Technical Debt: Hidden MSP Challenges - EP63

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[00:00:31] Yep, and can't figure out what to do which is dumb because the it's it's rear wheel drive

[00:00:37] Turn it to 11

[00:00:39] We're wheel drive wheel wheel drive

[00:00:42] rear wheel

[00:00:44] Drive

[00:00:46] It's been a long week and I just had lunch and my mouth is a little dry

[00:00:52] and I'm not doing me myself any good by drinking iced tea and

[00:00:58] bubbly water on the pod I

[00:01:02] Got yelled at for calling at the pod by the way really while we were

[00:01:07] While we were in Utah

[00:01:09] Both my wife and Melanie Curtis who has been on the show before was like stop calling at the pod

[00:01:15] That's not cool, and I was like fine from now on I'll just call it the cast and they were like that's better

[00:01:20] And I was like way worse

[00:01:24] Ah

[00:01:26] So you survived aces

[00:01:30] been an ear near near near

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[00:02:27] Go to a tmsp link forward slash Eureka to find out more you'll try that question again

[00:02:34] So you survived aces I did I did for the

[00:02:39] For whatever this goes out last week was the official aces conference and I did survive and

[00:02:45] However, the big boxes I ship all of my equipment in

[00:02:49] Did not I got one back and the wheel has been jammed into the pelican box

[00:02:53] So now I have to go get a new pelican box for next year

[00:02:56] It's not a real pelican box either so it doesn't really matter

[00:02:59] So these things are cheap and they think these things have lasted

[00:03:02] Nine years so worth it. Yeah

[00:03:11] Huh, oh yeah the signs are seven other side the signs also broke this year

[00:03:15] It's funny like everyone's like we're so glad to be back in person. I'm like everything's falling apart

[00:03:21] No, it was awesome. I did survive you ties and then the next couple days

[00:03:25] I took a you know a day or two off while we were there

[00:03:28] Michelle me going a hike

[00:03:30] It wasn't really a hike. It was a trail around a lake. I know you in a lake

[00:03:33] it was a trail around a creek and

[00:03:35] I

[00:03:36] Complained about it the whole time because I just felt like annoying her and so every time I talked about it for the rest

[00:03:41] Of the weekend. I was like, yeah Michelle made me go on a hike and then you hear from the background of any phone call

[00:03:45] It was a trail like it was just her

[00:03:50] It was her getting mad

[00:03:55] But it was great there was

[00:03:57] Amazing speakers and and great sponsors and great come at a great community and like the feedback we've gotten from people

[00:04:04] Has been you know an outpouring of greatness and which is annoying because I want to know the things I did wrong

[00:04:11] So I can fix it for next time. I get it and I appreciate it. Don't get me wrong

[00:04:16] I appreciate everyone being like oh my god Justin

[00:04:18] You did so much work and thank you so much for bringing the band back together or whatever

[00:04:21] I need to know what didn't work so I can do it so I can fix it for next time

[00:04:26] And I never okay, I never really get that from anyone. So on my to-do list

[00:04:31] I'm I'm putting down send out a survey. I sent out a survey. Oh

[00:04:38] You did. Mm-hmm

[00:04:41] Yeah, I send an exit survey the end of the show and all of it's like you're amazing Justin and I'm like this really

[00:04:47] helps like my mental state

[00:04:51] You're asking the wrong questions then

[00:04:54] No, I asked I the question I asked was do you think I did amazing

[00:05:05] Still does cough this coughing break brought to you by

[00:05:12] Liquid death hashtag not a sponsor for those who didn't come to Asis conference when Eric does get around to posing some pictures

[00:05:18] I actually went in because we do it at a wedding venue and

[00:05:21] I went I bought soda at Walmart the night before which was great because

[00:05:26] Fred

[00:05:27] Barry air who's now in the all things MSP Facebook group. Thanks for joining. Yes

[00:05:32] We he went out to dinner with myself and Fred from my team and another I tie last the night before and we took

[00:05:38] Him to Walmart. He'd never been to Walmart before

[00:05:41] We took him to Walmart because we were going to buy sodas for the show

[00:05:45] The reason I'm bringing this up is because I also bought a case of liquid death for just you and me

[00:05:49] Right, no one I even told them I go unless it's Eric Anthony or me

[00:05:54] No one else can have these so we had a case of liquid death while we were there

[00:05:56] So so Fred had never been to Walmart before and he's like, what is this place?

[00:06:00] And we're like you can get anything here and he's like anything we're like anything

[00:06:03] and so he's like walking around like in amazement and

[00:06:06] The best part was like we found one of those, you know, those like squeaky chicken toys

[00:06:11] Right. Yep. I go. Hey, have you ever seen one of these before and he's like no

[00:06:14] So I squeezed it and I put it in his hand closed and I go don't let go

[00:06:19] And he opens his hand a little bit and you just hear

[00:06:22] And he realizes what it is. So he like slowly and you're gonna have to go to youtube.com slash

[00:06:28] At all things MSP to see what I'm doing here

[00:06:31] But he puts it down slowly in a basket

[00:06:34] And then he and then he just walked he opens his hand

[00:06:37] He walks away and the four of us are walking away. You're just here

[00:06:39] And they're just we're just cracking up laughing at a Walmart

[00:06:42] And he's like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited

[00:06:45] And they're just we're just cracking up laughing at a Walmart and he's like this is amazing and I was like yeah

[00:06:50] Don't bring this to France. This isn't you know, they don't need this in the French Alps

[00:06:56] Yeah, all in all pretty good like I said thanks to you and the all things MSP community for sponsoring the

[00:07:03] The dinner we had a delish. I can't believe I get to say I had a really good pizza in Utah

[00:07:09] Yeah, I know it was it was really good. And of course, it was more than just pizza

[00:07:13] We had the appetizers. Those were a nice touch as well. And then dessert I didn't have any dessert because I had it was gelato

[00:07:19] I actually got them to do like a chocolate strawberry mix for me and what it someone who was there?

