Connection across generations doesn’t happen by accident. In this conversation, we unpack the LEARN framework and explore practical ways to build trust, understanding, and meaningful relationships with people who think and communicate differently than we do.
[00:00:08] Hey everybody, this is Larry Little. Hey, and I'm Melissa Hamburg-Jackson. We are glad you have joined us for RelationShifts, the podcast, right? Yes. So Melissa, here we are. We're in May, it's summer, and what, school's out? Not quite. We're so close, but we're not there. We're just knocking on the door. How do I open it up? Yeah. You know, here's the problem. I remember growing up, like, I loved school being out for the summer.
[00:00:35] But the summer seemed so long back then. You know, you'd go outside, go down the creek, do whatever you do, have a great time in the summer. Those long summer nights, I remember, you know, it just seemed like, this is awesome. And now, how long do you get for summer? Like two weeks or something? I mean, it's kind of crazy. Well, it's 10. Okay. It is 10 weeks, and so it's a nice break. It's a good long. Yes, it's still so much fun. Of course, kids are ready. The teachers are ready. Everybody's ready for a break.
[00:01:04] And it always comes quickly. Well, I want to ask you a question before we jump in, because I know that recently, you were talking about a break and that kind of thing. I don't know if it was spring break or if it was just going, but you actually took a group of teenagers to Universal Studios.
[00:01:26] So tell me, like in one word or phrase, how you felt about that experience after going in all these teenagers in that, you know, Universal Studios, riding the bus, having the hotel. I think you chaffroned a bunch of girls, teenage girls. Is that right? I did. I did. I was with a group. I was with a large group. And so my word is it was universal.
[00:01:55] And there's so much to that. I was going to say, you left that wide open, didn't you? Well, kudos to you for going and chaffroning a group of teenagers. That's not an easy thing. They had a great time. It was a lot of fun. Making memories. I love it. I love teenagers, and you either love them or you're scared to death of them, I think. And maybe a little bit of both. Maybe both. Rightly so, but I love that. Well, congratulations. I know that was a lot of fun. You made some memories with your daughter and her friends, and that's awesome. We sure did. Well, today is an exciting day.
[00:02:25] We are going to be talking about your upcoming book. I want to show this. This is Crossing Generational Lines. This book is out, and you can get it on Amazon. You can get it at EagleCenterForLeadership.com. This is an incredible book. You have worked on this. Thank you. For years, building the concept, building the pieces of how to understand generations, because
[00:02:50] that's a very, you know, we think differently. We think differently. We are different. And it's so easy to allow those differences to just not allow us to connect through generations. That's so true. And, you know, one of the hardest things about this book, in writing this book, because it has been years since I've had the concept, but still working through it, is it's so difficult to take all the thoughts, all the information, everything I want to say,
[00:03:20] right, and put it and go down like this with it. That is, you know, and to make it in a small book so that it's readable. I know that sounds crazy, but it's much easier to write an exhaustive book because you just put everything in there, right? You just pile it in. But to write a book, I wanted it to be my goal is to be practical, right, to be relevant and to be short.
[00:03:42] And so, you know, it was that means you've got to really be focused and have a great team around you that can help you to cut the stuff that doesn't it be in it? Make sure the stuff that's in there is poignant and relevant. And so, anyway, I thank you for saying what you said. I hope that our listeners will enjoy it, and I hope that they'll be able to get some things out of there that will help their relationships with different generations. I'm pretty excited about it. This is a great tool for everybody's toolbox.
[00:04:11] I want to give you a sneak peek. This is so much fun. In each generation, there are quotes that match that generation. So a lot of fun to be able to read through that. It is such a nice, easy read. I think that everybody is going to enjoy it. And I want you to think about the front cover here. We've got different tools for receiving communication over the years.
[00:04:36] Which one just kind of comes to your mind as you look at the cover here? Which one do you identify with the most? Do I identify most with the laptop pretty easily? The laptop. Yeah, I take my laptop everywhere. I'm kind of locked into it. It's my office. It's my everything. I love it. It's got back to the rotary phone. Yeah, I remember that. All the way to texting and all those pieces. So a lot of fun.
