James Davis the Director of the Pax8 Academy in Asia hosts Catherine Harris from Project Roar to discuss how important it is to develop the soft skills of your team. Catherine talks us through how lots of team members are getting stuck in their careers which is not only impacting our organisations, but impacting our employees and creating dissatisfaction. She helps us understand some of the key skills to help them develop and how.
[00:00:03] Good day everyone, it's James Davis from the Pax8 Academy again and this time I've got
[00:00:23] Catherine from Project Raw. How are you doing Catherine?
[00:00:26] Hi really well, very excited to be here.
[00:00:28] Well thank you for joining me. One of my usual things to ask before we dive in is
[00:00:32] where in this wide world are you located?
[00:00:35] I am in Sydney and the northern beaches in Sydney actually.
[00:00:40] So must be fairly nice at this time of year.
[00:00:43] Yeah although today it's really wet and that's like clammy humid kind of feeling but that's
[00:00:47] you know we can get past that.
[00:00:49] That's why I live in Tassie to avoid all this.
[00:00:52] Got to think humidity.
[00:00:54] I'm excited to have you on board because interesting topic we'll be talking a lot about developing
[00:01:00] our team and developing their soft skills.
[00:01:05] And I thought I'd just ask you a question to get us started around
[00:01:10] are people really happy with their jobs and are they all going to stay forever?
[00:01:15] Yeah it's funny right because a recent study from LinkedIn said that 59% of people
[00:01:22] are actually thinking about leaving their organization in the next 12 months.
[00:01:27] And interestingly Immersa did a study also that they said that 78% of people would actually
[00:01:32] have stayed in the organization had they known their career path.
[00:01:36] So career path and upskilling is really important into that retention piece right?
[00:01:42] So actually keeping those people yeah.
[00:01:45] And exploring the career path side because that's really telling stats that's a lot of the workforce.
[00:01:54] What really is a career path?
[00:01:56] I think a lot of people have different views on it but what would you see that?
[00:02:01] Yeah I think the biggest misconception about career path is that it's up right?
[00:02:05] And we think oh we need to keep promoting people and actually I think of like career more like
[00:02:11] rock climbing sort of platform.
[00:02:13] So sometimes you go back to go forward sometimes you go sideways
[00:02:17] but there's lots of different places you can actually go and that's career path.
[00:02:22] Sometimes career path is actually just expanding or enriching your existing role
[00:02:26] or maybe even just staying in that role but just getting you know different skills and
[00:02:32] getting different responsibilities.
[00:02:33] So it's different for everybody but I think the misconception is that it's always up
[00:02:38] and so we have to oh I can't promote those people any further well actually that's not necessarily
[00:02:43] the right career path for them anyway.
[00:02:45] Yeah so it's really interesting because I guess everyone's drummed into them and it's a ladder
[00:02:51] it's not the climb rock wall like you're describing but in practice that's what I've
[00:02:56] always seen for most people is they do want those ways to move sideways or add an extra
[00:03:03] responsibility.
[00:03:05] How do you know what someone should be doing?
[00:03:08] Well I think that's having the conversation right it's actually asking people because
[00:03:13] and what's going to be right for somebody is going to be really different for other people.
[00:03:17] So one of the things that I really talk a lot about is career conversations like in
[00:03:22] actually having those career conversations and having them you know on a regular maybe even
[00:03:26] quarterly basis so that you can really understand where people are at and what is
[00:03:30] important to them because sometimes even they don't realise what is available to them
[00:03:36] and sometimes it could be you know developing their career could be learning a new skill
[00:03:40] or you know having a stretch project you know growing networks getting a mentor
[00:03:45] you know internal mobility doing little projects and things like there's a whole range
[00:03:50] of different things that that could be and that's why having those conversations is so important.
[00:03:56] How do you have those sort of conversations is it as easy as just asking or is like what you said
[00:04:01] a lot of people don't know what they don't know?