[00:07:24] Mr. Andy Espo out of Austin was like this is the best gelato I've ever had and I was like you need to go to

[00:07:29] Italy son, um

[00:07:31] But it was it was really good. No, don't get me wrong set if you're in Utah

[00:07:36] Set the bello pizza on Pierpont Avenue or 200 or 300. I don't know where I was everything was a circle there

[00:07:43] but

[00:07:45] Yeah, really good really really solid food

[00:07:48] You know, it's weird as the maps of Utah are different or I was talking to you about this

[00:07:51] like the map of Utah does not do it justice because

[00:07:57] When I'm on the phone with people planning they were like, oh, yeah

[00:08:00] The hotel is like right behind us like we're right around the corner

[00:08:03] And it wasn't he was like a 20-minute walk, right and everything but the problem is every time I would drive

[00:08:08] It would take me even longer because one we went to Starbucks every morning and two it's all one-way streets

[00:08:14] So then I go look up the dinner place and like the dinner place on the map looked like it was five blocks away

[00:08:18] It was literally across the street from where we were

[00:08:21] right

[00:08:23] so there's a lot of like you guys

[00:08:26] Yeah, and I mean Justin

[00:08:29] I will say the hotel you picked was a beautiful hotel there and it was a gigantic room

[00:08:36] for

[00:08:37] $35 a night. Okay. Yeah, you're in the were you in the tower or were you in the I was not in the tower

[00:08:42] I was in the motel II part. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and the room the room was as big as

[00:08:49] the I think it was junior suite that I had at the Bellagio in

[00:08:54] In Las Vegas one time Bellagio now or Bellagio when it first opened and it was good. Well

[00:09:01] I think was in the last two years and it was in a tower on the conference side. Oh, okay

[00:09:08] But I know better I know better than to do this I

[00:09:13] Know better than to book in the conference hotel as a Marriott fanboy

[00:09:18] No

[00:09:20] Yeah, especially in this case where the venue was not in the hotel and there was an AC and a residence in and like

[00:09:27] Three other Marriott properties closer

[00:09:30] Than the hotel that you picked and I'm not dissing on your hotel because the problem was the map not you know

[00:09:37] The problem and also the hood so this is my prom for the hotel

[00:09:42] You know when you plan these things from so far in advance and you're not actually there

[00:09:47] It's hard to tell but the hotel Wi-Fi was absolute garbage and the place we stayed in was called the little America

[00:09:54] The Wi-Fi name was little America guest

[00:09:57] But the T was capitalized and there was no password and there was no captive and there was no like it didn't answer

[00:10:02] a room number or anything and

[00:10:04] I called down to the front desk being like what's your Wi-Fi and they're like it's called little America guest and I was like

[00:10:10] With a capital T and they're like there's no tea in little America

[00:10:15] And I was like first of her duties in little secondly. There's a T in the word guest which is what I'm questioning and

[00:10:21] And she was like yeah, I guess and I was like are you not on the Wi-Fi

[00:10:25] She's like no and like I was like this just looks and like and then I saw because I happen to be on the 17th

[00:10:31] floor in the main tower and

[00:10:32] Like there were other Wi-Fi is like

[00:10:35] 1721 be dot living room or like whatever and I was like this is a horrible setup and they can definitely use an MSP to fix

[00:10:43] us so the last day before we were leaving on Saturday, I wanted to grab some stuff to watch on for the airplane and

[00:10:51] I noticed under the desk in the room. There was like a little Aruba

[00:10:58] Wi-Fi access point and

[00:11:00] It wasn't attached to the wall properly like the lock screw broke I

[00:11:05] Promise you I didn't break it

[00:11:06] It was already broken and it was connected to a polycom phone

[00:11:09] So out of the Aruba was a four wire connected to some sort of

[00:11:14] Adapter to an eight wire to make this polycom work and I was like, okay

[00:11:17] Well this has internet. Let me figure it out. So I plugged my laptop into all the other ports on the Aruba

[00:11:23] Did not get an IP address took the Aruba off the wall

[00:11:27] Took the main wire that was going into the room but out plugged my laptop directly into that did not get an IP address

[00:11:33] I was like, I don't know what magic bullshit is making this thing work right now

[00:11:38] Either either they have it like Mac address locked or something so that way only the phone network work

[00:11:44] Well, the one thing I didn't try was actually plugging into the back of the phone to see if I can get something but

[00:11:50] Yeah, their Wi-Fi was like three meg down. I

[00:11:54] Was and people I did get complaints about that from people like the Wi-Fi in the hotel was crappy and I'm like

[00:11:59] I don't know if you know this. I don't own the hotel

[00:12:05] Yeah, but it was I mean it was sketchy from a security standpoint as well, right

[00:12:10] I noticed that I didn't use the Wi-Fi at all while I was there

[00:12:15] You know my phone hotspots pretty well, so I didn't have to worry about it

[00:12:19] Plus I wasn't uploading a podcast or anything. So, you know, no 20 gig files

[00:12:25] Being uploaded these podcasts are not 20 gigs

[00:12:29] I beg to differ net mount maybe not 20 most of them are probably not 20

[00:12:38] Before you answer that if you let's pick a poll if you're listening to this post on the Facebook group Facebook.com such groups

[00:12:44] I shall think that must be how big of a file are

[00:12:48] Eric's podcasts

[00:12:52] We'll see what happen and keep in mind size matters

[00:12:57] Okay

[00:12:58] No, no, don't tell anyone

[00:13:01] They have to wait till next week. They have to wait till next week. Well, I think we have an interesting

[00:13:05] from the group

[00:13:09] Episode or segment for today that was that you freezing to do them?

[00:13:20] Yeah, this is a good one from David Lee

[00:13:23] This is a county agency near me that was ransomware recently that sucks

[00:13:28] They are still working through that process

[00:13:30] They do not have IT and the head of the agency has been trying to look after the IT needs

[00:13:35] Then there's a county agency without IT

[00:13:38] My question is how eager would you be to take on a customer that is just coming out of a cyber incident?

