Sam Chawkat of Dynamic Network Solutions

[00:00:01] Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a September 10th edition of the MSP Initiative MSP Talk.

[00:00:09] This is our fourth, I think, session of the month.

[00:00:13] We are in that time of year where all the stuff seems to happen in like a 90-day window

[00:00:18] of just absolute calamity, but all good.

[00:00:21] We're going to get to the housekeeping and then we'll get into some good stuff.

[00:00:25] So if you don't already know where to go, mspinitiative.com.

[00:00:30] This is where we park pretty much everything that we do here.

[00:00:32] So for example, this session was being recorded and we'll put it on our YouTube page or

[00:00:36] podcatcher and the sessions page of mspinitiative.com.

[00:00:40] You can scroll down and see all of them rewind play, subscribe forward, like all that good stuff.

[00:00:45] You know what to do.

[00:00:47] And basically two weeks were headed out to Denver, Colorado for the second MSP Community

[00:00:52] Minds of the Year.

[00:00:53] We did Nashville earlier in the year and actually the original MSP Initiative Community

[00:00:57] Minds event was in Denver.

[00:00:59] So we are coming back September 25th, 26th.

[00:01:03] If you go to the Community Minds Tab on mspinitiative.com, you will see the two day agenda,

[00:01:07] which is a combination of MSP panels in the mornings and two hour workshop sessions

[00:01:14] in the afternoons.

[00:01:15] So you will see all of our MSP panelists and our workshop presenters.

[00:01:19] This is not a 45 minute death by PowerPoint with a credit card swipe at the end if

[00:01:24] you want to know more.

[00:01:24] We're bringing you people who have figured stuff out or have something from a strategic

[00:01:30] value we hope to present to you.

[00:01:32] And this is a whiteboarding collaborative way.

[00:01:35] So this is the best way we know how people learn, right?

[00:01:39] Networking with people in the trench with like you and then ultimately picking

[00:01:43] the brains of experts from the industry.

[00:01:45] So check it out.

[00:01:46] By the way, it costs you absolutely nothing as an MSP to attend and register this

[00:01:51] event.

[00:01:52] There's no 399, 999, 1299 registration fee.

[00:01:55] It is zero.

[00:01:56] You just got to show up, which we understand some time and some money to get there.

[00:02:00] And you got to take out of your business to come and learn.

[00:02:03] But who better than to learn from the people who are doing technology

[00:02:07] businesses, hopefully like you.

[00:02:09] So check it out.

[00:02:10] MSP Community Minds in Denver, September 25th and 26th.

[00:02:15] Then what we're probably better known for are the MSP community block parties.

[00:02:21] There are four left for the rest of the year.

[00:02:23] We are going to Paxate beyond in Germany.

[00:02:26] We did Paxate beyond in Denver earlier this year in June.

[00:02:29] We are headed to Berlin on October 14th at 9 p.m.

[00:02:33] will be the MSP community block party in Berlin.

[00:02:36] It's a very beer, you know, kind of brewery beer hall kind of theme,

[00:02:41] which is perfect because it comes right after Oktoberfest,

[00:02:43] which if you didn't know ends in September in Germany.

[00:02:46] Little known fact, if you Google it.

[00:02:48] So we hopefully you'll join us there.

[00:02:50] Then we head out to Miami for DattoCon Miami on South Beach at the Fountain Blue.

[00:02:56] We are going to be in on property inside of the Fountain Blue.

[00:02:59] Our event will start on October 29th at 9 30 p.m.

[00:03:03] So no reason to even get one step out of the front door and get an Uber.

[00:03:07] Walk down the street.

[00:03:08] You literally walk into the lobby and into Liv Nightclub, which is on property.

[00:03:13] Then the big one of the year, which we do every year,

[00:03:15] is I T nation connect in Orlando.

[00:03:18] So that will be the sixth of November.

[00:03:23] It'll be at 9 p.m.

[00:03:24] Again, we will be announcing our radio recognizable

[00:03:33] band or artists tomorrow on all the social media feeds.

[00:03:37] So you haven't already guessed who it is.

[00:03:40] We dropped a couple hints.

[00:03:42] Tomorrow you'll find out exactly who it is.

[00:03:44] And we can't wait for you to join us because, you know, we're throwing a concert

[00:03:48] and block party for the community.

[00:03:50] And then lastly, we finish out our year in Sydney, which we were just there

[00:03:55] in August, but going back again in November, it will be November 12th at 8 30 p.m.

[00:04:00] in Darling Harbor for DattoCon Sydney.

[00:04:05] All of these four block parties are absolutely 100% free.

[00:04:09] That's right.

[00:04:10] We're fooding you, beverging you, networking you,

[00:04:13] giving you a good time, transporting you if necessary for free.

[00:04:18] If you're an MSP, please join us.

[00:04:19] So literally for you and the community.

[00:04:22] Then we have some deals and offers for people from around the industry

[00:04:25] that you may or may not take advantage of and our industry calendar,

[00:04:28] which goes through all the gauntlet of things happening between now

[00:04:31] and then of the year, which is the busiest time of year.

[00:04:34] We'll reset that for 2025 once we get closer to January.

[00:04:40] That is all the housekeeping.

[00:04:41] You'll find that MSP initiative.com.

[00:04:45] Today we bring on a friend of the show and someone who helped us in Nashville,

[00:04:53] at MSP Community Mines in Nashville and coming again to MSP Community Mines

[00:04:57] in Denver, Sam from Dynamic Network Solutions.

[00:05:01] How you doing today, Sam?

[00:05:03] Good. How are you, George?

[00:05:05] You know, it's that time of year.

[00:05:07] Fall football, conferences, block parties.

[00:05:11] A lot of air travel during the summer of the year.

[00:05:14] Yeah, I know.

[00:05:15] I haven't seen the house in quite some time, so I definitely feel your pain.

[00:05:19] 100%. So Sam, for people who don't know you and your company and your background,

[00:05:24] why don't you give us a little bit of background on yourself

[00:05:27] and how you got into and stay in technology land?

[00:05:32] And then we'll go from there.

[00:05:34] Yeah, sure.

[00:05:34] So, name is Sam Chauquette from Dynamic Network Solutions.

[00:05:40] Started working at the organization back in 2006 when I was just like two guys

[00:05:47] in a basement and that was after I did my my stent in the federal government

[00:05:52] and realized that was not the place for me.

[00:05:55] So as a plucky 21 year old, I said, I want to just leave this place

[00:05:59] and start up one of these things called an MSP and see what this works out.

[00:06:03] So, two of us in a basement.

[00:06:06] Now we're like 40, six employees across like four or five states.

[00:06:12] So, you know, we kind of figured something out.

[00:06:14] But there's always learning curves, always something you have to do every day,

[00:06:17] learn new processes, no formalized business training or anything of that nature.

[00:06:23] You just have to kind of figure it out as you go.

[00:06:26] And a lot of it's just looking at the client perspective and what they need

[00:06:31] and then being able to develop solutions around it.

[00:06:34] Because at the end of the day, we get lost in fixing technology rather

[00:06:38] than using technology to help people, which is what literally pays the bills every day.

[00:06:57] I think George froze, Sam.

[00:07:00] Yeah, I know, right?

[00:07:02] I'm actually on the phone with Michelle.

[00:07:03] So, Michelle, you could say hi to Sam.

[00:07:05] He's on MSP.

[00:07:05] I lie.

[00:07:08] You know, let's give George, I guess a minute.

[00:07:10] I like how it froze on him though.

[00:07:12] He's got a really goofy look.

[00:07:18] He looks like the Grinch kind of.

[00:07:21] Yeah, it's not a great look.

[00:07:24] Oh, there you go.

[00:07:24] He disconnected.

[00:07:25] I guess he lost internet.

[00:07:26] I guess he'll be coming back in in just a moment.

[00:07:29] So everyone hang tight.

[00:07:35] It's like the first time I've ever had to do this.

[00:07:39] Oh, first time he's ever like frozen up and you get to like.

[00:07:42] Yeah, like totally frozen.

[00:07:43] Sometimes he has like a visa on his phone, but.

[00:07:47] Looks like he's in the office.

[00:08:14] All right.

[00:08:16] There we are.

[00:08:19] Of course, he's when I'm back.

[00:08:24] Sorry about that, Tim.

[00:08:25] So with us.

[00:08:26] It's there.

[00:08:27] All right.

[00:08:28] Awesome.

[00:08:29] Now that everybody knows a little bit about Sam, let's talk about, you know,

[00:08:33] MSP Community Mines in Nashville.

[00:08:36] We'd love to hear your experience.

[00:08:37] I know you're on a panel with other MSPs again in Denver.

[00:08:43] So just curious, you know, what was your opinion of the event?

[00:08:47] Did you find it valuable?

[00:08:49] Would you recommend other MSPs join us?

[00:08:53] Sure.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:54] I mean, it was definitely valuable.

[00:08:56] There's always some kind of, I mean, every conference with the exception

[00:09:00] of certain ones that will leave unnamed, you always get some kind

[00:09:03] of negative information.

[00:09:04] So I always tell everybody going out to conferences is a must.

[00:09:08] You need to go to every and all conferences, but, you know, they

[00:09:12] they kind of add up in cost.

[00:09:14] And so it's particularly ones that you don't really have to

[00:09:17] incur that much of an expense.

[00:09:18] You definitely want to attend.

[00:09:20] And secondly, you want to attend ones that you get a lot of feedback

[00:09:25] from peers.

[00:09:26] And yeah, you have some vendors there too, because that's how

[00:09:29] a conference has to be paid somehow.

