Steve Copeland of Rythmz

[00:00:01] Hello! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a December 12th, 2024 edition of the MSP Initiative, MSP Talk.

[00:00:10] We're going to get some housekeeping done out of the way, and then we're going to get into the good stuff.

[00:00:13] And here we go. Buckle up. MSP Initiative.

[00:00:17] Whoop. Move this out of the way.

[00:00:20] Dot com. This is where we park everything that we do, like this very session that's being recorded.

[00:00:24] And this will take you to the sessions page of MSP Initiative, where we have all of our previous podcast episodes.

[00:00:29] And this will take you to our YouTube page, our podcatcher.

[00:00:33] Basically, whatever format you want to listen, share, download, like, subscribe.

[00:00:36] Feel free. This is really for you.

[00:00:39] And we have Community Minds. We're going to be doing another one of these in Dallas coming up in 2025.

[00:00:44] We really enjoyed this educational format. Check it out.

[00:00:48] A little bit different than the standard Expo model of all the big trade shows that you go to.

[00:00:52] So a little bit of education. Actually, a lot of education panels, workshops.

[00:00:56] Check out how we did this last this past year.

[00:00:59] Maybe, you know, stay tuned for dates for this year.

[00:01:01] I think this is definitely a different format for the industry that we really enjoyed.

[00:01:05] And then we had, I don't know, all of our community block parties.

[00:01:09] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven of them.

[00:01:12] Between Europe, U.S., and APAC.

[00:01:14] All of these parties that we accomplished this year between Pax8, Datto, Kaseya, ConnectWise, Enable, and so on.

[00:01:26] You can find all of them here.

[00:01:27] All of the photos and albums for these parties are found on our Facebook page, facebook.com slash MSP Initiative.

[00:01:33] Go check them out.

[00:01:35] We have some community offers for everyone.

[00:01:36] So if you have anything from our vendors that are posted on here that you want to take advantage of, feel free.

[00:01:41] And thanks to the very lovely Jen behind the scenes, you know, wizarding this podcast,

[00:01:46] all of the 2025 dates that we have available to us from all the various organizations are posted on our calendar.

[00:01:53] So if you're curious what's happening next year out in the world, here it is.

[00:01:58] And we'll continuously update this as we get more dates because I'm hearing last year it was like 360-ish.

[00:02:04] Now everybody's saying 500.

[00:02:06] It's quite the jump.

[00:02:07] So we'll see how all these events shake out.

[00:02:10] But plenty of places to go.

[00:02:11] But hopefully you're at home getting ready for the holiday season and you got all your orders in and your Amazon, you know, yearly spend is skyrocketing.

[00:02:20] And so we can't wait to see what everybody's end of year spend is because, you know, there's a report in Amazon for that.

[00:02:25] And I ask people that sometimes and they don't want to share.

[00:02:28] We know what that means.

[00:02:29] All right.

[00:02:30] Today's guest is a person that fellow Philadelphia Eagles fan, by the way, and I always love bringing them onto the show because, you know, we go birds every time that we see each other.

[00:02:41] Steve from Rhythms.

[00:02:42] How are you doing today, Steve?

[00:02:44] Good, man.

[00:02:44] How are you?

[00:02:45] I'm deep in enemy territory.

[00:02:46] So I'm hanging out in Dallas, Irving.

[00:02:50] So they're not having a good time this year, I think.

[00:02:53] Yeah, I didn't really care.

[00:02:56] My two favorite teams, the Philadelphia Eagles and anybody playing the Cowboys.

[00:03:00] Hey, I think that's, you know, tracking with most people, I think.

[00:03:04] Or at least anybody against the Cowboys.

[00:03:07] How about you hear Belichick is now going down to college?

[00:03:09] I heard.

[00:03:11] Yeah.

[00:03:11] Crazy, right?

[00:03:12] Interesting.

[00:03:13] Yeah.

[00:03:13] Yeah.

[00:03:14] A hundred percent.

[00:03:14] So Steve and I have really gotten a little bit more acquainted this past year, 2024.

[00:03:19] 2024, but lo and behold, he has a long, long, long journey through the MSP sandbox.

[00:03:26] I always like to start off these calls with, you know, a little bit of walk down history

[00:03:30] lane so people can like, you know, get a 30,000 foot of like how you, you know, started,

[00:03:34] how you got to where you are today, and then we'll get on with the good stuff.

[00:03:38] Sure.

[00:03:38] So 2003, I got hired at an MSP.

[00:03:44] That was it.

[00:03:45] I mean, it just started from there.

[00:03:47] I was a, I was the project manager.

[00:03:49] I worked at a large consulting firm called Dynetech.

[00:03:52] And when they sold, one of the guys left, right?

[00:03:58] And it was really, it was really kind of interesting that he brought the small, medium-sized business.

[00:04:05] He had the foresight to see it.

[00:04:06] And so I was running the Cisco practice and Glenn called me and he goes, hey, get over here.

[00:04:12] So I did.

[00:04:13] Started hanging servers upside down with zip ties.

[00:04:16] You know, all the fun stuff that you go through as you're, as you're learning that MSP piece.

[00:04:21] And then, then we developed a spam filtering company.

[00:04:26] A lot, a lot of people remember me from spam.

[00:04:28] So, and it's really funny to still see our t-shirts out there.

[00:04:32] We had a t-shirt thing that was really kind of fun.

[00:04:34] And we're kind of copying that with rhythms.

[00:04:36] And then opened my own MSP and then left.

[00:04:40] I was gone for the last eight years, eight, nine years.

[00:04:43] And I've been doing vodka and doing a lot of other stuff.

[00:04:48] And then we came up with this really cool idea and I came back.

[00:04:51] And I'll tell you right now, I love it.

[00:04:54] This community is amazing.

[00:04:56] So.

[00:04:57] Yes, it is a fun place.

[00:04:59] I like to call it the MSP sandbox.

[00:05:02] Not everybody plays nice in the sandbox, but hey, you know, that's just life.

[00:05:06] But I do love the community.

[00:05:07] I agree with you.

[00:05:09] So you, you, you were, I called the 20, like 2000 through 2010.

[00:05:13] Like in my opinion, in my experience, it's like the heyday for, for this industry.

[00:05:17] Right.

[00:05:18] It's where things were still.

[00:05:19] It was crazy.

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:21] It was still in flux.

[00:05:22] It wasn't mature.

[00:05:23] The model was a little bit like a guessing game.

[00:05:25] Yeah.

[00:05:26] It was a little bit more rowdy those days.

[00:05:28] It was a little rowdy.

[00:05:30] It was fun though.

[00:05:30] I enjoyed it a lot.

[00:05:31] So, you know, there when, you know, Rob Ray was my level platforms rep or right.

[00:05:38] Or Irvish.

[00:05:38] Right.

[00:05:38] So knowing a lot of those names and people that were out there at that time and where

[00:05:45] they've gone from there.

[00:05:45] It's pretty cool to see that too.

[00:05:48] Like great.

[00:05:48] Good friends.

[00:05:49] Ken Patterson.

[00:05:50] Great friend.

[00:05:51] Awesome to see where, how he's grown and seeing how, how people have grown throughout the channel

[00:05:56] and been, been there you as well, watching you kind of go, your journey has been kind of

[00:06:00] neat.

[00:06:01] Right.

[00:06:01] So I think mine is more like a pinball machine, but yeah, I got you.

[00:06:05] A little, a little.

[00:06:09] I appreciate that.

[00:06:10] Yeah.

[00:06:10] And Ken's great.

[00:06:11] We love Ken.

[00:06:12] He's definitely his, his own presence for sure.

[00:06:16] So just, just curious, right?

[00:06:18] Like, you know, you're in, you're in a base out of California.

[00:06:21] Now you're in Philly at one point you made the jump out to the West coast.

[00:06:24] So, you know, that's a pretty, you know, diametrically opposite world.

[00:06:29] So when did that happen?

[00:06:32] Uh, how did I move from Philly?

[00:06:34] So I'm still Philly at heart.

[00:06:36] My dad still lives in, he lives in Long Beach Island, New Jersey.

[00:06:39] He retired.

[00:06:40] Everybody.

[00:06:40] If you're not from the East coast, everybody retires to the shore at some point.

[00:06:43] Right.

[00:06:45] Um, the journey had started, I went to Penn state kind of seven years in Seattle for a

[00:06:49] while.

[00:06:49] And then my mom lived in California and I just moved back down.

[00:06:53] I love it.

[00:06:54] Right.

[00:06:54] Right.

[00:06:54] So I'm, I'm kind of orange County, inland empire kind of guy, not, not an LA guy.

[00:06:59] Uh, the land of the big trucks is like, as I like to call it.

