Sales and Cigars | Ben Dixon | Technology Unleashing The Power Of Referral Marketing | Episode 168

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars.

[00:00:05] Today's episode my guest is Ben Dixon and Benz with Nexum, which is an interesting company.

[00:00:13] I don't normally do have a lot of guests on this from this affiliate, marketing, software space.

[00:00:20] But he's got an interesting story about creating a situation for your business that helps you make better decisions because you've got data in real time.

[00:00:33] He's an interesting guy, he's got some great insights that we talk about in the front about the books that we read and how we apply that to our entrepreneurial ship journey.

[00:00:45] I mean he graduated college in 19 and was failed miserably in sales and then nailed it the next year.

[00:00:53] So go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail, strap in for another fun impactful episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:01:16] So Ben, welcome to the program. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule.

[00:01:27] You got it, Walter thanks for inviting me to come on out. Looks like you got a nice one today.

[00:01:33] Yeah, I'm smoking my goat, my go to Pedron 4000.

[00:01:39] I can't go wrong.

[00:01:42] So the thing I like to start off with, because it helps me understand what people read, what they consume and helps me understand them a little bit.

[00:01:54] So is there a book that you recommend or gift to people on a regular basis?

[00:02:00] The books I hand out the most would be Geno Whitman's traction. I love that book. I've used the principles and traction in all of my businesses.

[00:02:10] And the second one I hand out the most beyond the like fanatical prospecting and Grand Cardone seller be sold books would be Simon Sinek's start with why I find that if I help business owner with traction and understanding responsibilities and expectations

[00:02:29] and this idea of an accountability chart into people get it wanting to have the capacity to do their roles in your organization that books like start with why help with vision and setting goals of what's possible and books like fanatical prospecting and, you know, sell every sold or 10x rule are a lot of the tactics of getting over your own excuses and understanding that sales as a game that has a pipeline.

[00:02:52] And you got to have a real relationships and do the work and plant the seeds and not just expect to harvest the next day.

[00:02:57] So those are the, this will be the four I hand out the most on our side.

[00:03:02] Interesting. That's an interesting, interesting four. I have a lot of clients who run EOS.

[00:03:08] And I think there's it's a great operating system for us for us business that is on a growth scale.

[00:03:17] It's more practical for smaller businesses, I think that I'm like scaling up right because the principles of the story.

[00:03:25] Yeah, scaling up as the post 40 million a year book in my mind my friends businesses under 40 million traction over 40 million year gazelle scaling up that's awesome.

[00:03:35] Yeah and you know they're speaking to the same issues but just a different scale and the language is different.

[00:03:41] And Simon's book, you know, start with why it applies to everything right to your kids, to your employees, to your salespeople, to whatever.

[00:03:53] Like if you help them understand that piece, it's a that Ted talk is one of the is is a really powerful one.

[00:04:01] So the and jet blount stuff, you know, it's repetitive but it's good. Right?

[00:04:08] The one that I am, I'm just not a fan of Grant Cardone. I'm just not like the stuff he talks about.

[00:04:16] I love it. You got to be you got to own it. You got to go do it. You got to do the work. That kind of thing.

[00:04:21] I just not a fan of. I put him in the same bucket as a.

[00:04:27] Is it Beaufort? The guy that had the movie made about him with the wall.

[00:04:32] Yeah, you know and it's enough Walter. I always tell my staff and even people I get books to is there's I always say eat the meat and spit out the bones.

[00:04:40] You know because so many times you can't get the whole pack like that every book is the Bible right where you're just going to love all that.

[00:04:47] Like not every book is the Bible. That's just the truth right so hey not every books the Bible.

[00:04:51] But hey this isn't a Bible you can argue with right?

[00:04:54] Well, I just say that like with Cardone stuff is the point like there's 60% of there that's just good kicky on the butt stuff

[00:05:01] that people need to hear and personality wise on social media you can argue about if you don't want to have dinner with the guy but at the end of the day.

[00:05:09] You know I that's like like there's a difference in business and life like I always tell people don't take money from someone you want to let watch your kids right.

[00:05:16] So it's like who do you want to be in business with right well that's something very different than then who can you learn from well you can learn from

[00:05:23] from good guys and bad guys you can learn from victors and and people who are victims.

[00:05:28] That's a fair point I love it. I just bring I bring it up just because of the that's my bias but

[00:05:37] and I've read stuff right there's there's like he said 60 70% of this stuff is good and I don't have to watch his commercials right I can turn that off.

