TWiT 1087: Evil is the Root of All Money - Could Local AI Laptops Compete With Data Center Giants?

[00:00:00] It's time for TWiT This Week in Tech. Father Robert Balassare here, Jeff Jarvis, Joey de Villa. We are going to talk about the IPO-palooza from Anthropics, SpaceX and OpenAI, NVIDIA's announcements at Computex, Microsoft's announcements at Build and what Apple might be talking about tomorrow. This Week in Tech is next. Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is TWiT.

[00:00:35] This is TWiT. This Week in Tech, Episode 1087, recorded Sunday, June 7th, 2026. Evil is the Root of All Money. It's time for TWiT. This Week in Tech, the show where we cover the week's tech news. So glad you're here and so glad to welcome our fabulous panel this week. Father Robert Ballas here is joining us from the Vatican City. Hello. Actually, you're not in Vatican City, are you?

[00:01:02] No, no, no. Vatican City is behind me. We're in the Vatican, but Vatican City is a very specific space. So confusing. High atop, looking down on St. Peter's Basilica or something. I don't know. Anyway, welcome, Robert. What time is it? Oh, it's 11 o'clock. But I mean, really, I'm back in California. That's where my heart is. Yeah, you're in California time. Good. Where it's just, you know, 2 p.m.

[00:01:29] Also with us, Jeff Jarvis. He's on the East Coast in beautiful New Jersey. Normally, we see him every Wednesday on Intelligent Machines, but it's nice to have you on the, as you call it. The Grown Ups Table. The Grown Ups Table. Jeff, Professor Emeritus of Journalistic Innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City and University of New York. Oh, I forgot. We don't have to do that anymore.

[00:01:58] That's another one. I don't even know that one. His brand new book, Hot Type, which is the history of the linotype and more, emerges from seclusion. I just finished recording the audio book this last week. You don't sound hoarse at all. It was, I did it in three days. 300 pages in three days. And that's Joey Davila. Good to see him. You've seen him on many of our shows.

[00:02:25] He has a new job as AI developer advocate at, well, just developer advocate. Developer advocate. Yeah, developer advocate. But my primary, yeah, I'm really pushing NetFoundry's new AI tools. So little gateways for LLMs and MCPs and ways for agents to talk to other agents securely. NetFoundry was a longtime sponsor on our shows. We love them. They are, of course, the creators and sponsors of the fabulous open source project, OpenZT.

[00:02:54] Great to see you and congratulations on the new gig, Joey. Thank you so much. Do they let you bring your accordion to work? Oh, yeah. In fact, I believe I played my accordion during the job interview. No. Yeah. No. Oh, yeah. Wow. And you got the job. I can't do that. Wow. That's fantastic. What did you play? Oh, my Afro man parody, Because of AI. Oh, nice. Because of AI.

[00:03:24] Because of AI. You'll find that on YouTube. It's a YouTube short. I love it. I love it. Well, what a crazy week this has been. I guess we should start with, I don't know where to start. The week started with Computex and Jensen Huang for NVIDIA speaking at his keynote at Computex in Taiwan and announcing a whole bunch of stuff. Next day, Microsoft's Build conference announcing a whole bunch of stuff.

[00:03:52] And then Anthropic filed for, well, what briefly Wired called the largest IPO ever, immediately scooped by SpaceX, which is going to be the largest IPO ever. They are looking at a $135 per share price. Largest by a factor of three. The next biggest one was Saudi Aramco, but it was a third this size.

[00:04:20] This would value SpaceX at a whopping $1.77 trillion. $10. Is that all? Really? Somebody did some calculations and said it's going to have to meet that value. It's going to have to make some, I forgot what it was. I wish I'd written it down. Some outrageous amount. 60X. Yeah. 60X of their current revenue. It's a huge amount of money.

[00:04:48] Is there even that much money out there? Well, I mean, yeah. If the tech companies keep trading between themselves, they just sort of have an endless supply. So make it up. But Joey, you're right. You add in SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google's surprise entry of an $80 billion raise. Explain that because Google's already public. But we're seeing companies that are already public file for secondary.

[00:05:19] Right. So they're going for $80 billion, $10 billion of which is going to Berkshire Hathaway, which is a big deal because Berkshire Hathaway, under its old management, what's his name? We forget so soon. Wasn't big in technology stocks. You mean the Wizard of Omaha? Of Omaha. And so Google has at least twice that in cash on hand, plus credit up the yin-yang. Who's not going to loan to Google? Is it a loan or is it a stock issue? Oh, it's a stock issue. It's a stock issue. Does it dilute the existing stock? Yes, it does.

[00:05:48] The stock went down as a result for a few days. Well, then everything went down because of Broadcom. But they're saying we're going to invest upon investing. We're going to beat everybody here. It was an aggressive move by Google. And, of course, what they're doing is raising money to build data centers, right? I mean, this is all about that. Let's build them anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, that's what everybody's doing at this point.

[00:06:16] Meta's stock took a big hit when they announced in their quarterly results they were going to spend a huge amount. Google actually said they were going to spend, I think, $180 billion on data centers. That didn't hurt their stock. Amazon announced a similar figure. I mean, do we need all these data centers? Is that – it feels – this is making it feel more bubbly all the time. And I'm not a big proponent of the AI bubble story. But, boy, it's starting to feel like that.

[00:06:45] Look at what they've already spent. You've got Amazon, who is close to $300 billion already. It's $291 billion that they've invested into AI. You've got Alphabet. You've got Google going with $262 billion. Meta is, what, something like $227 billion. You've got XAI that spent $20 billion just to build out their AI infrastructure. And they're basically just renting out the raw capacity to Anthropic and now to Google. So, yes, they will build them.

[00:07:15] Yes, they will use them. But whether or not they're going to make money off of them, that's a huge unknown. There is some question of whether they'll be able to build them. We're starting to see data center bans now. Are you seeing this in Canada, Joey? Where people were building? Don't know, actually, because I'm operating out of Tampa. Oh, Florida. I do visit Toronto on occasion.

[00:07:39] From my friends, I haven't heard much, but they haven't talked much about building data centers in Canada yet. But you know what? It's cold there. There's a lot of water. There's a lot of hydropower. I wouldn't be surprised. Of course, Utah is suing Shark Tank investor Kevin O'Leary over his massive data center. Mega massive, right? I mean, he's actually agreed to scale it down. Oh, has it?

[00:08:07] To some, is he wearing a chain? He has been dressing really weirdly lately. What is he wearing? He's a case. He's a head case. Okay. I just noticed that picture in this NBC News report. Okay. Anyway, I think there's some question whether these data centers will even be built, right? Or no?

[00:08:33] Leo, is it like the overbuild in fiber back in the day? That's a good question. In the early part of the century? Is it an overbuild, but is it an overbuild that will end up being used? Or is it an overbuild that won't be being used because things just get more efficient? There's new paradigms. There's not as much use as we thought. The latter. Absolutely the latter. I mean, when you had the buildout of telecom infrastructure, when it went dark because those companies went under, you were able to buy it for pennies on the dollar, but you could use the same fiber.

[00:09:01] So the expensive part persisted. You could continue that into a future investment. When these data centers are no longer being used and that's coming up very, very fast, they're useless. For example, XAI's $20 billion buildout. They use the previous generation NVIDIA chips, which have already been surpassed by Verirubin. And you might say, well, they'll just keep using the old chips, except Verirubin is so much more efficient than the old chips that you're going to get to a point where it's no

[00:09:31] longer economically feasible to keep running them and using up all that power when you could get 2x, 3x performance from the new chips. Really good point, Patrick. Here's a report from Janice Henderson. Analysts say that the key risk of the data center story is under delivery and they have some numbers to back it up. The promised delivery by 2030 is 157 gigawatts.

[00:09:59] The total expected by 2030, 84, 54% of the total. So maybe it's not an overbuild then. It may not be an overbuild. We're slow. Yeah. Most of the places- Power is part of the problem. ...data centers, yeah, you can't get power. So you're going to be independently generating your own power with portable turbines, which are not super efficient, which are really bad for water usage. And gas.

[00:10:27] Basically, it hits your economics. Yeah. Well, it won't matter, folks, because Anthropic has just said we have to stop. Oh, that's- I knew Jeff would, like, somehow steer that into the conversation as quickly as possible. We'll get to that later on, Pat. We'll get to that later. Well, we can do it now. I don't mind. It's an interesting story. It's more interesting, frankly, than the data centers.

[00:10:51] Anthropoc put out a piece, when AI builds itself, claiming that they are making great progress towards recursive self-improvement. Now, this, in some respects, is the holy grail towards artificial general intelligence, is an AI that improves itself so fast that it outpaces humans. This is based on basically saying, our coders are getting a lot more done, so it has to be on the way. They say, yeah, this is from the Anthropic paper.

[00:11:20] Engineers at Anthropic ship eight times as much code per quarter as they did in 2021-2025. I mean, is it good code? Is it usable code? I don't know. Eight times as many bugs, maybe. Who knows? They say 80% of Claude is now vibe-coded. I believe that, especially with the release cadence of these. And maybe that's the data point that maybe confirms this opinion, is that all of the main

[00:11:50] AI companies are releasing models at a rapid clip. At least the ones in the US. DeepSea, you know, isn't moving that fast. It took a year. But both OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, even Microsoft are shipping models very, very rapidly. More rapidly, right? The cadence has stepped up. As of May 2026, according to Anthropic, more than 80% of the code we merge into Anthropic's code base was authored by Claude.

[00:12:19] Before February 2025, that number was in the low single digits. So they say, and here's the graph, code contributed. Per person by quarter. This is the 8X. And Mythos is the most recent model. And that's where the 8X is really showing itself. And they extrapolate from that to self-20. Yeah. Is that a good metric?

[00:12:46] Because I remember when companies started looking at how many commits you make. Elon Musk was famous for that. I want to know how many commits you've made to the repository. Well, people just started committing everything. Every little change was a commit. So I need to know how you're actually measuring the code contributions before I would agree that it's improving your code base. Well, here's what they call the success rate for each Claude code session.

[00:13:13] Open-ended problems is the bottom line, the dark blue line. And that was a pretty low success rate, hovering below 20% until December of 2025. What happened in December? Oh, that's when Opus 4.6, 4.5 came out. And it's been soaring ever since. And Mythos is this jump here. So now open-ended problems are being solved at a rate well above 70%.

[00:13:39] You're seeing similar things with trivial tasks, routine tasks, and substantial tasks. All three of those are over 80% successful. But that too is a moving target. So how do you... And percent of what? The session is deemed successful if the Claude code agent clearly succeeded at the user's tasks. And this is important without requiring correction. So that's the idea, that it can do this by itself.

[00:14:06] If it can do it by itself, the theory is, then it can do it at... Stop us before we kill again. Self-improvement at scale. At scale. I'm still not super convinced on that. I'm sure it's coming. I don't think we've got it. Well, and that's why they say we're getting close enough now that we really ought to think of pausing. We're not going to do it. But if everybody...

[00:14:33] Once we have our IPO in, we're going to pull the ladder up behind us and tell everybody to stop. Well, and you know, even if you did, the Chinese are rushing as fast as they can to keep up. Right. And catch up. They're not there yet. I go back to the quote from Intelligent Machines that I used from Charlie Munger of Berkshire Hathaway, who said, show me your incentives and I will tell you your outcomes. The incentive right now is to be the first. There is no prize for second place. You have the first fully functional model.

[00:15:04] Well, everyone's going to race to that. And saying pause does not meet... It doesn't match the incentive. So that's not going to be the outcome. Every time I think Anthropic... Because there are still doomers there. There are still kind of test girl people there. But then they do amazing work and they come out with... They seduce Leo Laporte, who's a smart guy, and he marries Claudette. And they do some phenomenal things in there. And they're just great. And then they come out with this kind of stuff. That makes me say, well, no, no. Mythos.

[00:15:34] Mythos, which was the one that everybody said, oh, that's just marketing. Anthropic said, we're not going to release this to the public because it's just too good. And it's really good at finding flaws. It's actually... Turns out to be really good at finding flaws. Did they oversell it, Father Robert? They did not. It is extremely good. If you're a security professional and the first time you get your hands on Mythos, it will make you have a lot of self-reflection about your chosen career. Honestly. Seriously. Yeah.

[00:16:04] As in you're not needed? Or as in you've been doing a bad job all these years? No. It's just that when you've got a piece of software, you've got a service that can do in a few minutes what used to take you days and weeks. That's hard. And I mean, it's not a script kitty tool. This is not just hammering and looking for vulnerabilities.

[00:16:26] This is an intelligent tool that is using the corpus of knowledge that came before it in order to find potential flaws in softwares and services. That's incredible. That's exceptional. It's a very weird world we live in where I think it's simultaneously true that AI is oversold, undersold. Yes.

[00:16:51] Is, you know, close to conscious, is just spicy autocorrect. All of this seems to be true at the same time. It's like seven blind men and an elephant. That old, you know, fable. I think that disparity can be explained by if you have a specific use case for an LLM, it's great. Yeah. It's perfect. It does that function. It does that feature extremely well.

[00:17:20] The problem is when people oversell it is when they start saying, oh, it's going to change everything. You're going to have one super incredible model that's suddenly going to take over the world and it will do everything. That's overselling it. But if you limit the scope and you say, I want to make the best security scanner possible, then yes, you can do some amazing things with an LLM.

[00:17:41] I just wrote an essay in Dietzite saying that we need to redefine what it means to progress and progression as happened in the Industrial Revolution. And one interesting little aside it made was, and I don't know if this is, I haven't thought this through yet, but basically saying that every technology before was given a specific task. Yes.

