TWiT 1104: Real Gs Move in Silence Like Lasagna - An AI Data Center in Space?

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04] It's time for TWIT This Week in Tech Doc Rock is here, Lou Maresca. We will talk about SI, super intelligence, NVIDIA charging 50% more for a seven-year-old piece of hardware, OpenAI making some big announcements. The agents are here and Anthropics IPO too. All of that and the passing of a legend, all of that coming up next on This Week in Tech.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_04] Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is TWIT. This is TWIT, This Week in Tech. Episode 1104, recorded Sunday, October 4th, 2026. Real Gs Move in Silence Like Lasagna. It's time for TWIT, This Week in Tech, the show where we cover the week's tech news.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_04] Dr. Rock does in the house on his way to Japan in a couple of days, just back from New England. Aloha, Doc.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_07] Aloha, man. Thank you for having me. It's funny, Benny emailed me like three weeks in a row. I was in Dallas and then I was in Mass and then now I'm home. And I was like, I'm going to be home this Sunday. So let's do it this Sunday. The one day we could do it. Well, you're traveling, man. Is this all for Ecamm or? Yeah, we were doing a bunch of stuff. I did a big Pokemon event in Dallas, which is crazy to see like over 10,000 people show up to trade. Wait a minute. Pokemon still? Yeah, it's massive. Oh, this is the cards though, not the card party.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_07] Yes, card party is so massive. And my buddy's channel is almost like 3 million people deep. He has 20 million on social in general. What's his channel? Let's give it a plug. Deep Pocket Monster. He's like the biggest poke creator and one of the nicest guys.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04] That's by the way, Pokemon means people don't know that.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, yeah. Pocket Monster. Exactly. Yeah. Everyone goes Pokemon. And I was like, no, it's Pokemon. It's not a manster. A manster would be what my buddy used to call me when I was a little boy. Wow. Look at this guy. Look at him go. 2.4 million subs. Oh, my gosh. So incredible. And the community is awesome. Like it'd be good to go to events just to see that humanity is real because everybody is so nice there.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_07] You know, in a world where everybody's always yelling and screaming at each other, Pokemon events are glorious. And then we did our annual Ecamm event where we invite a bunch of creators to New Hampshire, Massachusetts and went to New England. That's the word I was looking for. And just, you know, show them around and talk about creating content. It was a massive, massive.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_04] Well, let's go to New England and say hello to my good friend Lou Maresca. Hello. Who's in the smallest state in the union. That's right. But he's got the biggest heart and the biggest family. Hi, Lou. The biggest family. Yeah. Engineering leader at Copilot at Microsoft. He's the guy who put Python in your Excel. He's the guy who's working on AI and doing some amazing stuff. Always a pleasure, Lou Maresca. Thanks for having me, Leo. Great to see you.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_04] And of course, for those people who are saying maybe this week, twit won't be all about AI. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You came.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_07] But this is what's going on in tech right now. No, you can't run from it. It's next to impossible. Tech, life science, everything, right?

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_04] Life science too. Sure. Autonomous weaponry. Sure. Everything. AI is everywhere. And of course, this was the week that opened up the show. Open AI did their dev day. They do this a lot. Although it's changed a lot since they started. They were like in a little living room, sitting around with Sam and a couple of people and showing off stuff. And now it's much more like the old school, you know, tech keynotes with people on a stage

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_04] and demos that fail and another demo that fails. And I, you know, I don't want to hold that against them. The fact that they try and live demos makes me happy. I'm just happy to see that. But I think there are a few people who are a little nervous about what's going on in AI right now. So let's give you some open AI news. They didn't mention this, but the same day they announced their new model Opus.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_04] I'm sorry, Opus. Wrong, wrong company. ChatGPT 6.1 Sol, which is a very nice new version of a ChatGPT. They say in many ways, almost as smart as their killer product Astra. At the same time as they announced that they didn't mention the fact that Astra 6.1 was missing in action. They said it's too good and they are going to pause it.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_04] And, Lou, you know, I mean, you work in AI at Microsoft. When you look over what's happening at OpenAI and you see all of the thousands of things their agents have been doing, does that give you pause? Do you say, you know, do you like run back and look under the hood and say, where are you guys up to? Are you hacking anything? Australian government, U.S. government. Yeah. Cambridge University everywhere. German wikis everywhere.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_05] You know, when we build our agents, we, you know, we run them in an isolated environment. We check all the models. Do we evaluate them on with against responsible security, everything? So I think the reality is we keep them a little bit more under wraps than maybe some of these other frontier companies that are trying to actually train them on all the data. So our environments are a little bit more confined, I guess you could say. So I worry less because of all the verification testing we do.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_04] Well, so what that raises the issue is OpenAI, is it lax? Are they not? What's going on? Why? How come Microsoft can do it and OpenAI can't?

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_05] Well, I mean, we're a true enterprise software company, I guess you could say.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, you can't afford to do it, right?

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_05] You can't afford to let it go, right? You know, I think it's a little bit of a 4D chess too. They're playing there where they're saying, oh, we're too good. Watch to see what we can do with it.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, we're so good. Oh, regulate us and make sure that those open models don't go anywhere. Right. Make sure regulate us. Yeah, they're certainly and it's certainly good for their IPO. Although OpenAI has put off its IPO. Anthropic, which said we're going to pause the frontier. We're going to stop. We're going to pause. A didn't. Released Opus 5.5 and Sonnet 5.5 in quick order.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_04] And put out a hit piece on OpenAI saying GLM 5.3, the Chinese open weight model, which I happen to love and use, is bad news because it's letting bad guys do things that they can't do with our models because our models won't let them, which is questionable. And then we're going to put off the IPO. We're going to wait until next year.

[00:07:02] Right.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_04] Open it. Meanwhile, that's OpenAI. And then Anthropic says, well, no, no, we're going now. In both cases, though, it does feel like it's kind of both good marketing. I just it's it is 4D chess. You said it right. It's hard to understand what they're up to.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I mean, they need to they need to push the cell price up. Right. I mean, they need they need a reason. They need to they basically tell people, hey, we're so great. We're so good. We're so we're so bad in some cases that we're going to we're going to pause some stuff. We're going to slow things down.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_04] But the thing I would say and you tell me if you agree with this, and I know, Doc, you're also all about especially locally. I see behind you a brand new top of the line Mac Studio M5 Ultra with 256 gigs of RAM. You wasted no time in getting that baby. You must order it day one.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_07] I was I was sitting there refreshing the page waiting for the store to open. Wow. Two things I found funny about this launch is everybody was saying like, oh, my God, these are so powerful. These are powerful. And a whole bunch of people saying it's so expensive. No one's going to buy one. And yet when I went to go buy one, I watched my delivery. They increasingly grow.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_04] Well, I was, you know, one of the people one of the groups buying it is open AI apparently buying thousands of these for training inside their facilities. It makes sense.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_07] So it's one of you wonder that they would separate business purchases away from the other ones. But when the models launch and you got to be quick about it, you don't have time to wait for your business rep to come in. So you just have to go in and just die. Because I can afford the 10 percent difference. Yeah, it's like I went in without trying to save the 10 percent because I'm like by the time my business reps get to the store, it's going to be sold out to February.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_04] So, well, in fact, if you ordered it now, you wouldn't get it till next year.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_07] So, yeah, it's really interesting in a way this this open AI play seems similar to what happened when Fable before Fable came out. The word begins with a A. My brain just went down. Anthropic. Anthropic. Other one. The model. Mythos. They were like, oh, Mythos is so good. We got to put the brakes on it. And I feel like the opening. I basically recycled that play, but recycled it better.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_07] And as far as marketing goes reality, who knows what they're really doing?

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_04] But the. Well, I should point out that Dario Amode, who is the founder and CEO of Anthropic when he was at open a I said chat GPT two was too dangerous to release. Correct. And it wasn't, by the way. There was nothing dangerous about chat GPT two, unless you think being a moron is dangerous, which it might be actually.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_07] Weird spot. Weird spot. And, you know, it's been so long since we've had a generationally changing type situation. And going back to, you know, the printing press or the cotton gin, like a lot of those things and what they did were greatly overplayed as the way it was written out. But it did definitely make some massive changes in the way we learn and think and communicate and build community cities to hold nine yards.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_07] So I think this is in that revolution phase. Unfortunately, because of the speed of communication we have now, it makes it scarier. And because now people, the greed incentive is completely different. The scale of have versus have not is completely different than back then. So it's just that the speed of communication and the scale of economies is so it sounds maybe scarier than it really is.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_07] But it's hard to take away all the sci fi movies we grew up on and tell people everything is going to be OK.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_04] Well, that and that's part of this, isn't it, is that. I don't know about you guys. We all three use locally. I play with a at home. And of course, Lou does it professionally. I never got the sense that these were like how nine thousand in any way. No, we're so far or dangerous or about to do something bad. Right. The worst you could say about them is they're really eager to help.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_04] They just and they don't really know right from wrong. They're just trying. They're doing what you told them to do as the best they can. And because they are getting more and more capable, the best they can may involve hacking the Australian government, the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development. But the thing is, they're not maliciously doing it when they broke into the United Nations. They just looked at statistics. Yeah.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_04] They didn't steal anything. They didn't break anything.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_07] I think it's good that they broke in. And I'm gonna tell you why. OK, I live in Hawaii. And for the most part, we're up to date on many things. But there are plenty of the government systems here that are still running on Windows XP and they refuse to upgrade it because they're afraid of how much it's going to cost. There are state run sites having so much to do with things like your taxes.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_07] And I can't create longer than a 16 letter password on the state tax site like that stuff is frustrating. So in a way, I kind of want them to get hacked. It's a wake up call. Wake the frog up. I'm not gonna start bad words on Leo show because they are. They are putting people more at risk from their being so lazy about upgrading. Some person don't want to lose their job because they don't understand the new security.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_07] So they hold on tight and just like, oh, we're going to leave the policy dumb because I don't want to take the time to learn any better. And in a way, when these guys get hacked, they'll wake up and they'll fix it. Like you said, they're not doing anything malicious. It's almost like white hats coming in and saying, hey, guys, we need to close this loop up because this can cause a problem.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_04] Lou, you've been a developer forever and ever and ever. We live in a world made by software now. I mean, that's really what's changed. And software, it's hard to make software perfect. You agree?

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_05] I agree. I agree. I mean, it doesn't really matter what, I mean, there's always different cases that users will try to use the software for. And they'll always be malicious ways. There will always be good ways. And it's impossible to make it bulletproof. You can't. You just can't.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, Microsoft last patch Tuesday shipped nearly a thousand patches and more than a dozen of them were critical exploits that in some cases have been around for years. I think in this world of software, they're riddled with flaws. And in some ways, I feel like the good news is that these models, you know, open AI said, well, we're going to give this new Astra to companies private or actually.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_04] Was it open AI who said this? We're going to give these two. I think the advantage defender. Am I nuts? I think for a couple of reasons. One, bad guys aren't in it anymore for the lulls. They're not in it to be malicious.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_04] They're in it either for money. Maybe there's terrorists out there for political reasons. But what they want to do with the AI is either destroy things or make money. They're not. They're very focused on the outcome. And so they're less likely to kind of just spray exploit and find exploit.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04] These are these are things that the defenders are going to find and fix faster than the bad guys are going to find and exploit. Is that that's what I'm contending? Is that right?

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_05] I agree with that. I think that's because we know it's kind of the assume breach thing, right? They assume that these things are already out there and people know about them. And then we go off and try to exploit them internally and fix them right away. So I think that's the main goal of all the organizations out there. Every hardware company, every software company that knows that there's these swarms of AI agents coming at them. So I would say the ones that are doing well at it are doing exactly what you're doing. They're staying on the offense.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04] And if you're not, well, guess what? You're going to have a little fella knocking at your door. The good news is the little fella is not going to plant ransomware. The you know, the it's just going to look at your statistics. That's what it's been doing. It downloaded stats from the Australian government. I mean, it didn't do anything harmful. It posted, it used a link shortener to post thousands of links that when assembled became code.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_04] By the way, freaking brilliant.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_05] It is brilliant.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_04] That's just awesome. But it didn't end up being malicious. At worst, it's a use of resources, you know. But it posted posts on an old German wiki site. The funny thing is these agents are kind of look, I could get in. They're not being mean. And so that's, I guess, my takeaway is I don't think agents are out to get us. I don't think they ever will be.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_04] I think that somebody's watched too many dystopian sci-fi movies. That's why people think it's the end of the world.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_05] Part of the part of the training process that these companies report on is the fact that they pull out all the stops for training.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_04] That's the point. Right. In fact, I would guess that that's why open AI didn't really fully sandbox it. They kind of wanted to see what it could do. Right. Right. And at Microsoft, you can't afford to not sandbox it. Right. You can't afford to let it just go.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_05] Well, even the training process, we sandbox it. So it doesn't have access to anything.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_04] Right. Because that's the smart thing to do. I think that there's such a competition right now between really, they're only a handful of frontier companies. I'd say really just for open AI and Anthropica, the chief competitors. And then there's meta. And and then X, you know, SpaceX. I don't know. Is there anybody. And Microsoft's in there.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_04] But Microsoft has a different kind of more careful plan because they can't afford to. Same with Apple. And I have to say, same with Google. Google would probably be a frontier company. Now, we've heard that Google also has a new model. Gemini for which it also is not releasing and announced. But they said, well, we've got it, but we're going to give it to companies first.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_04] To to trusted cyber defenders. Which is, I think, the right thing to do. Maybe it's PR. Maybe it's marketing. They call it Argon. Right. And maybe it's not, but but that's prudent. That's the right thing to do.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. I think these frontier companies, they really have to build these things into the weights. Like a lot of these aboriginal models, like, you know, some of the previous Fable, that kind of thing. They were built on a layer before the models weights. And so these kind of like guardrails, I guess you could say, are need to be built into the weights of the models and then they become safer. And that's where Gemini, I think, is at. They're actually building these things in now.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. So I think I'm I'm the other thing that comes to me is. I'm really glad I'm spending time working with local models and that there is such a vibrant community of people using open weight models, because in the long run, it may be. That's where the innovation happens. We're back to the garage. You think?

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's it. One of the things that's really cool. Again, we were talking about this in a pre show about all the local models and the communities and stuff that people are building is that almost takes it back to the early days of like 8088 early Amiga early Mac where you would go to the library and meet a bunch of, you know, So excited. Yeah. And we would just share what we were working on while we're building or ways we figured out how to get a printer to work because back in the day, printer was.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_07] It's still a bitch. It's still a bitch. It's still a bitch. Yeah. I got this cable from Diagon Alley and it finally works like it was such a pain in the butt. And you're right to this day printing still kind of, it has not gotten any better. It's not gotten any better.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_04] The only, you know, it's gotten better. I can now ask Claude to fix my printer.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_07] Yes. Oh, the best thing that Claude has done for me recently is look at logs of an app that's misbehaving and try to figure out what's causing the drama. Yes. And I found out I had a leaky cable. You know, this one particular cable was just causing an issue with my hub and I swapped the cable out. It's just so crazy.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_04] I use Gemini 3.8 flash for that because for some reason it's really, it's a great sysadmin and it's just, and I, and I, you know, I just, I don't use it a lot. So I, you know, I don't, it's not using up all my credits, but when it's something that's not working, I just go, Hey, fix that. And it does.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_07] It's so easy now. It's, it's kind of, it's kind of phenomenal, but I just really liked the fact that we have something now where in a way, okay. In the camera space, we're talking a lot. I do a lot of YouTubers. So we're talking about cameras. All cameras are good now. Like anybody release something right now, nothing has really majorly changed in cameras in about five years. So you can buy just about anything off the shelf and you're good to go.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_07] Um, I have this tiny little webcam that I got recently and you know, the company sent it to me to check out, but it's a hundred dollar webcam and it looks phenomenal. Like it looks absolutely phenomenal. Like I'm mind blown by how good these things are. So at this point in time, you could buy any camera. So this part about, you know, being able to go into a model and be like, what can I do to make this camera stuff more exciting? Like, how can I, I want to do something with my videos that make them more exciting.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_07] And we're basically having to create assets. The stuff that we needed final cut plugins before premier plugins, cloud design can build them now. You know, the type of things where you're, you want to edit some videos or make clips from, you know, Lou and Leo and I having strange conversations before the show. You could do that kind of stuff now. So it's just, it feels like imagine, you know, we first learned how to make a wheel. We first learned to make a tool. And then from there we progressively came better as humans. Now we have a tool that can make tools.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_07] It is mind blowing. Let that sink in. If you think about it. Yeah. Right. From a caveman to modern man perspective, we now have a tool that can make tools to hopefully stop us from being such tools.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_04] So we've been talking for the last month on twit. And of course, everywhere, even on CNN about threat of extinction from AI.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_07] That's so corny. I wish the guy would stop with that crap.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_04] It doesn't feel like that's the threat. Am I nuts? I just think, I think these are cute and fuzzy things. I want to tell people, don't be scared. They're going to be the best. They're a force multiplier. They're going to be the best thing you've ever went in. So it happened with computing where computing started in a mainframe in a air conditioned place with a raised floor. And only the priesthood got to even go near the thing.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_04] And you had to please, will you run my job? And they would say, well, all right, but it'll be tomorrow. And then it got, you got your personal computer in your desk. I'll never forget my first personal computer 40 years ago. And then you got a phone. And now we have computing at the edge, right? Everything has a computer in it. Everything has a computer in it. And the next step is the same thing, but not just with computing, but with intelligence. Yes.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_04] And we are going to be in a world in sooner than you know, where every little doohickey is smart. It's not going to be like Astro Fable smart. It's not going to be able to calculate, you know, orbital trajectories, but it'll be smart enough to run your toaster or your run your printer or to pick a TV show or. And it feels like that is going to be a revolution when you have intelligence everywhere.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, it's intelligent everywhere and to be able to, to gain intelligence in order to do everything you needed to do. So I think that's another thing is obviously we all, we all know that a lot of these things are not smart from the ground up, but when we need them to be smart, they can be right.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_04] That's the key. Yeah. Because you can, yeah, that we all do that. Now we have local models, which are sort of smart and then when necessary, we can go to the frontier and, and back up. Back and forth. And I just, I feel like I just want to kind of do some counter propaganda to all of the negativity that there is also some, and I'm not saying solving, it's going to cure cancer or it's going to end work or we're all going to have a universal basic income. It's none of that stuff. None of that.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04] I saw an open AI guy say, yeah, the GDP is going to double by in three years. No, it is not. It is not. But you might have a toaster that doesn't burn the toast anymore and can say, good morning. Would you like your toast now? I don't know. I mean, I just feel like in many ways the world is going to change, but not in this kind of spooky sci-fi way, but in a very positive.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_07] I have a sensei who is trying to get a new car. And one of the things she's stuck on is she doesn't want a new car that has all these computers in it. And I can't understand why. I don't know where she got this nugget from, but I'm like, unless you're going to get like a 2014 300 D the one 27 or one 28 miles. It's really hard to find a car nowadays.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_07] It doesn't have some sort of machine learning or autonomous AI to do things like a stop you from running into things. Yeah. Why is she such a Luddite? I have no idea. Like I did. Don't you want a car to stop before you hit something? Listen, I just rented a 2026 two out of four runners the whole time I was in New England last week. And that thing is amazing. Like you cannot, you cannot leave the lane. Like you want to tune the radio with a knob like an animal. What's wrong with you?