[00:05:45] Yeah, you don't have to subscribe.

[00:05:49] Yeah, but you brought you brought something up that there's an interesting like little one liner that you don't take money from people you wouldn't let watch your kids.

[00:05:58] It's been on that a little bit.

[00:06:00] That goes for clients that goes for investors those business partners it's this idea that life is short right we live in a finite life right none of us are going to live forever.

[00:06:09] And so you choose to wake up every day and do work that makes a difference in the world that you're passionate about that solving real problems for all people right that's how we that's the biggest reward of life.

[00:06:18] Yeah, money is how he keeps score but creating value real value and other people's lives like that's emotionally what's most rewarding in an organization is not just slapping money around it's the difference your product or service made in the end customers life.

[00:06:32] And so when you think about who you collaborate with on a daily basis you have choices know whether it's business partners owners investors clients you choose who you say yes or no to and in sales right you choose who to have as clients.

[00:06:47] So there's certain clients you can say yes to that would give you money that are going to wreck your life and then there's other clients you're going to say yes to who are going to pay you and you're in a great relationship with and you're going to do good things in the world together.

[00:06:57] And you just got to know that so you don't need any one person you don't need everybody to buy your product service you can have respect for yourself and your offer and others and go out there and just and sort for the people that you desire to do business with and that's what makes this game fun.

[00:07:13] And it's one of the cool things about sales right because we get to make choices and we get to outcomes are important I have a friend who we do a series on on the podcast called think differently about sales and Nate refers to what you just described as ruthlessly disqualifying prospect.

[00:07:35] Right and it sounds a little harsh but in reality it's getting to what you just described.

[00:07:43] You know if I talk to five CEOs and I'm looking for the reason that they're not going to really do what they need to do to transform the organization the sales team they're not going to not going to do it right they don't have the desire to commit I'm looking for that.

[00:08:03] So I'm fine with talking to five people that like I want to do this and like yeah I don't think that's your problem and here's why and we talk through it if they're not committed to doing what's necessary you're not going to have success right so that's a problem but you're not going to have you're not going to have fun doing it.

[00:08:27] Yeah and I know that sounds weird but if we're entrepreneurs and we're out there and we're invested in their their world and we're going to we're going to fight for them and we're going to coach their people we're going to do all those things.

[00:08:41] If it isn't like fun and exciting and I want to do this I don't want to I don't want to start.

[00:08:49] Yeah well Walter you tight to ideal outcomes I love the picture you just painted is like the ideal income for so many people in sales today it's not just closing the deal that's only a small part of that relationship's value.

[00:09:01] You know we not only want to close the deal we then want to deliver on that deal beyond expectations to the place on that customer we just served is not only willing to give us a great review on Google but is willing to take phone calls from other potential clients and say oh my gosh working with Ben Nixon was just phenomenal like of course you should hire the manager.

[00:09:18] Like that's the actual ideal outcome is so much more than just selling product A or V or C in the beginning it's and so to deliver that it takes a much deeper approach and the right person to your point that's going to do the work.

[00:09:36] Sometimes if you're selling a custom solution or you're implementing a consulting plan or you're selling software like in my world you have to have people are going to do all the work where you're likely to be part of their success and so you have to make sure they're doing the other components as well where they're going to play it on you.

[00:09:54] It's going to be your fault.

[00:09:56] It's funny I've told the story before I'll get to the end point where you're you've gone through discovery and you've qualified and disqualified got there and and there's they're looking at you they're all excited right.

[00:10:12] And it's like you know I think we got to this point and you know there's this we could do this and we could do this and then I look at them and say let me tell you why this won't work.

[00:10:22] And then like the whole body language changes and they lean in usually or sit back in their chair like what again let's talk about why this won't work.

[00:10:34] And you're like oh okay well why wouldn't it work I'm like you and here's what I mean about 45 days in somebody's going to come to you from your team and going to say this guy it's crazy.

[00:10:49] He wants us to do stuff we've never had to do before he's pushing us to try to do different things and what you say as an owner of the business at that moment is going to make or break what we do together.

[00:11:03] So let's rehearse that let's practice what that sounds like right and it's amazing I know within 30 seconds if that person is going to fight for themselves or if they're going to roll over and it's not worth the effort.

[00:11:18] And I know that sounds terrible and I'm not exact I'm not for everybody.

[00:11:24] No but even it's true adoption and implementation is the key part and that's where the risk is in any project right anyone can sell a project but can they implement that's what you see in like big.