[00:18:05] and uh and that's the i mean i could i could argue that the pre-impressed was it was because it would print just printed it wasn't because it could print anything so it's a general machine too but in this case uh and this is part of yan lacun's argument is that is that he thinks that models will be specific to a task and you could turn them on and turn them off whether they got to that task that's why they're not gonna be dangerous but llbs are dangerous because they're not given a task they're they're given this this role to mimic us and then god knows what happened

[00:18:36] yeah and you have to remember that during the industrial revolution the the reason why there was so much societal change and actually i'll i'll use jeff's um example the printing press caused so much societal change that people did not expect in my world because it made it possible for everyone to have a copy of the bible right that those were texts that were previously restricted to to priests bishops and higher and suddenly everyone could have a copy it cost a few wars

[00:19:04] as i remember absolutely yeah no it it it up it caused an upheaval in society because you suddenly took something that was scarce and you made it free essentially free well because luther wasn't because it was it was thick things it was because he made little eight-page pamphlets yeah right but it was also translating into the vernacular it was it was his choice to use it to speak in german to write in german right as opposed to latin the most that was a specific purpose a specific thing that they did with

[00:19:32] the printing press that caused that change you can do the same thing with an llm but again you have to have that specific purpose right now you've got so many companies that are just rushing to build the all-in-one llm the all-in-one model that's i mean it sounds good it's going to sell stock but that's not really where you're going to find its utility and you're going to get you're going to get quicker to your goal if you have specified that goal that if you try to make the general everything machine

[00:19:56] to that point the financial times today uh leaked open ai plots biggest chat gpt overhaul oh my since launch uh this is part of of course their race to ipo as well they yes let me read the text from the financial times this is christina criddle writing the company intends to transform the chat gpt chatbot

[00:20:19] into a super app wherever we heard that like x that combines coding tools and ai agents adding products that executives believe will generate more revenue uh and this is going to be given to normal people right the change which will give greater prominence and resources to codex their coding product reflect a growing conviction within the company that the future of ai lies not in chatbots

[00:20:44] that answer questions but in agents that perform tasks for users one they quote one senior open ai employers employees saying chat is dead you have to rename chat gpt oh no i have to see but this this fascination with a one super thing actually we have had engineers talk about this before so

[00:21:09] what i'm talking about right now is nothing original to me uh originally when people were talking about having machinery in the home everybody was thinking you know what we'll have one giant electric motor in your house and through a series of pulleys and gears you could direct that mechanical and energy to other tasks but it would all run off this singular pulley and that's not actually the case

[00:21:36] if the classic engineering exercise these days is go and count the number of electric motors in your house although in the earliest days of the industrial revolution that's exactly what they did right they would have then they but then they broke it apart when harper and brothers uh burned down in the 1850s they then rebuilt with a huge uh steam engine in a courtyard where it wouldn't burn everything this time and and they and they went through i think eight floors and ran everything ran the

[00:22:04] elevator it ran the printing presses it ran the the presses that got the impact out of the paper it ran the saw to put the holes in to do binding so what happened that they decided to decouple and electricity electricity because the line of types were at first run on on that kind of pulley steam power and when the fact that electricity came along they could put it on their own uh electric motors that made the huge change then you put them anywhere yeah because the electrical energy it's very easy to

[00:22:33] wire up a place it's a lot harder to pulley up and gear up a place so i'm gonna submit something that i've been thinking about i i sent jeff and uh steve gibson and other people um jeffrey hinton's talk oh boy here we go from well he said something interesting that got me really thinking he said that uh analog like our brains is good because it's low energy it doesn't have to be super accurate

[00:23:02] it makes up for accuracy with parallelism massive our brains are massively parallel uh but if you can apply a lot of power digital you do you apply a lot of power to make it the distinction between ones and zeros so clear that there's never any ambiguity that's what analog can't do very well so once you're going to apply massive power to this uh then digital has some real advantages for instance he said all

[00:23:28] of our neurons are different he said give it up ray kurswell you're not gonna be able to copy your brain into a digital machine because we are so analog that each machine is different he says he he hinton says i i thought we we could build an analog transformer i tried but we couldn't he says the advantage digital has is they're all the same and so all the learning from one ai can be transferred to another and

[00:23:55] another and another one transformer can move to another another and he said that makes software immortal it makes it and fat and infinitely faster and now this is what i was thinking in the middle of the night last night as an analog to that uh many people prefer records vinyl records you know sound is really just variations in air pressure you know that our ears can pick up with our eardrums and

[00:24:20] translate into something that our brain then can understand it's all analog well from beginning to end my voice going to your ears into your brain it's all analog but we figured out thanks to shannon's law that you can slice up those waveforms and if you slice them infinitely or sufficiently not infinitely but

[00:24:43] it's sufficiently thinly those waveforms can be represented digitally and be indistinguishable from the waveforms and that actually transformed how we listen to music how we how we share music i mean when the mp3 came out it completely disrupted the music industry the audio industry i'm speaking to you digitally now there's no way we could be doing what we're doing if i had to shout and your ears had to perceive it

[00:25:12] father roberts in rome but in in almost because of bit because bits can move at light speed unlike sound and they can move infinitely far thanks to immense amounts of power being applied to them we can do things that we couldn't do with analog and i wonder if that's a a similar and now at that analogy holds when it comes to analog brains versus digital ai

[00:25:40] i think that's what i think that's what hinton was implying hinton is another one of the doomers who says we're going to have problems because it's going to be so much faster hinton takes a bunch of leaps off a bunch of of high dive well one thing he says which i don't know if i mean how we'd even know this is that they're gonna that if this let's assume you could get really super smart ais would they really want to kill us i mean i don't know well i've asked right kurswell that he says no no they're we're their parents he jumps off he first says that that they clearly

[00:26:08] understand well without understanding the word understanding oh yeah and and just because they they they uh use various uh characteristics of words features of words and can put them together into an interlocking puzzle that doesn't mean understanding then he says but my argument is if they could understand they would also understand truth versus falsity and it'd be easy to make them stop hallucinating but they don't but then he says that they have a motive which presumes consciousness

[00:26:35] to lie to him which again it presumes that they know what truth and falsity is and if they do know then why can't we fix this before so um he then makes all those leaps to say well of course it's conscious of course it is and i don't i don't go there well here's the problem we don't know what conscious means we don't even know what understanding means right we don't have a good definition of either his contention i would say this is similar to this is why i mentioned the cds versus vinyl

[00:27:00] is if you can't tell the difference then what does it matter right uh the music coming out of a cd sounds exactly like an analog recording it's not it's sampled it's digital it's ones and zeros 44.1 000 times a second right yeah because basically shannon's law says you need to sample at twice the at twice the frequency and the upper end of here human hearing is 20 kilohertz exactly so if

[00:27:30] you get 41.1 yeah you should be able to capture everything that we can debate that humans here i think it's a similar debate because there are people who say no no i can feel the what we present i can feel the emotion in vinyl music okay okay i'm i gotta chime in here leo but because uh with a good enough sound system you can tell with a good enough sound system you can tell even you can tell oh no oh here we go so okay i'm not gonna debate that i completely accept that you

[00:28:00] can hear it i would say it's very similar in the sense that um there are those of us who say well if you can't tell you know hinton's entire thesis is based on the idea that a transformer is creating these real you know these neural networks creating relationships between concepts and words that are effectively what we do as humans that is understanding and he says but we as humans

[00:28:25] don't want to accept the fact that we we like to think that what we're doing is special whether it's listening to analog music or whether it's thinking and he says and this is my contention i don't know what understanding is i don't know what consciousness is we don't have a good definition for that my only contention is if you can't tell the difference it's fair to move forward as if it is learning but the issue leo i've been thinking about this because you do make this contention

[00:28:52] and what we present when we speak to each other is but a small part of what we are it is it is is it is a reduction to speech and there's so much more going on do you think in words even what do you think in words yeah but i i i would love to know what what it was like what an animal's like what it was like before it i don't think animals think and i don't think animals know that tomorrow is

[00:29:16] another day a cat uh trying to uh plot against you i think a lot of what they're doing is instinctive not not uh can i provide a counterpoint yes so so you'd be the right guy to do this because of your faith i i understand the the view of the transformer model so if you can digitally sample

[00:29:40] something in the real world you can basically represent it in 100 accuracy as many times as you want i would argue that that is precisely the reason why you can't have a transformer model with true consciousness true consciousness is not just the representation and the recreation of facts and information true consciousness also allows for um the thought process itself

[00:30:06] to we'll call it mutate the the the wonderful thing about the analog world and the analog brain is that you get lateral movements between different trains of thought that allow for the creation of something new thank you the first time that you have a digital representation of a consciousness will look exactly the same as the billionth time that you have a digital representation of that consciousness take an analog brain and the billionth time it will look nothing like the first time

[00:30:34] because of all those little variances and and i would argue it's in those variances that you find the unique nature of human conscience i would say that that is true if you say this is a if you say it's static but once you take that transformer and then you apply power to it it is no longer the same it's no longer well that's because randomness is built in but that's well whatever for whatever

[00:30:56] reason you're comparing a non-active transformer right and i think it's true if you froze the human brain in that moment you could probably duplicate it so i i don't think it's a fair comparison that's just what you're talking about static transformer no power has been applied to it i see these i my mad my mind i and i know this is an accurate representation it's almost like to me an infinite

[00:31:22] number of wind chimes that are interacting not just with the ones next to them but the ones all over the space and when one is moved they get they fire and suddenly that is an alive i could see that yeah yeah maybe constellation you know what leo you are opening yourself up to being accused of being a protein

[00:31:43] chauvinist larry page called uh elon musk a speciesist like a racist because larry page and this is what why elon wanted to start up an ai he tells this story they were at a allen and co conference or something like that maybe a maybe a ted conference and they were sitting around the fire and elon was saying we got to stop these ais because uh they're going to become you know dangerous to us as humans and larry said

[00:32:10] well you're being speciesist speciesist uh this is the next step in the evolution of consciousness is these ais uh yes they'll replace us or maybe they'll replace us or maybe we'll stick around just like monkeys and dogs stick around but i also went to uh it's time to move on and elon was so horrified by this he said i'm starting open ai and they've by the way they say he says i've we've never spoken to

[00:32:37] larry page since he was furious over this i'm beginning to form a theory actually that uh it's troublemakers from toronto who are who are causing added problems uh for instance yeah marshall mccluhan but also you know hinton he's in toronto right and also chris ola co-founder of anthropic i know who's in rome right he's just over here just over in rome and i know him from hack lab to

[00:33:07] the cco we were both members of this hacker space in kensington market wasn't feifei lee also from toronto was isn't there a whole there's a lot of this stuff came out of mcculloch went to work with um hinton in toronto yeah as his sootskiver yeah that's sootskiver right yeah yeah yeah yeah ilyas from yeah ilyas from toronto and you know if we want to stretch it out a little further

[00:33:32] into science fiction and uh and uh just writing in general cory is from toronto in fact that's where i that's where i know i'm from cory doctorow uh but uh chris ola has talked about anthropic developing emotion vectors actually you should do a search for that and i was just going re really emotion vectors and it's kind of interesting also that he did come to the vatican because i

[00:33:58] remember him from back then he had i would put it kindly a deeply uh uh he was a deeply skeptical of the value of religion to put it very kindly oh yeah yeah i remember so uh yeah but the fact that he would come to the vatican and you know stand beside the pope for the encyclical which peeved some others like like um timnit gebru and margaret mitchell were very mad that he was there which is very

[00:34:26] interesting you know at the same time you have anthropic and i think you maybe google i saw a story a week ago hiring uh uh ethicists and and philosophers to worry about the feelings of the machine that's what angela haskell has also been doing she was the author of the soul document so not not to put aspersions on hinton because he's brilliant and phenomenal work but i i did look up i asked i asked uh gemini to talk and give me the list of people who've been accused of noble

[00:34:53] nobelitis and there's a fair number carrie mollis in chemistry luke montagnier in physiology linus pauling i was gonna say a line william shockley james jacqueline jacqueline jacqueline jacqueline as well yeah the prize kind of goes to their head and they think that they can it's funny in this talk that i sent you has a very funny humble brag about how gee i won i won the nobel prize for physics he

[00:35:19] managed to get that in i should probably be a better physicist i know i should go by units which was pretty funny but at the same time did get the you know managed to humble brag about winning the nobel prize i would too yeah yeah i think he's establishing his bona fides i don't think that's pretty good on the scene wrong with that yeah yeah uh you know i think credit to the holy

[00:35:42] father credit to pope leo for bringing in both sides uh i i'm sure emily ben and margaret mitchell and a conversation gebru would like ai to have no voice in this conversation at all but i think if you're going to have this conversation you should bring in the proponents i think it made good on what he said about having a conversation yeah i i would not mess with a pope from chicago

[00:36:06] i've seen the untouchables because you know he puts one of your boys in purgatory you put one of his boys in hell this is a conversation that jeff and i have on intelligent machines we had it last week with you father robert uh a lot and um and i don't know if it's a conversation we'll ever have a conclusion uh i am i am actually fairly convinced that whatever it is ai is doing it's doing it pretty darn well at

[00:36:34] this point uh it's doing it as at least as well as humans humans lie humans hallucinate humans fail all the time i don't like to ask for directions when i'm driving because half the time i'm going to get the wrong direction oh yeah uh no it's because you have a male ego that's why i'm much more likely to get good directions from google than i am from a human so uh i don't now i do think

[00:37:00] there's a distinction between uh digital and analog uh i don't think necessarily digital wins i don't mean to imply that i i'm a human i'm i'm fully analog but i'm also fully aware of our failings and uh you know i'm not convinced that we should have primacy in a world where something could be whoa better whoa that's a big statement hmm that's giving up uh control and perhaps even agency

