Robotaxis Are Having a Bumpy Rollout

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[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01] Welcome to Tech News Briefing. It's Tuesday, June 2nd. I'm Imani Moiz for The Wall Street Journal. Ever receive a spam text and feel tempted to mess with the person on the other end? It might feel satisfying, but cybersecurity experts say your clever comeback could make you a bigger target. We're getting into why trolling may actually be helping the scammers. Then, self-driving taxis were supposed to have a breakout year.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01] Instead, they're getting a crash course in public backlash. We're breaking down the resistance robotaxi operators are facing from the public, and what it could mean for the technology's timeline. But first, have you ever gotten a text about a delivery that you weren't expecting? Or an overdue toll that must be paid immediately? I know I have, and I don't even drive. As spam texts proliferate, some of the recipients have started to have a little fun with

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01] scam-baiting, responding with jokes, fake identities, or absurd stories to waste a scammer's time. But if you engage too much in the practice, the joke could end up being on you. Wall Street Journal contributor Heidi Mitchell joins to explain. So what do people like you or other people get out of scam-baiting? Why do you do it?

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_04] It's so frustrating. You get these texts all the time, and you're just inundated. And so I get a sense of satisfaction at kind of scamming them back. Like, taking that moment to make them feel like you're messing with the wrong person. I know what you're doing here. It somehow gives me some stupid sense of satisfaction.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01] They're winning in the end, though. Right. Because engaging can often help the scammer find out more about you. What kinds of details can scammers piece together from what feels like an innocent conversation?

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_04] So I spoke to a couple of experts, and they say, you really shouldn't be doing this. Because when you respond, first of all, you're confirming that that phone is live and that you will respond. That can then be sold on the dark web or be put on lists for other scammers. Also, you might be giving them information about where you live because of the time of day that you're responding is likely between 9 and 5.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_04] The joke you give might give away details that you're a parent or you have a child in some school nearby or you're going on a vacation. Just they're very good at teasing out little bits of information from anything that you give them. So you're really just giving them fodder. They can build a file on you. And over time, those little funny interactions can become a lot of information about you.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_01] You also spoke with a professional scambaiter who has helped bring down scam operations. How is that different from what the average person is doing when they're firing off a sarcastic text message?

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04] There's a whole subreddit community of scambaiters. This guy, who is known as Pierogi on YouTube, this is what he does for a living. He was a former cybersecurity expert. He uses a computer that's not connected to the internet. It's not connected to anything that's his. He uses a fake name. I don't know what his real name is. He obviously uses VPNs and burner phones. So there's no way for them to track him. So he is a professional.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_04] Don't try this at home, kids. It will not work for you. You will get burned.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01] So if you do get one of these text messages that claims to be from UPS or E-ZPass or the Department of Visa and MasterCard, which does not exist for anyone listening, even though I've gotten many calls from that alleged department, what is the safest way to verify whether it's legit?

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, it's very unsatisfying, but you really should just ignore it. So the experts I spoke to, they said, don't reply. Don't click on a link. Don't scan a QR code. Don't call the number of the visa protection services that they give you. If you get something that says you need to pay an extra fee for this UPS package, go online and call the number directly and speak to somebody or speak to their chat bot online. Don't click through what they gave you. Don't use the number that they gave you.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_04] A quick reminder is ignore block and report. So often on your phone, it has a report and block and then it should never come through again. That doesn't tell them that you're live. So that's a good thing to do. Or you can just delete it and pretend it never came through.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01] That was WSJ contributor Heidi Mitchell. How do you deal with spam texts? Have you ever engaged with scammers? If you're a listener on Spotify, share your experience in the comments. Coming up, across the country, robo taxis are hitting the roads and not everyone is on board. How communities are responding to driverless vehicles rolling through their neighborhoods. That's after the break.

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[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01] 2026 was supposed to be the year robo taxis went mainstream. Companies like Waymo, Tesla, and Amazon-backed Zoox are expanding autonomous ride services into more cities across the country. But as more driverless taxis hit the road, they're facing more criticism and scrutiny from the public. Wall Street Journal reporter Sean McClain joins us now to talk about the growing backlash amid the autonomous taxi expansion. So Sean, what are robo taxis doing that have communities up in arms?

