You can't be afraid

[00:19:26] to pull the curtain

[00:19:27] back a little bit

[00:19:28] and let your clients

[00:19:29] and your partners

[00:19:30] see what you're really all about.

[00:19:32] I mean, they're going to see it anyway.

[00:19:33] They're going to eventually

[00:19:34] get to know you guys, right?

[00:19:35] You might as well figure out now

[00:19:36] there's a match

[00:19:37] and you like each other

[00:19:38] and there's a connection.

[00:19:38] Because look,

[00:19:39] but we've all done this deal too, man.

[00:19:41] We get the right client,

[00:19:41] especially your starting look.

[00:19:43] For you guys that are just

[00:19:43] starting MSP's out there.

[00:19:45] I totally get this too.

[00:19:47] You need money, right?

[00:19:48] You get some deals,

[00:19:49] some prospect comes in.

[00:19:50] You want to work this deal.

[00:19:51] You're afraid to lose it.

[00:19:52] You're afraid to lose it,

[00:19:53] which is usually in my history

[00:19:56] when you're afraid to lose that deal.

[00:19:57] Already not looking well.

[00:20:00] If you have that fear inside you

[00:20:01] like, man, I really need

[00:20:02] this sale to happen.

[00:20:04] That's you.

[00:20:04] That very rarely

[00:20:05] ever works out of my opinion.

[00:20:07] OK, you kind of have to be

[00:20:09] free of that a little bit.

[00:20:09] That sounds counterintuitive.

[00:20:10] You got to free yourself from that

[00:20:12] that pressure.

[00:20:13] OK, and then secondly,

[00:20:15] also don't just qualify people

[00:20:16] for how much if they can

[00:20:17] if you can afford to bring them on.

[00:20:18] You bring on that one bad client.

[00:20:20] It's not a connection.

[00:20:21] You can tell it's going

[00:20:22] to be a cultural mismatch

[00:20:24] that is a poison pill

[00:20:25] for you manager writers out there.

[00:20:27] That's a poison pill

[00:20:28] and end up costing you

[00:20:29] more than you're making on the deal.

[00:20:31] I don't care who it is

[00:20:32] or what the deal is.

[00:20:33] Right, so we've all done that.

[00:20:35] But that's usually a factor of like,

[00:20:36] hey, I'm not

[00:20:37] connecting with the right people.

[00:20:38] I get it early on.

[00:20:39] You got to sign up

[00:20:39] whoever you want.

[00:20:40] Keep track of those guys.

[00:20:41] Understand who you connect to,

[00:20:43] what connects clients to you,

[00:20:45] what your ideal

[00:20:46] favorite clients look like

[00:20:47] outside of why they pay you.

[00:20:49] I said what they pay you.

[00:20:50] Why do you like

[00:20:51] working with those guys?

[00:20:52] Start identifying those things

[00:20:54] and just bring in those clients.

[00:20:56] And you can also develop

[00:20:57] really good marketing.

[00:20:58] You can develop

[00:20:58] really good messaging

[00:20:59] when you understand

[00:21:01] who the kind of like

[00:21:02] the person you want to talk to is

[00:21:03] like, what does that look like?

[00:21:05] Right. So look, George

[00:21:07] and I have been around

[00:21:07] a bunch of times.

[00:21:08] George can tell you

[00:21:09] one of my favorite things

[00:21:10] about working with George,

[00:21:12] Alec and anybody in the B-Boy team

[00:21:13] if you've ever engaged in these guys.

[00:21:15] Like they are themselves

[00:21:16] 100% of the time.

[00:21:17] You're never going to catch George

[00:21:19] throwing on some weird

[00:21:20] British accent or something.

[00:21:21] You're never going to catch George

[00:21:23] going out and being somebody

[00:21:25] other than George.

[00:21:26] Right. And look,

[00:21:27] that's why people like him.

[00:21:28] That's why people can respect him

[00:21:30] and that's why people like

[00:21:30] because he comes off as authentic.

[00:21:32] Same thing with Alec,

[00:21:33] same thing with Jen,

[00:21:33] same thing with Michelle,

[00:21:34] same thing with everybody

[00:21:35] that people interact with

[00:21:37] is that authenticity.

[00:21:38] So if I can like tell all you guys out there,

[00:21:40] I know it's scary, man.

[00:21:41] I know it's scary,

[00:21:43] but you got to be yourselves

[00:21:45] and should show up on your website

[00:21:46] to the tone,

[00:21:48] to the vibe,

[00:21:49] to your videos.

[00:21:49] My goodness.

[00:21:50] Some of you guys have out there

[00:21:51] some videos.

[00:21:53] Good Lord.

[00:21:55] We are in the

[00:21:55] we are in the Lord's year of 20 of 2024.

[00:21:59] And some of you guys have

[00:22:00] some videos out there

[00:22:01] that look like they were made

[00:22:02] in a high school in 1996.

[00:22:04] OK, like it is really,

[00:22:06] really bad out there.

[00:22:07] So there's no reason to do that.

[00:22:09] And it's a lot of it has to do with again,

[00:22:11] I think that some of you

[00:22:12] don't understand your vibe.

[00:22:13] Don't don't I can identify your style

[00:22:16] or are afraid to show it

[00:22:18] in some of your videos.

[00:22:19] You end up with the same robotic

[00:22:21] monotone ultra safe

[00:22:24] corporate message.

[00:22:25] George, let me tell you something.

[00:22:26] What do you

[00:22:27] I would love to get your vibe on like

[00:22:29] I think corporate messaging,

[00:22:30] that corporate style of tone

[00:22:33] is dying.

[00:22:34] I think it's

[00:22:34] I think it's something that's getting

[00:22:37] it's a it's an old way

[00:22:39] of communication and business

[00:22:40] that I think is being phased out

[00:22:43] by a little bit more of a casual.

[00:22:45] I mean, you know, back to the

[00:22:48] and again, I didn't learn about

[00:22:50] buying personas until way

[00:22:52] later into the game, right?

[00:22:53] Like I'm thinking about when I started

[00:22:55] to like probably took me

[00:22:56] 10 years before somebody's like,

[00:22:58] have you ever figured out what your

[00:22:59] you know, you know, good,

[00:23:02] better, best clientele looks like?

[00:23:04] What's the vertical?

[00:23:05] What's the size?

[00:23:06] Who are the people in?

[00:23:07] Who are the positions

[00:23:08] inside of that client

[00:23:09] that you would be creating

[00:23:11] messaging for?

[00:23:11] Is it the check signer,

[00:23:13] the office manager, the

[00:23:15] certainly the sales leader,

[00:23:17] the whatever.

[00:23:17] And like I never

[00:23:18] I didn't get into that level

[00:23:20] of context until way

[00:23:21] later into the game.

[00:23:22] However.

[00:23:24] You know what resonates with people

[00:23:26] and like I like

[00:23:28] I don't know.

[00:23:29] I was always a jingle guy

[00:23:30] that always worked for me, right?

[00:23:31] Like the Burger King commercial,

[00:23:33] right?

[00:23:33] Like I love those.

[00:23:35] I think that you're hysterical, right?

[00:23:37] And like whenever I hear that,

[00:23:38] like I'm like, oh, yeah, I really

[00:23:40] you know, kind of like jam to that.

[00:23:41] Like I love stuff where

[00:23:44] it's like, oh, yeah.

[00:23:45] You know, if I relate to something,

[00:23:47] I will pay attention

[00:23:48] versus if I don't care,

[00:23:49] like, you know, in one out,

[00:23:51] you know, in one ear out the other.

[00:23:53] And like I think part of

[00:23:54] to your point, Graff, it's like,

[00:23:56] hey, you know, like

[00:23:58] if it's bland,

[00:24:00] there's too much noise

[00:24:01] where I just won't even

[00:24:03] really pay enough attention

[00:24:05] to get whatever the message is, right?

[00:24:07] Like it would just be white

[00:24:09] whitewash for me.

