AI Promise in Business Ops: Boosting Productivity, Labor Impact, and Ethical Concerns with Colin Britton

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things we keep talking about about AI is making everybody more productive. But

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: oftentimes the conversation is about making the more junior people productive. What if

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we focused the more senior, the top people in your organization? Colin Britton from

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Device joins me. We knew one another back in the logic nowadays and he's got some ideas on the

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: AI Promise on this bonus episode of the Business of Tech.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well Colin, welcome to the show.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Good to be here. Now for listeners, you and I know one another because we work together

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: back in the logic nowadays but I want to make sure they get a good sense of your career path because

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you've been doing a lot of work that we didn't call AI at the time much more like data science,

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: machine learning but you've got a lot of experience along this line including a product

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: they may have known in logic cards but give me a little bit of your trajectory on what

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you've been doing with what we now are talking about AI but this lineage of technologies.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting. My going back I've lived in English but I've lived in the States for 30 years

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and when I came to the States I was a product manager slash sales engineer for a

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: content management company and at that time what we were doing was like

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: media assets for print right and which eventually transitioned into websites and

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: advertising but it all became about the metadata and the management of the organization

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I got into these concepts of you know unstructured data, semi-structured data

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know how can we use that to better find things, better manage things etc without having

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a kind of tightly coupled setup and so through that startup and then you know the next one

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: eventually I ended up in in the advertising space, digital ads and we built a lead generation

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: business which was the largest provider of automotive leads in the country privately held

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was all driven by data and you know before we were talking about data science

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and this kind of stuff but it was how do we collect as much information as possible to be

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: as intelligent with matching leads and understanding what's going on in the bi ecosystem

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and a team of handful of people built it and we went from nothing to the largest

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: independent provider of automotive leads in the country in 18 months and it was all data driven

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we sold it and you know I got introduced to a good friend of mine, Walter Scott who is a

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: IT CEO who's been through a number of companies and Logic now was one of those

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's like yeah so that's stuff you did for advertising, we apply it, I think we can

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: apply it to any other business and so I started down this journey of okay how do we use the exhaust

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of any given system to better understand what's going on and create better outcomes

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and as you said Logic Arts was one example of that like very early on, it was like okay

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: let's just look at all this data and say in comparison to your peers how are you doing

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in comparison to what we think is a best standard like what Dave says to do, right?

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you know how do we adjust like and recommend to you different things and so yeah did that

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I have done a decade now of IT growth stage companies, I work principally with incident

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: partners who are the growth stage fund that was behind TeamViewer, Logic Now Live Action

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: DNS Filter, Evo and now Device and again a lot of what we've done and continued to do is that same

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: thing and of course the tools get better and the capabilities get better but you know it's

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: now got proper names to it we talk about data science we talk about data engineering

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: data engineering is a first-class citizen now which it wasn't back then and yeah it's a very

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: exciting time well and that's what probably because when we were reconnected recently you

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: have this idea of the AI promise as it applies to business operations and I think it's kind of like

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the vision has crystallized a lot give me your description of what you think the AI promise is

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: right now in business ops well I you know we've often used data to reinforce and kind

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: of like to raise the bar generally but and but it's typically been at the lowest common denominator

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think the AI promise is to go the other way which is the highest common denominator

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: so in business operations you could be able to increase the productivity of your best players

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and increase the productivity of of your pool overall but from a top down perspective not a

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: bottom up right many of the tools that people produced before were about how do I just skill

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: up somebody and your best players didn't get any more productive right they would actually skip it

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and and not use it or cheat on it etc with the AI promise it starts to become the other way

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: down because the critical thinking becomes much more important when you've got AI there

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you a really quick example a friend of mine the other day who's a data scientist

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: super smart guy um he's like working on some dashboards and he's like I don't I don't have to

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: write code anymore like chat gpt writes my code and he said I don't you know you don't

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: have to learn a new language and he had one chart that he was asked to do for some data

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's like this is this is kind of like dumb but he just asked he gave us he gave a screenshot

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of the chart to chat gpt and told it to give him the python code to recreate it

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: from a screenshot it wrote the code and it's like yeah it was you know 95 percent there