[00:13:43] I feel like now being easy sales time since there's an obvious need

[00:13:47] This could also be a good opportunity for my smaller but growing MSP

[00:13:50] I'm just slightly concerned about coming into an org that was just breached and what can blow up on me in two months later

[00:13:57] If that makes sense isn't the time to swoop in and take advantage of the obvious need and the answer

[00:14:03] The answer David is yes

[00:14:07] Because you have them on what's called the emotional tilt right my in my opinion

[00:14:14] You 100% can go in you have to be careful obviously and what I would do is

[00:14:21] Go through what caused the initial ransomware now you can go in and fortify your base level stuff

[00:14:28] So everyone have to factor do we have a secondary?

[00:14:30] You know is it not done through taxes through OTP is the firewall up to date to the network needs to be replaced

[00:14:35] You know do some basic stuff just to get them like to a degree and then kind of really dive into

[00:14:42] why the

[00:14:45] Why they got breached in the first place?

[00:14:47] Because you and you need to understand what caused that in order to be able to figure out

[00:14:53] What to make sure you block in the future now if this was a

[00:15:00] Fishing attempt that went through and that's what caused the breach great

[00:15:04] You know to get them, you know set up with you know know before or ID agent and get them

[00:15:12] Fishing training and schedule lunch and learns with them things like that

[00:15:16] Is it a network breach? Okay?

[00:15:18] Whatever you put in that you just put into like get them

[00:15:20] Baselined out you need to up that up and put in a secondary a more powerful firewall with with

[00:15:27] IDs and IDP or and all those other things

[00:15:29] But this is an easy one especially because like I said earlier

[00:15:32] They're on the emotional tilt right sales are made on the emotional level of things

[00:15:38] When you when I do my sales process, and we talked about this before in another episode

[00:15:42] My three calls are

[00:15:44] Nice to meet you tell me everything that's going wrong. I want to hear all of your pain

[00:15:48] I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna fix it and I'm gonna sticker shock you and the third one is like I can solve it

[00:15:53] And it's gonna be less than what I priced you at because you're going to be emotional about it

[00:15:57] That's what I'm talking about here

[00:15:59] You could absolutely get in on this and do something and Eric's giving me a look like he's gonna tell me I'm wrong

[00:16:06] No, the funny thing here is you are such the visionary

[00:16:10] Such the integrator so I look at this from a completely different point of view

[00:16:15] I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I look at this. No, you're

[00:16:20] Different point of view no, no, no, you're saying what you're saying is and I'm gonna be you for a second

[00:16:25] I'm not saying you're wrong Justin. I'm only saying that I'm right

[00:16:30] No, I'm literally I mean, yes, I've done that before and we will continue to do that because it makes it interesting but

[00:16:37] No, so I actually commented on this post okay, and I said yes number one they need help

[00:16:43] But you need to qualify them. Okay

[00:16:47] Do they have the funding to purchase your offering?

[00:16:51] Do they fit in your ideal client profile? And by the way, there's a sneaky piece

[00:16:54] That's it not in the original post but it's down in the comments that makes it this very specific

[00:17:01] You may not be able to do this customer

[00:17:04] By the way, and I'll reveal that in just a second

[00:17:08] And then you know, do they have a plan to get clean already?

[00:17:13] Or is that something that you're offering so a lot of different things

[00:17:17] From my point of view that you need to look at kind of discovery questions that you need to ask

[00:17:23] In addition to the visionary

[00:17:25] Justin just you know wanting to go out and get that revenue, which I think is a good thing

[00:17:30] Now there is something that the original poster reveals further down in the comments

[00:17:34] However, that makes this a very tricky situation

[00:17:37] And that is this is not just a county agency

[00:17:41] This is a police department

[00:17:43] And so now you have seegis compliance

[00:17:47] That you have to worry about so if you don't know seegis compliance and you can't

[00:17:53] Get somebody to do that part for you

[00:17:56] I would pass on this opportunity. It's it's a good opportunity

[00:18:00] But if you're not equipped to handle seegis compliance

[00:18:05] This is not going to be a good fit for you and that's 100% fair, right? Obviously

[00:18:10] I feel like I got I got I got catfished here because I

[00:18:13] Asked all of the facts

[00:18:17] This is why I said i'm not right but uh, i'm not wrong but you're definitely right

[00:18:21] This is why I said i'm not right but uh, i'm not wrong but you're definitely right. Yes

[00:18:27] Any sort of compliance for any agency whether it's the police department seegis or anything like yes

[00:18:33] If you are not capable of handling that you have to say I can only get you so far

[00:18:37] And then I gotta walk away or you gotta walk away from the very beginning

[00:18:40] I I again being the visionary would then look at

[00:18:44] What do I need to do to become seegis compliant or who can I bring in from?

[00:18:48] To loris or sandler and partners to help a lot of this but you know, I don't know what

[00:18:53] David's company size is or anything about his business

[00:18:55] So it's a little tough

[00:18:56] But if if it's any of the one or two person, you know msp's that usually are listening to this show

[00:19:02] Most likely you are not going to understand or be able to get behind seegis compliance unless that is your

[00:19:09] Bread and butter of a customer. There are definitely

[00:19:12] Small msp's that only do HIPAA, you know or things like that

[00:19:15] So there might be a couple of you out there that that do i'm assuming that's

[00:19:20] Criminal justice information systems is that what seegis stands for I believe that's correct

[00:19:25] I know you're not going on it. I just know it exists. I never would have heard this until four and a half seconds ago

[00:19:30] So I was set up for failure from the beginning

[00:19:33] but

[00:19:34] Yeah, it's you know

[00:19:36] That is I would say that is a a bit of a wrinkle to say the least which is what you wrote

[00:19:42] Um, is that a whole new wrinkle? It's more than a wrinkle. That is a that is a

[00:19:46] Origamically folded towel on a cruise ship level of wrinkle

[00:19:51] um

[00:19:52] To get that done, but david if you are

[00:19:55] if you are

[00:19:57] Capable of doing it and you have a team that is big enough

[00:20:00] And you don't think that you'll get arrested the next time they get ransomed

[00:20:06] Go for it, man

[00:20:07] Yeah, awesome. Well, that's from the group

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[00:21:00] Okay, um, so one of the things I did pick up while I was at aces and this is something we're going to talk