[00:24:10] Like if I want to stop

[00:24:11] what I'm doing and pay attention to

[00:24:13] I don't care if it's a TV commercial

[00:24:15] or radio ad, a feed, right?

[00:24:17] Instagram, Facebook,

[00:24:18] whatever Snapchat,

[00:24:19] whatever it is that you're on so many.

[00:24:21] Like I'll just flip through those

[00:24:23] and I'll never even stop

[00:24:24] unless something catches me.

[00:24:25] Right.

[00:24:26] So like back to the

[00:24:28] hey, what vibes with people?

[00:24:30] What feels authentic?

[00:24:32] What connects with the actual

[00:24:34] target that you're after?

[00:24:37] Like you have to go past just,

[00:24:38] hey, we do this.

[00:24:40] Well, unless I'm have a burning

[00:24:42] need for that right now.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:46] I probably don't pay

[00:24:46] attention to that at all.

[00:24:49] 100% man.

[00:24:50] And that's and finding out

[00:24:51] what that need is like

[00:24:52] there's actually a really good

[00:24:53] if you guys haven't done this before,

[00:24:54] there's a great book out there.

[00:24:56] It's one of my favorite sales books

[00:24:58] of all time.

[00:24:58] If you need another book to read,

[00:24:59] it was a good one to throw on there.

[00:25:01] But it's a book called

[00:25:02] Secret to Question

[00:25:03] based selling by a guy named Tom Fries.

[00:25:05] OK, called short short name is QBS.

[00:25:09] Can everyone kind of knows it is QBS?

[00:25:10] It's a it's one of the best sales

[00:25:12] books I've ever read.

[00:25:13] I had the pleasure of meeting

[00:25:13] that art, the author a while back

[00:25:16] and working with one

[00:25:16] of his top trainers

[00:25:17] way, way back in the day

[00:25:18] in the old MSPU days

[00:25:20] the before times

[00:25:22] to develop this

[00:25:23] really cool sales process.

[00:25:25] Well, going through that

[00:25:26] and working with that over the years

[00:25:27] and different capacities

[00:25:29] and different things.

[00:25:30] I kind of refine

[00:25:31] that model a little bit

[00:25:32] just over time.

[00:25:33] I'm just kind of

[00:25:33] working with different stuff

[00:25:35] and I found you can really get it.

[00:25:36] There's like a single page,

[00:25:37] very easy to follow document.

[00:25:39] It's just a PAS document

[00:25:41] and it helps you figure out

[00:25:43] like again to that need.

[00:25:44] What is the need you're solving for?

[00:25:46] Like if you guys are listening at home

[00:25:48] and want to do this real quick,

[00:25:49] you can literally create this right now

[00:25:50] on a Word document

[00:25:51] on a back of an app

[00:25:52] in your notebook.

[00:25:54] OK, get a blank piece of paper

[00:25:56] and just put P at the top.

[00:25:58] OK, give yourself 10 lines

[00:26:00] like 10 spaces

[00:26:01] to write a little sentence.

[00:26:03] Underneath that, put a little A.

[00:26:05] OK, and then underneath that

[00:26:07] put a little S

[00:26:08] and then the A give yourself

[00:26:09] three sections

[00:26:09] and the S right.

[00:26:11] What is it you're selling

[00:26:12] your backup solution,

[00:26:14] your managed services?

[00:26:15] What is the thing

[00:26:17] that you're selling

[00:26:18] on the P right?

[00:26:19] What problem

[00:26:21] does that thing fix?

[00:26:22] What problems that solve?

[00:26:24] Right.

[00:26:24] What is that problem solving?

[00:26:26] And now write that problem

[00:26:28] very specifically

[00:26:29] to the person in the demographic

[00:26:31] that you're going after.

[00:26:31] Is it the C level person

[00:26:33] of the law firm?

[00:26:34] Is it the CTO

[00:26:35] of a manufacturing place?

[00:26:37] Is it whatever it is

[00:26:40] to that person,

[00:26:40] how would they identify

[00:26:41] that problem in their mind?

[00:26:43] OK, and then think about

[00:26:45] the implications of that problem,

[00:26:47] the business implications

[00:26:49] of that problem

[00:26:51] on their business.

[00:26:52] So let's just say the problem

[00:26:53] is shitty backup or bad backup.

[00:26:54] Right.

[00:26:55] How do they

[00:26:56] what is that bad backup

[00:26:58] for this

[00:26:59] whatever person

[00:27:00] at whatever vertical you're serving?

[00:27:02] How does that impact their smock?

[00:27:04] How does that impact their sales?

[00:27:05] How does it impact

[00:27:06] their marketability?

[00:27:07] How does it impact their operations?

[00:27:09] And how does it impact

[00:27:10] their financials?

[00:27:11] Right.

[00:27:11] So what are the smock implications

[00:27:13] of that problem to that person?

[00:27:16] Come up with 10 of them.

[00:27:17] Come up with 10

[00:27:18] of those implications

[00:27:19] and say losing revenue,

[00:27:20] obviously.

[00:27:21] Right.

[00:27:22] Go a little deeper than that.

[00:27:23] Like what are financial

[00:27:24] regulatory compliance issues

[00:27:25] might be falling out of compliance with?

[00:27:27] What are some different things?

[00:27:28] And then write those all as questions.

[00:27:31] So once you identify

[00:27:32] is it a sales problem?

[00:27:33] Is it a marketing, you know,

[00:27:34] is this affecting marketing?

[00:27:35] Is it affecting sales?

[00:27:36] That implication

[00:27:37] right there as a question.

[00:27:39] This is how you would ask

[00:27:40] the question of marketing engagement

[00:27:41] that is question to sale.

[00:27:43] They asked the question in your voice.

[00:27:45] How would you ask that question

[00:27:47] to that person?

[00:27:48] And then think about the alternatives,

[00:27:49] right?

[00:27:50] Do nothing.

[00:27:50] Fix it yourself.

[00:27:51] Go to competition,

[00:27:52] write the pros and cons of each of those

[00:27:54] and then your solution.

[00:27:55] That's it.

[00:27:56] Once you have that document,

[00:27:58] you can give that to marketing

[00:27:59] and they come with campaigns out of that.

[00:28:01] They have messaging

[00:28:02] that's very specific.

[00:28:03] That talks to specific pain points

[00:28:05] that that person cares about.

[00:28:07] Like why does this matter to them?

[00:28:09] Right.

[00:28:09] And then on the sales side,

[00:28:11] you can actually develop

[00:28:12] the sales questions

[00:28:13] that will coincide

[00:28:14] with that marketing document.

[00:28:16] So again, it makes it really easy

[00:28:17] to get both teams on the same page.

[00:28:19] But more importantly,

[00:28:20] for everybody to understand,

[00:28:22] why would somebody need your service?

[00:28:24] Why do they care?

[00:28:25] Why should this guy care

[00:28:26] about your thing that you're selling?

[00:28:30] No, that's a simple exercise.

[00:28:31] I think, I mean,

[00:28:32] the question is taking the time

[00:28:33] to actually go and do that.

[00:28:34] Right.

[00:28:35] And like, by the way,

[00:28:37] I kind of work backwards from

[00:28:39] like if I look at my most successful

[00:28:41] customers

[00:28:42] from a business relationship standpoint

[00:28:45] and like say, hey,

[00:28:46] why did it work so well

[00:28:47] for these people

[00:28:49] and then go backwards

[00:28:50] to answer some of the questions

[00:28:51] you just asked?

[00:28:52] That's where you ride into.

[00:28:55] Well, here's the messaging

[00:28:56] that I'm actually creating,

[00:28:57] I think.

[00:28:57] Right.

[00:28:58] Because if you're trying to

[00:28:59] locate that customer

[00:29:01] and that's the customer

[00:29:02] that you're after,

[00:29:04] then that's where I want to be able

[00:29:05] to figure out,

[00:29:06] hey, why were they so good?

