Compliance: The Next Opportunity? | EP80

Justin Esgar (00:07):

So I was in Disney last week, took the family on vacation. It was nice to get away. I thought it was going to be one of those vacations where it wasn't going to be vacation. I was with my in-laws and my kids and we were seeing a lot of friends and we were doing a lot of things. I even went to a client or two while I was out there and it turned out it wasn't that bad. It was a very nice, I mean, it wasn't relaxing in any way shape. I came home and I was like, I am beat. And then the next day my wife asked me to put up barn doors in her office, which took eight hours. So I haven't actually rested, but it wasn't terrible. And so we did a full day at Disney and then we went back the next night because Michelle and I somehow or other got reservations at Club 33, which is apparently super occlusive.

(00:52):

I'm not a Disney person, so I don't get it. So we went back the next day, did rise of the resistance. We couldn't do it the night before. And then we went to DCA the next day. And here's the really cool thing about all of this. So when Covid started, I don't know how, but I got invited to the ACN program, the Apple Consultants Network. We had regional groups. So I'm in the New York, New Jersey Connecticut group and I used to run it to basically ran it into the ground. There's a southern Californian group, which when Covid started, had a daily check-in, I've talked about this before. They had a daily check-in on Zoom every day at Zoom 2:00 PM Pacific time, they would all get on Zoom and check in and see how things are doing and talk about their clients or whatever. And it's still going.

(01:34):

And for me it was awesome. It was 5:00 PM my time, so it's the end of the day and I'm making dinner. I don't have to contribute a whole lot. But over the last three to four years, I've become real good friends with a lot of these people. And so when I went out there this past week, despite being with my in-laws, they bet my friend Ben, we went out for dinner. They met my friend Phil, who took us to the Magic Castle and showed Roman and Simona some of the most amazing magic that they've ever seen. Simona got to be involved with the show. He did magic for them. It was great. And then my friends, pat and Alex spent all day with us at Disney and DCA. And then our friend Matt showed up later in the afternoon in DCA to show us around and be a tour guide and tell us exactly which rides we should go on and help with the lightning lanes. It was awesome. It was amazing. It was such a better experience that way. I made another lightsaber, which I definitely don't need. I spent $25 on Roman, also built a lightsaber, but I spent $25 on this thing. Can you guess? You got to get youtube.com/at all things MSP too see this. Can you guess what this thing

Eric Anthony (02:46):

Is? I going to guess made

Justin Esgar (02:47):

A metal plastic on the

Eric Anthony (02:49):

Inside that it joins two lightsabers together so that you can have a double-ended lightsaber.

Justin Esgar (02:54):

That is a hundred percent correct. So it allows me to take two custom lightsabers, which I have over there, and I can screw them into this and I can make a bow staff lightsaber, which is ridiculous. $25, this junky piece of metal. We built another droid. So now I have two droids over there, but we went on a lot of rides and the kids had a great time and we saw some shows and we did some stuff and it was just a really nice week away. I hate Disney, but

Eric Anthony (03:28):

That actually

Justin Esgar (03:30):

Go

Eric Anthony (03:30):

When you can go to Disney and have people who understand how to move around and know kind of the secret ins and outs. It really does help. I mean, it's kind of like going to Disney with my wife who is actually an ex cast member. And yeah, believe it or not, well we went to school in the Orlando area, right?

Justin Esgar (03:54):

Oh yeah,

Eric Anthony (03:55):

That makes sense. And she's still a big Disney fan. She goes at least, no, I don't even want to know how many times a year she goes. But to having her along makes such a better experience because she knows exactly where to go and when to go and how to do certain things. But I have a confession to make.

Justin Esgar (04:21):

I

Eric Anthony (04:21):

Still have not been to Rise of the Resistance. I know

Justin Esgar (04:28):

This podcast is now over.