[00:07:02] So, uh, but no, it's a, that move was interesting.

[00:07:08] I think I moved there in 98 and finally just stayed now.

[00:07:11] And our offices are actually in Arizona.

[00:07:13] So now I get, now I get to do both.

[00:07:15] Nobody wants to be in Arizona at, uh, in August.

[00:07:18] We were laughing about that yesterday.

[00:07:20] So for sure.

[00:07:21] But it's nice this time of year.

[00:07:22] Oh, it's beautiful right now.

[00:07:24] Absolutely beautiful.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] But it melts trash cans.

[00:07:27] 33 degrees here.

[00:07:28] It's not 33 degrees there.

[00:07:30] Nope.

[00:07:30] It melts trash cans in August.

[00:07:33] And shoes.

[00:07:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:35] I have a shoes melting story from Arizona.

[00:07:38] Really?

[00:07:38] Yeah.

[00:07:39] Yeah.

[00:07:39] I was like, I like literally spilled something.

[00:07:41] I was at, I was at one of the inaugural it glue con.

[00:07:44] Okay.

[00:07:46] Uh, this was pre Kaseya.

[00:07:47] Yeah.

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:48] And I had spilled something on my shoes, like soda or something.

[00:07:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:51] We were at an Airbnb.

[00:07:52] I was like, oh, let me just like wipe these off and put them outside to dry.

[00:07:55] And I came back and my shoes were melted.

[00:07:59] That's cool.

[00:07:59] I was like, what just happened here?

[00:08:02] Like how did that, somebody bore Astin on my shoes?

[00:08:05] So I had to like literally go with like socks to the shoe store to buy new shoes.

[00:08:09] Yeah.

[00:08:09] Buy new shoes.

[00:08:10] Yeah.

[00:08:10] It was great.

[00:08:10] Yeah.

[00:08:10] We, uh, I was here in August, not this August, last August and we're, I'm in the office and

[00:08:17] across the news, we have the TV with the news and the news goes air, uh, uh, a trash

[00:08:22] can has melted in North Phoenix and they showed a picture of it.

[00:08:26] And I packed up my laptop and went to the airport.

[00:08:30] Everybody's like, where are you going?

[00:08:31] I'm like, I'm gone, dude.

[00:08:32] I'm gone.

[00:08:33] It's not, nope, not my, uh, not my heat.

[00:08:36] That's funny.

[00:08:37] Um, so vodka.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:41] You know, you like, you left MSP land for eight or nine years.

[00:08:45] That, that was, that was post Hey Dave, right?

[00:08:47] We're talking like what?

[00:08:48] 2011, 2012 until 2013.

[00:08:51] I sold my MSP final sale, sold it twice.

[00:08:56] Uh, it was 2013.

[00:08:58] Okay.

[00:08:59] So like, that was just about the time where all of the big players that are there now

[00:09:03] were just starting to get busy.

[00:09:05] Right.

[00:09:05] Yeah.

[00:09:05] You know, the, the big names you see out there now.

[00:09:07] So, and then, then you came back when?

[00:09:10] I came back this year.

[00:09:12] This year.

[00:09:14] You're, you're, you're, you're.

[00:09:15] We're a 10 month old company.

[00:09:17] Wow.

[00:09:17] All right.

[00:09:19] So where did you get the idea for this company?

[00:09:22] And tell us a little bit about why it helps.

[00:09:24] Like, what's the problem we're solving for?

[00:09:26] Connectivity.

[00:09:27] Anywhere.

[00:09:29] So, um, there's nobody that owns MSP that ever has heard the, this question.

[00:09:34] Hey, we opened an office on Monday.

[00:09:36] We need internet.

[00:09:38] And it's, they're calling you on Friday at 4 PM.

[00:09:40] So it never, never happens.

[00:09:42] So not unless, not unless you're going to get a bunch of hot spots from the cell phone

[00:09:46] company.

[00:09:47] Quickly.

[00:09:47] Right.

[00:09:47] Or maybe you had a Starlink thing at home and you just see if you can move it.

[00:09:51] Yeah.

[00:09:52] And hope it doesn't rain.

[00:09:54] So, uh, where this idea came from, we, we did so with the vodka company, we did this

[00:09:59] big party, right.

[00:10:01] And a huge Beverly Hills mansion.

[00:10:04] And the wifi went down.

[00:10:06] Technically the land, the internet went down and, uh, the CEO of the group that I'm part

[00:10:12] of comes over and he goes, the wifi is out.

[00:10:14] I'm like, the wifi is not out.

[00:10:15] The internet's out.

[00:10:16] And he goes, that's not what anybody else thinks fix it.

[00:10:19] But so I looked and I'm trying to figure out how do you do these event?

[00:10:23] There's gotta be something where you can bring this.

[00:10:25] So I started researching.

[00:10:27] And when that, as that research went out, there's 5g internet boxes and they rent for

[00:10:32] $1,800 a day.

[00:10:36] A day?

[00:10:37] A day.

[00:10:38] Seems a little pricey.

[00:10:40] It is pretty pricey.

[00:10:41] I'm like, all right, that's ridiculous.

[00:10:42] You gotta be a way to build it.

[00:10:44] So I'm looking at some of these things.

[00:10:45] They're like $20,000.

[00:10:47] And somebody had listed everything in it.

[00:10:49] And I went, I've got a Dremel in a garage.

[00:10:52] So literally built the first one in my garage and just ripped up three, four Pelican cases.

[00:11:00] No, this won't fit this way.

[00:11:01] This won't fit that way kind of thing.

[00:11:03] And as we did it, um, we had to test.

[00:11:06] So we, as the vodka company, uh, we were a big sponsor of the Rose bowl, the official

[00:11:11] vodka, the Rose bowl.

[00:11:12] Oh, and, uh, um, we sat there and there was a Coldplay concert and I go, well, I'm going

[00:11:19] to test it there.

[00:11:20] Like a couple of the people on the team were like, well, how do you test?

[00:11:23] Pretty extreme tests.

[00:11:25] Well, yeah.

[00:11:26] I mean, if it's going to work, it works, right?

[00:11:28] Sure.

[00:11:29] What happened to like, but okay, cool.

[00:11:32] Yeah.

[00:11:33] We went straight to run, right?

[00:11:34] When you, when you, when you are tasked with building a monkey to speak Shakespeare on a,

[00:11:40] on a pedestal, start with a monkey, not with a pedestal.

[00:11:44] So, uh, if the monkey doesn't talk, it doesn't work.

[00:11:47] So as we came out, that was a whole, and it was pretty funny in some of the meetings,

[00:11:51] like, how do we test prior to this?

[00:11:53] I'm like, I don't know.

[00:11:54] You tell me how to, cause I have no idea how to do it.

[00:11:56] We're just going to throw them out and see what happens.

[00:11:58] So, uh, we did.

[00:12:00] And then, uh, I have still had a lot of friends that are in the MSP market.

[00:12:05] And one of my old clients was with a friend of mine and he had a fiber sniffing backhoe.

[00:12:10] Oh, like that, like in the ground.

[00:12:12] Yep.

[00:12:13] Right into the ground, cut the, cut the fiber.

[00:12:15] And he called me up in a panic and he goes, how do we, he goes, they're not going to fix it

[00:12:19] for three weeks.

[00:12:19] I'm like, well, I have this box.

[00:12:21] And he's like, what?

[00:12:24] And went out, took the box.

[00:12:25] They were on it for two months, by the way.

[00:12:30] And they were like, this is the best thing ever.

[00:12:33] And, uh, and I, then it finally hit me.

[00:12:35] The light bulb went off and I go, I think this solves some problems.

[00:12:39] So that's where this company came born.

[00:12:42] Hmm.

[00:12:43] Went out and done a ton of shows.

[00:12:45] I've done shows with you.

[00:12:47] Um, and we've grown from zero to 73 partners in 10 months.

[00:12:54] Wow.

[00:12:55] So like, what's the use case?

[00:12:56] Is this, uh, when you, when you're, you know, is this more of a, a temporary thing?

[00:13:01] Like you're not positioning this as a replacement to, I don't know, Verizon files, AT&T fiber

[00:13:07] to the building.

[00:13:07] Are you?

[00:13:08] It can, it can in conjunction with it, because what we do is all of the bandwidth is on a

[00:13:14] SD win.

[00:13:15] So that's the big difference, right?

[00:13:17] So your SD when has that our biggest, when I started this and I said, if we're going

[00:13:21] to do this in MSP play, I needed three things.

[00:13:23] I need to be able to bond any type of internet in there.

[00:13:26] Fair.

[00:13:27] So that includes Starlink includes 5g, whatever's there.

