Exploring AI, Automation, and Device Lifecycle Management in the Evolving RMM Landscape with Colin Britton

[00:00:01] We're back again for an interview here at IT Nation. I'm talking with Colin Britton, the COO of Devisee. Colin, welcome back to the show.

[00:00:10] Thank you for having me.

[00:00:11] So last we talked, we talked a ton of AI and broader stuff. I actually want to take a moment and get really sort of tactical and get a sense of, so what's Devisee up to right now? Like what does the next two or three months look like for the organization?

[00:00:23] Yeah, so we are a automation and management application that sits on top of Microsoft Intune and basically simply put an easy button for Intune.

[00:00:32] Okay.

[00:00:32] And as a platform, we're multi-tenant and we take into account a whole bunch of challenges that the MSP space has with using Intune and the Microsoft 365 platform.

[00:00:44] Now that's an, it's an interesting place for you to be as a veteran with me of an RMM company. For listeners who may not know, we were both at Logic Now together.

[00:00:56] You know, you did a lot of the stuff over on the data side and of course I was running the community efforts. Give me a little bit of your sense of the difference between then and now.

[00:01:05] Like let's sort of draw the line at 2016, at the end of Logic Now versus here we are going into 2025. Like what's the difference in the RMM landscape?

[00:01:14] Yeah. So at that time in Logic Now, we were starting to use data to infer decisions of MSPs and teach them best practice by pointing out what they have in their environment and how to infer them things that you should be doing.

[00:01:29] Yeah. And you know, some of it was, we look at it now, it's just obvious, but it was just like, Hey, you know, in that particular, you know, customer, you've got this turned off, but it's turned on in this customer. Is that how you wanted it?

[00:01:42] Or, you know, Patch Tuesday is coming up and this is how it's going to impact your X care. So it was very much just informed by the data of a customer. And then also by the community. We did a little bit of gamification.

[00:01:53] How are you in comparison with your peers, right? Within that. And so that whole kind of area was for me, this kind of data utilization, data science of the MSP space.

[00:02:09] And obviously things have come along a lot more. At that time, you were really preaching community and trying to help people kind of build a better MSP.

[00:02:17] Right. And now we look at it, it's all talk about M&A and it's all talk about kind of the sales and marketing is still a thing. Right. But it's, but the businesses have grown up a lot more in it.

[00:02:29] But I feel like some of the tools haven't grown up. Right. We're still in a, we're still in the same way. And I think that the broader IT industry has moved along in some areas.

[00:02:37] And I'm not sure that RMM in particular has moved at the same pace.

[00:02:41] Well, I'd agree with you. And I, and I like to get a little bit of it because my sense on this is in particular, the area that they're almost scrambling to catch up on is, is this idea of automation feels like it's being talked about again when it's not a new, really a new idea.

[00:02:57] Yeah.

[00:02:57] Now I would say like, I think certain elements of AI have probably caught up to the vision a little bit. Although if I really trace the line, it's, it's been more linear than people think.

[00:03:08] I want to get a little sense of, of, you know, where are you kind of sort of circling in the market and saying, okay, these are the areas that I think that space is a little bit behind on.

[00:03:18] But so AI, I think is super interesting for this space. Um, we're not there yet. I don't think any of the vendors are there yet, but I think that's fair.

[00:03:28] I believe that, uh, the knowledge that's available and, um, some of the techniques that I see used.

[00:03:36] I, when we talked about ALS time, I referenced, um, a friend of ours who, uh, who does some very clever things by basically working smarter using chat GPT.

[00:03:46] And it writes his SQL queries for him. He's a great technician engineer. He can write fantastic analytical queries, but he's like, why should I?

[00:03:53] Yeah. I can ask chat GPT to do it. So what's the equivalent in our space? What's the equivalent in terms of, um, you know, enabling a best in, best in class, best practice MSP business using, using, um, machine learning and AI.

[00:04:11] We're not there yet, but that's where I think we're going. I think we're going to see tier four technicians who can get back to doing tier four work, tier two technicians who can do tier four work, um, informed by artificial intelligence.

[00:04:23] And that, that, you know, efficiency piece of it. We talk automation. Yes. Automation is important, uh, from, uh, uh, doing and repeating tasks that are, um, just mundane and shouldn't, somebody shouldn't actually be going and doing them.

[00:04:38] Um, and keeping an eye on things, right. Monitoring and maintaining and notifications, that kind of stuff. Um, but the general kind of, um, uh, knowledge in a box, right. Technician in a box type, uh, thing is where I think we, we need to go.

[00:04:52] So we did, um, things around logic cards with this, uh, back in the day using data science to say what was going on, but we weren't then in the, and here's how you fix it.

[00:05:02] And here's how you, and, and much more kind of interesting and kind of deeper. Yeah.

