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[00:00:07] Do you ever think about where the people are in the world that are listening or watching us?
[00:00:18] Um, no, not really.
[00:00:20] Because like there's somebody, I'm stealing this from someone else's podcast, but like there's probably an MSP in England or France or Australia or New Zealand or Japan or whatever.
[00:00:34] That's like listening to us, I would say right now, but that's impossible because we're streaming.
[00:00:42] But they could be listening to a past episode right now, right?
[00:00:44] Right.
[00:00:47] It, for the last couple of days, and last week was the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, for those who can't say it.
[00:00:56] By the way, anecdote, my favorite thing about the holidays around this time is Jon Stewart years ago did this joke about that he loves watching like Aryan newscasters try to pronounce Jewish holidays.
[00:01:08] Like, and for our Jewish friends celebrating Rosh Hashanah Gielala.
[00:01:16] Like, that's okay anyway.
[00:01:18] Anyway, so with it being the New Year, I was having a conversation with Michelle about the fact that like, I'm coming to grips with the fact that there's just so many places in the world that I have never been.
[00:01:29] Not that I can go to everywhere, right?
[00:01:31] Because I'm really thinking about how many countries there are and plenty of them are war-torn and whatever.
[00:01:37] But just so many places that I haven't been that like, you tell people like, you're like, oh, I'm worldly, I'm cultured because I've been to like Europe once or twice or whatever.
[00:01:47] But like, and I'm like, you ever think about this before?
[00:01:51] And she goes, no, shut up, we're praying.
[00:01:52] And that was the end of the conversation, but like, it's been rattling in my brain a little bit, this ideal of like, just how vast everything is and how big this spinning rock of a world that we live on.
[00:02:10] And it's just been getting to me a little bit.
[00:02:13] Yeah.
[00:02:13] And, you know, it's funny because it is big and we are still separated by a lot of things, even though the internet and communications have brought things closer together.
[00:02:26] It's still very interesting how much local culture influences your day to day and makes it so much different from even, you know, the US to the UK is still very, very different.
[00:02:41] The US to Canada and we're next door neighbors, right?
[00:02:45] So it's interesting to see the world come together, but also see how those just little day to day culture differences make us unique and different.
[00:02:57] I do like this one.
[00:03:00] Speaking of the difference between US and UK, you know, and I'll bring this to MSP stuff.
[00:03:05] Our good friend, Pete Matheson, right, who was an old MSP.
[00:03:09] Now he does videos about videos.
[00:03:12] You know, we talked a while back during ACES virtual.
[00:03:17] So sometime in the last verse.
[00:03:19] And he had made a comment that he had a, he had a, I think it was like a 15 person company and their top line revenue was 1 million.
[00:03:27] And I was like, that seems wrong.
[00:03:31] Cause like, how do you have that many employees?
[00:03:34] But it's because like, if you think about like pay scales are different there and other things and cost of living.
[00:03:42] And you can legit, I mean, I guess he, he ran a legit business, you know, at a million and had that many employees.
[00:03:52] Whereas here, a million dollars in top line revenue is like five or six employees.
[00:04:04] Maybe more.
[00:04:05] I mean, yes, ideally I agree with you.
[00:04:09] The way the numbers work out.
[00:04:11] You're correct.
[00:04:12] Now we are talking what it's been five years, I think since Pete sold.
[00:04:17] So inflation makes a difference.
[00:04:20] Sure.
[00:04:21] And depending on what the exchange rate was back then, you're really probably talking about somewhere between 1.3 and 1.5 in US dollars.
[00:04:33] Yes.
[00:04:34] But there's also cost of living, you know, the, there, you know, things, things are, the prices of things are like an apartment in New York city versus an apartment in Kent.
[00:04:47] Vastly different.
[00:04:48] So like, I'm not saying we couldn't do it, but like when I first heard it, I was very much taken aback.
[00:04:53] And I was like, there's so much out there that is just like, I'm sure there's MSPs in South Africa.
[00:05:03] Right?
[00:05:04] Yeah.