[00:11:35] Fortune 500 companies you see these these career moves where people will be a part of a planning phase of a project and then they switch teams the moment it comes to execution.

[00:11:44] Why do they do that because there's always someone pointing a finger at the execution team did something wrong and so it's dangerous to be on an execution team because you can look bad because something will go wrong.

[00:11:54] Expectations and so you see that in big companies all the time where people are like no, I'm just on the strategy planning side I'm not on that implementation side because they want to always say face and never look bad because how do you say how do you ever look bad if you're just a planning strategy side well.

[00:12:09] And so you can always blame it on how the implementation team did and so there we have to we have to preset that expectations of saying hey, there will be stuff that comes up in implementation.

[00:12:19] There will be stuff that comes up in execution and to your to your point are you going to give this baby enough oxygen to stretch and learn and grow.

[00:12:28] Give it space to germinate and see the grow whichever analogy you want to share.

[00:12:32] You know, but it is like that story ahead of time so that when the moment comes up that we're able to address and just move forward you know to something.

[00:12:39] So the next expectations right yeah every time.

[00:12:43] Yeah, you bring up another really great point.

[00:12:48] I'm not a corporate guy like you get to that like I don't really work with companies beyond like 50 60 million.

[00:12:57] Because we lose that individual right working with the lady or the guy that's running the company it becomes more of a committee thing and we got to get more people involved and consensus.

[00:13:10] So when I was in college, I had a roommate who was very politically motivated and he wanted to be president and and I'm not politically correct.

[00:13:22] And I would just kind of be very even back then I was this very straightforward and he's like you're going to be my secretary of state.

[00:13:29] And I'm like that's a terrible idea.

[00:13:33] Because I'm not very diplomatic.

[00:13:36] And but that hope that whole politics of corporate world people in that space I don't care if it's sales or wherever they'll do more to save face than they will to save money in certain situations.

[00:13:52] Is that is that your experience?

[00:13:54] Absolutely or the right decision for the company at the end of the day.

[00:13:58] And so aligning and aligning and sent this and everything the lining culture and all that is really about how you lead in an organization.

[00:14:08] And that comes down to the culture you've set because it's very easy to get that screwed up and there's a lot of waste there.

[00:14:18] And it's to me that's that's frustrating and when we don't care about people and we don't care about the resources and we don't care about value.

[00:14:29] And we only care about the person in the mirror.

[00:14:32] It just gives me the like Ike feel and I don't want to be part of that.

[00:14:38] Yeah.

[00:14:39] That's why that's why we kind of stay in that other side of that coin.

[00:14:46] I kind of want to talk a little bit about your journey, if you will, to your entrepreneurial journey and how you got here.

[00:14:58] I mean did it started a Fortune 500 company? Did it start in the basement?

[00:15:02] It was your newspaper boy like talked to me a little bit about that and I kind of want to have a conversation about what you've learned through those challenges that popped up.

[00:15:13] Yeah, well I was very blessed.

[00:15:16] So I think one of the biggest assets in my life was my heritage.

[00:15:19] I had amazing parents grew up in Rockford, Illinois.

[00:15:22] Had a family in a manufacturing background.

[00:15:24] My great grandfather started a manufacturing company in town made the Vulcan cannon for the PT votes, a big 20 millimeter on the back.

[00:15:31] And so they did build all kinds of assembly machinery.

[00:15:35] So they don't build a certain way to know a company comes with a widget and says hey can you assemble this perfectly for us thousands of times a minute?

[00:15:42] And they build the robots that do that.

[00:15:45] So engineering, that's an interesting space for us.

[00:15:50] Yeah, that's the space.

[00:15:52] So my father's third generation, my cousin's fourth generation running that company today.

[00:15:57] But I grew up working there as a little kid, 12, 13 years old, doing our jobs and projects.

[00:16:01] And then I ended up starting a landscaping company because I got the honor of paying my own way through college with a bunch of siblings at six siblings in my parents and every other.

[00:16:10] So every other kid covered the education, and I got to be the other.

[00:16:14] And so I laid stone patios and moblons and did mulch jobs and had two employees and trucks and trailers to pay my way through school.

[00:16:22] And so I was doing that. I watched my sister get into direct sales, not of us knew anything about sales or selling or anything like that.

[00:16:28] She was a 23 year old English teacher in Aurora, Illinois at the time.

[00:16:32] And she joined a direct selling company that sold real estate education, sold seminars, how to make money, flipping houses.