[00:05:06] You know, once again, Robin, our producer, designed this cover. And she was brilliant because it shows the old kind of communications all the way down to what we're doing now. And it will continue to change as will generations. So I'm really excited about this book. I'm excited about it. Interestingly, the quotes you mentioned, you know, the chapters have themes that we talk about. It's so interesting to hear the quotes from the different generations, their thought on this topic.
[00:05:34] So I don't want to say too much, but I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be interesting. And thank you for introducing this pod, introducing this book. And, you know, we talked a little bit about it last time. And what we said was, we said there's a myth. And we challenged that myth. And we said the myth was that you can't cross generational lines. You know, they're just different. So therefore, you can't cross it. You can't understand it.
[00:06:00] We actually said, you know, the myth is that the greatest barrier in between generations is age. And that's just not true. The greatest barrier is the belief that age is the barrier. So I want you to hone in on that word because, you know, slowing down and really putting some thought into it's not age. It's the belief. So a belief system is powerful. It's very powerful. The construct that we that we allow ourselves to buy into and believe.
[00:06:29] And we just, you know, we then we sell ourselves this bill of goods. We tell ourselves these stories that just aren't true. Well, you know, I'm just too old to well, they're too old for me to or I just don't have the energy to or I just can't or they just don't get it. They just don't think like I do. All of those things are myths and we can definitely get across. So the question then becomes if, you know, the generational age isn't the barrier, what is it that keeps us from getting there?
[00:06:58] And I think it's because really we don't know how. We don't know how to cross generation. We don't know how to talk, communicate, connect with people who are from a different time and era than us. So the answer to that is we need a tool. We need a tool to help us that applies across generations. So what we're going to talk about today applies to every generation. This is a tool you can use.
[00:07:25] You can turn off this podcast at any moment when we're talking about this tool and use it and practice it. And that's the good news. Good news is crossing generational lines is a choice. It's not that you're born with the ability to do it or not. No, no, no. It's a choice that we can learn. And that gets me excited because we can all choose. So you're saying that we either choose to lean into it and learn and understand and connect or we choose not to. Yeah, that's exactly right.
[00:07:51] And there are some things we're going to talk about that are simply us choosing to grow muscle in this area. You know, if you think about, you know, in terms of leading others and you think about leading at home, you think about leading in your church, in your community, leading in your business world, wherever it is, it's so interesting. They surveyed over 800 people and the number one thing that topped the list. And by the way, what we're talking about, these stats are all in the book.
[00:08:20] Let me just give a disclaimer there. But here's what it said. The number one critical skill set that any leader had that made the biggest difference in homes and families. And you know what it was? You do because you have it in front of you. But it was the ability to listen, listen well, listen, active listening, engaging. And and that is true in our families. It's true in our relationship. I don't care how much, you know, it doesn't matter to me until I know how much you care.
[00:08:49] And that is, you know, that's been said for a while. But it's so true. I want you to to hear me before and then I then I can follow you. So I think that's really important that you want to talk about why I said that stat, gave you that stat. We'll talk about the importance of listening in just a minute. So let's let's give a couple of stats here. So 71 percent of people. This is a survey, University of Chicago.
[00:09:18] So 71 percent believe that working together helps generations better understand one another. So not, you know, being being disconnected and only being involved, whether it's volunteer work or work at work in your your family or work at work. But working with other generations and putting yourself in that environment actually helps you understand them better. So being a part of that relationship. Hundred percent.
[00:09:48] University of Chicago did this survey. And right along with that survey, they found that 80 percent of the people said, look, I would love to work with someone at least 25 years older or 25 years younger, because I think if we could work together, we could improve the world around us. If we could. It's like it's like we're looking at this line that we can't cross. Boy, I sure would like to work with them. But, you know, they get on my last nerve. You know, I had a mentor growing up and incredible impact on my life.
[00:10:18] And when she was 70 and 80 years old, she would say all the time, I don't really want to hang out with the old people. I really want to be with the young people. And she would intentionally find ways to place herself with younger people so that she could connect. And it always stood out to me. I don't want to be with the old people. I don't want to be with the old people. I connect with that. Yeah. Yeah. So just, you know, that thought process of I want to learn.