[00:21:04] About today is uh technical debt. I want to get into this a little bit

[00:21:09] And one of the things now that aces is over and I've completely cleared that off of my plate until october

[00:21:15] That I want to talk one of the things we're doing at virtua

[00:21:18] is

[00:21:20] Yesterday we had all of the directors plus red on a call

[00:21:24] to

[00:21:26] Just make a list of all the things that we have to audit

[00:21:33] And or fix

[00:21:35] And so I don't have a good marketing name, but we're calling it fix the uck ups june

[00:21:41] This way you don't have to believe me

[00:21:46] And

[00:21:48] The reason that I want to do this

[00:21:50] actually comes

[00:21:52] From not only not only from aces itself from like two weeks before aces

[00:21:57] when I actually

[00:21:59] had adam boris who was on our show a couple weeks ago from uh

[00:22:04] Business vista business partners had him do a valuation of my company and

[00:22:11] I know what my top line revenue is and when I got the valuation I gotta say I was a little pissed off

[00:22:17] Because it was much lower than I had expected it to be all things considered and so

[00:22:24] We went through all of the numbers to figure out why it was where it was and a lot of it is

[00:22:31] That we have to get our cost of goods down, right?

[00:22:34] We're spending too much and we're not making enough profit

[00:22:37] On a lot of items

[00:22:39] And i'm including in here the 48 cents you get for every microsoft license. So one of the things that we had looked at

[00:22:46] Was we were spending

[00:22:48] You know a certain amount of money with packs eight every month from microsoft licenses

[00:22:52] And when I look at what we build out there was only like a 500 difference

[00:22:56] Over the course of four months

[00:22:58] There's a mistake there now it could have been a mistake on how I pulled that report because we're

[00:23:02] Also still in the transition of moving everything into halo and getting out of fresh books

[00:23:06] And we have we have a piece of data here and a piece of data there and a piece of data here

[00:23:09] And some of our data is still in utah and whatever

[00:23:13] But figuring that stuff out and so so that's why I wanted to I set my team I said listen

[00:23:17] This is what we're going to do in june

[00:23:20] Now that i'm back and so yesterday we made the list of all the things we're going to fix

[00:23:24] This is what I call technical debt because in there is

[00:23:29] you know

[00:23:30] Biggering out software we're paying for that. We don't use figuring out licenses that we're paying for that

[00:23:35] We're not billing for

[00:23:36] Finding um machines in our mzm software that we're paying for that shouldn't that have been off for a year

[00:23:43] You know these are the things that would happen is I had an old employee who used to use the word cruft a lot

[00:23:49] I don't know if it's actually word or not

[00:23:51] Um

[00:23:52] But it's what happens is like we we as msp's were always in the now

[00:23:57] Right. There's always something on fire today

[00:23:59] I got a client who's like none of our microsoft apps work why and i'm like, I don't know

[00:24:03] I'll figure it out or like, you know, whatever

[00:24:06] I don't which means if i'm working on that i'm not working on trying to find those

[00:24:10] 10 machines that i'm getting billed because whatever it's 20 bucks. It's not a big deal, right?

[00:24:15] But like over time it adds up and those 10 machines become 20 become 30 become 100

[00:24:20] Not really that bad, but still it can add up or I found that

[00:24:25] We had a client who we only sell them three dropbox licenses and we bill them once a year

[00:24:30] We don't hear from them ever

[00:24:32] We haven't built them in two years. We've paid for their dropbox licenses

[00:24:36] Now it was 1800 bucks over those two years and we caught it now and at least got 900 of it

[00:24:42] But still like that's a stupid mistake which really questions why anyone on the show listens to me

[00:24:47] um

[00:24:49] But for the record i'm doing a presentation on imposter syndrome coming up at macadmins penn state university in july

[00:24:55] And i'm basically just showing them clips from the show being like, yeah, I don't do that either. Um

[00:25:01] But those are the kinds of things these things that we have to work through and

[00:25:05] I think it's very important especially

[00:25:07] Even in a one two-person business to like you got to break some time away to like work on this technical debt and get

[00:25:15] rid of it

[00:25:16] Yep, and by the way when you suggested this topic today

[00:25:20] I of course did some research because that's what I do. No, no, no

[00:25:23] I didn't I didn't think about it this day. I thought about this weeks ago. We plan in advance. Don't let them know

[00:25:28] Don't let them know

[00:25:30] You were thinking about this for weeks in advance

[00:25:33] Don't don't pull behind the hurt. Don't don't show them behind the curtain. Yeah. Anyway, you said sorry you did your research

[00:25:41] And you know there's

[00:25:43] Because technical debt a lot of people think of

[00:25:47] Vendors and not necessarily msp's and they think of code debt, which of course

[00:25:53] Does apply to some msp's especially if you write your own automations you write your own scripts, right?

[00:25:58] So you could have technical debt there

[00:26:00] But actually more interesting than that as I was thinking about it as I was doing some research

[00:26:06] I really came up with four

[00:26:09] That

[00:26:10] Your standard msp regardless of size is probably going to have some of this

[00:26:17] In side of their business. So one is infrastructure debt. That's the obvious one

[00:26:22] That's the old servers the old software the old code

[00:26:26] All of the what we would traditionally think of as technical debt

[00:26:31] second is process debt because

[00:26:35] Things change over time. So if you're not

[00:26:38] Systematically changing your processes to keep up with

[00:26:42] What's changing you may have some process debt?

[00:26:46] And then the third one is security debt, which is obviously a big one now and not one that we had to worry about

[00:26:52] Until the last five seven years ten years. It's been a long time

[00:26:57] um

[00:26:58] You know, so that's gotten old

[00:27:00] I know I have right

[00:27:02] And then the last one that I think everybody kind of has is knowledge debt and this is the one that really surprised me and made me think

[00:27:10] um

[00:27:11] Because how many of us really do?