[00:04:04] I think it is about asking but I think it's being a little bit smarter than that.
[00:04:09] Like if you're going to have a proper career conversation it's going to be
[00:04:13] having a set time when you're both mentally ready for that you know so
[00:04:19] if I've got to go and pick up my kids after school like and so you set this meeting
[00:04:22] for four o'clock and I'm like oh I've got to get out of here by five and so mentally I'm not going
[00:04:27] to be as ready just like if you're not a morning person you don't set it for first thing in the
[00:04:32] morning um so I think you have to be mentally ready but I think also um then it's about
[00:04:38] making sure that you're not being interrupted like you're not going to get interrupted
[00:04:41] and I think then it's then saying okay I want you to think about what it is that might be next
[00:04:47] for you and let's look at how we can kind of get you to that point or let's then ask I've got key
[00:04:53] questions that I might ask to see actually it might be something different to what you thought.
[00:05:00] And I think especially for the SMB space a lot of people are afraid of having these conversations
[00:05:05] because they're afraid of people leaving them is that is that the reality of it?
[00:05:09] I've got my hand a little quote that I keep really close to me so it's the only thing
[00:05:14] sorry this is from Henry Ford so it's you know it's quite old but it says the only thing worse
[00:05:18] than training your employees and having them lead is not training them and having them stay.
[00:05:25] I just think that's just so important right? It is and I think I've seen it a lot enough as well
[00:05:32] that if you're having these conversations people actually want to leave. No they don't you're
[00:05:38] right you're right. Say we have this sort of conversation a career path conversation
[00:05:46] what should happen after it? So the key to good career conversations is you have the conversation
[00:05:53] and then you set up your next conversation and like whether that's going to be every month
[00:05:58] because some people will want it a little bit they're more detailed and they want it to be
[00:06:02] more granular but I reckon the ideal time is about quarterly and you have that and you set it
[00:06:06] for the next one and so you have your conversation and career progression is actually up to the
[00:06:12] employee so it's up to them to put those things into action but it's up to us as leaders to ensure
[00:06:19] that they're on track and that they're following the plan as intended right? So is that accountability
[00:06:27] pace and having someone to brainstorm off isn't that? Well I think you've disposed and I missed
[00:06:33] that. It's the for me it's the accountability pace and being able to brainstorm is what helps the
[00:06:41] employee get unstuck a lot of the times with these kind of conversations. So I missed one of that
[00:06:45] because we froze so what sorry can do you mind just repeating it? So with this what I'm picking
[00:06:51] up is the the person you know the owner or manager is really there to hold them accountable
[00:06:56] and provide them with someone to brainstorm off so they can gain clarity for themselves to
[00:07:01] drive themselves. Yeah and it's about just asking questions right because if I'm having if I'm the
[00:07:08] leader and having a conversation with you you may not actually know what your next step is going
[00:07:12] to be and that's okay but you know being able to ask you the right questions to sort of uncover
[00:07:18] it doesn't have to be such a huge conversation that you're like this is so moment this is
[00:07:23] such a momentous conversation in time right now it can be just chunking it down right
[00:07:29] and that yeah so it's just about asking the right questions. That sort of chunking it down I think
[00:07:35] most people you correct me if I'm wrong most people will end up trying to turn that into that
[00:07:40] traditional career conversation of what the promotion is and what technical what technical
[00:07:46] skills you've got and what you need. Yeah is that the right way of looking at that development?