[00:29:07] What problems did I solve for them?

[00:29:09] You know,

[00:29:09] where did I give them value?

[00:29:11] You know, because

[00:29:13] how many times have we heard,

[00:29:14] hey, you know,

[00:29:15] I know everybody looks at price,

[00:29:16] right?

[00:29:16] They can't afford it.

[00:29:17] They can't afford it.

[00:29:18] But are you selling off of

[00:29:20] problem solving and value?

[00:29:22] Are you just selling,

[00:29:23] you know, lowest lowest guy wins?

[00:29:25] Because.

[00:29:27] I think we all know, right?

[00:29:29] You know,

[00:29:30] everybody sells on price, man.

[00:29:32] Well, everybody sells on price.

[00:29:33] Yeah, but not

[00:29:34] not everything's treated equal,

[00:29:35] though, right?

[00:29:36] Like what exactly?

[00:29:37] How many people water down things

[00:29:39] in order to make the price

[00:29:40] low all the time, right?

[00:29:41] They didn't change the marketing,

[00:29:42] though.

[00:29:42] You know, like how many?

[00:29:44] Let me give you an example as an MSP.

[00:29:45] How many times is an MSP

[00:29:47] was I marketed to

[00:29:48] single pane of glass?

[00:29:51] How many times?

[00:29:51] I probably heard that

[00:29:52] every single time.

[00:29:53] A million times.

[00:29:56] But did it ever actually come true?

[00:29:58] No, no.

[00:29:59] Or what does it mean?

[00:30:00] Like there's so many marketing terms

[00:30:02] that just mean nothing like really,

[00:30:03] because it doesn't mean

[00:30:05] anything to the person

[00:30:06] who's receiving a single pane of glass.

[00:30:08] Like what's OK, great.

[00:30:10] Which which plane of glass

[00:30:11] I'm actually looking at

[00:30:12] because I have three single

[00:30:13] pane glasses.

[00:30:13] So it doesn't make

[00:30:14] a single pane anymore, right?

[00:30:15] It's like I have multiple

[00:30:16] panes of glass

[00:30:17] that I'm still looking at.

[00:30:18] Right.

[00:30:19] So it's just it's the same.

[00:30:20] It's the same concept, man.

[00:30:22] You're you're I think it's

[00:30:23] it's one of those mismatches

[00:30:24] that when you don't complete

[00:30:25] a brand promise,

[00:30:26] you don't complete

[00:30:26] a marketing promise.

[00:30:27] It just falls into this

[00:30:28] this the noise stack

[00:30:30] like they're all trying to avoid.

[00:30:31] How do we separate noise, man?

[00:30:33] And noise really is

[00:30:35] is being specific,

[00:30:36] is being relevant

[00:30:37] and being authentic.

[00:30:39] If you can be specific as to like

[00:30:40] what problem are you solving

[00:30:41] specifically like

[00:30:43] the more specific, the better

[00:30:44] like what are the actual

[00:30:45] pain points specific?

[00:30:46] That's why vertical,

[00:30:47] even if you're not verticalized

[00:30:48] or horizontal for your market,

[00:30:50] it's good to understand

[00:30:51] because look as an MSP,

[00:30:53] we're basically doing

[00:30:54] one of two things.

[00:30:55] We're either helping

[00:30:55] our clients make money

[00:30:57] or helping our clients

[00:30:57] save money.

[00:30:58] And if you don't really

[00:30:59] fully understand those two things,

[00:31:01] because again,

[00:31:02] I think today

[00:31:03] you're providing technology.

[00:31:04] If your technology

[00:31:05] is to produce a business outcome,

[00:31:07] that's the only reason they care

[00:31:09] about that technology.

[00:31:10] Right.

[00:31:11] So you need to really clearly

[00:31:12] understand how does your services

[00:31:14] impact this manufacturing place

[00:31:17] or doctor's office

[00:31:19] or whatever you're selling to.

[00:31:21] You have to know their small.

[00:31:23] Because the more you know

[00:31:24] that the easier becomes

[00:31:25] to become relevant

[00:31:27] and then to tell it

[00:31:27] in authentic way.

[00:31:29] That makes sense.

[00:31:30] Right.

[00:31:30] I mean, that's really

[00:31:30] what we're coming down to.

[00:31:31] But a lot of it said a lot.

[00:31:32] You you you put it out

[00:31:34] just perfect earlier, George.

[00:31:36] It's who's willing to do it.

[00:31:38] Like so many of us

[00:31:39] out there, man,

[00:31:40] hear this crap we've heard.

[00:31:41] I'm sure this is not

[00:31:42] the first time I'm not

[00:31:44] revolutionizing anything.

[00:31:45] I'm sure this is all stuff.

[00:31:46] Most of us in the back

[00:31:47] of our head have heard

[00:31:48] somewhere, read somewhere,

[00:31:49] picked up somewhere

[00:31:50] or just no one inherently

[00:31:51] but doing it like taking

[00:31:54] the time out to actually

[00:31:56] do the thing,

[00:31:58] fill out that form,

[00:31:59] to create your questions,

[00:32:00] to do that thing

[00:32:02] is what separates.

[00:32:03] And I don't care.

[00:32:03] Everyone's busy.

[00:32:04] We're all busy.

[00:32:05] You make the time

[00:32:06] for the things that are important.

[00:32:08] Right.

[00:32:08] Like a lot of us right now,

[00:32:10] dude, a lot of you guys out there

[00:32:12] have sales teams

[00:32:13] that are going out there

[00:32:14] that are all pitching

[00:32:15] in different ways.

[00:32:16] They all have their own

[00:32:18] little tracks

[00:32:19] and their own style

[00:32:20] and how they're saying it.

[00:32:21] Every sales guy should have

[00:32:22] sort of his own style.

[00:32:23] But they should all be saying

[00:32:24] basically like 70 percent

[00:32:26] and be 75 percent

[00:32:28] the same stuff

[00:32:29] because that's what you

[00:32:30] ultimately are selling

[00:32:31] in the way that you're selling.

[00:32:32] Right.

[00:32:33] Some of you guys out there

[00:32:34] aren't practicing at all.

[00:32:35] You're practicing on your clients.

[00:32:38] That's crazy.

[00:32:39] Like, why don't you just record

[00:32:40] yourselves role playing

[00:32:41] and practicing and making sure

[00:32:42] that you know like, hey,

[00:32:44] am I doing it the right way?

[00:32:45] Am I saying the right way?

[00:32:47] Am I coming off the way

[00:32:48] that I want to make sure

[00:32:48] I'm coming off all those things?

[00:32:50] Right.

[00:32:51] Did I forget something?

[00:32:52] Those are all things

[00:32:53] that are just functions

[00:32:54] of lack of practice, man.

[00:32:56] You know, you know,

[00:32:57] you know what this reminds me of?

[00:32:59] Bar rescue.

[00:33:02] All right.

[00:33:02] I know Jen behind the scenes

[00:33:03] loves bar rescue.

[00:33:04] She can't wait to visit

[00:33:05] certain places, but

[00:33:07] every time I watch bar rescue,

[00:33:08] it's like you have a like

[00:33:10] the last one was like

[00:33:11] three brothers, right?

[00:33:12] They create they bought a bar.

[00:33:14] Not need none of them

[00:33:16] had ever been trained

[00:33:17] on how to run this bar.

[00:33:19] They just did whatever

[00:33:19] they thought was right.

[00:33:20] And then they ran this thing

[00:33:21] into the ground.

[00:33:22] They had a month left

[00:33:23] to like keep this place alive.

[00:33:26] Jen's like, I watched that one.

[00:33:27] Yeah, me too.

[00:33:29] Here comes in bar rescue

[00:33:30] and they're like,

[00:33:31] why is this place so dirty?

[00:33:33] Like you walk past

[00:33:35] the cooler a thousand times.