[00:09:32] But at least it's not like death by PowerPoint and like a sales pitch

[00:09:37] all the way through.

[00:09:38] So I definitely recommend people to go to it, at least try it out

[00:09:42] for once and see if it's your cup of tea.

[00:09:45] But you only get out when you get it.

[00:09:47] So if you put in a lot of like socializing time talking to

[00:09:51] people, learning things, you're going to get a lot more value out

[00:09:54] of it.

[00:09:55] If you're just going to sit there and not really ask questions,

[00:09:58] not really hang out and ask for peers, other things.

[00:10:01] You're only going to get so much out of it.

[00:10:04] So it's really designed for you to network and talk to people.

[00:10:08] But if you don't do that, it's really not going to help you out as much.

[00:10:14] Fair enough.

[00:10:15] And the panel that you're on, what are we talking about?

[00:10:20] It's Town Hall.

[00:10:21] So whatever the whole wants me to talk about.

[00:10:23] What are some of the things from the Town Hall session in

[00:10:26] Nashville that you find interesting?

[00:10:31] Well, I mean, it was I was on it.

[00:10:33] So I found myself interesting, I guess.

[00:10:36] But it's hard to really tell because when you're you're presenting,

[00:10:39] you're kind of more focused on what you want to say rather than

[00:10:43] like what others are saying.

[00:10:44] But the the one of the great things that came out of that Town Hall

[00:10:48] was just talking about like how to deal with certain clients

[00:10:52] that won't accept like maybe your pricing strategy or maybe

[00:10:57] your recommendations and hearing from other people like how do you address that?

[00:11:03] And I think the other thing that we also touched on that is really

[00:11:08] a problem in this community, to be honest with you, is analysis paralysis.

[00:11:14] Nothing really gets implemented.

[00:11:16] Nothing gets done because everybody just wants to make something

[00:11:19] 100 percent before they just sale the ship and fix it along the way.

[00:11:25] And that's Dally Fool's progress and also productivity.

[00:11:29] So it's really we talk through strategies of like,

[00:11:31] how did we go through things of like an evaluation of a product to production?

[00:11:36] And how long is that roadmap in that timetable?

[00:11:40] And there's certain people that, you know, will take something.

[00:11:43] Maybe they'll they'll buy it internally, some product or something

[00:11:47] and sit on it for a year before they even push it out to anywhere to their clients.

[00:11:51] And so it's really talking to your strategies of like,

[00:11:54] how do you find thought partners in your your client base

[00:11:58] to be able to work with you on new initiatives?

[00:12:01] How do you pitch it to them to allow them to do things like that?

[00:12:06] And how does it work well for packaging and also selling down the road to?

[00:12:11] So those are kind of a couple of things that came to mind.

[00:12:22] All right, we got you, George, popped out again.

[00:12:25] All good.

[00:12:26] Had a little bit of a breakdown, but as all good technology people do,

[00:12:30] back up plan, disaster recovery strategy.

[00:12:33] And here we are again.

[00:12:34] There you go.

[00:12:35] So thanks for a little bit of patience there.

[00:12:39] Sure.

[00:12:41] You know, it's curious, Sam.

[00:12:42] You know, you I think, and correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:12:46] a large focus of your company is the education vertical.

[00:12:52] Yeah, that's a good assumption.

[00:12:54] Yeah, we do maybe about 80 percent,

[00:12:57] 70, 80 percent in the education vertical,

[00:12:59] the remainder and various other different forms.

[00:13:03] OK, and then you're based out of like Maryland,

[00:13:07] you know, kind of Baltimore region, I think your company.

[00:13:10] But you're operating nationally.

[00:13:14] Is that correct?

[00:13:15] In the continental United States.

[00:13:17] Yes. OK.

[00:13:19] So like, do you have people in all those states

[00:13:23] or how do you manage this at scale?

[00:13:26] Oh, yeah, it's a great question.

[00:13:29] So not all states do we have like people that are there,

[00:13:33] like full time tax.

[00:13:35] We have certain like states where it's it

[00:13:38] depends on the opportunity.

[00:13:39] Certain states are just more project work that we do out there.

[00:13:44] So we have a lot of different either engineers

[00:13:47] or other kind of people that work within that area

[00:13:49] that we can be able to tap onto as resources.

[00:13:52] Building a very strong partner network is important

[00:13:56] whenever you try to go anything on an national basis.

[00:14:00] So like whether it's another peer,

[00:14:03] whether it's somebody else,

[00:14:05] whether it's a different kind of functionality,

[00:14:07] you always need to build a very strong partner network

[00:14:10] in order to be able to even attempt

[00:14:11] to do anything on a national scale.

[00:14:14] Without that, you're just going to be really grasping at straws

[00:14:18] and how do you deliver on the quality

[00:14:22] and the excellence that you try to do

[00:14:24] without having to like having to step up

[00:14:27] and do everything from that standpoint.

[00:14:29] And then it never gets that.

[00:14:30] And then you get the mouse for out.

[00:14:33] Also, everything gets what if the death

[00:14:35] and nothing really progresses.

[00:14:38] So there's a point where you need to have strong partners

[00:14:41] to be able to help you out from certain things.

[00:14:43] However, the quality control

[00:14:45] you need to have internal people

[00:14:47] that's part of that process.

[00:14:49] So you can't just leave it all up to partner relationship.

[00:14:52] I've seen it too many times where some people

[00:14:54] just find a partner, sub it all the way out,

[00:14:58] and then that's it.

[00:14:59] That's all they do.

[00:15:00] They kind of hands off from the whole perspective.

[00:15:02] And then when that happens,

[00:15:04] you see the quality control starts going down, down, down.

[00:15:07] So it's only as good as the people

[00:15:09] that you have internally

[00:15:10] that's managing those relationships.

[00:15:12] So when you say partners, right?

[00:15:14] Like it could be somebody you met at an event

[00:15:16] or a trade show or not.

[00:15:17] So yeah, it could be, you know, soul consultant.

[00:15:21] It could be another IT technology.

[00:15:23] It depends on all the above.

[00:15:25] Yeah, all the above.

[00:15:27] You know, it just all depends

[00:15:28] on what makes best sense for your organization.

[00:15:30] Sure.

[00:15:31] And then like, how do you structure,

[00:15:34] like, do you have like a preset,

[00:15:36] you know, agreement terms?

[00:15:38] Like, how do you usually engage those people?

[00:15:42] So it all depends on, like for us,

[00:15:45] like that's a little bit of a secret sauce

[00:15:47] kind of category, but like outside of that.

[00:15:50] For sure.

[00:15:51] No, no, I definitely won't

[00:15:54] unless there was a check being involved.

[00:15:56] But literally the way it works is like for us,

[00:15:59] like there's always an engagement that needs to happen.

[00:16:01] There has to be a vet.

[00:16:03] And then once it's a vet

[00:16:04] and then looked at from that standpoint,

[00:16:06] you always have to have some legalese in place

[00:16:08] to protect you.

[00:16:09] So you have to make sure you have all your ducks

[00:16:11] in a row for that.

[00:16:13] But then it's a lot of it has to be based on the vet.

[00:16:16] Like to be honest with you,

[00:16:17] like you have to know what you're doing

[00:16:19] and have to know like how to interview

[00:16:21] and look at a potential partner

[00:16:23] before you open up Pandora's box into a nightmare.

[00:16:28] And yeah, there's been certain times in our history

[00:16:31] where we had to like wing it with some partners

[00:16:34] and you really didn't have a good feeling.

[00:16:37] But my gut said,

[00:16:38] hey, this person's gonna work out.

[00:16:41] Like you just gotta go.

[00:16:42] It's like any kind of relationship

[00:16:45] or any kind of hiring process.

[00:16:50] Sometimes you can do everything on paper,

[00:16:51] but sometimes you have to gut it too.

[00:16:53] And so, you have to make sure that you understand

[00:16:57] how people are and what they're gonna do for you

[00:17:00] and to understand if they're gonna be a good fit.

[00:17:02] And luckily we've done a really good job

[00:17:04] that on a personal level.

[00:17:06] So like on all of our employees.

[00:17:08] So we just kinda apply the same thing

[00:17:09] when it comes down to partners.

[00:17:11] Cool.

[00:17:12] And then like,

[00:17:13] I know this might be an old concept,

[00:17:14] but it definitely fits this conversation

[00:17:17] or this part of it is like,

[00:17:19] how do you protect the relationship

[00:17:22] when you're working with another entity, partner, company

[00:17:27] that does the same thing you do?

[00:17:29] Like how do you make sure that the rules

[00:17:32] and the lines don't get crossed here?

[00:17:35] Sure.

[00:17:36] I mean, you have to develop swim lanes

[00:17:38] and you have to at least make sure

[00:17:40] they're very transparent at the beginning.

[00:17:42] And by transparent,

[00:17:44] you need a meeting to kinda go over it

[00:17:48] and then in further enforcement in paperwork and legalese

[00:17:53] in regards to like what is

[00:17:55] and what is not allowed in this arrangement

[00:17:58] so that not only is it just a conversation

[00:18:01] but also there's some paperwork that backs it up too.

[00:18:05] Luckily we've never had to go down that route

[00:18:07] but we always have to paperwork

[00:18:09] to be able to back us up from that perspective

[00:18:11] of like partner engagement letter before that.

[00:18:15] You obviously wanna do like anything from an NDA standpoint

[00:18:18] just so that there's nothing from that perspective

[00:18:20] that gets out.