[00:05:05] Lots of them actually.
[00:05:08] What do you, what are you guys doing?
[00:05:11] Rick, call us up.
[00:05:12] What are you up to?
[00:05:14] What's, what's it like?
[00:05:15] Like, I really like want to understand what it's like being an MSP outside of the United States.
[00:05:25] And like, I have friends, like I have friends, my friend Fred, who's in France and, and, and my friend Mike Thompson, who's in Australia.
[00:05:32] Um, but like, I really want to know, like the, the, the supreme differences between the two, between it being a US MSP versus a, a non-US MSP.
[00:05:45] Is this still the cold opening or did we jump into an episode with that intro accidentally?
[00:05:52] You know what?
[00:05:53] There's nothing to say that we can't use that for the cold opening and discuss it in more detail in a real episode.
[00:05:59] Coming up after this.
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[00:06:37] What's up everybody?
[00:06:38] Welcome to the All Things MSP Podcast.
[00:06:40] I'm your host, Justin Esker.
[00:06:41] With me always is my good friend, podcast producer extraordinaire, Mr. Eric Anthony.
[00:06:46] So we started talking during the cold open about MSPs around the world.
[00:06:51] And Eric and I took a pause in the video, if you can't tell.
[00:06:54] You know, it's called editing.
[00:06:56] And we decided, hey, this isn't the greatest time to have this conversation because we should really bring you in, the audience.
[00:07:03] So if you are someone who is not in the United States and listens to the show and wants to be on a panel episode,
[00:07:11] reach out to Eric in the Facebook group, facebook.com slash groups slash all things MSP, which you should know about already.
[00:07:20] Duh.
[00:07:20] Because you're watching the show.
[00:07:22] Because you're watching.
[00:07:22] You found us.
[00:07:23] You found us probably from that.
[00:07:27] And reach out to Eric.
[00:07:28] Eric and we're going to set up a panel show in a couple weeks with people from outside of the U.S.
[00:07:34] Because I want to know.
[00:07:35] I really do.
[00:07:35] I'm interested in this.
[00:07:36] But for right now, we have from the group.
[00:07:48] From the group this week, Dan Schultz writes,
[00:07:51] So what do you put on your business cards?
[00:07:54] I'm making some new cards.
[00:07:55] And I'm thinking about what I want on them.
[00:07:57] Anyone have any cool ideas?
[00:07:58] Now, I have a lot to say about this.
[00:08:01] I bet you do.
[00:08:02] I have an anecdote about this.
[00:08:04] I want to just share this anecdote with you.
[00:08:07] So back in the day, 2008, when I was fired from the company and I started working on my own,
[00:08:13] I had a trip that was in between.
[00:08:15] And I printed these paper business cards.
[00:08:18] And when I came back from my trip, I called my old, old boss.
[00:08:22] He got me in touch with some new client who needed a hard drive installed.
[00:08:25] And I go to their office and I gave the girl there my business card.
[00:08:30] And she looked at me and she's like,
[00:08:31] Wow, these are crappy.
[00:08:34] And it was nine in the morning.
[00:08:35] The dude was already late.
[00:08:37] It's now 9.15 just before this girl showed up.
[00:08:40] I'm like, what is going on here?
[00:08:41] And I give her my business cards.
[00:08:43] And I'm like, okay, this is already strike two for this business.
[00:08:45] And it turns out the reason she thought they were crappy was the company was a print company.
[00:08:50] They actually made business cards as a living and did stationery and all these things.
[00:08:56] And so I ended up working on this particular person's computer.
[00:09:03] I replaced the hard drive.
[00:09:04] I copied the data over.
[00:09:05] I was there for a little bit.
[00:09:06] Just doing my thing.
[00:09:10] And we were talking the whole time.
[00:09:12] And I made some comment like, you know, don't stalk me on Facebook or something like that, whatever.
[00:09:17] And they reached out to me on Facebook.
[00:09:20] And I traded them business cards for dinner.
[00:09:23] And that person is Michelle, my wife.