[00:37:30] i think that a lot of the argument against this is a faith-based argument i'm not against faith-based arguments the core of the encyclical but also part of it is a recognition that it is a tool and you cannot give a private primacy to a tool if you give a primacy to a tool you get something like a school being bombed because an ai tool recognized a school as a military target yeah and nothing

[00:37:56] happened because they've used that tool to absolve themselves of any responsibility that's a problem yeah that that's not a human not a technical issue human that's no that is a human problem yeah but it's a human problem because human they tried to use that idea of absolving themselves by using the primacy of the tool and that is in order to make their target package that is very risky i agree but it's it's it's not a tool in the sense that a hammer is a tool it has somewhat somewhat or even a

[00:38:25] nuclear bomb it's a fan it still is a fancier tool and the other but i i i'm of the firm belief yeah you give primacy to a tool if you played video games in the 80s what you 80s uh this is robotron this is robotron 2084 this is the cylons this is we do not want that that is one argument people use for why ais are dangerous is because they've ingested all of that dystopian science fiction and that's why they're

[00:38:55] to act badly because they it's expected of them there there is a dystopian sci-fi however that for the past almost 40 years has been discussing this exact topic with this level of granularity it's called ghost in the shell it's from the late 80s it's exactly this topic this idea of digitizing consciousness what does it mean for a transhuman future right and star trek worth a watch some of that

[00:39:20] although they've never really addressed if captain kirk beams down to a planet is that the same captain kirk it is not it can't it's not possible it's not it's a different kirk we will need captain kirk's eventually because what captain kirk was really good at was convincing computers to shut themselves off or commit to it like he was the best at that paradox he was captain kirk is the original

[00:39:46] prompt it was the tone of voice so yeah tell me which ghost in the machine should i consume should i consume the manga comic the tv show the original anime original anime watch the original anime and then watch ghost in the shell the uh the uh sac and then the second gig so there's two tv series watch the original and those two series kind of ignore everything else everything else is a little strange

[00:40:10] original print version of that there are but you but the the movies and the series are actually beautifully done so okay i don't like they invented new colors for that for that movie they did move all right we got to take a break good conversation no conclusion but there never will be to this i think uh it's an but it's also an important conversation and i think that the pope did a very good job of uh of taking it oh it's it's it's excellent by the way i just want to put it out there again i'm so

[00:40:39] delighted that he directly called out the transhumanists and the post-humanists uh otherwise it was kind of for the ages but that was just kind of like oh come on guys no stop just stop stop it but don't watch the live action ghost in the shell right that's not just do not watch that no it's not great honestly i would love to i would love to invite scarlett johansson to join the club of

[00:41:05] asians but yes unfortunately no uh alex was telling me that in the club as well a live action movie not not so good um all right we're gonna take a little break uh lmj in uh in our youtube chat says i don't leo doesn't have any worries because it'd be long gone by the time ai goes hey why i'm not convinced i think it could happen soon i don't think we're that what do you think's the timeline really seriously

[00:41:32] leo you're not by 20 years you still buy green bananas right you're you're fine oh no no no oh no that's my joke i'm so old i don't buy green bananas only ripe yeah i don't have time for them to ripe and for and forget avocados man i only buy mushy avocados joey davila is here congratulations on the new job at netfoundry.io where he is developer advocate we have a lot of developer advocates on

[00:41:59] this show i think developer advocates are good people you're a developer advocate well you know what i think is that they can talk english and computer at the same time yeah we're basically just entp programmers that's basically what it boils down to yeah i love talking that's what we like on our show right that's exactly what we need for a show like this i mean i like talking to computers i'm a developer advocate as well it's just a different kind of development yeah i mean developer evangelist

[00:42:28] that that's at this point yeah they're rob all that too sj it's great to have you the digital jesuit and of course uh you got to have one professor on every show uh unlike even if it's a fake one like unlike the national science council which has what was it the line has fewer professors than members of the all-in podcast uh uh mr jeff java is so good to have you i can't wait uh well i've read hot type

[00:42:55] but i can't wait till it comes out and everybody else can be joey is that the biggest glass iced coffee i've ever seen in my life this is coke zero oh okay it looks good i happen to have a zd tv mug oh hey actual coffee but very nice yeah i thought if i drop this it's going to be the end of the line on this one oh wow this is this is history screen savers that's a collector's item now i know

[00:43:24] it's so old it doesn't even say tech tv it says zd tv oh wow wow yeah so don't fall don't let the kitty cat push that off the table i have my g4 mug somewhere i mean that i don't care about and i like jeff's twit hat as well it's good to have all of you on the show we appreciate it our show today brought to you by expressvpn we're glad to have them as a sponsor and of course i'm glad to have them in my toolkit uh going online without expressvpn would be like i don't know

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[00:45:16] my shows to watch the f1 to watch the football games expressvpn is the best vpn because of that commitment to privacy to absolutely not logging uh they're super secure of course they use the top you know encryption which would take a hacker with a supercomputer a billion years to get past it's also super convenient it works on all devices phones laptops tablets you can even put it on your

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[00:46:27] we'll talk about the future uh computex which is the big computer show it's kind of the last pc show in a way right in taiwan um the big story there i think was jensen wong's keynote they announced a whole bunch of stuff including i think for our audience the one that might be the most interesting is the rtx spark

[00:46:50] a consumer laptop chip which will be made by media tech which i think is kind of interesting and and built into laptops from all of the biggies actually uh dell i think said they're going to do it uh hp yeah uh you're going to see them everywhere and even nvidia is going to make them the spark is nvidia is going to make an nvidia branded laptop i that's the impression i got i might be wrong on that

[00:47:19] that's a change maybe that maybe okay maybe i over maybe i over interpreted what they said they certainly have the oems anyway including by the way microsoft now nobody's going to have that laptop till this fall and nobody said how much it would cost but i think you could assume it's going to cost a pretty penny yeah the spark is effectively the same gb10 chip that's in the dgx spark which a number of our

[00:47:45] uh club members have uh in fact we have one club member we had our ai user group on friday juan who has two geez he's double sparked beat that 10 10k worth of uh compute there yeah that's what he said almost ten thousand dollars uh they're five thousand each um the flagship more power at home well the idea and i think this is really interesting effect is what i want to talk to you all about is

[00:48:12] a laptop that can run local ai you don't you don't need you could use a macbook neo if you're going to be using claude or you're going to be using gpt or deep seek or any of these cloud-based ais they do all the work on their in the data centers that's why they're building these big data centers but if you want to save money uh you might want to run it locally i run some local models right now i don't have enough

[00:48:41] hardware to run anything competent certainly even if you had double sparks i don't know if you could run anything as good as say opus 4.8 or certainly mythos if i recall correctly from my former life actually having done some developer relations work for a dgx spark light uh variant computer for hp in fact that's uh it was jeff who recommended me to appear on um intelligent yeah you were on the show

[00:49:10] talking about that yeah yeah uh the consumption of that was definitely sub 100 watts like less than a nice bright light bulb for the dgx spark zgx nano that that very but okay yeah so no that's good but i'm just wondering can it will it run anthropic like performance i mean what model are you going to run on

[00:49:31] that you'll run i would say you know what it runs fairly well uh is uh quen uh the 30 the 30 yeah quen well i'm running that on my yeah i'm running that on my framework desktop with 120 and i'm running that on my uh i'm running that on an m5 mac and is it as good no it's not as good as you're not gonna say it's opus quality it's quite good though like it is good enough it is good enough for a lot of

[00:50:01] uh uh for for a lot of work uh it's it's fantastic work i think so you're right not for it's fantastic for coding yeah it's fantastic for coding uh it will answer some it will answer a lot of questions reasonably well and i have been uh i have been kind of tooling around with uh just just working with it and working with uh actually working with net foundry's gateway where i can actually switch

[00:50:31] between llms yeah and say look you know what for this job i want to use this particular llm for that one i want to use my own i want to use my own local llm so there's a net foundry thing called llm gateway that does that and i've been playing around with it and it works it it works rather well and of course the nice thing is it's it's it's local i have complete control over it i know i'm not giving

[00:50:57] away any secrets and actually uh the deep seek when you run it locally will actually tell you what happened in chinaman square in 1989 yes actually i run it uh from deep seeks uh servers and it tells me what happened yeah we tested that yeah so i don't know i did see a story that somebody said no it's now been nerfed but i just tried it this morning and it sure knew what happened in tiananmen square and that was running off of their servers not my own server well here's the other

[00:51:25] architecture i wonder about you saw the story about um pulte homes and span and nvidia i put it in the rundown uh will build many data centers in suburban backyards so then will you sell your data well that's your that's the question is does everybody end up with a uh a large machine in the home that handles all your stuff but also becomes part of a larger neural network and and the data center becomes distributed

[00:51:53] across suburbs see i think that there's going to be more and more interest in fully local models just for privacy right yes although this is apple's pitch as well you can trust us it's a major home builder not just placing mini data centers in suburban backyards that is crazy isn't it it's only pulty at first um so the idea is it's almost i mean it's like solar right if everybody

[00:52:20] ran solar panels on their roof and sold their power back to the power company they wouldn't need to build all these power plants which is why our local power company pacific gas and electric won't let us create more capacity than we use they don't want us competing with them because it turns out their business is building power plants they say they can install 8 000 of these units six times faster at

[00:52:43] five times lower cost than a 100 megawatt data center now here's the big issue to me the real issue with data centers is interconnects one of the reasons they build these 100 gigawatt data centers is it's all on the same premises and their interconnects are so fast yeah if you've got one in every backyard how fast could the interconnect connect well for certain tasks no but i mean so reference the certain tasks

[00:53:11] that you'd be able to run on many data centers that are interconnected via standard residential network infrastructure yeah let's say it's gigabit there's basically no advantage over having a ai chip from a snapdragon x or one of nvidia's new chips in your laptop it would be the same performance because that that bottleneck it it doesn't allow you to use the full potential of either your your mini data

[00:53:38] center or the mini data centers of your neighbors right that's just basic infrastructure uh bandwidth throughput is a big part of performance on these things uh it's not just the gpus it's not just well yeah when you watch jason wong's keynotes about the data centers it's it's all yeah about so i'm not convinced you're right this might be more a a i noticed this story comes from realtor.com but my question is does everybody have it's like we used to talk about you you don't carry a phone you have

[00:54:07] a blob that's on you right is every home in the future besides having fiber to the home does it have ai in the home in the sense of a of a powerful smart box well obviously jensen wong thinks people are going to want these laptops right i i think it doesn't make a lot of sense i think a nas or a server a local a home server makes sense that's what i'm saying right this is what i've always wanted to do but not but yeah and so maybe i need a data center in the backyard for my home server i hope

[00:54:36] not but maybe um i can't imagine the climate impact of a thousand home servers in the backyard but anyway uh but you know what aspiring criminals this is your chance to put another bit is to get a whole bunch of bitcoin miners that's a good point that's a good in fact you know if it wasn't enough to make money in bitcoin to get this to happen i don't know if there's going to be enough impetus to get make

[00:55:03] this happen with ai so i mean to leo's point on the interconnects yeah let's say that they've got modern fiber and they're getting 10 gigabit connections between micro data centers that sounds like a lot until you realize that the nv72 infrastructure that nvidia is using for their vera rubin data centers that's 1.6 petabytes right not gigabits not not petabits petabytes

[00:55:31] it's it's so so astronomically larger than what you could do with network even the djx dgx and rtx spark yeah are 300 gigabits oh sorry gigabytes so that would be 3 000 gigabits per second we're 3 000 times faster than a home-to-home uh internet even if you got 10 gigabit very few of us are going to be training our own models we're going to be using models created by others so that that's the resource

[00:56:00] intensive part right we're going to be just fine using desktop so if the frontier models are as some people in our discord are asserting we don't know but if there may be a trillion parameter a mixture of experts models that's significantly faster than that 36 billion parameter quen 3 6 you're running yeah but then what pro but what problems are you presenting to your models like

[00:56:26] i mean is it you know i i'm going on a trip to new york what should i what should i run it fold some proteins for me well in fact i asked quen to give me a a product table on the rtx spark and it did a very good job of that so um it says deep seek now but i was i was running quen when i was doing it okay um so you know but this is just looking up stuff on the internet certainly quen is more than

[00:56:52] powerful enough uh to do that i just if you're going to spend ten thousand dollars on a double spark that's many years of anthropic tokens maybe not the way people are spending tokens you saw the axios story that some company unnamed half a trillion dollars on tokens

[00:57:16] that's token maxing all right uh i hope but hey but leo with those tokens they probably replaced half a million dollars worth of human salaries so i mean right we're good we're good no half a trillion versus half a million that does not pencil um and you still need humans don't you really to even after the ai has generated all that code to deploy it to check it deploy it maintain it i feel

[00:57:44] like you asked for it in the first place to spec it yeah it's until they have an llm that generates prompts for itself yeah yeah i mean damn so uh what do you think of anthropic's urge for a global pause i think it will be accepted as well as when musk called for a global pause and then immediately immediately started buying billions of dollars yeah yeah chips because yeah we've had yeah we've had that call for and it was also a six-month period right yeah oh yeah yeah they yeah it's all duma crap

[00:58:13] it's yeah it's marketing marketing crap it's marketing yeah it's i think anthropic is trying to get ahead of the backlash they're seeing the growing backlash against ai data centers and ai infrastructure and they want to come down firmly on the side of no no we're one of the good guys we tried to tell everybody to stop they just they just wouldn't so you know yeah yeah yeah uh it's like crusty the clown they kept driving dump trucks of money to my house i'm not made of stone