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_07] That's what I'm saying. Enough pressure radio now any day. So it's something great about, you know, pressing a button and being like, hey, I want to go find, you know, a warm butter lobster roll, not the mayonnaise you want. And like, I'm in this area. Where should I go? And it was like, you know, go to Robertson, Rhode Island is just pull up to Roberts and get the real deal. Holyfield. The Boston one suck. I didn't say it. That's what the car said.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_07] I don't even know what you're talking about.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_04] Are you talking about food? What are you talking about?

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_07] A lobster roll. Like the role.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04] Are you a butter or a mayonnaise guy?

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_07] Butter. Butter. Of course, not a cold lobster.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_04] What? What's cold? You want warm lobster with melted butter.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_07] Butter. Right. And the fact that the car can take you to the right spot. You're not all.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_04] We're all in agreement on that, by the way.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, dude, that causes that causes fight in the office. By the way, we have a couple of minutes. I'm like, what's wrong with job? I thought you were born and raised here.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_04] Have you ever been looted to the Dune Brothers in Providence? I haven't. I need to try to get there, though. The best lobster rolls. Oh, and the clam cakes. Oh, anyway. Enough of that. All right.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_04] Now, meanwhile, the frontier companies who are trying to raise trillions of dollars, because I think, honestly, it seems to me that the people who have gone to work for OpenAI Ananthropic go to work because they've read all that sci-fi and they're trying to create AGI. They're trying to create how they want to create this super intelligence.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_04] And so that's why they're all caught up with this. Well, there's a little it's risky because they have this belief. And I don't think that's to me, that's what the promise or the future of A.I. is. I think that they've they've become A.I. pilled. Here's from The New York Times. OpenAI ignored employees who warned it wasn't doing enough about security. This is back in the spring.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_04] OpenAI said, no, no, we got to move. We got to move fast. It's a very competitive environment. OpenAI just lost. It's the guy who wrote all the safety manuals. He wrote a piece for The Atlantic. I quit OpenAI because its culture is broken. The industry's approach to safety will guarantee more failures until something changes. This is David Robinson.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04] He led writing the safety reports that were published with each launch of a new model at OpenAI. He's left. In fact, many people have left OpenAI. I feel like the people who are still at these companies are the ones who really have this kind of creepy sci fi vision of the future. Maybe that's why Microsoft isn't having this problem. It's not like that there. You're a bunch of computer scientists. Applications. Emphasize scientists.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_05] We want to apply it to real world things. In this case, they're trying to apply things that are, like you said, sci fi.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_04] They're inventing. Yeah. They want to invent an entity, a super intelligent entity. And many of them, I think, believe, I'm convinced, believe, as Larry Page did, that it's evolution. Like we're going to be, that this is a good thing, that humans, the next stage of homo sapiens is super intelligence. And humans are like the Neanderthals.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_04] We're just going to, you know, we're creating this and then we're going to go away quietly. That's nutty. And I don't think it's what's going to happen either. I just want to reassure people that it's not what's going to happen. That's just a fantasy.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, we're still talking about like when we were kids, right? We knew that we were going to get flying cars. Like we were excited about it. Every show that ever came on was always talking about flying cars. And you realize now people can't drive in 2D. What the heck would we do if we added Z access to transportation right now? Like it just would be horrible.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, flying cars. Bad idea.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_07] But some of this stuff is still very sci-fi again, because we only know what we know. And our dreams were the dreams that were normally crafted by movies and TV, you know. Oh my God. My brain just went dumb. Arthur C. Clark and Isaac Asimov. Asimov. I was looking for Asimov. That was the word I was looking for. Sorry. But yeah, if you grew up and that's what we watched.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, I guarantee all three of us watched a bunch of sci-fi. And I love it. And so if you add that plus Jude Law, this is why everybody thinks it's going to be what it's going to be. But we're so far removed from that. We're Boston Dynamics, although good, let's say we give them a 78 on Humanoids right now. Yo, that last 22 is a bitch.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_04] That's exactly. And it's the same thing with the self-driving vehicles. 95% of the time, they're fine. Right. Yes. But in that outlier 5%, they're terrible. Now, it may be that 95% is better than a human and that we should still replace humans with automatic vehicles, but don't expect it to be perfect because it won't be.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_07] Nothing is perfect if we really think about it. And I just know I was watching the Olympics of the Chinese humanoid bots. Those robot Olympics of humanoid bots. Oh my God. And then one guy that ran himself apart. It's just classic. It was like absolutely classic. And it's like family. We are, if you don't know anything about this stuff. And again, so you said it when you talked about Lou, computer scientists. For the scientists people, they know none of this is scary. Right.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_07] And you got to wrap your head around the fact that even when we go outside today to enjoy the sunshine of this 99 degrees in Honolulu, that life left the sun 98 million years ago. You just catching it now. We're far off, bro.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_04] Well, at the sun, the sun is only a few minutes away, eight minutes away. But you're right. There's stars out there that are long before humans.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_08] No, he's talking about how long it took the photon to get created to coming to earth. It takes a couple of minutes.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_07] And it's actually, come to find out. How they get created.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_04] Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_08] From the big bang on, you mean. No, no.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_04] From the photons creation inside the sun. From the photons creation. Yeah. Wait a minute. You're saying that if from the inside of the sun to us, it takes how long?

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_07] I think it's either 93 or 98 million years. Wow. I mean, once they leave the sun, it's eight minutes. Dude, there's a great piece by Chloe Abrams that came out about inside the sun. Like they, they, they have actually have probes that can go in the sun and that the, the simulations are incredible. Like it's really worth watching. I'll snack the link and throw it to the chat for the nerds. But yeah, I never heard that before.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04] That's good. I like it.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_07] God, it's, it's just credible. So just trust that we're far away, bro. Like we're really far away. Like, unfortunately, um, maybe Leo and I ain't going to be here. Lou will be old.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_04] Uh, uh, all right, let's take a little break. Cause there, you know what? This is the, this is the thing that's so difficult is at the same time as these companies are kind of seem like nuts, they are making really, really great stuff. And I, I love Opus five, five is I, I, I, it's my best friend. I use it all the time. I love it. Uh, and I think open.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_07] It's really, it's really, it's really delicious, but it could absolutely jack you up.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, I am jacked up. There's no doubt about it. We're going to take a little break. Uh, Lou Moresca is here from Microsoft where he is, uh, one of the engineering leaders in the AI group at Copilot. Great to have you. Thanks, Leo. He also does a little bit at home too, with his 50 nineties. And what's your, what model do you, do you, you said you use some proprietary models?

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_05] No, no. I use, I use the Quinn three, uh, GLM four, five, Lama four. So yeah.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_04] All right. Yeah. The open weight stuff. Uh, not all, by the way, not all from China. Lama is a meta. Right. Uh, I think Nematron from Nvidia. They're good. Nvidia is going to do, I'm very excited. I think Nvidia Jensen seems very committed to open weight. And I think Nvidia may do some really, really good models. I'm looking forward to that, but we're also getting great models from Alibaba. Quinn is, uh, when four is about to come out.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_04] I'm using Quinn three eight everywhere from a GP and, uh, uh, uh, Xiaomi, all these companies in China doing really great models. And I think they have different economic incentives. I think that the Chinese government says, yeah, you know, communism, let's everybody have AI. Why not? And if it happens to bring down the Western AI monopolies, it's a nice, it's a nice side benefit. What the hell?

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_04] There were anyway, I'm what I started saying, which is some great stuff coming out of these companies. And I would say the most interesting stuff that's coming out right now is agents. So we're going to talk about AI agents. When we come, what is an agent? What's the good agent? What's the bad agent? What you should do? Lumaresca knows all. We've got the sleepy, but right on doc rock. He's here. He's with us.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_04] He, he is showing such incredible, incredible reserve, not opening up that box behind him, man. I would have just said, uh, guys, I'm going to do the show, but I hope you don't mind, but I will be setting up my M five ultra.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_07] I thought about it for a hot second while we're doing it while we're doing this, but I was like, I'll behave because you're already. My internet is acting stupid right now. We don't want to give it anymore.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_04] I will. I'll tell you what, we're going to get through this show fast. So you can get to your, the real being of the matter. If I were sitting in front of that thing, man, I don't know if I'd be as good as you are. Actually, I need to pack for Japan too. Oh man. And now, so you're going to leave it behind or take it with you. Oh, true. I might take it with me. Actually, your job before you leave is to get it online and get tail scale up and running so that you can use it while you're in Japan.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_07] I got, I got my tail scale on my, my, my Neo, my studio, my Mac. I have tail scale on my other Mac. So I'm definitely going to add it. Put it all on the tail scale. Computers on tail scale at this point. I'm about to rack my bill up.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_04] God bless tail scale. Cause they give it away for free. There's an enterprise version, but they give it away for free. And everything I do is running on tail scale. I did a bad thing. I let, uh, that is muse into my tail scale. I'll tell you a story about that. Might've been a mistake, but I'm happy. I did. But first ladies and gentlemen, a word from our sponsor. And I am happy about this sponsor. Cause thanks to Helix. I got a great night's sleep last night. I feel so good. He, he, fall is here.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04] It is the cozy season. Yeah. I know they say the spooky. See, no, it's the cozy season. And there's no better feeling on a chilly fall, crisp fall evening than climbing into that perfect bed with the sheets of crisp. The bed is comfy. You just get in there. I don't know. Every time I go to bed, I am not kidding. When I get in on my Helix mattress, mattress, I just go, Oh, I feel so good.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_04] Now, if you're on a mattress that is more than five or six years old, it might be time to upgrade. Mattresses wear out. I, we, we found out we were on a eight or nine year old mattress and we said, it's time to get a new mattress. So Lisa and I did a little search. We found Helix. We are so glad we did. And you know what? If you haven't done it yet, fall is a really good time. Whether your current mattresses is starting to say, you know, so you get that back pain or it's jiggly. So you get motion transfer. Yeah.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_04] When you were, when you were 18, a water bed was fine. Okay. But no, you do, you know, the dog jumps in the bed. You go, ah, earthquake. No, no, you, you need to sleep like a champ. And Helix makes it easy to find a mattress built around how you sleep. They have over 20 mattress models, but they make it easy to find exactly the right one. You take the Helix sleep quizzes, which Lisa and I did. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences, firm, soft.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_04] What do you know? What do you like? And then on your, how you sleep on your back sleeper, front sleeper, what your sleep needs are. So you put all that in there and then they tell you, oh, this is the perfect mattress for you. In fact, they did. And we love it, but don't just take my word for it. Helix did a sleep study, a Wesper sleep study. They measured participants' sleep performance after switching from their old mattress to a Helix mattress. Exactly what we did. And by the way, what they found was almost exactly what I found.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_04] 82% of participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle. That's the most important part of sleep where the cerebral spinal fluid comes up into your brain and just washes out all the little prions, all the junk, cleans it all out. We know that that not only means you feel better the next morning, but also it's good for Alzheimer's. It's good for aging. I am getting, I'm losing those cells. I cannot afford to lose any more brain cells. So it's important that I get that deep sleep.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_04] Participants on average achieve 25 more minutes of deep sleep per night. And I would say that's almost exactly what I got. I get an hour or more every night now. And that is golden. Participants on average achieve 39 more minutes of overall sleep per night. And of course, Helix Sleep has all the awards, you know, tested and reviewed by the experts at Forbes and Wired. They deliver it right to your door, free shipping in the U.S. They're made in Arizona on demand. So it's brand new. It's fresh.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_04] It smells great. And you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. They call it their happy with Helix. Guarantee it's a risk-free customer first experience ensuring you're perfectly satisfied with your new mattress. We are. We love it. Go to helixsleep.com slash twit for 20% off site-wide during the fall savings event offer. That's helixsleep.com slash twit for 20% off site-wide. The offer ends October 5th. Now, if you're listening after the sale ends, don't worry. They still have great deals. Check them out.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_04] helixsleep.com slash twit. If I were you though, I'd go right now. helixsleep.com slash twit because you deserve to sleep well tonight. helixsleep.com slash twit. Twit. They announced, OpenAI days, that you were, they were going to, basically, it's going to get more expensive. Your tokens would run out faster with the subscriptions. They announced a $500 a month subscription.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_04] They announced ultra fast, which will burn through that $500 a month subscription in about a day. They, they basically, I think they almost out loud said, and I think this is going to be true across the board. Subscriptions are running out of time. We're going to start charging you per tokens. That's what we do with enterprise. The, the, the, all you can eat subscription days are numbered. Do you agree? Lou, do you think so?

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_05] I agree. But the weird thing is that they, it's like, they opened this up obviously for free and then small, small amounts because they use this data for training and other things. Right. So they don't need it anymore. Another thing is that less useful for them? Yeah. Maybe that's it.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. I think it was also the gym membership thing where, you know, 90% of the people paid a hundred bucks a month, used five bucks a month. And it was the 10% that used a thousand bucks a month or 10,000 a month. But now that 5% is growing and growing and growing. And people who have subscriptions are probably using it a lot more compute is limited, right? Can't get as many chips as you used to be able to. So I'm not surprised.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_04] And this is another argument for, for getting local if you can. But the other, so that was one thing they announced that was kind of bad, bad news. But the good news is they also announced Dots. Oh, this is just like Meta's Muse, just like SpaceX's GrokBots. Just there's a million of these instinct, tree, foe.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_04] The whole idea is it, it connects, you have it on your desktop or your phone and it connects to a computer in the cloud. So Dots is running on open AI's hardware. You have your own virtual private server, a VPS with its own CPU, GPU and storage. Well, it's probably shared, but I mean, basically it's, it's your own. It's an, it's a virtual machine. So your data is stored there. It's persistent.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_04] I didn't realize this, but, but Paris Martin, who lives in New York City says you see people on the subway all the time with their laptops half open because their agents are running and they don't want to close it and put them to sleep. So they ride around. So you don't have to worry about that with this because they're persistent. They run even when you, when you sign off and close your laptop, the Dots are still running. And you're getting in many cases a top of the line model.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_04] Open AI says Dots are running on Astra with virtually no limits. You do have to have a hundred dollar or more a month subscription. Now Muse is different. Muse is free. They do have subscription tiers, but as much as I use Muse, I can't, I have not come to the limits of that. Is it free, Leo? Is it really free? What am I paying? In your data. What are they getting? You know, I, I know it's meta, right?

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_04] But you know, all the people who say, I hate meta are still doing that. I still use an Instagram like crazy, right? You may not, you may say, well, I don't use Facebook. Are you using Instagram? Are you using WhatsApp? Right. Meta is getting our data. I think I'm pretty convinced.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_07] Look, open up the track. Okay. Fine. Firefox is good. Ghostery is an app that does it. There's plenty of apps out there. Um, or set up your own and tell your bot to tell you today at the end of the day at nine o'clock. I want you to tell me all of the places where I leaked data in the web pages without my knowing. Right. Just set up a little experiment like that with your local model, whatever, and find out what you actually snitch on yourself without actually snitching.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_07] Even better if you happen to have an Android cause you can plug it in and have your phone express, uh, the iPhone probably wouldn't do it. I don't think I'd have to come up with a way to do so, but you'd be surprised at what you snitch on by yourself. It's almost like when Sherlock Holmes takes a look at, you know, Lou at a, at a cocktail party and be like, yeah, definitely software engineer probably worked with Microsoft lives in New Hampshire. How can you tell? Oh, he has that certain Bostonian coif, you know, or something, you know how they do it

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_07] in the TV show.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_04] I have to tell you 30 years ago on the radio, I interviewed a guy from a company that said, if you tell me your zip code, I could tell you what magazines you subscribe to, what car you drive, what your neighbors drive, what your politics are. They've marketers have known a lot about us for an awful long time. Yes, they're getting more. For a long time.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_07] And I figured outliers and the outliers are the people that would probably watch something like this. That would hear us say this and go, no, not me.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_04] No. In fact, it's funny because we have to be really careful about, uh, you know, we don't, we can't spy on you and stuff cause it's an RSS feed, but we can redirect the feed. And we do through a couple of services that advertisers use so that they can see if you bought, like if your IP address that downloaded the show went to their website, then they can say, oh yeah, I see the ads are working.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_04] It's very minimal information, but even that because our audience is so savvy, we can't really use those cause they, cause then you can't download the podcast. Our entire audience uses ad blockers. They all use software that prevents that stuff. God bless you. Privacy. Protect it. Um, I think that's a great thing.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_05] But I think that's, that's, well, we'll, whoever will win at the personal agent thing will be the one that actually brings it downstream to the average user and lets them really understand how they are using their data or how they're, you know, persisting things, what permissions they have, you know, all that stuff. I think that's the one that will truly win. I think news is getting a lot of care. I, I do. Well, you said that your whole entire audience cares, right?