Eric Anthony (04:31):

Did

Justin Esgar (04:31):

We just jump the Shark? It's a great ride. It's a great ride. I'll tell you this, I don't like rides. I do get queasy a little bit on rides and there is one part of Rise of the Resistance. It's Rise of the Resistance. And Mickey and Mini's Runaway Railway are the same technology. There's this new technology, they're free flowing cars that follow a path. They're like Roombas basically. But there's a scene in Mickey and Minnie where the car is parked, but the video looks like you're falling off an cliff. I have to close my eyes for that. And in rise of the resistance, there's a part where the car is locked, you're on the floor, but with the video around you, they actually make the car feel like it thaws and then you're actually floating on a gimbal. And I was with Simona on Rise of the Resistance, and so it was me, Simona, Roman, my wife Michelle and my wife and Roman are like, yeah, whatever. And Simona is grabbing onto me. I don't like it. I don't like it. I will admit that when the ship drops, I'm putting this in, air codes drops into space. I may have grabbed my daughter's leg just like slightly too hard out of fear.

Eric Anthony (05:44):

Well, and you know that there is an Imagineer somewhere now after you just said that, who is either curled up in a ball or fuming mad because you compared their technology to a Roomba.

Justin Esgar (05:59):

Technology sucks then an ear and ear an ear.

Eric Anthony (06:08):

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Justin Esgar (06:56):

What's up everybody? Welcome to the All Things MSP podcast. My name is Justin Esgar. With me is the guy who's always off tilt because I throw him that way. Mr. Eric Anthony.

Eric Anthony (07:04):

Well that's what happens after we haven't recorded for several weeks together, right? We're getting back into it.

Justin Esgar (07:14):

I live on the edge of stupidity and so trying to throw you off just for when I'm going to do the intro. It brings a smile to my face. I'm sure it does. What else brings a smile to my face? The fact that we have some question from the group.

Eric Anthony (07:38):

All right, what do we got? Alright, so today's from the group is from an anonymous member because you can ask questions anonymously in the group. I know and it's a feature that I can turn on and off, but people have used it well, and I understand that there are certain times when you may want to ask a question anonymously, it just makes sense. So I've left it on anyway from anonymous member. It says hello, I'm relatively new to working for an MSPI work in operations. I have some very large clients who also have their own internal it. We are working towards setting up good ground rules for a co-managed environment. Good that they're thinking about this ahead of time. Some of our clients IT teams want to want admin access or large amounts of access to things like their cloud backup, global read privileges on their tenant, et cetera, which yeah, those are some important things to go through. And then they say there is a lot of back and forth internally between our engineers, partners, et cetera, on what is acceptable to give access to and what is not. I'm looking for tips and best practices for a good co-managed environment.

Justin Esgar (08:57):

Now

Eric Anthony (08:58):

Of course, that's a good

Justin Esgar (09:00):

Question.

Eric Anthony (09:00):

I gave them Bob Coppedge’s name and of course Bob has a book available on Amazon and the link is there in the post. So if you need it, go find the post in the Facebook group. But yeah, I mean there's a couple of things that I really want to unpack here. Number one is it is a thing. So either decide you are going to do it or you're not going to do it. Don't go kind of halfway into it where you're going to cause your problems. Because if you are going to enter into some type of co-managed agreement, you do need to have those ground rules that they're talking about. The other thing is, and this is probably personal opinion and I would lean towards other experts to give you their opinions, but in order to save myself a lot of headaches, I would not individualize the access that you give to co-managed IT departments. Because if one department has X privileges and another client's IT department has Y privileges going back and forth and knowing what you can and can't do for those two entities is going to be difficult. So make your ground rules up ahead of time and make them standardized across your co-managed clients. And I think that'll take you a long way to doing it

Justin Esgar (10:34):

Correctly. So my take on this is the way the question was phrased was that the IT team wants access to things. Well, they should have access to it in my opinion, unless it's a tool that you are providing the customer, which you're probably not providing them their Office 365, you're probably not. Maybe you are, maybe you're not. But I would say give them the access. What I would also say though is if you are supplying it for them, let them get it themselves. You're not making money on Office 365 licenses or backup. So let the customer pay for it themselves, give them access to it, and then you have now the appropriate secondary access. The other thing I would say is log everything. Make sure you're putting in things like, I dunno, seam or whatever this way or Lion Guard or something to that effect. This way when someone makes a change, you know who it was and you can CYA,

Eric Anthony (11:35):

Right? I think this has a lot to do with roles based permissions and privileges because it depends on what roles the internal IT department is doing versus what the MSP is doing. If the internal IT department is three help desk guys or gals just doing the help desk work, then they don't need access to the backups. They don't need access to certain things. They only need a certain level of access to the Microsoft tenant. So that's kind of where you make those decisions in my opinion. I think yes, the client's, the client and ultimately it's their decision. But if you are in a co-managed environment, you have to define what roles belong internally and what roles belong to the MSP.