[00:07:51] It's because development is not just technical skills and actually I reckon at the moment
[00:07:57] because you know when you look at the market and the innovation and disruption that's happening
[00:08:02] I mean technology is really driving innovation right you know you think about AI and autonomous
[00:08:09] driving you know all of those things it's sort of it's the market is moving so quickly so technically
[00:08:16] we can't always keep up but it's having the being able to coach people and having those soft
[00:08:22] skills is that's where it's really important for that yeah. And what sort of let's dive into the
[00:08:28] soft skills what sort of soft skills are we generally talking about? Look it can be a range
[00:08:34] of different stuff depending but you know in terms of what I spend a lot of time being asked for and
[00:08:40] talking about would be elevator pictures so how do you introduce yourself in a compelling way
[00:08:46] and the organisation in a compelling way and that's not just for salespeople right because
[00:08:51] you could be talking to vendors or whoever clients customers even internally just to be able to say
[00:08:58] well this is what I do and what I bring so elevator pictures are really important thing.
[00:09:05] Presentation skills is another one and being able to package up information in a compelling way
[00:09:10] so that people you know you get buy-in networking that's another one that I get asked to talk
[00:09:17] about a lot so networking is absolutely critical those are the top three for me that I get asked a lot
[00:09:24] yeah. And I think for a lot of people hearing it they can sort of yeah they can sort of see
[00:09:31] and feel yeah that could be useful but I think a lot of especially small businesses will go
[00:09:37] it's not really caught their job why would I want to do those kind of those top three skills as
[00:09:43] an example. Yeah so it's funny right because I reckon the world goes around through networks
[00:09:49] right it's who you know and that helps as a small business owner that certainly helps me
[00:09:54] because my employees also know people right but in terms of elevator pictures then that is about
[00:10:02] being able to articulate who you are particularly in the networking situation it can be a perfect
[00:10:07] example so being able to say that and introduce yourself and the organization in a compelling way
[00:10:15] actually puts people on the front foot. In a different like space that I work in is in interviewing
[00:10:23] and I'll interview you know I'll help candidates to learn to interview but there's a really
[00:10:29] interesting study that was done and it's really hard to pinpoint when this was but
[00:10:34] say 2016 and LinkedIn promoted you'll talk about it a lot and they interviewed 2000 hiring managers
[00:10:42] and a third of those hiring managers had made a hiring decision in the first 90 seconds of
[00:10:48] meeting somebody okay and let me tell you with a recruitment background it is almost impossible
[00:10:55] to change a hiring manager's mind once they've made it right so a third of them have made a yes
[00:10:59] or no on that candidate in the first 90 seconds so why is that relevant here well you think about
[00:11:05] that translates when you're meeting people like out networking or whatever right meeting new clients
[00:11:10] doing a pitch whatever a third of those people are likely to make a decision in the first 90
[00:11:15] seconds based on your introduction so that's why those things are really important and especially
[00:11:21] for such a customer service focused industry that we are the team the help desk is always doing it
[00:11:31] all day every day the project team the sales team even now internal operations are needing to convey
[00:11:40] complex information in a short amount of time in a very considered way that to non-technical
[00:11:48] people so that whole you know being able to introduce yourself and convey that knowledge
[00:11:53] that's what it's a very important skill totally important it's and it's one of those because
[00:11:58] it you know I call it an elevator pitch it could be a personal value proposition or your
[00:12:03] value proposition or whatever right but yeah like without that I it's one of those things
[00:12:09] like I'll have a room full of you know senior executives and I'll be like who has an elevator
[00:12:14] pitch and it's funny because hardly anybody ever puts a hand up and it's one of those skills that
[00:12:19] when you when you have got it you think how did I get by without it and now that I've got it I can
[00:12:25] just keep evolving that and I'll use it for the rest of my career and they end up having these
[00:12:30] sessions with people and then they're like hold on I use my elevator pitch you know several times
[00:12:35] a week now and it's funny because they never even realized that they needed one in the first