[00:27:14] Give our technicians time

[00:27:17] And even our non-technician people time to get better at their jobs and learn the things that have changed

[00:27:25] specific to their role

[00:27:27] in these jobs

[00:27:28] So yeah a lot more than just what we would think of as technical debt

[00:27:35] the

[00:27:36] We went through our list yesterday and it was like

[00:27:41] Make sure that like all the backblaze accounts are correct and remove people who don't need to be there

[00:27:46] But on the other side, it's also like clean up our clickup

[00:27:49] You know write a couple sops that have been missing for a while

[00:27:52] So like I think all this stuff that the the big four that you've talked about actually one of our big ones

[00:27:58] And and this is um

[00:28:00] Don't I don't need anyone being a keyboard warrior over this one towards me

[00:28:03] One of the big ones that we have not done is like the microsoft security score inside of your office 365

[00:28:10] Portal, I was actually just talking to my friend tim pierson about this because he's a he's more of a microsoft shop

[00:28:15] Uh when it comes to email, he's still a mac guy, um than us. We're more google

[00:28:20] but

[00:28:21] That microsoft security score like the default is like what?

[00:28:25] 26 like and I went I just looked at a random client and it was like, oh it's

[00:28:30] 29 I'm like, oh we should probably look at these things and like these are small things to do

[00:28:35] To just bang them out get them done

[00:28:38] And we're we're being proactive in that regard

[00:28:42] I mean we're a little behind the time on it

[00:28:44] but it is being proactive because the clients don't know about it and if we're going to enable something like

[00:28:51] Turn on the banner that says this is from an outside organization

[00:28:54] All we have to do is send an email and say like this has been turned on for you. You're welcome

[00:28:57] You know those kinds of things

[00:28:59] um

[00:29:01] Yeah, I think there's a lot there's a lot to be said in terms of this in terms of debt and and

[00:29:08] You know

[00:29:10] Despite what uh

[00:29:12] Rich dad poor dad says there really is no such thing as good debt

[00:29:17] Right like that debt is bad

[00:29:19] and

[00:29:21] especially financial debt the amount of times i've seen that dude on instagram and tiktok being like

[00:29:25] Debt is good. I pay for cars with debt. I'm like no, no you don't

[00:29:29] um

[00:29:31] What's his name? Uh

[00:29:34] Robert kiyosaki kawasaki somewhere. Yeah

[00:29:37] Screw that guy. Anyway, uh

[00:29:40] The point here is that the debt inside your business is bad, right?

[00:29:43] so

[00:29:45] If you look at

[00:29:48] All you have to look at this

[00:29:51] In in such a like a it's weird because you have to look at this from a macro and a micro at the same time

[00:29:56] right

[00:29:57] because like

[00:29:59] The the the that 30 000 view that macro view is like, okay

[00:30:04] Where are all of the pieces that we need to deal with infrastructure security documentation on this?

[00:30:11] And then you immediately have to go right down to like the edius bidius micro and be like, okay

[00:30:16] Well, we're missing an slp on how to configure

[00:30:20] You know microsoft defender for endpoint on machines within this one client who have

[00:30:26] These weird security settings, you know because they're part of a mega corporation or something like that and

[00:30:34] The the biggest part about all this is that it takes time it takes things out you have to like you have

[00:30:39] To carve the time and so for us

[00:30:42] um

[00:30:43] You know, i've always as much as I crap on on rich our poor dad

[00:30:47] I don't really crap a whole lot enough on gary vaynerchuk

[00:30:50] But one of the things that he's always said is like as an owner the buck stops with you, right?

[00:30:55] Like you got to eat dirt

[00:30:57] I don't really know how much dirt he's eating at this point. But whatever

[00:31:01] But I still do and I know I do right so

[00:31:05] I told my team look we've made this list

[00:31:08] I'm now going to review it and write out what I think as the owner should be these things that we're looking for

[00:31:14] And then we're gonna review that as a team and then i'm gonna go and do this

[00:31:18] Because I have time i'm not taking any tickets for the month of june

[00:31:22] I have a team for that. I need to resolve that in my head and say like

[00:31:26] Anyone who texts me I go send a ticket like stop bothering me. I can't help you

[00:31:30] I have a team for that

[00:31:32] And i'm gonna go and be like i'm gonna write a piece of documentation today

[00:31:35] So i'm giving up like one bullshit task for another bullshit task, but

[00:31:41] Writing that documentation

[00:31:43] Despite it being an annoyance at the time is going to

[00:31:47] Far exceed my company's like move my company's needle much further than it would be if I was helping that one client

[00:31:55] At that exact moment in time with whatever fire when I have an entire team that i'm paying for

[00:32:01] That can handle that part

[00:32:03] Right, so there's a lot of

[00:32:08] Figuring out

[00:32:11] Whose time on your team is the most valuable for each job and whilst yes, maybe

[00:32:18] my

[00:32:20] Dollar value doesn't equate to writing a documentation about the security settings of this one individual client or whatever

[00:32:27] I know for a fact that

[00:32:29] In the long run that one little document that I write because it's in my head and no one else's will allow my team to

[00:32:36] Far surpass anything later

[00:32:39] Okay. Well

[00:32:40] Two things I want to say about that

[00:32:42] Number one, thank you for alienating two of our you know, most famous podcast listeners. Um, Robert

[00:32:49] And uh, Harry vanerchuck. Hey vanerchuck if you do listen hit me up justin

[00:32:54] Um, no, but seriously it's not just your value in terms of

[00:33:02] The time it takes you to do those things, right?

[00:33:05] It's what value are you adding to the business long term by getting those things done?

