EP19 - Digital Organization with Shawn Lemon

Justin Esgar (00:07):

What's up everybody? Welcome to another amazing episode of the All Things MSP podcast. The A in all in ATMSP actually should be amazing, not all amazing things. MSP podcast. I am your host, Justin Esgar. With me always is my good friend and OG host, Mr. Eric Anthony. Eric, what is happening today? My friend?

Eric Anthony (00:27):

 just, you know, living the MSP life, although I, I keep saying that, right? Like, I'm not an MSP anymore, but I'm so attached to this community that I just, I eat, drink, sleep. Even though <crosstalk>,

Justin Esgar (00:39):

We need that as our hashtag, that needs to be our hashtag living the MSP life. Though I think it's a couple letters too long. speaking of living the Life, we have a great guest today. Mr. Sean Lemon. The digital organizer is Wibo. Hey Sean is a oddly enough, too much like this company is a digital organizer, but I'll let him explain exactly what that means. Sean, why don't you tell everybody at home give like two lines about, you know, what you do, what the general organi organization is, and what kind of, what kind of workout did you do yesterday?

Shawn Lemon (01:14):

Well, it's a really long walk and that's pretty much it. So that's, yeah, that's the workout the digital organizer. What we do is we help small businesses and professionals get organized, streamline their stuff so that they can work a lot more efficiently.

Justin Esgar (01:32):

And I think that's a big goal for a lot of people, especially in it, like I think I remember I always put like on my to-do list, like my first thing is always like get through emails, clean desk, right? Because like organization allows us to perform better, you know, be more efficient, things like that. From a digital, from a digital standpoint though, you know, I, I immediately go to clean up my photos, right? Which is what I do not think you're talking about here, right? So for, for for an M S P owner, what does it mean to digitally organize their data?

Shawn Lemon (02:09):

So to digitally organize their data, it's taken a look at, well, a lot of it is the file structure is what is a big part because all of the team is going into this main resource. So having all of your resources together your documentation for things client files, I mean, things like that. Having all of that put together, it's, it's a really huge part. And we want to think about this as kind of creating a workshop of, instead of, you know, just putting files in folders and keeping like resources together, we wanna think about what are the tasks that we're doing over and over again, and let's organize our files based around how we actually work like we would in a workshop in digitally. And so most people, when they go into their businesses or into their digital system, if you were to take that and turn that physical, it'd be a horrible space to work in.

(03:06):

<laugh> stuff all over the place, constantly tripping. You bought the same thing over and over again because you forgot that you had it. How much work are your people putting in redoing the same documentation that's just lost? Someone else did it or you sent it to a customer, but it wasn't actually put in a centralized resource. And so getting all of that stuff together streamlined so that when you hire a new contractor, you hire a new employee, it's, oh, I'm gonna share it this particular folder with them and they've got access to everything that they need. When I onboard them into one password, I've got these three vaults that I check next to their, their names, and now they've got access to the passwords that they need. And the two step verification codes are already integrated. And so people can just work instead of trying to wade through all the junk that is just piled up in our, you know, digital hoarding mess. <laugh>,

Justin Esgar (04:01):

I mean, it's an interesting concept to think about it, right? 'cause like typically a lot of us would organize our folders based on client names. And what you're saying is organize it based on the thing that it is. So all documentation lives in one place. So you can share that document that is that, that someone would wrote that is generic enough and not specific to that one client. Because you know, we all have, we all have, every client needs to know how to reset their password or whatever it is, right? You can share it. 'cause everybody knows it's in the documentation folder as opposed to, I wrote a document on how to reset your password for, you know, x, y, Z company and it's sitting in the x, y, Z folder, right?

Shawn Lemon (04:39):

Right. And there's a hybrid of that. Like I have client folders where I've got stuff that's just made specifically for them that I can't share them. But after doing that a number of times and then I get another request for it, then I realize why am I doing this and addressing this person specifically in this loom or whatever. I'm gonna make it general when doing this instead of using their account, I'm gonna use my account and show them. And that way I can have a generalized resource that everyone can access. So yes, in that, another example would be things like expenses. Why are we putting expenses in different folders? We should need one folder for expenses. Because when you think about the task of categorizing expenses and reconciling the books, all you're doing is looking at a huge list of transactions and QuickBooks.

