Why Apple Pushed Back on Part of a Child Safety Bill

[00:00:00] Ecolab Water for Climate. Less water, more growth. Results will vary. Learn more at

[00:00:06] Ecolab.com slash EWC. Ecolab Water for Climate. Transforming the way the world

[00:00:12] thinks about water. Welcome to Tech News Briefing. It's Thursday, September 5th.

[00:00:22] I'm Zoe Thomas for The Wall Street Journal. Right now, artificial

[00:00:27] intelligence bots can answer questions and help you plan. But what can they actually

[00:00:32] do for you? In the future, these AI agents will be able to do just about anything

[00:00:38] you can do on your devices. We'll explain. And then a wave of states have

[00:00:44] proposed or passed legislation to regulate social media platforms with the

[00:00:49] goal of keeping kids safe online. But some app makers and digital safety

[00:00:54] advocates say smartphone makers and app stores also have a role to play here. Our

[00:00:59] reporter Jeff Horowitz is going to join us to explain what Apple did to push back

[00:01:04] on efforts for it to enforce age restrictions. But first, AI agents that

[00:01:13] book flights, order groceries, even play Cupid without help from people are the

[00:01:18] next wave of artificial intelligence. Techies see this as the evolution of

[00:01:23] chat GPT because it's capable of changing so many aspects of our lives. Here to

[00:01:29] tell us more about some of these agents and what they are capable of is our

[00:01:32] reporter, Bel Lynn. Bel, when it comes to travel, there are already bots that

[00:01:37] can help you plan a trip. Where to go, what to see, etc. What's the next

[00:01:42] wave of AI bots going to be able to do? So, Price Line has a bot called

[00:01:48] Penny and they call it basically a travel assistant in that it can currently

[00:01:52] make those reservations, make those bookings for you in addition to helping

[00:01:57] plan your itinerary. But they're kind of the rare exception in this world of

[00:02:01] bots and travel right now. What about some of the other companies like

[00:02:06] Apple, for example? Yeah, Apple is a really interesting player in this

[00:02:10] space because with their Siri voice assistant, they were kind of one of

[00:02:14] the first out of the gate along with the other tech giants to come out with

[00:02:18] these voice assistants that promise to do a lot of the things that AI bots or

[00:02:22] agents are now soon primed to do. But the next evolution is that Siri can

[00:02:28] take all of the personal data that's sitting on your iPhone, that's sitting

[00:02:32] on your MacBook and know when your calendar shows that you're available,

[00:02:36] where you've traveled before based on your text messages with your

[00:02:39] friends and put together that itinerary for you along with many

[00:02:43] other things in your personal life, such as texting photos from your

[00:02:47] recent picnic to your mom because it's aware of and learning from all

[00:02:51] the data on your devices. So are we heading towards a future where

[00:02:55] different kinds of bots will be communicating with each other?

[00:02:58] The current theory in the way that these bots will interact is

[00:03:03] that there could be millions of bots at some very near term point

[00:03:07] in the future because it's likely that you'll have this sort

[00:03:10] of micro bot to do one small thing like browsing the Internet for

[00:03:14] your next outfit for a friend's wedding and then another bot that

[00:03:18] will actually do the purchasing and another bot that's actually

[00:03:22] connecting to the retailer's API or the retailer's technology

[00:03:25] connection on the other end. And so it's very possible that in

[00:03:29] order for this bot world to actually exist, that they need to

[00:03:34] be virtually connecting or interacting with other bots.

[00:03:37] When it comes to financial guidance, a lot of people are

[00:03:40] already relying on technology, but you're reporting that these

[00:03:43] AI bots will be even better at this. How so?

[00:03:47] What's really ripe for AI is collecting all that data right

[00:03:51] now to better inform the financial advisor's decision.