[00:13:30] So when we say unbreakable internet, it's as close as you can get.

[00:13:34] Right.

[00:13:35] If you had Starlink, you had local area network and you add in the 5g.

[00:13:40] It still might go down, right?

[00:13:43] Uh, cause nothing is completely a hundred percent, but it's as close to six, seven nines

[00:13:49] as you can get.

[00:13:50] So it does do that to use cases for that.

[00:13:53] We've got three partners now that are really going after the event space and conferences.

[00:13:59] Cause as we have conferences, you talked about earlier, there's 360.

[00:14:02] So does every other industry and conference internet.

[00:14:06] When you do it cost $10,000, $8,000.

[00:14:11] I, I, I, especially when you, uh, I, I've heard this game, especially at the big conferences,

[00:14:15] right?

[00:14:15] You go to a convention center or a big conference kind of center attached to a hotel.

[00:14:21] Right.

[00:14:21] And they're like, Oh, the normal wifi is included.

[00:14:24] And then you get there and the normal wifi is like AOL.

[00:14:28] And then like, all of a sudden you call, you go to the hotel management and you're like,

[00:14:32] Hey, the internet's bad.

[00:14:33] Oh, they're like, well, you can upgrade it.

[00:14:35] It's going to cost $23,000.

[00:14:36] And you're like, uh, I guess like what are you supposed to do?

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:40] How do we do that?

[00:14:41] So when we go to the conferences, it's really funny.

[00:14:44] We've got a couple of partners that go, did you bring the box?

[00:14:46] Did you bring the box?

[00:14:47] I'm like, yes, right here.

[00:14:48] And they'll just jump right in.

[00:14:49] And then, uh, so that event space is really good.

[00:14:52] We've got one in Texas is doing that.

[00:14:53] We've got another partner in Florida that really just pretty much regurgitated our entire webpage

[00:15:00] onto his.

[00:15:01] And he's like, is that cool?

[00:15:02] I'm like, sure.

[00:15:03] So helping him do it.

[00:15:04] Um, so that's a use case, cybersecurity incidents.

[00:15:08] There's a big use case for that.

[00:15:10] So we've got a lot of pieces going with that piece.

[00:15:12] First thing you got to do is turn off the internet.

[00:15:15] So that comes in as a replacement internet.

[00:15:17] As our director of ops says, it's not like finding, and it's, it's not unhackable, but

[00:15:22] it's like finding a needle in a stack of needles.

[00:15:25] Cause all I got to do is turn, turn it on, turn it off.

[00:15:28] Replacement that, that moving piece.

[00:15:31] Uh, the conference plays are really one of our partners.

[00:15:34] We did a POC with, and we were going up against a purse.

[00:15:38] Uh, they went the interesting enough.

[00:15:41] The first one I researched the wifi company, uh, they went with, right.

[00:15:47] And, uh, they're doing it for this big thing.

[00:15:49] They sent up six box, not boxes, $9,000 a day.

[00:15:53] And when they called the partner with them, they're like, yeah, we'll give you a $500

[00:15:55] referral fee.

[00:15:57] Right.

[00:15:58] And they're making tons of money by the way.

[00:16:02] So I'm looking at it and, uh, they called me up and like, can we do a POC?

[00:16:06] I'm like, yeah, put one of our boxes on one of the corners of this event.

[00:16:09] And I just saw them yesterday and they're like, it is working so good.

[00:16:13] We're going to kick them out of this thing.

[00:16:15] And it's great.

[00:16:15] And the difference is they're paying us 600 bucks.

[00:16:20] So now it's a reverse.

[00:16:21] So now they're making money on that.

[00:16:23] And that's the big key with us is right.

[00:16:24] Is how do we help our partners make money?

[00:16:26] Right.

[00:16:27] We know what our costs are.

[00:16:28] We obviously make money.

[00:16:30] Right.

[00:16:31] But instead of going out to an event and losing money or paying $8,000, they're actually able

[00:16:36] to get that money back and use that.

[00:16:39] And that's where, like I said, these three partners are killing out this event space.

[00:16:42] And I'm teaching them how to do it.

[00:16:43] So we may have done besides Coldplay, we did Tiesto, Chain Smokers.

[00:16:48] I have no idea what this is.

[00:16:49] My kids do.

[00:16:50] I don't know.

[00:16:50] Chain Smoker, Tiesto, all the other stuff.

[00:16:52] So that's been great.

[00:16:57] We partnered with a ticket vendor.

[00:17:00] What they like, and because we were able to keep the tickets up.

[00:17:03] We were able to keep all the different pieces going during the 7,000 person event.

[00:17:08] And they went, we want to work with you exclusively.

[00:17:11] So we're in the middle of that contract.

[00:17:13] But that is going to our MSP partners.

[00:17:16] So that was part of the contract.

[00:17:17] They said, well, we don't work with you direct.

[00:17:21] So you're going to have to do this with our MSP partners.

[00:17:24] And that was the selling point.

[00:17:26] They loved it.

[00:17:29] Absolutely loved it.

[00:17:30] So let me ask you a question, a couple of questions that come just directly to mind.

[00:17:34] Most MSPs, when they hear about internet, any kind of internet, I don't care if it's wireless,

[00:17:39] wireline, fiber, whatever.

[00:17:42] Still old school T1s exist, believe it or not.

[00:17:44] I don't know why.

[00:17:46] There's just not a lot of money in it for that.

[00:17:48] Right?

[00:17:48] 20% of a number you don't control.

[00:17:50] Right?

[00:17:50] Or 10% or 5% or whatever.

[00:17:53] And so a lot of people just consider that mailbox money type stuff.

[00:17:56] Right?

[00:17:57] But they don't want to touch it.

[00:17:58] Right?

[00:17:58] They're like, hey, there's not enough meat on the bone for me to even really get into this.

[00:18:02] I'm going to concentrate on what does make us money.

[00:18:04] I'm just going to send it over here, over here.

[00:18:06] They go to a master agency.

[00:18:08] Right?

[00:18:08] And they send it.

[00:18:09] And it's like, I don't care.

[00:18:11] Right?

[00:18:11] You know, like checkbox.

[00:18:14] So when you're talking to people about this from the MSP arena,

[00:18:19] how does this work?

[00:18:20] Because, you know, again, you're taking a topic, new wrinkle to it, no question.

[00:18:25] But you're taking a topic with connectivity that people largely write off.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:29] And like, how do you get them to bite?

[00:18:32] So what we've done with the partners is because ours is the set fee.

[00:18:35] Right?

[00:18:36] Okay.

[00:18:36] So we're either $2.95 for a small box, $5.95, $6.95, up to $9.95.

[00:18:42] Depending per month.

[00:18:43] Right?

[00:18:43] That includes, when I was talking about the three things, it has to be carrier agnostic.

[00:18:48] It's very important.

[00:18:49] Right?

[00:18:49] Right.

[00:18:49] So we have all three carriers in all of our boxes.

[00:18:53] Okay.

[00:18:54] So when we talk about that as that replacement piece, they're able to talk.

[00:18:58] Connectivity, it's the one thing MSPs is that last mile.

[00:19:02] The one thing MSPs aren't controlling is the most important thing.

[00:19:07] And there are now carrier service providers, which we're hearing on the telecom side.

[00:19:11] I've got a telecom background.

[00:19:13] And now everybody's squeezing in this MSP space because they want to be in there.

[00:19:18] And as managed service providers now, as the steward of your data, right?

[00:19:23] The biggest piece that I always say to is if you don't control that relationship, it's a problem.

[00:19:29] And you're still getting yelled at.

[00:19:31] As an MSP, even if you don't, let's just say they have a Cox cable internet.

[00:19:36] It goes out.

[00:19:38] Right?

[00:19:39] You're still getting called.

[00:19:40] Yeah.

[00:19:41] It doesn't matter.

[00:19:42] 100%.

[00:19:43] Still getting that yelled.

[00:19:44] The internet's out.

[00:19:45] I still get those calls.

[00:19:46] So why not control some of the internet?

[00:19:48] Why not control pieces of it?

[00:19:50] It's a way better call when, hey, the internet is slower.

[00:19:53] When you do a proactive piece and you have this box out there and you're able to go,

[00:19:58] hey, your internet's a little slower today, but the cock cable's out.

[00:20:01] I'm already on it.

[00:20:03] It's a way different conversation than the internet's down.

[00:20:07] I can't get my emails.

[00:20:08] What's going on?

[00:20:09] What did you do?

[00:20:10] No, no, fair.

[00:20:11] And 100% right on all of that.

[00:20:13] So when you're talking about these price points, that includes the hardware and the connectivity service?

[00:20:19] Or are they going out and getting SIM cards from all these different carriers?