[00:18:22] There's always like things you always wanna watch out for

[00:18:24] like obviously client poaching, employee poaching

[00:18:26] those are the kind of big things

[00:18:27] you wanna watch out for too.

[00:18:29] But as long as you have your ducks in a row

[00:18:31] you have this conversations that makes sense.

[00:18:34] And you have to be kind of good

[00:18:37] at being able to read people.

[00:18:40] That's really the important thing.

[00:18:41] And so you really wanna be able to meet

[00:18:43] with those leadership people and really see like,

[00:18:46] can you feel like they're actually gonna deliver

[00:18:48] on their promises?

[00:18:49] Do you feel like they're actually stand up?

[00:18:51] You feel like everything works out well from that capacity.

[00:18:55] And if you have the hair standing on the back of your neck

[00:18:57] for any reason, you should just abort.

[00:19:00] Like don't even proceed.

[00:19:02] Like it could be on paper, everything looks great

[00:19:05] but you should follow your gut on it

[00:19:07] and don't, what if everything is dead?

[00:19:11] That's the other thing.

[00:19:12] Or you're never gonna get anything done.

[00:19:14] So you have to be able to say, okay

[00:19:16] I see everything good on paper.

[00:19:19] They've signed the agreement.

[00:19:21] I've met with their C level.

[00:19:23] Like I feel the Mormon Fuzzy's here.

[00:19:25] Like this is a good arrangement.

[00:19:26] We should be proceeding with this.

[00:19:28] And if not move on to the next one

[00:19:30] don't what if anything to death

[00:19:32] or you're never gonna move forward.

[00:19:34] So I mean, 80% of your business being education focused.

[00:19:38] How do you find new clients?

[00:19:39] Do you do a lot of educational file events

[00:19:43] or is it just by reputation

[00:19:45] or how does, yeah, how do you

[00:19:48] pull out into the pool and bring in new business?

[00:19:51] A lot of its reputation to be honest with you.

[00:19:54] Like in this industry

[00:19:55] you have to have a lot of reputation

[00:19:56] to be able to help out.

[00:19:59] A lot of it's also just knowing the right people.

[00:20:02] Networking events, those kinds of things.

[00:20:05] Education sessions, those kinds of things as well.

[00:20:08] Also help out, but it's just really

[00:20:11] being connected into that community

[00:20:13] really helps out from that perspective.

[00:20:17] Whatever niche that you decide to go into

[00:20:19] it's the same rules apply.

[00:20:21] If it's accounting, if it's insurance

[00:20:24] whatever the case may be

[00:20:25] you need to be really connected into that community.

[00:20:28] Just find something that's your focus

[00:20:30] and just be passionate about being in that community

[00:20:33] and the bit and the opportunities will grow from that.

[00:20:37] If you are just sending blanket emails out

[00:20:42] random social posts here and there

[00:20:46] it's not gonna land anywhere to be honest with you.

[00:20:48] You have to really be connected in that community

[00:20:50] to be able to vouch for you

[00:20:52] because as new players

[00:20:54] they see new players every day

[00:20:56] but to actually stand out from the pack

[00:20:59] you need to be able to say have that reputation.

[00:21:01] And if you don't you need to start building it

[00:21:04] by having that community approach.

[00:21:07] And that's really the big piece of it.

[00:21:09] And it's the same thing for any kind of market segment

[00:21:12] doesn't have to be just education

[00:21:14] just pick one, they have a community get into it.

[00:21:17] Fair.

[00:21:19] One of the things that you talked about earlier

[00:21:21] in this session and that community minds was

[00:21:25] and I'll ask the question a couple ways

[00:21:27] but it seems like you're more

[00:21:31] business development sales focused

[00:21:33] but like you're at that place now

[00:21:38] but you came from the technical side.

[00:21:41] So like you eventually got to that part of the business

[00:21:44] correct me if I'm wrong

[00:21:45] and then back to your point of

[00:21:49] hey, I don't wanna sell something if I can't deliver it

[00:21:52] that's usually where things ultimately melt down.

[00:21:54] I pitch, we've all in the MSP space

[00:21:57] seen this on the other side of the aisle.

[00:21:58] It's like, hey you sold me this super cool technology

[00:22:02] and never actually did what you told me it was going to

[00:22:04] like you kind of miss sold me here.

[00:22:06] So like I think that idea is what scares people

[00:22:10] about going and even offering new things, new bundles

[00:22:14] new technologies, new product lines, new services

[00:22:17] whatever you wanna categorize it as

[00:22:19] because they're worried that they haven't gotten it

[00:22:21] to a proficiency level.

[00:22:26] So now I guess the question is like

[00:22:29] how do you balance like getting something new

[00:22:31] and actually being able to package it

[00:22:33] and get it to a certain level, I guess.

[00:22:36] Well, I mean, it kind of goes back to like

[00:22:38] that whole thought partner initiative

[00:22:41] that's always a good one to use.

[00:22:44] If you have a client that you wanna bring

[00:22:48] on this new piece of service or offering

[00:22:50] and you might see the need there

[00:22:54] and you can then be able to go to that existing client

[00:22:56] and build that partnership of just saying like,

[00:22:59] hey I'm thinking about adding this

[00:23:00] I would like to run it past you

[00:23:02] and have you be like my guinea pig

[00:23:04] and test case and stuff like that.

[00:23:07] Benefit your organization.

[00:23:09] Here's the way that if you put in some time on this

[00:23:12] like the thing I'm gonna need back from you

[00:23:15] is just time for feedback and probably referral

[00:23:20] and understanding of like,

[00:23:22] hey this may not be smooth right out of the gate

[00:23:24] might be bumpy a little bit of that nature.

[00:23:28] And in turn what I'm gonna do for you

[00:23:31] is I'm gonna give you like a lifetime discount

[00:23:34] or the first year discount

[00:23:35] or whatever you wanna use to pitch to your thought partner

[00:23:39] but in essence that allows you to be able

[00:23:41] to perfect the secret sauce

[00:23:43] and any kind of new initiative

[00:23:45] without having to like get to the point

[00:23:48] where you're 100% ready before you start deploying.

[00:23:51] You still need to do some internal stuff

[00:23:53] to play around with and within your organization

[00:23:55] and stuff like that

[00:23:57] but you don't wanna wait till something

[00:23:58] it's like 100% before you even think about pitching it.

[00:24:01] So you wanna make sure that there is

[00:24:03] like some kind of thought partnership you have

[00:24:06] with maybe another client or something along that lines

[00:24:08] that can really give you some real world experience

[00:24:10] and thoughts on something.

[00:24:12] That's fair.

[00:24:15] You know like every three to five years

[00:24:17] like the industry comes up with new punch lines right?

[00:24:23] Like three years ago cybersecurity

[00:24:25] until like you couldn't sell any more products

[00:24:27] and then now it seems to be like this concept of AI

[00:24:31] although that seems to be very vague

[00:24:33] this you know what that means.

[00:24:36] Have you looked into AI?

[00:24:38] What do you think is there today on September 10th, 24?

[00:24:42] Is there even a business case for it or is it too soon?

[00:24:47] Well, so there's two areas obviously

[00:24:49] where you can look into it.

[00:24:51] There's the easy and then the more robust.

[00:24:54] So the easy area is just selling licenses

[00:24:57] co-pilot Gemini

[00:25:00] there's a bunch of different licenses

[00:25:01] you can sell out there

[00:25:02] and that at least gets you

[00:25:04] I don't know relevant in AI.

[00:25:07] You could sell some co-pilot

[00:25:09] you can talk about how co-pilot's awesome

[00:25:11] that kind of thing

[00:25:12] but you're not really like doing anything

[00:25:14] really transformative yet

[00:25:17] it's really just selling licenses for the most part.

[00:25:21] Some of the stuff that we're working on

[00:25:22] is more business transformation through AI

[00:25:25] and like working on like certain development projects

[00:25:28] with AI in order to like automate business processes

[00:25:32] that they have internally within our organization.

[00:25:34] That takes a little bit more effort.

[00:25:37] You really need to understand

[00:25:38] what the business process is first

[00:25:41] and really map it all out

[00:25:43] before you can really talk about automating it

[00:25:45] but that's kind of like the next steps

[00:25:47] that we're working on from that standpoint

[00:25:49] of helping organizations more embrace it

[00:25:55] and we'll see how it happens in the next six months

[00:25:58] with this whole AI bubble.

[00:26:00] We'll see if it ends up popping

[00:26:02] or if it ends up staying strong.

[00:26:04] I feel like there's still gonna be

[00:26:06] it's like Pandora's box

[00:26:07] the box is already open

[00:26:08] there's gonna be some form of AI

[00:26:11] how much more it's adopted

[00:26:12] how fast are organizations wanting to adopt it

[00:26:15] versus Fortune 500 to be seen a little bit

[00:26:19] but it's definitely here to stay

[00:26:21] and it's definitely in your face.

[00:26:23] So if you're not talking about it

[00:26:24] you're not being relevant

[00:26:26] and so that's really the big thing

[00:26:28] that you have to now really focus on

[00:26:30] is just hey we need to stay relevant

[00:26:33] so we need to have something

[00:26:34] to talk about when it comes down to AI

[00:26:36] even if it's just that it's here

[00:26:38] and there are some options

[00:26:39] you can be able to get client

[00:26:41] if we're not really like at that level

[00:26:43] to do anything like a business process

[00:26:45] or a business transformation process.

[00:26:47] Sure, I mean it sounds like either

[00:26:51] are you using an outside partner

[00:26:53] or do you have internal people

[00:26:55] that are in like a DevOps or coding position

[00:27:00] because like some of this stuff

[00:27:01] you're talking about right

[00:27:02] to take the off the shelf solution

[00:27:03] and like get it to do different things

[00:27:06] isn't like quick point and go right

[00:27:09] it requires building things.