[00:33:37] Like, why is there mold

[00:33:39] on the on the

[00:33:40] on the door to the cooler?

[00:33:41] Like, did you not see that?

[00:33:43] Like you're not using the right.

[00:33:45] You're not using

[00:33:45] the right containers for food, right?

[00:33:47] You just you brought

[00:33:47] like Tupperware from home.

[00:33:49] You can't do that

[00:33:49] in a commercial environment.

[00:33:50] Like, why didn't you know?

[00:33:51] Nobody taught me like

[00:33:53] I feel like a lot of the same.

[00:33:57] For responses, rap

[00:33:58] are what we hear

[00:33:59] from people in this space, right?

[00:34:00] It's like, hey, I know technology.

[00:34:03] OK, that's great.

[00:34:05] But like, what about

[00:34:06] the business of that now?

[00:34:08] Right.

[00:34:08] What about the 18

[00:34:10] things you need to wear as hats

[00:34:12] in order to be successful?

[00:34:13] Right.

[00:34:13] There's accounting.

[00:34:14] There's HR.

[00:34:15] There's sales.

[00:34:17] There's marketing.

[00:34:17] There's, you know,

[00:34:20] type, you know, supply chain, right?

[00:34:21] That order stuff, got to deliver stuff,

[00:34:23] got to ship stuff, got to return stuff.

[00:34:24] Right.

[00:34:24] Like there's all these other things

[00:34:27] that nobody told you about

[00:34:28] when you got into.

[00:34:29] And by the way, America,

[00:34:32] anybody can start a business.

[00:34:33] I love that, by the way.

[00:34:34] I think everybody should

[00:34:36] really honestly consider it.

[00:34:37] But there's all these other things

[00:34:38] that come along with it.

[00:34:39] Right.

[00:34:40] Like you need to file your taxes.

[00:34:41] You're not going to do that on your own.

[00:34:43] You're going to have a specialist,

[00:34:44] you know, do that for you.

[00:34:45] Right. So

[00:34:47] you know, at the end of the day, like

[00:34:49] I think a lot of the things

[00:34:50] I hear from a bar rescue episode

[00:34:52] or what I hear at a channel event

[00:34:53] for IT services, right?

[00:34:54] It's like, yeah, you know,

[00:34:56] I just didn't know.

[00:34:57] So I outsourced that

[00:35:00] and I relied on somebody else.

[00:35:01] And then I spent a lot of money

[00:35:02] on this area and like it didn't work

[00:35:04] for me.

[00:35:05] And it's like, oh, OK.

[00:35:07] So like, did you give them

[00:35:10] the criteria about what

[00:35:11] you're trying to accomplish?

[00:35:13] No, they just told me

[00:35:14] what they were going to do

[00:35:14] and I just paid them.

[00:35:15] Yeah.

[00:35:16] Oh, OK.

[00:35:17] So like even like

[00:35:19] or how many times, Raph, have you heard,

[00:35:21] hey, do you have any marketing material?

[00:35:23] Right. You go to the vendor, right?

[00:35:24] Whatever.

[00:35:25] The 80 vendors for an MSP.

[00:35:26] And you're like, hey, what's your

[00:35:27] yeah, I need a marketing slick.

[00:35:28] Slap the logo on, send it out.

[00:35:30] And they're like,

[00:35:31] did you even read

[00:35:33] what that said?

[00:35:35] Or did you just start sending stuff out?

[00:35:36] That's what you just

[00:35:38] in the inbox, out the inbox.

[00:35:39] Right.

[00:35:40] I just slapped the logo on.

[00:35:41] It's like

[00:35:43] they either don't have enough time,

[00:35:44] don't understand

[00:35:45] how to make the message different

[00:35:47] or better.

[00:35:47] Right.

[00:35:48] And by the way,

[00:35:49] something that I download from a vendor,

[00:35:51] like a technical product sheet,

[00:35:53] I'm not sure that the person

[00:35:54] I'm selling to as my customer

[00:35:56] of the MSP even understands that.

[00:35:59] How could they care?

[00:36:01] And the same thing is like

[00:36:02] if you're to that point,

[00:36:03] that whole vendor enablement side

[00:36:05] is crazy.

[00:36:06] Like if you're out there

[00:36:07] and just slapping your logo

[00:36:09] on a flyer that literally

[00:36:12] thousands of other partners

[00:36:13] are probably doing the same thing

[00:36:15] and you're trying to sound different.

[00:36:18] How do you do that

[00:36:19] when you're literally

[00:36:20] sending the exact same document

[00:36:21] with just your logo on it

[00:36:23] instead of somebody else's?

[00:36:24] What's the point of that?

[00:36:25] Like what's the point of that flyer?

[00:36:27] Like you said, man,

[00:36:27] even that those technical documents

[00:36:29] you've got to think at the end of the day,

[00:36:31] someone has to make a business decision.

[00:36:33] So even if you're dealing

[00:36:34] with like a technical guy inside,

[00:36:36] that's your person,

[00:36:37] like you guys are friends inside.

[00:36:39] You know, you're butting it up.

[00:36:41] That person is eventually

[00:36:42] going to have to present.

[00:36:43] Why do we need this

[00:36:44] to the money people?

[00:36:46] And then that's going to be

[00:36:47] a different conversation.

[00:36:48] If all you had is this

[00:36:49] technical trap track,

[00:36:51] but you haven't satisfied

[00:36:52] with small that really matters

[00:36:54] behind that technical thing.

[00:36:56] That guy's in a very difficult time

[00:36:58] trying to upsell your services

[00:36:59] internally.

[00:36:59] And I know some of you

[00:37:00] out there right now

[00:37:01] have deals that are stuck

[00:37:03] in this like nowhere land

[00:37:06] because even if you have an agreement

[00:37:09] with internal IT person,

[00:37:11] they for some reason

[00:37:12] can't get the go ahead.

[00:37:14] From the upper level

[00:37:16] or from the money people.

[00:37:17] Right?

[00:37:17] That's that's typically a reflection of,

[00:37:19] hey, we did a bad job

[00:37:21] conveying the right type of value

[00:37:22] or arming that person

[00:37:24] with the right thing.

[00:37:25] You think just giving them

[00:37:26] another technical white paper

[00:37:27] with your logo on it

[00:37:28] and to solve that.

[00:37:29] Like that's that you're not helping

[00:37:31] the business conversation.

[00:37:33] No.

[00:37:33] And so back to the

[00:37:36] how do you grow and like

[00:37:39] and listen, we've all been there,

[00:37:41] right?

[00:37:42] Crawl, walk, run.

[00:37:43] Hopefully you actually get to the running part.

[00:37:45] But like most people

[00:37:47] who start in this industry

[00:37:49] start based off of referrals, right?

[00:37:51] Like you talk to your network.

[00:37:53] They recommend you to other people.

[00:37:55] And like you hope over time

[00:37:57] that that continues happening

[00:37:58] and you do a good job

[00:37:59] and people are happy.

[00:38:00] And that's great.

[00:38:01] And like that will eventually

[00:38:02] exhaust itself, right?

[00:38:03] Like every business

[00:38:05] networking organization out there

[00:38:07] like BNI and LATIP

[00:38:09] and all those guys, right?

[00:38:10] Like you'll eventually exhaust

[00:38:12] your most immediate network.

[00:38:15] And then what?

[00:38:17] And then you stop,

[00:38:18] you hit your glass ceiling.

[00:38:19] Hey, I've gone as far as I can go.

[00:38:21] Maybe.

[00:38:22] But like at the end of the day,

[00:38:23] the people who have made it

[00:38:25] to this point

[00:38:26] and I hope that

[00:38:27] if anyone's listening to this,

[00:38:29] you know, you're in my mind

[00:38:31] one of three people, right?

[00:38:33] Raph, you're hey,

[00:38:34] I started as a one man show.

[00:38:36] I slowly grew.

[00:38:37] Maybe I added a person or two over time,

[00:38:39] but we're still relatively small,

[00:38:41] unmanageable.