[00:10:47] I want to I want to understand people. Here's another one from the APA. This is the American Psychological Association. This is so good. They say people who can reframe or reset, reframe their thinking, reset their thinking. So people who can reframe or reset their stressors experience lower cortisol levels and it lowers the stress hormone.
[00:11:13] So so we're saying that people that can kind of pull their thoughts together, they can reframe something, they can reset. They can be in a better place to even have relationships. So so being able to understand what my mindset is about other generations and challenging myself to, you know, maybe, you know, not lean into what I might think, but to choose to connect when I do that, then I'm allowing myself to grow. Well, exactly.
[00:11:43] And that's what the premise of this whole book is. Allowing yourself to reframe or reset false ideas or behaviors or thoughts that you have had. Allow yourself to reframe that. We're going to show you how to do that and learn how to cross lines that maybe you haven't previously understood how to do. So that's a choice. Allowing yourself to reframe. It doesn't matter how you feel. Doesn't mean that it's not difficult. Doesn't mean you don't feel fearful. It doesn't mean you don't feel anger or frustration at the other generation. It doesn't mean that at all.
[00:12:12] It means allowing yourself to reframe your thoughts and your mind and therefore your actions to understand things that you didn't understand before and to see things from a different perspective. To reframe means I'm giving myself permission not to allow my feelings to drive my behavior, but to turn that to the cognitive place or to the place where I said I'm going to be self-aware enough to know what's going on so I can give myself a chance to grow, to give myself a chance to learn things that maybe I hadn't known before.
[00:12:41] And all that makes you uncomfortable because it's not familiar. It might be something that you haven't been challenging your own thought process about what you think about generations. And so we need a tool. Yep. And you've got one. I've got one. I'm so glad you asked. I've got a tool. And the tool is very simple. We developed this because we wanted it to be something people could remember and that we could use. So the tool is an acronym from the word learned.
[00:13:11] Because if we reframe, if we say we're going to choose, we're going to debunk the myth, then what are we going to do? We're going to learn. I hope that I stop learning. And this is part of the reason I use this. I want to stop learning with my very last breath. Right? You know, I think that's a great attitude and great perspective. And I think that, you know, that is unique and very powerful. I think that the older that we get, we can become more comfortable. Correct. It can be more difficult for us to learn something.
[00:13:40] And it's easier for us to kind of stay with what we know. And so this is a challenge. It's a challenge to all of us. Even if we're young, we might think, well, we know. We know. We understand this. So this is a challenge to really cause us to evaluate some tools, some skills you're going to give us today. That's exactly right. So let's start with the first letter in your acronym here. And that is listen. So, you know, that's not unusual. I don't think at all that you put that in there. That's kind of a key piece.
[00:14:10] So, you know, we may think, well, we got this and we can listen. Help us unpack that though so we can truly understand what listen means. So many times we listen with our own end in mind. We listen only to get our response in. We listen only to get our point in or to validate what we thought in the first place. So we have biased listening. And instead of that, I'm talking about listening that is more than just a stereotype of I'm just
[00:14:39] sitting here looking at you. I'm listening to understand what you're saying. I'm showing respect and intent. My intent is to better understand what you're saying. I may not get it. I may not get there. But I'm committed to respect you, to listen, even in especially if I disagree or we see things differently or we come from a different world. Listening is not agreeing.
[00:15:06] Listening is not saying I have to submit to your value system. Listening is not saying I think you're even morally correct or incorrect. No, no, no. Listening is to say I want to hear you. And do you know over and over again people tell us in relationships more than agreeing with somebody, they just want somebody that will truly hear them and listen, even to say this is what I've heard. And while I don't agree with you, I respect that you have that opinion.
[00:15:34] How often do you think listening and that type of definition that you're describing, how often do you think that takes place? I'm just curious. It's hard. It's hard. Well, you know, I'll tell you this. I've experienced both. I've been, you know, in the seat of listening inappropriately, of having my mind thought on what I'm going to say next and trying to listen to win, trying to listen to make a point. And that's the easiest. That's easy to do. I think that's our default mechanism. I really do.