[00:09:26] Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:09:28] Now, I have to ask this.
[00:09:29] Were they the ones you print yourself and have had the perforated edges?
[00:09:35] Yes.
[00:09:36] Yes.
[00:09:36] And no business card was the same.
[00:09:38] Like the lines were like slightly off from one another as they printed.
[00:09:42] Yeah.
[00:09:42] HP ink chip printer.
[00:09:44] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:09:45] So I've since had the best business cards in the Apple consulting arena consistently because I was with her for so long.
[00:09:54] But let's go back to the question here where Dan writes, which is, you know, what do you put in your business card?
[00:09:59] And truth be told, who uses business cards in 2024?
[00:10:05] Like I get the reason for them.
[00:10:07] I know you do.
[00:10:08] I get the reason.
[00:10:09] I still have business cards and I do drop them from time to time.
[00:10:13] But I was only using business cards as a marketing piece.
[00:10:18] Like for a while when I had Autrive, the software company that made some iPad, which is just Virtua backwards if you pay attention.
[00:10:25] I had a two-sided business card.
[00:10:27] So you saw Virtua Autrive.
[00:10:29] It like had a cool effect to it.
[00:10:32] Now we just get our business cards at Moo.com.
[00:10:34] I mean, Michelle still designed something really nice, fun, super clean, whatever.
[00:10:38] But like 99% of business cards end up in the trash, even if you're going to like networking meetings, in my opinion.
[00:10:44] So you want something cool in your business card?
[00:10:47] You want it to stand out?
[00:10:48] Don't do a business card.
[00:10:49] Do something else.
[00:10:50] Or pull a Danny Ocean and have just your name with like an embossed like border around it like he does in the movies.
[00:11:01] So slick.
[00:11:03] Yeah.
[00:11:05] I have an opinion.
[00:11:07] Go for it.
[00:11:08] Of course you do.
[00:11:08] Go for it.
[00:11:11] So it's weird, right?
[00:11:12] Because we know that business cards are not as relevant as they used to because we have so many other ways to collect contact information.
[00:11:21] We have so many other ways to connect with people.
[00:11:24] Like you can connect with pretty much anybody in your industry via LinkedIn, right?
[00:11:28] So you don't necessarily need that contact information the same way you used to when business cards originated.
[00:11:37] Now, that's not to say that they don't have a purpose.
[00:11:41] And they do have a purpose in my opinion.
[00:11:44] And this is especially important for this industry because we do like to do trade shows, right?
[00:11:50] And so I think that business cards at trade shows are still relevant.
[00:11:56] And here's why, especially having been on both sides, right?
[00:12:00] Because when I get a business card from somebody, it's not about me having business cards.
[00:12:05] It's about somebody else having business cards because I can take their business card.
[00:12:09] And first of all, I have all their information, which is more than what I can get from LinkedIn.
[00:12:14] But also, if they've done it right, according to Carl Palachuk's rules, they've actually left the back non-glossy and relatively blank so that I can write notes on it.
[00:12:27] So that when I go back and I'm reaching out to people who asked me to reach out to them, I have my notes as to what we talked about, what they were looking for, all of those kinds of things.
[00:12:41] So I think for the people who use them correctly, I think that it's still a good idea.
[00:12:48] And I know that people are going to go, well, what about the electronic business cards, the NFC cards that you can do now?
[00:12:56] You would not believe the number of people at an IT conference who will not scan an NFC card because they don't know where it goes.
[00:13:05] It's just like scanning a QR code.
[00:13:08] No, I agree with that.
[00:13:09] I thought you were going to say with the trade show thing that it's good to have business cards because you want to put them in the fishbowl and maybe win some swag or something.
[00:13:17] Well, there's that too.
[00:13:19] But by the way, if you're a vendor and you do have a fishbowl for business cards, make sure that you have blank printed cards there so that people can fill them out and drop it into the fishbowl if they don't carry their own business cards.
[00:13:33] Yeah.
[00:13:34] I think if you want to do something that's different, like I've tried a lot of different methods of business cards.