[00:38:41] And like I'm not trying

[00:38:42] to become mega corp, right?

[00:38:43] I just got to comfortable.

[00:38:45] OK.

[00:38:46] Like you ever to maintain

[00:38:48] that over time,

[00:38:49] hopefully it's profitable for you

[00:38:51] and like hopefully you didn't

[00:38:52] just create a job for yourself,

[00:38:53] right?

[00:38:54] Because I can't tell you

[00:38:54] how many times I've heard

[00:38:55] somebody in the business

[00:38:56] for 20, 25, 30 years

[00:38:58] and all they did was get enough money

[00:39:00] to generate a paycheck

[00:39:01] that they could have done

[00:39:01] if they were just working

[00:39:02] for somebody else, right?

[00:39:04] Like wasn't worth it.

[00:39:05] Many cases less.

[00:39:07] Many cases less.

[00:39:08] Right.

[00:39:09] Second guy, second guy,

[00:39:11] is like, hey,

[00:39:13] I understood I really wanted

[00:39:14] to get past small.

[00:39:16] I really invested.

[00:39:17] I took a chance.

[00:39:18] I borrowed money.

[00:39:19] I built, built, built

[00:39:20] to it.

[00:39:21] Yeah, like traditional path, right?

[00:39:22] Like went, got a line of credit,

[00:39:24] took a loan out credit card,

[00:39:26] you know, zero percent, whatever

[00:39:28] and like grew it to

[00:39:30] you know, maybe 25, 35,

[00:39:31] 45 people, whatever, right?

[00:39:32] But like, you know,

[00:39:33] created a nice smallish

[00:39:36] medium business

[00:39:37] that is doing some good revenue.

[00:39:41] But in order to keep everybody fed,

[00:39:42] in order to pay everybody's bills,

[00:39:44] in order to keep everybody happy,

[00:39:46] that requires you

[00:39:47] to continuously grow, right?

[00:39:49] Because if you're not growing,

[00:39:50] you're dying.

[00:39:50] Your customers don't stick around forever.

[00:39:52] The greater economy

[00:39:54] affects those people, right?

[00:39:55] Like, you know,

[00:39:56] so what happened in COVID unexpected.

[00:39:58] But hey, if you were in hospitality,

[00:40:00] you're in trouble, right?

[00:40:00] It's like they shut down.

[00:40:01] So then you got the other side, right?

[00:40:05] Corporate land, right?

[00:40:07] Big money, you know,

[00:40:09] like outside, you know,

[00:40:10] kind of, you know, investors

[00:40:12] coming in,

[00:40:13] throwing the briefcase down.

[00:40:15] A lot of money,

[00:40:15] but a lot of expectations

[00:40:17] with that money raft, right?

[00:40:18] There's strings.

[00:40:19] There's, you know, they have

[00:40:20] they expect to get their money.

[00:40:21] No free lunch.

[00:40:22] No, they expect to get their money back, right?

[00:40:24] They're not just throwing it out there for fun.

[00:40:26] So like in my mind,

[00:40:27] there's like three

[00:40:28] there's like three categories, right?

[00:40:29] You're like somewhere

[00:40:30] in between those three.

[00:40:32] What all three require

[00:40:35] is new business

[00:40:36] coming through the door.

[00:40:38] And there's only two ways

[00:40:39] to have business, right?

[00:40:40] Existing customers

[00:40:41] adding net new things

[00:40:43] that generate more revenue

[00:40:45] or net new customers coming in

[00:40:46] that add new logos,

[00:40:48] you know, to your business, right?

[00:40:50] Without those two things.

[00:40:53] Eventually, over time,

[00:40:55] things will contract

[00:40:57] to the point

[00:40:57] where those customers don't exist, right?

[00:40:59] Like this is just textbook,

[00:41:01] whether you went to,

[00:41:02] you know, professional,

[00:41:03] you know, school

[00:41:04] or college or whatever, right?

[00:41:07] So at the end of the day,

[00:41:08] I know this is really old school rap,

[00:41:10] but I'm going to throw it out there.

[00:41:12] You got to constantly be thinking about,

[00:41:13] you know, like some people use ABC

[00:41:15] always be always be closing,

[00:41:17] always be selling out

[00:41:18] with some version of that.

[00:41:19] But it's like,

[00:41:20] where does your next

[00:41:21] revenue generation point come from?

[00:41:25] 100 percent.

[00:41:27] Yeah, I mean, you got to know where you look.

[00:41:28] And here's one good point to that.

[00:41:30] Just just goes back to,

[00:41:31] I think, marketing,

[00:41:32] which is just marketing

[00:41:34] is constantly evolving

[00:41:35] and how we get the message out.

[00:41:36] But at the end of the day,

[00:41:37] you got to get something out

[00:41:38] because forecasting referrals

[00:41:42] is not a winning strategy.

[00:41:43] You don't know how many referrals

[00:41:45] you're going to get.

[00:41:45] For for should be great money.

[00:41:47] You should be getting referrals

[00:41:48] as a function of you doing a good job.

[00:41:49] Referrals will come in.

[00:41:50] Hopefully you guys are good at what you do

[00:41:52] and you're going to get people say,

[00:41:53] hey, I know this dude over here

[00:41:54] is my computer guy

[00:41:56] and he's a really good guy

[00:41:57] or a good girl or whatever.

[00:41:58] And then check them out.

[00:41:59] Boom.

[00:41:59] You shoot him over.

[00:42:00] That's referral, right?

[00:42:01] That should happen regardless.

[00:42:04] That's not like

[00:42:05] because you never know how many for

[00:42:07] you can't forecast referrals.

[00:42:08] And if some of you out there

[00:42:09] are planning on selling your business,

[00:42:10] which, by the way,

[00:42:12] even if you never

[00:42:13] are ever going to sell your business,

[00:42:15] you should run it like if you are.

[00:42:17] You should run it like if you are,

[00:42:19] because I had somebody tell me

[00:42:20] once a phrase long time ago

[00:42:21] that always kind of stuck with me.

[00:42:23] And it was like, listen,

[00:42:24] everybody has an exit plan.

[00:42:26] The only decision

[00:42:27] was it's going to be on your terms or not.

[00:42:29] So you're going to either

[00:42:31] you're we're not

[00:42:32] we don't live forever.

[00:42:33] We don't make it to the like

[00:42:34] no one will live forever.

[00:42:35] Right.

[00:42:35] Unless you plan on

[00:42:36] just keeling over at your desk

[00:42:38] one day at work.

[00:42:39] Right.

[00:42:40] You want to make sure you have some type

[00:42:42] of like exit strategy

[00:42:44] to give you the option

[00:42:45] if you ever want to have it.

[00:42:47] And it's not just going down

[00:42:48] somebody else's terms.

[00:42:49] OK, so make sure to keep that in mind.

[00:42:51] I'll give you guys another cool

[00:42:53] thing that kind of I notice

[00:42:54] people are really struggle with.

[00:42:57] Everyone talks about discovery

[00:42:58] and you should be asking questions

[00:42:59] in a sales call.

[00:43:00] Right.

[00:43:00] We've all we've all heard

[00:43:02] this before.

[00:43:03] I hope that in the sales

[00:43:04] in a sales conversation,

[00:43:05] when you're doing a sales meeting,

[00:43:07] you should be asking questions.

[00:43:08] Right.

[00:43:09] So one exercise I love to do

[00:43:11] and I teach this to I put this

[00:43:13] I put this out in our class

[00:43:14] and then we had a lot of fun with this.

[00:43:15] OK, so I'm going to challenge

[00:43:17] all of you guys are out there.

[00:43:18] This is one little bit of homework.

[00:43:20] Any of you can do this.

[00:43:21] OK, try to find four strangers

[00:43:24] over the course of like

[00:43:25] a couple of days weekend or something.

[00:43:27] Maybe three or four different people.