[00:03:55] What's coming in the near term future is that AI takes the

[00:03:59] combination of the real time data as well as the learning

[00:04:02] from the client's portfolio to actually automate that

[00:04:06] decision making. So the kind of role of the investment

[00:04:09] advisor becomes to kind of oversee the decisions or the

[00:04:13] advisement of the AI bot.

[00:04:15] And are there risks to doing that though?

[00:04:18] Oh, absolutely. The risks abound here and that's one of the

[00:04:21] reasons why the technology hasn't quite become mainstream

[00:04:24] when they have access to our bank accounts, to sensitive

[00:04:28] information. And so right now developers are thinking about

[00:04:31] building in these safeguards so that maybe you have another

[00:04:34] layer of verification where humans are in the loop and

[00:04:37] providing the final go ahead to say, yes, I do want to make

[00:04:41] this purchase. I want to make this investment decision.

[00:04:43] What about an aspect that's maybe a little less risky, a

[00:04:47] little more fun, something like setting up a date?

[00:04:51] One of the things that Grindr, which is primarily known as

[00:04:54] a app for connecting gay men, one of the things they're

[00:04:57] doing is coming out with an AI wingman. And so this is

[00:05:00] their version of a bot that can basically do all the

[00:05:03] things that users currently do on Grindr, but do so in a way

[00:05:08] that is kind of like your personal assistant. And so if

[00:05:11] you've got hundreds of favorites or matches or chats and

[00:05:14] conversations, the wingman can do something like notate all of

[00:05:18] those chats and conversations so you can more quickly go to

[00:05:20] your favorite match in a certain place or a certain

[00:05:23] city. And then beyond that, the wingman can also

[00:05:26] recommend a great coffee shop for your next date based on a

[00:05:30] certain location that you want to go to in a certain time.

[00:05:34] That was our reporter, Bellyn. Coming up, why app makers

[00:05:38] match group and meta what Apple and Google to take on a role

[00:05:42] in verifying smartphone users ages? That's after the break.

[00:05:59] Should regulation of teen social media use happen entirely

[00:06:04] within apps? Or do smartphone makers and app stores also

[00:06:08] have a role to play? That's a question that tech

[00:06:11] companies and lawmakers are grappling with. A number of

[00:06:14] legislatures in different states are looking to introduce

[00:06:17] bills that would require app stores to verify the age of

[00:06:21] users. And Apple is gearing up for a battle with app makers

[00:06:25] and legislators over the issue. Our reporter Jeff Horowitz is

[00:06:29] here to tell us more. So Jeff, right now it's up to the

[00:06:33] app makers to figure out how to verify a user's age. But

[00:06:37] there is a push to get smartphone makers and

[00:06:40] app stores to do it instead. What's the general argument

[00:06:43] for that?

[00:06:44] So to set the stage here, a lot of this comes out of people

[00:06:48] being angry with social media companies and some fairly

[00:06:51] well documented lapses on child safety as well as concerns

[00:06:55] that these products were simply not engineered with children

[00:06:58] in mind. And so a lot of states have passed laws

[00:07:01] requiring age limits and requiring social media

[00:07:04] platforms to do more to police that. The problem is

[00:07:07] is that it's really hard to ID a 13 year old. The push has

[00:07:12] been here from some parties and certainly from some child

[00:07:16] safety advocates as well as from social media apps has

[00:07:20] been to enhance parental controls to some degree so

[00:07:23] that the person who buys a phone and sets it up would

[00:07:27] be able to input an age date for the person who's

[00:07:30] going to be using it. So basically parents buying their

[00:07:33] kids a phone to be able to say, yeah, this kid's

[00:07:36] 11. They've got an iPhone, but they're 11 and thus

[00:07:39] certain portions of the Internet would be closed off to

[00:07:42] them from that device.

[00:07:43] What do app makers say about this?