Justin Esgar (12:29):

And it comes on documentation, document everything, lay it out, have it signed off on by anyone who needs to be in charge, whether that's their CTO or CSO or whatever, and stamp it and put it in and make sure you have a copy. They have a copy, and if there's a problem, refer back to document. That's it. That's the end of it. It's set the rules and follow them. It's like being a parent. Set your rules and follow 'em. I mean, I know parent does, but the concept is there. Well, thanks Anonymous member that has been from the group, if you want to find out how you can be from the group, check out facebook.com/group/all things msp join Eric, we'll let you in because I'm still not an admin and poke Poke and

Eric Anthony (13:22):

He's not bitter about it at all

Justin Esgar (13:24):

Either. No, I'm, to be honest, I don't care. And you get to, if you post a good question, we will ask you from the group. So thanks so much.

Eric Anthony (13:35):

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Justin Esgar (13:58):

Let's talk about why I'm not an admin. I'm going to bring this into things, right? There's a reason I'm not an admin to the all things MSP, and that is because management of who has admins and who doesn't have admins do things is a co compliancy requirement. And that's what I want to talk about today. I want to talk a little bit about compliance, see, made it work. You are so shaken in your boots, I can see it happening. You want to see Eric shaken his boots youtube.com/at all things MSP search episode and find a picture of us doing this and watch Eric shake in his boots as I,

Eric Anthony (14:29):

Yeah, and I think this is a perfect place to bring up. By the way, that Compliance Scorecard is a sponsor of the group and we do appreciate their sponsorship. And if you need to know more about compliance and tools that might help you do compliance for your clients, check out ATSP link slash compliance scorecard.

Justin Esgar (14:53):

So I want to talk today a little bit about the things that I learned at this event that I went to that we've been talking about last episode or two, and what compliance really entails. Because a lot of people think that compliance is the rules that the device has to follow, that device, that phone, that computer is or is not in compliance with something. Now we can first off, let's back, actually I want to back up 30,000. There's what, 50,000, there's 5,000 different compliance levels we can do, right? There's so many different acronyms,

Eric Anthony (15:35):

There's different frameworks for generic IT compliance, and then there's also, there's a lot of specific industry specific compliance regulations or frameworks that different types of companies have to follow,

Justin Esgar (15:52):

Right? So let's take it from the very beginning, right? Security protects the data privacy protects the people, and compliance protects the organization. And when you look at it from that way, you realize that this isn't about hardening a drive as a one-off. This isn't about making sure that you are entra credentials are set up with two FA, even though that will be eventually part of it. This isn't even about ensuring that someone has access to some data, even though that is also part of it, right? It's weird to think about it this way, but this is the holistic whole organization and how the organization can follow the rules. Now, there are a lot of different forms of compliance. There's governance, there's regulation, certificate, baselines, laws and policies. What I want to do today when we're talking on the call is I want to just focus in on one because there are a lot out there. There's hipaa, there's nist, there's CIS, there's DSA sig, there's P-C-I-D-S-S, there's what's the one for the police that we talked about seven episodes ago? cgi, CGIS,

(17:15):

Right? There's all of these. The one I want to talk about today is nist. I just want to talk about nist. Let's just use that as our non-ironic word baseline for the rest of the episode. The National Institute of Standards and Technology. I think it is put out a guideline for IT folks to follow to ensure computers are compliance. Now the weird thing about this is that it is an accounting measure just like soc, just like all the other ones. It's an accounting measure around whether or not things are online or offline or tools are active or not active, right? The best part about this though is, and again, what I said earlier is we think about all of this and we think we say, Hey, it's about setting the rules on these computers or whatever. It's, it's not about any of that. It's about documentation. It's about having a document that says what is on, what is on, and then following the rules of that documentation. I saw your eyes roll at me, you didn't let me finish.

Eric Anthony (18:23):

I have thoughts.

Justin Esgar (18:24):

It's about following the rules of that documentation. So I want to get in today a little bit more about this, but let me hear your thoughts.

Eric Anthony (18:30):

So the way that I've talked about this in the past is that compliance, you're absolutely correct, is the documentation, it's the rules, it's the policies around the things that you should be doing, whether they are part of a framework, whether it's part of a regulation. And then governance is the actual inaction, the doing of the policies. So the way that I put it one time was that compliance is printing. The expiration date on the milk governance is checking the expiration date before you pour it on your cereal.