[00:43:28] OK, and you want to get

[00:43:30] four pieces of information

[00:43:32] during the scope of one conversation.

[00:43:34] Find out their favorite movie

[00:43:36] and or series.

[00:43:37] Some people are like,

[00:43:37] I just love Game of Thrones.

[00:43:39] Some people like Reservoir Dogs,

[00:43:40] whatever. Right.

[00:43:41] What's your favorite movie

[00:43:42] and or series?

[00:43:43] What's your favorite song

[00:43:45] and or album?

[00:43:47] I'll even give you artist.

[00:43:48] I just like Beyonce.

[00:43:49] Right.

[00:43:49] That's George's favorite.

[00:43:50] So either that or

[00:43:54] or their favorite color

[00:43:57] and then their favorite food.

[00:43:59] OK, so if you can get all

[00:44:01] four of those pieces

[00:44:02] of information or disparate

[00:44:03] pieces of information

[00:44:04] in the scope of one conversation

[00:44:06] without the person you're talking to

[00:44:07] asking, why are you asking me this?

[00:44:09] You win.

[00:44:10] The moment they ask you,

[00:44:12] why are you asking me this?

[00:44:14] You lose.

[00:44:15] And just take a mental note

[00:44:16] of this, of why it broke down.

[00:44:18] These are typically

[00:44:19] low risk questions.

[00:44:21] Right.

[00:44:21] What is what is it?

[00:44:22] Where's there any risk

[00:44:23] when you telling me

[00:44:24] your favorite food, right?

[00:44:25] Or your favorite color or whatever.

[00:44:27] But in the wrong context,

[00:44:29] right, without the right

[00:44:30] without the proper,

[00:44:32] you know, segue,

[00:44:33] but that the proper

[00:44:34] reduction of risk

[00:44:35] in the conversation and credibility.

[00:44:38] Any any of those questions

[00:44:39] come off as like

[00:44:40] as as high value,

[00:44:41] as high risk.

[00:44:43] Right.

[00:44:43] It's more important

[00:44:44] to a couple of things

[00:44:45] I tell people one.

[00:44:47] This teaches you how to gather

[00:44:48] four disparate pieces

[00:44:49] of information

[00:44:50] and constantly be thinking about

[00:44:52] in the scope of the conversation.

[00:44:53] Man, I got to get this.

[00:44:54] I got to get that.

[00:44:55] I got to get this

[00:44:55] because nothing to those call.

[00:44:57] You have to get

[00:44:57] disparate piece of information

[00:44:59] without making it sound

[00:45:00] like an interrogation.

[00:45:02] Right.

[00:45:02] How do you keep it

[00:45:03] conversational so you know where to go?

[00:45:04] And the second thing

[00:45:06] is to be hyper aware.

[00:45:08] So you're actively listening,

[00:45:09] but you know where

[00:45:09] this conversation is going.

[00:45:11] Like I've seen the best salespeople

[00:45:12] that I've seen

[00:45:13] are the ones that make

[00:45:14] this feel super comfortable.

[00:45:16] We've all had salespeople

[00:45:17] sell.

[00:45:17] We've all been

[00:45:18] in that sales environment

[00:45:19] where just feels so

[00:45:21] like Max.

[00:45:21] It just feels comfortable

[00:45:23] asking the questions,

[00:45:24] but I'm learning stuff

[00:45:24] along the way.

[00:45:25] It feels kind of like

[00:45:26] it doesn't feel like I'm being

[00:45:27] sold like sold.

[00:45:29] It feels like I'm just having

[00:45:30] a really good educational

[00:45:30] conversation

[00:45:31] that's leading someone.

[00:45:33] Right.

[00:45:33] That's typically how we flow.

[00:45:35] The thing is that most of us

[00:45:37] are just struggle

[00:45:38] with like how to ask for that stuff.

[00:45:40] And I'm saying, look,

[00:45:41] if you can't get

[00:45:41] somebody's favorite color,

[00:45:43] I'd expect to get their budget.

[00:45:45] I'd expect to get

[00:45:46] really important stuff

[00:45:47] like, you know,

[00:45:48] it's in the wrong context.

[00:45:49] Right.

[00:45:50] Those are like

[00:45:50] really high value questions

[00:45:52] that we expect our salespeople to ask.

[00:45:53] I'm like, look,

[00:45:54] start practicing by

[00:45:55] asking people conversationally

[00:45:57] for really low value questions

[00:45:59] and see how you do

[00:46:00] and see what you learn

[00:46:01] from that exercise.

[00:46:03] Now, that's that's

[00:46:04] it's a good point.

[00:46:05] I quite frankly,

[00:46:09] you know, back to the genuine answers,

[00:46:12] right, that we started

[00:46:12] with in the beginning, right?

[00:46:13] Like truthful, genuine.

[00:46:16] I am, Raph.

[00:46:17] I once had I am not

[00:46:18] very recently, right?

[00:46:19] I had somebody,

[00:46:20] you know, on a I was doing prospecting.

[00:46:22] I was doing that discovery.

[00:46:23] I got all their criteria

[00:46:25] of like what they were after.

[00:46:26] Right.

[00:46:27] And then on the second call,

[00:46:30] I went back and I'm like,

[00:46:32] all the all the answers changed.

[00:46:33] And I was like, wait a minute,

[00:46:34] wait a minute, wait a minute.

[00:46:36] We talked about this.

[00:46:37] We talked about this.

[00:46:38] I was like, all of a sudden

[00:46:39] you went to a completely

[00:46:40] different list of,

[00:46:42] yeah, it's like you went to

[00:46:42] a same project.

[00:46:44] But did something change?

[00:46:46] And what I found out was

[00:46:47] I was getting half

[00:46:49] and, you know, like I was getting

[00:46:50] not 100 percent truthful responses.

[00:46:52] Right.

[00:46:52] And it's like,

[00:46:53] you know what?

[00:46:55] Maybe this isn't the right fit.

[00:46:57] I think we should pause.

[00:46:59] You know, let's let's just decide

[00:47:00] that this is this is not

[00:47:01] the right place for both of us.

[00:47:03] And like maybe maybe you should

[00:47:04] look into other options.

[00:47:05] Right. Why?

[00:47:07] I didn't even give you

[00:47:09] anything yet.

[00:47:09] Right.

[00:47:10] We're at the very beginning of this.

[00:47:11] I shouldn't be getting

[00:47:12] dramatically different answers

[00:47:13] from call to call.

[00:47:14] Right.

[00:47:15] From meeting the meeting.

[00:47:16] So like part of your job,

[00:47:19] everybody wants everybody

[00:47:20] wants to win.

[00:47:21] Right.

[00:47:21] I hope so.

[00:47:23] I love winning.

[00:47:24] But back to the winning,

[00:47:27] the right business

[00:47:28] versus the wrong business.

[00:47:30] At that stage,

[00:47:31] you're just as much evaluating

[00:47:33] if they're the good fit

[00:47:34] on the other side.

[00:47:35] Like, you know,

[00:47:36] how many times have you gone

[00:47:37] through the forums,

[00:47:38] the Reddits, the Facebooks, whatever?

[00:47:40] And you're like, hey,

[00:47:41] you know, like the other MSP

[00:47:43] is not handing over information.

[00:47:45] The other MSP is,

[00:47:46] you know, like locking things down.

[00:47:48] We're having to jump through hoops.

[00:47:49] And it's like.

[00:47:50] You ever asked a question why?

[00:47:54] Yeah, like did they pay their bill?

[00:47:57] Did it end well or,

[00:48:01] you know, like was it just,

[00:48:02] hey, they were shopping

[00:48:03] and it was that time

[00:48:04] and it was renewal time

[00:48:05] and they found a better deal.

[00:48:07] Or did something go badly?

[00:48:08] Right.

[00:48:09] And like, by the way,

[00:48:10] yeah, badly with the last guy.