[00:33:10] The other piece that I want to say about that is for you to create

[00:33:16] the

[00:33:17] Standard operating procedures those process documents, whatever you want to call them

[00:33:21] You are embedding your culture

[00:33:24] The way you would do things into those processes and for a lot of us

[00:33:29] I think that's why we got into this in the first place

[00:33:32] Right? Yeah, because we had a certain way of doing it people liked that way that we were doing it

[00:33:38] And so we got this client base that has now grown where we needed to hire more people

[00:33:44] but if we don't

[00:33:46] Learn how to replicate that process across our people

[00:33:49] The way we did it then it's gonna lose that specialness

[00:33:53] I think there's a

[00:33:55] I agree with you because actually i'm thinking about a client who wrote to me today who was like, um

[00:34:00] They did a they did a review of all their vendors and for virtual they were like we love virtual

[00:34:05] However, one of the things that they have a problem with us is that like it depends on who they get will be able to

[00:34:09] resolve resolve their answers faster

[00:34:12] And like my answer to that was like not everybody's me and I can't make it up

[00:34:18] And I can't make everybody me and the no amount of documentation is going to make anyone me god forbid

[00:34:24] There's another me out there

[00:34:26] Side note, there is another Justin Escar. He lives in texas. Um

[00:34:31] He's like

[00:34:32] I don't know

[00:34:33] Nine years younger than maybe he doesn't live with his parents anymore

[00:34:36] But he's like nine or ten years younger than I am if you are in it and your name is Justin Escar

[00:34:40] And you lived in texas

[00:34:41] Give me a call. Um

[00:34:44] But the the idea of getting as much of that documented as possible getting as much of that and we've talked about this

[00:34:51] It's the end of the earth like use your psa to automate things. The problem is

[00:34:55] Everyone comes to you and goes like well, how do I do that?

[00:34:57] It's like well, it's different for everybody, right?

[00:34:59] So you need to figure out your you need to figure out your procedures and it becomes this cyclical cycle

[00:35:04] Which a lot of us are tired of like that rat race bullshit

[00:35:07] Like we're tired of like the cyclical cycle of like what do I need to do?

[00:35:10] I need to do this in order to do that and then that thing could do this then we can make it automated

[00:35:13] But I can't automate unless like all right, we get it. So like in this case in this case

[00:35:19] The the cleanup task is going to get us on the right path because I think if we if we can get to the clean

[00:35:28] As an old cfo friend of mine used to say he uses he's like baseline all the time if we get to that baseline

[00:35:35] Everything can come from that because if I get everyone to that baseline

[00:35:37] I say this is the sop for doing xyz and we get that to that baseline any sop that needs to come

[00:35:42] After that is a lot easier to write than writing from below the line, you know what I mean?

[00:35:47] Right. So a lot of that is going into things

[00:35:51] For what we're trying to do. I'm actually going to switch over

[00:35:54] Uh, I I don't really like click up. I know people do but i'm gonna go into our click up

[00:35:59] And i'm gonna find audit plan

[00:36:03] While you're doing that

[00:36:04] I want to mention a resource for people because it's something that I

[00:36:08] Listened to recently. I'm actually working through it as one of my study books right now

[00:36:13] Called buy back your time

[00:36:15] and

[00:36:16] Essential for an entrepreneur to figure out

[00:36:20] Who and how to replace?

[00:36:23] yourself with

[00:36:25] And I don't know if any of that made sense, but

[00:36:28] You need to figure out who's going to do the work next and what work you should be handing off

[00:36:33] And this book gives you a solid process for doing that. Yeah

[00:36:39] All right, so here's our here's our big ones, uh

[00:36:43] Wrap up our d mark d kim audit. So we've talked about this before that we sold

[00:36:48] Back in the beginning of this calendar year 2024 people on spf d kim d mark, right?

[00:36:54] Totally makes sense and we made money on it

[00:36:56] And if you haven't done that yet, you didn't listen to that episode go back listen learn how to make a couple bucks

[00:37:00] On this however, the follow-up to that is who did who said no or didn't respond

[00:37:06] And it's been it'll be six months soon

[00:37:10] Since we did that

[00:37:12] Let's go back to all of those kinds and say hey

[00:37:15] Did you add any new services and make that the new operating procedure?

[00:37:18] To say every six months we go back and say did you add any new services but can make

[00:37:22] We want to make sure those records are correct still

[00:37:25] Yeah

[00:37:26] That's a simple that's a simple technical debt piece of cleaning up the past

[00:37:31] Making sure we have everyone up to date and then proceeding for the future by following a certain set of rules

[00:37:36] um

[00:37:39] Our

[00:37:40] Billing so we're still building out our halo. I I feel like with halo

[00:37:44] You're always building it out. Like there's never

[00:37:47] No, I don't I don't I don't think I've found anyone who's just like i've built my halo and i'm done

[00:37:52] Um, well, I don't think that's specific to halo. I think that is generically applicable across psa's

[00:38:00] having only ever used halo i'll take your word for it because I don't I don't have the

[00:38:04] The scope to talk about it

[00:38:05] But like we put in we finally got all of our connectors to like packs eight ingram micro

[00:38:10] Which by the way is called cloud blue. Um

[00:38:14] And a couple other vendors in there and all of a sudden we got all of our all of our subscriptions are pulled in

[00:38:19] Which is awesome. That's what halo should do. I should be able to bill easily for my microsoft subscriptions

[00:38:23] What we don't have in there is our costs it only has the extended price out for like what we charge people

[00:38:29] So we have to go back one of the big things I told our billing side of people team is to go in and go

[00:38:34] Put in all the costs so we can legitimately figure out how much money we're making

[00:38:39] On each one of these customers one of the awesome things about halo is right there when I sign in I got a widget

[00:38:45] top five winners top five losers

[00:38:48] Meaning how much i'm making per client and how much i'm losing per client based on tickets

[00:38:52] Well that information doesn't work if i'm not

[00:38:55] properly logging time for tickets which we have to do

[00:38:59] And properly putting in the cost for things so we can calculate that math for me

[00:39:03] Right. So my number one winner is somebody who bought

[00:39:06] $50,000 of the hardware

[00:39:08] But the cost shows up as zero in halo

[00:39:12] So like it thinks we made $50,000 profit which is not true

[00:39:16] We made like $4,000 profit because ubiquity is never in stock at ingram

[00:39:22] Which side note, I don't know if anyone from the dnh company listens to this podcast

[00:39:26] But let me tell you something about your ubiquity pricing because it is

[00:39:30] Messed up if the device says it's 499

[00:39:34] On ubiquity on ubiquity's website. You don't get to call yourself a wholesaler and sell it to me for

[00:39:38] 507 dollars

[00:39:40] That's not how wholesale works. Okay guys, that's ripping people off

[00:39:45] This is why you have stuff in stock. No one buys it from you because your pricing is on the wrong side of wrong