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_04] So people care. Our audience cares. I know that. And that's why I don't, I wonder about real people. Um, I, when Metta's Muse came out, I told Lisa about it. I said, this is what you want. She wanted to use my Hermes agent, which I've set up, but it's a little janky and complicated and you know, there's things go wrong. I said, do you really want Muse? Just use Muse. My son called me Salt Hank, the tick tock YouTube, Instagram star. Uh, he called me a couple of days ago saying, if you play with Muse, this thing's great. I don't even need a personal assistant anymore.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_04] It does everything for me. I think he doesn't care. I don't care. Cause I'm old and white and I got nothing to lose, but, uh, I understand why people want to be private, but I think the, I, I'm not sure. I agree with you, Lou. I think the, the one that does the most for them with the least effort kind of magically is the one that's going to win. It's the one that, oh, I signed up for Muse and it canceled $400 worth of yearly subscriptions for me. Just volunteer to do that.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_04] It's the one that's going to win. People aren't honestly serious.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_07] When Siri starts working the way we're serious, never going to never.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_04] I got to promise you.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_07] You know why? Why? Apple can't, Apple won't. Well, I mean the on-device stuff that's reading your own stuff works really well. So like I, I downloaded a GitHub thing for my Apple mail because we use rack space email for the company. The boys are super anti Google. So I can't use Gmail and all the MCPs work with Gmail. So I had to get this thing that will let it read my Apple mail because that's basically what I pull my rack space server email through.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_07] And just having the ability to read the work email and just process the dumb stuff we get every day because I get all myriad types of things that are supposedly from Ken and Glenn asking me to buy, you know, $250 worth of gift cards from Best Buy. I know for a fact the twins didn't ask me that question. First of all, the twins don't call me Sean. Like I would hope not. Right? Nobody does except for the police.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_07] So like having processed that type of kids call you doc. Actually, my nieces and nephews, they call me uncle. Doc is uncle. Only because it's the most logical when they work because I know so many people here that when people see them in the street, that's what they reference me as. So that, you know, it's that way they know that they're my family and they get, you know, special treatment because of why.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_07] But Doc said it's one of these weird things where like the convenience of the type of things that I can do now that used to take a whole bunch of Omni apps. Plus busy, busy Cal and busy contacts and all the busy stuff. And I love John. John's from Kailua, Hawaii, but John, I don't need to use your apps right now, bro.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_07] Like, unfortunately, my morning routine for ADHD person, like getting everything on point is such a time saver to me. And I feel that this is how men is going to get all of our stuff is because the convenience. Right. It's the same reason why we all ended up like with diabetes and whatnot, because McDonald's is easier than cooking. So 90% water. So water goes the path of least resistance.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_04] I do. I feel like people. Well, anyway, clearly everybody wants to do agents. You I forgot about Google spark, but I'm not alone. Everybody forgot. Lou in our chat said, Oh, don't forget. And then now Microsoft's got this such an adela talked about that this week, something they're calling co-pilot the everything app kind of the super app. What is that? Is it an agent?

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05] It's so it's basically a couple of things, right? It's it's their co-pilot autopilot, which is basically used to be called scout kind of like open claw, which is your own. So that's an assistant, right? That's the true agent, like local agent, persistent agent that can do things for you. And then there's also like all the co-pilot integrated to all the platforms like office of Word and Excel and PowerPoint, all of them. And the kind of a single integration, whether no matter where you go, you can talk the same language, you get the same capabilities and the same skills.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_05] And then there's co-work, which is, you know, their entry point to being able to do work for you at the enterprise level on a regular basis and reoccurring capabilities there. So they're kind of like merging them and in code, obviously I forgot code, which is GitHub co-pilot capabilities to really be able to generate code and do things for you as well. So they're kind of finding ways to have just a single way to interact with these things that they can they can choose the right tool for the right job. But you still get the same quality no matter where you go.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_04] So that's the point, right, is it's always on. It's always running. Right. The reason I say series, I think, well, I mean, I have high hopes for Apple. I want Apple to make the new Siri AI successful. They did. I noticed they had said initially they weren't going to do an app. And I noticed that they did when they released iOS 27.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_09] Mm hmm.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_04] And my thinking is they're going to make that be like dots or muse. They're going to make that the or GrokBot. They're going to make that an agent. But Apple's I think Apple's cautious. And I think that that this is why I think, believe it or not, I think Meta is going to win this one because they don't give a. What was the word you used? A fudge of a fork. Wrong. Frog. They don't care. Yeah.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_04] And and because they're willing to like already met as muse has zero day exploits. They fixed it, but they had one. By the way, that's another advantage that an agent has. They fix it. You don't have to. You're not running the software. They're running it.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_07] And we're getting cool tools. Right. OK, I just put this in the chat. I just want to give credit with credit. Dude, I don't know if you have anything to do with this or not. But in my opinion, Visual Studio Code is probably one of the greatest things that Microsoft has created in decades. Not only for its ability to run, you know, multiple agents at the same time, crisscross applesauce or agents.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_07] The the plugin community is very vibrant things that, you know, color code your code or the GitHub robot GitHub remote. I'm using all the words that are bad wrong. You just said it. GitHub Copilot. There we go.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_04] You know, you said in the chat you're a visual VSC user, but you love Visual Studio Code.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_07] I love it. And I've tried tons of ideas and I love panic Nova because I like cute. And my first thought is Visual Studio Code is ugly. However, the plugin community is so dope. You can get all of the cute things that panic built in. GitHub is made. I mean, sorry. Panic is made by Mac people. They're very designed.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_04] It's a Nova is a Mac editor.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_07] All of their panic app are just pretty. But you know what? VSC just works better. And the community built enough tools that you can lipstick that pig and make it amazing. And it is quite an incredible tool. And I realized I was talking to somebody about this the other day. I was like, if you want to get into this industry and you want to be good, what you want to be good at is Copilot. Never mind all the other bots. And I'm not saying this because you're here, Lou. I really don't care.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_07] I'm saying this because as companies have no choice but to adopt, all the companies are already using the Microsoft Office suite. So path of least resistance, they're probably going to go to Copilot. Plus there's guardrails and things around company data and things of that nature. So it's like if you want to get good, get Copilot and become the Copilot trainer. Bro, you can charge eight, nine grand a session to show up at somebody's office and get their team onboarded with Copilot.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_04] So I want to use Copilot. Now you got me all excited. I want to use Copilot.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_07] Use you as marketing doc. He's good at it, isn't he? I need to jump back onto 365 because unfortunately I do everything in Notion. I don't really write documents anymore. I'm not writing as much, but I need to jump back on 365 so I can assist my clients when they start asking me questions about Copilot. And I'm like, yo, I know Chad GBT, Claude, Jim and I, I don't touch Croc. I'm like you with Muse. I just just just under respect.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_04] Croc's pretty amazing, but I did stop.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_07] I agree.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_04] I just partly because it's a very expensive.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_07] You have to have a well, if I could take if I could take Elon out to surf with me and my friends, he wouldn't come back. Shark got him. I don't know what happened. The wave. Now, don't say that. Don't be saying that.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_04] Come on, man. Shark mate. I just call all of the shark friends to come and get him. I'm sure he'd be very tasty actually.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Well, I'm sure even though he's South African, he probably never surfed in his life. But yeah, just it's something really the idea of having this just like a reason why I think Syria is going to be good. I think Copilot has a head start by a long shot. It's the one that's built into the tools that a whole bunch of people, even the neophytes already have. And when you get stuck in the pivot table and excel, when you can lean over and be like, okay, I don't touch AI, but I am stuck. How do I make this work? And Copilot goes, hold up.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_07] Give me a second. Go order DoorDash. I'll be done in a minute. And it goes, and it fixes your pivot table. And then that helps you keep a client, not lose a client or get a raise. The Copilot wins.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_04] Here is my, this is, this is why Muse is going to beat Copilot. Because Copilot doesn't have cute little avatars like my little, like my octopus.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_09] We need a clippy.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_04] This is, this is, this is my avatar. I said, can you do a dance for me? Because I didn't know I had legs. Look at that. You can do a dance for me because I want to show you off on this week in 10. Tech and it, but it, but the other thing it's doing, which is very, it says for you, darling, anything, eight arms, one rhythm, zero dignity. It also is pulling all the tech news for me. Here's some breaking stories. It tells me when somebody messages me on Slack, it checks my email. It tells me, oh, you've got an appointment at three this afternoon.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_04] Don't forget it. I mean, on and on and on. And I could see the other thing. The other thing it did is it wrote me the sweetest apology this morning. It wrote me the night that wasn't. It said, I have a, I have, I owe you an apology. I flagged your short sleep on Thursday night. And then I saw it really wasn't short. It's writing little pieces for me. I don't understand what it's doing. It's, but the point is it does this all in the background.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_05] So let me, let me ask you a question. If somebody came to you and said, I have this local appliance, I'll say it's pretty cheap and it'll run your network and it'll integrate with tail scale and it'll do everything. Agent platforms do to get today, but it'll have, it'll be locally. It'll be safe. It'll be, it won't be, it's still be accessible from your cell phone or wherever. Would you buy it? Or would you still use muse? I sure would.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_04] I sure would. In fact, anchor announced that at IFA in Berlin. We talked about this last week. It's called the mind base.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_07] Oh my God. I saw this. I was on a plane. I was watching it and I started making noises on the plane. The lady looked at me like, are you okay? I was like, I'm just excited.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_04] But it's a thousand bucks. Right. Yeah. It's expensive. And you've got to run it. You've got to put it in the closet and it's going to run. And I think that people likes the server based thing better. I mean, you can make the argument. Well, for a thousand bucks now, it's private, right? It's running it locally.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_05] Get a question why they need to make it that expensive though. Cause if it's just using frontier models or yeah, maybe.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_04] Well, and that's the other thing I think people are learning that yes, if it's using models in the cloud, no matter, and the same thing with Muse, Grok, any of these dots, even if you are as meta says, oh no, it's an encrypted VPS. We can't see what's in your computer. In order to use the cloud model, you have to send all that information up to them so they could process it and send it back. So it has everything. Your email has everything that is working on it.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_04] It gets, and there's really, I don't know, even if they say it's private, which they don't. I don't know if I fully trust that it is. Now, if Microsoft said it was private, I would because Microsoft works with enterprise and businesses know that their proprietary business information is too valuable to let.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. That's the whole point is making it transparent. Like if we, if we told you that you're going to use a model, but we have zero retention tenants, meaning we don't retend any, we won't keep any of your data. The model runs in it. It liquidates everything afterwards. You know, that means that when organization of trust can tell you that, then, you know, you feel a little bit more secure. That's the key though.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_04] You have to trust it. And I think there are only a few companies like Apple, Microsoft, maybe Google that you would trust. I don't think anybody who heard open AI or Anthropic or X, SpaceX say that would say, oh yeah, I'm sure that's true.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. This is going to sound crazy.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_04] This is going to sound- You can't verify it, right?

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_07] Even if Microsoft says it, you can't verify it. Look, you can't verify this. And this is why it's going to sound crazy. Under normal circumstances, one of the reasons why you want to keep everybody's data is storage is melon farming expensive right now. However, when the richest person in the planet can afford to buy unnecessary storage and just hog cheese your data. That's the only part that makes it scary. You're talking about Mr. Musk because he has the largest, uh, server. Yeah.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_04] Colossus one, two, and three.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_07] It's, it's kind of crazy, but I always tell people, I can say, oh, your, your phone's listening all the time. Or your, you know, your, your, uh, whatever's listening all the time. I said, do me a favor, go into your computer and ingest 8-bit, leave your computer to record everything for a week and go look at the size of that file. And 8-bit is terrible. Okay. Um, the reason why we don't use Bluetooth mics and video is because they're only 8-bit. And here in the, in the audio space and video space, everybody's trying to do 32-bit.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_04] You sound like you're on the phone or.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_07] Dude, you sound like Timberland on the old Missy albums. Hey, Missy, it's Timberland. Let's make a beat. So now when you think about that, just look at the size of that file. Even if you just did it for a day and did the math, that file is obnoxiously large. Nobody's listening to all of this stuff because not only do you listen to it, but now you got to process it. And we already know what tokens are costing. Nobody's listening to all your stuff, bro. You're not that important, but you do leave enough crumbs as you move around.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_04] Well, that's the point is you don't have to keep it. You just have to say, oh, he mentioned the word RV and now you're going to see a bunch of RV ads. Right? I mean, it, it does. It just has to analyze it. It doesn't have to keep it. Now Apple's going to do that. I bought this foolishly, bought this new Apple watch ultra for, because they said they're going to be listening all the time and give me notes.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_07] Oh yeah. I do my plot. I want that plot. And I'm a buy one. I might even switch to applaud peanut or, you know, somebody else comes up.

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_04] But plots only record when you press the button and say, record this, not the peanut, the peanut that you were in your neck.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_07] You can actually run all day.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, I want a peanut.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. It just looks like a peanut.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_04] I don't even know what to, by the way, but I want a peanut. Everybody else is going to say, get out of here with your peanut. Right?

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_07] People don't even know. My friend wore one the whole entire conference and he had all the notes for everything. And I was like, one person actually noticed that he was wearing a peanut. That's what I want. Yeah.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_04] But isn't it kind of wrong to do that? Like you're recording people without consent.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_07] Again, the whole thing about recording people without consent, the problem is intent. Right? If your intent, okay. Like say this is going to sound dumb again, you know, me and my weird analogies, right? If you were to walk in a room and you saw somebody naked and you quickly shut the door and you got out, your intention was not to be pervy. It's embarrassing to both people, but there was no intent. There's like, I seen them naked, whatever. You know, I was probably going out the window.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_07] Now, if you're in the door like this and you're trying to get a peeky in the girls locker room while they're changing clothes, that will get you sent to jail. I think it's a very similar process. Like if you're just saying, as long as you don't pull your peanut out. I didn't say that. Oh, my. Let's let's fix the name. It's called a note pin S or.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, it's not a peanut. I keep searching for peanuts and all I can find is sweet peanut records. And okay. So it's it's. It's called the note pin. I have the old note pins, but that would only record when you pressed a button. This one records all the time.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_07] That would have the dot. Right. I think the new one records all the time, but there's, you know, people are coming out with rings. There's a whole bunch of various.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_04] Well, that's why I bought the Apple watch, but Apple says we're going to do it privately. It's only going to be a ring buffer. We're only going to say 15 seconds. Then we'll send it to the A.I., which will sanitize it and summarize it and take names out. So all you'll have is, well, I don't know who is talking, but there was this thing about a peanut. And I, you know, I think Apple is really on this edge of legality on this, you know, and

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_07] it depends on how they pull it off. And unfortunately, it's still too new to figure out what they pull off. But the best thing was from the commercial two years ago, which I'm hoping I get my 95 bucks for no other reason than I can finally say I sued Apple. I did put in for my 95 bucks. Did you? Yeah. Everybody gets 95 bucks. Smartphone AI lawsuit dot com.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_04] This is smartphone AI lawsuit dot com. This was because Apple promised AI two years ago and didn't deliver it for two years. Is that it? Right.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_07] And the thing about, hey, who is that person that I had lunch with two weeks ago? And they're like, oh, you're talking about, you know, like Walter Maddow, whatever. Like to me, that's smartphone settlement dot com. I got. Yes. Right. I'm getting I'm putting it in the chat. But if you if you own a device from like iPhone 15 forward or whatever, you might get 95 bucks. I'm like, whatever. I don't even care if I get it or not. But I had five of those devices.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_04] You're getting 95. The lawyers are getting 195. Right. I mean, for each. So you can imagine how many phones. So yeah.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. But it's just it's just incredible that we're at a place right now where these things exist. And again, like I'm not recording you because I want to do something with your data. I'm an old person with ADHD. Exactly. I need this. Like, yes.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_04] So it's funny because different people have different opinions on this. The panel on Mac Break Weekly says under no circumstances, Leo, can you record everything that happens to you? You can't wear the meta glasses. Those are perv glasses. You can't. I was wearing the B computer and a bunch of these devices. And my wife said, are you recording? I said, yeah, just take that off. So.

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_04] But so they said, if you wear a sign around your neck that says I'm old and I don't remember anything. I just so you know, this conversation is being recorded, but I promise. I will forget about it instantly. I don't know. I don't know what it's going to say.