[00:12:39] place yeah and and this is you know using that as an example this is the sort of soft skill that
[00:12:45] a lot of us aren't working on and aren't developing and it's pretty critical with what we're doing at
[00:12:51] the moment like you said technology is just steaming your head and you can't keep up with it all but
[00:12:57] that that people centric the human-centered focus is only becoming more important so it's true
[00:13:05] and the key thing in that is that if your business and the people in your business have
[00:13:11] got an elevator pitch they're already ahead of the rest right because nobody else has them
[00:13:15] so it's things like that that you start to think oh actually there's value in my team
[00:13:20] understanding how to introduce and you helping to shape that narrative is really important in
[00:13:26] terms of what how you want your business to be represented yeah and with that I guess
[00:13:33] a lot we've got a fairly young core employee base they're all you know they're all a lot younger
[00:13:42] in your experience are they have they been set up to succeed in this sort of
[00:13:48] consultative led world to be able to have these sort of conversations with clients or
[00:13:53] are they needing a lot more development of this of these soft skills that we're talking about
[00:13:57] look I reckon some people are naturally going to be able to do that but from my experience
[00:14:04] and working with the range of people that I work with sales people and consultants are really good
[00:14:10] at selling a product or service but in Australia typically we don't like to promote ourselves
[00:14:17] because if we're promoting ourselves and talking us ourselves up then we you know people think oh
[00:14:22] you know you really up yourself or you really you know conceded so we typically don't do that
[00:14:27] culturally here and so and across Asia right it's an Asia Pacific thing so when you when you
[00:14:38] so yes they know how to sell themselves from a their product or service but often they
[00:14:44] don't know how to position themselves in that without sounding well trying to sound
[00:14:49] authentically and that's what that's what this key thing here is right being authentic
[00:14:56] I'll put you on the spot now what does authentic really mean like a lot of people struggle with
[00:15:01] this in general they hear that word and be genuine but what does it
[00:15:10] look I think it's about understanding what you bring to the table that makes you
[00:15:13] uniquely you right and being able to state that so I have a saying that I say a lot right
[00:15:18] don't sell you just tell you and if you can articulate what what makes you special
[00:15:27] because you have got superpowers that other people don't have and that differentiate you from
[00:15:33] people that do what you do right and if you're able to articulate that for me and
[00:15:38] and be truthful about it then for me that's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about being
[00:15:42] authentic and that makes that makes a lot of sense I think a lot of people struggle
[00:15:48] with self-awareness of what are their true strengths and sort of backing them
[00:15:53] this is part of that soft skill development and career development you've been talking about
[00:15:59] and I think that like you're raising a good point because a lot of us go through our
[00:16:03] our career right and I kind of feel like our career is often like a river so you think
[00:16:08] you know we jump in and some of us consciously jump in right we might study law or or
[00:16:14] accounting or whatever and we become an accountant or a lawyer right we we we become a lawyer and
[00:16:19] then we go into a practice and we we continue up and we become a partner right that's a very
[00:16:25] conscious decision that we're making up front then there's others like the rest of us you know
[00:16:30] I studied a bachelor of arts and I think I majored in toga parties like I had the time
[00:16:36] of my life but then went oh now I need to get a job what do I do and so I literally jumped
[00:16:40] into my career river with whoever would take me right and so then I get swept along and that and
[00:16:46] for most of us then we do get swept along because there'll be a new job will come up
[00:16:51] but you know a boss will go to a new company and we'll follow them and we just kind of get
[00:16:54] swept away so what was your original question because I didn't have a point to that it was
[00:17:01] it was off the back of the authenticity and most people lacking self-awareness so is this
[00:17:06] part of the that conversation for career development so this is my long-winded way of
[00:17:11] answering that but I think that the idea is that we're not consciously making decisions
[00:17:17] and so I think that that's um yeah my points last I think because we were talking about
[00:17:25] yeah I think my points last it's all right it's but anyway I'm sure it was going to be