[00:05:06] So that, uh, and so that's kind of where, where I think things are going. Um, particularly because I think the other thing that hasn't happened, which was still as a, as a industry kind of locked in a little bit too, is we haven't moved on from endpoint management.

[00:05:20] To endpoint lifecycle. Okay. Say more.

[00:05:24] Say, um, you know, you buy, you buy a new phone, right. You pull it out and, you know, app phone, Android, and you can turn it on and it will fully deploy itself and enable itself and work.

[00:05:36] And you don't have to go and do anything. Right. Yeah.

[00:05:38] You know, um, we're not using our backups, right. We're not like consciously saying, oh, we've restored, backed up this device. We restore this device. It's just part of the ecosystem.

[00:05:49] But the lifecycle of a phone is easy to onboard and easy to off that. We're not doing that endpoint management. Right. But you know, I can buy a brand new machine from Lenovo or Dell.

[00:06:00] If I'm a Microsoft customer and I'm using Intune, I can buy a brand new machine. I can procure it. I can drop ship it to an end user.

[00:06:07] They can log on and it will automatically deploy everything that's needed, um, without any manual intervention. Right. And that whole autopilot experience is absolutely fantastic. Right. And it's a great way to go.

[00:06:21] We get rid of application bloat because we're only installing the applications needed. We get rid of local administration, uh, access because we can have a company portal of applications, a customer, an end user can self-install.

[00:06:32] We get it set up correctly. It doesn't have to go via an IT desk or we don't have to maintain a fleet of them in a, you know, in a closet.

[00:06:40] Uh, somebody does. And it's a different, like it's thinking about the whole website, literally my laptop that I've got right now. Um, if I was foolish enough to leave it at the TSA line and never get it back, I will lose no data.

[00:06:55] And I could just walk into a store and buy a brand new one and log on and I could continue working. And that's, that's not what a lot is going on in, in the MSP space. That's not how our mentors work.

[00:07:08] So I want to, I want to get your sense on where you think the responsibility for that is, because I'm putting my MSP cap back on for a little bit.

[00:07:14] And I'm thinking like a lot of perhaps old school MSPs who might be screaming at me right now, but, but I can write all the automation to do that. I can build it all into the tool.

[00:07:23] How much of that do you think needs to be built into the tool versus is the responsibility of the provider?

[00:07:30] Well, um, there's a lot of things you can do with your own car, right?

[00:07:36] Right.

[00:07:36] Um, you know, many things out there that you can, you could still go and do it, but you choose not to do it because it's not the most efficient use of your time.

[00:07:45] Sure.

[00:07:46] And it's not the most productive thing to do.

[00:07:48] And so when you have, uh, suites of tools that provide this automation and provide this management and do it in a highly cost effective manner, then I believe that people should be looking at where they can better, uh, invest, you know, their time for more productive outcomes.

[00:08:07] Right.

[00:08:08] At the end of the day, it's not, uh, like as an industry, what, what is the value we're trying to provide to our customers?

[00:08:14] It's not actually scripts and automation, whatever. It's actually giving them a productive working environment for their users, right? To do their jobs.

[00:08:21] I mean, I, I don't know if it's out of the way.

[00:08:23] I understand it really with you because I mean, I would make the argument that they should be spending their time on business process flow, workflow, compliance, security, you know, requirements, not even necessarily the tech behind it, but the requirements matching that bit.

[00:08:37] But that has not typically been what the software vendors has had, which is why I wanted to highlight your take on this.

[00:08:42] Well, because, and that's because the, the actual software vendors themselves haven't provided the tools in that way.

[00:08:49] They couldn't do it, you know? Um, and you look at Microsoft and, um, and what they provide within their suite, you know, we're, we're, we're going into a time of consolidation, right?

[00:09:01] Within the tech stack. Um, we're coming out of a, we're just going to add another tool, buy another tool, et cetera.

[00:09:07] I believe we're going into a time of consolidation. And if you've chosen, uh, the Microsoft stack as your stack, then there's a lot of things that they're going after.

[00:09:17] Um, they're going after your complete IT wallet, right? Um, and particularly where they are coming along and co-pilot that integrated experience starts to become much more compelling, uh, for, uh, for end users and for organizations.

[00:09:32] And so when organizations want that, you've got to make sure you're at a tech stack that's compatible with it and you're able to deploy and manage and, and work it on through.

[00:09:40] And, um, I think that that's, that's where there's more value to provide than anything else.

[00:09:46] So, you know, we, what we've done, um, is we built a set of automation and management tools that basically is a easy button for, uh, for, for Intune and for the Microsoft suite.

[00:09:59] And, you know, believe buying into the complete device lifecycle management and application lifecycle management is, uh, is the approach that's needed.

[00:10:07] Right. And if you look at what most people's Intune integrations look like from a RMM tool perspective, it's a, it's a feature checkbox.

[00:10:14] They're not really addressing, you know, how to do it. It's like their Intune integration is how do we get our own agent on, um, you know, on the easiest way possible?