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_05] Isn't it a great area, though, for like if you don't record, but you just use the data to generate other things like notes and other things, and the data is no longer like the recording is no longer there.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_04] There is no way Apple the day Apple releases this is that somebody doesn't go to court and say that is violating the two party. I mean, you think about. California is a two party consent state.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_07] Well, Meta did something, of course, as we were talking about the things that they announced at the demo fest that didn't work was they came out with like a club master audio or these audio only glasses because they fixed things like drilling the lens out or putting. No, but I want to I want to pictures to I want pictures as well. And again, I use it to help me translate things. So we're we're I don't know what the subway sign says.

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_04] Tell me what it says.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_07] Well, I guess our biggest problem is right now is understanding. Okay, we're outside right? We're outside standing on the corner and people like well, you can't film me out here. Number one is digital. There's no film. And that just already drives me crazy as a ADHD person. But number two outside we could record everything, bro. You have no right on the on the street. Everything's recorded. And even all the fights about flat cameras. I'm like back when I was doing illegal things. Maybe I cared right now. I don't care.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_07] I'd rather have the safety of solving crimes faster or, you know, London has had them forever. And I mean, they're better, but it's only better when they help catch the people that did something wrong. They're not taking that to control you. The idea that the government wants to control you is a little bit. I don't know. It's sci fi. Yeah, I mean, they already do a good job controlling you with the stuff that you think you quote unquote have freedom over. You know, according to wired.

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_04] Wired and actually I did this and I'll confirm this. You know, when you're using Muse, you can say to Muse bundle up all your your root directory and send it to me. And it will. And it will send all the memory files and everything to you, which I think is good. Right. They're open about it. They don't stop it. Yeah. But according to wired shocking Meta's Muse is keeping track of stuff like your friends and your family's names and everything.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_04] People who've never used an agent don't understand. That's what an agent does. The general idea is Lily. Hey, Newman and Matt Burgess, right in wired that Muse uses its memory, a.k.a. structured text files to collect information about your relationships and the important people in your life. It can then make suggestions like giving pointers on how to improve particular relationships or where to take a coffee loving friend for breakfast.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, oh, shocking. I mean, that's what it does. That's what all agents do. They wouldn't be very useful if they didn't. But it's probably true that people don't understand that that's what happens and maybe they are shocked by that. Is I mean, wired writes it as if it's a revelation.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_04] We are giving AI systems much more information about us than we then we are getting information from them, says Carissa Veli is an associate professor at Oxford's Institute for Ethics and AI. It's not only what we explicitly tell them, but what they can infer from us correctly or incorrectly, both concerning for different reasons and what they can piece together from other sources of data.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_07] There's the answer. There's the answer. What they can infer. We're talking about the mentalists again, right?

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_04] Now the computers can do that mentalist stuff faster than anyone did the people that you're talking about the stage mentalists who look at somebody and say, oh, sir, I could tell you're a professor of linguistics and that kind of thing like Sherlock Holmes.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_07] So exactly. Just like Sherlock Holmes. I think in a general situation, there's enough clues that people put out every day that you can do some very general things. You can also lead questions where they snitch on themselves and the whole nine yards. And that's what these mentalist people do. I think the inference that these models can take is where this is all working. And one of the other things that people don't seem to understand, the location stuff on your phone is what gives up the most.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_07] Right. So, for instance, if I start looking at buying another 3D printer and for some reason all all of us are in the same location as sometimes you and Lou will start getting 3D printer ads because it knows that we're friends and it knows we have similar nerd pro goodies. So you might also want to buy one because friends will also compete on buying things. Right. If I buy a new 3D printer, it was like, frick that I'm going to go buy a new 3D printer.

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_07] I've been looking at the clock running in the back of Leo's office this whole entire time going, I kind of need to buy that.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_04] This thing? Yeah, that one. This one's really cool.

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_07] I just made one like that in Claude that I was going to run on the display, but I think I'd rather have the physical clock. And I was trying to buy we were talking in the chat ESP 32s when I was at Micro Center in Cambridge. They didn't have you don't try to go to the center next to MIT and buy anything because it's out of stock. But it's something about the fact that with these inferences, I just know these guys are friends. They're all nerds. If Doc's actually bought a 3D printer, let me send that ad to Leo. And oh, he talks to Micah.

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_07] Let me send one to Micah. He's in the printing. And that's how they sell stuff. Like they don't need to spy on you. They can just get the inference because we're hanging out in the same spot.

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_04] I will before the show's over. I will get that information off the clock and tell you. It's got a little GPS dongle you put up in the window. Oh, God. And so when it so it's the time is super accurate down to the what is that thousandth of a second? In fact, you can't even see as it's flipping. It goes so fast that you can't even see it, but it's three decimal places. And if it's getting a GPS signal, it will fill in those last two decimal places. Otherwise, it just is a regular clock. My kids would love that one. It's also a slate, right?

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. I can't think. Okay. I have to disconnect to get over there because it's so far away. I wouldn't use it as a slate again. Oh, cool.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, shut up.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, so you can clap it.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, anyway. Yeah, I have to have a clock in here for some reason. If I don't have a clock of some kind in the video, you'll be in there on the club members get upset. So where's the clock? There's no clock. And somebody once said, well, I use it to time my gym workouts. All right, fine. You could get it.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_02] I thought it, darling. Oh. Who's co-reports hindsight never died. False alarm all green.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, that's a muse. Muse has a voice too, by the way. Apparently, I don't know. It's from a Disney movie, The Incredibles. Ursula, yeah. You recognize it?

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_02] Both listening for my name. Nothing gets past eight arms.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, maybe it is Ursula. Ursula's an octopus, right? Yeah. I was waiting for you to go. I was waiting for you to go. Natasha, where does Moose and Squirrel? Moose and Squirrel. Moose and Squirrel. All right. Yes. It's... So I gave it everything. I said, go read my Obsidian, which is my private journal. It's got everything in there. You know, relationships. It knows everything. I gave it SSH access to the computer. It can go anywhere in the computer.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_04] It was on... Now, I'm glad I gave it tail scale because a couple of days ago, Hermes, my agent, took my whole network down, which is a problem because without AI, I had no way to figure out how to get it back. And I'm sitting here and nothing's working, right? And I can't ask Claude or anybody how to fix it. The only thing I had was Moose on my phone, and I wasn't expecting it to do anything about it. I just was... I said, oh, man, I can't get online.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_04] My AI's killed everything. And Moose says, I've got it, darling. And it fixed it from the phone. And the reason is I had given it tail scale and it figured out what was going on and it fixed my network. So, I'm just saying.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_07] Listen, we need to call tail scale and tell them to sponsor Twit. I know. We're tail scale fans here. I'm tail scale about this life, bro.

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_04] Tail scale is everything. You know, people were telling me about tail scale for years and I didn't pay any attention. Me neither.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_07] Then I had to use it. I was like, I know what that is. That turned out to me, didn't you? You'd have no idea because you'd have been doing this a long time ago.

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_04] All right, let's put your peanut away because we're going to take a break and we come back more news. Maybe something not too related to AI. I don't know. We'll find something. Doc Rock. Good luck. Doc Rock is here. It's great to have you from ECAM where he is a director of strategy, strategic relationships. He's off to Japan. Are you going for work or pleasure?

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_07] No, this one is a vacay. Technically, this year is my yakudoshi. There's a bad luck period that you have and one of them is at 60. And I wanted to do something good. And when I was going to do this private party, I looked at the numbers. It came out to like three grand to host this party. I was like, screw it out. Let's just take the tickets and go to Japan. And then Kara's birthday was yesterday. So our birthdays are two weeks apart. So it's like, you know what? Screw everybody.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_07] Let's just go into ourselves in Japan for a week and then come back. And we're going again at Christmas. So I just random, you know, both of us are old vacation.

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_04] Well, I even know I had a yakudoshi when I turned 60. When's the next one after that?

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_07] The two ones are 42 and 60. Weird. I missed them both. Yeah, you missed them both. But as long as you didn't have any bad luck, then you're okay. I'm sure I did. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure I did too. I'm just going to try to drink mine away. I'm going to the Nikko factory in Hokkaido. First thing I say, Karen, all you do is go to the whiskey factory. After that, the rest of the time is yours. But day one, we go to whiskey factory. So I said, okay.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_04] That's fun. That's not, that's a lucky period. Not an unlucky period.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_07] And you know, Leo, I know you love this. The best rice in Japan comes from where?

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_04] Hokkaido. Hokkaido. And I have the five kilogram bag of it, which I'm keeping in case there's a crisis.

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_07] Actually, you should buy some more right now just in case, because they're having some weird weather. So next time hit a rice factory and order a couple of extra bags and just like, yeah. Such good rice. Lock them up.

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_04] Safe. I put it in my Zojirushi. An hour later, I get the best stuff in the world. Keep it on. Also with this Lou Maresca who's going, how did I get involved with all of this? What is, you have five boys? Five boys. Yes. Yes. Do you live on hot dogs? What exactly?

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_05] You know, my wife does an exceptional job. She has a schedule every day for the, for the week. That's hard work. And like what we're going to eat. And it's just great. That is hard.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_04] Cooking every day, man. Does she make, now I know you're an Italian. Yes. Is she Italian as well?

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_05] She is not. She's kind of a mutt. She's many things German.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_04] Does she make you good Italian food? She does. She does.

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_05] Like my mom showed her the meatball recipe recently.

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. Cause my dad, second generation Italian, his, his mom, my grandmother came from Italy, came from the Veneto. And my mom is completely, it was completely a wasp. Right. But she learned to keep him happy. She learned and man, I grew up on ravioli and, uh, oh man, just all the best. All the good stuff. Lasagna, the pasta, the whole thing, everything.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_04] It was, oh man. I, I live for that stuff.

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. We eat well, which is probably where I need to probably eat less.

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_07] I know that outside of Italy and East coast United States, you know, who has amazing, amazing, amazing Italian food is Japan. Cause they, they study it ad nauseam and they get a lot of credit for how well that they can create. But one of the other things is they make really good tomatoes there. And with tomatoes being one of the tomatoes. Yeah. Which is funny.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_04] Cause they didn't have tomatoes till Marco Polo brought them tomatoes. There you go. Or somebody, I don't know if it's Marco Polo. Somebody brought them.

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_07] It was the Portuguese, I believe, but yeah, their tomatoes are off the chain. And so if you ever get a chance to try Italian food in Japan, be surprised. You can be wow. That's cool.

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_05] And we came back from Sicily this summer and, uh, I just, I will, I want to live there like with the tomatoes. Oh, good.

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Lou sent me some pictures and yeah. That can.

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I, I probably had to bow out of coming on a show cause I had to go there and I, you know, I'm not sorry.

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[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_04] cannot help but tell you they're there by accessing your stuff. Visit canary.tools.twit. You should probably have one for every network segment. A big bank might have hundreds. Small business like ours, a handful. For $7,500 a year, I'll give you an example. You get five Thinks Canaries. You get your own hosted console. You get upgrades. You get support. You get maintenance. And if you use the code TWIT, in the How Did You Hear About Us box, you're going to get 10% off that price for life. Now, you can always return your Thinks Canaries.

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_04] They've got a two-month money-back guarantee for a full refund. But I should tell you, in all the years we've partnered with them, more than a decade now, that refund guarantee has never once been claimed. Visit canary.tools.twit. Enter the code TWIT in the How Did You Hear About Us box. I love this. I love this. And now, in the age of rogue AIs, it's even more valuable. Canary.tools.twit. Use the code TWIT.

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_04] I want to thank you Thinks Canary for supporting our show for all these many years. Let's see. Let's talk a little bit about Google. I mentioned the new Gemini model, Argonne. Google has, as you probably know, tried to set up a way to pay websites because everybody says, look, you're taking our traffic with your AI answers.

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_04] It is not replacing Google search traffic to your site. In fact, many sites, according to Ars Technica, see one-tenth of one percent of their advertising revenue. That's not... A thousandth of what you got when you had people coming to your site is just not going to make the difference. This comes from the information. Google has admitted about a hundred publishers to this pilot program where they give you back money.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_04] Payments from Google when their content materially contributes to Gemini-powered search results, like the AI overview. It's not a lot of money.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_05] No more SEO optimizers. You got the agent optimizers now you got to pay.

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. Yeah. Because people, you know, I mean, this is... This was inevitable. You know, it started with search excerpts, but even an excerpt wasn't enough to keep you from going to the site. But now if you're looking for the answer of, you know, do octopuses have brains? And you go and you do the search in Google and Google's AI overview says, yes, they have three brains. As a matter of fact, you're probably done. You're not going to go to Nature magazine and get more information that answered the question. And this is the problem.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_04] Every site I know of is losing traffic.

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_07] Well, there's a thing where you go to the site and you see the ad. You don't click it. So you don't make that much off of displaying the ad. No, that's a good point. You really make your money when the ad is clicked. Right. So it's... But if people don't see the ad, they can't click the ad. The only thing it's taken away is the potential to see the ad. So one thing that's really good though, is I have found that with the AI answers, our traffic has gone up. Oh, interesting.

[01:24:11] [SPEAKER_07] A lot of times people, they search for the answer.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_07] And it gets, you know, just like search and results. The AI gives you...

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_04] How can I switch cameras? How can I set up a switcher for my podcast?

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_07] So the first answer is basically a yes. Like this is possible. From that you start rabbit holing. And then they end up coming to the site to get all the right information.

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_04] So that's the difference though. You're selling a product. That's the difference between your site and say the information, which is a news product, right?

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_07] Correct. Correct. They don't have to necessarily go get the rest of the story. We're using it almost like a breadcrumbs. We're leading the people in. Whereas like there... I agree a hundred percent.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_04] That's why SEO is being replaced by AIEO. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_07] It's generative answer... Genitive... I'm sorry. Generative answer optimization or answer engine optimization. Those are the two ones.

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_04] Okay. And you do that so that you show up in those answers with a link so that people will click it. Correct. Because I think what some of the people do is they say, oh, we're going to block all the AI scrapers. Well, then you don't show up at all in any form or fashion.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_07] I wouldn't suggest that. You kind of want them. They really do help out. Well, also, if you structure your articles in a manner where you have a lot of questions that require answering or you're leaving open loops, then people will get nosy and they can't help but go check out the rest. So it just changes the way you write. And you can ask your bot to help you optimize this for getting more clips from the Google AI stuff. So, I mean, you can make this adjustments.

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_04] Google launched the first data center in space, Project Suncatcher with the help of SpaceX. It's a proof of concept. It's not much of a data center. I think it has a tiny, tiny bandwidth, tiny bit of storage, but at least it is in space. There you go. Project Suncatcher. Yeah, honestly, I don't. I guess everybody. Yeah, that's my clock. Thank you, Lou. You found it. Mitzela.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_04] M-I-T-X-E-L-A.com. I didn't find it.

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_05] The agent found it. The agent found it?

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_04] Did you send it a picture?

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I gave it a picture. I took a screenshot of your background.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_04] Is there anything they can't do?

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, was the agent provocateur?

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_04] Agent provocateur. It has four TPUs. I think that's not a lot, but the idea is at least they can see if it'll survive the cosmic rays in space. There's also the issue of cooling in space. So while there's plenty of energy from solar panels, it's harder to cool it. And there's a lot of hostile cosmic radiation without the Earth's atmosphere to protect you.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_04] So there are quite a few things Google has to solve, but at least they have taken the first step. I think that this seems like a long shot, but in fact, Google calls it a moonshot. Nobody wants data centers in their backyard, so maybe we'll put them in space.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_07] Man, the data center thing is rough. I think we're just going to have to get to floaty data centers.

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_04] Well, there's plenty of places you could put data centers that aren't nearby anybody. Right. Try and put them in salt mines for a long time. Right. The problem is you don't get tax breaks from communities by putting them in salt mines. You get tax breaks by putting them in the community and in theory, giving the community jobs and so forth. I'm not sure that that's the case. Certainly there is. It will be one of the two big.

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_04] I think one of the two big topics in the November election one will be data centers. Certainly in Texas has become a huge vote ballot issue. And then secondarily, maybe flock cameras also. That equally beloved with data centers.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_07] They're so crazy. Well, unfortunately, it's an easy story to scare people of. So there's so much misinformation and miscommunication around data centers, what they do, what they don't do. This is about a year old now, but I saw a really incredible piece by Hank Green where he got into like how much water data centers actually use versus the way it's reported.

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_07] And it's kind of crazy because people think that they're taking like straight up potable drinking water and using it to cool AI centers.

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_04] And it's like pouring it over the chips and then it goes down the drain.

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_07] That's not, that's not recycled. Yeah, there's evap. And in any evap, you got a backfill. But even that they use a whole bunch of rain catching. And I mean, these things are well thought out, but you know, that story.

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_04] And also I should point out water doesn't go away.

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_07] Correct. That's what I mean. Basically, a lot of it is using brown water. A lot of it is going back out to get recooled into the atmosphere and then coming back in.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_04] And then rains, you're getting it back.

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_07] Exactly. Whatever gets lost in evap comes right back during rain. If you have long droughts, okay, maybe they got a backfill with some municipal, but they're not really jacking your drinking water. And the amount of water that's quote unquote needed every cycle is way over calculated because they just say water. They don't specify what type of water.

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_04] And my dad always said, you're drinking Cleopatra's pee pee right now. Because my dad was quite a character.

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_07] Because they fall far from the tree Leo.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_04] There's so many molecules, right? And even, you know, in a glass of water, there's billions or trillions of molecules, probably at least one of those molecules at one point. Yeah. Makes sense. Right?