[00:13:40] I've even done like the metal, the actual metal ones that have like die cut or embossed or press and all these other things.
[00:13:53] You have to really think about what your purpose of using those business cards is for.
[00:13:56] Are you looking to get new business?
[00:13:58] Do you need something that's going to impress people?
[00:14:00] Or are you using it for communication purposes like you were talking about, you know, leaving it with vendors and things like that?
[00:14:05] And if it's the former and you're trying to impress people, you got to do something that's going to stand out, that's going to make them remember you.
[00:14:12] But it has to be relevant to what you're doing.
[00:14:14] You know, I remember seeing a business card.
[00:14:16] I had this idea for a business card a while back.
[00:14:19] And then I saw I was trying to find something online that would work where like it was going to be for capitalize on your idea.
[00:14:26] So I wanted to have a business card with a little LED light in it that when you squeeze the business card, the little light bulb over the person's head would light up.
[00:14:33] You know, something like that, which is expensive AF, but like has a difference than just a regular business card.
[00:14:41] The things that really also stand out for business cards are a different shape.
[00:14:46] You know, some people do the square ones, some people do the oval ones, the thickness of the card and the quality of that embossing, which is kind of important as well.
[00:14:55] And while our new cards aren't embossed, they do.
[00:14:59] I do pick out the thicker card stock from Mu.
[00:15:03] It gives it a different feel and it makes it stand out compared to all the other, you know, single sheet business cards are.
[00:15:10] So I think there's a lot of stuff you can do.
[00:15:12] As for what are you putting on your business cards?
[00:15:14] Your name and your email and your phone number.
[00:15:17] And if anything, anything else is, you know, extra.
[00:15:21] As long as you have that, you're good.
[00:15:22] I think everything else is sprinkles.
[00:15:26] Yeah.
[00:15:26] I think you just have to decide what your business card is for and then make a business card that accomplishes that goal.
[00:15:34] Yeah.
[00:15:35] Or have two.
[00:15:36] You know, business cards are cheap.
[00:15:38] Make a business card for vendors and a business card for clients.
[00:15:42] Yeah.
[00:15:43] Absolutely true.
[00:15:44] They are too cheap not to do that.
[00:15:46] Even you want to take it a step further, Dan?
[00:15:48] If you go the double business card route, have the business card say, this business card is for vendors.
[00:15:55] This way they know.
[00:15:56] And then leave your phone number off.
[00:15:57] It's kind of like a little bit of a sting.
[00:15:58] It's a little stingy.
[00:15:59] I like it, but it kind of works.
[00:16:02] Oh, and use an email address to get a direct request.
[00:16:05] Pam.
[00:16:08] I'm going to get blacklisted by vendors for saying that.
[00:16:13] But anyway, yeah.
[00:16:14] I mean, you know, it's what?
[00:16:16] It's $30 for $500.
[00:16:18] I mean, yeah.
[00:16:20] Don't not print two different kinds of cards if you're dealing with two different purposes for those cards.
[00:16:28] Well, Dan, thanks so much for writing in.
[00:16:29] If you want to be from the group, check us out at facebook.com slash groups slash all things MSP.
[00:16:34] Join the group.
[00:16:35] Ask your question.
[00:16:36] And maybe next time you can be on our show.
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[00:17:06] I've been noticing a trend lately where people in our industry try to just solve the problem and walk away.
[00:17:16] Because we don't have a – I think generally speaking, MSPs don't have a really good metric other than how many tickets did you close.
[00:17:24] So like you want to close as many tickets as possible.
[00:17:26] You solve the problem and you walk away.
[00:17:28] What's funny about this is that that is not the question – that is not solving the problem in the form of the question that I ask when I interview potential new employees.
[00:17:41] So we've talked about this before, I think, where I will say to a potential new employee, hey, it's Friday night.
[00:17:48] The mood is right.
[00:18:06] The mood is right.
[00:18:20] The mood is right.
[00:18:20] Is it the printer have ink?
[00:18:22] Does the printer have paper?
[00:18:24] Do you get an error?