[00:16:04] I think we default because we want to protect what we think is right and we want to show ourselves to be competent. I've also, you know, really worked to listen to understand even people that I really don't understand and I really disagree with. And it is amazing the difference how that conversation goes. So I've been on the end that didn't do it very well. And then I've tried to really learn from this. And I can say this. I think it's rare. I don't think it happens a lot. But when it does, I think it's incredibly impactful.
[00:16:34] You know, I think we can learn a lot from our turtle friends about how to listen and how to pause and how to, you know, to show that. And demonstrate that. So, you know, really we can use this as you're talking to evaluate ourselves. How well do we truly listen in this format? And that listening leads to the next. So these kind of build on each other, right?
[00:17:00] So the next in our acronym E, it stands for express genuine interest. And I wanted to put that in there because I think that we can listen. But if we're halfway listening or if we're not engaged, if we're not active, then really we're not going to be able to express. What is express genuine interest? That means that I am really. This is where our reframing conversation that you let us into that. This is where that takes place.
[00:17:28] I'm reframing from listening to have an agenda, listening to prove you wrong, listening to prove me right to listening with curiosity. And then that leads to if I listen with genuine curiosity, that's genuine interest. I'm expressing. I may ask a question instead of giving my opinion. I may listen to seek clarity instead of assuming that I know the answer. So expressing genuine interest, and that's why E is expressed. It's active. It's working.
[00:17:57] I'm working to be curious. I'm working to have a ping pong style conversation where I listen and I ask a question and then you respond and you come back and then maybe you ask a question. And we just kind of go back and forth, not adversarially, but in true, authentic, genuine interest.
[00:18:19] You know, I think so many times, you know, someone is talking and they may have a genuine interest to hear from the other person, but they may be doing all the talking and they may not realize, hey, I haven't, I haven't come up for air. I haven't, I've stopped the ping pong from, from taking place.
[00:18:37] I, you know, I hit it over the net, but I'm, I'm still, you know, hitting it over the net and not really allowing that other person to return with a portion of the conversation as well. So when you are in that kind of conversation, you know, you're, you're in a conversation where somebody is dominating and, and there's no real, they've pinged, but there's no real pong. How does that feel to you? What goes on in your mindset when you're engaged in a conversation where somebody is dominating?
[00:19:08] Well, you know, you don't, you don't feel like you have something to bring to the table. You don't feel like you can, you can, can add, which, you know, if you can't add, you're not feeling like you can connect. You're not feeling like you can, can really have that give and take connection with that person. So if that's the case, what happens to the conversation generally? It's one-sided, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:19:31] You know, I think you have just given a beautiful example of what it means to go to that third piece where I just simply ask you a couple of questions and you answer them. And we kind of begin a little, we won't go any further, but we had a conversation about how it feels. You helped me to understand how you felt when somebody dominated. And so that's what the third piece of this is. It's ask sincere questions.
[00:19:59] If we're going to listen by expressing genuine interest, how do we do that? You see, this is building. You ask. Now, you don't ask questions. Please look at the word sincere. I mean, and consider that. It's a key word. Yeah. If I were to, if I would have asked you something, you know, why are you so, why are you so wrong? You know, or, or why are you so stubborn? Why did you do that? How in the world could you do that? You know, and tone and asking questions, tone is everything. Okay. I'm going to say it one more time.
[00:20:29] In asking questions, tone is everything. If I'm truly authentically seeking genuine interest, my tone is going to be different than if I'm sarcastic or if I'm trying to demean you or try to belittle you or try to ask questions to catch you. I got you. You know, it's not that at all. It's about being respectful and being open-minded. Open-minded does not mean you change your opinion, folks. That is such a myth we've been taught forever. Open-mindedness, we've been taught is an evil thing.
[00:20:59] Open-mindedness is a wonderful thing because it allows you to be open to hear, not to agree, but to hear and to consider with curiosity. So it's, it's your tone. It's being respectful. It's not being, leaning into differences. Don't, don't be afraid of differences. I have grown and learned more from people who are totally different than me, who will never vote like I vote or go to the places that I go to for, for community or worship. They're just in a different culture. And I love that.
[00:21:29] I love that. You know, I'm a beach guy. I love learning from mountain people. You know, let me hear, why do you love the mountain? I want to know. And, you know, so don't be afraid to laugh a little bit and say, well, I never thought of that or laugh at yourself a little bit. Well, I sure had that wrong. Don't be afraid to ask thoughtful follow-up type of questions. Tell me more about that. So you felt this way during that. Help me to understand what we can do different during that. It's good. You hear what I'm doing? That's so good.