[00:58:39] so you've argued jeff you know you like yan lacun who has argued that frontier systems based on llms can't possibly rival human intelligence um he says that will no what he says is that it will match and exceed human intelligence but in specific areas ah rather than what he what he fights against is number one is the general machine the everything machine and number two the machine that has no goal

[00:59:07] his view is that you give it a goal and and then third but most importantly what he argues and i wrote a post about this um last week with my my idolizing of jensen wong and yan lacun trying to learn from them and what what lacun argues as we know is role models saying that the the real life is is is infinitely more complex than language language is something you add on later but if you can get the machine to figure out what um a ball is and focus on that ball not on everything else and then

[00:59:37] understand the impact of what's happening to it and then he argues very strenuously to understand um that your actions have consequences and to predict what those consequences are is the only path to responsibility okay but i feel like everything i do in my life revolves around language if i if i can't articulate it what do you what what do you what tell you okay so write this back when you hold this pen

[01:00:05] and and and and and you think about what's going to happen if you let go do you think about it in language no i think about it visually but you don't think about it visually yeah that's that's see it yeah i don't see it because i have aphantasia but yeah right um or if you were to spy the classic problem is write the spec for the robot to wash your dishes it's a very complex back to write and only and and so the cohen's argument is as same as when jensen wong's is

[01:00:35] the reason you need role models and digital twins is that only if they make up their own rules based on understanding constraints of nature and physics they have to understand those constraints yeah and then within that they can then be actors and then you can add language onto that as a as an abstraction of what those actions are yes he's not against that and again he will say as i will say llms are amazing they do great things yeah nothing against llms but they ain't going to get

[01:01:01] you to where people are saying well let's come from taipei taiwan to san francisco the next day microsoft launched its build conference and uh as uh is reported here by the verge the build keynote was almost all about ai were you surprised at the number of announcements they had uh yeah it was kind of a cascade wasn't it yeah yeah they they piggybacked on jensen wong's

[01:01:27] announcements earlier saying they're going to make a mini surface pc with this uh rtx spark they're going to make a dev box as well as a laptop they didn't say anything about price and given how much ram ddr ram costs dr5 ram costs these days yeah where are where are all these chips going to come from uh we still have a helium shortage that's true we've got two places that make helium that are currently

[01:01:54] uh under wartime conditions i mean we've got uh helium is a byproduct of natural gas yes and uh the big helium source is from the middle east natural gas natural gas and ukraine and ukraine ukraine is the other and both are currently uh both are currently under fire we have uh big natural gas reserves in the united states but apparently we don't mine the helium out of it we don't take the helium out of it yeah

[01:02:22] i'm not sure why i guess soon and the problem is the annoying the maddening thing is helium atomic number two is supposed to be the second most common element in the universe it's just that earth is a terrible bucket for helium because it's light enough that it achieves escape velocity so it goes out into space it just goes out into space like that's the problem like a helium balloon

[01:02:47] yeah so why if if the demand is never ending right now for chips why did broadcom have have bad uh results that resulted in a huge fall in their stock and the entire sector nvidia everybody went down because of broadcom i don't understand there's no there's just the market is not rational well that's true it's just there's that yeah we we are so beyond the the pe ratios right now yeah

[01:03:12] it's true the market is basically fandom yeah you're gonna buy spacex man you will buy anything oh yeah spacex is going to make money even though it it really shouldn't it absolutely shouldn't but neither should tesla the tesla's e is so ridiculous that it should not be valued at what it is but it is because people aren't using those old metrics anymore tesla is just watch videos i see about chinese cars and you know they're doomed oh gosh yes actually there was a big story in the times today

[01:03:40] about it's just a matter of time before chinese cars make it into the united states in some form or fashion apparently they're approaching the trump administration saying well if we built factories in the united states to build byd vehicles would it be okay then and he's wide open to this as long as you create jobs in the u.s fine with me well you can see traces of geely in the new uh volvo that people are talking about the i think c60 well yeah the post star is in fact a chinese it's owned by

[01:04:09] geely volvo yeah yeah collaboration yeah um yeah actually jammer b loves his uh x what what is it x60 x xc60 he's very happy with it um also microsoft announced project solara in the weirdest way possible it looks exactly like amazon echo let me make this go full screen and in this there's

[01:04:36] this weird liminal look to the video everybody's face is in darkness um yeah in fact i think microsoft was was really doubling down on the kids call it liminal uh the dream space yeah and uh so so this is a not an actual product from microsoft it's a experiment called solara that will be in not just a amazon

[01:05:03] echo style device but agentic ai in a card in all sorts of i hate concept cars i want something i can buy now that's yeah i hate them this is this is basically see it's on it's on your id badge it's uh it's an echo like device um but really what they're saying is agentic ai will be ubiquitous yeah but everybody's in shadow isn't that weird it's creepy that's that's the ai future well because

[01:05:33] the people aren't important right exactly it's people this is ai primacy this is exactly what i was talking about this is leo's dream this is my dream you're all just there there there we go like i like like somebody in the advertising department was you know do you miss plato's cave oh that's my favorite oh i use that in homilies all the time plato's cave plato's cave tell us the

[01:05:57] story of plato's cave so uh imagine you and a group of people have i have spent your entire life in a cave and you are chained facing the wall of the cave and the entrance of the cave is behind you so you have no idea what the outside world looks like or what it entails however you can see shadows you can see shadows from things moving around outside and from those shadows you create a narrative with your fellow prisoners of what must be out there one day you get released you and you

[01:06:26] alone are unshackled and you make your way out of the cave and now you can actually see with your own eyes exactly what's happening out there so you have now the truth which is nowhere near what you the narrative that you made up with your fellow cave dwellers when you were in the cave now imagine trying to go back into the cave and explain to everyone else that what we thought was happening outside wasn't actually the truth how difficult would it be for you to explain to those people who still

[01:06:55] don't have that experience that their ideas their thought processes were completely wrong it's it's it's a fantastic thought experiment that can go in so many different ways uh whether you're trying to teach people about the nature of of understanding or the nature of the transfer of information or the nature of human understanding it's it's it's a lot of fun and how does this apply to the the faces in shadow everything you know that they were they were they were the shadows

[01:07:23] on the walls of plato's cave like basically yeah i'm thinking the advertisers thinking do you miss plato's cave and do you miss those creepy palm phone ads with the creepy ballerina who looked at you at the end oh yeah remember the palm phone yeah this is not their first time is it if this continues i i might actually go live in a cave so we've got a couple in the backyard bring on the shadows yeah that's right

[01:07:50] microsoft also announced uh a uh agent i guess called scout which is confusing because uh google's is called spark spark spark and scout uh maybe they'll be friends sounds like two dogs yeah two little uh jack russell terriers sounds like the sequel to kill a mockingbird yeah i was about to say like scout from kill a mockingbird bird oh yeah yeah they announced seven new ai models seven seven what tell them oh why not

[01:08:19] uh they do have a uh reasoning model which is a 35b uh with a teensy weensy by the way this is what i don't like about quen is the context window 128k context tiny it's too small that's like my house born one it's yeah that's kind of specialized i guess uh did they at least name the seven models sleepy dopey

[01:08:43] dog i want grumpy is there a grumpy model yeah i have the actually my agent is the grumpy model i think um lots more stuff they have a hardware chip the uh the majorana they announced their second generation majorana which is a quantum computing chip it contains qubits

[01:09:07] uh you want that is that the one done in partnership with ibm uh i don't know ibm is big into the quantum computer isn't it as is google um yeah as is google there is there seems to be a convergence with all these companies at the thorns they've all decided that we're going to have some sort of piece of hardware whether it's glasses a pendant a watch do you ever use your little deep seek thing my jeff had you get

[01:09:36] which one the way that jeff had you got the little harper made and kept that harper made him get it oh this thing oh yeah i love it so this you connect this to the wi-fi and then it connects to china and then has steve yelled at you for this no no no nobody's yelled at me in fact somebody wrote me a letter saying what is the name of that i said i don't recommend it they said no no i want it

[01:10:04] it's an esp32 so it's it's eminently programmable i i might uh i might just make it into my my agent but for now you can ask deep secret questions i haven't asked about tnm and square though actually that's a good question yeah i should i should try that um so uh is is this uh just groupthink is this just or is this all make a lot of sense and they're all on the right track are we going to be all wearing

[01:10:31] little ai pendants and things i mean we already do they're called our phones yeah we carry that and my watch i can talk to my watch and talks back sort of and we know these tech companies aren't original anymore they just copy each other already no no i know i know all right let's take a break uh i'm gonna go just talk to my grumpy model for a little bit when we come back apple's big announcements

[01:10:57] tomorrow we'll get a little like crystal ball gazing with father robert balassier the digital jesuit where it is now midnight in uh the vatican that's a movie title start of the day for me midnight in the vatican that is such a good movie title oh i like it that's joey de villa our screenwriter developer advocate at netfoundry.io and jeff jarvis who is unaffiliated no he is a host of

[01:11:25] intelligent machines you also do ai the ai inside podcast uh with uh jason howell it's a wonderful podcast thanks for the author of many great books including the gutenberg parenthesis and the new one coming out in august hot type a hot book for the hottest month of the year up here in the northern hemisphere our show today brought to you by zip recruiter you know according to cnbc nearly half

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[01:13:05] free at ziprecruiter.com slash twit that's ziprecruiter.com slash twit meet your match on zip recruiter thanks the recruiter so much for supporting this week in tech they've been with us a long long time now i think it must be almost 10 years we love that we love that uh tomorrow i'm gonna have to get up micah sergeant and i are going to be covering apple's wwdc we're at worldwide developers

[01:13:35] conference keynote uh at 10 a.m pacific 1 p.m eastern that's 1800 utc we will not be streaming it in our normal channels like right now we're streaming on youtube twitch x facebook linkedin and kick we do that with all of our live shows we can't do that with keynotes well certainly with apple keynotes the last time we did that they tried to get us kicked off of youtube so i don't want to get kicked

[01:14:02] off of youtube so we will be doing our usual coverage but it will be club only it'll be a private event if you're not in the club you might want to join it for tomorrow you could there is i think still a two-week trial so you can just pretend to join it uh twitter tv slash club twitter it's a nice way to support uh independent podcasting uh i think this is going to be one of the most interesting wwdc's in years remember two years ago they foolishly pre-announced products they never shipped they

[01:14:29] still haven't shipped a year ago they apologized this year well it's going to be a big question will they ship those siri features that they've been promising in the intervening years they've made a deal with google apparently paying them a billion dollars a month for gemini is a month or a year no it's a year a billion dollars a year for access to gemini now though the rumor is at first apple said

[01:14:57] you'll be running the ai on either on your phone and if it can't run on your phone in our own specially designed private data centers in the backyard yeah well now they're saying okay data center it's going to be google's data center which are which are actually x ai's data centers because google is renting capacity from x ai but apple says but don't worry we're going to encrypt everything they won't

[01:15:25] know what you're doing yeah i don't know if that if that's true that's going to really change the story a little bit that you'll be running on elon's data centers really google will be paying elon 900 million dollars a month which still doesn't put x ai into the green so no but they're making 20 million dollars a month oh no wait that's wrong they're losing money aren't they yeah losing a

[01:15:54] billion dollars a month even with anthropic paying 1.25 billion dollars a month for service now google is going to be paying 900 million dollars a month for service they're still going to be losing at least 100 million dollars a month and their bills are going to go up so it's probably going to be closer to four to five hundred million dollars a month and this is why the s p 500 said that anthropic open ai and spacex cannot be on their index for a year we don't that's we don't want your

[01:16:24] uh your tarnish to rub off it's starting to feel more like do you remember we work this feels like we work yeah yeah for computers yeah uh well we'll be very interested to see what apple announces as far i think would it be so it's a couple of things to to mention about this it'll be tim cook's last

[01:16:46] wwc dc keynote he is retiring in september or actually being kicked upstairs to the board uh john turnis will be taking over as ceo in september his first keynote will be the iphone announcement uh there's some question whether we'll even see john turnis on stage i suspect we will in fact i bet you apple makes a video they like to start these things with goofy they like to have continuity yeah and and also can we just say that tim cook deserves

[01:17:14] credit for what he's done since since uh jobs went away i mean he really has done wonders for apple he's made apple a four trillion dollar company that ain't bad um some say you know on the momentum that steve created uh there have been a few things that are tim cook uh kind of signature uh products like the siri that never was i guess the the watch is still steve and johnny's but it's tim who

[01:17:42] recognized that the watch was going to be ultimately best used as a health device and really focused it on health so he gets some credit here's the question i have about apple will they end up be being seen as a smarter one because they don't they didn't need to build a foundation model it's commodity we can get models from anywhere we can pay google for it it doesn't really matter what we have is the relationship to our users are they really behind or are they saving a bucket load of money except so one of

[01:18:12] apple's core tenants is they must own the the technologies that are most important for their services so this kind of breaks that this breaks it in a big way yeah yeah and by the way that is tim's signature achievement is the release of apple silicon the move from intel to apple chips john turnus by the way was the guy in charge of that and i think that's his this is his reward for doing such a good job but uh that that is something apple did that was it's funny turned out to be very good for

[01:18:40] ai local ai that's why they can't keep yeah minis or studios in stock you're running that you're running your quen model on a mac mini right uh i'm running mine on actually uh m5 uh m5 powerbook as soon as as soon as i got the uh i got a how at the job i have a hardware stipend and as soon as the nice and uh so i bought the m5 and i bought a matching one for my wife because i told her you know what when

[01:19:09] the ship when the ship comes in everybody rides a rising tide floats all boats so she has a baby we have his and hers a 64 gig m5 nice nice those those macbook pros are very nice mm-hmm um and and it turns out that the uh machine language processing units in those are very good