[00:18:25] What's the error say?
[00:18:26] Things like that.
[00:18:27] Versus the answer of, can you email me the document and I will get you the document before you get on the plane.
[00:18:35] Right.
[00:18:37] We've talked about that before.
[00:18:38] And so I think that there is a huge uptick in the detailed technical fixes and not enough happening in the consultative side of things, which is why I think so many – why I think our – well, number one, I think it's because of how our industry works.
[00:19:01] But I think that's why we're seeing turnover a lot with MSPs because an MSP that's too technical focused is going to lose customers because they're not helping them grow or actually solve their pain points, which is a more holistic company-wide problem or something to that effect.
[00:19:21] All right, go.
[00:19:23] You know, I've had discussions with a lot of people about this type of dynamic, right?
[00:19:30] And we are in kind of a pivot point, I think, in the IT services industry where some of what we do has become a commodity.
[00:19:42] And a lot of people are very happy delivering those commodity services.
[00:19:47] And I am not going to label either of these things good or bad, okay?
[00:19:53] Because I think it depends on what you want to do and what the audience you serve needs.
[00:19:59] Because I think there are certain businesses who are just looking to outsource their IT.
[00:20:06] Okay, that's it.
[00:20:07] They don't want anything else from you.
[00:20:09] And so I think there are customers who want that.
[00:20:12] So there need to be MSPs who serve that, right?
[00:20:16] Yep.
[00:20:16] However, I think there's also a growing need or desire from other types of clients or clients who have evolved in a different direction that want their IT department to solve business problems.
[00:20:35] They want their IT consultant to bring things to the table that are not just fixing computers and making sure they can print.
[00:20:45] Yeah.
[00:20:45] And that's where I think this conversation gets really interesting because you have two different...
[00:20:52] You have one group of people, MSPs, going off in two different directions.
[00:20:57] And I don't think either one is wrong.
[00:21:00] I think ultimately business outcomes have the opportunity to be more profitable.
[00:21:09] But I don't think one is necessarily...
[00:21:13] It's not good versus bad.
[00:21:15] No, it's not good versus bad.
[00:21:17] You're right.
[00:21:18] But I think our listeners know I'm a major growth mindset kind of person.
[00:21:23] Listen, I'm not of the fix-it only mentality.
[00:21:30] Despite the fact that I can sit on tier one on a regular day and bang out 20 tickets in a row without a problem, right?
[00:21:38] I've conquered that skill.
[00:21:39] That doesn't grow my business.
[00:21:41] There are things that we can do and offer.
[00:21:45] So here's a great example.
[00:21:47] I'll use this as an example.
[00:21:48] We have a client that we put into a MDR suck solution.
[00:22:00] And we noticed that the vulnerabilities that were showing up in the vulnerability management were only on the PCs in the organization.
[00:22:12] The organization is one-third Mac, two-thirds PC.
[00:22:15] And we only do their Macs.
[00:22:18] And I act as like a semi-fractional CTO.
[00:22:22] The director of IT doesn't want me to be called a CTO because then he thinks I'm his boss.
[00:22:25] Whatever.
[00:22:26] Don't matter.
[00:22:27] We talk about politics on a different...
[00:22:29] All things MS politics is a different show.
[00:22:34] And I was like, listen.
[00:22:36] Well, for starters, I got them into the SOC solution because they needed to move their cybersecurity needle.
[00:22:41] So I did all the research and I helped them with all that stuff.
[00:22:43] And then we got them enrolled for all their PCs.
[00:22:47] And then finally, I was like, listen, we should enroll the Macs also, but not with the software we already have.
[00:22:52] We needed to get them endpoint defender for Mac to get their vulnerabilities to show up in Microsoft, to show up in this SOC solution.
[00:22:58] And now that we've done that and we've coordinated those efforts, now we're on to the how do we solve all those vulnerabilities conversation.
[00:23:09] And so that's a much bigger, broader conversation that if you take the left path, you can do with your clients and you can solve those bigger pain points.
[00:23:21] Because these are business problems.