(05:32):

And so there are already three pieces of information there, the date, the cost, the vendor. And what you're trying to figure out is what category does it go in? So if you're saving receipts, you just need one folder and you put those three things plus the extra information that you need. And that's category and then description. And so that way you just share that one folder with your bookkeeper or accountants or whoever and they never have to ask you what this receipt is for. Again. So why are we creating this? If you've got a ton of clients, you're buying stuff for clients, well, if you just add in the client name in that naming convention, then you can search that folder for the client name and there's all of their transactions. Why are we separating it out? So this, the idea about thinking of a different way of organizing is what is the task? Like when am I going to recall this information and how do I need to find it so that I can do the task really efficiently? Like expenses, for example. And some things are more hairy and, and you have to create shortcuts 'cause you need things in multiple places. But that's the core of it.

Eric Anthony (06:39):

So, but that, that makes a lot of sense to me because you know, MSPs naming conventions are not a foreign thing, right? Right. We usually have naming conventions for clients. We have naming conventions for devices. So using something like that as naming conventions for files actually makes a lot of sense because now you're right. You can just glance at the name and be able to know more about what that file is for and about.

Shawn Lemon (07:08):

Exactly. You can get away with so many less sub-folders. So we like having the top level have the majority of the stuff. And so when you think about it, like we can apply the 80 20 rule to the assets that we have, you know, so out of the a hundred percent that we've got, usually it's 20%, which is the thing that moves the needle most. And if we focus on that, you know, the, the concept, so it's even smaller than that for the files that are actually relevant right now, you know, we've got all of these other assets that we might need and, and need to get to, but those can be an extra click away. Why don't we have everything that's current that we're working on up the top and then we can archive in context. So I, my client's folder only shows the clients that are active right now.

(07:59):

And then I have inactive clients and then I've got prospects. And inside of prospects are the people that are currently in my sales cycle. And all the people who said no are not moving, are in the not moving forward. So my client's folder is super clean and then people get moved in and out because clients are active and then they're inactive. Because while we have an M S P side, I'm actually offloading some of those M s P clients to other people. I've actually talked to Justin about some people going over to him or clients that we've got to say, Hey, go talk to Justin. We're, 'cause we're really wanting to focus more on digital organization for clients. So people kind of come and go for that. And so you can easily kind of move things around. So it's another example of, of file structure in a good naming convention, you don't need all of these sub folders, but you can use them to file things away once you're done with them and don't need 'em front, front of mind. So

Justin Esgar (08:53):

Lemme ask you a question though. Like, going back to expenses for example, right? Yeah. If, if you're, if you're tracking all of those expenses, I mean, you could have thousands or multi thousands of files. Sure. You're, you're okay with all of that just sitting at the top level just because the naming is fine and someone can search within it, right? Like that's what you're getting at?

Shawn Lemon (09:13):

Yeah. So if, if I had that many files, that would kind of intimidate me. And so I'm afraid of probably I would wanna archive some of the older stuff. Okay. So once it gets, once it gets so big or if it becomes cumbersome to, to work in, then I'm want to chunk that down. And so then I would have a folder called processed and then everything would get dumped into processed. And then a process got really big and I wasn't able to easily search it. I'm using Google Drive, so that's not a problem for me. Then I would chunk down those folders even more and maybe do those on years or something like that, depending on the volume. Got it. Got it. I always think of using sub-folders like I do for, you know, an actual filing cabinet. So if I've got a folder that is just packed full, well then it's not easy to navigate. So I need to chunk that down into smaller things. But I only want what's current at the front. And then I want an extra click to go find the stuff that I don't access regularly.

Justin Esgar (10:17):

So I wanna take this to a similar thing. Let's talk about email because all of us get a bo load of email on a regular basis. I tend to try to keep my inbox clean. If it's red, it goes, I have a folder called virtual computers, it just goes into that folder 'cause I can search mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Yeah. Same concept. Or are you, or are you, is your inbox your top level folder and you literally have everything in your inbox just because you can search? Or I'm gonna give you a third, a second option. Third option for those who are using Google using the labels the right way in Gmail, 'cause those don't translate to MacMail itself, but using labels in Gmail. So how do you, how does someone organize when they have as much email as any M S P would?

Shawn Lemon (11:08):

 I like zero inbox. I don't always get to zero inbox. It feels great. I don't always get to zero inbox because there's a couple of things that, that I'm gonna leave in there that I'm, that I'm working on. but often what I like to do is snooze it for the time that I'm gonna set aside to actually get it done. So it's like, oh, I know Thursday morning's gonna be light. Let me go ahead and set a chunk of time aside to be able to handle this so I can snooze this for Thursday morning so that way you can clear out the inbox and get it done. So what about folders or labels? I'm not a huge fan of them. especially being a Google user, the search function works so well. I have so many different parameters that I can use.