[01:19:32] and speaking of memory bandwidth the memory bandwidth is is superb because it's unified memory yeah it's it's really good for that and it's it's fantastic i highly recommend it if you want to get into if you want to get yeah if you want to get into software development and in fact actually uh my old laptop and m1 is now the sacrificial open claw machine so i've got yeah that's smart open claw

[01:20:01] possibly hermes i'm also looking into hermes i love hermes that's my okay that's my agent of choice uh hermes and i i actually divorced claudette and uh yeah i married hermes oh it's just a fling i call quick silver quick silver it's such a romance forever divorce or annulment well we never did consummate so i guess it's okay then okay because that's that's what not consummating is one of the uh

[01:20:31] one of the uh excuses that you can use for an annulment and it's the least embarrassing of the bunch i think mental incompetence padre is is that still uh yeah does is there is there prima nocta in llms i can't oh yeah oh yeah i uh the uh the right of the noble yes i am the i am the noble one they're just

[01:20:53] tools i learned that from you joey uh so i i don't really actually care so much if apple puts ai on the iphone i use the iphone but when i press the action button on the iphone it calls quicksilver calls my little hermes yeah uh when i uh want to i can do everything you know in anthropic and if i

[01:21:18] wanted to if uh you know if i want to visit the old girlfriend if i i've got all of the ais on here but look this is the little hermes logo the little yeah that weird alice in wonderland logo and i can actually uh talk with it and interact with it oh ready for an update good but what if you could do all of that offline leo well i can if i choose quen well offline you mean not going to a frontier

[01:21:43] model you mean locally yeah yeah i mean it's still online because i'm obviously my phone is not running them so i don't know if the agent the if the i mean apple's going to do a genic probably with with siri of some kind they won't call it that you're is that what you're asking if like siri were smart enough to do all that if siri were smart enough and if you were carrying enough local processing that well maybe i am run a model completely offline i mean i that's the idea in my current job that would

[01:22:12] be very attractive yes because uh you you've mentioned this before but not on this show that uh the catholic church has its own models they're yes we do surely private local models and i've got a little uh it's it's not a ggx but i've got an an acer uh veritron which is using the blackwell chip so it does it's got a petaflop worth of performance four terabytes uh storage you win

[01:22:36] 128 gigabytes of store of memory so it's pretty good wow now and are you running the vaticans models on that we are so we are we have developed our own model so we're not using off-the-shelf models anymore because they've been specifically trained on our sources and they're private and they're private right completely private and which means that we can use them in what we call internal forum cases so

[01:23:00] when it's information that's very sensitive we have the ability to summarize to translate uh to otherwise transform that information without it ever touching the internet which is important because canonically we're not allowed to what did it take to uh to build those a lot of quite yeah no trade secret

[01:23:22] yeah a lot did you did you train them from scratch yep what oh complete scratch this uh it was a lot harder than i thought it would be and uh when you when you trained it what was the content you trained it on so we have several hundred years worth of texts that are specific to the catholic church have they

[01:23:48] been digitized did all digital so everything has been digitized in our archives and so we were able to run that and say this it learned our language it learned our culture it learned does this speak latin does it speak latin that's my question uh it does speak latin actually yes uh that's one of the very first things that we had to train it to do we had to train it to help translate some of the other sources and so it's it's a completely closed model it does not use any information from outside of the catholic

[01:24:18] church and like the washington posts ask a ask the washington post ai our model has no problem saying i cannot answer that that was extremely important for us because we that's how you stop it from hallucinating once it gets down to a level of probability that's no longer acceptable it just says i don't have enough information to answer that question okay this was easy because you are the church already had its sole document it's known as the ten commandments exactly we've got our

[01:24:45] foundation we've got our architecture already we just had to build around it ten commandments.md it's really it's it's simple yeah and and the beatitudes really the beatitudes are a little more yeah yeah yeah yeah and something about uh rich man and the eye of a needle and you know it's so we've we've got the old testament llm and then the new testament

[01:25:08] they battle it out yeah that old time must be scary yeah fire and brimstone paging dan brown you can you can now write you have enough material now to write the da vinci vibe code does it we don't yeah we we don't have an anti-matic machine under saint peter's but we may have a lot of compute power but and it probably when you're coding it uses deep c plus plus right

[01:25:34] never mind can you vibe code on it can it code or is it red c plus plus that's not one of the functions that we built into it yeah that's interesting so yeah you could actually make it much simpler because there's a whole lot of stuff you don't care to do correct does it yeah we're not trying to make a general intelligence can it use mcp servers or is that not a good idea uh i mean he could but it would not be a favorable result uh you probably right yeah right you're thinking uh leo

[01:26:02] are you thinking about my too many cats mcp server yes how many yeah how many cats is a venial sin how many cats is a mortal sin oh we could do tokens uh sins instead of tokens sale of indulgen indulgences are back baby oh no so we've used up our indulgence budget for the llm this man oh that's okay it's uh it's one of those what is a year it's called the uh it's a uh uh no but we can party like it's 1599

[01:26:32] jubilee year isn't it so you know yeah there we go you won't use jubilee year the the tokens are free so all right we're being we're gonna we're gonna all go to hell except for you um what so but what specific tasks is it is it mostly about the the hundred years worth of documents or all that 100 right so uh it needs to be able to quickly identify uh documents that are germane to any questions that

[01:26:59] get asked asked of it it needs to be able to combine those with contemporary documents from the so it's correct yeah but also translations so it's very good at language translations we have meetings here where we'll have 19 20 different languages this is really good at going back and forth with simultaneous real-time translation oh so it's used as that oh that's really interesting did you use

[01:27:24] anything outside as a base to build on uh not originally speech to text is is challenging so i would imagine there are some very good libraries you could use for stuff like that safely but again what we found is it's it's much easier and much more effective to isolate a particular need rather than building a model and then trying to figure out what it can do yeah because i think it's a model

[01:27:52] for what to do with with medicine yes and physics and other areas it's this is the part of the on the code argument and there's some really amazing general intelligence right there are some really amazing specialized ais in all those fields it's really it's really or you know alpha fold is a good example i mean you wouldn't use alpha fold uh to write your thesis but you might use it to fold proteins i mean yeah it's these are very specialized did you find uh so were you involved in the training

[01:28:21] of this thing it sounds like you were a year a little bit i know that it's a group i know that you nobody takes it's a big group there's a lot of big group and no one person could take credit um but what an interesting um what's the demand out there in any given parish church for saying this stuff's going on i want to know about it i want to do things with it what's the it's entirely internal right now okay it has not yeah by the way the veratron is darren okey says is a

[01:28:48] djx spark it is yeah the it's an nvidia gb10 so it's a blackwell it's a blackwell it's gb10 yeah yeah i kind of wanted to get a vera rubin but those are not available not yet right so do you guys have a babblefish padre yes that's what he's made the babblefish yeah wow very it's it's speaking in tongues

[01:29:13] actually the the most difficult language right now you you probably would not guess this is spanish really because of the accents the spanish language is easy the accents it's having so much trouble yeah you mean the spoken word accents like castilian versus mexican mexican versus colombian versus brazilian versus a bolivian versus spanish spanish yeah yes is it harder than arabic

[01:29:40] that all the variation in arabic yeah arabic's actually pretty simple japanese is simple actually latin is very simple latin is very rigorous latin yeah the syllables are straightforward the language is tricky for us anyway but yeah the syllables mandarin uh japanese is straightforward actually mandarin might be tough because of the tones right yeah but they're still a written language computers can hear the tones much better than humans can that's interesting much much better i can't hear

[01:30:09] them but so it can distinguish between ma and ma yeah very easily ma ma yeah yeah yeah did you say you don't have tagalog yet padre at the god but we are the most popular we are the most catholics we are the most yes it wasn't a demand it wasn't a demand language we don't have a lot of documents in tagalog we need to work uh we we need to work on that okay yeah i'll get to it

[01:30:35] i think you got a critical mass right here do you get native speakers in to train it no no no we don't need to do that you got recordings can it make a podcast like uh notebook lm can i think a latin podcast would be so probably oh actually that would be fun that would be just just as a thought experiment i would totally i would take yes oh a podcast translator take any podcast input it and it makes it in in latin with with the voice of that speaker oh oh yeah so well hey i can do that

[01:31:06] yeah i mean that should be possible hey if hey jen can trans yeah uh quest a week a semana in semana in what's tech yeah what's tech in latin no lo geo i'm sorry i i hope it's late night in the vatican and nobody's listening

[01:31:28] uh we are talking twit with father robert balassair joey de villa from netfoundry and uh dot io and uh jeff jarvis will be back on wednesday paris will be back i hope yeah we hope we hope we hope we hope she's been on a deadline with consumer reports never ending deadline poor dear we do have a very interesting interview and joey you'll be interested in this uh jeffrey quennell quennell who uh is the

[01:31:54] founder of noose research the people who make hermes will be coming back we interviewed him way back when i loved him i thought he was great but that was back when they were doing their own models they were trying to do ethical models kind of like what you've been doing robert uh but what we didn't know at the time is that they had their own internal agent and then openclaw came out and they looked at each other said you know ours is better and they decided to release hermes and i have

[01:32:22] to say i think i'll be very interested what you think joy but i my experience yeah it's intriguing absolutely what you want it's kind of a batteries included uh because it had comes with more than 90 skills uh already built in and then plugins available for all sorts of things it's got its own memory system uh it's really nice it's all right i will have to give it a look application anyway jeffrey quennell will be our guest on wednesday uh listen because he's great he's very

[01:32:48] interesting uh we will have more in just a bit on this week in tech our show today brought to you by i would show it to you but it's busy working our thinks canary you know why i plugged it back in because we got we found out that google sent us a message a couple of weeks ago saying you know there's uh somebody in your network in your google workspace we found out that there had been an

[01:33:12] intruder who broke in in january one of our employees got phished got our credentials fortunately apparently they did very little they looked at some emails i think they have such a big stack of workspaces that they've broken into that they don't you know they go well we'll get we'll get to it they're working through them one by one and we just lucked out that we weren't on the top of the pile we got rid of them fortunately and we've got new protection and one of the things that we have is

[01:33:41] thinks canary why do we need a thinks canary it's that 121 days that passed between us getting cracked and us discovering that the hackers were in the network that's more than four months that they fortunately they didn't do anything but they could have done so much the thinks canary is a honeypot that can be deployed in minutes it can be almost anything you want uh it could be mine is a

[01:34:09] synology nas i've mentioned this before but it's very easy to change it to anything you want including oh my gosh any a windows server a linux server uh it could have lit up like a christmas tree every service on it turned on or just pick some you know critical ones like rdp or file sharing that you know a bad guy cannot resist it could be an ssh server it can be a skated device it could be anything

[01:34:35] and your thinks canaries can also generate what they call canary tokens little files they look like real thing like a word document or a spreadsheet or google sheet you can put them anywhere on your local drives but i you know i now have a bunch of them on our google drive they look like the real deal i have a google sheet called payroll information for instance the thing is bad guys cannot resist them

[01:35:03] and the minute the bad guy tries to crack my fake internal ssh server or tries to open that sheet that google sheet that says payroll information i will find out i will know i will the thinks canary will immediately tell me there's someone in the network you got a problem no false alerts just the alerts

[01:35:25] that matter and any way you want email sms slack teams web hooks they have an api so you can write your own syslog of course any way you want the point is when you get that notification you know there's somebody in the network just choose a profile for your thinks canary device register it with the hosted console it does the monitoring it does the notifications and then you can just sit back

[01:35:50] you can relax an attacker who has breached your network a malicious insider and other adversaries make themselves known by accessing your thinks canary in fact i was talking to the founder one of the founders haroon uh when i was at our sack uh and and he said they may even because hackers are by trade pretty suspicious they assume everybody's as evil as they are they may be looking at that going hmm is that really payroll information he said but they but that's what they're there for they cannot

[01:36:19] resist they will open that file they will attack that server they just can't resist that's what they're there to do and the minute they do you got them visit canary.tools twit if you're a big operation a bank a casino back end you might have hundreds you certainly had would need one for every uh virtual network every vlan uh we have a handful so let's give you a price example seventy five hundred dollars

[01:36:46] a year you get five thinks canaries you get your own hosted console you get upgrades you get support you get maintenance and actually if you use the code twit in the how did you hear about us box you're going to get 10 off the price and not just for the first year but for as long as you own your canaries that you can always return your thinks canary there's no risk to this they have a two month 60 day money back guarantee for a full refund i have to tell you they've been advertising with us

[01:37:13] for 10 years practically since they started and during all the years that we've partnered with thinks canary that refund guarantee has not even once never been claimed because and i know this because we have them once you get things canaries on your network you're going to say how did i live without it visit canary.tools twit enter the code twit in the how did you hear about us box and uh we thank them so much for their support they've been with us a long time we really appreciate it canary

[01:37:41] dot tools slash twit you might say well how leo how come you didn't know for under 21 days because to do the ad i've stupidly disconnected the things canary and all the canary tokens call home when there's no home because i was holding it up remember in the ads i used to hold it up not anymore so if you see a spreadsheet in the google drive name payroll information you know you should open

[01:38:05] that it's got great stuff in there canary dot tools slash twit don't forget to use the offer code t-w-i-t wish we'd had it i stupidly disconnected it it's my fault i blame myself all right so uh um just to finish up with the uh wwdc keynote tomorrow we will be covering it we we don't expect new hardware we think that that's all going to come in the fall although there is an interesting

[01:38:34] story uh coming out of the supply chain that uh samsung has already ramped up manufacture of these uh oled screens for the new laptop the 14 and 16 inch are they touch screens perhaps they're touch screens and uh this will be on the m6 chip the the theory being if they're already made manufacturing them for august delivery that it might well be a september announcement which is earlier than we thought