[00:27:12] Sure, yeah we have some DevOps people

[00:27:14] that we end up billing out for that kind of stuff

[00:27:17] so yeah there's some internal resources like that

[00:27:20] there's also some really smart people

[00:27:22] that work for us that are even on the technical side

[00:27:25] that like to dabble in that arena

[00:27:26] so like gives them an avenue

[00:27:28] to kind of stretch their wings kind of a thing.

[00:27:31] Sure, I know a lot of MSPs like

[00:27:35] you know lightly touch on things just from a

[00:27:38] yeah historically like scripting

[00:27:40] and RMM that kind of stuff right

[00:27:42] but like most MSPs don't have like a dedicated coder on staff

[00:27:47] I mean maybe the bigger ones do

[00:27:49] but the average MSP probably doesn't have that role filled.

[00:27:54] Yeah so then you backfill with some part time role

[00:27:58] like it doesn't have to be a full time

[00:28:00] like right now most MSPs have an RMM and they do scripting

[00:28:05] there's not like a full time person

[00:28:07] they just have a person that likes to do it on the side

[00:28:10] so that doesn't mean that you have to

[00:28:12] only pigeon hold them into one area

[00:28:15] but make sure it's like something

[00:28:16] that you can continue to deliver

[00:28:18] scripting is not really client facing

[00:28:20] so it's not really you know as in their face

[00:28:24] so just make sure if you are trying to look

[00:28:27] at another avenue whether it's

[00:28:29] doing even telephony let's say

[00:28:32] you know you need to have some kind of people

[00:28:35] to be able to even if it's on a partial time gig

[00:28:37] that they can help out onto it

[00:28:39] they can at least be able to deliver something.

[00:28:41] No that's fair.

[00:28:44] How often Sam because

[00:28:46] you know it's in all the forums

[00:28:48] and the Facebooks and the reddits

[00:28:51] and the discords and the Slack groups right

[00:28:54] people are just like this product versus that product

[00:28:57] this vendor versus that contract term

[00:28:59] like how often are you evaluating a vendor change

[00:29:03] like I'll give you two categories

[00:29:05] I already have something in place

[00:29:07] and like I'm gonna replace it

[00:29:09] or I'm just evaluating a net new

[00:29:12] that I don't have current.