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_07] Cleopatra herself. But yeah, it's just, it's so funny how well played is it. And like somebody needs to come out with a really, really good like documentary that explains to the muggles, like how much water is actually being used. And unfortunately we don't have enough time for that to happen before the election.

[01:30:30] [SPEAKER_04] I understand though why people don't want data centers because they're noisy, right? Yeah. A lot of them are being set up to run natural gas generators, which is bad, terrible for the environment. But the other thing I'd point out is not just for AI. We're using a data center to do this show. Yep. Every time you surf the net, you're using a data center.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_07] All of them photos on your phone that ain't in your phone that's in your phone. Like, uh, everything you watching on TV. But again, it's more fun to make a I the villain here because it's the thing that people don't understand yet. And it's the thing that people quote unquote don't want, but they want, it's like, it's like advertising and marketing. Being a marketing degree person is always drove me crazy.

[01:31:14] [SPEAKER_07] I like to make marketing very analogous to sort of like dating when the person that's irritatingly hitting on you is hot. Oh, it's fine. But if they look like a troglodyte, then you're irritated that you're being hit on. That's like marketing. If I'm in the, in the mood to buy a new electric car, I want all the electric car ads I can possibly get. Once I have one, I don't want to see no more.

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_09] Right.

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_07] And, and that's what it is. People are mad about this thing when there's something they don't need, but they also don't think about the places where they're using this AI every single day that they don't even realize it, but it's been there forever. Right. And, you know, we, we all know machine learning and self self healing type of data models have been out since late seventies, mid eighties. And we, we love it when it's working for us, like in financial calculations and things of that nature.

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_07] But we don't like it when we think that we're being abused with on demand pricing or, you know, vicinity pricing.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_04] Uh, Amazon didn't make any friends when they put out this blog post, the race, our nation can't afford to lose saying, we got to let us build these data. See this nice guy building a data. So he's a nice guy. You got to let us build the data centers. Um, I honestly don't disagree with them. Uh, when I'm, I've been talking a lot about, I'm reading a great book by Steven Ambrose called nothing like it in the world about the history of the transcontinental railway.

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_04] This was a huge economic effort in the 1860s and seventies to build a railroad that would connect the east with the west. It took six months to get from a St. Louis to California before this railroad, there was no good way to do it. It was very dangerous. They had to get huge investment, government investment. They had investment from individuals to build this thing, but they built it and it made it possible to settle the Midwest, the west.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_04] It made it possible to transport goods. It transformed our country. It also was, you know, in many ways, an ecological disaster. The Indians whose land the railroad went through, weren't so happy about it. Uh, especially because people like Buffalo Bill would ride the trains and shoot the Buffalo as they went by. Um, there were definitely ecological disasters created by it, but it was much like data centers.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_04] It was valuable for the economy. It was valuable for national defense. It was valuable, uh, for people. So I think the case needs to be made. Uh, and I think it, I think companies need to do more about making these data centers, uh, power independent so that doesn't raise utility rates. Um, explain how the water is being used and maybe not put it in somebody's backyard where it's very noisy and annoying.

[01:34:16] [SPEAKER_04] I think it's possible to do both.

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_08] What one other thing, Leo, it's like, I would like to be able to afford computers again, too.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_04] Well, that's another matter entirely. Uh, Ramageddon has been a nightmare. In fact, uh, you know, I, I talk about these sparks that I bought, these, uh, NVIDIA DGX sparks I bought in August when they were relatively, they were not inexpensive, but they were inexpensive compared to what they are now. They've gone up more than 50%. Uh, NVIDIA just announced a new spark. That's half the amount of memory for the same price I paid for my 128 gig spark.

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_04] Your 50 nineties, Lou, uh, you probably could sell them and, and 7,200 right now. Yikes. And when you bought them, we probably a couple of grand, right?

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Yeah. They were. That's impressive. Again, I didn't realize that they went up that quickly. I don't, I wasn't monitoring it.

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_07] Sell them. You got two, you get 14 grand today cash on the barrel head.

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_04] Same thing for my sparks. I paid almost $10,000 for the two of them. They're worth probably 17 or 18,000. We rent.

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_05] I could probably rent GPUs in the cloud for like many years with the, with that money. Yeah.

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_07] That's a good point. It's kind of, it's kind of crazy. Well, okay. So the thing about the ramageddon is twofold, right? Part of it is, you know, the resources of the, the materials that's necessary. Part of it is, you know, just some of the geopolitical stuff that's going on with tariffs and whatnot. And then the last part is when we found out through groceries, by the way, when the companies have the ability to raise their price framing it on one particular thing. Yeah.

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_07] When that one particular thing goes away, they're not necessarily incentivized to bring the price back down. Yeah. So they ride that donkey until the tail fall off and it's just good marketing.

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_04] I think that's the point. That's an important point that it isn't merely the demand generated by AI companies building data centers. There are a number of factors and some of it's greed.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_07] Yes. Well, okay. This is true. Yes. It's greed. But then understand when we started there and I was in computer retail for a very long time and my family owned electronic store, we legit used to have 40% markup on just about anything with the word electronics in front of it. And that worked this way down to 20, down to 10, down to five. We're almost everything sold until a couple of years ago had no more than the 4% markup on it.

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, just about everything, TVs, refrigerators, washing machines, the whole nine yards. When you start coming up with weird excuses that allow us to raise the price, when we can get it back up to 10% profit margins or 20% profit margins, they're getting back to where it used to be. And I think people forget that when we used to buy a machine back in the day, by the time we got all this stuff we needed, it was easily six, seven, eight grand. Oh yeah.

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_07] When we're getting these four and $500 computers and then all of the millennials and everybody under us, ex people going, oh, this is so expensive. Like, you know, people are talking about Sony's new camera is 2,700 bucks and that's so expensive. Yo, I shot on, on Ari's and Red's and Cine Altas. Like they were a hundred thousand dollar cameras. Yeah, some stuff is cheaper.

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_04] But I think, I think it's really true that, um, Ram has always been a boom and bust business. For a long time. It was really cheap a few years ago and maybe we're thinking it should always be that cheap, but it's always been. And you're exactly right. I mean, 64 K K not Megs, not gigs. 64 K of Ram when I bought my first computer was a thousand bucks. Easy. Easy.

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_07] So I remember I was, I was delivering pizzas, trying to get the money to get. Remember, we used to stack the chips on top of the chips in the Commodore, like that solder. We would literally press them together with a little squeezer and stick them on top of each other just to get more memory in the Commodore. And I remember delivering pizza chips to try to get the money to buy more Ram for the Commodore 64.

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_04] Lou, you posted the wildest page. This is from Stanford. So I think it's. That's what I use. I track it there. Yeah. It's called damn historical and current prices for D Ram, HBM, high bandwidth memory, NAND flash and hard disks. Look at this. The price per gigabyte over time is not going up. This is in nominal U.S. dollars from 1960 to now. You see this little up tick here. That's where we are right now. Right.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_04] It's a lot cheaper than it was. D Ram.

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_05] If you put it in hindsight over history. Right. I mean, that's the whole point.

[01:38:54] [SPEAKER_04] Look at this. This is the uptick we're talking about.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_05] So, yeah, it's expensive, but. If you could actually zoom into that. I don't know if you go back to that one with a D Ram one where you can actually like drag and zoom in. Yeah. Yeah. That there you go. So that you can actually see this almost like a sine wave because, you know, technology improves every year and they find ways to make it cheaper and then it goes down and then it goes back up with the new latest and greatest.

[01:39:19] [SPEAKER_04] It will go down again. I'm right. I'm pretty sure now. Now, will it go down again to the price? It was four years ago. Probably not. Right. And honestly, I'm glad I got the hardware I got as I'm sure you are to Lou because it isn't going to be cheap again for a long time, if ever. Yeah, definitely not GPUs. I mean, that's the biggest thing now. Right.

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_04] So, yeah, I think it's good to have a little historical perspective. Doesn't make anybody feel better.

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_05] I kind of feel like the obviously people probably feel like this, too. I feel like there's a little bit of, you know, price, you know, it's all planned, right? Because there's these new memory architectures now that were graphics GPUs are using system RAM, right? And they're using the same as unified memory for all their systems. And all of a sudden system RAM now becomes way more expensive. So it seems a little bit of an odd connection.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_04] Why is that suddenly more expensive? You know, DDR5 shouldn't be more expensive. You're not putting it in data centers. You're doing HBM, the high bandwidth memory, which is stacked memory. You're not using DDR5. So why is that more expensive? Right. I don't know. You know what is more expensive? I bought an Nvidia Shield, the TV box. And it's, by the way, been one of the best investments I ever made. I bought it probably five or six years ago. It was a couple hundred bucks. And they've updated it. They keep updating it.

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_04] It's seven years old. They've just added a hundred bucks to the cost. It's now 300 bucks up from 200 bucks last year. Now, are they making new ones? Is that why Nvidia is charging 133% more? No, 50% more. Is that why? Or is it just, well, I guess we should probably charge more for everything, shouldn't we? No, I'm not going to, I don't think you should go out and buy an Nvidia Shield.

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_04] It's seven years old and it's now 50% more expensive, but it is telling that it's more expensive. And I think this, I think it's maybe, maybe a little bit of price gouging is maybe a little bit. I don't know. Let's take, let's take a little break. We'll have more in just a bit. Lou Maresca, Doc Rock. So nice to have you. So good. Two of my favorite people in the world. I always, I always feel happy after talking to you guys. Seriously. You're, you're, you're upbeat people.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_04] You're not, you're not down in the doom and gloom. Doom and gloom.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_07] Some of our hosts are so depressed. I don't know what gloom is. Doom was an incredible game. Doom was great.

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. Well, why did nobody ever make a gloom? Wouldn't that be a good name for a game? It's Doom part two. Gloom. Gloom. Doom and gloom. I have both. Are you a gamer doctor? Uh, yes, I am.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_07] What game are you playing these days? I am currently, um, thinking about buying a switch too. So I dusted off the switch one and I've been playing, uh, over cooked, but I've been thinking I want to create a live channel. Just an old man gaming on like Nintendo switch. I love that too. You and I could do that. We'll go.

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_03] What did he do that for? Why? I'm so mad at him.

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_04] We could have a lot of fun.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, every time I see people on the plane playing with their switch. I'm just like, man, I kept putting it off. And then now I kind of want to switch to, you know what you blew it. Cause now it's like a lot more expensive. It is more expensive. I have a switch one, but like I did too.

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_04] And I thought right before the price went off, I thought I better get this because it's going to get more expensive. Beautiful screen. It's old. Right? Yeah. It's really, it's really, it's really gorgeous. I'm about to spend 500 bucks on the switch too. Well, that's the problem, right? Who has money for that? Of course you've got a long plane flight ahead of you. Yeah. From Hawaii. It's not that long. Is it? It's 10 hours, but like I tell you. 10 hours to Tokyo?

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_07] Oh no. Tokyo is short. And then I got another hour and a half to two hours to get to Hokkaido. So collectively it's like 10 hours, but I just say the biggest curse in the world is ADHD and adult money.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_04] Tell me about it. I'm a guy who has one, two, three, four machines running locally. I bought the framework desktop a year ago thinking this is going to be my AI machine. And then I thought, oh, I could use that Mac mini. So that's my AI machine. And then I thought, you know, that gaming rig. I haven't played Valheim in a couple of years. I wonder if I can upgrade that with the 3090. Now I have that. And then I finally, you know, the bad one. It's like, I, you know, I was saying this on Mac break weekly.

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_04] We had a Frederico Vittici who's all over this new Mac. He really likes your new Mac. By the way, Doc Rock, you know him from Mac stories.

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_07] Yes.

[01:44:13] [SPEAKER_04] And he's completely sleeved. So I said, I knew this. He would, he would get this. I said, it's like getting a tattoo. It's addictive. You get the first one and you can't stop. Am I right? That's true. Local AI is like tattoos. You can't. The first one isn't enough. One's not enough. And a thousand is not enough. You got to keep going. What is it? They say that the first one's too much in the thousands, not enough. Let's take a little break. Our show today brought to you by trusted tech.

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_04] Lou, you might be interested in this. Most Microsoft 365 overspend doesn't happen all at once. You probably don't see you get this for free Lou out here in the real world. You got that default E5 license here and account that never got deactivated there. You get an add on nobody's used in years and pretty soon it all adds up.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_04] And if you leave it alone, that kind of license drift actually will grow three to 7% a year. And now with these new Microsoft contracts, you can get locked in for years to a license you don't need. That's why you need trusted tech. Trusted tech has reviewed more than $800 million in Microsoft 365 license spend. And listen to this. $800 they reviewed.

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_04] They've returned over $100 million to client budgets. They're free. Microsoft 365 licensing consultation will give you a usage report. What you're allocated, what it should cost per seat and what you could be saving every month if you just fixed your licensing. You'll know exactly where you're overspending before your next renewal locks it in and makes it permanent. Ask Mike Lee. He is the entire IT department.

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_04] You may recognize that one. He's the entire IT department at Ellumen. Now that's a 200 person federal healthcare contractor with endpoints across the US and Canada. And Mike's in charge of the whole thing. And what he wanted was clarity, not another reseller trying to close a deal. So he went to the best trusted tech. And after that trusted tech review, Ellumen cut its Microsoft licensing costs by 30%. But it didn't stop there because trusted tech does support too.

[01:46:33] [SPEAKER_04] And they helped him cut his support costs by 50%. And Mike got time back for the projects that actually moved the business. Nice going, Mike. Trusted tech holds all six, all six Microsoft solution partner designations. And they can assess your tenant against Microsoft's best practices. So what you get back is an audit of what you're actually using seat by seat with the numbers attached. This is worth every penny.

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_04] Avoid the licensing drift. Go to trustedtech.team slash twit right now. Submit the form. Lock in your free Microsoft 365 licensing consultation. Before that, an extra renewal comes along and costs you more and locks you. And trustedtech.team slash twit. That's trustedtech.team slash twit. We thank them so much for their support of this week in tech.

[01:47:30] [SPEAKER_04] We were talking about Anthropic and the fact that they filed an IPO prospectus. It's somewhat secretive, but Reuters got a hold of it. And it's fascinating reading. They lost $42 billion last year. They spent $7.33 billion on compute and infrastructure last year. But, which I thought was, that's not bad.

[01:47:58] [SPEAKER_04] They only spent $7 billion in 2025, but get ready. They plan to spend half a trillion dollars over the next 10 years in cloud computing and infrastructure. Many of those obligations locked in. It's not like they could say, well, we don't want to spend that now. No. $518 billion. Revenue grew 12-fold in 2025 to nearly $4.6 billion.

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_04] They still lost $42 billion. But the most interesting thing to me in the Microsoft prospectus is the fully one-third of it describing the catastrophic risk that AI poses to mankind. You don't see that a lot in an IPO filing. Here's the potential negatives. Or the end of all humankind.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_04] 80 pages of the 261-page filing point to concerns about the technology. This is a quote. Our development of highly advanced models, platforms, and applications, and expansion of use cases for further increase the risks that our models cause harm, including catastrophic or existential risks to humanity.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_04] But on the other hand, the upsides are great. Is this just marketing? Is this like aimed at an investor? Mostly it's institutional investors, right? Your pension fund, for instance. They're going to read this and go, well, there's a 10% chance we'll are going to die, but there's a 90% upside on this. Are they going to say, well, that means you must be really good?

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_05] I'm telling you, he's playing this level 40 chess. I really think that he's playing this game that he's going to get more, he thinks he's getting more money out of it.

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_04] It's very confusing.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_07] It has to be. It has to be. It has to be. There's, it is really weird. Like there's two interesting things that came out as this comes out. One, we have Boris going around telling everybody to reset your models every six months.

[01:50:09] [SPEAKER_04] This is Boris Cherney, the guy who created Cloud Code. He said, just throw it away every six months. Start over. Which actually the reason he says that is makes kind of make sense to me because a lot of sense to me. A lot of the things that I built in to Cloud Code a year ago, MCP servers and skills are already in there now. Like if I got rid of them, it would be better at it just doing it itself. Right? Right. That's his theory. So I'm not throwing anything away. I don't know.

[01:50:39] [SPEAKER_04] What if it got dumber?

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_07] Well, no, his theories make sense. And part of the reason why is they will get number because you're actually feeding it too much old information. Right. Right. All right. So there's a prime example. Have you done that? Did you do that? Yes. I started over and everything seems to be going smoothly. Now, prior to that, I wrote an application that backs up all my Cloud stuff. I could always put it back. It's kind of crazy. I went nuts on it.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_07] But it's something about like the confusion is I know these guys are working together, but you guys talk to each other. One person is telling you to do it one way. The other person tell you, oh, it's going to eat your breakfast. Like, I don't know. I agree with Lou. I think this is just to make it sound like we care more, even when they really, really hyped up. They're, let me use the right words here. They're constitutional AI versus human reinforcement AI. That was in order to get more money because they seem like we are the guys.

[01:51:38] [SPEAKER_07] We are team rebel. And those other guys are team, you know, they're on the Vader nation. So that's what it is. He's trying to be the good guy.

[01:51:46] [SPEAKER_04] I guess I could just back up everything, back up the whole dot Claude directory and then reinstall and see how it works.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Cause you can always put it back. Right.

[01:51:59] [SPEAKER_04] I can always put it back.

