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Speaker 1:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of All Things MSP, the podcast. Now, today's episode is a little bit special because I'm going to be doing these from time to time, and in this episode what we're going to be doing is introducing you to an influencer or an educator, somebody special in the space that's not a vendor because we try and keep this vendor neutral. Today's guest is Greg Plum and we're going to be talking about ecosystems. And one of the things I'm going to be using some of these special episodes for is to kind of tee up maybe an educational session that we're going to have after this, and that's what Greg and I have kind of discussed and talked about. And so after this, we're actually going to record in office hours where we're going to go into the topic of ecosystems a little bit deeper, give you some more practical items that you can actually put into play when you're talking about your strategy as an MSP and how you are going to include ecosystems as part of your strategy. Alright, let's get going with today's episode. Hey Greg, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:
Eric, it's good to be here. Good to see you.
Speaker 1:
So we spare no expense for introductions here.
Speaker 2:
I love it. I feel like there's pressure to perform now.
Speaker 1:
That's okay. I mean, we bring people like you on because you have something to share with the MSP world that matters to them, and I think ecosystems is one of those things. People like Jay McBain have been talking about ecosystems for a while. I think 2024 actually, you and I just saw it before we started this show. People are starting to talk about ecosystems and how it affects the MSP channel and specifically the MSP channel because it is a little bit different from the rest of the IT channel itself. But we're going to talk about enough of that today. I don't want to spoil everything, but first of all, let's have you introduce yourself, let people know who you are and why you're here.
Speaker 2:
Sure. Well thanks Eric. Certainly appreciate the opportunity to be here. Well, you and I crossed paths originally with you CompTIA. Talk about to me one of the ultimate MSP communities available today. So the irony is not lost to me that that's what kind of brought us together. So I have been in the channel for over 20 years. I started out in the communications channel, unified communications, and actually it was even before that, it was basic conference calling. Remember the days Eric, when you would call an 800 number and a pin code? That's where I started. I cut my teeth there back in 2000 and discovered the whole concept of channel and then morphed into the IT channel about 2013. So it's been about 10 years that I've been involved with compt. Right now I am a fractional partnership exec, so I work with different companies, software companies, helping them go to market through strategic alliances partnerships. And when you do that, you cannot avoid the concept of ecosystem. That's one of those things that we're really trying to leverage. So my current assignment, I'm currently with a partner ready. We're an ecosystem advisory firm. It's a boutique. There's about a dozen of us around the world and we focus specifically on taking different, it could be anything, but really we would focus on SaaS offerings, taking them to market, uncovering routes to market that the founders might not have thought of on their own. That's what our focus is.
Speaker 1:
And so you are more of a vendor to vendors rather than to MSP partners?
Speaker 2:
Yes. The reason why I'm here today is really I want to take that conversation and really flip it. People nowadays, when you're talking ecosystem, everybody is targeting the SaaS vendor. And I've had this discussion with, I mean if you know Dina Moskowitz over at Partner Optimizer, she and I had this conversation, I don't know six, 10 months ago around the concept of ecosystem. It applies to more than just the SaaS founder, the SaaS provider. It absolutely can be a game changer for the MSP because the MSP is part of that same ecosystem. It's just viewing it through a different lens. So that's what I'm here for to help change that conversation a little bit, not change it, but look at it through the MSP lens and help them understand how they can actually leverage it just like their SaaS providers are doing.
Speaker 1:
So I know that it's been talked about a lot recently, but I don't know that I've seen a really good definition of ecosystem. So first of all, define it and then kind of give me an idea of what makes it different from just channel.
Speaker 2:
I love it. Okay, so ecosystem. If you look at the classic definition, it's when you're walking through the woods and you look around you and you have all these organisms that are thriving off of one another, right? You pull one out and the whole environment changes. It's not unlike that where you have different providers, vendors, consultants, organizations, all these different influencers that are really getting a job done and none of them really happen in a vacuum. When we understand that and we take that 360 view and it's important who we're looking at, we'll get to that in a second, that's really where you start to identify these new routes to market that are there all along. The challenge is identifying them and then leveraging them. So to me, if you ask 10 different people when an ecosystem is Eric, you're going to get 10 different answers.