[00:23:23] Because the organization wants to say to their stakeholders that they're secure and that they're doing these things.
[00:23:33] Those are business problems.
[00:23:34] Now, granted, a lot of those business problems are going to be fixed with technical solutions.
[00:23:38] Does everybody have the latest version of Google Chrome?
[00:23:41] They do at 2.37 p.m. on a Wednesday, but at 2.38 when a new version comes off the ninth time this week, who knows, right?
[00:23:51] So, you know, and that's an interesting part of it.
[00:23:54] And as I was kind of going over the stuff that I, you know, just spewed out a few minutes ago, even if you're going towards business outcomes, you still have to do the technical part.
[00:24:06] So does somebody who wants to focus on business outcomes and consulting, but don't want to relegate the day-to-day IT to somebody else, they still have to maintain.
[00:24:22] It's almost like two businesses in one now, right?
[00:24:25] Because if you don't want somebody coming in behind you and possibly stealing that client, you need to handle all of it.
[00:24:33] So how do you balance out the commodity side of IT with the business outcome side of IT?
[00:24:39] And I think that's the question that a lot of people are probably wrestling with right now.
[00:24:45] I can tell you that from my perspective, even when I'm going to bring this back to when I was a one, maybe two-person company.
[00:24:54] This way it's a fair setup, right?
[00:24:59] The commodity always led to the other pieces.
[00:25:02] And having the ability to have your eyes open to see those other pieces is a major thing.
[00:25:09] Because so many times I will see somebody go in, fix something, and ow, they're done.
[00:25:14] Done.
[00:25:15] And I'm like, you missed a golden opportunity here to do more, right?
[00:25:21] You missed what they were actually asking.
[00:25:25] Case in point, I had a client who they have a signature application and the signature application was being wonky.
[00:25:36] And so my opportunity here was to either go in and fix the signature application or come up with a new solution for them that made it a more holistic, better experience for the customer.
[00:25:50] And so I went that route saying, like, listen, this went wonky.
[00:25:54] We can try to fix it and finagle it and hobble it, but there's a good chance it's going to go wonky again.
[00:26:02] Or we can look at a better solution that will provide better security, better management, better whatever.
[00:26:11] However, the prices are about the same, so I'm not really worried about that.
[00:26:16] But I'm solving a bigger problem here holistically because if the main software is messing up and your staff are all angry about it, grumble, grumble, grumble.
[00:26:27] Here's a new holistic solution.
[00:26:29] Yay!
[00:26:29] Yay!
[00:26:31] Yeah.
[00:26:32] But a lot of people want to do that.
[00:26:33] A lot of people would just try to fix the wonk, stick a napkin under the table, right?
[00:26:38] Balance it out.
[00:26:41] That doesn't solve the – that doesn't necessarily solve the pain point.
[00:26:46] You've solved the symptoms.
[00:26:50] You haven't solved the source problem.
[00:26:54] Yeah.
[00:26:54] It's kind of like back in the old days, okay?
[00:26:58] No, here we go.
[00:27:00] Back when I was running BreakFix that I was kind of hybriding into, right?
[00:27:09] We had an RMM tool.
[00:27:10] We were doing monitoring, right?
[00:27:13] And there's a difference, and I think this is exactly the same as what you're talking about.
[00:27:18] It just is a little bit different because it deals with hardware, right?
[00:27:22] People's hard drives would start filling up.
[00:27:25] And, you know, we would go in, we'd delete their trash, we'd do all the different things to try and free up hard drive space.
[00:27:32] And then when we got really savvy about it, we wrote an automation to do all that stuff automatically as soon as the alert was triggered from the RMM.
[00:27:41] But that really doesn't solve the problem permanently, right?
[00:27:46] The permanent solution is they need a larger hard drive.
[00:27:50] Yeah.
[00:27:51] And all of this, we're kind of going back to the whole proactive versus reactive thing.
[00:27:57] But it's a different conversation of proactive, right?
[00:28:00] We're not being proactive to prevent a technical problem necessarily.