[00:17:30] really good it's it's it's the self-awareness piece I think it's pretty cool so the thing is that then
[00:17:36] it's about self-discovery because we're going down we get keep continuing down the the career
[00:17:41] river and then we have to go oh actually I haven't taken any time out to think what am I good at
[00:17:47] you know what gives me energy what do I enjoy actually doing because I might be good at stuff
[00:17:53] but that might be a reputational strength right it might be that other people think I'm good
[00:17:57] at that but when you start to really think about what it is that you love doing and get energy from
[00:18:03] that requires self-discovery and and having the time to do that then starts to link what skills
[00:18:11] do I actually have and so that's about being authentic so that was my very long-winded way
[00:18:17] of getting to that point and I think that's where the owner managers come into come into play
[00:18:24] of being able to help people have that conversation because obviously
[00:18:28] self-reflection is very difficult it's very happy to just sit there and go I'm super good at this
[00:18:33] bang bang bang done like some people can do it but the majority need outside reflection well because
[00:18:38] if it was like that if it was if it was that easy we'd be doing it all the time right yeah
[00:18:42] and we don't do it and we probably all avoid doing it yeah if we're really honest with
[00:18:46] ourselves so yes that's why leaders are really important and that's why you know having
[00:18:50] coaching conversations and all of those things are important one of this sort of leads into one
[00:18:56] of the self skills that you're mentioning before like interviewing skills there's obviously two
[00:19:01] sides to this being a being the interviewer and being the interviewer what's some of the sort
[00:19:06] of tips that when you're training people on both sides that they should focus on to be better at
[00:19:14] both sides to be better at interviewing as a leader like somebody that's simpler and also
[00:19:19] the candidate oh gosh there's lots of things I think the the recruitment or the interview
[00:19:26] process is very much geared towards the employer finding the right candidate and not letting the
[00:19:33] candidate make sure that it's the right the right business and I think if we could allow the process
[00:19:39] to like give space for the candidate to make sure they're making the right decision you'd end
[00:19:45] up with a better workforce right because then you'd know that they actually wanted to be in
[00:19:49] your business it's not about you finding them but they also have to make sure that you're right
[00:19:54] because then they're going to stay longer they're going to be better employed like you know
[00:19:58] they're going to be set up for success really so I think that's one of the things I'm when I'm
[00:20:04] talking to candidates I'm always like make sure you ask lots of questions you probably only
[00:20:07] have five minutes to do that but if I was on the other side as a leader I'd actually offer
[00:20:12] them more time for than that like okay so I've asked my questions what have you got for me and
[00:20:17] let's make it a much more collaborative process because together then we can decide if that this
[00:20:22] is the right opportunity for both of us that's the key I reckon and to me from that what you
[00:20:28] just said that applies to a lot of our day-to-day jobs as well sometimes where we're being led by
[00:20:34] a client where we should be being in control of the conversation internally and externally with
[00:20:43] different third parties that whole process it doesn't just apply to the recruitment side it
[00:20:51] actually fits in all of our day-to-day lives yeah and this is where we go back see we keep
[00:20:57] rounding back to the soft skills and you talk about that presentation and being able to present
[00:21:03] that is a really critical skill that people in your organization need to know how to do
[00:21:08] and that doesn't even need to be just for people that are presenting information to clients it could
[00:21:13] be that they need to present information to you but they need to be able to as the leader right
[00:21:18] but they need to be able to package that up so it's useful for you but also it sets them up
[00:21:23] for success so it soft skills just kind of that it keeps coming around to that right it's
[00:21:28] really important to be developing those well it should be the expectations as far as say
[00:21:36] developing a younger person with these sort of soft skills is it something that happens overnight or
[00:21:42] like does it take years so what should be my expectations of a of a person going through this
[00:21:48] sort of soft skills development oh how long is a piece of string because I feel like like you
[00:21:54] know at my age still I'm learning soft skills right if I allow myself the opportunity to self-reflect