[00:20:22] I control the carrier relationships because I love to yell at vendors.

[00:20:26] Okay.

[00:20:29] So how do you know if it's going to work other than, hey, we assume one of the three providers is going to have connectivity wherever you're going to be kind of thing?

[00:20:38] Or do you actually give them a tool to check it out?

[00:20:42] We have a tool that's moving into our pane of glass that people can use, but we use our own tools.

[00:20:48] I can see what's happening with the internet.

[00:20:50] I can see what's happening with the 5G tower.

[00:20:52] I can see how overloaded it is, which we have some of the same tools with Verizon, T-Mobile.

[00:20:58] AT&T is a little bit more difficult to work with.

[00:21:00] I don't know if you've ever dealt with that before, but a little bit more.

[00:21:04] But there are tools that we use, and then we recommend some tools as well.

[00:21:07] If you can look at this.

[00:21:08] So we check the area first.

[00:21:11] I will tell you who's killing it is T-Mobile and Verizon.

[00:21:15] Usually.

[00:21:16] T-Mobile is probably one of the better ones.

[00:21:20] Huh.

[00:21:22] Okay.

[00:21:23] Surprisingly.

[00:21:24] You know what?

[00:21:25] When we did Channel Strong Tour a few years back, me, Kenny P, and a bunch of the guys, you know, while COVID was happening.

[00:21:31] I will admit the T-Mobile hotspot we were paying for on the road did work pretty good.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:38] And they've gotten better.

[00:21:39] Hmm.

[00:21:40] And then if you look at the 5G space and who's purchased a lot of that, one of the most interesting thing is you've got T-Mobile, you have Verizon, and DISH Network.

[00:21:53] DISH Network?

[00:21:54] DISH Network owns a very large majority of the 5G network.

[00:21:58] So is DISH Network now, like, shifting their business model here?

[00:22:02] What's going on?

[00:22:03] Well, if you think about it, so 5G, the way it really works is you can have 250 or 2 million devices in one tower.

[00:22:13] Streaming at 10 gigs each.

[00:22:15] When 5G is properly deployed.

[00:22:19] Right.

[00:22:19] So as it's coming out, you know, I make this joke usually when I do a presentation and talk about it.

[00:22:25] Everything's a lab toy until it actually has functionality.

[00:22:28] The steam engine didn't matter.

[00:22:29] The steam engine that they built didn't matter until there was railroad tracks.

[00:22:33] Right?

[00:22:34] So 5G is one of those things.

[00:22:36] AI is definitely one of those things.

[00:22:38] IoT is one of those things.

[00:22:39] So as things are starting to become mature, that connectivity and that latency is becoming a much bigger piece.

[00:22:45] Right?

[00:22:46] 5G has a better latency.

[00:22:48] It's actually faster than you can see something.

[00:22:51] Hmm.

[00:22:51] 5 milliseconds.

[00:22:53] Fully deployed.

[00:22:54] Not the 5G on your phone.

[00:22:56] Right?

[00:22:56] Not the piece out that's out there.

[00:22:59] It's this fixed wireless access, 5G piece.

[00:23:03] It's convergence of Wi-Fi 7 and 5G.

[00:23:06] 6G I've seen already.

[00:23:08] The thing is disgustingly fast.

[00:23:10] And it converges with AI, converges with different pieces because of that latency side.

[00:23:17] Hmm.

[00:23:21] Well, big picture.

[00:23:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:24] This, this, so an MSP is going to come to you, sign up as a partner, get access to these, this package, box, service, right?

[00:23:31] I'm assuming the different tiers was based on capacity, right?

[00:23:34] Yep.

[00:23:35] Okay.

[00:23:36] Actually, it's based on bandwidth.

[00:23:37] Okay.

[00:23:38] So like upload download speed.

[00:23:40] Upload download speed.

[00:23:41] Okay.

[00:23:42] And so if it's just a backup to the wire line coming to the office, right?

[00:23:47] Instead of them going to Verizon or one of the carriers on their own, right?

[00:23:52] They will call you up.

[00:23:53] They'd be like, all right, it's, I think you said it was like 195 for the lowest package or something like this.

[00:23:57] Right?

[00:23:57] They're going to, you know, go into their customer's office.

[00:24:01] You're going to plug it in, plug it into, I guess, their firewall.

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] That's there with the other internet, the wire line internet.

[00:24:07] And then they'll just run as the backup internet.

[00:24:10] It runs.

[00:24:11] Now the benefit of that is I don't like wasted cost.

[00:24:15] Sure.

[00:24:16] So we can either be a dumb box sitting on the outside of the firewall, or we can be a smart box and control it right there.

[00:24:21] So when we bond in that existing line and the 5G, now you've increased their bandwidth and made it secure.

[00:24:29] So are we displacing the, I don't know, Sonic wall or watch guard or I don't know?

[00:24:34] I still sit on the front of it.

[00:24:35] You still want the firewall piece of it.

[00:24:37] Sure.

[00:24:37] Don't use watch guards.

[00:24:41] Sorry.

[00:24:42] The ex Cisco guy coming out.

[00:24:45] Sure, sure.

[00:24:46] It doesn't replace it.

[00:24:48] It's going to work in conjunction, right?

[00:24:50] What you're controlling is instead of having WAN zero failover, which even if you and I have a telecom background, even if you have a small heartbeat, that failover won't kick sometimes.

[00:25:02] Okay.

[00:25:03] Right?

[00:25:04] So you want a true bonded failover is using all of it at the same time.

[00:25:09] So even if that heartbeat's there and you call it, I've gone through this.

[00:25:13] I'm sure you have.

[00:25:14] Call up Cox or whoever, Spectrum, it doesn't matter who it is.

[00:25:17] And you go, hey, no, no, we can see your router.

[00:25:19] You're up.

[00:25:20] We're like, no, we're not up.

[00:25:23] It's up.

[00:25:23] It's on your side.

[00:25:24] I actually had this happen this morning at five o'clock in the morning.

[00:25:28] Yes.

[00:25:29] It's like, yeah, you're online.

[00:25:30] It's like, I can't get anywhere.

[00:25:32] What are you talking about?

[00:25:32] Yeah.

[00:25:32] What are you talking about?

[00:25:33] No replies.

[00:25:34] No nothing.

[00:25:35] Like, what do you mean we're up?

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:37] And that pulls that away.

[00:25:40] So the partners that we do have that are using that are loving it.

[00:25:44] Because that's different.

[00:25:46] Are you able to do a static public IP address?

[00:25:49] Yeah.

[00:25:50] I can do a static IP per sim.

[00:25:52] Okay.

[00:25:53] That's interesting.

[00:25:54] And then, like, how do you control?

[00:25:56] Like, is there a firewalling controller or is it just wide open?

[00:25:59] There's a firewall.

[00:26:00] There's control.

[00:26:02] We have a lot.

[00:26:02] I have engineers.

[00:26:03] So we take that as part of our service to help MSPs.

[00:26:06] Okay.

[00:26:07] Most of our smaller MSPs don't have the firewall experience that, say, like I do.

[00:26:13] Right?

[00:26:14] And there's another Stephen Copeland does now.

[00:26:16] Right?

[00:26:17] Who just passed his Cisco.

[00:26:19] And he's a certified engineer now.

[00:26:21] So we're very happy.

[00:26:23] That's good.

[00:26:23] But that router jockey mentality from decades ago comes in.

[00:26:27] And I'm like, I mean, we had one partner go, oh, I just want to put a wide open port on the local IRA network.

[00:26:34] And I go, no, we're not going to do that.

[00:26:36] He's like, well, that's how I access it.

[00:26:37] And I'm like, we're not going to do that.

[00:26:40] There's got to be a better way.

[00:26:42] If you need me to pay you five bucks to buy an agent, I will just take it right off.

[00:26:46] But that's not a way to do that.

[00:26:48] So that's fair.

[00:26:50] That's fair.

[00:26:50] That's not a good practice.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:52] So and then, like, I assume, is this a month-to-month thing?

[00:26:57] Is there a minimum?

[00:26:59] Nope.

[00:26:59] Just pay as you go.

[00:27:00] Is it built ahead or in arrears?

[00:27:03] We do.

[00:27:04] We bill.

[00:27:05] We bill true.

[00:27:06] Okay.

[00:27:08] So you get a box.

[00:27:09] We just bill them.

[00:27:10] Are you billing them pre?

[00:27:11] Like, first of the month?

[00:27:12] They're billing for the month?

[00:27:13] First of the month.

[00:27:14] Okay.

[00:27:14] Cool.