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: mine a tweak and uh and it was done and and that's like you know say the critical thinking

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: around whatever I want to solve and how do I ask the AI of this is what I think becomes the

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: superpower you know he could have handed that off to a junior staff member and but the actual

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: handoff time and the effort would have been like significant right so instead he just he's got this

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: assistance AI assistant and um gets it done like that right even even kind of simple task

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's interesting because it's paralleling my own personal experience you know for

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: listeners there's some AI code now that's helping produce the show and it's not something

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that I've handed off it's that you know I can get additional uh elements of productivity

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: out of doing it myself and I like this approach of you know looking at making your better your best

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: even better to outperform but that feels hard you know how do you identify in benchmark the

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: best employees like how do you do that to then focus on the right places well I think it's um a

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: lot of it is about putting the tools in front of people and seeing how they want to engage

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: right and encouraging them so um you know we're a we're a Microsoft shop and um we're a Microsoft

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: partner uh in a number of areas so we we engage with our tool set and um you know we use Copilot

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and Copilot is a great example of where you know meetings now the the note-taking is just so much

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: better right I get a meeting summary I get action items pulled out of it I get all the context of

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: what went on even if I'm not at the meeting so the the use of those kind of tools to

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: drive kind of better action and drive better productivity is is significant

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and um I think that's like engaging with people and we're still at this stage where some people are

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: oh uh you know big brother AI is all coming up I'm like my life has been driven by data

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I'm like honestly people like get over it right you will be there it is like people

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about the the internet getting rid of newspapers right it's gonna happen right AI

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: is going to change your life so and your work and your work life in particular so kind of engage

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I think you kind of find that part of it and it's about showing people the critical thinking

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and at this stage we've got to give them better examples and show them but there's a lot of stuff

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: around um so you get a system uh select engine right and um it's incredibly powerful and you get

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you know subject matter experts who can do amazing things with it but for a lot of users going into

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it occasionally they you know it takes time to remember the great thing about AI is you can

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: very quickly and interactively um you know ask questions and say okay what's the best setting

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: for this right what's the you know what is industry standard or what is best practice

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: for this or tell me about without kind of leaving the environment the context switching part really

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of gets taken away there so I think that I think it's that kind of it is definitely a

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: mentality around it that you've got to engage and we're starting to see that more and more in

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of general IT area and particularly MSPs. Now I want to think a little bit about

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: about this as you apply this so let's say we we start getting AIs that are helping our top

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: performers be really great well then the next logical bit is that we can replicate that behavior

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't that start impacting our labor needs pretty aggressively like what's your what's

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: your take on how that plays out so I'm not going to name names but working with a MSP right now

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: they're talking about a 70 percent productivity improvement and at that level this is this

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: is role impacting right you know at 20 30 percent you're like yes I can make my people 20 30 percent

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: more effective and that's great and therefore I'll increase you know how much they can get through

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but at 70 percent your business is not growing at 70 percent right so what do you do it you know

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to have to you know resize the business or change the roles or or that kind

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of thing I think it's you know it's going to take time for people to get to it but they really are

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: going to have to think about like you know that that part of the business and the the lab we all

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: know the labor arbitrage model is a challenge right particularly in the MSP space because you

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: know margins become very fixed and there's continued price pressure on organizations so how

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you kind of balance those things in it and you yeah you're going to have to change the shape

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of the organization as this comes along but preparing for it is is equally part of it now

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you're you're a guy who spends a lot of time on operations I want to I want to throw a premise

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: at you and I want to get your reaction to it so so oftentimes when we talk about productivity

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: gains the immediate next step is is the thought of well maybe we could reduce the number of people

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm making an argument that actually what we can actually do is is also pass some of those

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: gains onto the employees as a retention element so for example when we talk about the idea of

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: moving to the four-day work week one of the ways you can do that is if everybody

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: gains a 70 boost we don't need as much physical time potentially and so we can actually make

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: the employment environment better and retain better people longer because they're getting

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: they're getting the advantage too the business gets the advantage and the employee gets the

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: advantage what's your take on that premise I am some of my favorite engineers of what I would