[00:22:01] and then go okay what's next there's always something right some things are going to be picked
[00:22:06] up really easily and some things are not and some things are actually really hard to learn so
[00:22:12] something like initiative for example it's very hard to learn that you kind of have that or
[00:22:16] not there's things you can do to kind of teach somebody to be a little bit more proactive
[00:22:22] maybe but you know some skills are going to be really hard and particularly hard for some people
[00:22:28] depending on the level of where they're at in the spectrum in terms of that skill
[00:22:32] but then some things are going to be like presentation skills for example you could go in
[00:22:37] and teach that and then they could apply that immediately and that's one of the things that
[00:22:42] I'm very passionate about is like have immediate application like things that they can take
[00:22:48] practical tools and tips so that you can actually start to put them into place because high level
[00:22:55] like this is kind of what this means and so you have to kind of use it in your job it's not
[00:22:59] going to be really helpful for people they need to have practical ways of being able to actually
[00:23:03] implement it yeah it's a hard question to answer because it depends really and like what you said
[00:23:10] it's a sick look here as well it's not just a it's not linear where you just chip off each
[00:23:18] certification when you're done it's this reflection process of learning it doing it reflecting
[00:23:26] improving and so on. Totally it's funny because I do I do I have a questionnaire that is for
[00:23:36] emotional intelligence for managers around different you know sort of areas of that
[00:23:41] and you know sometimes they'll go you know I'm nailing this like I've got such high emotional
[00:23:46] intelligence on all the components and then other times they'll like they might do the test
[00:23:51] again or the quiz again you know in a few months later even and then be like oh yeah actually I
[00:23:56] had a bad experience with that one so you're constantly assessing and changing and you know
[00:24:01] evolving and depending on what's going on for you at that time and how far stretched you are you know
[00:24:06] like things change. And I think that's when everyone hears that sort of growth mindset
[00:24:14] like this is what that actually means is no it's not it's not that
[00:24:18] career ladder it's this constant reflection and cycle it's improving yourself. Oh I love
[00:24:23] the growth mindset I love it and I don't know if you've delved into it very much but
[00:24:30] Carol Dweck is like the legend in this space and she has done some Ted talks and stuff they're
[00:24:37] really worth having a look at but one was is the power of yet you know have you heard of that one
[00:24:44] yeah I love it so it's so powerful because what she's saying is they there was a study done
[00:24:49] in the US with high school students and people that did maths instead of getting a failure rate
[00:24:55] they got a not yet so it's not that you have failed that subject you just haven't got it yet
[00:25:01] and I love that because then it opens you up like you can see that growth mindset because
[00:25:06] you know you don't know maths yet but you will there's still the opportunity to
[00:25:10] to be able to learn that it hasn't closed it off like not fail that's it you're really bad at
[00:25:15] maths. And I use that a lot you know in the sessions that I will do because it's like that simple
[00:25:21] three little word yet just changes the way people can view themselves and also situations
[00:25:28] it's amazing I don't know that yet I love it. That's a very good very great concept because
[00:25:35] I think a lot of owners and managers they're trying to manage the business day to day the
[00:25:42] failures are trying to be managed so there's less opportunity for reputational harm on the
[00:25:49] business and we're probably from the traditional way of learning you either pass or you fail
[00:25:55] type of thing but that's not actually life what you said it's yet it's the amount of
[00:26:02] people that I come across with limiting beliefs is crazy it's why a lot of our businesses aren't
[00:26:09] succeeding because even the owners put limiting beliefs on themselves and it sounds a bit wanky
[00:26:14] but it's it's the case when you've got that abundance mentality you've got that growth mentality
[00:26:19] things come a lot easier. Yeah I love it I actually first heard about it I so when my son was like
[00:26:27] in junior junior school right and this this one pager came up with fixed mindset and growth mindset
[00:26:34] I was like oh this sounds really interesting and so I actually stuck it on my wall I was like
[00:26:38] I started to really get into it because I love that the kids are learning this from an early age