[00:29:15] Sure net new every year

[00:29:18] like there's nothing to stop you for net new

[00:29:21] there's always something net new

[00:29:22] that maybe you're not offering

[00:29:24] that's not gonna compete with something else

[00:29:26] that you're offering

[00:29:27] or it's something else that you currently are utilizing

[00:29:29] so you need to be looking at that every year

[00:29:31] if you're not you're just gonna stay behind

[00:29:35] if that it could be even shorter than that

[00:29:37] could be every six months

[00:29:39] because there's new things that are key and credit

[00:29:42] just cause you're looking at it

[00:29:43] doesn't mean you're buying it

[00:29:45] and fully implementing it

[00:29:46] but you have to keep your eye open

[00:29:48] for different things

[00:29:49] like particularly now in this whole AI perspective

[00:29:52] like there's AI integration into service tickets

[00:29:55] AI integration for this

[00:29:56] AI like if you're not even looking at any of that stuff

[00:29:59] you should be

[00:30:01] just because you can adopt a lot of that internal AI mechanism

[00:30:04] to be able to supercharge your operations

[00:30:07] and some of it is garbage

[00:30:08] I'll be completely honest with you

[00:30:10] and some of it's actually pretty cool

[00:30:13] but then you go to the next start of the evaluation

[00:30:16] is the juice worth of squeeze

[00:30:18] so like you have to make a value proposition

[00:30:22] on your return on investment

[00:30:23] of like I'm gonna spend this much money

[00:30:26] per person per month on this license

[00:30:29] what is that gonna really return back on investment

[00:30:32] is it worth it

[00:30:33] do I need to license everybody

[00:30:35] can I just license a subset of people

[00:30:38] those kind of things to make that evaluation

[00:30:42] and then I always recommend you start slow

[00:30:45] like put it on for a couple of people

[00:30:46] try it out have them use it

[00:30:49] but you have to get on their case

[00:30:51] because so many people are resistant to change

[00:30:55] though like you have to like

[00:30:56] if you're gonna turn on let's say

[00:30:57] it's some subscription

[00:30:58] and you're gonna turn onto your sales folks

[00:31:00] you have to get on their case constantly

[00:31:03] about like hey are you using it

[00:31:04] hey are you using it

[00:31:05] well no, no not really

[00:31:06] it was like I don't care

[00:31:07] the next thing you're doing is you're using this thing

[00:31:09] like I need you to use it

[00:31:10] and put it into production

[00:31:12] for me to see if it's worth us expanding on this or not

[00:31:16] and if they're really hesitant of using it

[00:31:19] because it sucks or it's clunky

[00:31:20] or the training is a pain

[00:31:23] like that just automatically tells you

[00:31:24] like hey I don't need to push this out any further

[00:31:26] like it's done

[00:31:27] we're just gonna get rid of it all together

[00:31:30] and a lot of the vendors are then gonna push back

[00:31:32] and they're gonna say well we could do trading sessions

[00:31:33] with people like no, no, no

[00:31:34] my people don't have time for that

[00:31:35] like if it's not that easy to handle

[00:31:37] and it's not giving me that much in that return

[00:31:40] this is too much investment on my side

[00:31:42] money and indirect costs

[00:31:45] like those are the things

[00:31:46] that I always tell people

[00:31:47] like everybody just looks at the dollar amount

[00:31:50] of what something costs

[00:31:51] they don't look at the indirect cost

[00:31:53] of training, implementation

[00:31:55] how do you write policy and procedure

[00:31:57] and I always tell everybody

[00:31:58] if all thing you can think about is dollars and cents

[00:32:02] then apply your hourly cost onto it

[00:32:05] like what do you as a business owner

[00:32:08] cause you do cost the business money

[00:32:10] yeah you may take money out at the end of the year

[00:32:12] that kind of thing but you have a base salary

[00:32:15] you have benefits

[00:32:16] you have a list of

[00:32:17] calculate what your base cost is to the organization

[00:32:20] to just have you there

[00:32:22] and multiply that number of hours

[00:32:24] as you have to work on this thing to implement

[00:32:26] plus the actual cost of the actual unit

[00:32:29] whatever it is per month or whatever the case may be

[00:32:32] take that total cost

[00:32:34] and say how much return am I getting

[00:32:36] on that total cost

[00:32:37] if you can't think of it that way

[00:32:40] then you have to look at a time mechanism

[00:32:43] but I always say just put some dollars around it

[00:32:45] you'll realize whether something is worth it or not

[00:32:47] and so like if implementation

[00:32:49] is so high on something

[00:32:53] and then it triples out the cost

[00:32:55] then you probably don't want to move ahead with it

[00:32:57] but if the implementation is here

[00:32:58] and the cost is here

[00:33:00] and it actually returns an investment up to here

[00:33:02] then it's worth looking into and trying to do

[00:33:04] and that's on net and new

[00:33:07] existing stuff

[00:33:09] usually it's anywhere between like three to five years

[00:33:11] is a reevaluation on existing stuff

[00:33:14] it just all depends on like other factors though

[00:33:17] so like you know existing stuff

[00:33:20] you always want to evaluate every three to five years for price

[00:33:22] and features and a lot of other fun stuff

[00:33:26] if there's something game changing in the market

[00:33:28] maybe you move that up a little bit

[00:33:30] but for the most part it's three to five

[00:33:33] is what you evaluate

[00:33:35] and the bigger thing is like when you're looking at changing

[00:33:38] RMM your PSA

[00:33:40] any of those big core elements

[00:33:43] your documentation system

[00:33:45] you always have to figure out

[00:33:47] that as much as they promise you

[00:33:49] they're not going to transfer data

[00:33:50] they're not going to happen

[00:33:51] everything's going to be perfect

[00:33:53] there's going to be some rebuilt process part of this

[00:33:56] so again it goes back to is the juice worth the squeeze

[00:33:59] like changing your entire PSA

[00:34:03] is it worth making that change

[00:34:04] for having this one report

[00:34:06] that you can run on occasion

[00:34:09] versus all of the retraining

[00:34:11] all of the data manipulation

[00:34:13] all of the other stuff that has to go into it

[00:34:16] all the integrations

[00:34:17] you have to set back up and everything

[00:34:19] is it worth it

[00:34:21] if it comes out to a financial exercise

[00:34:23] you have to then say okay

[00:34:25] the cost per year I'm saving with this PSA is X

[00:34:30] the amount of money that time

[00:34:32] that I have to put into it is Y

[00:34:35] what is that return

[00:34:36] when is my break even point

[00:34:37] is it two years

[00:34:39] is it five years

[00:34:40] is it ten years

[00:34:42] but usually you want to be anywhere between

[00:34:43] like a one half two year mark

[00:34:46] on a break even point on any of that stuff

[00:34:48] obviously if you can get better

[00:34:50] the better

[00:34:51] but if you end up going like

[00:34:52] your break evens like

[00:34:54] the end of two years

[00:34:55] or three years

[00:34:56] you're pushing longer than that

[00:34:57] then it's really not worth doing

[00:34:59] in those cases

[00:35:00] you want to have your break even point

[00:35:03] right around in that

[00:35:04] like less than two year mark

[00:35:06] but if you're not

[00:35:07] you're not evaluating it from that standpoint

[00:35:09] that's the other thing

[00:35:10] you have to evaluate too

[00:35:11] of just like

[00:35:11] okay this is like maybe

[00:35:13] 10 cents cheaper per unit

[00:35:16] then what I'm paying right now

[00:35:18] but that 10 cents cheaper

[00:35:20] also all the time that it takes

[00:35:22] for me to break even on this

[00:35:24] it's going to take three years

[00:35:26] at the new rate

[00:35:27] for me to do it

[00:35:28] it's not worth me making this gigantic change

[00:35:31] for that

[00:35:32] if the features are exactly the same

[00:35:35] so there's a lot of people who do that

[00:35:37] jumping for like 10 cents cheaper

[00:35:39] one place or 50 cents cheaper

[00:35:41] but you got to do the evaluation

[00:35:43] financially and just look at it

[00:35:45] and say like

[00:35:45] where's your break even

[00:35:46] where does it end up saving you money

[00:35:49] is that an appropriate timeline

[00:35:51] and if it's not

[00:35:52] and it's really stretched out

[00:35:53] it's really not worth making that change either

[00:35:55] no that's fair

[00:35:57] that's good advice

[00:35:57] because

[00:35:58] you know

[00:35:59] everybody's always selling you

[00:36:00] the next best thing right

[00:36:02] I mean

[00:36:03] I'm sure you've seen it

[00:36:04] throughout your journey

[00:36:05] but

[00:36:06] how many times have you know

[00:36:07] back to the juice worth to squeeze right

[00:36:09] how about you sold me a vision

[00:36:11] that never happened either

[00:36:12] right like

[00:36:13] single pane of glass

[00:36:14] you probably read that 10 billion time

[00:36:16] did ever happen

[00:36:17] I don't think so

[00:36:18] there's 18 pains of glass

[00:36:19] I don't know where this single thing came from

[00:36:20] but it was a great marketing line at the time

[00:36:24] yeah

[00:36:24] I mean like it's

[00:36:25] it's kind of like what they want to do

[00:36:27] is always one single pane of glass

[00:36:29] blah blah blah blah

[00:36:30] I mean like it's

[00:36:31] it's a good marketing ploy

[00:36:32] it still works to be honest with you

[00:36:34] I mean like a lot of people like it

[00:36:36] because they like the

[00:36:38] consolidate

[00:36:38] a lot of people like the consolidate

[00:36:40] their their billing

[00:36:41] consolidate their resources

[00:36:43] consolidate where they go for alerting

[00:36:45] you know it's a

[00:36:46] it's a

[00:36:47] it's a definitely a tactic

[00:36:48] but

[00:36:50] that consolidation piece

[00:36:51] it just all depends on like

[00:36:53] what are you getting out of it

[00:36:54] and what is it going to

[00:36:54] be the investment for it

[00:36:56] so yeah

[00:36:57] you can see it all one single pane of glass

[00:36:59] but

[00:36:59] requires

[00:37:00] 50 hours of you and an engineer