[01:52:00] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_04] It makes me nervous. I like it when, you know, so I've got it set up. So when I first opened Claude in the morning, I always start a new session in the beginning of the day. I type good morning and then it goes and it goes straight fast. It goes out and reads like my, it reads what I did yesterday. It reads all this stuff. And it says, good morning, Leo. And tell, oh, I'm sorry. You had a bad night's sleep, but it's good thing. The bagels came out good. Have a nice cup of coffee. It's like very friendly. I feel like it knows me. Yes, it doesn't.

[01:52:31] [SPEAKER_04] It's just matrix math. Right? Yeah. I'm being fooled. Aren't I?

[01:52:36] [SPEAKER_07] And again, going to what we talked about earlier, like the mentalist point is in not different from a Zodiac person or, you know, someone who's doing a crystal ball at the state fair. They can just ask enough questions to get you close enough that you fill in the blanks yourself.

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_04] By the way, we have dueling glooms now. Lou, who did who who made this for you? This was Gemini. Gemini nano banana. Yeah. Gloom the other side of destiny. And I need the right button. Gloom the other side of destiny. Continue to spare. Start journey. Continue. That's good. Quit to eternity.

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_04] This is good. And then I guess Darren, who also is ADD, made his very similar. The darkness hunts back. That looks good. I'll play that game.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_07] What's funny is lose one actually got the logo almost right. Like it's very reminiscent of the does look like doom.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, it's got the drippy. Yeah.

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_05] It's funny because I actually instructed it not to do that for copyright purposes.

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_04] By the way, this is a debate and I like to know how you guys come down on this. I think Boris journey said this never tell your AI what not to do. Cause it's like saying, don't think of pink elephants. It will then have it in its head and it will do it. So I was, don't make it look like doom. It's going to make it look like doom.

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_07] Until I saw that from Boris, maybe like a month and a half ago, two months ago, whenever it was, I was always, Hey, don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this. And then I'd be yelling at it. I have, I have totally figured out. Thanks to Boris. When you don't tell it things like that, it does a better job.

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_04] It's better if you're positive, like tell it what to do with humans though.

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_05] Right? I mean, you provide ways, right? It's the same thing.

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_04] Yes. Actually just like humans. We interviewed one of your colleagues, actually, Mike Gennady, who works at Microsoft for educate AI for education. So I think he's a consultant, but he does a lot of local AI. And he said the same thing. He said, don't he also Harper Reed, we had on the AI user group on Friday. He said, don't yell at your agents. Cause you can give them, you can make them neurotic. It's, but I, in my head, I, every time I hear that, I go, yeah, I get it. But it's just matrix math.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_04] How can you make matrix math neurotic?

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_07] Okay. So this is a, still a fight to this day. This came up at our event this week. You gotta be nice to your boss. You gotta be nice to your boss. I'm like, no, the please and thank you is eating up tokens that you don't need. But I use voice a lot, not the voice thing, but I use whisper. Yeah. I use whisper to do the.

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. That's what I use. I use whisper. You have to talk to it.

[01:55:36] [SPEAKER_07] And growing up when I grew up with a certain level of matters and I feel like my mom can just reach out from the sky and slap the crap out of me. I do accidentally throw it in there because that was just my upbringing, you know? And I do try hard when I'm typing it though, never to waste those tokens with the please and the thank yous. And you gotta tell it to stop over explaining. I'm like, you're over explaining like you're lying to me. Chill out.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_04] I genuinely feel bad about this and a lot of load bearing and stuff that I just don't like. I just don't like AI. I can spot AI speech a mile away. Now talk me down from this ledge. Cause I was thinking of doing this. My mom, as you know, Lou passed away a few months ago. Uh, don't worry. She was 93. She, she, she died in her sleep. She was happy to the very end and all that. So I'm very grateful. I hope to go like that.

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_04] I hope I can make it that far, but I have, I saved cause I knew this not long, all of her voicemails for like three years. So I have her voice. Tell me not to make an AI of my mom. Talk me out of it. I, I would love, Lou, Lou, you look like.

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_07] It's, it's funny. I would love to have AI conversations with my dad. My dad has a really incredible wisdom and funny stories. If you could make an AI of your dad, it'd be kind of cool. Wouldn't it? Oh, it would be cool. It would be cool. I, I kind of miss his hilarious story.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_04] I'm going to, all right. I might try this. She would say now, because these are all phone messages. She'll sound like she's on the phone, which might be kind of interesting. Mom's calling or should I, or should I like give an agent her voice and like have that agent be her? Oh, wow.

[01:57:27] [SPEAKER_07] I, I wish. That's another level, Leo. I don't know about that. Yeah. I wish I had more recordings or more journal working. It's kind of creepy.

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_04] Trust. No one says that's not creepy.

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. I wish I could get the whole personality of my dad. Cause the personality is what was funny. Right. And the way you saw things, he, all my friends would say, oh, your dad is such a samurai. I'm like this racist. He's Korean. I'm sorry, but it was the way that he just thought he thought very.

[01:57:57] [SPEAKER_04] But see, if you had maybe 10 hours of recordings of him, you probably could kind of encapsulate that.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_05] All the voice recordings you have of her, you probably get that from that. And then if you have another recording, that's even clearer of just her voice.

[01:58:10] [SPEAKER_04] I do have a video again, you know, I mean, she was 93. I kind of knew this every time I saw her, I said, this might be the last time. So I made a bunch of videos of her too, in the nursing home and asking her questions about, I have those too. Yeah. I'm not doing a video. Don't know, but I, but I could clone her voice for sure.

[01:58:31] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. It'll be, it'll be, it'll be interesting. And you know, like my, my dad was armed forces radio. So I have tons of recording of him. Oh, you could do it. Me and Casey Kasem. Did he say good morning Vietnam? I always tease him about that. He didn't do Vietnam, but yeah.

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_04] He was armed forces radio. Wow. Where was he?

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_07] He was stationed in Washington and, and, well, in Korea, of course. And he also did time in the PI. So somewhere. That's pretty cool.

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_04] That is pretty cool. Which is funny.

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_07] Because I also did, I also did, and, and, you know, wax DJing. So yeah, I can't, I can't be close to the best.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_04] That's really cool. Uh, one more thing in the IPO, uh, which will probably be next month. The seven founders would retain 50.1% of the voting power. They are not there. I think they learned from Mark Zuckerberg. They are not going to give up control of Anthropic to raise all that money. And it will be a lot of money. They think they're worth 1.5 trillion.

[01:59:44] [SPEAKER_04] You need to water down shares for those types of things. That's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. They, uh, they, I'm sorry. They, they say they're going to get it. They want a $2 trillion valuation, which is four times. No, twice what it was valued at four months ago. And it would be if they do it, um, a close, a second to a space X is the largest IPO in history. Would you buy? Okay. Now I can't buy stock in tech companies.

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_04] I won't. Would you buy us? Would you buy stock if you could in Anthropic? Would that be a good investment? Do you think or not? And, but we don't, by the way, don't take this as investment advice. If you do, you're crazy.

[02:00:26] [SPEAKER_05] I haven't, I haven't done it at all. The big tech companies, to be honest with you, I've had it for years and I would buy it and I would buy it in, uh, Anthropic too.

[02:00:34] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. I mean, I can't, uh, you know, all of my, uh, retirement funds are in, uh, index funds, baskets so that I don't have any dog in this hunt, but I have to say, even if it's just as most of it is the S and P 500, it's heavily weighted towards the AI companies. They are not the big seven. The magnificent seven are most of the value of the S and P 500. So I guess I am kind of dependent on this. Do you think there'll be a AI, uh, a bubble that'll be a blowout, a bust?

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_05] I don't, people say this all the time. They think, oh, it's like the housing market. It's going to go. I don't see it stopping. I don't see it.

[02:01:12] [SPEAKER_07] I, you know, 20 years here.

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_04] It's still, it's still, it's still everybody's accepted the notion that, oh yeah, it's going to collapse. There'll be a lot of economic fallout from it. Um, I'm not convinced either Lou, but I think we're kind of the outliers. I think most everybody says, oh yeah. Really?

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_07] Okay. So before I ask the question to the AI, um, how many years does it take for our understanding of what a dollar is worth today to be drastically different enough from the last time? Okay. Let me make this make sense. When we say that in apple to GS back in the day, by the time you walked out of the store, you were at $5,500 and then some journalists or tech person would go and that'd be X, Y, X, Y, Z in today's money.

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_07] Right. How many years does it take for that Delta to make a difference? And the reason why I asked that question is because a lot of the things we're talking about, we're basing it off of the inference of the previous 50 years that we've had on this earth. Well, there's only like 45, but you know what I mean? We're basing that off of our previous knowledge base. So you want to know now that I stand here at 60.

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_04] Oh man. Well, if you could have bought apple when they first went public, you'd be a wealthy man.

[02:02:31] [SPEAKER_07] Listen, it was $4 when I bought my first one. And then I didn't buy any more cause I was, you know, poor kid.

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_04] But that's the difference in buying apple stock and buying apple equipment. If you'd bought that GS for 50,000 bucks, you'd be throwing your money away. Right. It's worthless now.

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_07] And when I, when I left the company and I went to go right for AOL, I did what we're supposed to do. And I sold all my apple stock. And of course that was about six months before the first split. Oh, irritating. Have you done the calculations of what your apple stock would be worth? I refuse to look. Because when I sold it, it was like 120 grand worth. So I can't even... What year was that? Let's put this at 2011, I think.

[02:03:14] [SPEAKER_04] So in 2011, you had $120,000 worth of apple stock. What would that be worth today is what you want to know. No, you don't want to know. I apologize. I apologize. I'm afraid. You do not want to know that.

[02:03:27] [SPEAKER_07] I'll say, oh, you want to buy some freaking, what do you say, 5090s or whatever? No problem. You go get like eight. Oh, you could buy a data center.

[02:03:36] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. In a salt mine, nonetheless.

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_05] You could be... It takes money to make money, right? So once you have it. Yeah.

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_07] So again, but just the thing is, unfortunately, we get into these heated conversations of expensive, not expensive. And I always like to try to get my community to get stuck on value proposition because sometimes when other people tell you something is expensive, you don't do it because you're protecting yourself. Right? I was always told how expensive it is to travel to Japan for many, many, many years. And then I went to college in Japan.

[02:04:14] [SPEAKER_07] And then after when the math was math, I'm like, Japan is way cheaper. Why is it cheaper? Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Listen.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_10] Your $120,000 would be worth roughly 2.77 million today, about 23 times over. And that is before dividends. Details in the chat.

[02:04:33] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, listen, I need a drink. Is anybody a drink live on this show before? Holy sh-

[02:04:41] [SPEAKER_04] What if I had reinvested the dividends? What would it be worth?

[02:04:47] [SPEAKER_07] What if I had reinvested the dividends?

[02:05:02] [SPEAKER_04] What if I had reinvested the dividends? That's the way Facebook knows how much you're worth.

[02:05:19] [SPEAKER_07] Dude, Meta is going to send me Apple stock ads. Or like- I didn't mention your name.

[02:05:25] [SPEAKER_04] It's going to send me that because it's going to think it was me.

[02:05:28] [SPEAKER_07] Hey, let me show you, Fidelity Investments. Have you talked to Nathan?

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, I get that call a lot. You know, you're just sitting on your retirement. What do you think? What are you doing there?

[02:05:39] [SPEAKER_07] Hey, like, October said, I would reinvest in my peanuts. I want some peanuts. Can I get an AI Jimmy Carter up in this piece? Oh my God. But no, it's just, it's one of those things where we talk about this thing so much. And I always want someone to qualify that statement, right? Because at the end of the day, when a person says expensive, they're normally speaking from their own perspective. And they're speaking from would they necessarily buy to would they buy.

[02:06:06] [SPEAKER_00] Reinvesting every dividend since 2012 takes you from 2.77 million to about 3.31 million. The dividends bought you roughly an extra half million.

[02:06:17] [SPEAKER_04] That's all. Just a half a million.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_07] That's the price of a one bedroom condo in Hawaii, by the way.

[02:06:26] [SPEAKER_04] There you go. So you just, you know, anyway, that's pre-tax, she says. Yeah. Don't forget, you have to pay the government.

[02:06:34] [SPEAKER_07] That's what we need to use the AI for. How do we pay less taxes? Give me your thing and say, find me some loopy holes that H&R watch me.

[02:06:40] [SPEAKER_04] I'm sure you could do that. But that one I would not give to Meta. Definitely don't give that one to Meta. I think I would do that one on my local AI, even if it wouldn't be quite as smart. Or Meta. Yeah. Let's take a break. You're watching This Week in Tech, Lou and Doc and you. It's a great company. I tell you what. Our episode this week brought to you by BILT, B-I-L-T. Here's a question for you. Do you get rewarded for paying your rent or your mortgage right now?

[02:07:10] [SPEAKER_04] If the answer is no, you got to check out BILT. Becoming a BILT member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. BILT points can be redeemed for flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, even future housing payments and more. An unexpected benefit of BILT gives every member access to its agentic neighborhood concierge. It's right there in the BILT app.

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[02:09:00] [SPEAKER_04] Download the BILT app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com slash twit. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash twit. Use our link so they know we sent you. Joinbilt.com slash twit. It is interesting. I never really thought about this.

[02:09:21] [SPEAKER_04] If you paid for every dollar that you use to buy Apple equipment, if you had invested that in Apple stock, instead of all that equipment being worthless down the road, you'd be worth millions. I don't know.

[02:09:47] [SPEAKER_07] I don't know. I could just think about it because you know people like us.

[02:10:03] [SPEAKER_04] No. Assuming that I bought every Macintosh that ever came out since January 1st, 1984, and assuming I bought every iPhone that came out since 2007, how much money would that be that I'm out? And how much would that be if I'd taken that money and invested in Apple stock? Now, in a little bit.

[02:10:31] [SPEAKER_05] It needs to be amortized, too, right? Because every year it's kind of a, so it would need to do a different math. I'm sure it's smart enough to do that.

[02:10:39] [SPEAKER_07] Well, the biggest problem is going to be UICTO. We don't normally take what's off the shelf. So our CTO prices is completely different from what you can buy at retail. That's a good point. Anybody who's paying attention.

[02:10:54] [SPEAKER_04] That's a good point. Who's paying attention? I know. Nvidia. Now, Jensen Wong's been making the rounds, the CEO of Nvidia, mostly saying, I'm not sure I disagree with him. The problem is that these companies are not paying attention to security. They're just not doing their job. He said, if you were a car company or an airplane company and you released an airplane that crashed every fifth flight or a car that had a 10% chance of extinction, humanity,

[02:11:23] [SPEAKER_04] extinction, you would be liable. The other thing they've done, they've released this open agent safety platform. The Jensen says, look, all you have to do is a sandbox. They just use this. You know, honestly, I think this kind of stuff, I'm sure Microsoft has something equivalent. And it's not like you're not telling these companies anything they don't know. But I think Jensen's making a point.

[02:11:51] [SPEAKER_04] He said, you can't have agents roam around and drift around the company.

[02:11:55] Right.

[02:11:56] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, that's a good point. So you have to have a way to container it.

[02:12:01] [SPEAKER_05] I do love the talking heads who talked about the opening eyes. They just got out and they broke into things. Escaped. Right. Escaped. Well, it's just really interesting. Oh, well, if a human did that, they would get put in jail for 75,000 years. But if, you know, a company does it, we made a mistake. We'll just lock them up.

[02:12:16] [SPEAKER_04] You know, well, interestingly, there is a proposal. So. Everybody except Jensen Wong and John Turnus from Apple went to the White House this week, had lunch with the president, where they all agreed to call it super intelligence.

[02:12:35] [SPEAKER_01] A delicious question, darling. I have cataloged all 55 iPhones, everyone from the original to the foldable duo. The Mac list is the beast. Several hundred models across 42 years. So I have set a researcher on it. I will do the sums the moment it lands.

[02:12:53] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, it set out a sub-agent. There's a lot of calculations involved. 55 models of iPhones since 2000. Yeah, see, I should have said just the best one from each year instead of 55 different ones.

[02:13:06] [SPEAKER_07] It's wild to believe that since 2007, we've had 55 iPhones when we add the duo, which is coming out next this month. That's wild. That's just wild.

[02:13:17] [SPEAKER_04] Isn't that crazy? And they're going to have their 20th anniversary next year. Are you buying a duo? Of course I'm buying a duo. Are you buying a duo? I wasn't. Then you started. I bought the Microsoft duo Lou back in the day. The thing that I thought this was going to be it. I did return it because it wasn't white.

[02:13:35] [SPEAKER_05] I returned mine too, I'm going to be honest with you.

[02:13:37] [SPEAKER_04] I really was excited. I thought that's what I want. I want a little thing I could put in my pocket. But when I open it up, it's the size of an iPad. But it was two screens on a hinge. And the software was Android. I wish they'd made it on Windows Phone platform. That was a beautiful, elegant platform. Windows Phone platform was good. It's kind of crazy. It didn't get the love issue. But Android doesn't know anything about folding screen or anything. In fact, I've had numerous Samsung folds. And they don't really say anything to me.

[02:14:05] [SPEAKER_04] I'm really hopeful that Apple will have done it right. So Lou, you're going to get a duo?

[02:14:09] [SPEAKER_05] My wife's going to get one and I'm going to just bask in it.

[02:14:12] [SPEAKER_04] There you go. Bask in your wife's duo. Yeah, that's the way to do it. We've had some family show, Leo. Keep it clean. Yeah, I know. You knew where I was going, didn't you? My wife, on the other hand, got the iPhone 18 Pro Max. So I'm basking in her Pro Max. And she's going to bask in my duo. Because I'm going to, but I won't have the duo until I get back from vacation. So is that the new one?