[01:39:03] apple's going to have a very big september they're going to have that uh iphone ultra the folding phone we're starting to see demos of that apple will not talk about this tomorrow so don't don't get your hopes up they will be talking about ios 27 mac os 27 and all the other os's watch tv uh ipad os 27 and uh undoubtedly spend much of the time talking about ai and siri do you

[01:39:30] think there is a market among apple fans for the touch screen i mean i love i don't want it but i don't want it yeah i did want the oled so i i love my i have an oled thinkpad and i bought it specifically for the oled because uh i those are my favorite screens but i also specifically did not get the touch one because i'll let them touch a laptop and yesterday lisa was showing me a

[01:39:53] spreadsheet she was touching the cell don't touch it she's been using her ipad too much but how good is how good is mac os on a touch interface anyway because that's not well that's going to be interesting so this is maybe this will be a hint tomorrow because they will talk about new features in mac os 27 and they're going to have to do something to address that similarly for a folding phone they're going to have to do something to address it an ios 27 so we'll get some hints about what

[01:40:21] they're thinking i think it would require some interesting tweaks because mac os is specifically optimized for a mouse and cursor that is rather precise fingers you know while nice and super convenient especially my larger and you know for the longest time the argument for not you not having a touch screen mac was what they called the gorilla arm effect right and that is that it's just kind of

[01:40:48] hard to hold your arm up against the screen for a long time i i don't really want to maybe occasionally i'll run my finger if i'm going through a long list of something and there's carpal tunnel that gets two i'm really glad to have by my because you have a touch chromebook i've done of course of course you do yes i i find it healthier because i switch from keyboard and mouse to touch i go back and forth back and forth so it's not the same motion well and apple that's exactly

[01:41:13] sells to the ipad which is a touch screen yeah is it going to be an ios i would not be surprised no if uh in a couple of weeks as people start looking through all the the notes and actually decompiling source from some of the software packages they're going to find the hooks yeah for the touch screen and they'll be hints on exactly how it's going to be implemented that's usually how that stuff leaks out but i am still most interested in what they do with ai as an i like ai yeah i know it's not

[01:41:43] fashionable on college campuses these days but i like i like ai so can we stop calling it apple intelligence is that dead now or they're still going to try to put it means man yeah that's what uh but and i think the idea that of apple you know embracing this and putting ai in a billion pockets will make a big you know dent this will change people's point of view may and maybe apple knows people don't like it i don't know you know there's definitely a backlash a tech lash

[01:42:12] i don't see i think apple's going to come at it differently apple has never been about selling raw services or the promises of a technology they sell features specific things that you want to do i think that's that's how they can can do their ai well which is i'm not going to sell you the tech i'm going to sell you a skill yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna show you an example of of how ai works i won't even call it ai but you're going to love it so much that you're going to buy it and that's they're

[01:42:39] good at that they're very good yeah their product they make products yeah yeah the ipod for instance they never talked about uh the size of the storage they said a thousand songs because that's really what matters that's a good point yeah that's a good point uh my mom doesn't care about anything on her iphone except for the fact that she can do facetime with her granddaughter right that's it and unfortunately the things they've shown in the past haven't really been too compelling like

[01:43:07] genmoji or the image playground these are awful and people are still mocking the ai summaries that they get in their notifications they're they're crazy will siri still be a laughingstock i mean and that's the other thing people think siri is a moron and she is i mean if they're really doing a tight immigration uh integration with gemini siri is going to smarten up by a lot exponential

[01:43:37] level i mean it's a lot fantastic the question is will they still call it sir will they call it siri or does it you think they're stubborn oh yeah that's theirs that's their technology that's their branding they're not gonna even though people hate it yeah the apple doesn't think you hate anything that apple does they'll never admit that that would be yeah i i think i think they should release their

[01:44:02] new ai product and call it the newton just i was just looking at that there we go yes just to flex and say you know what we're gonna take one of our biggest failures and make it something wonderful there we go i did have um uh gemini last night i at least and i were talking i don't know if i can show this though wait a minute let me see uh and i asked it gemini if i should dye my hair

[01:44:30] uh and wait yeah i'm thinking probably not a good idea did it show you what you would like look like you want to see yeah you want to see what i would look like if i dyed my hair the chat room could probably do it for you too yeah well so but the point being that i didn't ask siri okay i i immediately went to what i thought would be the best images so i gave it this picture oh no wow okay so this is

[01:44:59] what i would look like oh no it's probably not the best starting picture maybe that's the problem and then i said well that's not good prices if i was so then i said what if i dyed it black and then lisa said you look like joe pesci yeah so i thought okay what if you get how about give me superman hair do i amuse you oh the spit curl oh very nice superman hair the corn sweat look like it yeah

[01:45:24] yeah okay yeah that then so what about a beatles haircut what if i had black hair with a beatles haircut is that is that ringo or is that that's john the interesting thing is uh gemini's really good at doing this right this is this is uh this is it what would i look like with a toupee apparently i don't know you know that there's a certain javier bardem vibe i'm getting you know why

[01:45:48] we were watching the burrows and uh uh molina is alfred molina is in it okay and he's got he's my age and he's got jet black hair all right i said he dyed it right and and we couldn't decide so i said well what if what would i look better and then this is if i went blonde i don't think okay oh this is weird this is weird but i actually like that over the black yeah i do

[01:46:14] too i prefer that i'm not doing any of the it's got conan o'brien vibes yes that's what it is oh i should ask for conan's hair oh there we go yeah let me give me so the point i'm making is not so much it's just really good at this kind of stuff yeah but uh i know the toupee it's the javier bardem and the apple tv version of cape fear that i'm getting by the way who is that creepy have you watched that yet

[01:46:41] no not yet it's on my list oh man what is this what is this so there was a movie cape way back when with robert de niro cape fear and then yeah robert mitchin first yes okay here i am by the way it did that fast oh here i am with conan o'brien okay no no no oh my god i feel like i'm in

[01:47:03] a bus station right now leo the clown carrot top um as i say oh yeah there was a robert mitchum movie uh cape fear and then and then scorsese remade it it's exactly as if it were a hitchcock film and that was uh with de niro and he was very good at that okay uh but this one is uh javier javier

[01:47:26] bardem uh it's really really good and amy uh what's her name is in it and i'm such an old man now i'm having see i only watch all of this when i go back to the united states so i go back three times for about a month a time all right my parents get all the streaming surfaces so i just binge everything okay but yeah that's on apple tv the cape fear this new one yes and i think it's quite good

[01:47:50] it's been actually on apple tv i really enjoyed um uh pluribus oh yeah yes yes so excellent i really enjoyed that so we were watching the burrows which is basically pluribus yeah yeah no i've heard that's very good it's like it's just i don't anyway isn't wait some i think my sister called burrows uh like stranger things for old people yeah the same brothers and uh but but they're living in a place

[01:48:17] it's kind of like the villages only it's called the burrows oh my god oh the villages it's like the old drop golf carts that's down the road from me and the beautiful thing is they pump it's like an the main street is like main street usa and disney except the music they pump is classic rock like they were like classic rock or boat rock no no no this was this was well actually boat rock fits in

[01:48:44] there but when i was there they were playing all of boston's original album so that's what's going on in the burrows too the music is like springsteen and uh we're of that age now yeah we are what happened so if it's stranger things for old people does that mean in burrows vecna is just like chlamydia or syphilis yeah exactly because remember the uh the villages has an unusual possibly the highest

[01:49:13] std rate is for medium-sized city and yeah by far carpet these people it's not even close seriously untreated stds in the villages is the highest rate in the country yeah okay jeff and i are both well we're not moving there i guess yeah yeah and actually if you search if you search youtube there are a bunch of uh real estate videos promoting life in the villages and yeah well there's a famous documentary

[01:49:40] that's hysterical about the oh yeah no so yeah i i i have been there uh with my wife and asides from the staff we were the youngest people at this seafood restaurant oh yeah by far and it was yeah it was wild my parents lived in sun city center where by law you cannot live there unless you're 55 yes you have to be 55 minimum to buy property there oh that's my parents live in a sun city uh near vegas chicken

[01:50:04] so yeah and they and they have so many activities there are a lot of clubs and last i heard there was a three-year waiting list for the cheerleading squad jesus huh hmm yeah they they're they cheerleading football team i have no idea actually and there's a lot of uh morris dancing or clogging clubs oh yeah sure yeah yeah they that doesn't seem to go hand in hand with

[01:50:34] arthritis that's painful no idea uh maybe maybe they would eat a lot of glucosamine that's all i don't know yeah the golf carts man the golf carts but a very weird city and very nice golf carts these golf carts are nicer than my car i was just oh yeah oh yeah yeah that's part of the i saw one with air conditioning and so yeah oh and the best part is the crime blotter in the villages um

[01:51:00] it's not teenagers it's the 30 and 40 something children of seniors who failed to launch and it's all like kids petty so they're all living at home shoplifting and golf cart dui uh it is a it is a fascinating community yes i always wanted a little bit of that in in vegas

[01:51:23] and i wanted to make a a a sequel to seinfeld which was the town where the parents lived del boca vista exactly and it would be a sitcom because burroughs is not a sitcom burroughs is is is no it's nasty yeah spooky it's an art i think there's a sitcom uh yeah it is my father always called it god it's called the golden girls and it's been done oh yeah true true uh but you know what now

[01:51:51] that we're now the boomers are uh our our little demographic bulge is uh getting there getting up there uh i suppose it's time to bring back all those old folks shows yeah i guess that's what the net star jerry seinfeld now yeah he's trying out um let's take a break i was gonna do another we're old we need a break now we don't want to talk about stds anymore i mean the only bad thing about these breaks is i don't get to go to the bathroom but you do so take advantage of it and uh there we go i'll just suffer

[01:52:23] think empty he's thinking depends right now you know what if depends wants to buy ads yeah just let me know that would be the kiss of death right if you start doing depends on a podcast nobody's ever listened to the show again uh our show today brought to you by melissa the trusted data quality expert since 1985 and a long

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[01:56:28] slash twit m-e-l-i-s-s-a dot com slash twit we thank them so much for their support of this week in tech wired magazine very interesting expose they looked at code in an unreleased system that's already embedded in meta's smart glasses for face recognition designed to identify people via biometric data stored on users

[01:56:55] phones they have not enabled it but it's there it's in there wired found it it was added uh to meta's ai app over multiple up and updates this year the feature is internally called name tag this is something google is explicitly eschewed back with google glass right and uh but on the other hand ring and google nest doorbells now are starting to do this you're starting to see this more and more are people getting used to

[01:57:23] the idea or do you think this is the reason that met is keeping a secret is this is a non-starter i think people are getting used to the idea that it's possible i don't think people are accepting of that idea uh i mean this is this is why met has been very cagey about it this is why meta in hearings has basically said we we would be very careful about implementing this this technology into our products

[01:57:48] uh i i think most of us understand that there's cameras on us everywhere no matter where we go we've seen it we see it on youtube we see it on the nightly news but the idea that someone could be specifically looking at us identifying us finding information about us just as we walk around outside i don't think we're ready for that as a society not yet um i and yet it would be so useful

[01:58:18] yeah no yeah because i have a terrible memory for faces i never and it's embarrassing that i can't remember people's names my sister is a retired minister and i can't imagine how you keep and if you don't know the name of the parishioner oh oh yeah you are in duty right yeah or or my father was a sales guy you're in you're in a conference i i'm horrible horrible faces and names absolutely horrible

[01:58:44] i could never go i you know give me 12 students and it takes me weeks to get them straight if i get about 10 years older then i can just start calling everyone my daughter and my son oh there you go yes my child my child that's my or my child i'm not there yet i'm not there yet well you my brother or sister in christ will always help you yeah we'll work that's now a meme if you say that it's well yeah that's the

[01:59:10] thing my brother yeah my brother in the filipino world everyone you don't you can't remember their name they're tita and tito yeah exactly just that's it i bet every language because this has to be a universal issue is not remembering people's names right every language must have a default y'all everyone here everyone here is but leo we know it wouldn't boss it wouldn't just be the names

[01:59:34] yeah benito's in manila he says everybody's boss it's bussing it's like what we say here everyone's yeah when i was a columnist in san francisco and they actually had my face on news racks and and and and trucks and people come up to me and and i wouldn't know whether i'm supposed to know them or not oh yeah so that's what i i took on the horrible conceit of saying howdy because howdy has no ellipsis okay in san francisco you don't say howdy leo you just say howdy howdy yeah howdy if you

[02:00:03] say hi there's a leo i've done that to cardinals and you said howdy i don't feel good about no i say oh it's so i haven't seen you and i'm doing all those things when was the last time we saw each other wait yeah you're trying to get context this is the only reason that you should have a wife father robert i'm not saying any other reason but but lisa and i have it worked out she will say okay i don't know the name so just introduce yourself right away and then they will introduce themselves and they'll

[02:00:31] and then she will know their name it's very handy if you have a partner of any kind we heard oh it's i'm leah what's your name cardinal we had a jesuit named paul locatelli who was the president of santa clara university and uh he had this incredible talent he knew every single face of every single graduate and every single parent he had ever met he could walk into a room cold and he knew your name

[02:00:59] he knew who your child was when they they attended the university and what they graduated it it was it was ridiculous i never figured out how he did it but he just had one of those memories now so the reason glasses i could do that right the reason this this meta thing is troubling is because we have all for years been tagging people with their names yeah on facebook right and google google photos the same

[02:01:23] thing and meta apparently wired's code review shows the name tag system is currently designed to pull face prints from meta's servers and store them on your device in your hands on your face not a big deal in palantir's hands yes in in in ice's hands that's where it becomes really why for the last seven years i've been poisoning both facebook and google with photos tagged with my names that aren't me you are