[00:21:58] Which leads to the next one, and that is resetting your thinking. So R is to really take that next step to reset your mind, to reset these myths, to reset these things that you think about different generations, that you allow yourself to fall into. So talk to us about resetting. We all have assumptions, and when I say generation X, you have an assumption.
[00:22:26] If I'm millennials, that generation Z, immediately our minds. By the way, that's because of the makeup of our brains from a cognitive standpoint and a neurotransmitter standpoint. Our brains go to the shortcut by default, and the shortcut is the brain takes pieces of information, and they process it, and they build in an assumption because it's easiest to download. That's the easiest way for our brains to function. So our brain really is a culprit.
[00:22:54] We have to be careful because it is natural for us to come to—and I'll tell you a great example of that, social media. What do they want? They want these little bites just to grab you, and then you make assumptions about the rest, and it's so dangerous. So instead of making assumptions and stereotypes, we become self-aware. First, self-aware of what? What are my stereotypes? What are my assumptions? Be aware that I need to be aware that I have biases. That's okay. I have biases.
[00:23:21] As long as I'm aware of that, and I don't allow those biases to drive my behavior. As long as I'm aware of that, and I know I have biases, and my bias may be different from yours. It doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or you're right. It means we have difference of opinion. We have different—so be self-aware and identify that faulty thinking. Faulty thinking doesn't mean that you're wrong all the time. It means that not all of my assumptions are correct. It means not all of them. Some may be. Some may not be. And to change that black and white, get out.
[00:23:51] Reset your thinking. I'm telling you, social media, news outlets, the mongrels, they make a living off of black and white thinking. If they can put out this black and white thought process, get people to polarize, it's all about money for them. There's no morality involved. They're trying to make money for their social media channel or their station, whatever. I'm totally convinced of that. So if we could—but if we could take a step back and say, wait just a minute. Let me reset. Let me be aware of myself. Let me consider.
[00:24:21] Let me listen. Let me express interest in the other side. What would happen in our world today? Let me ask sincere questions and let me reset my thinking to some of the thoughts that I have and assumptions may not be correct. And even if I still believe them, at least I've heard of listening to the other side. You know, and if we allow ourselves to reset, then it sets itself really well for the last piece here. And that is to never stop growing.
[00:24:48] If we can reset, it puts us in a growth mindset. It puts us in this mindset that I can learn from everybody. And I can allow them to challenge my thought process. And I can adjust my thoughts. Or I can lean in more to what I think and my perspective. But I'm giving myself room to grow. You know, that's the end. Never stop growing. And I want that to be my mantra. I want that to be who I am.
[00:25:16] I'll tell you a quick story about this. Because when we stop growing, Melissa, then we stop learning. We stop engaging our relationship. That's when all the barriers go up. Because then we just kind of get comfortable in our own black and white mindset. We believe our assumptions because that's easiest to believe. Growing takes work. But it is a mindset. It's understanding what I need to do to grow. So we were in Europe.
[00:25:43] And it's this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful cathedral. And our guide was this young man. And I walked up and I saw him. And, you know, Melissa, he had tattoos from his neck all the way down. I mean, all the arms, both arms, you know. And I thought, oh, boy. You know, here we are. We're going to have to go. He was going to be our tour guide. And he was going to take us through this beautiful, beautiful cathedral.
[00:26:14] And I thought, my assumption, I had a bias around, oh, he's covered in tattoos. He's young. He's just here to get a paycheck. He's just, you know, we probably won't even be able to understand him. He went, I mean, when we got to know that best tour I've ever had, he was brilliant. Spoke seven languages. He had all this knowledge and data. He was humble. He had experienced an awful lot in his life. We connected.
[00:26:43] In fact, I had my picture made with him. And I saw it just the other day on my camera, on my phone. I was totally wrong. My assumptions. If I had allowed my assumptions to disassociate me from that opportunity, I would have been the one to not to have gained, not to have grown. But that was a growth moment for me to realize my assumptions around what someone looks like or their age. It's just not true. That was several years ago, but it still rings so true in my head today. So listen.