[00:27:15] And then is there any, like, if they're, you know, like, you know, I'm sure with the

[00:27:20] telco tax laws here in the U.S., specifically, you're re-billing for calling plans.

[00:27:25] There's a lot of strings that come along with that.

[00:27:27] Does that apply to internet at all?

[00:27:29] Nope.

[00:27:30] Nope.

[00:27:30] Okay.

[00:27:31] That's important because people find that out the hard way.

[00:27:34] Yep.

[00:27:34] Yep.

[00:27:35] Oh, no.

[00:27:36] There's a, so a lot, we had a lot of partners.

[00:27:38] I had four partners come up in the last two months.

[00:27:42] T-Mobile is cracking down on the T-Mobile business lines.

[00:27:45] They were putting it all out there and using one address.

[00:27:48] T-Mobile.

[00:27:49] And ripping them all out.

[00:27:50] Just turning it off.

[00:27:51] I had one partner go, I don't know what to do.

[00:27:53] I'm like, well, I have a relationship with T-Mobile.

[00:27:54] I called.

[00:27:55] And the guy's like, yeah, no, we're cracking down on that everywhere.

[00:27:58] And I went, cool.

[00:28:00] And I go, what about me?

[00:28:01] And he goes, oh, no, you don't count.

[00:28:04] So our carrier relationship is, we're what's called a wireless carrier partner.

[00:28:10] Okay.

[00:28:11] So we don't, I'm basically, I have thousands of SIMs at this point.

[00:28:15] But our relationship with them is we're basically like a cell phone store.

[00:28:19] They could care less what we do with it.

[00:28:21] So.

[00:28:21] That's good.

[00:28:24] Interesting.

[00:28:25] All right.

[00:28:25] So then let's say there's a conference.

[00:28:29] I'm like, Steve, next month, I got a, you know, 4,000 person conference.

[00:28:33] How do you begin to determine what they actually need?

[00:28:37] Because they probably don't know.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:39] So the first thing that we'll do is we need the address.

[00:28:41] Give me the address.

[00:28:42] I'm going to see what's there.

[00:28:43] Right.

[00:28:43] So let me see where their carriers are at.

[00:28:45] Let me see where these, what we have to do there.

[00:28:47] Right.

[00:28:48] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:50] Oh, excuse me.

[00:28:50] Second one that we're going to do is I start counting the amount of people.

[00:28:56] So there's a math, there's a traffic math piece, right?

[00:28:59] 4,000 people aren't going to be on their phone the whole time.

[00:29:02] Fair.

[00:29:03] So you do 30%, usually 20, 30%.

[00:29:06] So then we oversubscribe on top of that.

[00:29:08] So for that event, I would do five boxes.

[00:29:11] But does the floor plan make a difference here?

[00:29:14] No?

[00:29:15] They're meshed.

[00:29:17] Yeah.

[00:29:18] Ah, yeah.

[00:29:18] Like the more modern, you know.

[00:29:20] Okay.

[00:29:21] But a stadium versus a conference is a lot more beams and concrete.

[00:29:26] Well, yeah.

[00:29:27] Now, if we're at an aquarium, I've got it.

[00:29:29] I've got it.

[00:29:31] FaceTime, we're going to walk through this thing.

[00:29:33] Okay.

[00:29:33] Let's see where this, water and cell signals don't seem to work real well.

[00:29:37] I don't know why.

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:38] No, I can imagine.

[00:29:39] All right.

[00:29:40] So, and then, all right, Steve, I only need this for four days.

[00:29:45] Do they pay for the whole month?

[00:29:46] Do they ship it ahead of time?

[00:29:47] Do they ship it back to you?

[00:29:48] Ship it ahead of time, ship it back.

[00:29:49] Okay.

[00:29:50] That's it.

[00:29:51] And what happens if it breaks?

[00:29:55] There?

[00:29:55] Yeah.

[00:29:56] I ship you another one.

[00:29:57] Okay.

[00:30:00] And what happens if it gets stolen?

[00:30:03] I have geo-tracking on them.

[00:30:05] Really?

[00:30:06] Yeah.

[00:30:07] Okay.

[00:30:07] Is it like an air tag in there?

[00:30:10] A couple things.

[00:30:11] Okay.

[00:30:12] I'll know when it's back on, trust me.

[00:30:13] You can track it from the cell phone.

[00:30:14] We didn't have it stolen, but something very similar happened at that Tiesto piece.

[00:30:20] Okay.

[00:30:20] One of the vendors, food vendor, took the box by accident.

[00:30:25] Ah, that's fair.

[00:30:27] Right?

[00:30:28] Turned it on.

[00:30:29] Called the event.

[00:30:30] They turned it on.

[00:30:30] They had no idea what it was, right?

[00:30:32] We called the event venue and they brought it back that day.

[00:30:37] No problem.

[00:30:38] Fair enough.

[00:30:39] As it went on, I have alerts.

[00:30:41] Boom.

[00:30:41] That one's on.

[00:30:41] It's over here at there.

[00:30:43] Who's the vendor that has this address?

[00:30:47] Fair.

[00:30:47] Makes sense.

[00:30:49] Huh.

[00:30:50] And then, since this is so new, right?

[00:30:54] You're not even 12 months in.

[00:30:55] You said you're 10 months in.

[00:30:59] So, you said no minimums.

[00:31:00] Month to month.

[00:31:01] Bill ahead.

[00:31:03] You know, you're going to ship them everything ready to go.

[00:31:06] Yep.

[00:31:06] There's a monitoring component, right?

[00:31:08] So, you can help remotely.

[00:31:11] You're going to, you know, it's like as a service.

[00:31:13] So, if it breaks, you're going to, you know, ship them a replacement.

[00:31:16] They send you the replacement back.

[00:31:18] Month to month, which you said earlier, which is great.

[00:31:21] What about upgrading, downgrading?

[00:31:23] I start at the low one, and then we realize that we're really maxing out the capacity.

[00:31:29] I need to move up to the next one.

[00:31:30] Is that just the remote switch for you to press?

[00:31:33] No, I have to ship you a new box.

[00:31:35] Okay.

[00:31:36] So, like, hey, Steve, can you ship me something out tomorrow?

[00:31:39] This thing needs an upgrade.

[00:31:40] Okay.

[00:31:41] Cool.

[00:31:41] And everything's shipping out of Arizona?

[00:31:43] Yep.

[00:31:44] Arizona and El Segundo, California.

[00:31:46] Got it.

[00:31:46] I have two offices.

[00:31:48] Awesome.

[00:31:48] So, this is very interesting.

[00:31:50] I mean, I don't know how many MSPs are in the event selling space.

[00:31:56] I've got four now.

[00:31:58] Well, that's awesome.

[00:31:59] I mean, listen, everybody's servicing different people.

[00:32:02] But the backup internet or the I need internet fast and I'm not going to be able to get it timely,

[00:32:09] that's pretty regular.

[00:32:10] Yeah.

[00:32:11] Did that recovery, too?

[00:32:13] During the hurricanes that hit Florida, we shipped out a bunch of boxes.

[00:32:18] A bunch of them.

[00:32:19] And then turned off billing for our partners that were there.

[00:32:23] Okay.

[00:32:24] Well, that's nice.

[00:32:25] I mean, you know, Datto tried to do that with their DNA, but I think they discontinued it.

[00:32:28] Yeah.

[00:32:29] Well, and, you know, I'm not going to talk about that product, but there's a reason 5G works with us.

[00:32:35] We teach you to put it about chest high, right?

[00:32:39] It needs to not be in a closet.

[00:32:41] It needs to be somewhere facing somewhere.

[00:32:43] If you put it in an IT closet down in the bottom of somewhere, it's just not going to work.

[00:32:49] Yeah.

[00:32:49] Right?

[00:32:49] So you've got to know the tricks or the different pieces with that to make all those different sides go.

[00:32:56] Interesting.

[00:32:57] So.

[00:32:58] And I think Datto DNA was a 4G box.

[00:33:01] I believe you're right.

[00:33:02] Yeah.

[00:33:02] I don't know if they ever upgraded.

[00:33:03] Actually, I'm pretty sure they didn't because they ended up discontinuing it once the Kaseya team took over that.

[00:33:08] But what's funny was when I first started back in the channel, everybody could say I had multiple people talk about Datto DNA.

[00:33:15] And I was like, cool.

[00:33:16] They marketed it well, but yeah.

[00:33:18] Yeah.

[00:33:18] Well, and I was like, I'm kind of building the company the way Austin did.

[00:33:21] I go and build it in my garage.

[00:33:23] Like, I thought they were talking about how to build a company.

[00:33:26] I was like, I knew Austin.

[00:33:28] I remember him.

[00:33:28] I go, I'm kind of building it the same way.