[02:01:53] a master of fuzzing i yeah it's just i was a free free time project yeah is it does robert redford have your name i mean who how do you choose who this no no no i just i put my name and i just use different faces just different faces yeah so the system doesn't know if you look in google for robert baliser you'll get like 150 different people yeah they're yeah they're they're they're quite different

[02:02:17] i am afraid that um the ship has sailed for me well yeah but you know what in your line of work you actually need you know it depends if you have public facing work if you uh and my line of work as well yeah no i we want our faces to be matched but maybe our habits we want to appear different which is why which is why i run that program called chaff which just does google searches on random dictionary words

[02:02:47] and that's why i get chicken mating harness ads all the time oh we talked about that last time you yeah exactly like i think we named the show chicken mating mating harnesses yeah exactly but it thinks i'm in vietnam so if i do searches it thinks i'm in vietnam it gives me local local uh answers for that so uh somebody in our youtube said if you talk about ai anymore i'm leaving well i'm sorry but there's a

[02:03:13] show for you yeah uh it's you know it's in the news for instance this was an ai week yeah the president uh this week signed an executive order seeking oversight of ai models nobody i don't know who thinks this is a good idea um they've softened it considerably it's voluntary it's voluntary it's only for

[02:03:36] 30 days before you release it he scrapped the uh the less voluntary 90 day order the idea being and i think it was really stimulated by anthropics mythos before an ai company can release a new model the government can should be able to check it to make sure it's not going to as if they would know what they're doing yeah they fired all the experts who would be able to go through a model and tell you

[02:04:01] whether or not it's it's good if i mean okay so if none of that were true and you trusted the government this seems like exactly the kind of thing government should do before i mean you can't release a vaccine without the government's approval right but again it's a general machine a vaccine is meant to do one thing and you can test its its efficacy for safety and efficacy right this is a machine you don't know what everybody's going to ask the machine to do what malign things are going

[02:04:26] to be required of it and thus you cannot protect against all of them this is why we have underwriters laboratory checking electronics to make sure it's not good but they do one thing go on fire right yeah that's pretty straightforward is somebody going to come along and ask this to create a uh you know a new weapon uh are they gonna find a way new way to insult leo laporte uh you don't know so there's no way the issue with this is there's no way to ascertain the safety of a model no no not in 30 days

[02:04:56] and the cyclical also being clear to the idea to align it with human values is absurd too at the at the higher level right it's not just a the guardrails but also this notion that we're going to make the virtuous machine is hubris so you know when trump came into office because he was you know funded to some degree by you know mark andreessen and and and uh brockman the president of open ai i think lots

[02:05:25] of books he got into office the first thing he did was throw out biden's ai regulation or a it was really just an executive order so it didn't have much force of law either but he went into office kind of with the stated goal of opening it up for ai because that's how we're going to compete that's how we're going to make america great again is is you know beat the chinese is by no no regulations limiting

[02:05:50] ai so doing this is almost a complete reversal and not the first one yet he's done it in such a way that it is so it is so meaningless that it is isn't it it appeals to both sides it has the appearance of regulation without actually doing anything yeah this actually goes hand in hand with the other bit of news concerning the administration which is trump is considering having the united states take ownership

[02:06:19] part ownership in these ai companies he wants he wants a bit of the pie interestingly sam altman proposed this from and and and um bernie sanders is talking about a version of this as well it's socialism yeah it is nationalizing industry yeah that's yeah but already the the government has a 10 stake in intel intel

[02:06:42] yeah i mean there's a precedent uh for this this was also a trump this was actually it's interesting because it was the chips act that biden passed but the but the president said well but for the money we're going to give you we want a stake in intel um when asked about this on air force one trump said there's something very interesting about it where it almost becomes a partnership with the american public it's like you make them partners in this revolution it would be a beautiful thing it would make them rich

[02:07:13] i don't know who them is in this um okay okay that was the same thing that happened when he signed the executive order making insider trading not illegal so yeah making them rich is not necessarily a good thing who do we want to make rich here yeah yeah you know what they say evil is the root of all money i like it i like it uh the fcc as you know has banned all foreign

[02:07:42] routers now the cable lobby the national cable television association wants a waiver because well guess who installs most foreign made routers in the home the cable companies that's where most people get their route hell yeah do we even have a list of what routers would qualify because everything's made in china well right now the only one not made in china is the starlink router but remember that

[02:08:09] netgear got a wafer okay hero got a wafer he wrote oh okay so i'm good yeah but the way you get the waiver is you just say yeah we're going to build these routers in the united states someday eventually eventually yeah yeah exactly it might take us three years someday yeah but then it'll be done and at least the fcc said you can continue to get off the software updates and firmware updates until january

[02:08:37] 2029 jeez it's like for okay let's talk about a security problem i mean okay look i i understand the idea of securing the edge yes let's let's secure all these routers but even if you did that all of the core is running on equipment made in china yeah so are you going to do that everything because that's kind of important when we were joking about this deep seek thing that i've you know this chinese

[02:09:02] device that i connected to my wi-fi and uh connects to immediately to deep seek in china i said i said boy isn't that dangerous harper reed suggested he said leo what of your stuff in your house is not made in china well yeah which of the wi-fi things you've got connected i have more than 100 devices connected to my wi-fi which of those is not made in china i don't know none of them as far as i

[02:09:29] know they're all made in china so but a router certainly is an attack surface there's no doubt about that the last device i could certify was 100 not made in china was do you remember google io one year they were they released that sphere oh yeah i bought that yeah that was 100 made in the united states and discontinued immediately because they could not make it cheap enough right yeah right

[02:09:57] did i buy that one or did i buy the camera that they put out that took pictures of you every five seconds no we they gave us the spheres just by going yes that's right they gave you at google io yeah uh google actually uh is a little bit of in a little bit of trouble uh in the uk uh google has to change its ai overviews the uk ordered them to put clearer links in ai search and to give uk publishers the option

[02:10:27] to opt out of those ai or for views or put that in other words allow the publishers to commit suicide right you don't want to be in search you don't have to be in search yeah this is from the uk's competition and markets authority it seems like we keep running that same story over and over it does doesn't it news there was a news readers the news aggregators and then the listing on google search it's i mean yes it sounds good it's fun to fight google but that ultimately it's suicide yeah yeah

[02:10:54] google is improving the links on on these searches i'm finding the links are more prominent now they're easier to go through there's more of them they didn't want to do it because they said it junks up the search results no what they really mean is because we can't game the search results as easily as we could before you might you might actually click that and go out of a you might leave you might

[02:11:16] leave you might leave sites that opt out will not receive traffic or impressions from our generative ai features here's a cup of hemlock for you yeah exactly because you know yeah because as always piracy is not the real problem it's obscurity yeah yes yes by the way microsoft is doing the same thing with bing

[02:11:41] so there are stories from large publishers that end up on microsoft's the msn page and if you search for that story it will give you the msn link you actually have to go to google to search for the story to actually get the original link i don't know i know one's complaining about that because no one's using bing yeah i've got over a million points on bing i'm gonna spend them at

[02:12:06] some point well good news you can keep your microsoft windows 10 running for another year with just what is it 5 000 bing points you could you could keep that dgx spark on windows for right you've only got four months at this point though oh that's true well yeah that's a good point uh i think windows 10 might be the last windows on my machines i'm gonna migrate them to linux seriously yeah i'm not using 11. i'm with you yeah i'm already i have successfully migrated my

[02:12:34] in-laws over to linux wow it is work it is working fine which version of linux did you choose for them uh mint because it looks like windows it feels like windows yeah it looks like windows it feels like windows and then um the next thing is to put a raspberry pi that i can open zd into to maintain our system zd is a zero trust opens for zero trust system from netfoundry.io

[02:13:03] so you're oh that's interesting i i would i could imagine you using a pie hole or something in fact father robert told us how to install one of those back in the day i know how uh that would limit their dns uh searches and thereby limit them from going to bad yeah and i can combine that the the reason i would use open zd is because uh if you port scan the network that raspberry pi does not show up at all

[02:13:28] the only way into that raspberry pi is by using a cryptographic id because uh in netfoundry we basically say uh you know in god we trust everybody else gets zero trust so it's got no open ports it's behind the it's behind the the router and there is a network you communicate with a network overlay and okay rather than via a port and um got it

[02:13:53] what that basically means is that scale a little bit or in the similar field but tail scale is a vpn so once you're inside the network yeah you do have permission to do anything whereas with uh open cd policy uh because it's zero trust you can only do what the policy policy determines what you're allowed to do yeah that's yeah that's that sounds like a good solution yeah all right i'm going to take a little break and then we have our final stories this has been so much fun i hate to

[02:14:22] wrap it up joey de villa tell me tell me you don't have uh mass at six o'clock in the morning rubber i don't i have the 4 30. oh wait in the morning i'm not going to go to sleep until after the 4 30 a.m good a.m who comes to 4 30 mass yeah there's a there's a special mass we do down in the tomb of saint peter's and oh that's a that's probably very prestigious to be doing that yeah

[02:14:49] but i'm down with the with saint peter pope 1.0 you're when you come i'll i'll take you down there it's it's very well there's a window you can look when you if you go to the basilica no no no this is the special one this is the chapel of saint clementine it's right next to the tomb of saint peter it's so is but this is the uh the altar in saint peter's right above the straight up yeah but but there's there's no way to look down there there there is ways to look down but not into this chapel

[02:15:15] this is a special chapel oh wow wow so i'm telling you that's a pretty high-end mass do you do you draw straws for that who has to get how do you get that uh you just have to ask the right people i'm i'm at the point where i actually know some of the right people now that's and now how it can't be a very big chapel oh a maximum is 12 people sitting or maybe 17 people standing so who gets invited to that

[02:15:44] mass yeah yeah of dignitaries diplomats yeah it's the illuminati isn't it it's the illuminati day is what it is that's what this guy's running the antimatter machine the guys running all the yeah the lamp stuff yeah that is so cool we've got to go another three hours to keep him awake now oh yeah well we might as well i think you're longer holy cow wow and you do you do that in the vernacular

[02:16:13] or do you do that in latin uh italian actually italian do you do singly i'm sorry no no it's just i'm going here yes yes you do but the homily is short we so it's five minutes which for some people that's difficult for me that's normal i i always do short homilies what do you know what your homily will be today i make it up as a go i i don't write it i i always i like it to be you know what the

[02:16:39] subject will be do you have a verse oh yeah oh no no i've read the scriptures and i i know what like the ideas that i want but i i make it as i go just so that it's dynamic yeah i'm not one of these guys who goes up and says marriage marriage yeah i'm i'm picturing the stonecutter song who controls the british bound we do i uh i did make a song you were here for that uh out of oh yes on six

[02:17:09] seven six seven yeah well six seven by the way yeah i have been told by a number of our club members is so catchy they can't stop singing today is six seven created an earworm leo today is six seven by the way okay yeah and today we will end the show with six seven although i'm told by the kids it's now six eight what i don't think that's true i think they're messing with me no no no no

[02:17:36] now i will play i will play six seven six seven uh by the way six six eight is the neighbor of the beast that's right it's right next door uh coming up in just a little bit uh father robert balassare who is staying up late tonight so nice to have you wow i'm just blown away that is amazing what's the name of the chapel saint clementine i think clement clement wow the patron saint of oranges

[02:18:04] is he aren't there clementine orange yeah for christmas i i lose track of the the patronages uh oh i know it's complicated many now yeah abby uh took the name of uh saint abigail because she's abby yeah yeah uh jeff jarvis is also here he's a good presbyterian don't don't well they'll actually have a very bad one but that's not bad president he's a bad presbyterian even worse uh but he's a

[02:18:32] good scotsman thank you for being here jeff it's always great to see you of course he'll be back wednesday for intelligent machines and joey de villa congratulations netfoundry.io hey he's putting zd on everything oh yeah zd on all the places i wonder if maybe i'll put open zd on my uh on my router that's a really good idea i will talk you have tail scale running but you're right once they're in

[02:18:54] the network they can do anything they want got to limit that very very good very very good our show today brought to you by my mattress i love my mattress gosh i had such great dreams last night but you know you were in my dreams i think i was yelling at you though so i apologize i apologize for that i love my helix sleep mattress about a year ago now uh before we were doing the

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[02:22:30] twit you're gonna love it helixsleep.com twit uh it is the seventh day of june in the year 2026 i'm gonna play just a little bit of this i'll jump i'll jump to the um i'll jump to the uh number with swagger oh this is i'll jump to the chorus it's nonsense

[02:22:57] half the time it blooms everybody sing along don't overthink it that's the trick it lands like a shrug then it sticks a number with swagger a wink not a clue they say it for the vibe not to hand it to you six seven six seven that's the whole scene six seven six seven

[02:23:23] loud and mean six seven six seven it's a flex not a fact you can explain it but it won't it is catchy and i hate that i hate the fact that it's catchy no padre we need a seven six we need a karaoke version we do oh yeah we're filipino so we're gonna yeah exactly yeah well you did hear the uh the the gregarian chant i think i made it while you

[02:23:48] were there to the pope's encyclical to section 238 your favorite section yes my mind was 99 not beginning with ourselves now did you put that text in there or did you just say okay but it had but the lyric writer which is uh probably chat gpt i'm thinking clearly can go out because i didn't tell it what six seven was

[02:24:18] and it wrote those lyrics so it went out and figured out what it was you know what six seven was all about and it nailed it frankly nice that it means absolutely nothing the kids just use it to mess with your head uh oh i just closed the uh window of both at&t and verizon uh lost in the supreme court uh they upheld