[00:26:44] now like you're not like when we were at school and you're you're far and look they're still
[00:26:48] past fails but there's it it's just changing the way that we're viewing things and I think
[00:26:53] as adults we can learn a lot from that yeah I love it. And I think too what you were mentioning
[00:26:59] like the kids are learning it they're the ones coming up into the workforce so if we don't
[00:27:05] if we don't embrace that mentality and know how to leverage it we have a lot of trouble because
[00:27:11] if we have that sort of binary past fail and all that sort of mindset it's going to put off the
[00:27:18] people wanting to join us or staying with us so that open mindedness helps a lot with having
[00:27:24] those sort of conversations. Yeah and look you know we can link that back to innovation as well
[00:27:30] because so I kind of I like to think of you know growth mindset I love it and but also psychological
[00:27:37] safety so creating an environment where if you're telling people even they're saying oh I failed that
[00:27:42] or I haven't got that yet you haven't got it yet you haven't learnt that yet it kind of kind of
[00:27:48] lends itself into being a little bit more psychologically safe and I think then and
[00:27:53] that's where you know if you're in a trusted environment and you're creating a trusted
[00:27:58] environment then you're going to get innovation and creativity and risk taking and risk taking can
[00:28:05] be as simple as somebody putting up their hand with an idea that they may think might be a bit
[00:28:09] stupid and if they're not in a psychologically safe environment they're not gonna it's not going to
[00:28:14] get aired and it could be the one thing that just kind of takes off right and that would have
[00:28:20] been a lost opportunity yeah. So it's very fascinating this conversation and one of the
[00:28:27] things when I saw you present ages ago that really triggered me and I saw the audience cringe when
[00:28:34] you said it was the whole developing the skills to build out LinkedIn and their resume and things
[00:28:43] like that like why is that a soft skill that you'd want to develop of your employees?
[00:28:49] Oh so like LinkedIn particularly is such a powerful tool right like I don't know business
[00:28:58] people that aren't on LinkedIn so we're all there that's it's a captive audience and I think like
[00:29:04] the thing is then people say oh no I don't want to do LinkedIn training because if I do
[00:29:07] LinkedIn training then people are going to leave my organization or other people will find them
[00:29:12] right well we've already ascertained that 59% of people you know are potentially planning on leaving
[00:29:18] your business anyway but that aside the thing is that LinkedIn allows you as an organization
[00:29:24] also to really like lift your your brand through the people that work there it's such an exciting
[00:29:35] tool as a proactive way of just having your brand out there and elevating that I think it's great
[00:29:43] I do too I'm a bit biased because I live on it but I think that it's that fear of losing
[00:29:50] the people isn't it as we're talking through this it's really reinforcing that by not doing these
[00:29:57] kinds of things we're actually creating more static people that's why they are looking
[00:30:02] yeah that's why they do start to look outwards. Yeah there was a study done
[00:30:08] and I'd have to check I'm not sure if it was LinkedIn or C-suite but did this one
[00:30:12] c-suite data but they were saying that 75% of people were likely to stay if they had understood
[00:30:19] their internal movements like what was available to them but 56% said that they
[00:30:27] had not had that opportunity so like actually look what pre-conversations are just so important
[00:30:34] yeah and I think you know as we start to start to wrap up that whole point of it's not a career ladder
[00:30:43] like this is where a lot of the small businesses get stuck of going like you said
[00:30:47] we don't actually have the positions and roles but it doesn't matter we actually have
[00:30:53] the advantage in a small business to give people more opportunities in responsibilities and
[00:30:58] trying different things and a big corporate right. So let me tell you some other stats I've
[00:31:03] got some stats here actually the thing is and this is around employees not feeling like they get
[00:31:10] enough the right support so 26% this was definitely a c-suite data study they said 26% say that
[00:31:22] employers say that their organization challenged them to learn a new skill only 26% 15% said that
[00:31:29] their organization encouraged them to move to a new role and only 14% of those organizations
[00:31:38] encouraged their people to develop to build a new development a career development plan so that
[00:31:45] that is alarming to me really small right that is like employees not getting enough support so