[00:27:11] Express genuine interest. Ask sincere questions. Reset your thinking. Allow yourself to reset and challenge those assumptions and then be committed. Be committed to never stop growing. Growth is a mindset. Well, you have really challenged us today to put into practice pieces that will set us up to connect with others in such a stronger way.
[00:27:37] And when it's all said and done, our connection, our relationships, you know, that is the most important piece to where we are, to what we do. And so I want to challenge our listeners on a shift. Let's make a shift. Because in our relationships, we say it's just the little shifts. Making the little shifts. Give a little energy and time to that. So here's the shift for today in light of your story, too.
[00:28:03] So to shift from I have to relate to this person that's in a different generation or a different, changing that thought process, shifting just a little bit to here's your thought. I need to understand what matters to them. So instead, I have to relate to you. I have to do. Instead, you know what? I want to understand what matters to you. That's right. What's most important to you? How can I understand you at the next level?
[00:28:33] So that I can connect with you and I can enjoy that connection and that opportunity to have a relationship. That is so important. Because when we make that first assumption, I have to relate to them and I have to connect to them. We automatically put ourselves in a defensive situation where I can't connect to them. I'm not the same. And we have to understand that connection doesn't require you to be the same. That's not what we're talking about. We're not asking you to be the same.
[00:29:01] We're saying, I want to understand you and understand our differences and respect those differences. Why is that important? Because when we do that, we show value in the fact that we have recognized the differences that we have. I recognize that you are different from me, but I still respect you and I value this friendship. I value this relationship that we have and I can learn from you. And so it's about shifting from, I have to relate to them. I don't know how to, you know what?
[00:29:30] I need to understand them better. What matters most to her? That's so good. So we want to challenge you to use the learn. Learn about somebody else. We challenge you to find somebody and find out what matters most to them. Do that this week. Just put yourself in that mode. Allow yourself to cross that line and enjoy that opportunity. And I'm going to do that right now. I'm going to cross that line and I'm going to allow myself to enjoy something that matters to you.
[00:30:00] And that is super important to you. People clamor for this. They want it. In fact, I've got a surprise for you today. I know this podcast is a little bit longer than normal, but we're going to go with... Are you ready for this, guys? We're ready. We're ready. I have two dad jokes for you today. Okay. Double. You're going to get double. We'll get double. I just couldn't help myself when I saw it. All right. The first one is a generation. Okay. Because we're talking about generations, right? Yes. And then I'll leave you with one. Great.
[00:30:29] Let's hear it. All right. First, what generation does Forrest Gump belong to? Now, this will speak to the generations that are listening. Some won't even get this, but what generation does Forrest Gump belong to? Gen-A. Gen-A. Gen-A. That's a good one. That's a good one. If you don't get that, you're probably in Generation Z or A. I don't know. All right. Let's hear your second one. I'm going to leave you guys with this.
[00:30:58] It's something we talked about being self-aware. We talked about just kind of knowing some things. And I have a confession to make to you, Robin, and I'm just going to go ahead and make it and let you know, Melissa, it's this. Guys, I've always been addicted to the hokey pokey. But then I turned myself around. Hey, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. Relationships.
[00:31:28] We truly appreciate you. And we hope that today you've gained some things that can help you in your relationships as you make those little shifts that make a really big difference. We look forward to being together again soon. Take care. Little shifts that make a big difference. Real-sion shifts. Little shifts that make a big difference. Thank you for tuning in to the RelationShifts Podcast with Dr. Larry Little and Melissa Hamburg-Jackson.
[00:31:58] We hope today's conversation inspired you to make meaningful shifts in your personal and professional relationships. We want to hear from you. If you have a question for the author, Dr. Larry Little, about personalities or relationships, send in your questions to the link in the show notes. Stay connected with us online at eaglecenterforleadership.com and follow us at Eagle Center for Leadership on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn for more insights, resources, and updates.
[00:32:26] Don't forget to subscribe to the Relationships Podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today's discussion, we'd love for you to leave us a review. You can also watch episodes on YouTube through the Eagle Center for Leadership channel. Until next time, keep choosing to make the little shifts that make a big difference.