(11:55):

Why would I create a bunch of folders? But I do have a few. So I like to use SaneBox for email filtering, even though I don't get that much email. I've, I've done some things that we can get into if you want, so that I get a lot less email. but then the email that like would come from you guys, it's gonna hit my inbox if it's a newsletter that I actually want and read, it goes to my later folder that SaneBox puts in there. And then I created another SaneBox folder called financial and shipping. And anything that I buy or anything shipping related or money related, it all goes in there. So I make a purchase from a new vendor, it hits my inbox, I move them to the financial and shipping same box, keeps all of the rest of the communication from them in there for me.

(12:43):

So the financial shipping, it's a huge folder with a bunch of email in it. And the only reason I don't clear it out because why all I'm doing is going back to reference it maybe. And so, and I go and click on those emails whenever I need to read them. So I've got right now a number of emails in later. So I actually have two email accounts that I check. So there's two later folders and there's two financial and shipping and there's emails in there, but they don't hit my inbox, so I'm not distracted by them. So you know, so those are the only two real labels that I use regularly. Sometimes I use travel. So if I'm traveling anything related to the confirmation numbers, the things that I would actually need. So here is the, the confirmation number for Hertz Rental Car.

(13:32):

Like this is the one thing, the, all of the rest of the emails they send me, they just get archived. I only need that one thing or the one confirmation for the flight. And so that's really paired down. And so I hide that label when I'm not using it and I bring it back when I am. And then I've got a folder for real estate transactions. So if I buy a house, like I don't remember who all these people are and I know I could search for it, but it makes me feel good having a folder that encompasses every email about that transaction because it's really important to me. And so that exists. And then when that transaction is complete, I, I hide the folder in the label list. So that's how I use it. People who are really project based, they're working with a ton of people, they can't remember who all is involved and they need to be able to reference back and be able to scan through because they're not sure how to find it. Please use a label by all means, but don't go and file all your stuff because just search for it. Be descriptive in your search. Be creative with your search and you'll be able to find it pretty easily if you're using a modern tool. Right.

Eric Anthony (14:39):

And I guess that makes sense, right? If, and, and, and that's a good decision making criteria is if you need to scan it rather than searching, then have a label for it, right? Or have a folder for it. If you know you are just going to be searching for specific emails later on, then just throw it in that one big folder and search when you need to,

Shawn Lemon (15:09):

Right?

Justin Esgar (15:10):

Yeah. I also like SaneBox sane later. Mm-hmm. I use their SaneBox. what I, I have, I'm looking right now, I have sane later and SANE Black Hole because I get so much LinkedIn email and it doesn't matter how anytime you unsubscribe from LinkedIn, they'll just get you back. So all of that goes into the black hole. It never hits. What I like about SANE later is that you tie it to your Google or you tie it to your office so it scans it before it hits the inbox. So my iPhone, depending on, depending on the second, it hits nine times outta 10. I never even see it in the inbox.

Shawn Lemon (15:44):

That's

Justin Esgar (15:44):

Right. Once in a while it shows up and then it goes. Now the thing for, for me, and I, I love what you're getting at it, Sean, about the labeling and putting them in one folder. The thing for me and the reason, and I get into a fight with a lot of people about why I still use the Mac mail program and the, the, my issue, and this is we'll have this as another topic, is that I check three email accounts and when I'm on, if I'm using Gmail web interface, I can't cross the streams for folders, right? So typically if I'm getting an email about ACEs to my virtual email, I put that in my ACEs folder. I let MacMail figure out what to do with Google and it works. Yeah. But I can't do that from Google Direct, which is the one issue I have. So Google, if you're listening, please fix that for me.

Shawn Lemon (16:27):

Yeah, that'd be great. I use Spark instead of Apple mail 'cause I get the templates in there. Sno Abilities. There's actually a pretty cool app to check out for I'll check that one out. an email.