[00:48:13] So it's probably going to happen to you

[00:48:15] at some point in,

[00:48:16] you know, in the in the timeline.

[00:48:17] Right.

[00:48:18] So like.

[00:48:20] You know, like sometimes you do need

[00:48:21] to do a little bit of extra homework.

[00:48:24] And to your point,

[00:48:24] like if you can't ask basic questions

[00:48:26] that are aren't very,

[00:48:27] you know, like people would deem

[00:48:28] not super important.

[00:48:30] How do you get to the actual?

[00:48:32] What am I walking into?

[00:48:33] Right.

[00:48:34] Yeah.

[00:48:35] And plus it looks like people get there.

[00:48:36] It lets people a little guard out a little bit, man.

[00:48:38] Like it's practicing getting

[00:48:39] getting conversational

[00:48:41] with your discovery

[00:48:43] because like there's two things

[00:48:44] in that kind of move us along.

[00:48:46] Right.

[00:48:46] It's credibility and curiosity.

[00:48:48] If I can leverage credibility

[00:48:49] to say that, hey,

[00:48:49] I know what I'm talking about.

[00:48:51] And then I can leverage curiosity.

[00:48:53] Curious is the speed of which the sale moves.

[00:48:55] So if I have credibility already established,

[00:48:57] I can leverage curiosity

[00:48:59] to kind of make the deal keep moving forward.

[00:49:00] Like, hey, that sounds great.

[00:49:01] Next step.

[00:49:02] I just want you to get to the next step.

[00:49:03] I'm not trying to close a whole deal.

[00:49:05] I'm just trying to get from one step

[00:49:06] to the next step.

[00:49:07] Right.

[00:49:07] That's where we can leverage

[00:49:09] credibility and curiosity in each of those steps.

[00:49:11] But if you guys,

[00:49:12] if you're going out there

[00:49:13] and you're sounding like you're gargling

[00:49:15] marbles trying to ask these questions,

[00:49:17] dude, you how are you going to?

[00:49:18] You don't.

[00:49:18] It's going to ruin your credibility,

[00:49:20] which is going to make it harder

[00:49:21] for you to get to the other side.

[00:49:23] Right.

[00:49:23] It's going to make people now question you.

[00:49:25] But to your point, George,

[00:49:26] about qualifying and understanding

[00:49:28] who your demographic is,

[00:49:29] who you're talking to,

[00:49:30] who your ideal customers are.

[00:49:31] Man, some of the best salespeople

[00:49:33] that I've seen,

[00:49:34] like the Michael Jordan salespeople

[00:49:36] out there that I've seen,

[00:49:36] because there's somebody

[00:49:37] somebody out there just brushing it.

[00:49:40] Disqualified probably more deals

[00:49:41] than they close.

[00:49:42] They know right off the bat

[00:49:44] is this going to happen or not.

[00:49:45] They can know with this

[00:49:46] conversations that go anywhere.

[00:49:48] They have a really clear understanding

[00:49:49] after that first meeting.

[00:49:50] They can tell you,

[00:49:51] hey, there's something here.

[00:49:53] And I think that's a function

[00:49:54] of just experience, practice,

[00:49:56] understanding your value,

[00:49:58] understanding the client

[00:49:58] you're going after,

[00:50:00] understanding what you can do

[00:50:02] as a business and the impact

[00:50:03] we provide when you clearly

[00:50:05] understand that stuff

[00:50:06] and then understand

[00:50:07] how to really extract

[00:50:09] like credible,

[00:50:10] meaningful information

[00:50:11] from your prospects

[00:50:12] in a conversational way that like

[00:50:14] it's not like interrogation time.

[00:50:15] It just makes it feel easy.

[00:50:17] When you're in that position,

[00:50:18] it's a position of a lot of power.

[00:50:19] It takes a lot of practice

[00:50:20] to get through those sounds easy.

[00:50:22] It sounds super easy.

[00:50:23] Like all this stuff that me

[00:50:24] and George are telling you,

[00:50:25] I know that right now sounds

[00:50:26] a common sense like, yeah, duh.

[00:50:28] Of course I know all this

[00:50:30] and B probably sounds super easy.

[00:50:33] The reality is very few

[00:50:34] of you were actually doing

[00:50:36] or actually doing it in that way.

[00:50:38] And so things that again,

[00:50:40] it's like men don't

[00:50:42] don't take yourself so serious

[00:50:43] you forget to improve

[00:50:45] and forget to practice

[00:50:46] and forget to look at

[00:50:47] where you're vulnerable at.

[00:50:48] Don't get complacent.

[00:50:49] And one of the things again

[00:50:51] that I've seen, I'm George,

[00:50:52] you have partners that have blown up,

[00:50:54] like you have partners

[00:50:55] that have just reached massive success.

[00:50:56] We've all seen these guys out there.

[00:50:58] They're killing it out there

[00:51:00] and they all have,

[00:51:02] I think a couple of common denominators.

[00:51:03] One, they never feel like I got it.

[00:51:06] They're always constantly learning.

[00:51:08] They're always constantly

[00:51:09] looking at how to improve.

[00:51:11] They're always usually open

[00:51:12] and vulnerable to being like, hey,

[00:51:14] where can I like,

[00:51:16] what can I do better?

[00:51:17] Like which that

[00:51:18] where am I falling behind

[00:51:19] that and being real about that?

[00:51:20] Right.

[00:51:21] I think they have a mindset

[00:51:22] that is like not a mindset

[00:51:24] of like scarcity of just

[00:51:25] yeah, trying to be a snake

[00:51:27] and steal as many weird deals

[00:51:29] for me as possible.

[00:51:30] They have a mindset

[00:51:31] using abundance of like

[00:51:32] giving back of like do more.

[00:51:34] What is this really all about?

[00:51:36] And the third thing

[00:51:37] I think that I've seen

[00:51:38] that has really kind of implemented stuff

[00:51:40] and seen success

[00:51:41] is people practicing

[00:51:43] like actually

[00:51:45] practicing the function

[00:51:47] and making improvements

[00:51:48] and keeping tenuously

[00:51:49] going from there,

[00:51:50] like not just being like

[00:51:51] complacent with their process.

[00:51:53] It's practicing it, testing it.

[00:51:54] Is this process

[00:51:55] that we were using before

[00:51:56] still applicable today?

[00:51:58] Whether it's a technical process,

[00:52:00] whether it's a marketing process,

[00:52:01] whether it's a sales process,

[00:52:03] don't fall in love

[00:52:04] with the process,

[00:52:05] fall in love with the results

[00:52:06] and then figure out how to get there.

[00:52:08] I'm going to use that

[00:52:09] don't fall in love

[00:52:10] with the process fall

[00:52:12] in love with the results.

[00:52:13] Okay, I like that.

[00:52:15] That's gonna be the

[00:52:16] that's gonna be the quote of the day.

[00:52:18] There we go.

[00:52:19] That's what I'm gonna do.

[00:52:20] I'm gonna actually put that on

[00:52:21] you know, I'm gonna put that

[00:52:23] on my side.

[00:52:24] I'd be like, hey, everyone,

[00:52:25] quote of the day.

[00:52:27] Awesome, man.

[00:52:28] Process can always be tweaked, right?

[00:52:29] And actually

[00:52:31] like sometimes a recipe

[00:52:32] does need to be tweaked.

[00:52:34] You know, like

[00:52:35] you know, you might improve it

[00:52:36] and then sometimes you're,

[00:52:37] you know, but

[00:52:39] you need to work backwards

[00:52:40] from the outcome that you're

[00:52:41] that you're after.

[00:52:42] I always work backwards.

[00:52:43] I don't know why I just

[00:52:45] reverse waterfall,

[00:52:45] whatever they call it, right?

[00:52:46] It's like, hey, I want my

[00:52:47] I want this to be what I'm after.

[00:52:49] I want this to be what my customer feels.