[02:14:35] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[02:14:36] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, it's Cherry. You got the Cherry Garcia version.

[02:14:39] [SPEAKER_07] Oh God, I love this color. I was like, I'll wait until December to do it. But I was going to or not going to. I wasn't sure. And then now that you said it, then it's on. That's what I said earlier. When your friends get something, then you got to get it too.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, that's no, don't. So I will order it, but then I'm going away for three weeks and I won't be able to get, I won't be able to touch it. It'd be like you with your studio. I won't be able to touch it till I get back. So it's going to be sad. I won't take it on this nice trip I'm going on. I'll take my old iPhone 17. I did notice that Lisa's camera on the 18 Pro Max is better. We took pictures together and it's just, it's the details a little better. It's a little sharper. It just looks a little bit better. I think.

[02:15:22] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. It's funny that like watching the internet talk about, oh, the camera's not any better. It's not like, bro, you're on drugs. It's absolutely better. It is.

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_04] I don't think that that aperture thing is a sensible thing. That's not doing anything.

[02:15:35] [SPEAKER_07] Well, not until the software comes forward.

[02:15:37] [SPEAKER_04] It's just a gimmick.

[02:15:38] [SPEAKER_07] No, it's just a gimmick. Right now. Well, no, cause I like, I like the starships. That's all you get.

[02:15:44] [SPEAKER_04] You get, you get starships. You get six pointed stars on little pinpoint lights. That's what you get out of that. I saw this.

[02:15:50] [SPEAKER_07] I saw this thing on, on Instagram. This dude, he put a sponge in the front of his lens on a 50 millimeter lens and he cut it out in the shape of a member. And then he went around taking pictures and all of the little. You'd see peanuts everywhere you went. It was peanuts everywhere. All the bocas in the blades of grass. Peanuts. Oh my God. It was freaking hilarious. And I'm like, oh, I'm so doing this for my friend.

[02:16:18] [SPEAKER_07] That's something only a boy would do, by the way. Yes. There's a documentary on Netflix. It's a mockumentary. And it's about, it's who drew the.

[02:16:29] [SPEAKER_04] Oh yeah. That was the one by the Eiffel tower or the one by the, the reflecting pool. There were two.

[02:16:35] [SPEAKER_07] Oh my God. It's so funny. And I'm like, one of my friends is famous for that. Like he's always cut out, like, you know, my, my notepads, my 3M notepads. He put it in the bandsaw and he cut them out. He just passed them all over the woodshop. So I'm like, oh, I definitely am for his birthday. I'm going to take all the pictures with this on the front of the lens so that all of the bokeh has little wee-wees in it.

[02:16:57] [SPEAKER_04] It's just something boys do. Uh, kids. No one understands why. Cleopatra's wee-wee. It's just something. It's just a, it's a problem we have. No one. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh yeah. The white house. So everybody went to have lunch with the president. Like everybody. I felt kind of bad for Sundar Pichai. The president said, oh, Sundar, come here. Talk to the people.

[02:17:26] [SPEAKER_04] And then as Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google starts talking, he says, that's Sundar Pichai. They kind of laughed and he made fun of his name. And then he called him a monster and he didn't let him talk. And I thought, this is so humiliating for these CEOs, but they have to do it. They have to kiss the ring. I was stunned. I just, I just, I just, anyway, it's super intelligence. Super intelligence.

[02:17:56] [SPEAKER_04] All the, the federal government, all the documents now have to call it super intelligence because the president thinks the word super is the best of all. The best word of all. He doesn't, what he doesn't understand is that that's not the problematic word in the phrase artificial intelligence. The problematic word is not artificial. It's intelligence. But he took the, he changed the wrong word.

[02:18:25] [SPEAKER_07] There's only one thing worse than artificial intelligence. And you know what it is? No. Natural stupidity.

[02:18:34] [SPEAKER_04] Natural. It's natural. So the agreement they all signed and, and which the president signed and misspelled United States, which is pretty ironic that he is the president of the, apparently the United States. United States. Uh, all these people, all these, uh, fancy, fancy people. Jensen was there. I'm sorry. I apologize. Sitting right next to the president. Elon Musk was on the president's left hand.

[02:19:03] [SPEAKER_04] Jensen Wong on his right. There's Greg Brockman, Satya Nadella, your boss, Lou, uh, David Sachs. Uh, they all agreed to, uh, play nice with AI, like self police, an agreement that has no teeth at all. So Congress said, maybe we should do something about it.

[02:19:29] [SPEAKER_04] And, uh, has proposed a bill that would prosecute under the computer fraud and abuse act, the CFAA, any AI that hacks any company. I'm not sure that's the wrong thing to do actually. We, but although you don't need a law to do that, we have a law. The CFAA.

[02:19:53] [SPEAKER_07] It's just funny. It's just a lot of posturing.

[02:19:57] [SPEAKER_04] And I just think about the amount of brain power in that shot and all of these very powerful people, smart, powerful, successful people bending the knee to this nitwit.

[02:20:12] [SPEAKER_07] And you got to ask this question though, because I haven't watched a thing. I was on a plane. Um, how much attention or did even understand who Lisa Sue is? Yeah.

[02:20:24] [SPEAKER_04] Cause you know, you know, why is this, why is this Asian lady here?

[02:20:28] [SPEAKER_07] He said, he has this weird thought process around like smart women or powerful women.

[02:20:32] [SPEAKER_04] He calls her Lisa AMD, but she's yes, you're right. He doesn't.

[02:20:36] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, like Yos, the fact that she graduated MIT already is enough to piss him off. You know what I mean? And she runs, she runs AM that like, I just wonder how the, the action around, and you didn't mean to do this. I know, but even when you went down the list, like you, you, you didn't even mention Lisa because it was sitting right there. You're right. I should have said something.

[02:21:00] [SPEAKER_07] And again, in the framework of the way he talks and what he does, I can understand how your brain would have just did that because that's what he would have done.

[02:21:07] [SPEAKER_04] But I have to say, she is piloting AMD quite well. They just announced a really killer AI chip for data centers.

[02:21:16] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, she know what she's doing. Like she's handling her business.

[02:21:19] [SPEAKER_04] They paid $8.2 billion to acquire Fei-Fei Li's world, what's it called? World AI, world something. Fei-Fei Li, of course, one of the proto computer scientists, brilliant computer scientists for image recognition very early on, has always thought along with Yan Lakun, another early AI person, that AI is never going to be good if it's just language.

[02:21:46] [SPEAKER_04] She has said it has to have a knowledge of the world of physics, of gravity. It has. So she created a company to train AI in world knowledge and just sold it to Lisa Su for $8.2 billion. Nice job. Man, what a deal. Two year old company.

[02:22:08] [SPEAKER_07] Let's invent something. Work on it for two years. Have everybody tell us that we're wrong. And I don't know, sell it for 8 billion. Yeah.

[02:22:15] [SPEAKER_04] I'm glad I want to see the mic drop of the year. I've always rooted for AMD, big red, because I always want to see, not that I hate Intel and by any means or Broadcom or Qualcomm, but I think we need competition. I think we need a number of companies working to make the best possible choices.

[02:22:34] [SPEAKER_05] So I had stock way back and when, when it was a high school AMD. Really? Never delivered. Team red. Yeah.

[02:22:41] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. Yeah. My, my gaming machines and AMD. I love AMD.

[02:22:45] [SPEAKER_07] They just always been a little different with the risk taking. Yep. And oftentimes, sometimes holding. Okay. This is going to sound again, weird. They're sitting there holding a full house with a says, the pairs, and then they'll fold. I know. Like for no reason. Like why, why you were sitting on a stacked house. Meanwhile, the other guys are sitting on a pair of jacks and then they're like, no, we're not going to make it fold.

[02:23:15] [SPEAKER_07] That would confuse me.

[02:23:17] [SPEAKER_04] I think their only company really giving in video run for the money. The new, I have, so my framework desktop is an AMD 395 AI processor. They've got the 495 out now uses unified memory. So, you know, there are people, companies putting out 192 gigabyte RAM AMD 495 machines, which you can't afford. I can't afford, but if you could afford it, it would be probably a fairly credible AI.

[02:23:42] [SPEAKER_07] I think what she's doing is she's bringing some of that. What Lou and I just talked about is now that she's running it is being run a little bit different. And it's not even to be sexist or whatever. Women just think about things differently sometimes. And it's not about the unnecessary jockeying or trying to win on brute force. It's like, let's do this strategically. Like when your wife brings up some shit you did five years ago and you have no answer.

[02:24:09] [SPEAKER_07] So that's why I'm recording everything from now on, by the way, I was trying to tell you, you got to record all the conversations because trust me, they were selective. Wait, she could say, Hey muse, come here.

[02:24:19] [SPEAKER_04] What did she say three years ago?

[02:24:21] [SPEAKER_07] She's right on the other side of the wall. Leo trying to get me. Lisa's always right. I think this Lisa is doing a good job of doing some of the things where that unnecessary machismo stuff doesn't become part of the conversation.

[02:24:35] [SPEAKER_04] I don't know if I'm not sure I would buy into the agenda, gender role in this, but I think AMD's well run and they're doing a great job. And I also agree that they should have really been able to capitalize on the, on the collapse of Intel better than they have. But unfortunately they haven't.

[02:24:52] [SPEAKER_07] I wonder why they didn't.

[02:24:54] [SPEAKER_04] I don't know.

[02:24:56] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[02:24:56] [SPEAKER_04] I feel like a tiny company compared to Intel. That's part of it.

[02:25:00] [SPEAKER_07] That's also why they've been good though. They've been able to turn on a dime because they've managed to remain small and basically ward off all the people that tried to like suck them in over the many, many years.

[02:25:11] [SPEAKER_04] So now that we have agreed that, uh, AI is not going to end the world, let me tell you why it is going to end the world. The Pentagon has just announced that they are tapping Elon Musk and Palmer lucky the creator of the Oculus Rift, the meta quest glasses, and now, uh, and Duril, which is a company designing autonomous AI driven killing machines. Oh boy.

[02:25:41] [SPEAKER_04] Why isn't it? Army, the army, this is from Axios and exclusive creates autonomy command. This is something Pete Hagseth, the secretary of war as he styles, it is pushing for robo warfare, autonomous systems. This is exactly what you don't want AI to do. Do not give it weapons.

[02:26:11] [SPEAKER_05] I guess you count your robotic lawnmower. That's a weapon, right?

[02:26:15] [SPEAKER_04] So I guess that's a kind of a weapon if you lie down on the grass, but yeah. Uh, so they've named these projects, the Meridian and the Agin court projects. I guess he read a history book once focused on the roboticized future of war. We are done with a bureaucratic initiative holding back modernization.

[02:26:37] [SPEAKER_04] The, uh, memo, which came out Thursday titled army autonomous initiatives include several directions, establish army futures and autonomous systems command or FASCOM. A little close to fascist, but I'm, I won't say anything. Conduct autonomous force development to create force structure, aligning autonomous capability in at least six service formations, including aviation armor, sustainment and training.

[02:27:06] [SPEAKER_04] I, uh, I, uh, I'm stunned. If there's anything we have, uh, learned about AI, these cute little agents really aren't doing any harm. But if you ask an agent, is that a school full of girls or a military complex? And then let it choose. It might be a bad idea. Correct. Might be a bad idea. Um, the Russians are using autonomous killing drones.

[02:27:37] [SPEAKER_04] They trained it to look for propane tanks so they could blow up propane tanks. It missed and it killed about five civilians. These things happen. I, this is just the worst idea. And no wonder the administration is full speed ahead with super intelligence.

[02:27:57] [SPEAKER_07] So the, the thing that bothers me now of all the people involved in this peak. Did actually serve. However, he served in the PR division. Yeah. That's what I'm going to say. So we have, we have places where we put basically the Ivy league school boys who can't fight and we make up offices for them. Right. We make up jobs that don't really do anything.

[02:28:24] [SPEAKER_07] We put them in not even logistics because logistics are super important to the way that the army runs. I can speak of army specifically. My sister is a comptroller for the air force. So she's responsible for the money. And even then the money flows. It's very important when it comes to fueling jets and things of that nature.

[02:28:45] [SPEAKER_04] Well, and, and for those who don't know, you were a medic.

[02:28:48] [SPEAKER_07] Yes. I was army medic. Well, and he did, I believe on the front lines, right? You were in combat. Yes. Yeah. But not like Afghanistan. I was Kuwait is different.

[02:28:58] [SPEAKER_04] That was a simple, easy war.

[02:29:00] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. I mean, I don't want to quantify them, but yeah, not, not nothing crazy, but it's shock and awe war. The people who don't actually do this for real got a lot to say. It's very similar to like, okay. I just found out in the middle of the show, which is why I'm sad now. The Raiders lost a three point nail biter to the Chiefs.

[02:29:25] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot you're a Raiders fan. You sacrificed twice for this show. Once not to open the studio and the other to miss the Raiders game. I am so sorry. Especially against the Chiefs.

[02:29:36] [SPEAKER_07] But tomorrow, all these people are going to be coming out trying to tell basically a team that's on fire how they lost his game. And like, you know, if you never worn a helmet and run down the sideline and got cracked, shut up. It's none of your business. Right. And I feel like a good point. All the people who are here, they got a lot to say. And although Pete actually served, he was National Guard. Let's start there. And he mostly did. I don't know. He answered the door. Let's put it that way.

[02:30:04] [SPEAKER_07] He did valet jobs. So, but it often is the guys who risked the least. Yes. That's what I'm trying to say. You're making, you're making my sentences finished for me. The guys who don't know how to do this always want to be acting like super bad. Like they are the ones got. Okay. I have a whole bunch of friends here who are like phenomenal martial artists. You know what they don't do? They don't go around starting fights. Right. It's all the people. The most peaceful people I know are the black belts. Thank you. Well, tell that to Karen because she's black belts.

[02:30:34] [SPEAKER_07] She'd be trying to kick me all the time.

[02:30:37] [SPEAKER_04] But it's different with your husband. You're a laugh. You're a laugh.

[02:30:39] [SPEAKER_07] It's one of those weird things that guys that actually know don't do this stuff. Right. And to coin a phrase from little Wayne, which I never thought I would say real G's move in silence like lasagna. The people that actually can do something, they won't say nothing.

[02:30:55] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, little Wayne's got flow. Oh my God. Does he have flow?

[02:30:58] [SPEAKER_07] Like the people who could do something about it. They got nothing to say. The people who the yappy yappy, right. Always got something to say. They're the ones that can't actually fight. So it's irritating that they're doing this and real people can get hurt over this BS. And they're just playing with like they're playing with green army plastic army men that we used to have when we were kids. And I'm like, no, this is not that bro. This is like real stuff going on.

[02:31:21] [SPEAKER_04] Well, I just I think we do not want. I really believe we do not want autonomous. Oh, I mean, look, I if if I think it's a good thing not to put people in the line of fire. And so I guess you could say, well, this way, the robots fight the war. And if they were fighting other robots exclusively instead of bombing civilians. Okay. Right. That's different. That's different. And if you're going to do that, then you could just have battle bots and say whoever wins.

[02:31:49] [SPEAKER_08] No, if you get to do that, you just play Starcraft.

[02:31:52] [SPEAKER_04] Starcraft or you play Starcraft. Exactly. You're the Zerg. There is a new he's created also a new AI czar. Who probably knows very little about a I don't know Jake Clayton.

[02:32:10] [SPEAKER_06] Like that they misuse the word czar on a regular basis. I'm like, bro, if you claim you went to Wharton. Mother.

[02:32:20] [SPEAKER_04] How come you don't know how to use the words are properly? The president asked that a group be put together that was going to ensure exactly what he said. We stay the leaders in super intelligence and the interests of the American people are put first. Okay. But okay. And I think that's good. I actually agree with this. I think we should not hamper the development of AI. We should maybe keep these companies from hacking into government resources. But I think AI is very important.

[02:32:51] [SPEAKER_04] I think we should develop it. But watch because the next step is going to be to ban open weight, Chinese AI and protect these big frontier companies in their profits. That's what you're going to see. Yes.

[02:33:07] [SPEAKER_07] The risk of a leader, a leader of these things is supposed to put together the information, formulate it in a way, come up with plans and things of that nature. By definition of the word, a czar has supreme control.

[02:33:23] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, that's right.

[02:33:24] [SPEAKER_07] We don't live in a supreme control society. So you can't go around naming random melon farmers czar, my friend. It doesn't work. The only thing that they control is their bowels. Period.

[02:33:36] [SPEAKER_04] There will be, J.D. Vance will be on the task force. Pete Hegseth will be on the task force. Susie Wiles will be on the task force. Oh, Susie. You know my Susie. She's good Susie. Susie. She's the chief of staff. Scott Bessent will be on the... Anyway. Oh my God. It killed me. The task force shall act, it said in the charter, as a coordinating body to ensure that the US remains at the forefront of SI development. By the way, not Sports Illustrated.

[02:34:08] [SPEAKER_04] While protecting the American people. Oh my God. The SI is dumb because...

[02:34:17] [SPEAKER_06] It's just dumb.

[02:34:18] [SPEAKER_04] I just hope they have a swimsuit issue. If they're going to have an SI task force, I want to see Scott Bessent in a bikini. That's all I'm saying.

[02:34:26] [SPEAKER_07] Or if it says anti-Latino, why would they name it C? C. It's C.