So I'm going to give you my answer. My answer is essentially in the text, but I look at it through the tech lens and it's around. The importance is not who I know. When I look at an ecosystem, it's not who I know. And a lot of founders will do that. They'll say, okay, who can sell my stuff for me? Who do I know and who can take it to market? It's the wrong question. The right question is who is my ICP? Who is my target customer and how do they get their job done? Who are they interacting with on a day-to-day basis? It may have absolutely nothing to do with my service, but that's not the point. The point is how are they getting their job done? Once we identify that, that partner already calls it the value chain of the customer. All those different components that really make up the tools that the customer is using on a day-to-day basis to get the job done, we need to know that these represent, once we identify them, we can figure out a way to dovetail bolt on, make that offering stronger so they can better serve that same customer that we're trying to serve mutually.
That's to me the value of ecosystem. So the is all those different players. let me give you an example, let me give you no slides, but let me just give you a visual. You've seen a NASCAR race or you've seen indie. When the driver's running around on the track, what happens, Eric, when they pull into the pit stop,
Speaker 1:
The pit crew goes to work,
Speaker 2:
They get swarmed, that pit crew goes to work and they've got a dozen people or more with a specific job, a specific task with the common goal of getting that driver back out on the track as soon as possible. That's it. So using that same analogy, SaaS, the ICP, that driver is your customer. So what we want to do is we want to figure out who is influencing the customer, who is helping them get their job done day to day. Those are potential partners for us, so that's who we want to identify. A SaaS founder is doing the same thing. They're looking to see, okay, who's in that ecosystem? Who can I leverage? The MSP is in that ecosystem. They're one of the players. They're one of the folks in the helmet and the microphone that are out there with a specific task to be done, just like the SaaS provider. So it's just a different lens that they're looking through, but the target is still the same. It's still that the driver, the ICP and I asked another question, which I love, how's it different than channel? And this, I think it's very different and I think a common misconception, you'll hear people using them interchangeably today. I think it's starting to happen
Speaker 1:
And I think that's the danger.
Speaker 2:
Agreed. I mean, when somebody says their job title was channel Chief and now it's ecosystem chief, okay, well, it's not quite that simple. Or channel manager become an ecosystem manager. To me it's not that simple. An ecosystem is a little bit, you have to step back a little bit. The other analogy you'll love this is a video guy, open the aperture a little bit, right? Let's step back and if I had slides, it'll be abundantly clear. So that'll be in our office hours. When we do that, we see all the different players and yes, some of those players will be consultants, agents, MSPs that are a part of the channel, but they are not the entire ecosystem. They're a component of the ecosystem. And I think it's important to recognize that because if we fell into the trap of saying channel is the ecosystem, we're too limited. We're looking at it with blinders, and I think it's a critical error. We don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:
I kind of think of it as channel is almost unidirectional and it's a straight line path from whoever creates the thing to whoever uses the thing at the end with multiple levels of sellers in between,
Speaker 2:
It's much more linear. Absolutely. Whereas an ecosystem, you can think of it as more of a web, it's more of a matrix for sure.
Speaker 1:
I was going to say more of a network topology, but web works exactly the same idea, same visual.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. That to me, I think is powerful. I think when an MSP can understand their place in that ecosystem and really, really understand and scrutinize their ICP their customer and understand how they get their job done, that's going to give them a much stronger position in serving that customer. And then at the same time, they're going to uncover other partners that they can lock arms with and go win other business together. That's the beauty of this whole model,
Speaker 1:
And that's kind of where the ecosystem comes into play because you're looking at not just the single path to the end user, but you're looking at the other connections on the network that the end user has and trying to leverage those other connections for the benefit not only of the end user, but also for you as an ecosystem partner.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. I mean, think about it. When you identify somebody who's trying to sell into your or already servicing your customer, your target customer, they have a whole other book of business. When you figure out a way and you have to be, I say it's an ecosystem, not an ecosystem, it's about them and not you, right? When you figure out a way to help that partner that's already serving that customer better, serve them, be more comprehensive, they're going to want to bring you along into other deals. And that's the whole value of this. It's definitely a leveraged kind of a compounding type effect.
Speaker 1:
And I see the MSP, the value add for the MSP is the SP is very tied in to how that end user's business runs, how it operates, what it needs, all of those types of things that another connection from the ecosystem may not be as embedded with. They may
Speaker 2:
Providing founders. That's exactly why everybody, all these ISVs that are coming up with these unique software applications that maybe fill a void in the tech stack, that's why these MSPs are so incredibly valuable because they do have that trusted relationship with their customer base.