[00:31:52] it's no wonder so many people are wanting to leave businesses yeah and it doesn't shock me from
[00:31:59] experience I think too if we're taking the demographics like we've been talking about
[00:32:05] as well the millennials and the gen zed as an example we're all used to more flexibility
[00:32:12] as well so that traditional need for a career ladder actually isn't there it is that conversation and
[00:32:20] in that growth and I guess before I start to ask you to wrap up I've got a another question for you is
[00:32:30] what are we sort of expecting from our people are they going to stay with us forever or
[00:32:35] what's more reality what if I was a business owner what should I sort of typically be expecting
[00:32:41] if I've got a good engaged employee that I'm growing how long should I sort of expect them
[00:32:48] I don't know the numbers but I just think if you've got an employee that is engaged and is excited to
[00:32:55] come forward to work then that is the best situation right because that's where you're
[00:32:59] going to have creativity and like all those amazing things that are going to happen in your
[00:33:03] business and you want to package that up as long as you can right but you need to
[00:33:10] and look there's some people that you don't want to stay in your business and that's okay
[00:33:15] but the ones that you do it's around this like to retain them you've got to offer them like
[00:33:21] development and you've got to offer them you know opportunities and you know and look
[00:33:27] opportunities can be really basic stuff like if somebody wants to learn how to present better
[00:33:33] then maybe let them take the team meetings right that's presenting but that little thing
[00:33:39] that actually then gives you time as a leader to do something else allows them the opportunities
[00:33:44] to do what they really need and what's important to them remember bite size so I think you need
[00:33:51] to be developing your people right yeah well this has been it's been chock full of of different
[00:33:59] things that I may not have considered in the past what do you want people to really take
[00:34:05] away from today if there's one or two major lessons that you really want to reiterate and then
[00:34:11] people aren't doing this already what do they need to do to get started yeah so I think the thing is
[00:34:16] that we are living in like innovation is the lifeblood really of any organization
[00:34:21] and technology is really driving that right so but at the end of the day the robots can't do
[00:34:27] everything so we need to be developing our people and to be able to innovate and we want
[00:34:36] our people to feel safe and looked after and really nurtured and so to do that it's around
[00:34:42] thinking about what career opportunities they might have and like we were talking about
[00:34:47] it's a rock climbing rule it doesn't have to be up because you might be the next step for them
[00:34:54] that's not going to be necessarily a viable thing so I'd be thinking about what other things
[00:34:58] can they get involved in yeah I think that's the key stuff for me and to me I think just the thing
[00:35:06] that's resonated with me the most is if you're not developing these people they're going to
[00:35:13] leave and you're going to be left with the ones that don't have those skills and aren't willing
[00:35:17] to develop their skills either so you're in a worse off position than actually taking the
[00:35:23] time to give this a go because you left with the people that you didn't want to keep
[00:35:28] and I think there's a lot of people that are listening that probably are in that position
[00:35:33] in our industry we've had a lot of changes from COVID and the salary increases and as a dynamic
[00:35:40] shift of what we're doing we're not left with the people that are wanting to or possible that
[00:35:46] could take us into the future we're left with the people from yesterday and that's a very
[00:35:51] dangerous position to be in totally and and and you know we've talked about some soft skills you
[00:35:57] know we talked about presentation skills and and communication in terms of introduction skills and
[00:36:02] that but there's a whole lot of different stuff and that doesn't necessarily look I'm a small
[00:36:07] business owner and I know you know the money can't go everywhere like and there's only so much
[00:36:12] of it but you know it doesn't have to cost a whole lot of money to be able to do to offer
[00:36:18] these things and sometimes it can be just done in-house it's just actually you having the conversations
[00:36:22] and asking the right questions I think that's I think that's some awesome wisdom to finish up on
[00:36:29] so hopefully everyone who's been listening along today has taken taken as much away from the
[00:36:35] conversation as I have and but this has been great to have you Catherine so I really appreciate
[00:36:39] your time having me no worries well until next time