[00:07:46] App makers are pretty upset that they haven't gotten

[00:07:50] cooperation on this from Google and Apple. And they've

[00:07:54] been pushing this for a while in a fairly public fashion

[00:07:57] match group which runs Tinder and a whole bunch of

[00:08:00] other dating apps declared its frustration that it

[00:08:03] can't get help in its goal of trying to keep 16 year olds

[00:08:07] out of the adult dating pool. The interesting thing has

[00:08:09] been on the other side. Apple and Google have been very,

[00:08:12] very quiet on this point.

[00:08:14] Okay, but now they're getting dragged into it. I want to

[00:08:16] take us to Louisiana which was one of the first US

[00:08:19] States attempting to make Apple enforce age restrictions.

[00:08:23] A lawmaker named Kim Carver crafted child safety

[00:08:26] legislation. What's the focus of that bill and how

[00:08:29] did he come up with it?

[00:08:31] It's very similar in sort of broad outlines to some of

[00:08:34] the other child safety bills that have been brought up

[00:08:36] in places like Utah and Arkansas and Louisiana.

[00:08:40] A big portion of it is social media apps are not

[00:08:44] supposed to be collecting data on minors and not

[00:08:46] supposed to be basically doing targeted, personalized

[00:08:49] content for them. That said, in the course of

[00:08:53] talking with all parties involved and sort of

[00:08:55] all stakeholders, this freshman representative

[00:08:58] Kim Carver spoke with Meta and Meta didn't like the

[00:09:01] bill but said, look if you're going to be asking us

[00:09:03] to be doing more things with keeping kids off the

[00:09:05] platform we could use some help from the app store.

[00:09:08] Carver considered this. He was consulting on this

[00:09:11] bill with a group of high school students, ran

[00:09:13] the idea by them. They were in favor as well.

[00:09:16] And so amended the legislation to include

[00:09:19] app stores and Apple was very not happy about this.

[00:09:23] So what did Apple say and do in response to

[00:09:26] having app stores added to this bill?

[00:09:28] So they have said that this would be a grievous

[00:09:31] privacy violation because they just simply don't

[00:09:35] share information about a user with an app.

[00:09:38] Apple hired a whole bunch of lobbyists down

[00:09:40] there when this amendment was made with the

[00:09:42] goal of trying to kill this particular proposal

[00:09:45] and get Louisiana back on track with the

[00:09:49] other states that had just targeted social

[00:09:51] media, not device manufacturers or app stores.

[00:09:54] The bill was popular with lawmakers and it passed

[00:09:57] the Louisiana House unanimously.

[00:09:59] But before it could get to the state's Senate,

[00:10:01] it had to go through a key committee.

[00:10:04] Can you tell us what happened there?

[00:10:05] According to Representative Carver, he spoke

[00:10:08] with the head of the committee who strongly

[00:10:10] suggested that if the bill's best chance would

[00:10:12] be if the app store language was removed.

[00:10:15] He grudgingly agreed to do that.

[00:10:18] He didn't want to lose the entire bill over

[00:10:20] this one provision.

[00:10:21] Apple was also telling people that the bill,

[00:10:24] if it passed in its amended form, was going

[00:10:26] to result in years of litigation.

[00:10:29] They didn't specify from whom.

[00:10:31] Has Apple said anything specifically about

[00:10:32] the committee hearing and the removal

[00:10:34] of the app store provision?

[00:10:36] Apple has said that it always behaves ethically

[00:10:38] and its lobbying is not underhanded.

[00:10:41] It's noted that Metta also hired lobbyists

[00:10:44] in Louisiana related to this subject matter.

[00:10:47] That was a reporter, Jeff Horowitz.

[00:10:49] And that's it for Tech News Briefing.

[00:10:52] Today's show was produced by Zoe Culkin

[00:10:54] with supervising producer Catherine Milsob.

[00:10:57] I'm Zoe Thomas for The Wall Street Journal.

[00:10:59] We'll be back this afternoon with TNB Tech Minute.

[00:11:02] Thanks for listening.