[00:28:06] We're actually being proactive to try and drive revenue and profits in the business.
[00:28:13] And that's where this kind of proactive nature, if you naturally did that as an IT-led MSP, I think you'll probably start gravitating to it as a business outcome MSP.
[00:28:30] And I don't know why I'm doing air quotes because people watching the podcast will not be able to hear those.
[00:28:36] Yeah, but people on YouTube get to watch you do this all day.
[00:28:40] You're right.
[00:28:43] It's funny because as you were starting to say, like, we had an RMM immediately in my head.
[00:28:47] I was like, he's going to mention a hard drive and getting a bigger hard drive.
[00:28:52] The business aspect of the – let's go back to the signature one, for example.
[00:28:57] The company I'm talking about is in media.
[00:29:01] And so if their signature is wonky, it comes across that way to their clients and then diminishes their value.
[00:29:12] Well, why would I work with a company whose signature looks all weird, right?
[00:29:17] That kind of thing.
[00:29:20] So solving the business side of it, which then becomes a revenue driver for the company, also keeps the employees happy so they don't have to keep grumbling.
[00:29:31] It's the same thing with the hard drive example because I think in the hard drive example, if someone's doing work and their hard drive keeps filling up and they can't work because every time they try to do something,
[00:29:40] they can't work because they don't have to keep the hard drive, they can't work because they don't have to keep the hard drive.
[00:29:45] As simple as something as that is, the amount of weight you've lifted off of that customer's chest to make their lives easier, that's where we need to be.
[00:30:03] Too many people.
[00:30:04] And I get – I understand tier one's job is like solve it, move on, get it done with because you're the first line of defense.
[00:30:12] But I think we need to make sure that our tier ones understand the broader aspect of it, even if they're just going to fix the thing, the tech.
[00:30:25] I still think they need to understand the broader aspect of it and see the – try to teach them how to see the 30,000-foot overview to like lead them in the right direction.
[00:30:34] Yes and no.
[00:30:37] And here's my thought on this, is that I want my tier one being as efficient as possible.
[00:30:44] So I actually think that it's leadership's job in the MSP to go back and look for trends in those tickets.
[00:30:55] Fair.
[00:30:55] To find the things that you can now provide a long-term solution to rather than just a quick fix.
[00:31:03] Now, the way I say that or the reason I say that is because the client doesn't want to have to wait for a fix.
[00:31:11] So I want tier one –
[00:31:12] Sure.
[00:31:13] To get them through their situation as quickly as possible.
[00:31:16] But I also don't want that to come up again.
[00:31:19] And so the only way to prevent it is to see a trend and recognize it and do something about it.
[00:31:27] That's fine.
[00:31:28] And I was trying to lead that way and maybe I was off base a little bit.
[00:31:32] Like the tier one should fix the problem 100%, but also be able to recognize there might be something here and either like kick it up to someone else and say, hey, I think there's something bigger happening or whatever it is.
[00:31:46] But understanding that – this is why years ago somebody had taught me the idea around when someone has a problem, you ask, what are you expecting to happen?
[00:32:02] Because if you ask the customer, what are you expecting to happen?
[00:32:06] You're solving not a technical problem but like a mental problem.
[00:32:11] Because if the customer believes that it should be doing X when in reality it's going to do Y, you can either force it to do X and be done or you can explain why it's doing Y and be done or a mix of both.
[00:32:25] Or even better, hey, it doesn't do X.
[00:32:28] It does Y.
[00:32:29] Let's see if we can get it – instead of forcing it to do X, let's look for a better solution.
[00:32:34] This way it always does X the way you want it to do it, right?
[00:32:37] There's so many different ways to like cut through that.
[00:32:42] But I think those – the ones who want to be those business-focused MSPs really need to start leaning into that a little bit harder because that is a growth – that is a potential for growth.
[00:32:57] Yeah, and I think you're exactly right, by the way.
[00:33:02] It does need to be recognized, right?
[00:33:06] And I think the biggest takeaway from that last segment was the fact that they really need – it's about expectations, right?