Speaker 1:
And that's why ecosystem is different than channel. And I think just in the last couple of moments we've talked about why it's important to the MSP, right? Because it gives them other avenues to look at, other connections to look at in terms of these end users and the MSPs are in a special place because they have that value add of having a deeper knowledge and understanding of the internal workings of that business.
Speaker 2:
Eric, I can't tell you how many conversations I have in a week with different software companies, founders, CROs, MSP is the prettiest girl at the dance right now. There is no question about it. Everybody wants to be a part of their offering simply because they are uniquely positioned with their customers as that trusted advisor. They've already done that, so they've done that hard work. So you're not going into the deal cold at the top of the funnel. You're going in closer to the bottom of the funnel. You just need to be able to execute on what the promise is. I mean, it doesn't mean the work is done for you, don't get me wrong. You need to clearly state your value prop and it has to do what it says on the tin, if you remember that old saying. And if it does, then it's going to be a much smoother, much more efficient sales process. If it doesn't, then you need to retool and go back to the drawing board. But having that MSP bring you to the deal is extremely powerful. And that's why the software, all the SaaS providers out there are really targeting MSPs right now.
Speaker 1:
And one of the things that goes along with that is that the MSPs that are moving towards commoditization, by the way, will not be able to do this because commoditization means that you lose that relationship, that familiarity with the internal workings of the client because you can't customize down that far. So that's why I think, as you said, the MSPs are the prettiest girl at the dance because of that relationship. So I would say the MSPs who are not commoditizing, who are not standardizing as much and are maintaining that custom relationship with their clients, are the ones that are going to benefit from an ecosystem more.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, it's still a bespoke exercise. It absolutely is. It is not a plug and play. You have one template that you put, and I have a lot of friends that are MSPs and I hear what they go through. It's not easy. I don't envy their role because every client brings their unique challenges to the table. And then the MSP needs to be nimble. They need to have the wide lens to be able to see all the different tools that are available to address the needs of that particular situation. So it's certainly not one size fits all, but it's almost way beyond that. It's almost like that custom tailor that comes in and really stitches that suit, that rockstar suit on that body perfectly. And that's again, I think you're right. If they go in with that mindset of just kind of being a commoditized play, I just think there's another race to zero. Why do that? Why even go down that route?
Speaker 1:
Exactly. Exactly. So I'm excited about diving deeper into this ecosystem concept and how MSPs can actually take advantage of it. What are some of the things we're going to talk about in that upcoming office hours?
Speaker 2:
It's going to be, actually, we've just teased the concept a little bit. We're going to go a little bit deeper and talk about the specifics and some examples, real life examples where I have one where I'm working with a Salesforce client right now. We could talk about that ecosystem and what it did and open eyes to revenue routes that we had no idea really existed. We will also talk about the MSP. My goal at the end of that office hours is to give you just something to walk away where to give you the right questions to ask to uncover maybe how your target customers, there'll be an exercise where you'll walk away with homework, you don't have to report back, but I guarantee if you follow the homework, you'll be able to walk away with at least one new, we'll call it route to market or potential partner from this analysis that we're going to do.
Speaker 1:
Awesome. So I am so looking forward to that and as soon as we have all of the details lined up about that, we will let you know. I imagine it's probably going to be at least towards the end of January, beginning of February, maybe before we can get that scheduled. And I think we might even do it live so that there may be an opportunity for q and a. So a lot of detail still to be worked out, but there's a lot of different things that we can do here to kind of make this work. Greg, thank you very much for coming on the podcast today and I look forward to seeing you at the office hours.
Speaker 2:
Of course, Eric, thanks for the opportunity. I'm looking forward to it and wish a very happy new Year.
Speaker 1:
Thank you, Greg.
Speaker 2:
Cheers.
Speaker 1:
Alright everybody. So hopefully now you've got a taste of what ecosystem is, why it's different from just channel and why it's going to be important for MSPs who want to engage in this type of business, the non commoditized type of business that we're talking about here, and actually driving value to your clients in a different way, in a different route, or becoming that funnel for a lot of that traffic, a lot of that value to come through to your end user. So you'll see announcements when we get ready to have the office hours if we have it live. We definitely want people on there to comment, to ask questions. And like Greg said, there's going to be valuable action items for you to do coming from this event. So definitely you don't want to miss it. And this is one of the ways that we are committing to the All Things MSP community in 2024 to provide more educational content, free content that you can just take and be able to use in your business. So thanks a lot for being here and I'll see you in the next one.