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: call lazy people and what I mean by that is they get things done effectively and effectively

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in you know a short amount of time and then they occupy themselves with other things

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: outside of that and it's always been one of my favorite motions which is you know

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: the engineer who is kind of it appears off to Asia for two months and you don't even realize

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: because he's still getting his work done and you know you ask for something you get it immediately

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: etc and that kind of you know different way of working now that doesn't suit some people so

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a kind of different thing but I think what we're going to see with productivity

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: gains like this is that that balance of what's required does change and as organizations we

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: can be more flexible and we can do that and I think there's a number of ways with it different

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: people have different motivations I do think that this is going to help with burnout right

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: burnout is a problem in our space and I think burnout is a bigger issue than the

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you know some of the other sides of it and it's often the

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put it there the silly mistakes right that shouldn't be made that come out of that

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that are that are impacting that you know a more productive person will will avoid

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: now I'm gonna throw it out in a broad sense because I'm not one of those people that likes

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about P do that's not the way that I think about this but I actually want to think

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: about is more like what are the what are the ethical concerns that come to mind for you

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that you think business leaders owners of you know IT services organizations and their customers

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: should be addressing like what are those ethical concerns that you think are the most important

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: oh I think there's ethics is one one part of it along with obviously security concerns

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: right and you know leakage and all of this kind of stuff I think you've got to think about

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: how you're using these tools in a way that how you're expressing exposing your business data out there

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but you shouldn't be too paranoid about it at the same at the same time right you know there's a

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a level of people are willing to post on reddit which is like the number one training

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: source for you know most of our industries AI but like they're like ah yes but I'm not gonna

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you know I'm not gonna let it read my email right you kind of got to have that that

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: level of trust in there but at the same time you know in an organization which is

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: using things like co-pilot if all of your board documents and all of your you know underlying

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: business documents are on SharePoint and it's reading them and somebody goes and asks

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what's the salary of the CEO or how many shares does so and so have or what's any

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: their co-worker salary right and and the AI can answer it that that's a challenge right so you've

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: got to have you know Microsoft's line for it is secure productivity right so it's this combination

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: of you've got to make sure your data is organized well and the tools are in place that you can

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: be productive but you've got to be doing a secure way and that's about you know the usual

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: things that we always talk about um that which is you know how your data is organized where you're

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: keeping it um and you know how your endpoints are managed and organized as well so what's a

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: what's a healthy level of paranoia in your mind like kind of what's the what's the the the

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: balance that you strike you know uh you know me I I am very forward leaning right so as

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: as a person but in my role like I'm the coo so much as I've got a product background over

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the years I've built a lot of experience with you know how to grow businesses and and that kind

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of stuff and so I'm you know very I get very paranoid around customer data and around how

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that is and the separation of concerns within that and how you kind of deal with that I

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: get pretty paranoid about financial information and and and board and board data and make sure

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that's but in terms of broad internal communication product documentation even you know architectural

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: schemas and and that kind of stuff I'm you know I'm a lot more tolerant on that area a good example

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_01]: is like often people get kind of paranoid about their their SOP2 reports and that's kind of one

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you know yes somebody could go read that and do some you know and understand your business

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know do some things from it but my argument on a lot of that is they can probably figure that

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: out like if they're coming after you they're coming after you right your SOP2 reports not

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: going to be the primary source of how they got to you some phishing attack on you know one of

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: your engineers is more likely right or or something like that so um yeah that's kind of

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: where my power in our sits with it that's a good line because because you're exactly right

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going to find the simple bit and frankly protect the simple the simple entry points and don't

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: over worry those those other ends 90% of of breaches come from a you know an endpoint but 90 plus percent

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you know it's it's here right this is where the problem is right and and these devices that we're

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: using more often than not right that's that is totally how they're going to hack us well

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Colin Britton is the chief operating officer at DeVicey focused on growth and global operational

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: scaling he's been in companies such as TeamViewer DNS filter, Devo live action and LogicNow where

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: we met which is now part of Enable. Colin thanks for joining me today. Great to join you and

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: always good to catch up. Looking to reach an audience of thousands of MSPs and IT service

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