[00:39:51] On the right side of wrong, whatever I rant over

[00:39:56] Another easy one that is like easy to bang out and super important for your team

[00:40:01] We have it in halo, but you can have it anywhere is your supplier list

[00:40:05] And your contacts because vendors are always turning over, you know how many new

[00:40:09] kaseya reps i've had since january so like

[00:40:13] We keep track of who who the current hotness is in halo. So if we have a problem, we know who to call and

[00:40:21] Every I was gonna make a ghostbuster joke, but I couldn't pull it out. Um

[00:40:25] The new movie was pretty good. Uh

[00:40:27] But it's in our halo and we have to keep that updated

[00:40:30] And again sop comes down to is if you find a new rep put it in and mark the other one is dead

[00:40:36] Dead to the world or whatever. So like those kinds of things are in there as well

[00:40:43] Consolidate all of our dns

[00:40:45] We have domains because and this is more a me thing because we've acquired companies and you know different states and different things

[00:40:53] I have domain purchases from godaddy name.com

[00:40:56] Dot com

[00:40:57] Network solutions cloud flare and while the price is all the same like i'd rather just have it all in one place

[00:41:02] Yeah, and it's that's time right?

[00:41:04] That's just the time of like releasing and renewing and transferring tokens or whatever

[00:41:08] But like it should all be in one place instead of me

[00:41:10] Just getting random bills because the other thing is when my accountant saw because we search accountants when my accountant saw our credit card bill

[00:41:16] He just went what the hell is all of this

[00:41:18] And I was like, I actually don't I don't I don't know and that that was the wrong answer

[00:41:23] Yeah

[00:41:25] So that is fixing your technical debt

[00:41:29] Yes

[00:41:31] infrastructure debt

[00:41:34] We have a lot of clients who are still on synologies

[00:41:37] and

[00:41:39] Have distributed workforces because of covet

[00:41:42] That I think that falls into infrastructure debt trying to get them to a cloud-based solution

[00:41:48] Whether it's

[00:41:49] Google drive one drive dropbox ignite whatever like getting them off of a

[00:41:56] Physical at least five-year-old synology of this. I have one client who's on a synology

[00:42:02] When we built it out for them

[00:42:05] I mean, we're going on eight years now

[00:42:10] We built out this massive box it was huge and I had a backup and I had a secondary backup and the guys

[00:42:15] Brothers a company is which is in the midwest with their own maranke and this whole thing and

[00:42:21] And the problem that they've always had is that they have like 100 gigabytes of sorry 100 terabytes of data 100 gigabytes

[00:42:26] 100 terabytes of data and we were like this won't fit in the cloud

[00:42:32] But

[00:42:33] We finally got them to realize that like they don't need all 100 terabytes of it all the time

[00:42:38] So one of the big things and unfortunately, we have to let the owner get involved and let him clean out what he wants

[00:42:42] Let's get stuff out. Let's put stuff on the cloud. Let's shut this stuff down

[00:42:47] Problem solved right like that. I think is a big infrastructure now because

[00:42:51] you know, uh maranke will

[00:42:55] Maranke will warranty your device

[00:42:58] As long as it has an active license and it's not end of life

[00:43:01] And I don't think they've end of lifeed the mx-64

[00:43:06] Which was I think one of their first

[00:43:08] firewalls but like

[00:43:10] It's got to be coming soon

[00:43:13] right

[00:43:14] So so like getting off that equipment also, that's also another one. Also if you have sonic walls get rid of them

[00:43:20] One of the things that I was thinking of and this goes right into you know, the synology replace it with a cloud file solution

[00:43:27] Uh type of thing that you're going at

[00:43:30] Basically putting anything in the cloud

[00:43:34] Okay

[00:43:35] Not only does it give you the better scalability, right which reduces technical debt

[00:43:40] but it also

[00:43:42] Transfers a lot of the technical debt from you the msp to the vendor and that's not a bad thing

[00:43:49] Yeah, yeah for sure

[00:43:52] The thing is what the funny thing is that like if you transfer synology data to the cloud

[00:43:56] All you're doing is transferring it to someone else's synology

[00:44:02] Not necessarily, I mean unless it's backblaze and they build their own pods

[00:44:07] Um

[00:44:09] But yeah, that's that's another thing. Oh, let's talk about tools, right? Uh, we were big fans of watchman monitoring for a very long time

[00:44:17] They were recently bought by synchro msp. I think a couple uh, like maybe two years ago at this point

[00:44:23] and

[00:44:25] The the product is in like

[00:44:28] It's like in a vegetable state. It's like they're keeping it alive barely

[00:44:32] They're just releasing some simple bug fixes but word on the street is like they're gonna crash it

[00:44:37] Well, we've been paying for that for years

[00:44:40] And we've been able to replace most of the alerting from that tool with another tool that we also pay for

[00:44:46] so then

[00:44:47] Why are we paying for two tools? Let's save ourselves

[00:44:50] you know

[00:44:51] a couple shuckles and

[00:44:54] Shut it down

[00:44:55] And that's the other side of that coin, right? Yes, you're transferring the technical debt to somebody else

[00:45:01] But at the risk of now if somebody else

[00:45:05] Doesn't live up and deal with their technical debt. It becomes your problem

[00:45:10] So there is no right answer there

[00:45:13] It just depends on how you want to run your business, which is what so much of this comes down to

[00:45:19] Welcome to at msp where we don't give right or wrong answers. We just give you a couple ideas and hope for the best

[00:45:24] um

[00:45:25] the the

[00:45:30] If you're the kind of msp that that doesn't

[00:45:33] play with

[00:45:34] The big companies that have investment and you are like, no, that's not who I mean

[00:45:39] there's a couple of exceptions but like if you're like i'm going to use this like

[00:45:43] custom built thing like

[00:45:45] You need to know what you're getting into and I think that alone that answers that question. We're like because in reality

[00:45:54] Microsoft's not going away google's not going away, right? Like you you want to put stuff in one drive

[00:45:58] You want to put stuff in google drive? I think you're going to be okay. However

[00:46:02] The tool you use to back it up might get messed up because like we use back upify

[00:46:07] And then it was bought by dado and then that was bought by kaseya and now we're

[00:46:11] Stuck and there's like a major api problem with it and they won't fix it for us. Um

[00:46:17] And so now we're like, okay

[00:46:19] Well, who's who else can we go with because technically back upify which is owned by kaseya has all of this backing

[00:46:24] It's not going to go anywhere

[00:46:26] Right until kaseya kills it and moves it into some other part of their software

[00:46:31] but

[00:46:32] If we go with another company

[00:46:35] some smaller company to do email backup like

[00:46:38] Who's it going to be that's going to be as well backed financially as?