[00:33:19] You said you used the word expectations.
[00:33:21] What do they expect?
[00:33:23] And there's a huge gap a lot of times between the technical solution because the technician will automatically drive to the quickest solution.
[00:33:35] And that quickest solution may not be what the client expects.
[00:33:42] So it should be part of tier one because that's where most triage happens to find out what the client expects as a resolution.
[00:33:50] Now, I will sometimes say that the client is wrong here.
[00:33:55] And I'll go back to the old Henry Ford quote.
[00:33:58] 100%.
[00:34:00] I'll go back to the Henry Ford quote and said, you know, if we gave the customers what they wanted, we just would have given them a faster horse.
[00:34:09] Now, of course, we didn't know how to do that back then.
[00:34:11] But anyway, we couldn't clone and manipulate DNA.
[00:34:15] Inject the horse with steroids.
[00:34:16] Exactly.
[00:34:19] But there is a lot to that statement about setting expectations or getting the right expectations up front because, like, we started this whole conversation with the question you ask in interviews, right?
[00:34:32] Where client calls up, he's trying to print a presentation so that he can mark it up on the airplane.
[00:34:37] With his favorite red pen.
[00:34:39] Right.
[00:34:39] The solution, the solution is not to get him printing.
[00:34:44] The solution is to put a hard copy of the presentation in his hands before he gets on the plane.
[00:34:51] And that is, I think, an important part of how you train your tier one reps, right?
[00:35:01] Is to make sure that they're not, they don't have that tunnel vision that so often can happen.
[00:35:09] That's exactly right.
[00:35:10] I think that's, I don't want to add to that because that's exactly right.
[00:35:13] I was going to go there anyway.
[00:35:14] I think that's a great way to end the conversation about this.
[00:35:18] I will say one last piece, though, which is, I know he said it's his favorite red pen, but I have this really awesome Muji red pen.
[00:35:26] And I would give this with his presentation and be like, just try it because I want to just, you know why?
[00:35:32] Because I want to give that little Muji at the end of it.
[00:35:35] It's like when you, you know, you give somebody a bag of candy and they're just like, oh, they think you're amazing.
[00:35:40] Have a good flight.
[00:35:42] When you come back, you don't have to worry about this problem ever again.
[00:35:44] So like that, I agree.
[00:35:46] And you did it right.
[00:35:48] Yeah.
[00:35:50] I think I'm good here.
[00:35:52] I'm just going to walk off cam.
[00:35:57] Oh, yeah.
[00:35:59] I mean, I think that this is an evolving thing.
[00:36:03] I think it's interesting, though.
[00:36:05] We did dive into some things that I hadn't thought of before.
[00:36:08] And I really think that there's an opportunity here to look at what are some of the tactical things we can do as MSPs to drive our organizations to providing business outcomes rather than just commoditized IT.
[00:36:24] And I think that we covered some of those things today.
[00:36:27] We talked about how to address tier one.
[00:36:30] We talked about how to look at what your client's expectations may be.
[00:36:35] And yeah.
[00:36:36] So hopefully you got something out of this.
[00:36:40] If you think you're a business-oriented MSP or an IT-focused MSP, whichever, leave us a comment in facebook.com slash group slash allthingsmsp when this episode airs.
[00:36:50] Put in the comment what kind of – are you business-oriented or are you fix-oriented?
[00:36:54] Again, neither is wrong.
[00:36:56] Both are right.
[00:36:57] Just let us know.
[00:36:58] So we want to know who's out there and who's listening to this and what kind of focus you have so we can make sure that our content that we're coming up with is great and helps you on the regular.
[00:37:08] Or if you hate us, tell us that too because I want to know.
[00:37:11] Follow us at facebook.com slash group slash allthingsmsp.
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[00:37:23] You've heard this all.
[00:37:24] I don't need to repeat this.
[00:37:25] Don't forget also to call your mom and say hi.
[00:37:28] That's Eric.
[00:37:29] I'm Justin.
[00:37:30] Bye.
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