[00:33:30] I did it in my garage.

[00:33:32] Datto DNA.

[00:33:32] And then I figured out it was a product in February at one of the conferences.

[00:33:36] I couldn't stop.

[00:33:37] We couldn't stop laughing.

[00:33:38] My whole team thought it was hilarious.

[00:33:39] I was like, you didn't even do one Google search?

[00:33:42] I'm like, no, I didn't.

[00:33:44] Yeah, DNA.

[00:33:46] Datto networking appliance, right?

[00:33:49] I mean, definitely.

[00:33:52] Like, listen, when they tried to launch it, their goal was to like, hey, we're going to replace your firewall.

[00:33:58] It really, that was their main marketing pitch.

[00:34:03] And then they're like, hey, look at all these disasters we helped offset with DNA, with the 4G.

[00:34:08] And it sounded great.

[00:34:09] It just, I don't know if they got enough adoption right away.

[00:34:14] And then I don't, they just didn't keep up with it.

[00:34:15] But that's a different problem, right?

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:18] Our partners, we've had a lot of people come over from that.

[00:34:21] We've had a couple people.

[00:34:22] There's multiple different vendors out there.

[00:34:24] There's one called Cradle Point, right?

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:27] We work with a lot of those.

[00:34:29] They'd rather work with us.

[00:34:30] Instead of, so you don't have a capital, a CapEx cost with us.

[00:34:35] We buy them, right?

[00:34:36] And we have the service.

[00:34:37] And I can turn on, turn off different modems, different SIM cards.

[00:34:43] We're working with the carriers right now to do more eSIMs.

[00:34:47] Okay.

[00:34:49] And then we're working to have boxes deployed at some of our partners ready to go.

[00:34:54] And then I just turn on an eSIM.

[00:34:56] Yeah.

[00:34:57] The eSIM, I mean, is relatively, it's only a couple of years old.

[00:35:00] I mean, it's relatively new tech.

[00:35:01] But man, even just moving in between countries, right?

[00:35:04] Because we do all these parties and conferences, whatever.

[00:35:07] But if you don't want to go on the $10 a day plan with whoever your US carrier is, right?

[00:35:12] You show up and then you literally can just buy.

[00:35:15] You used to have to go to a vending machine or a store at the airport and buy a SIM card.

[00:35:18] Now you just go on your phone and put a credit card in, you're on, which is nice.

[00:35:24] So I'm sure that makes it a lot easier.

[00:35:26] Yeah.

[00:35:27] So we're using some of that piece on that as well.

[00:35:29] We want to make sure that we have.

[00:35:31] Yeah.

[00:35:31] That's cool.

[00:35:32] So like, have you looked at 6G yet?

[00:35:34] What does that actually look like?

[00:35:35] I have.

[00:35:36] What's the difference between 5G and 6G?

[00:35:40] It's about 10 times faster than 5G.

[00:35:43] So what is the difference?

[00:35:45] So the technical shift, you had 1G, 2G, 3G, right?

[00:35:51] When they went to that 4G side of it, it was the end of the towers where the space is, right?

[00:35:59] 5G started, instead of being 17 miles apart, now they've got to be 5 miles.

[00:36:03] Wow.

[00:36:04] Wow.

[00:36:04] That's a lot of towers.

[00:36:06] A lot.

[00:36:07] But they're smaller instances, right?

[00:36:09] You don't have to have these big towers like you used to.

[00:36:12] Sure.

[00:36:12] So you have smaller instance piece.

[00:36:13] So 6G and up to about 7G will be on that same kind of tower piece.

[00:36:19] And then after that, I don't know.

[00:36:22] It's wild to watch.

[00:36:24] I was at the Mobile World Conference in Barcelona, and one of the cool things they were talking about was bringing servers back on site.

[00:36:35] And there's not enough cloud commuting power.

[00:36:37] There's not enough data going into that.

[00:36:40] We should have devices on site.

[00:36:42] I was laughing.

[00:36:43] I was sitting there talking about it, and I'm like...

[00:36:45] It's like a circle, guys.

[00:36:47] It is.

[00:36:48] Get it all out of the closet, into the cloud, back to the closet.

[00:36:51] Yep.

[00:36:51] And it was funny because I left when everything was going to the cloud.

[00:36:55] I think I remember saying to somebody at one conference, I was like, oh, nobody will be managing an exchange server in the next five years, three years.

[00:37:04] Nobody's going to have a file server, and there's not going to be any on-site software.

[00:37:10] All of that did not actually happen.

[00:37:11] Not at all.

[00:37:12] I'm glad I was wrong, right?

[00:37:14] Now I'm coming back, and now they want to move the data back.

[00:37:18] Now they're like, well, we don't need all that data.

[00:37:20] And they used a retail store as a perfect example.

[00:37:22] It was really funny.

[00:37:23] They're like, oh, we're going to put a server in the store.

[00:37:25] That's going to compute the data there, and then it'll send it off the cloud.

[00:37:29] And I'm like, so pretty much the way we used to do it, because that's what we used to do.

[00:37:35] What's old is new again?

[00:37:38] Aren't they calling that edge computing now?

[00:37:40] Edge computing.

[00:37:41] They had to come up with a new name for it?

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:45] It's edge computing and IoT, which is the Internet of Things.

[00:37:49] Little tiny devices now.

[00:37:50] Yeah.

[00:37:51] I don't know.

[00:37:52] I don't know if that moniker really took off in MSP land, but edge computing probably will.

[00:37:58] Yeah.

[00:37:58] Edge computing.

[00:37:59] Well, it's now managing servers, right?

[00:38:00] You're right on that piece of it.

[00:38:02] Yeah.

[00:38:03] IoT.

[00:38:04] All those Wawa's have like four servers in them.

[00:38:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:38:08] Oh, I know that.

[00:38:08] I love my Wawa.

[00:38:10] It's like one to run the POS system, one to run the surveillance system, one to run the gas pumps.

[00:38:16] Like, there's like four Dell servers in all these Wawa locations.

[00:38:19] We have another partner up in New England that has 22 different gas stations that he deployed all the boxes to.

[00:38:30] Really?

[00:38:31] Yeah.

[00:38:32] It was their backup Internet.

[00:38:33] It was cheaper.

[00:38:34] Steve, bandwidth like – there's an – in essence, are you not playing an insurance game here?

[00:38:40] Because like what happens if somebody really is hammering your bandwidth, you know, like they're just chewing it?

[00:38:46] Oh, we did – we did a conference and they went through 400 gigs of data in a day.

[00:38:53] Yeah.

[00:38:53] That's – on wireless, that's a lot of data, my friends.

[00:38:57] Yep.

[00:38:58] And it doesn't cost me anything more.

[00:38:59] That was the other tenet.

[00:39:00] It needs to be unlimited bandwidth.

[00:39:03] When you have that carrier – have that carrier relationship, it has to be unlimited bandwidth.

[00:39:06] So we have our T-Mobile plan specifically.

[00:39:10] Nobody else can get.

[00:39:12] It's from 2020.

[00:39:13] Hmm.

[00:39:14] In fact, we –

[00:39:15] I think the beginning of COVID.

[00:39:16] Yeah.

[00:39:16] And then we had one of our partners that was on the wrong plan.

[00:39:19] I'm like, why is this down?

[00:39:20] And I called up and our rep goes, oh, I'm so sorry.

[00:39:23] And he instantly fixed it.

[00:39:26] Wow.

[00:39:26] Because they were on a – they went through 40 gigs, right?

[00:39:29] So they went through 40 gigs that day.

[00:39:31] And I'm still mad at that partner.

[00:39:32] I'm not going to name him on here, but I did actually get to see him yesterday.

[00:39:35] He had VoIP running over our box and he didn't tell me.

[00:39:37] So – and then I'm like – he's like, well, the phones aren't.

[00:39:40] I'm like, dude, give me a sec.

[00:39:41] I jumped on and I go, I need to put QLS on.

[00:39:43] He's like, oh, I'm like, you need to tell me when there's VoIP on these things.

[00:39:46] So we have a POTS adapter for it too.

[00:39:48] So we can actually take an old POTS line, FACTS line if people got that and run it all over.

[00:39:53] So unlimited bandwidth was key.

[00:39:55] Carrier agnostic was key.

[00:39:57] And the ability – so when we did this research to do this, that was the – those were the things you needed.

[00:40:02] You had to really understand that piece of it because if you don't have that, it fails.

[00:40:08] It's not –

[00:40:08] I mean, yeah, because at any point you could literally have a crash.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:18] There's no point in having it.

[00:40:19] That or you're just going to get a really ridiculous bill that you're not ready for.

[00:40:23] Yeah.

[00:40:24] I haven't had one of those yet.

