Billionaire Challenges Meta Over AI-Powered Scams

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Tech News Briefing.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Thursday, August 15th.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Zoe Thomas for The Wall Street Journal.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Demand for data-centered technicians is booming as more information is stored on the cloud.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll tell you about the people taking up these rules and why the positions can be so

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: attractive.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Then, an Australian billionaire is suing Facebook parent Meta.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: He's claiming the company's artificial intelligence-powered ad systems helped create and spread

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: scams using his likeness.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll tell you why this case could threaten tech immunity protections.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But first, companies like Microsoft and Google are pouring billions of dollars into data

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: centers to power everything from AI chatbots to the trillions of photos and emails stored

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: in the cloud.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's driving demand for data-centered technicians.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: They're part of a growing industry that offers six-figure salaries to workers without college

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: degrees.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Here to tell us more is our reporter, Tipeng Chen.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So what does a data-centered technician do?

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The tasks really can run the gamut at a basic level depending on what track you're

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: on.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You might be charged with doing things like swapping out components with servers, taking

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_04]: care of the racks.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_04]: On the other side, you also might work on monitoring and maintaining the heating and cooling systems.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And what's the salary range for these roles?

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_04]: If you look at the data, it's around a median of $75,000 a year.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It really can vary depending on the market and also with seniority.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But after a few years on the job, making six figures is absolutely something that is doable.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: If you look at the data on salaries for these kinds of roles, they've actually jumped about

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: 40% in the last three years.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_04]: All that data on pay is from CompTIA, which provides certification and training for workers

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: in that industry as well as other tech-adjacent ones.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: What kind of backgrounds are data-centered technicians coming from?

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_04]: There are a lot of ways that people find their way into these kinds of careers.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: One is, if you've already worked in IT, that's an easy pivot.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Some folk do come in from the skilled trades, folk who already have that handiness and

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: some of that technical know-how too and just working and manipulating some tools.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: There are also folks who come fresh from high school and programs at the community

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: college level, other kinds of certifications that can allow for a foot in the door.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And also plenty of high school grads who might come in and just get trained up too because

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_04]: there is a lot of demand for these workers.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And so in many cases, employers are willing and able to train folk up.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And where are these jobs mainly based?

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: There are absolutely hubs for these sorts of jobs in the US.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Northern Virginia would be one that really dominates.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: But unlike a lot of tech jobs, they are scattered around the country,

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: often in places that maybe aren't that populated, that have access to cheaper

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: electricity, that have a lower cost of living.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They really can be found in many communities across the US.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us about some of the people you spoke to who have taken up these jobs and how they got into it.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I spoke to one worker who came as actually a former post-stool service worker.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: He had been working for his local post office, frustrated,

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_04]: having trouble paying the bills, and found out about these kinds of jobs,

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_04]: made the pivot, got a certification, and now has a job working for Amazon that pays him very well

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and has completely changed his life.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I spoke to someone who had previously worked in an ice cream factory before becoming a

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: data technician for Google, which now pays him six figures.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_04]: There really is a spectrum, but one thing that a lot of the workers I spoke to said is that

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: these kinds of jobs, look, they can be very hard jobs.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_04]: You have to be able to work sometimes in windowless rooms for long periods of time.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You have to be maybe up and down a ladder a lot of the day swapping out components,

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_04]: but they do offer not only good pay, but also a lot of good advancement opportunity.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I was struck at the number of workers I spoke to who had just been on the job for a couple years

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and had already gotten one or maybe even two promotions in that time.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, that was our reporter to Peng Chen.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Coming up, scams on social media aren't new,

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but a lawsuit from an Australian mining executive claims Meta's AI ad tools have enabled scammers.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll explain after the break.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you wish your life came with a warning app?

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[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: A federal lawsuit against Facebook parent Meta could break through broad immunity

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: protections afforded to technology companies that host user-generated content.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Androforest, an Australian billionaire and mining executive,

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: alleges that Meta's AI-powered ad systems helped create and amplify false ads that use his likeness

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to promote fraudulent investment schemes.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Here to tell us more is our reporter, Alex Perry.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Alex, when did Forrest first approach Meta about this issue and what was the company's response?