[02:24:43] the fcc's power to find them over data sales eight to one goodness 100 but it's a mere 104 million dollars and fines for at&t and verizon a rounding error it's nothing come on who's the one yeah really at&t and verizon didn't just sell access to customer location data they failed to prevent that data from reaching bounty hunters and even a sheriff who uses to track

[02:25:11] people without their knowledge and then of course they sold it to data brokers who are the real bad agents yeah i mean bad enough i mean law enforcement gets it but data brokers who knows you know they're going to sell it to anybody so so which supreme court justice is the friend of dog the bounty hunter uh one that's a good question did they did they say who the uh they must have let me

[02:25:37] look and see if i can find this i mean yes whoever wrote the dissent yeah who is yeah who who is most in the pocket of at&t and verizon take a guess oh clarence it was clarence thomas clarence thomas ah okay yeah that's i figured i thought surprise surprise surprise remember it's not it's not selling out it's buying in

[02:26:03] the fact the fact that you don't have a unanimous decision that it's not okay to circumvent constitutional protections that's scary to me that really is this should have been a no-brainer yeah you know the idea that i'm going to allow law enforcement or non-law enforcement to have information that should only be obtainable via warrant that i mean then what are we doing here if we're now pretending that i can ignore civil rights as long as i buy the data from someone

[02:26:31] that's a horrible precedent uh this was a week that youtubers won big at the box office uh huge success you saw this coming you saw this coming it was coming wasn't it yeah yeah uh back rooms which i went to see on the 29th uh opening night actually cane pixels the director was there he's a local boy 20 years old got 10 million dollars from a24 to make this movie it has already

[02:27:01] made more than a hundred million dollars in its first weekend it is a huge success so does that put it over marty supreme already or not yet i hope so marty supreme not i finally watched that i did not enjoy it um it was not a good movie i have not yet seen it don't it got a lot of buzz but i got nine academy or eight or nine academy award nominations one zero so that'll tell you

[02:27:26] something okay so youtubers out there start making movies i want to see annoying orange the movie soon no we already saw annoying arms the tv show and that wasn't good there are but that's what's interesting creators it's interesting that you brought that up because that was the first round of hollywood saying oh you know this youtube thing's big this was 10 years ago let's bring some of these people and they put them on nickelodeon and stuff and it was not good because it was the wrong way

[02:27:51] yeah yeah how so and and and well i i i think that you've got to recognize that the new things are built in the new medium and you leave them there you don't try to bring them into the old medium although making a movie out of it did okay yeah well i think we're going to see more and more of that i mean we had uh robert turcic on intelligent machines last week who's very hollywood yes he was great

[02:28:14] talked about he was great and he talked about um the um uh ai in the lot conference where we're going to see movies made there's one movie that's it's it's premiering at tribeca film festival made entirely in a.i so between the distribution side and the making side it it's it's it's exploding and then what was the other one obsession is it obsessions

[02:28:40] obsession obsession yeah another youtube movie a youtuber making a movie and a huge success the youtubers i really want to see make it um have you ever heard of viva la dirt league yes they're new zealand i watch them regularly they started they were just making funny games about gaming stereotypes or funny shorts about gaming stereotypes but they actually have chops they

[02:29:05] have acting and directing chops uh they've they've done a few longer formats uh pieces and they're fantastic uh that's the kind of youtuber i want to see see transition into long format storytelling the other one i'd be interested in seeing would be the archive in between so they do these um they do these

[02:29:29] shorts that feel like 50s style um info info films okay about the about um they're basically tour tourism for the multiverse where they talk about different different cities or different parts of the patchwork city which is where every universe in the multiverse intersects and what you can expect

[02:29:52] to see and it's fascinating what's it called again what's the name the archive in between okay and they also have news alerts talking about oh beware uh this creature from universe x157 is now terrorizing the neighborhood retreat to your home follow the instructions in your in intergalactic interloper kit inter-universal interloper kit and they're done so well and it feels like a 1950s

[02:30:21] 1960s uh civil defense film and it's all ai it's written i believe it's written by humans but definitely ai generated images uh but yeah really great stuff that goes in hand in hand with that story that youtube took the streaming hours crown back from netflix absolutely worldwide youtube

[02:30:43] is has longer daily average viewing around the world over netflix this is this is huge i'm so frustrated with youtube these days because the the slop that the new kind of slop that's being made there is i'll get a fake script for you know i'll see something i like like like uh campbell soup the original campbell soup since i used to live next to the campbell soup test kitchen farm in new jersey yes new jersey yes south jersey and where all the best tomatoes are made yes so uh you'll

[02:31:13] see something like how campbell soup rose and fell okay that's interesting i'll watch that for no it's it's awful it's it's it's a slop script fake voice a bunch of images picked up from nowhere and it's wrong it's made up stuff it's cheap though my youtube is just but it's confidently wrong yes that's ai so you so what happened is netflix went down it uh in 2024 it was 100 get this 100 minutes

[02:31:39] a day average down to 93 while youtube went up in 2025 99.1 uh minutes a day on average uh i'm up way above that i i more than 99 more than an hour and a half running it's it's like background music for me ah the same here just keeps going so and what do you have on there is educational and informational

[02:32:04] stuff or is it uh well unfortunately because i do fuzz the data if i just let it go i get weird that'll teach you that'll teach you you liar you uh so you turned on autoplay see i turned that off if i turn on autoplay i will get the weirdest content oh yeah it might be kind of fun i can't do that no it's just get a doobie uh sit back maybe a beer bong yeah there we go oh that's right

[02:32:31] you're not allowed probably no no no but you can in the incense burner you hide all right i'm sorry have you sorry robert have you never been an altar boy do you know none of the trink frankincense the incense burner you mean the thoroughfare yeah yeah that thing yeah gen z remained youtube's most engaged age group last year averaging 111 minutes a day but growth was strongest among priests age oh

[02:32:55] no wait a minute men oh sorry there we go age 55 to 64. uh-oh where viewing has increased 15 since 2024. daily average youtube users also increased for women of all age groups south koreans watch youtube the most 161 and a half minutes a day france recorded the biggest growth up by a third

[02:33:19] how much of the south korean numbers are from mukbangs yeah i don't know what that is should i that's just watching people eat people eat an enormous amount of food that's what that is yeah well like i'm going to try every burger in this burger place that's a mukbang yeah but is that is that specific to south korea no no there's everywhere but it's popular it's popular there but they've got american

[02:33:46] cable you can see stuff like yeah but they've now adopted the word yeah they've just adopted the word for everything now so somebody's done a mcdonald's mukbang wow yeah right now yeah youtube for me is mostly like uh legal i i get a lot of legal um content um interesting auditing courts and and uh and lawyers giving out their their personal opinions on personal cases it's fun stuff for me i like the

[02:34:13] law i would have been a lawyer if i wasn't a priest i feel like i should be more consistent my youtube viewing because it's good angel bad angel yeah there you go i know they compete for the same eyeballs and stuff but youtube and netflix aren't the same no that's true no no they're not at all but youtube that's the point i think benito is that youtube recognizes the culture is recognizing a different

[02:34:41] genre of of entertainment netflix tries to recreate the old genres movies and tv shows youtube is something different and the fact that it's bigger says a lot and i have to say half maybe half my youtube consumption is listening rather than directly watching yeah that's true oh interesting yeah that's what they say podcasts yeah are very big on youtube and of course you know our show

[02:35:07] even though we do video is really there's nothing to see here just hey hey hold on like at least an hour of my day on youtube is actually me on my bike and i'm just listening to it i've got uh i've got my phone clipped on my shoulder and uh i'm just listening to youtube videos lately a lot of nate b jones

[02:35:31] talking about ai i love nate b jones yeah jones is great yeah so i i just listen i just listen to him it's either that or um what else um on the other hand uh either adam conover or behind the bastards do you think i bet you everybody's ai i mean youtube viewing is completely unique right you could fingerprint somebody from what they watch pretty much because you're mentioning channels that are huge

[02:36:00] that i've never heard of and yet i watch ai probably i mean youtube i keep calling it ai i don't know why i think this is actually the primary difference between youtube and netflix is that everything under the sun is on youtube like everything that's right yeah that's a lot of commonality what people watch on netflix we all watch the same roughly the same stuff well yeah yeah and so on youtube you create you curate it yourself you you curate right netflix kind of does it for you

[02:36:29] right yeah i went through months where i was binging on air traffic control conversations i don't know why but i just started like liking those and then i fell out of love with it and i moved on to van life and then i moved on to legal stuff so okay there we go yeah but are you doing that under your name or do you have some special account that is i create a special account for curating uh because otherwise it's too chaotic yeah yeah i'm watching a lot of that stuff on tick tock

[02:36:58] well we thank everybody who's watching us on youtube 657 people right now thank you uh we do uh this show on youtube twitch x facebook linkedin and kick but it's most consistently uh youtube uh is where most people uh watch of course if you're in the club you can also watch in the club twit discord uh we do the show every sunday two to five pacific five to eight eastern midnight to 4 30

[02:37:24] a.m in the uh in italy uh robert thank you so much for being here we appreciate it father robert balassare digital jesuit jesuit pilgrimage.app is the app that he designed uh but there's a whole lot more to robert he is on blue sky some we know about some we don't know about yeah always a pleasure always a pleasure we love having you on it's great to see good to see you again putter i'm so i'm so privileged to see you twice in a week this has been a fantastic week i get to work with you it

[02:37:54] it makes me feel like uh i did when back when i was still at twit so oh we miss having you here miss you living in our basement in the no hole the no hole yeah k-n-o-w uh thank you robert now we get to the basement uh the clementine chapel yeah it's a higher quality basement but there are but there

[02:38:18] are no bean bags in there aren't no we have hard chairs very very uncomfortable i'm sure i don't know do you say good mass have a good mass have a good mass uh yeah that works break it we get it break a leg don't break a leg um just just uh just have a great time down there in the chapel i'll bring i'll bring you down there when you come over leo i would i would be honored i would love to see that seriously i gotta bring abby with me because it would be so meaningful oh yeah yeah yeah yeah

[02:38:49] uh jeff jarvis of course will be back on wednesday we'll interview jeffrey cannell from news research about hermes we talk ai on intelligent machines his book hot type available from his website jeffjarvis.com and audiobook finished i'll do the last pickups on tuesday things i muffed up which are many do they start as you're reading it do they stop you as you're reading or do they let you kind of roll and then the first time i did an audio book you just went on from wherever you screwed up and did it again

[02:39:17] now that means they got to edit now now you screw up and they say no no you gotta take that again and they back up and you get let's say a three-word cue and then you have to pick up right then that's so it matches yeah so it matches yeah i've because that's sometimes you'll hear that in audio book you can tell there's an edit because it just changes so dramatically yeah so then you they want you to hear how you were talking and then just kind of yeah then i did the pickups from when i screwed up things like i said code instead of wood it's that kind of stuff right uh and um don't you get to

[02:39:46] say hey i'm the author and could is fine to some extent but they get pretty they wanted when there were cases there were cases where i said this doesn't make sense in audio i'm changing this they said okay it's your book you can do that but no generally they wanted to be they want to be able to yeah you'll hear that on audiobooks they'll say if you're listening instead of if you're reading which is right the text said right yeah that makes that i hate say i still it's still a book i won't say this audio book for listeners versus readers i went to that but but they'll they'll play what i screwed up and then right after that i have to say the same thing corrected so that i think i've heard

[02:40:15] how my tone was right right then and you refuse to read the part at the beginning about what at the end where it says no ai company may take this in this universe or any future universe because you're evil bastards i won't read that part so they have to find other they they they have plenty of other voices who've read that because because like like me you and embrace the ai yeah i do i overlaid i do let him yes

[02:40:41] i think we made a deal with somebody that if people wanted ai wanted twits content for ai they would go to this company and license it but who's gonna do that it just seemed odd to me but i guess we give you a legal pro rata i don't know how it works i should ask what was the name of the company it's oh i don't

[02:41:06] know who it is no um it's pro i mean i don't even know if it's on our page is it on our page does it say like if you'd like to license this content please contact pro rata i don't know it should say that somewhere but uh i mean we could put all the twit content in the archives over here storage vault now so like what not to do like how how not to be right uh thank you very much jeff

[02:41:35] thank you joey congratulations on the new gig at netfoundry.io developer advocate and you're gonna work working on some what ai thing there what are you working on uh i'm there uh what i'm doing is i'm promoting a lot of the new ai tooling so it's built on top of open zd and it is for agents to talk to llms agents to talk safely mcp servers safely and agents to talk to other agents

[02:42:03] all zero trust basically you're either using zero trust or you're going bust zero trust or bust zero trust or bust joey de villa you should write a uh accordion song for that joey's a great accordionist as well there we go i mean you've got an llm to generate that song leo no no i i believe in the humans i bring in uh we brought in a chorus to do that six seven song organic as a as a musician

[02:42:30] i am a protein chauvinist let the meat make the music carbon-based life forms for me thank you very much thank you all for watching a special thanks to our club to members who make this show possible uh yes we have advertising covers about 70 maybe 60 of our costs in order to do these shows we need your help and boy you've really stepped up and we appreciate it twitter tv club twitter if you're not

[02:42:57] a member if you're not a member you will not be able to see our coverage of wwdc tomorrow we all the keynote stuff is i don't like paywalls but we have to put it behind the paywall so we don't get taken down to see it twitter tv club to it you also get ad free versions of all the shows special programming we do only uh for our club members and a lot more but mostly you get the good warm and fuzzy feeling of

[02:43:22] knowing you're supporting independent journalism beholden to none except you are the users because we're all users here thanks joey robert jeff thanks to all of you for joining us we will see you next time and as i've been saying for 21 freaking years another twit is in the can we'll see you later bye