[00:40:26] I mean, clearly you've put a – you know, you've basically built a limit into your expenses because it's unlimited.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] That's great.

[00:40:35] That's awesome.

[00:40:35] 400 gigs in one day.

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:38] And the other interesting thing about that conference, it was in Vegas.

[00:40:42] So talk about my testing method, right?

[00:40:46] I'm like – I go, well, if we get away with it in a casino, then I know we'll get away with it in any hotel.

[00:40:53] That's fair.

[00:40:54] And we did.

[00:40:55] And then I called the CIO because I happened to know him.

[00:40:57] And I called him and I was like, did you see that on your network?

[00:41:00] He's like, I didn't see it.

[00:41:01] He goes, but somebody brought up that there was this really fastener thing.

[00:41:04] Is that you?

[00:41:04] I'm like, yeah, we couldn't stop laughing.

[00:41:05] It was really funny.

[00:41:06] And I go, you didn't see it at all?

[00:41:08] He's like, no.

[00:41:08] And I'm like, get it.

[00:41:10] He goes – and then he's like, technically, I couldn't do anything about it because you're just – it's just a plug.

[00:41:14] Yeah.

[00:41:15] It's just – I mean, at this point, you're just plugging into the outlet.

[00:41:17] Yeah.

[00:41:18] So you can have a hotspot.

[00:41:20] Although, at a conference earlier this quarter, they were charging for power.

[00:41:25] And literally, like, there was, like, just outlet on the wall.

[00:41:29] And I'm like, why are you charging $700 for power when, like, you didn't run a cable to my space?

[00:41:34] Yeah.

[00:41:35] It is literally on the wall like a vacuum.

[00:41:38] I should be able to plug into it.

[00:41:40] You know what they did?

[00:41:40] They took masking tape and covered the outlet.

[00:41:44] I'm like, okay.

[00:41:45] That's wild.

[00:41:47] Cool.

[00:41:48] Awesome.

[00:41:48] Well, the other thing is I'll put one in my room.

[00:41:52] Yeah.

[00:41:52] Yeah.

[00:41:53] So you're running on your internet while you're in the hotel.

[00:41:56] That's fine.

[00:41:57] We did it yesterday.

[00:41:59] Well, you're not putting that in the overhead compartment, Steve.

[00:42:02] You got to have to check that bad boy.

[00:42:04] No.

[00:42:04] No?

[00:42:05] No, I can walk right through TSA with it.

[00:42:07] Get a little bit – you get a little bit of extra attention.

[00:42:10] But –

[00:42:11] I get extra attention for just having no bags.

[00:42:15] They all bring it up.

[00:42:16] They're like, what is this?

[00:42:17] I'm like, oh, it's just a router.

[00:42:18] They're like, okay.

[00:42:19] Walk right through.

[00:42:22] We have one in a backpack that my son went right through the airport with.

[00:42:25] I'm like, you sure you want me to take it?

[00:42:26] He's like, nope.

[00:42:27] I'll take it.

[00:42:27] Went right through it.

[00:42:28] Right through TSA.

[00:42:29] So you're not checking any bags?

[00:42:32] I can check it.

[00:42:33] I have checked it.

[00:42:34] I just – because I'm lazy.

[00:42:36] But I've walked onto planes with it.

[00:42:38] We actually sent somebody to Vegas with it as carry-on.

[00:42:44] I love that.

[00:42:45] I'm a carry-on kind of guy.

[00:42:47] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Oh, no.

[00:42:48] I'm ready to go.

[00:42:49] I've been on the road for two weeks, so I do have check baggage now.

[00:42:52] But, yeah.

[00:42:52] I finally get to go home tomorrow.

[00:42:54] Oh, only two weeks?

[00:42:55] Only two weeks.

[00:42:56] Oh, okay.

[00:42:57] Jen said 10 days is too much.

[00:42:59] 10 days is too much, right?

[00:43:01] I'm on day –

[00:43:02] Don't tell her that.

[00:43:03] Yeah.

[00:43:04] It is too much.

[00:43:04] I'm on day 13.

[00:43:08] Okay.

[00:43:09] So there she is in the –

[00:43:10] Yeah, I just saw it.

[00:43:11] It is too much.

[00:43:12] Yeah.

[00:43:12] That's funny.

[00:43:13] Oh, I missed this question.

[00:43:15] Cradle point on steroids.

[00:43:16] Ah, thanks there, Pete.

[00:43:18] Yeah.

[00:43:19] Awesome.

[00:43:20] That's cool, man.

[00:43:21] So how do people – do you offer like a trial or like –

[00:43:26] I do.

[00:43:27] We do.

[00:43:27] So we have a relationship with ASCII just because I've been there.

[00:43:31] So if they are an ASCII member, I will give them more POCs, proof of concept.

[00:43:37] So we do free.

[00:43:39] Absolutely.

[00:43:39] I'll ship it to you and ship it back.

[00:43:42] 14-day POCs.

[00:43:44] I like that.

[00:43:44] That's the right number of days.

[00:43:46] Yep.

[00:43:47] Put it out there.

[00:43:47] Let's test it.

[00:43:49] Let's see how it works.

[00:43:50] I've had three come back in the last 10 months.

[00:43:53] That's it.

[00:43:54] That's pretty good.

[00:43:56] Yeah.

[00:43:56] So it works.

[00:43:57] It's put your money where your mouth is, right?

[00:44:00] I agree.

[00:44:00] I just think it's always been – when I was an MSP, that's what I wanted my vendors to do.

[00:44:05] So as we've run it, we try to be that vendor, right?

[00:44:09] I wish every – like hearing – like as I've been asking questions, right?

[00:44:13] All of your answers are like this is what happens when you have a company that isn't running from the playbook of somebody else, right?

[00:44:20] What do I mean by that?

[00:44:21] If you've watched these podcasts, guys, and I'm sure you have, hopefully, we talk about all the time.

[00:44:27] The VCPE playbook, right?

[00:44:28] The three-year contracts that everybody doesn't like and the minimums and the bronze gold silver tiers and the billing issues, right?

[00:44:36] Like all of that is frustrating.

[00:44:38] But like this model here is great.

[00:44:42] It's what I've been preaching forever.

[00:44:43] This is the model we all enjoyed before that happened.

[00:44:47] So like Steve left right before all this hit, it seems like, in MSP land.

[00:44:52] And so when he came back 10 months ago, he's like, I'm going to go with what I liked.

[00:44:56] I love you, man.

[00:44:57] Make it easy to buy.

[00:44:58] It's funny when I'm up on stage, I go, if I don't believe in my product, you shouldn't either.

[00:45:04] Fair.

[00:45:05] And it usually gets a good laugh.

[00:45:07] They're like, I'm like, I don't have – if you start to do that – well, you know this.

[00:45:13] I have a background in VC and growth capital.

[00:45:16] So when you do that, you're just guaranteeing revenue, but you're losing customer.

[00:45:20] Right.

[00:45:21] Customer nutrition rate becomes horrible.

[00:45:23] Growth.

[00:45:23] So you're treating one for the other.

[00:45:24] Two very important metrics in the Shark Tank analytics bubble.

[00:45:28] Yeah.

[00:45:29] That's awesome, man.

[00:45:30] Well, I mean, I love the fact that you went through MSP lane.

[00:45:36] You were like, I'm good.

[00:45:37] I'm checking out.

[00:45:38] I'm going to go do other stuff.

[00:45:39] And then you're like, I'm coming back.

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:42] You couldn't stay away.

[00:45:46] I really – this is the only industry that has this kind of camaraderie.

[00:45:50] And especially with MSPs themselves, right?

[00:45:54] That camaraderie of, wow, you know, I do this.

[00:45:57] You should try that.

[00:45:58] And when I left with Spam after Spam Soap is kind of when I left, right?

[00:46:03] I really – I did miss that.

[00:46:05] Like, you don't have that in the alcohol industry.

[00:46:07] Like, you don't have that in – we have a dating app.

[00:46:10] Like, I'm not able to call the guy at Bumble, right?

[00:46:12] And go, hey, what are you guys doing that works?

[00:46:15] It doesn't happen, right?

[00:46:17] So – but you can do that in the MSP role.

[00:46:20] You can do that with – we can do this with other vendors.

[00:46:22] Hey, what worked with you guys?

[00:46:23] How did you do it?

[00:46:24] And you don't have the same piece that I think you do in the MSP.

[00:46:29] It's one of those things.

[00:46:30] I did miss it.

[00:46:31] I didn't realize I missed it until I was here for about – until about June.

[00:46:35] Then I was like, you know what?

[00:46:36] I really did enjoy this.

[00:46:38] I'm staying over here.