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Around March of 2014, members of his private security team flagged these fake profiles

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: that were showing up on Facebook.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And that first point of contact was that year.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And when he reached out to Facebook, he says that their response was that

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: they told him to create an official profile.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Facebook told him to do that so they would have a real account to compare the fake ones

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: against and just to report the fake accounts against that.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He did that and the fake profiles kept coming.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Then in March 2019, he has a direct letter sent to a Facebook executive who is essentially

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: part of operations of Facebook within Australia.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's reaching out because his security team has flagged another issue,

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: which is these crypto scam ads that are using his likeness to draw in regular users.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And essentially the response that the executive gave him

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_03]: is that fake ads are not allowed and we'll look into it.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And he ends this letter saying that he'd be happy to open a direct line of communication

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: with Forrest. And it's unclear whether that direct line of communication was established,

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but according to Forrest, it wasn't effective.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You write in your story about a mission control style room that Forrest set up.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you describe that for us and what its purpose is?

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So Forrest calls this his cyber monitoring room.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's basically this room in an undisclosed location somewhere in Perth.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you think of NASA, for example, these movies where people are sitting in a room where

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_03]: they're giant monitors, they're scrolling through different platforms.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: He's hired cybersecurity experts to essentially man this room 24-7, scouring meta-platforms,

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: so Facebook, Instagram, for these scam ads and scam profiles.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And what he has them do is report each of them to Facebook.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So far, he's spent $10 million running the cyber monitoring team and he first built it in 2019.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_02]: How pervasive are scams like this on social media generally?

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So they're pretty common. Forrest isn't the only person to deal with this issue.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're thinking about some American financiers who've dealt with it,

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: there is Bill Ackman and Kathy Wood. They've both complained about having this issue

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_03]: in the past, especially with Facebook. And both of them have taken the first step that Forrest was

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: initially told to take, which is create the official profile. If you see a fake one,

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: just report it against that. But so far, none of them have sunk as much money as Forrest has

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: into this fight or even gotten as far in the legal system with it.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Fraudulent celebrity ads have proliferated on social media in recent years, but

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the platforms themselves are typically protected under something known as Section 230,

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: which roughly says the platforms aren't responsible for what their users post.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So what's different about Forrest's case?

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So what's different about this case is actually AI related, believe it or not.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Facebook quite recently launched these AI tools within their ad managers on Facebook

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that allow people who want to put ads on the platform to essentially give

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: the platform one copy of the ad and then it'll create 10, 20, 100 different versions of the ad.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And part of Forrest's complaint is actually that these AI tools within the ad manager

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: have enabled these scammers to scam more people or create mass fake ads at a rate or scale that

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: they hadn't before.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Last month, the federal judge rejected Meta's efforts to dismiss the suit.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: The company has appealed that decision. Has Meta commented further on this?

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: No, Meta hasn't responded to any requests for comment.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: What about Forrest and his lawyers? What have they said about the case?

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So Forrest and his lawyers are very optimistic about the case,

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: seeing that the judge in rejecting Meta's appeal is taking it seriously as a Section 230 case.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And the legal experts that you've spoken to, what have they said about Forrest's chances at winning?

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've talked to legal experts on pretty much both sides of it who think he has a chance

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: or some lawyers who think he has maybe not as good of a chance as his team thinks.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: What they have compared it to actually is this 2009 case that Google faced

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: where they were sued because of ads on their platform, essentially also scam ads or scam ring

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_03]: tones. And the judge in that case said that Google wasn't liable for that because they were

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: displaying the ads they weren't creating it. So the person suing Google had to establish

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Google's involvement in creating or developing the words used in the ads.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So that specific phrase there is essentially what Forrest team is trying to latch on to

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and prove that because Facebook's AI manager can take one ad and make 10 versions of it,

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: they have more of an involvement in quote unquote creating or developing the words

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: used in the ads more so than just taking an ad from a third party and publishing it.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So Alex, what comes next in this case between Forrest and Metta?

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Metta has actually filed an appeal right now, the next step in the case is simply having this

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: appeal heard on August 22nd.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, that was our reporter, Alex Perry.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang with

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: supervising producer Catherine Millsop. I'm Zoe Thomas for The Wall Street Journal.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be back this afternoon with TNB Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.