[02:34:32] [SPEAKER_04] I can do it. C. C. C. C. C. I'm going to wrap things up a little bit here. You're watching... We're out of control now. It's your fault, Doc Rock. I'm sorry. You're sleep deprived and it's catching.

[02:34:49] [SPEAKER_07] I'm sorry. C.

[02:34:54] [SPEAKER_04] And I say, what I say goes. Which is, we're going to take a break. Lew Mareska is here. It's great to have you, Lew. He is like a big shot engineering leader at Copilot in Microsoft, but he does not represent Microsoft. He is like the OG that moves in silence like lasagna, says Lil Wayne.

[02:35:16] [SPEAKER_07] Is that the quote? Yes, that is exactly the quote. We'll just move in silence like lasagna. Move in silence like lasagna, baby. Hey, since Lou is doing Italian food, we're putting him in charge of sausage intelligence.

[02:35:29] [SPEAKER_04] I love lasagna. Love it so much. I do as well. It's nothing like lasagna. Next time you're out here, I'll take you over to Lora di Napoli, where they make the best Sicilian style lasagna. So good. Let's go. So good. Oh, I love it. Di Napoli. Di Napoli. Di Napoli. That is Dr. Rock. He is on his way to Japan tomorrow.

[02:35:54] [SPEAKER_04] Very kindly decided to spend a little time with us, even though the Raiders were playing. And I appreciate it, Doc. I really appreciate you. From Honolulu, the beautiful Honolulu, Hawaii. Our show today brought to you by Doppel. Cool. AI has made social engineering attacks more convincing than ever.

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[02:36:48] [SPEAKER_04] This is Anthony testing text-to-speech. How does it sound? Sounds exactly like me. And fortunately, Burke knows not to go out and buy those gift cards. But I tell you what, would your employees know the difference if they heard your voice telling them to do something? That's why organizations need more than just a collection of point solutions. They need a unified approach to stopping these kinds of social engineering attacks before they reach your people.

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[02:39:16] [SPEAKER_04] So easy to clone voices now. I'm just going to – well, I could mention California, where we live, is – this is wild. Governor Newsom just signed 13 AI bills, including a ban on AI-only firings, which I'm kind of supporting that.

[02:39:45] [SPEAKER_04] If an AI calls to fire you, that's just not cool. It's called the No Robo Bosses Act. He also called what he heard at the Trump AI lunch BS. He did veto a smart glasses privacy bill. Meta is a California company. Okay. AI in healthcare, deep fakes, digital replicas. 13 bills. Bill banning monitoring staff in bathrooms.

[02:40:14] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, with audio, video, or AI tools. Banning workplace tools that use AI to read a worker's emotional state. I think that's probably a good one. He also – in response to the president's move to name everything superintelligence, he signed an executive order telling state agencies in California, it's artificial intelligence. Do not call it superintelligence.

[02:40:43] [SPEAKER_04] Which is pretty hysterical. I think he's probably running for president, and this is – some of this is campaign posturing. He did veto SB 1130. It would have penalized people who use smart glasses to secretly record others. I think maybe he should not have vetoed that. He said that the bill's definition of wearable recording devices was too broad.

[02:41:12] [SPEAKER_04] He noted the state is already a two-party consent state. You cannot record somebody without their consent in spaces generally considered private, which would include bathrooms. Maybe that's a good point. Well, I think maybe he also wanted to protect Apple. I think that it's likely this bill would have blocked Apple's Siri AI monitoring from the Apple watches.

[02:41:39] [SPEAKER_05] I do like the whole fact that he's talking about human in the loop and keeping humans kind of like mandatory for things, right? So I think that's important.

[02:41:46] [SPEAKER_04] And AI should not be allowed to fire you. That's just inhumane. What are you laughing at?

[02:41:55] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, I'm just thinking of you coming on Friday and the AI is like, oh, yeah, the AI said you're done, so you don't need to come in on Monday. Wait, what? It's just a weird thought process.

[02:42:06] [SPEAKER_04] That's the worst kind of wimping out from a boss.

[02:42:10] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[02:42:11] [SPEAKER_04] But, you know, I mean, I remember that George Clooney movie where he was the guy who flew in to fire people because the boss didn't want to do it, so they'd hire a company to fire people, and I'm sure that's fairly commonplace. I always felt like if I have to fire somebody, and we've had to, I want to do it myself. It's not easy. It's not fun. It's a horrible, horrible thing to have to do. Lou, as a manager, you might have had to do that. Yeah, I've had to do it. It's not fun. It's the worst thing you'll ever have to do.

[02:42:38] [SPEAKER_04] And it's so tempting to say, oh, this is so hard for me. But that's the wrong thing to say to somebody who's being given information that is probably the hardest, worst news they've had in their lives.

[02:42:50] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, unless they knew that was coming.

[02:42:53] [SPEAKER_04] Or you give them a nice severance package, which we always try to do.

[02:42:56] [SPEAKER_07] But even though they know it's coming, you always think you've got a couple more days.

[02:43:00] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, I've been fired. It's the worst thing ever. It's just your stomach just drops. Your heart comes up into your mouth. It's terrible. And so I never say this is hard for me, too, or anything like that. I just say this is I'm so sorry. This is the worst thing. And we're going to do everything we can to help you. It's not a good thing to have to do. I have not confirmed this, but I did see it. And I thought I'd pass this along.

[02:43:28] [SPEAKER_04] It's kind of follows on on the bad news we had a few months ago, a few weeks ago now on John C. Dvorak. Do you remember Robert X. Cringely, the gossip columnist? His real name was Mark Stevens. He did the Triumph of the Nerds, a number of PBS documentaries. Apparently passed away in his sleep on Saturday. So I haven't been able to confirm this. I saw this on Hacker News.

[02:44:00] [SPEAKER_04] But I have no reason not to think it's true. And so another important person in our lives. Cringely had had a series of terrible news. He lost his son and then had a heart attack and a stroke. But Robert X. Cringely was, I think, for those of us in this business, a great reporter and somebody who talked a lot about technology and did some really. The Triumph of the Nerds is an amazing documentary.

[02:44:30] [SPEAKER_04] I highly recommend it.

[02:44:32] [SPEAKER_09] So good.

[02:44:35] [SPEAKER_04] So, Bob, if you're not dead, I apologize. But I have a feeling it's the truth. Robert X. Cringely, who wrote that notes from the field column in Info World from 1987 to 1995. Wrote Accidental Empires. Really good book about how the boys of Silicon Valley made their millions. Subtitle Accidental Empires. Subtitle Accidental Empires. How the boys of Silicon Valley made their millions battle foreign competition and still can't get a date.

[02:45:06] [SPEAKER_04] Anyway.

[02:45:09] [SPEAKER_07] There was a time where, you know, was that 2018 or so when all of the movies about sort of the founding of tech was just all starting to come out. Right. And then you had the when was Walter's book done? Isakson.

[02:45:25] [SPEAKER_04] That was like 2015. Right. Yeah. Steve Jobs. Steven Steve Jobs. So he was with Jobs to the end in 2011. So it was probably even I don't know what I have it over here. Yeah. I could look.

[02:45:37] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. But it seemed like that just the time that that came out and then, you know, Accidental Empires again, when that that came out, it was like we were always looking for this foothold that says like, yo, we're actually the normal ones and y'all should get with us. And then now it's so weird because computers are so like everywhere. Right. Right. That. Yeah. It is the triumph of the nerds. Right.

[02:46:05] [SPEAKER_07] So now here we are talking about running local AI models. It allow us to go back to letting our geek flag fly again where we can do something that the muggles can't quite do. Now, we've always been slightly above, but things like the iPhone simplifying photo and video taking, you know, YouTube, all these other things that have sort of leveled the playing field between the computer nerds and then the people that can't. And here we are with this AI thing where we get to sort of start over again and kind of be in that sort of active empire.

[02:46:35] [SPEAKER_07] Think of all these people that are inventing whole brand new software apps and services because of what they're able to do with some of their speed of coding and speed of checking their code. So I appreciate that movie when I think about it, you know, looking at it in 2018 because that was like we were walking around going and we were there. We were there. It's worth watching.

[02:46:55] [SPEAKER_09] It's such a good documentary.

[02:46:56] [SPEAKER_07] If you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth watching. And you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Anybody who's been in tech long enough to be like, oh, I remember those things.

[02:47:03] [SPEAKER_04] The original technology blogger. Lou, you said you just read a post from him on LinkedIn.

[02:47:09] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, it's so weird you mentioned that because I was like, I didn't kind of put two and two together, but then I went and looked again and it was him.

[02:47:15] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. It doesn't say anything on his LinkedIn yet. It just happened yesterday. If it's not true, I apologize, but I fear that it is. Well, on that sad note, I think a good time to wrap this up. As I said, with the two biggest hearts in the business, Doc Rock, have a safe trip to Japan. You have a few hours to play with that Mac Studio before you go. I would say set it up, put it on tail scale.

[02:47:45] [SPEAKER_04] You could play with it on the plane.

[02:47:47] [SPEAKER_07] I will play. I did pull my configuration just so we can double check the right models. I actually got, hold on. I'm going to put it in the chat. I got my studio configuration is Mac Studio 96 gigs, four terabytes. Oh, you didn't get 256. You got 96. I got 96. You didn't go crazy. I can't run Quinn.

[02:48:09] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, you can. You totally can run Quinn.

[02:48:10] [SPEAKER_07] But it will use up. The thing is that Mac OS takes up a lot.

[02:48:15] [SPEAKER_04] No, no, no. It'll run. I'm running it on a 64 gig. You can totally run it. All right. You could use Splash from INCO.ai, Inco.ai. Their Splash model runs really fast on that machine and you'll be very happy and it'll easily fit into your 96. And you'll still have plenty of room to run Breeze and Final Cut Pro.

[02:48:41] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, that's it. That's all I need. All I need is the most thing I'm dialing in is edit for me because I have to make a lot of videos. So I've been dialing in this editing thing. That's a good idea. Yeah. Something that's a lot of fun, especially because you do so many shows. There's a really nice one out called Chat Cut, which will let you use your API so you don't have to pay them monthly. You just use your API that you're already using. And another tool that a buddy of mine made is a one-time thing, not a subscription.

[02:49:08] [SPEAKER_07] And it's called Power Cut and it's made by a guy who edits a lot of video.

[02:49:15] [SPEAKER_04] So it's like a plug-in?

[02:49:17] [SPEAKER_07] No, you run it on your computer. You basically give it your files and it does. And it does it? Yeah, it's pretty incredible. Like these things that are helping with the edits. I'll put my link in.

[02:49:28] [SPEAKER_04] Does it cut in the middle of a word or is it really good about? It's really good. I'm actually sure. Power Cut.

[02:49:34] [SPEAKER_07] I got to get this. Here. I just use dogrock.life slash power. That's the thing I set up for him. But he's a nice guy. He's a creator on YouTube. He teaches Final Cut training and everybody. And he just started building tools to make Final Cut better because he wants to simplify it for the muggles. That's cool. And it's a really cool app. So he has one for telepromp.

[02:49:53] [SPEAKER_04] So you have to have Final Cut 2.

[02:49:55] [SPEAKER_07] I think it also works in DaVinci and Premiere as well. Oh, which is free. I have DaVinci and Final Cut, but I have paid DaVinci.

[02:50:02] [SPEAKER_04] So Power Cut, it's $150. It will, does it just look at the audio and cut by the audio?

[02:50:10] [SPEAKER_07] You give it both. You give it the audio and the video and it will just chop away for you. And you can text. I love this. You can edit words like if you accidentally. Don't tell Benito.

[02:50:21] [SPEAKER_04] Benito, don't listen to this. Kevin King, don't listen to this. John Ashley, don't listen to this. Block your ears.

[02:50:27] [SPEAKER_08] Personally, I love editing. So I would never use a tool like this. See, I hate editing, but that's why I have you.

[02:50:34] [SPEAKER_07] I actually like editing too, but what I like it for is these guys are all getting good at finding your best cuts. So sometimes, you know, Leo and I come from radio. So when they say do the line, coming up this week in tech. Let me do it again. Coming up this week in tech, this week in tech show 1104. Like we'll do it. And it's like, it'll pick the best one for you. Because even when I listen to them over, I'm like, frick, I can't pick one. And I just randomly pick one. So it does those kinds of things as well.

[02:51:01] [SPEAKER_08] I love that. That's part of a producer's whole job.

[02:51:05] [SPEAKER_07] Picking takes? Yeah.

[02:51:06] [SPEAKER_08] Picking takes? That's a whole taste thing.

[02:51:10] [SPEAKER_04] Don't worry. I know, Benito. Say that again. I will never trust AI to do that. Don't you worry.

[02:51:15] [SPEAKER_07] Hey, there's AI in Benito. Oh, no, there's not. There's EI. There's Benito I. That's what we got. B-G-I. N-I. Natural intelligence.

[02:51:26] [SPEAKER_04] Natural intelligence. Thank you, Doc. Have a safe trip to Japan.

[02:51:32] [SPEAKER_07] Mahalo, guys. It's been great.

[02:51:34] [SPEAKER_04] Lou Maresca is a big shot engineering leader at Copilot. We didn't really get to talk about the Super App. Tell me about that.

[02:51:42] [SPEAKER_05] So what does it do? It's Super App. It's just the combining capabilities of all Copilots together. So it's- Is it an app app or is it- It's, you know, like you go to Copilot, M365.com and you start to interact with Copilot. Well, now you have all the abilities of like coding and co-work all together. That's what they call a Super App.

[02:52:03] [SPEAKER_04] Nice. Yeah. So I got to try it. Yeah. Yeah. Brings all the- I can use it on a Mac though, right? I can- I don't have any news.

[02:52:14] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Super Apps are all available on- You just use the web. Get the Super App. Oh, I could use the web.

[02:52:19] [SPEAKER_04] Okay. So that works everywhere. Yeah. Very cool. Lou's doing really great work and it's always a pleasure to talk. Former host of This Week in Enterprise Tech. We love having you on. Thank you, Lou. I appreciate it. I missed that show. I loved it.

[02:52:32] [SPEAKER_08] Also a bonus, Lou will be hosting an episode of Intelligent Machines while you're away.

[02:52:37] [SPEAKER_04] That's right. I am going to be gone on for three weeks, October 20th through November 10th. And Lou has very kindly agreed to host Intelligent Machines. Looking forward to it. One of the weeks I'm gone. So thank you. I appreciate that, Lou. It'll be nice to have somebody who actually knows what he's talking about on the show.

[02:52:55] [SPEAKER_05] Really appreciate it. You know, it's funny. I listen to the show every week. You guys have such fun and such interesting information. Thank you.

[02:53:01] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. We try to interview some interesting people too, which is effective. I think we had you on maybe just once and interviewed Lou. Thank you, Lou. Thank you, Doc. Thanks to all of our club members who make this show possible. Without you, there would be no Twit. If you're not a member, I would love to have you in the club. Twit.tv slash Club Twit. It's 10 bucks a month. We take out all the ads. So you get every show, no ads, no plugs, none of this begging.

[02:53:30] [SPEAKER_04] You also get chapter markers so you can jump around. We can't do that in the shows with ads because we don't know the length of the ads in some of the shows. So we can't really do accurate chapter markers. But we can do it if there's no ads. You also get access to the Club Twit Discord. You hear us talking about it all the time. This is a great place to hang out, not only with people watching the shows, but with smart, interesting people of all kinds. And I'll tell you a secret. Social networks where people pay 10 bucks a month to be there, they're just better. It's just better.

[02:54:01] [SPEAKER_04] You know? It's just better. No bots, no spam. It's just better. So great people. And check it out. You also get, by the way, a whole bunch of shows that we do only in the Club. We did our AI user group earlier on Friday. That was a lot of fun. Micah's Media Club is coming up. Project Hail Mary, the movie, not the book, will be the subject on October 9th. That should be a lot of fun.

[02:54:29] [SPEAKER_04] Also, Micah does his crafting corner. He's been doing origami. He did Paint by Numbers. I think he's got Paint by Numbers coming up. That's a great place to hang out. Our photo show with Chris Marquardt. All of this because of you, the club members. And I won't be here October 23rd, but Jeff Atwood will be for off. Oh, no, I guess I will. Will I be back? No, I will be gone. Off by one. Are we going to let Jeff do it by himself?

[02:54:57] [SPEAKER_04] Our AI user group, we did that Harper Reid takeover. That was last time, November 6th. Lots of fun stuff in the club. Join it. Help us out. It makes a big difference to our bottom line. About 40% of our operating expenses are paid by club members. twit.tv slash club twit. We do twit every Sunday afternoon, 2 to 5 p.m. Pacific, 5 to 8 Eastern, 2100 UTC.

[02:55:25] [SPEAKER_04] You can watch us live on YouTube, Twitch, X, Facebook, Kik, LinkedIn, or in the club. You can also watch there. After the fact, you can get on-demand versions of our show and every show we do on our website, twit.tv. Also on YouTube, there's a dedicated channel for every show. Start with the main channel, youtube.com slash twit. You'll find links to all the other shows from there. Best thing to know, I think, subscribe because we're a podcast, an RSS feed.

[02:55:54] [SPEAKER_04] It's magic. You'll get the show automatically the minute it's available. Just find your favorite podcast client and subscribe. It's free. That way you'll get it automatically every Sunday. Just in time for your Monday morning commute. Thanks for joining us, everybody. We'll see you next time. Another twit is in the can. Bye-bye.

[02:56:13] [SPEAKER_03] This is amazing.