Justin Esgar (16:38):

See even on, even on our own show, Eric, I'm getting tips like it's my own therapy for my company. 'cause I need to go check out this, this Spark mail. The the whole thing though, with the filing, I don't like, I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you talk and, and what you're saying makes absolute sense. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, when I get to zero inbox, I will post that on LinkedIn and Facebook all the time. <laugh> 'cause it's hardly ever for me, the the, but like I know that I have this virtual computers folder and people who are on YouTube looking at me, I'm looking at my computer right now. 'cause my monitor I have in this Virgin computer folder, 131,000 messages. Yeah. Right. I know. 'cause I can search it, but yet I still have a folder for my house and I'm a folder for everything else. And I'm a folder for family. Not that I can't search, I feel like, and maybe it's just me and you can tell me I'm wrong, I'm fine letting people do that like I'm already putting that first filter on my search by having those folders and doing that. 'cause if I'm looking for something from, you know, my mother, it's most likely in my family folder. I don't need to search my entire index. I'm already giving a subset and like that's why I do it. but you know, your, your mileage may vary. So,

Eric Anthony (18:09):

So I get that right. But sure, then you have the problem of misfiling, right? What you dragged and dropped it into the wrong folder. Yeah. And I think that's where you can get into trouble, especially with just the enormous amount of stuff, data that we have, emails, files, whatever, and the ease of which it is to drag and drop over the wrong folder and how fast we're trying to do it.

Shawn Lemon (18:42):

Yeah.

Justin Esgar (18:42):

Yeah. That's one thing.

Shawn Lemon (18:45):

 another part of that is what is in this email that you need to go back and find. So when you get a resource,

(18:59):

Isn't there a place for that in, in your filing system? So should we turn that email into a P D F? Does this email need to be linked to and put in your Asana, your project management? Does it actually need to be forwarded to your ticketing system? So there's, the way we think about email is email is a place to communicate. It's not a place to store things and file them. It happens. And they built us tools to be able to file things away. And it's helpful to have that for the communication aspect of it. But a lot of times it's like there's a resource in here or it's related to a specific project. So that's why the travel is there. But often, like someone sending me a contract and it's over email, I'm gonna download it, it goes into my filing system, and then I'm archiving the email.

(19:48):

So I wanna get all of that stuff outta here. I need to get it into my to-do list. I need to take, or yeah, maybe I don't even need to afford it to my to-do list. I just need to say, remember to send mom the card or grandma the card or whatever it is. That piece of information doesn't need to belong in email. And so I want to use it as little as possible because my filing system is where, well, that's my main filing cabinet where everything should go. So if I get something really important in email, it, it probably belongs somewhere else permanently. I don't like storing things permanently in email so that if you know, the email is deleted or something was misfiled or whatever, I can get it because I don't, I also, if I'm looking for something for a client and I got a lot going on and I wanna go to the client folder, I don't want to open my email and then be exposed to all of these other requests and then I forget what I'm doing, or now I'm having resist doing all of these other things when and forget what I was doing.

(20:52):

How often does that happen when you open up Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever, you go there for a purpose and then all of a sudden you're like, what am I doing here? You know, that same thing happens to me in email if I'm not careful. And that's why I love Sandbox. Get it out of my sight.

Justin Esgar (21:08):

I'm sure I can delete all of the forwards from my mother-in-law who are like famous Jewish people. Like I don't need those anymore because I'm never gonna reference those again. Sean, unfortunately, we're a little short on time. I would love to have you come back. and maybe we can do on the next call, we can do like a live rip apart of somebody's data. If you're willing to have Sean look at your data, go to atb link slash podcast, register to be a guest. We'll have you on the show. And if you're willing to show, you know, you can come on the show whether you want Sean to rip apart your data or not, we want you on the show. And then of course, you know, you can reach out to Sean himself. Sean, where can where can people find you online? Up friend,

Shawn Lemon (21:47):

The digital organizer.com/all things msp. I have a little download for you, some, some fun stuff

Justin Esgar (21:53):

To I'll have, I have free

Shawn Lemon (21:54):

Stuff to help you out.

Justin Esgar (21:56):

Free stuff for the listeners. You guys are in for a tree today. Who knew that was gonna be happening, I think No. And of course

Eric Anthony (22:02):

I'll put that in the description. The show notes. All the things.

Justin Esgar (22:06):

All the things in all things M s P. That's a perfect wrap. <laugh>, don't forget to check us out on all of your favorite podcast apps. Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Google I think on one episode I said Ya Mama's podcast, I still hold true that that's something that should exist. Follow us at youtube.com/at all things msp. Find us. Our main information is at Facebook groups facebook.com/group/all things msp. That's where you can find out more information about this show. Find out about Sean, find out about our Eric's live streams and all the other stuff that we're gonna be doing. We have so much coming soon. thanks for watching everybody. That's it for us. Bye.