Justin Esgar (19:18):

And the policy is throw away the milk if the expiration date has passed. Correct? Which let's get into another episode about whether or not expiration dates are real or not. We all know that their best Buy best before dates are bs. So when it comes to doing compliance, now I can only obviously speak to it from the max side of things, but what we've done in the past for our clients is we have a couple of different things and I'm going to talk about what we've done in the past and what we're going to do in the future. In the past, what we've done is we have hired a security firm that we got through our vendor broker firm to do a NIST compliant interview with the customer. The customer would then have to answer 170 questions of Are you doing this? Yes, no, basically. And then you get a score and that was the end of it. So it used to be zero to five, and now they're doing it as tiers because of a new version or whatever.

(20:23):

And here's your baseline. Here's where you stand comparative to the quantification. That is nist. On the Mac side of things, there is a new product, it's not a product project, sorry. On the MAC side of things, there is a new project called the MSCP Max Security Compliance Project, and ISAP IO security one, the good folks at NIST worked with Mac admins and built out this MAC based compliancy that we can use and follow to make sure computers are compliant to nist. So the question is, okay, well if I just make a computer compliant to nist, what happens? Can't get to the computer anymore. Can't remote into the computer anymore. Can't airdrop, can't do Bluetooth, can't do wifi, can't do anything. So basically just turning everything on, I've completely bricked the computer. So there is a great way of building out what these rules should be.

(21:27):

And again, I apologize because I only know the max of things, but Jamf, who's an MZM provider created this project called the Jamf co Compliancy policy editor. And basically what it does is you launch this thing, you choose what OS you want to use, which Mac os, which version of compliance, you use any version of nist, there's 853, moderate hard light, cisa, DIS, whatever. They're all a bunch of them in there. And then you pick and choose the modules that you want to have on and you hit generate and it generates an H, TM L of the report, A PDF of the report and excel of the report and AOG of the report, and also produces the mobile configs. The profiles that we need to upload to our MDM and the scripts we have to run to harden the things that MDM can't actually fix on a Mac in 30 seconds. It's amazing. It's amazing. And so our MDM of Choice, agy actually has a lot of this built in. It doesn't do the documentation, but we can do all the mobile campaigns with them. And so I'm going to this class and he's showing me this stuff and we're doing NIST assessments for our clients, but what we're not doing is taking it to that next level and enabling NIST within our MDM and then telling whether or not a computer is compliant or not. And I'm like, what the hell have we been missing all of this time?

(22:54):

I am really attracted to compliance. It's weird. It's like the female Bugs Bunny.

Eric Anthony (23:00):

Well, compliance is one of those things where a lot of people don't want to do it because it does sometimes, like you said, if you implement everything, it basically cuts you off from everything because the most secure computer is the one that's not connected to anything, which obviously doesn't work in today's world. But it also used to be you had to go toggle these switches one at a time. And now that there are people out there writing the software like you described, to create the policies that therefore create the toggle switching automatically so that you can say, I need for this compliance or for this client, I need this list of compliances. And then it'll automatically create the profile for that and actually enable the profile on the device.

Justin Esgar (23:58):

One thing I've noticed in my travels is that this type of technology that additive has built in with this compliance checking, I haven't found a PC software that will do it on the fly. All the software I find for the PC market is like a just in time snapshot. It's not a continual checking software. They are out there. So I'd be interested to find, if you do know one, send me a dm. I do actually have a client that I need this for because the second part that I wanted to bring up when we talked about compliance in this class was a product called OS Query. Have you heard of

Eric Anthony (24:44):

This? It sounds familiar, but I can't pull it up from

Justin Esgar (24:50):

OS Query was built at Facebook. Sorry, I forgot. We're not supposed to name brand names. It was built at a very popular social media site that's run by a alien in a suit.

Eric Anthony (25:01):

It's meta popular.

Justin Esgar (25:02):

He won. That was really good. I like that one. He really does look like a lizard in human skin. Anyway, do you remember the Senate hearings where he wouldn't blink? He was just like, yes. Anyway, it's since broken off and now is its own nonprofit. Hold on. It's since Broken off and now it's its own nonprofit. And based on what O Query does is it turns your computer into an SQL searchable database of everything on your computer. And I don't mean the data, I mean the facts of the computer turns your

Eric Anthony (25:43):

Os,

Justin Esgar (25:44):

It turns your OS into basically a database.