[00:37:02] beat your head that it to make it work

[00:37:05] it's okay I'll go to two different tabs

[00:37:06] it's fine

[00:37:07] yeah fair

[00:37:09] so

[00:37:10] how often do you send somebody other than yourself

[00:37:13] to

[00:37:13] an industry event

[00:37:15] like let's say

[00:37:15] somebody from your technical team

[00:37:17] or somebody from your sales team right

[00:37:19] so that they can

[00:37:20] start to like

[00:37:21] hear it firsthand

[00:37:22] rather than trickle down the lane

[00:37:25] yeah sure

[00:37:26] yeah and the backtrack for a second there

[00:37:28] it's not really related

[00:37:29] but yes your assumption was right

[00:37:31] I my background is technical

[00:37:33] but they got to a point where

[00:37:37] when in any organization

[00:37:38] always recommend this to like

[00:37:41] there's gonna be a point

[00:37:42] in your organization

[00:37:42] when you as you grow

[00:37:43] you're gonna have too many like

[00:37:44] too many nerds

[00:37:46] there's gotta be a guy that goes out there

[00:37:48] and talks to people

[00:37:49] and you have to be that guy sometimes

[00:37:51] even if you don't like being that guy

[00:37:54] you have to learn to be that guy

[00:37:56] or girl or whomever

[00:37:58] or hire a person to do that

[00:38:00] for me it was

[00:38:02] hey

[00:38:03] at this pace

[00:38:04] I'm just gonna be

[00:38:05] along with the rest of the other nerds out there

[00:38:07] so I have to change my

[00:38:09] my persona

[00:38:11] to be more personable business focused

[00:38:13] and that's kind of like my

[00:38:15] my life story

[00:38:17] but not everybody can do that

[00:38:19] but it's helpful because

[00:38:21] it gives me the ability to detect BS

[00:38:23] so like

[00:38:24] anybody's telling me any technical BS

[00:38:26] I'm like no no no no

[00:38:27] like I used to do that stuff

[00:38:29] I knew how long it took

[00:38:30] like that's just BS

[00:38:31] I'm out of here

[00:38:32] so like when I'm doing partner engagements

[00:38:34] super valuable

[00:38:35] because when I'm partnering with somebody

[00:38:37] and they're saying

[00:38:37] oh no you know that thing

[00:38:39] that job's gonna take another

[00:38:40] it'll take us like 25 hours

[00:38:42] like no it's not

[00:38:43] it's not that complicated

[00:38:43] just do this

[00:38:44] you do this

[00:38:44] this this this

[00:38:45] and I was like

[00:38:46] oh

[00:38:46] you know what you're talking about

[00:38:47] like yeah

[00:38:48] I know what I'm talking about

[00:38:49] so

[00:38:49] take that quote

[00:38:50] cut in half

[00:38:51] but anyway

[00:38:52] sorry go ahead

[00:38:53] you were saying about

[00:38:54] going to trade shows

[00:38:55] yeah yeah like

[00:38:56] how often do you

[00:38:58] I'm like

[00:38:59] clearly you have attended events

[00:39:00] because you've

[00:39:01] you've had enough to be able to tell people

[00:39:02] what to do

[00:39:03] what not to do

[00:39:04] I've been around the

[00:39:06] the conference circuit yeah

[00:39:08] how often you send somebody else

[00:39:09] to get to absorb first thing

[00:39:12] sure yeah

[00:39:13] I mean like it just depends on

[00:39:15] like a couple of different factors

[00:39:16] so one factor is

[00:39:21] is it

[00:39:21] material that speaks

[00:39:23] specifically to that

[00:39:25] versus just

[00:39:27] just randomness

[00:39:28] yeah

[00:39:28] because like

[00:39:29] you know my service

[00:39:30] like I have many different department heads

[00:39:32] so I have a

[00:39:33] department head

[00:39:34] that does project management

[00:39:35] I have a department that does

[00:39:36] service

[00:39:38] and I have another

[00:39:39] department head

[00:39:40] for sales

[00:39:41] so it's really just like

[00:39:43] I need to send them to conferences

[00:39:44] that really speak to them

[00:39:46] or at least has agenda items

[00:39:48] that really speak to them

[00:39:49] the conferences that are just

[00:39:51] generic conferences

[00:39:52] they're hard for me to wrangle

[00:39:54] their attention

[00:39:55] into the one thing that I need

[00:39:57] them to focus on

[00:39:58] yeah

[00:39:58] so it's really identifying

[00:40:00] the right conferences

[00:40:01] to send them to

[00:40:02] and a lot of that has to be

[00:40:04] you have to go to it yourself

[00:40:06] to really like

[00:40:07] see it

[00:40:08] because an agenda is just an agenda

[00:40:09] until you actually go there

[00:40:11] and actually

[00:40:12] be a part of it to say

[00:40:13] okay

[00:40:14] I see how it's working

[00:40:15] how it runs

[00:40:16] what kind of concepts come out of this

[00:40:18] be really good for this person

[00:40:20] I know their personality

[00:40:22] but this would work out well

[00:40:24] so outside of just like

[00:40:25] content

[00:40:26] you also want to look at

[00:40:27] the conference flow itself

[00:40:30] you know

[00:40:30] how they deliver their content

[00:40:32] how the networking sessions work

[00:40:34] how does that work

[00:40:34] because

[00:40:35] if I have an introverted

[00:40:37] project management guy

[00:40:39] and I'm sending him

[00:40:40] to a super social conference

[00:40:42] he's not going to get

[00:40:43] anything out of that

[00:40:44] it's going to be just

[00:40:45] completely waste of time

[00:40:46] so it's really about

[00:40:47] like how it works

[00:40:48] is very important too

[00:40:49] so by going through the paces yourself

[00:40:53] the other times

[00:40:54] where I really want to use them

[00:40:55] to be honest with you

[00:40:56] is like

[00:40:57] if I'm sitting there saying

[00:40:58] like hey we should go left

[00:41:00] and they're like

[00:41:00] I don't know

[00:41:01] they're still struggling

[00:41:02] with the idea

[00:41:03] I was like you're going to this conference

[00:41:04] and it's because

[00:41:06] you're gonna have to learn

[00:41:07] that you do have to go left

[00:41:08] and here's a reason why

[00:41:09] you should go left

[00:41:10] like I'm not doing a good job

[00:41:11] demonstrating it

[00:41:12] or explaining it to you

[00:41:13] but I want you to go to that conference

[00:41:16] and it's really more of a team building

[00:41:17] like kind of like exercise

[00:41:19] because yeah at the end of the day

[00:41:20] I have ultimate veto power

[00:41:22] I could just tell them

[00:41:23] we're going left

[00:41:24] I don't really care

[00:41:25] that's it

[00:41:26] and shove it down their throat

[00:41:27] and yeah every day

[00:41:28] I have that right

[00:41:30] but I try to use that sparingly

[00:41:32] as much as I can

[00:41:33] just because like at the end of the day

[00:41:36] you want people on your team

[00:41:38] that want to follow you

[00:41:39] moving forward

[00:41:40] and charging up that hill

[00:41:41] and if you're constantly

[00:41:43] just shoving stuff down their throat

[00:41:45] they're not going to believe you

[00:41:46] they're not going to have faith in you

[00:41:48] and so sometimes faith is something

[00:41:50] that has to be developed

[00:41:51] but you have to be able

[00:41:52] to give them an idea

[00:41:54] and it's very much like

[00:41:55] the movie Inception

[00:41:56] if you don't watch that movie Inception

[00:41:57] and learn a lot from it

[00:41:59] you should learn tons from it

[00:42:00] because the best ideas

[00:42:02] that people have

[00:42:03] that you're trying to get them

[00:42:04] to follow you to do

[00:42:06] is inception ideas

[00:42:07] not ideas that you're telling them

[00:42:09] because then they fight it

[00:42:10] all the way through

[00:42:11] but if you plan a seed in their head

[00:42:13] and you send them to a conference

[00:42:14] and it further grows and develops from there

[00:42:17] and it makes it seem like

[00:42:18] they came up with the idea

[00:42:20] you're getting the agenda across

[00:42:21] who cares who came up with the idea

[00:42:23] we're moving forward

[00:42:24] or charging the hill

[00:42:25] I don't need the credit for it

[00:42:27] like it doesn't matter

[00:42:28] but as long as they're able to come

[00:42:30] to that realization on their own

[00:42:32] then it's more solidified

[00:42:34] it's more bought in

[00:42:35] it's more moving forward

[00:42:37] rather than me just shoving down an idea

[00:42:38] down their throat

[00:42:40] and not to say that doesn't happen

[00:42:41] if those happen on occasion

[00:42:42] where it's like

[00:42:43] I don't have the luxury of time to do that

[00:42:46] but I try like I said

[00:42:47] to play that card very sparingly

[00:42:49] but I know I always can play that card

[00:42:50] Yeah, carrot versus stick

[00:42:52] All right, let me flip to another one

[00:42:54] I talked about this scenario

[00:42:57] several times since a month or two ago

[00:43:00] but as you know

[00:43:02] as a guy from Maryland

[00:43:03] northeast right

[00:43:04] now I want to see

[00:43:06] what your hypothetical conversation

[00:43:08] would look like in this case

[00:43:11] So, crowdstrike, right?

[00:43:14] You selected crowdstrike as a vendor in your stack

[00:43:17] as part of your deliverable

[00:43:20] and people who adopt the package

[00:43:22] that you're selling, right?

[00:43:24] Obviously, you know what happened, right?

[00:43:26] And oops, right?

[00:43:27] That's for the vendor side

[00:43:29] and now your end customer

[00:43:31] will pass a point of remediation, right?

[00:43:34] Everybody got affected

[00:43:35] you got everybody back to workable point

[00:43:36] which probably isn't great

[00:43:39] but you know, you dealt with it the best you could

[00:43:41] Now your end customer

[00:43:42] comes to you

[00:43:43] the check signer from your end customer

[00:43:45] comes to you and says Sam

[00:43:47] Hey man, saw the news

[00:43:48] I understand, right?

[00:43:49] Wasn't you, you didn't

[00:43:51] you know, cause the problem

[00:43:53] and a lot of people were down at once

[00:43:55] got it

[00:43:55] but we have no idea

[00:43:57] why you selected this vendor

[00:43:59] You told us it was the best

[00:44:00] and you know, we just went with your recommendation

[00:44:02] How are you going to make me whole, right?

[00:44:06] You know, my company was affected

[00:44:07] You know, we had to deal with all this nonsense

[00:44:09] There was a lot of pain and suffering

[00:44:11] What are you going to do for me to make it right?

[00:44:13] What are you saying in that conversation?