[00:52:51] I want this to be that,

[00:52:52] you know, like,

[00:52:53] you know, like maybe the question is,

[00:52:54] Raph, how do I get to the end of my

[00:52:56] my deals or my sales cycle faster?

[00:52:59] Right.

[00:52:59] It's like instead of six months,

[00:53:01] I want to make it three months,

[00:53:02] two months, one month.

[00:53:03] Right.

[00:53:04] It's like, how do I

[00:53:05] how do I make that happen for me?

[00:53:07] Right.

[00:53:07] And you got to like work backwards

[00:53:08] to that or how do I make sure

[00:53:10] my customers so happy with me

[00:53:13] that they will give me a referral

[00:53:14] if I ask them for it.

[00:53:15] Yeah.

[00:53:15] Right.

[00:53:16] So like these are the things

[00:53:18] that you should be after.

[00:53:18] But anyway, Raph,

[00:53:20] I really appreciate you jumping on here.

[00:53:21] Thank you, man.

[00:53:22] By the way, I really appreciate you

[00:53:23] for jumping into MSP Community Minds.

[00:53:25] Hopefully we can like

[00:53:27] recreate the magic in September.

[00:53:30] And hopefully you're around

[00:53:31] and you can help us again.

[00:53:32] Yeah, sure, man.

[00:53:33] For anyone.

[00:53:34] And by the way,

[00:53:36] Raph's actually not even

[00:53:38] like tied to anyone, right?

[00:53:39] Like, you know, you would think,

[00:53:40] oh, by the way, go to RaphsMarketing.com.

[00:53:43] That's not even true.

[00:53:45] He doesn't even have that.

[00:53:47] He's he's he's actually doing other things.

[00:53:49] But Raph, if somebody was like,

[00:53:51] hey, I really like what he said.

[00:53:53] And they want to reach out to you

[00:53:54] and just say, hey,

[00:53:55] you were talking about this.

[00:53:56] Can you put me in the right direction?

[00:53:57] How do people get over?

[00:53:58] Sure.

[00:53:59] So right now, actually,

[00:54:00] I am tied to somebody.

[00:54:01] I've been working with the company

[00:54:03] for the last few months,

[00:54:03] really helping them

[00:54:04] fix their messaging and sales

[00:54:07] and everything I'm taking

[00:54:07] on the position as your CRO.

[00:54:08] It's a company called AlertOps.

[00:54:10] You can reach me at

[00:54:11] Rafael S.

[00:54:12] R-A-F-A-E-L-S

[00:54:15] at AlertOps,

[00:54:17] A-L-E-R-T-O-P-S dot com.

[00:54:20] Just reach me there.

[00:54:21] Reach me on LinkedIn.

[00:54:21] Rafael Sanghili.

[00:54:22] I have a pretty unique last name,

[00:54:24] so there shouldn't be

[00:54:25] a lot of us running out there.

[00:54:26] You might run into my dad, maybe,

[00:54:27] but that's going to be

[00:54:27] a whole separate conversation.

[00:54:29] But other than that,

[00:54:31] if you guys have any questions,

[00:54:31] look, I'm pretty easy to get a hold of.

[00:54:32] As a matter of fact,

[00:54:33] I'm going to give you guys,

[00:54:34] which I should never do

[00:54:35] on a live webinar,

[00:54:37] but I'm going to give you

[00:54:37] my cell phone number.

[00:54:38] And if you want to text me or call me,

[00:54:39] you can reach me there.

[00:54:40] It's 562-544-8902.

[00:54:44] This is the like George knows me, man.

[00:54:46] I am a person who if you need help,

[00:54:49] I will literally do whatever I can

[00:54:50] to help you with this within my power.

[00:54:52] That's I you guys we've known each other.

[00:54:54] This is one of the reasons

[00:54:55] I love George too.

[00:54:55] He's the same way about just

[00:54:57] we give stuff away, man.

[00:54:59] I'm happy to give away information.

[00:55:00] I'm happy to give away

[00:55:01] help whatever we can,

[00:55:02] because the more that we all help each other,

[00:55:04] the more we all share information

[00:55:05] like this in these forums,

[00:55:06] the better we all do.

[00:55:08] Man, we all it's funny.

[00:55:09] George and I and all of us,

[00:55:11] all vendors and even the partners,

[00:55:12] you have this like

[00:55:13] you all complain about the same crap

[00:55:14] every year about these events

[00:55:16] and about like, man,

[00:55:16] we're not getting any value

[00:55:18] or wish it was that

[00:55:18] or wish it was this.

[00:55:19] Guess who can change all that?

[00:55:21] We can.

[00:55:22] We all can.

[00:55:22] We're all this is our

[00:55:24] this is our house.

[00:55:25] We can build it any way we want.

[00:55:26] So just tell us the stuff

[00:55:28] that you want to work on.

[00:55:28] Let's all keep pushing

[00:55:29] information back together.

[00:55:31] Let's all keep not falling

[00:55:32] in love with the process, right?

[00:55:33] Let's figure out how to get the results

[00:55:34] and how to always help each other

[00:55:35] to get there better, quicker, faster.

[00:55:37] This community is what makes

[00:55:39] this really special, man.

[00:55:40] It's one of the things I love

[00:55:40] about this MSP community.

[00:55:42] We're unique.

[00:55:43] We're super unique.

[00:55:44] Like I don't unless you've ever

[00:55:45] worked outside this industry.

[00:55:47] It's really

[00:55:49] it's it's something of a whole

[00:55:51] what this child with this

[00:55:52] and with this channel

[00:55:53] really is all about the love

[00:55:54] that kind of weird like

[00:55:57] help that we all do for each other.

[00:55:58] They're all there for each other.

[00:55:59] That is that's a unicorn

[00:56:02] in the business world, folks.

[00:56:03] That's a we got to keep that.

[00:56:04] That's a special thing.

[00:56:05] I hope we can all keep.

[00:56:07] Hey, man, I can't wait to see again.

[00:56:08] I'm sure we'll see each other soon.

[00:56:10] By the way, you'll go to alert ops dot com.

[00:56:12] You'd be like this has nothing to do

[00:56:13] with what the session was about.

[00:56:14] That's the whole point.

[00:56:15] That's the whole point.

[00:56:17] We're just trying to help people

[00:56:19] take the help.

[00:56:21] Take it.

[00:56:21] Absolutely.

[00:56:22] Hey, if I'm in your town, come by

[00:56:23] and do you see a comedy show?

[00:56:24] I actually do stand

[00:56:25] we didn't get into this,

[00:56:26] but if you stand up probably as well.

[00:56:27] If you guys want to come on

[00:56:28] see a show from in your town,

[00:56:30] also look me up.

[00:56:31] Yeah, I need to do that.

[00:56:33] Guys, this session

[00:56:34] was absolutely 100 percent recorded.

[00:56:36] You want to rewind

[00:56:37] to get Raps phone number.

[00:56:38] By the way, that's not the first time

[00:56:39] somebody gave their phone number out.

[00:56:41] Every time it happens,

[00:56:42] I almost fall out of my chair.

[00:56:43] I'm like, oh, wow, that just happened.

[00:56:44] That's great.

[00:56:45] So that's awesome.

[00:56:46] So this session was recorded.

[00:56:47] You'll find on MSP initiative dot com

[00:56:49] under sessions.

[00:56:50] It will be on our YouTube channel.

[00:56:51] It'll be on all the podcatchers.

[00:56:52] You'll see it.

[00:56:53] You'll see it later on today.

[00:56:54] Hopefully, Raph.

[00:56:55] Thank you.

[00:56:55] Thank you.

[00:56:56] Thank you again.

[00:56:57] Be talking to you soon.

[00:56:57] Everyone else, please

[00:56:58] keep coming back to these

[00:57:00] and hopefully we'll see you

[00:57:01] either in person

[00:57:02] or at an event real soon.

[00:57:04] Have a good one, everyone.

[00:57:05] See you later.

[00:57:05] Bye, everybody.