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03] I think it's a number of things. If I were to say it's one thing, it has to do with reckless driving, maybe more so than accidents or crashes or anything else like that. It's things like driving down their quiet neighborhood street or blocking traffic or driving into a flooded road and getting stuck. You know, things that a human driver might not do and is maybe not illegal, but things that

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03] people are finding, you know, just generally weird, concerning, and possibly dangerous. It's not like an Uber driver who you could talk to or some other driver. There's nobody in the driver's seat, which is part of the concern for a lot of people.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01] Are there any incidents that stick out to you?

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_03] There's been a number of cases since the start of the year that I think have coalesced to draw attention to the way that robo taxis conduct themselves on the road. There was a case in January in Santa Monica, California, where a robo taxi was driving near an elementary school and a small child ran out from behind a line of cars during the school drop-off period, and the robo taxi collided with the child.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03] Low speed, the vehicle managed to brake and the child didn't have any serious injuries. But again, it's just any one of these incidents would be an eyebrow-raising moment and draw scrutiny from the public, the press, law enforcement, local officials. But I think there's been enough of these cases now where people are concerned.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01] The companies operating these taxis usually point to safety metrics that suggest that robo taxis are safer than cars that regular people are driving. But some people say those stats don't paint the whole picture. Can you tell us why that is?

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_03] Certainly all robo taxi companies, but Waymo in particular is a good example here. They have very in-depth, peer-reviewed research where they compare their vehicles to drivers in the same localities. And what their data shows is that there's an 80% to 90% reduction in injuries, collisions,

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_03] just to underline that vehicles driven by AI and guided by an array of sensors react in dangerous situations quicker and more safely than a human driver. And there's no indication that that's incorrect. However, what some folks who look at robo taxi safety at the academic level or through advocacy are saying that that's not the most complete view of safety and perhaps is an inappropriate

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03] way to look at safety. They should look at it more holistically and they should look at it from a standpoint of reckless driving. So for example, a robo taxi driving past a school bus that has been stopped and is dropping off children won't show up in any metrics about accidents that the robo taxi companies are measuring. However, I think most people on the road would agree that that's an example of reckless driving.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_03] And if a police officer saw you, that would be a point on your license. Ultimately, you keep doing it, you know, you would have your license revoked. So I think what these folks are asking for is to look at the issue of safety as more than did you crash or not?

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01] So beyond just pointing to stats, how are the companies behind robo taxis addressing the backlash? Are they taking any actions in response to these concerns?

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_03] Waymo in particular is taking a sort of case by case approach to this. And we're talking about Waymo a lot in this discussion. And let's be clear, that has a lot to do with the fact that 90%, maybe more of the autonomous vehicles on the road today are Waymos. You know, for example, Waymo has 570 vehicles on the road in Austin, whereas Tesla has around 40.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_03] Waymo's stance is that their ultimate goal is to reduce car crashes down to zero if possible. But at the same time, they do acknowledge that they have to earn the public's trust and that they have to work better with communities and with law enforcement and regulators to improve and evolve their relationship with that.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01] People often resist new technologies before eventually accepting them. After your reporting, do you think that this backlash is different or part of the same pattern?

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I don't know that we've ever, anybody alive today perhaps has been in a situation like this. I mean, maybe you can imagine a situation where the first horseless carriages trawled through the streets of New York, you know, spooking horses and annoying pedestrians who jaywalked before crosswalks were a thing. Like maybe that's the level of disruption that we should try to look at here. Look, I live in LA. I ride robo taxis all the time.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_03] And certainly when they first appeared, it was a novelty. And the longer that they are there, like the less of a unique experience they become and they become part of the landscapes. There's probably been few technologies in our lifetime that are so drastic. It's been 100 years of one thing and suddenly it's something drastically different. And maybe that means it'll take more time.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01] That was WSJ reporter Sean McClain. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. If you're a listener on Spotify, be sure to leave us a comment. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang with supervising producer Katie Ferguson. I'm Imani Moise for The Wall Street Journal. We'll be back later this morning with TNB Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.

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