[00:46:38] I'm staying in my lane now.

[00:46:40] So –

[00:46:41] Well, welcome back.

[00:46:42] Thank you.

[00:46:43] How do we –

[00:46:43] So, Wawa, I get to go get to Wawa's.

[00:46:46] I mean, Wawa, that's like breathing air here in Philadelphia.

[00:46:51] Yeah.

[00:46:51] Or Florida, for that matter.

[00:46:53] Or a lot of the East Coast.

[00:46:55] It's funny.

[00:46:56] I introduced – we have Leonard DiMicelli, who's our channel chief.

[00:47:01] Wawa, and he's like – at an event, I ran across the highway in Baltimore to go to Wawa.

[00:47:07] And then came back – turnpikes, whatever the highway.

[00:47:09] So, come back over, and I'm like, what is this?

[00:47:12] I'm like, it's a sandwich.

[00:47:13] He's like, this is a high-end sandwich.

[00:47:15] And I'm like, oh.

[00:47:16] He goes, where did you get it?

[00:47:17] I go, the food mart right over there.

[00:47:20] And then CJ goes, this is a gas station.

[00:47:22] I'm like, it's not a gas station.

[00:47:25] That came later.

[00:47:26] That came later.

[00:47:27] The gas station is a food mart.

[00:47:29] All right.

[00:47:30] So, for everybody that's listening to this and not actually seeing it, so the name of the company is Rhythms, R-Y-T-H-M-Z.

[00:47:39] I assume the website is rhythms.com.

[00:47:42] Yep.

[00:47:43] Rhythms.com, rhythms5g.com.

[00:47:45] I bought a lot of them.

[00:47:46] Yeah.

[00:47:46] But it is rhythms.com.

[00:47:47] And since I didn't tell you Steve's last name, if you're listening to this, you can Google him.

[00:47:52] Maybe you'll find multiple of them because apparently there's more than one now.

[00:47:54] But LinkedIn, I'm sure you're on all the channels.

[00:47:57] Steve, C-O-P-E-L-A-N-D.

[00:48:00] Yep.

[00:48:01] Got it.

[00:48:03] So.

[00:48:04] LinkedIn is the best.

[00:48:05] You don't want to be on my Facebook.

[00:48:06] I talk too much smack on that.

[00:48:09] Some football smack?

[00:48:10] Football smack.

[00:48:11] A little bit.

[00:48:13] Hey, that's just part of being somebody from this part of the world.

[00:48:17] So all good.

[00:48:19] And so I think you said, like you dabble in both sides.

[00:48:23] You've done some communications events and obviously some MSP industry events.

[00:48:27] I think you said you had already planned next year and we're doing this at the end of the year 24.

[00:48:31] So if somebody wanted to see you in person, where do you think you're going to be in 25?

[00:48:38] All of the ASCII events, a couple other ones, PAX 8.

[00:48:41] Your events we've got on our calendar to do.

[00:48:46] So I'm everywhere.

[00:48:47] I'm like Beetlejuice.

[00:48:48] If you say my name three times, I pop up.

[00:48:52] So we had one partner that goes, they had their own industry event.

[00:48:57] And they're like, hey, there's a bunch of farmers and things.

[00:49:00] They want to talk about these 5G boxes.

[00:49:02] And I go, okay, what time?

[00:49:04] He goes, the meeting is next week.

[00:49:05] I'm like, all right, let me know what's the nearest hotel.

[00:49:09] And he's like, wait, you're going to come out?

[00:49:11] And I'm like, yeah.

[00:49:12] So I'll do that with farms.

[00:49:14] If there's enough people, let's talk together.

[00:49:17] Let's close them together.

[00:49:18] I love closing deals.

[00:49:21] And we did walk away with four farms.

[00:49:24] And he's like, this is amazing.

[00:49:25] He's like, he goes, you're good at this.

[00:49:27] I'm like, yeah.

[00:49:28] When you talk with them and you're, you know, understanding industry.

[00:49:31] I think one of the MSPs benefits is understanding that you get so much experience in all these industries.

[00:49:40] Right.

[00:49:40] Which is cool.

[00:49:42] But yeah, LinkedIn for sure.

[00:49:43] LinkedIn is linkedin.com slash Steve Copeland.

[00:49:46] I've been on there that long.

[00:49:48] So I don't have a, I don't have a Steve one, two, three.

[00:49:51] Yeah.

[00:49:52] Yeah.

[00:49:53] Very nice.

[00:49:54] Yeah.

[00:49:54] Steve, I can't wait to see you out in the road.

[00:49:58] I know we go back and forth a bunch.

[00:50:00] The Eagles are hopefully in a good position for the postseason this year.

[00:50:04] So I'm sure there's some banter going back and forth.

[00:50:06] Thank you, by the way, for whatever you did down in Arizona this past weekend.

[00:50:09] Cause the Eagles clinched the playoff spot because you, I don't know, got them to lose down there.

[00:50:14] I threw some juju that way.

[00:50:15] It was pretty good.

[00:50:16] That was good.

[00:50:17] I was like, oh, what dude, whatever game you're at, we need that get them to lose.

[00:50:21] You're like, I'm on it.

[00:50:22] I'm good.

[00:50:22] Started yelling.

[00:50:23] I yelled at a kicker or two.

[00:50:24] It was pretty good.

[00:50:25] That was beautiful, man.

[00:50:26] Well, we have, let's hope our kicker here can get his stuff.

[00:50:28] Yeah.

[00:50:29] Yeah.

[00:50:31] Anyway.

[00:50:32] Thank you very much for jumping on.

[00:50:33] By the way.

[00:50:35] Hope you enjoyed the Flow Rider concert.

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Jen still can't stop beaming about, you know, the Air Force One that she got that he, you know,

[00:50:46] he signed and threw out there.

[00:50:48] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:49] That's awesome.

[00:50:50] She, she, she walks around with it as a necklace, like Flavor Flake.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:54] Well, Leonard walks around whining about his finger.

[00:50:56] Cause I guess one of the guys cut his finger with one of his change or something.

[00:50:59] You're kidding.

[00:51:00] No, no.

[00:51:01] He's still whining about it.

[00:51:03] Really?

[00:51:03] Yeah.

[00:51:04] I didn't know that.

[00:51:05] Sorry, man.

[00:51:05] No, it's all right.

[00:51:06] All right.

[00:51:07] He's a big guy.

[00:51:08] Like a chain.

[00:51:09] Like I'm wearing around.

[00:51:10] Nothing with the, I think it was the mic or something.

[00:51:12] Hit his hand.

[00:51:13] He cut his hand really bad.

[00:51:14] So we stitched it and we wrapped it up and he's like, Oh, my hand.

[00:51:18] I'm like, don't worry about your hand.

[00:51:19] You were on stage with Flo Rida.

[00:51:21] You were singing with him.

[00:51:22] You know, I guess they're not, they're not buying the stuff at Walmart, man.

[00:51:26] That's the real chain.

[00:51:27] It was a real thing.

[00:51:30] Tell him I said, I'm sorry that he got hurt there.

[00:51:32] Well, we'll set, we'll set him a box of bandages with some Eagles.

[00:51:36] Some Philadelphia Eagle boo-boo bandages.

[00:51:38] Exactly.

[00:51:39] Exactly.

[00:51:39] Well, we're looking forward to next year.

[00:51:41] Yep.

[00:51:42] Stay in touch for everyone else.

[00:51:43] Check out rhythms.com.

[00:51:46] Steve Copeland on LinkedIn.

[00:51:48] Definitely get a copy of this session.

[00:51:50] We'll be posted online a little bit later on today.

[00:51:52] Go back, rewind it.

[00:51:54] It's a cool opportunity, guys.

[00:51:55] And it sounds like it's packaged for you.

[00:51:57] It's the way you want to buy.

[00:51:59] It's kind of low risk.

[00:52:01] So what do you got to do, you know, other than try it?

[00:52:05] Sounds like it's worthwhile, you know, kick, you know, give a kick, kick the tires, 14 day trial.

[00:52:09] Maybe it sounds like it could be out there.

[00:52:12] But it sounds like a backup internet option.

[00:52:14] If you don't have two internets, you know, like the two wireline internets or that you can rely on.

[00:52:19] This is a good, it's a good backup internet option.

[00:52:22] Yeah.

[00:52:22] I like it.

[00:52:23] All right, my friend.

[00:52:24] Enjoy Dallas.

[00:52:25] All right.

[00:52:26] All right.

[00:52:26] I'm going to get home soon.

[00:52:27] Thank you.

[00:52:28] All right.

[00:52:29] You got it, guy.

[00:52:30] See ya.

[00:52:31] See ya.