[00:44:16] Sure

[00:44:16] I mean

[00:44:17] a little off the cuff there

[00:44:20] but I'll have to come up with something

[00:44:21] I mean listen, I just

[00:44:22] No, no, no, no, no

[00:44:23] You're good, you're good

[00:44:24] So, I mean I have a lot of information

[00:44:27] on this cross-track

[00:44:28] except for the post too much stuff

[00:44:29] on LinkedIn about it

[00:44:30] and to be honest with you

[00:44:31] my frustration about it

[00:44:33] and so like from that perspective

[00:44:36] you know, I'm going to tell the client

[00:44:37] as a whole and just like

[00:44:39] hey listen, you know

[00:44:41] us making you whole

[00:44:42] we have demonstrated that

[00:44:44] by going above and beyond

[00:44:45] and trying to make sure we take care of that

[00:44:47] address the issue

[00:44:49] We addressed the issue

[00:44:50] that wasn't caused by our team

[00:44:52] was caused completely by this other team

[00:44:55] who we literally came in

[00:44:58] were very invested

[00:44:59] trained our entire team over

[00:45:02] and they have

[00:45:03] bright and true cybersecurity methods that work

[00:45:06] and in essence

[00:45:07] they're the Cisco of the cybersecurity world

[00:45:09] and so that's the reason why people pick them

[00:45:12] and that's why people love them

[00:45:13] and that's why it's a very good brand

[00:45:15] and name to utilize

[00:45:17] and they've been doing a fantastic job

[00:45:19] However

[00:45:21] this, in my opinion

[00:45:24] the cause

[00:45:25] and the reaction to it

[00:45:27] is unacceptable by any standards

[00:45:30] and there are even though

[00:45:31] there's a lot of organizations who think

[00:45:33] they're too big to fail

[00:45:35] we don't believe in that

[00:45:37] we believe that an organization

[00:45:39] has an ultimate responsibility

[00:45:41] to every client that it has

[00:45:43] whether big or small

[00:45:45] it has an ultimate responsibility to it

[00:45:47] to make sure that things are safeguarded

[00:45:49] and protected

[00:45:51] and they obviously grew too fast

[00:45:54] and they didn't really have proper security controls

[00:45:57] unlike us

[00:45:59] which we actually make sure that we run patches

[00:46:02] locally internally in our systems

[00:46:03] before we push them out to your site, client

[00:46:06] that's why you don't get patches the same day

[00:46:08] you get patches like a week or two delayed

[00:46:10] because we run them internally

[00:46:11] make sure they don't break anything

[00:46:12] before we push them out to your system

[00:46:14] really the place where we've made you whole

[00:46:16] is we have made sure that

[00:46:18] even though this was not caused by you

[00:46:19] not caused by us

[00:46:20] we went above and beyond

[00:46:22] and got you back up and running

[00:46:23] now how are we

[00:46:24] the conversation should really be

[00:46:26] how are we protecting you

[00:46:28] from this not happening again

[00:46:30] and that's really our focus going forward here

[00:46:32] and our focus around that

[00:46:34] is we have switched vendors to XYZ

[00:46:38] and XYZ is in the Gardner Magic Quadrant

[00:46:41] it is like the next brand

[00:46:43] from that perspective

[00:46:45] and to be honest with you

[00:46:46] we would have stayed with CrowdStrike

[00:46:47] through all this

[00:46:48] but we just didn't like

[00:46:50] how they handled this entirety

[00:46:52] of this situation

[00:46:53] from cause to effect

[00:46:56] and from that

[00:46:57] we have decided to make the safeguard

[00:47:00] you as our client

[00:47:01] and all of our clients going forward

[00:47:03] the painful process

[00:47:05] of relearning, training

[00:47:07] and re-adapting all of our systems

[00:47:09] to a new product

[00:47:10] because we

[00:47:12] unlike them

[00:47:13] safeguard our clients

[00:47:14] from any potential type of issue

[00:47:16] as much as we can avoid

[00:47:17] and we take that responsibility

[00:47:18] very close to heart

[00:47:20] that's why we're investing

[00:47:21] all this time and energy

[00:47:23] to do this complete switch

[00:47:25] and for you

[00:47:25] from the endpoint perspective

[00:47:27] you don't see any difference

[00:47:28] it's going to be silent

[00:47:30] and furthermore

[00:47:31] your costs are going to be

[00:47:32] about the same

[00:47:34] and so we are going to make sure

[00:47:35] that happens

[00:47:36] to more focus on not making you hold

[00:47:39] that's already been done

[00:47:39] we took care of that

[00:47:40] six months ago

[00:47:41] or three months ago

[00:47:42] what we're talking about now

[00:47:44] is preventing this

[00:47:45] from ever happening again

[00:47:47] even if it was caused by a third party

[00:47:49] and this is how we do that

[00:47:52] okay I mean

[00:47:53] but you don't have control

[00:47:55] right

[00:47:55] like I appreciate you

[00:47:56] that you're doing due diligence

[00:47:57] and you're training your team

[00:47:58] and you're switching vendors

[00:47:59] and that's great

[00:48:01] I surely don't want to pay

[00:48:02] any more than I already have

[00:48:03] because I think I'm paying a lot

[00:48:04] but that being said

[00:48:07] you don't have control

[00:48:08] of these vendors upstairs

[00:48:09] right

[00:48:10] what if the vendor you select

[00:48:13] has a similar issue

[00:48:14] how do you

[00:48:15] you know like

[00:48:15] what is the strategy

[00:48:17] to prevent the

[00:48:18] delay

[00:48:19] and

[00:48:19] that vendor having a problem

[00:48:21] and us reducing downtime

[00:48:24] right

[00:48:24] like I got a business to run

[00:48:25] I need my people to work

[00:48:28] is that

[00:48:28] spare computers

[00:48:29] is that

[00:48:30] how do we get back to working faster

[00:48:34] sure

[00:48:35] yeah

[00:48:36] so part of that is

[00:48:37] taking the same kind of approach

[00:48:39] that we've done

[00:48:40] for just even Microsoft patches

[00:48:42] and stuff like that

[00:48:43] to be able to go ahead

[00:48:45] and like

[00:48:45] apply those internally

[00:48:46] onto our lab environment

[00:48:48] to test

[00:48:49] before they even hit

[00:48:50] your production environment

[00:48:51] so we're even talking about

[00:48:53] free something even happening

[00:48:54] by having it blow up our lab

[00:48:57] before it blows you guys up

[00:48:58] from that standpoint

[00:49:00] from a remediation

[00:49:01] but you're doing that

[00:49:03] with CrowdStrike

[00:49:04] it seems like they were

[00:49:05] like they had control of this

[00:49:08] updating thing

[00:49:09] right

[00:49:09] like so I don't know if you had

[00:49:10] that

[00:49:11] you know

[00:49:11] I don't know if you have the

[00:49:12] the lever to pool

[00:49:13] or not in that case

[00:49:15] yeah

[00:49:16] in that situation with CrowdStrike

[00:49:17] we did not

[00:49:18] but obviously because of CrowdStrike

[00:49:20] that is a lever now

[00:49:22] that needs to be in place

[00:49:23] for anybody to be

[00:49:24] a trusted vendor

[00:49:26] for us to utilize

[00:49:27] we need to make sure

[00:49:28] that those safeguards are in place

[00:49:30] and if that lever

[00:49:31] does not exist

[00:49:32] and they don't need to be a part

[00:49:34] of our product line

[00:49:36] to be able to go ahead

[00:49:37] and potentially damage our clients

[00:49:40] so it's

[00:49:40] one of those new factors

[00:49:42] that we have to now come in

[00:49:44] of just saying

[00:49:44] when we evaluate a product

[00:49:46] or evaluate a vendor

[00:49:48] can we have that level of control

[00:49:49] or not

[00:49:50] and if it's not

[00:49:51] and we're totally beholden to them

[00:49:53] it's part of our evaluation process

[00:49:55] now making sure

[00:49:56] that they're not

[00:49:56] part of our vendor stack

[00:49:57] just because then at that point

[00:49:59] they're not going to be there

[00:50:00] to back up anything

[00:50:02] I mean look at CrowdStrike

[00:50:03] they didn't help us out at all

[00:50:04] through this process

[00:50:06] but they sent us a five dollar

[00:50:08] coffee gift card

[00:50:09] that didn't work

[00:50:10] which also wasn't a great look

[00:50:12] for them too

[00:50:12] am I allowed to decide

[00:50:14] what the replacement is here

[00:50:16] because like I just

[00:50:17] you know

[00:50:17] I'm curious

[00:50:19] do I need to get more involved

[00:50:20] in the vendor selection

[00:50:21] because again

[00:50:22] all I'm trying to do

[00:50:24] is not be in the same position next to

[00:50:27] sure

[00:50:27] yeah

[00:50:27] I mean

[00:50:28] if you would like to be a part

[00:50:30] of that process

[00:50:32] I'm more than happy

[00:50:33] to have you part of that committee

[00:50:34] keep in mind though

[00:50:36] that that process

[00:50:37] and ultimate selection

[00:50:38] still has to be done by us

[00:50:39] we'd love to get your impact

[00:50:41] and we'll have to get your input

[00:50:43] but at the end of the day

[00:50:44] if we're supporting it

[00:50:45] we have to be the one making that call

[00:50:47] at the end of the day

[00:50:48] because we're ultimately responsible for it

[00:50:50] you're paying us to be that

[00:50:51] person to be responsible

[00:50:53] but if you'd like to be a

[00:50:54] member of it

[00:50:55] we don't have to be

[00:50:56] you're more than welcome

[00:50:57] to have some additional feedback

[00:50:59] before we make final selections

[00:51:00] from that standpoint

[00:51:02] but going back to your other question

[00:51:04] about like how do we safeguard

[00:51:05] so

[00:51:06] there are a lot of preventative

[00:51:07] strategies that we can try

[00:51:08] to start looking at doing

[00:51:10] those being like

[00:51:12] whether it's a spare machine

[00:51:13] or more like image-based backups

[00:51:15] of all your machines

[00:51:16] from that standpoint

[00:51:17] which is another way that we can also talk about

[00:51:20] like other cybersecurity

[00:51:21] preventative strategy

[00:51:22] because as we always say

[00:51:23] backup is our last line of defense

[00:51:26] though even if let's say

[00:51:27] we had Crypto Locker

[00:51:29] hit onto a machine

[00:51:31] yeah it would still give you

[00:51:32] about the same kind of like

[00:51:33] experience

[00:51:34] that one machine is down

[00:51:36] yeah we've contained it everywhere else

[00:51:38] but that one machine is down

[00:51:39] and it takes time to build

[00:51:40] that machine back up again

[00:51:41] for the same strategies

[00:51:43] we use for that

[00:51:44] we can then apply on to a more global scale

[00:51:47] for your environment

[00:51:48] as that secondary protection

[00:51:51] and we're killing two birds at one stone

[00:51:53] preventing a thing from a crowd strike

[00:51:55] not necessarily to happen

[00:51:56] although we've done a lot of preventative strategies

[00:51:58] to make sure we're picking the right vendors

[00:52:00] but should it happen again

[00:52:01] how do we recover quickly

[00:52:04] as our last line of defense

[00:52:05] after if case it gets through

[00:52:07] all of the other preventative steps

[00:52:08] that we have in place

[00:52:10] okay

[00:52:12] alright I mean

[00:52:13] I've been reading a bunch of stuff online

[00:52:15] after all this came out

[00:52:16] like I'm sure everybody else has

[00:52:18] and a lot of people are saying

[00:52:19] that we should revert everything back

[00:52:22] to prem based technology

[00:52:23] and like maybe move away from the cloud

[00:52:26] what's your opinion

[00:52:30] well obviously you can definitely go down that route

[00:52:32] if you choose to

[00:52:35] there's nothing that stops you from doing that

[00:52:37] there's still software and licenses

[00:52:38] that allow you to do that

[00:52:39] however

[00:52:41] completely being disconnected from the cloud

[00:52:44] I don't think is a possibility nowadays

[00:52:46] I don't think any manufacturer will allow you

[00:52:49] let me look at Microsoft

[00:52:50] yeah you could buy versions of Office

[00:52:52] that you can install on there

[00:52:54] but even they dial back to the cloud to get updates

[00:52:57] look at Office 365 now

[00:52:59] as a completely cloud based subscription process

[00:53:03] that cloud is here

[00:53:04] and it's gonna continue to just continue to consume

[00:53:07] and even if it's like you did on premise

[00:53:09] like

[00:53:10] let's say Symantec

[00:53:12] we're gonna go real old school

[00:53:13] we'll go back to that

[00:53:15] it still phones home

[00:53:17] into a cloud to get updates

[00:53:19] to apply locally

[00:53:20] and eventually push out to all your machines

[00:53:22] so this crowd strike issue

[00:53:25] doesn't necessarily say that like

[00:53:26] oh we should go away from the cloud

[00:53:28] it just says that we need to do a better job

[00:53:31] at not trusting these larger companies

[00:53:33] because as they are larger and as they grow

[00:53:37] we all even us included

[00:53:38] all had that understanding

[00:53:40] and you as well client

[00:53:41] that hey you know they're a big company

[00:53:43] they're gonna be able to double check their work

[00:53:45] and make sure things are working well

[00:53:46] and we cannot take that risk

[00:53:49] we cannot take that risk

[00:53:50] because we know that this is the way they react

[00:53:52] but we need to do a step better

[00:53:55] and you know we've already taken steps like that

[00:53:57] because obviously we have a secondary cloud backup

[00:54:01] for our Office 365

[00:54:02] that we currently have for you client

[00:54:04] and that secondary cloud backup

[00:54:06] is in a totally separate cloud

[00:54:08] and why is that?

[00:54:09] Because we know Microsoft is a big organization

[00:54:12] and not too big to fail

[00:54:13] maybe they may make an oops too

[00:54:15] but we need to safeguard that

[00:54:17] we put that stuff in a separate third party cloud

[00:54:20] so that any event Microsoft's having a problem

[00:54:22] when they wipe away the backups too

[00:54:24] that's okay we'll restore back from this third party cloud

[00:54:28] though while we can't necessarily negate

[00:54:30] 100% of the risk

[00:54:32] we're trying to mitigate it as much as possible

[00:54:35] and there's a lot of preventative steps

[00:54:37] that we put in place because of this

[00:54:39] and now we have recovery steps on top of it

[00:54:41] and being able to safeguard our environment

[00:54:43] should it ever happen again.

[00:54:45] All right one last thing then

[00:54:47] like I appreciate you got a lot of clients

[00:54:50] and I'm just one of many

[00:54:52] you know like if I want to be moved

[00:54:54] to the top of the line right

[00:54:56] in the fix list what does that look like?

[00:55:00] Top of the line in the fix list defined the fix list

[00:55:03] are you talking about every day

[00:55:04] or when something like this happens?