[00:46:44] Kaseya

[00:46:45] So, you know, you're you got to play the you got to play the odds a little bit

[00:46:50] Which is never which you know, the house always wins

[00:46:53] Whenever you play odds

[00:46:55] It's a it's that's I think like that's the hardest part of one of the hardest parts of doing this

[00:47:01] Yeah, no, I agree

[00:47:03] and

[00:47:04] There's a lot of examples of how that has played out in the past

[00:47:08] Uh with vendors just dropping products unexpectedly

[00:47:12] And and all these other things and and what?

[00:47:16] I mean

[00:47:17] Besides having an infinite number of backups. So you spread the risk across

[00:47:21] Different vendors which becomes costly, right?

[00:47:25] What is your answer because there is a level of risk that you need to protect yourself from

[00:47:30] And uh, you know, which again is also why you need to have good insurance

[00:47:36] I I was thinking about this like

[00:47:38] Can you imagine if like you're like i'm gonna be i'm gonna back up your email in five different places

[00:47:43] But you're gonna pay for it like the client's gonna be like no

[00:47:46] Backing up in one place. It's like well, there's risk there involved, right?

[00:47:50] um

[00:47:52] That's another one of those things where

[00:47:54] I guarantee you anyone who does email backup in any way shape or form is you're probably backing up email accounts

[00:47:58] That don't exist anymore and you're paying licenses on that. You don't even realize it because like back upify auto archives

[00:48:06] um

[00:48:07] Suspended users in google or uh, no sorry not suspended deleted users in google, but not suspended users

[00:48:14] So you're backing up an email account that is not even actually active

[00:48:19] And you're paying for a license for that

[00:48:21] Which again

[00:48:23] It's a buck 40 two dollars 50 like it's not that big of a deal

[00:48:27] But when you scale it out and you have 600 users plus to deal with

[00:48:32] You know

[00:48:33] You're gonna lose a chunk of change every year and like that going back to what are my original reason for doing this

[00:48:40] Is cutting into my business valuation. It's cutting into my margins. It's cutting into my profit

[00:48:47] I can't grow the company when i'm looking at my business

[00:48:51] losing money on

[00:48:53] wasted licenses

[00:48:55] Not billing properly

[00:48:57] All of these things my my staff not working as efficiently as possible

[00:49:01] If I can't make that stuff work internally properly and not make that profit the company's not going anywhere

[00:49:06] right because profit is what you need to grow and

[00:49:10] You know, it's not about putting the profit

[00:49:12] It's not i'm not even talking about putting into my pocket like i'm talking about literally keeping the money in the company

[00:49:16] To be able to hire another person or to actually buy another tool or to move, you know to do that stuff

[00:49:22] You have to break you have to be able to like increase that stuff and it all starts from inside. So take

[00:49:28] take

[00:49:29] you know

[00:49:30] Take a day or two and like go through your stuff internally and I talk about like taking a day or two a lot

[00:49:36] Like donate stop answering tickets hire someone answer tickets and you work on this stuff

[00:49:42] Look inwards look inwards and and see what you can fix

[00:49:46] That's cool and I want to do I want to say one thing before we kind of wrap it up here

[00:49:53] Yeah, and that is that you have technical debt, but guess what? So do your clients?

[00:49:59] And when it comes to technology specifically and that technical debt, even though it really includes a lot of different things that we've talked about

[00:50:08] That's something that you can charge them for you can charge them for managing their technical debt

[00:50:14] So look at it not just as something that's a pain in the neck for you to do

[00:50:18] But also something that you can potentially turn into a service that you can now offer to clients and actually profit from

[00:50:26] The best way to figure out their technical debt is

[00:50:29] Get some sort of shadow it monitoring going and then you could just go back to them with a list

[00:50:34] So you can actually hit them two ways

[00:50:36] You install something that does shadow it monitoring like avenon

[00:50:39] Then you go to them and say hey

[00:50:41] You have licenses for dropbox and box and one drive in google drive and sharepoint and whatever the hell the web x version is called

[00:50:48] and

[00:50:50] You don't need all this and you're spending all this money and i'm gonna save you money

[00:50:53] But i'm gonna take you do it

[00:50:54] You know what I would suggest for anyone who's questioning how to pay at a charge for technical debt

[00:50:58] Do it the same way all of those apps that like save you money on your recurring bill

[00:51:04] I'll save you money

[00:51:06] But I get a percentage of what you save

[00:51:09] And they'll be like, okay, because if you don't save them anything you don't get paid

[00:51:12] And if you get 10% and you save them a thousand bucks, that's a hundred dollars a month in your pocket

[00:51:16] You did a little bit of work

[00:51:19] So that's the only issue price it

[00:51:21] Yeah

[00:51:22] so

[00:51:22] My only issue with pricing it that way though is that you may find things that are not necessarily things they're paying for

[00:51:29] Like there may be a whole bunch of personal drop boxes or personal one drives being used in their business

[00:51:36] which doesn't

[00:51:38] Make it a financial

[00:51:41] Risk or issue for the client, but it certainly makes it a cyber security risk for the client

[00:51:48] Did you lower their premiums for their cyber insurance to get a percentage of that?

[00:51:52] Okay, you had something

[00:51:54] There's of course I do that's what I do. That's my job here as the host of the all things msp podcast

[00:51:59] Thanks for listening to another great episode follow us on all of your favorite podcasting tools lever review

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[00:52:24] That's it. That's eric. I'm justin. Bye

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