(25:47):

So I can query the database using SQL to find out the users and to find out the uptime and to find out all these things. Now many of you're going, my MDM already does that. Cool. But what you can do also is if you use a program like Fleet, which is an OS querying service, it's like an online service and there's other ones out there, you can upload your compliance module to it and you can tell whether or not a device is under compliance now it won't remediate, right? And this is kind of why I was like, I haven't seen this PC thing and maybe there is one out there, but I was thinking that this is a great alternative because you can put OS query on anything, Mac, windows, Linux, Android, iOS, or maybe not iOS. I have to double check and we can query the machine.

(26:37):

And if the rules are on a Mac, you can't have airdrop turned on. If it fails, it gets picked up by OS query, it gets picked up by our service. In this case it's fleet, whatever, and then it opens a ticket in Halo. So one of my guys can go in and be like, Hey, you enable this thing, I'm going to disable it or find a way for it to auto remediate from another tool because the service is just a reading service. So the idea behind having compliance, which is an easy sellable item to clients, especially at the end of 2024 being in 2025, you should be talking to your clients about compliance and selling them and then having a tool that can query boxes and return these values to say whether or not they're in compliance or not, and then have that same tool open a ticket so that way your tier one guys can just solve it. Remember when we had that conversation about all IT stuff is really reactive and not proactive. This one set of steps has changed my mind because whilst yes, it is reactive for us to fix the problem, like turning airdrop back off, we are being proactive in regards to their compliance.

Eric Anthony (27:54):

Correct, because you're proving proactive in the piece where you're actually watching for it, you're watching for that setting to change, and when it changes, then you're reacting.

Justin Esgar (28:06):

Yeah, I love this. And so I was sitting there and I was at the end of it. I was like, I need more of this because there was so much. One thing that the person who was doing the presentation on had said was, and this is for all the MSPs that are out there when you're going to do compliancy and if the client is not necessarily a compliant client, we're not talking about doctor's offices that have to do HIPAA or FinTech who have to do that. If you're not sure what level of compliancy they need, don't be the one to write their baseline, pull their cyber insurance and find out what the cyber insurance requirements are. Now, I thought that was brilliant. So I emailed my insurance broker and said, Hey, can you send me our cyber insurance liability paperwork? And they do. And there's nothing in there around what needs to be on, what needs to be off.

(29:10):

I have no idea if I get hacked right now, I don't know if my cyber insurance will cover it because maybe someone didn't have someone had an airdrop on when they shouldn't have. But I don't know what the rules are. It's not there. So I called my broker and I said, need more. I need to know what they want. And she goes, don't call them. You're opening up a can of worms and it's going to cost you a lot more money. I said, you don't seem to understand what I'm asking. If I get breached, they may not cover it. If I don't get breached, I'm fine, but I need to know that if I do get breached, I need to know what I have to make sure I'm doing so that way I can be covered. And she's like, well, if you call them, they're going to tell you to do all these things and it's expensive. I'm like, I'm in it lady, it's fine. So I thought it was really funny that the compliance guy was like, did what you need to do. But the insurance broker was like, don't, do not put that phone down right now. Put it down. You know what I mean? I'm like, dude, come

Eric Anthony (30:05):

On. I mean that's scary if you really think about it. Now, if your clients call and get that same answer, then they're going to come back to you and go, well, my insurance agent said not to poke the bear.

Justin Esgar (30:22):

I'm like, exactly.

Eric Anthony (30:25):

To me, that's actually a negligent answer from somebody who is working in a regulated industry. I mean that's borderline really, I don't want to say illegal, but

Justin Esgar (30:42):

Against the rules. I mean, yeah, no, it's up there. The thing was the compliance guy I was showing was he was using HIPAA as an example. If you are found infraction of hipaa, and don't quote me to these, if I get it wrong, don't send me an email. But he said if you had fract on HIPAA and you were unaware of it, your lowest fee could be like a hundred dollars and your maximum could be $50,000, but your cap for the year is 1.5 million. But if you knew or you were told not to do it, that's a guaranteed $50,000 fine with a cap of $1.5 million. Now the second part to that is you have a small doctor's office. That's a lot of money. These big hospitals, that's an accounting rounding error, drops 'em a buck, they don't care. But the six person pediatrics firm that you take care of or that really sweet veterinarian firm who is still hipaa, they can lose their shirt if you don't do this.