[00:55:06] Like if another crowd strike happens

[00:55:08] instead of you know I'm number 50

[00:55:10] on the list of people to get fixed or remediated

[00:55:13] I want to be number two.

[00:55:16] Sure, I mean if that's the case

[00:55:19] we can probably develop some kind of plan

[00:55:22] or architecture around it

[00:55:23] but my goal would not necessarily be

[00:55:27] figure out a plan to bring you up into number two

[00:55:30] and charge you more money for something

[00:55:32] that you may or may not use as an insurance policy

[00:55:36] but rather look at strategies to be able to say

[00:55:39] how can we prevent this and mitigate it

[00:55:42] to a point where we don't have to deal with it

[00:55:44] and if we do the resolution and fix

[00:55:47] doesn't require us to have to charge you something

[00:55:49] for us to be able to roll people out there really quickly

[00:55:52] but something that is automated

[00:55:54] or something that we can be able to go ahead

[00:55:56] and act change remotely

[00:55:58] so that we're still controlling your costs

[00:56:00] and still providing that value.

[00:56:03] Yeah, I could charge you a make up plan of like VIP rate

[00:56:07] and you pay every month for that

[00:56:09] but then you're paying for something

[00:56:11] that you may or may not use

[00:56:12] like an insurance policy that's not really mandated.

[00:56:15] So I much rather take the time

[00:56:18] and say why don't we look at investing

[00:56:19] in backup strategies that we can initiate remotely

[00:56:23] and be able to do on a massive scale

[00:56:25] and be able to get you back up

[00:56:27] and running in a quickly quick timetable

[00:56:29] and add some potential automation into that too

[00:56:32] doesn't have to cost you extra

[00:56:34] for something you're not using.

[00:56:35] Backup is also helpful

[00:56:36] from the perspective of other cybersecurity incidents

[00:56:40] and now we're killing two birds in one step

[00:56:41] as opposed to making you feel like you're not important

[00:56:45] which by the way, you're meeting with me

[00:56:48] and you're at the top of the level

[00:56:50] you're always important.

[00:56:51] We've had this long lasting relationship

[00:56:52] for X number of years and there's a reason for that

[00:56:55] it's because we believe in you and you believe in us

[00:56:57] and that's why we believe that you're very important

[00:57:00] along with all of our strategic partners

[00:57:02] with dynamic network solutions.

[00:57:06] So I have not done this with anyone else

[00:57:09] but I was just curious with someone

[00:57:12] what would they say, right?

[00:57:13] If you're a business owner

[00:57:14] you're an IT services business

[00:57:15] and by the way there's gonna be another crowd strike

[00:57:18] it's gonna be a different technology, different company

[00:57:20] different outage, different...

[00:57:23] Different sector or whatever.

[00:57:24] It's gonna happen

[00:57:25] and by the way, before crowd strike

[00:57:27] like 30 or 45 days before that

[00:57:29] the entire auto dealership industry

[00:57:31] in the entire country was basically down.

[00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:34] Like the next one comes

[00:57:36] so like how do you handle that

[00:57:39] and you heard from somebody

[00:57:40] on how they would try and handle that?

[00:57:42] I mean, I don't know if I would have gotten that

[00:57:44] if I didn't number one know Sam

[00:57:46] and had a chance to have this conversation with them

[00:57:48] so if that's not an example

[00:57:51] of something that you would learn

[00:57:53] not at a 45 minute death by PowerPoint

[00:57:56] but in a networking environment.

[00:57:59] I don't know what is.

[00:58:00] I mean, I wanna hear that

[00:58:01] from somebody that's been through it.

[00:58:04] Yeah.

[00:58:04] I mean outside of that

[00:58:06] and I don't know how else you're gonna learn anything

[00:58:08] rather than George just springing up something on you

[00:58:10] like five seconds ago without being unplanned at all

[00:58:13] and that's community advice.

[00:58:15] I love that.

[00:58:16] I love that.

[00:58:17] Now, hey, you did great.

[00:58:18] I appreciate you giving us your angle on that

[00:58:21] and quite frankly.

[00:58:23] This is the type of stuff

[00:58:25] that should happen more often.

[00:58:26] I mean, cause everybody has a different opinion

[00:58:28] on how to address this, right?

[00:58:30] I know some people Sam would have said

[00:58:32] well, I'll just charge you more

[00:58:33] if you want to be moved up to the VIP status

[00:58:36] but you went the other way.

[00:58:37] You're like, do you really wanna do that?

[00:58:41] Like, is it worth it to you?

[00:58:42] Like, why don't we come up with a different way

[00:58:44] to handle this rather than me just charging you a tax

[00:58:47] but-

[00:58:48] Yeah, cause like the other thing

[00:58:49] at the end of the day,

[00:58:50] it's long lasting relationships versus short-term net gain.

[00:58:55] And so like, if anybody who takes the first route

[00:58:58] and says, okay, I'll charge you a VIP rate

[00:59:01] or whatever the case may be,

[00:59:03] you're not building a long-term relationship.

[00:59:05] You're just doing short-term gains.

[00:59:07] And so yeah, you're gonna be great for a year

[00:59:09] until I roll around and I go sniffing at your client

[00:59:12] and I can undercut your price

[00:59:14] because you're charging another $200

[00:59:16] or $300 or $400 VIP cost.

[00:59:20] And I can easily walk into your client and say,

[00:59:22] but you're a VIP every day.

[00:59:25] There's no VIP costs

[00:59:26] cause we treat all of our clients as VIPs.

[00:59:30] You always build yourself into that trap by the client.

[00:59:34] The client wants to give you money

[00:59:35] and people are always saying like,

[00:59:37] hey, take it every time.

[00:59:39] And sometimes the best course of action

[00:59:42] is to not fall into the trap and not take it

[00:59:46] to build that long-term relationship.

[00:59:48] And more importantly,

[00:59:49] you need to tell it to them to their face.

[00:59:52] By them knowing that,

[00:59:54] they understand that there's transparency

[00:59:55] in this relationship, which is what they like.

[00:59:58] And more importantly,

[00:59:59] they like people who put all the cards on the table.

[01:00:01] Like, hey, I can make a custom plan

[01:00:04] to just charge you whatever you want

[01:00:06] to make you feel better,

[01:00:07] but it's gonna be paying for some

[01:00:08] and you're not gonna use.

[01:00:10] We should more invest into things

[01:00:12] that you would definitely benefit from

[01:00:14] and would still accomplish your goal

[01:00:16] at the end of the day.

[01:00:17] And that's the reason why I mentioned the back of stuff

[01:00:19] and you really should try to push things

[01:00:20] from that perspective

[01:00:21] because now you're telling them,

[01:00:24] hey, I see what you're asking for.

[01:00:26] I'm trying to address the thing that you're asking for.

[01:00:28] But the way that you're doing it is,

[01:00:31] you know, there's nothing wrong with it.

[01:00:33] However, like this is a better way

[01:00:34] and this is gonna be more beneficial

[01:00:36] for you at the end of the day.

[01:00:38] There's so many people who...

[01:00:39] Yeah, during the town hall session in Denver,

[01:00:43] I wanna see what the role play is for,

[01:00:45] well, Southwest is still running Windows 3.1,

[01:00:48] it's working for them.

[01:00:49] Why do I have to keep updating?

[01:00:51] But we'll leave that for Denver.

[01:00:53] We'll leave that one for Denver

[01:00:54] if those planes make it to Denver, we'll see.

[01:00:58] Hey, Southwest has made your home in Denver.

[01:01:01] Sam, thanks for jumping on.

[01:01:02] I know you're a busy guy.

[01:01:03] Can't wait to see you in Denver in a couple of weeks.

[01:01:05] Yeah, likewise.

[01:01:07] I love this by the way.

[01:01:08] I know I totally like curveballed you,

[01:01:11] but you did great.

[01:01:11] I really appreciate you for entertaining that.

[01:01:14] Thanks, man.

[01:01:14] I think there's no way to do it wrong,

[01:01:17] but I think I did a pretty solid job too at the same time.

[01:01:20] So like, you know,

[01:01:21] more than all of those exercises,

[01:01:23] I think they were great,

[01:01:23] but happy to be throwing curveballs your way.

[01:01:26] 100%.

[01:01:26] Guys, this session was recorded.

[01:01:29] Go back and rewind that little role play

[01:01:32] we did there at the end.

[01:01:34] And I ask the question,

[01:01:35] do you do this internally?

[01:01:37] Do you have other people,

[01:01:38] you know, tell you how they would handle it?

[01:01:40] Like, are you too worried?

[01:01:41] Right?

[01:01:41] Like, hey, they're in the same business I am.

[01:01:44] I don't want to share the secrets,

[01:01:45] but like if you, you know,

[01:01:47] sometimes it's good to get other feedback

[01:01:49] or points of view on how to handle

[01:01:51] like a crisis situation like that.

[01:01:53] And by the way, not theoretical.

[01:01:55] I bet you that type of conversation happened

[01:01:57] in the last 90 days, 60 days, 30 days

[01:02:00] after a major incident,

[01:02:01] which I'm going to remind you one more time.

[01:02:04] There's got to be another major incident.

[01:02:05] And then one after that,

[01:02:06] one after that,

[01:02:07] you can't control that part of it.

[01:02:09] It's what you do to, you know, get ahead of that.

[01:02:11] Right? So I digress.

[01:02:13] Sam, can't wait to do this in person.

[01:02:15] Talk to you and my friend.

[01:02:15] And for everyone else, catch on the next one.

[01:02:18] All right. Take it easy everybody.

[01:02:19] Thanks, George.