[00:10:23] Because they all have a, like, how did they get their software onto the, onto the endpoint, right?

[00:10:28] People are still building images. People are still deploying, uh, devices, um, in that manner.

[00:10:33] Yeah. Um, Microsoft's built a better way, I believe for that ecosystem. And that's certainly what we're brought into.

[00:10:40] And, um, you know, so we think that's kind of the right direction for it.

[00:10:43] All right. I'm going to be a little frisky then on this and sort of ask the like, you know, is, if I think about the Microsoft approach is that you're building against that.

[00:10:52] How much is left for the RMM? Because I could see if you're doing, you know, if you're doing device management, if you're, if you're then you're making the tool set easier, which by the way, Microsoft needs.

[00:11:01] So that that's an important part of what that, that's a gap, but how much, you know, how much can get fully subsumed by that in, in your vision of the full Microsoft stack for say a mid tier in SMB?

[00:11:12] Well, let's look at it. We can do a red-a-pilot. You can drop ship a machine that's never been looked at, log in and built from multiple vendors, um, without anything.

[00:11:21] You can have, um, an application stack based on a, um, an update ring. So a group of users that get different applications for different purposes and know that they're installed correctly and patched.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:34] Right.

[00:11:34] And, and managed without putting all the applications on all the machines all the time.

[00:11:37] Right. You can have policies that will control behavior of the machine without local admin and make sure they're locked down appropriately.

[00:11:45] Right. All done.

[00:11:46] So you've got all of this area in terms of the end point and the application management you can have.

[00:11:51] The challenge is that Microsoft give you all these options. It's just a lot of work, right?

[00:11:57] So, um, you need to be able to have a capability on, on top of that, to be able to manage it.

[00:12:02] And I believe that that will replace most of what the RMM tool is doing.

[00:12:06] Um, the platform and, and windows certainly has take control.

[00:12:12] Right.

[00:12:12] Um, but there's an argument about if you can dynamically build a machine that's correctly configured,

[00:12:16] that does everything, how often are you going to need take control anyway?

[00:12:19] That's spicy take.

[00:12:21] Certainly spicy take.

[00:12:22] Spicy take, right?

[00:12:23] Right.

[00:12:23] How much do you really want to be taking control of people's machines?

[00:12:26] Right.

[00:12:27] And having that actual tool in, you know, in place and in use, um, um, out there.

[00:12:34] Again, a little bit of a spicy take there, but, um, I think that's kind of, if anything, the one little bit of gap there, but in terms of things like backup settings, management, um, application, lifecycle management and patching, operating system, patching.

[00:12:48] We'll think we, you know, machine offboarding, right.

[00:12:51] You know, personal onboarding and offboarding.

[00:12:54] It's all that.

[00:12:55] Okay.

[00:12:56] So as I sort of think about this for next year and her last question that I wanted to get your take on it.

[00:13:01] So we're sitting here November is, you know, 2024.

[00:13:04] Uh, what are you keeping an eye on as we go into 2025 as sort of the big thing that you want to see happen?

[00:13:13] And I'm intentionally asking for it to be broad.

[00:13:15] Like there's, there's something you're probably keeping an eye on.

[00:13:19] That'll be a market indicator.

[00:13:21] What is that for you?

[00:13:22] So, uh, well, there's two things we all should be caring about.

[00:13:25] Um, and if you're not caring about one of them, which is the windows 10 and life, then they're already too late.

[00:13:31] Um, that's October 14th, 2025.

[00:13:34] Yep.

[00:13:35] Um, and, um, I was talking to an MSP, uh, the other day, quite a sizable one, um, about this.

[00:13:41] And they're like, yeah, we've been told by our vendors, if we don't have our orders in by, by Easter, then you're not getting, you're not getting your hardware.

[00:13:50] And, um, yeah, there's a lot of machines out there that are not windows 11 compatible.

[00:13:55] Yep.

[00:13:55] They need replacing.

[00:13:56] So if you don't have a plan for that, you need a plan for that already.

[00:14:00] Um, and the, the second is obviously implementation of the AI, you know, definitely that's an indicator of Microsoft.

[00:14:07] It's the big CSP strategic push for all that partners.

[00:14:11] It's all they talk about.

[00:14:12] Um, we're going into Microsoft Ignite in two weeks time.

[00:14:15] Uh, there'll be a bunch of, uh, new announcements there on various things.

[00:14:20] And, and that, that area.

[00:14:21] So, um, that to me is a big indicator adoption of that, how quickly people want to go there because, um, there's a bunch of prerequisites and those prerequisites, uh, are going to need to be managed and handled and it, you know, time and effort and, uh, planning.

[00:14:39] Well, you've definitely given us a lot to think about.

[00:14:40] Colin, thanks for joining me again today.

[00:14:42] Awesome.

[00:14:42] Good to see you again.

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