(31:43):

And I guarantee because I know we do this, that if you're an MSSP and you're taking care of a small doctor's firm, no matter what they think they are doing, that's hipaa, it's not enough because just because they use HIPAA compliant software for Teladoc or they're using it for their EMR, the fact of the matter is you have four or five people who share a computer at the front desk who all have the password to the email account. You're all using one Gmail account that's not HIPAA compliant. In fact, there's more than one non HIPAA compliance issue there. Oh, I listen a lot right there on purpose. So these are the things, so it was a two hour thing on compliance, and I have been thinking about it for 48 hours.

Eric Anthony (32:29):

But like you said, this is something that should be easy for MSPs to sell at this point because you have ransomware, that's an issue. You have fees and fines from industry regulations like hipaa. You have the problem of they have some type of incident, they need to lean on their insurance, but because they weren't in compliance because they lacked the governance, now the insurance isn't going to pay. So there's lots of risk to the small business. And we're talking about micro businesses here, right?

Justin Esgar (33:14):

Yeah.

Eric Anthony (33:15):

So compliance now that the tools exist is much easier to do. And because you can say, we put these tools in place and we checked the boxes for their compliance needs, we were proactive. And that goes a long way to when you have an incident, when you have a regulation issue, things like that. And one of the tough parts here is, and you touched upon it earlier, is knowing what compliances they need. And sometimes that can be tough because sometimes they don't know. So really it's kind of one of those weird situations where I would absolutely recommend that MSPs educate themselves on how to do compliance discovery so they understand what types of compliances each individual client is likely subject to.

Justin Esgar (34:22):

And that's the hard thing. That's a hard piece of it for sure. And I was joking around with everyone. I was just like, my clients don't care about compliance. They just want to smoke weed and drop pictures, but their clients need compliance. It's just like, oh man, it really does

Eric Anthony (34:40):

Trickle well, and they still do have, even if they don't have PHI, they do have for their clients on their computers. And so there is breachable valuable data that they could have an issue with if they had an issue.

Justin Esgar (34:59):

So one of the things, and I'm going to end it on this even though this is actually the beginning of the compliance act, I want people to end the episode. I want to end the episode on this one because I want people to be thinking about this when we're done talking. So before I get into this, I'm going to say check us out at facebook.com/group/all things msp youtube.com/at all things msp, all of your favorite podcast. You guys know, okay, here's what I want to end with. You get up and you go to the office outside your house and on your way you get a coffee, okay? Standard day, you get up, you a shower, you leave the house, you go get a coffee and a bagel, you go to your office.

(35:43):

How many compliant regulations have you gone through in just the first 10 minutes of your day? Because let's think about this. There is compliancy around your automobile. The NTSB crashes thousands of cars a year to make sure your car is safe. There is compliancy around the gasoline you've put in your car. There is compliancy, P-C-I-D-S-S at the gas station. There's compliancy around emissions, there is compliancy at the coffee shop. Again, P-C-I-D-S-S. And also if you got one of those little sleeves that tells you your coffee is hot and then you pay for it with a credit card, there's so many places where we as individuals don't see it. And I think if you take what I just said, which was taught to me to tell your clients how to look at it that way, it's an easy, easy sell for your

Eric Anthony (36:49):

Customers. And a lot of compliance started with that sleeve on your coffee cup. It started with a lawsuit. So don't be part of the lawsuit. If

Justin Esgar (37:03):

You are, go back like nine episodes to our episode with Bradley Gross and get his contact information. Fair enough. That's it for us. I already did the

Eric Anthony (37:11):

Link. So I'm Justin, that's Eric. Bye. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform. You can also follow us on Facebook, but better yet, go ahead and join the Facebook group. You can also follow us on Instagram if that's your thing. And make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel at all things MSP to catch us in all of our video glory. And last, but certainly not least, if LinkedIn is your thing, you can follow us there as well. And a special thank you to our premier sponsors Super Ops Move Bot goes into Easy MAC and comtech. And we also want to thank our vendor sponsors. The All Things MSP podcast is a biz POW LLC production.