[00:16:38] And it was a 20,000 dollar program.

[00:16:40] That was a two year program, three soul and there was 50% commissions.

[00:16:43] So didn't take a lot of customers to make a significant amount of income.

[00:16:46] I watched her sell 11 of those programs when I was a 16 year old kid and said wow, my sister can make six figures in her nights and weekends selling seminars.

[00:16:54] What can I do? I'm sitting here laying stone patios and said okay, I got to figure that out.

[00:16:59] So for a watcher for two years, I joined her on my 18th birthday.

[00:17:02] I was a senior in college at the time. I started university really young because I was homeschooled.

[00:17:06] And was a senior at NIEU and I signed up in their program and went through their training.

[00:17:11] And I failed miserably Walter in being. I thought I knew it all after watching for the two years.

[00:17:15] I thought I had it all, you know, this is how I'm going to do it.

[00:17:18] I'm going to tack and win zero, zero commissions, zero my first 10 months just no, no dollars.

[00:17:24] You know, you're in 10 grand a sale and I had zero in 10 months ended up getting humbled big time and just doing the real work you're supposed to do indirect sales and in that business.

[00:17:34] At 18.

[00:17:35] At 18.

[00:17:36] Yeah, so yeah. So I was very, I was very blessed of amazing mentors.

[00:17:40] You could go to the entire church with amount of people important in my life like there's dozens of dozens of just men and women I can name that have spent time with me that have given me information of trained me have just loved me enough to spend time with a kid who didn't deserve it.

[00:17:54] Like I could fill a room with just I'm amazed that somehow God chose for me to get all these great mentors in my life.

[00:18:01] And I'm just very grateful like I'm not a self-aid man. There's so many people who took time to put into my life, but so at 19 years old I sold 44 of those programs.

[00:18:10] So it changed my life forever at a whole six week come at that time and ended up buying a lot of real estate and was set up for a different way to live life.

[00:18:21] I had a bachelor's degree at 19 and the great income from selling real estate seminars ended up building a piece of technology that helped referral marketing companies like the one I was representing share compliant social media content.

[00:18:34] I sold it to a direct selling company called new Santa Health Sciences and Zango that's a MLN companies out of Salt Lake City, Utah.

[00:18:41] And I realized quickly that selling a partial solution in software wasn't the answer. Right, it's very hard when you run these large sales organizations have little one off systems you want integrated systems.

[00:18:51] And so I learned quickly that I needed to be a part of a larger system and so I partnered with Rod Kirby good and running maximum out of Houston, Texas back in 2009.

[00:19:00] So we've been together 14 years and that's been our sole focus. We've grown this little software company with seven employees to 65 whole time team members, we built over 140 large enterprise platforms for referral marketing companies.

[00:19:14] So everyone from insurance IMOs that you would know to direct sales and MLM companies to influencer marketing companies to, you know, so it just like wellness, jewelry, solar and 4x education, real estate education.

[00:19:29] I can Amazon store education. I could go down the line, a nutritional products protein powder, right, all these different products where people want to have a referral marketing arm, whether it's just affiliates or influencers network marketing any of this party plan we built a unified platform that served that entire spectrum.

[00:19:48] So if you have to see a lot, you'll learn a ton over those years fast forward. And I'll go ahead. Yeah, the influencers.

[00:19:56] That are, I mean, that wasn't happening 10 years ago. That's something you had to pivot and develop right to react to the market.

[00:20:08] Yeah, referral marketing has changed a ton over the years. I mean, if you rewind and you go back to who's the original affiliate program that was Amazon, you know, Jeff Bezos his team came up with Amazon associates years ago, that was just books, you know, if hey, here's your link and if you send them some of the Amazon will give you a few pennies.

[00:20:23] And so you had a spectrum of referral marketing happening. You know, if you go 60 years ago, you've companies like Herbalife and Amway with MLMs with actual distributors and that was a referral marketing or insurance companies with an insurance agent in an office three tiers of compensation for referral marketing.

[00:20:37] Or a real estate agent with a broker's office and referral marketing, right. These independent contractors who sell products of services and get paid commissions.

[00:20:47] And today the spectrum is expanded. There's so many different cultures of what types of referral marketing you can have in a business like on one end of a spectrum.

[00:20:55] There's just a customer rewards program, you know, refer a friend to get the $20 gift card off your next purchase. That's referral marketing affiliate market is referral marketing influencers is referral marketing.

[00:21:05] You know, pampered chef as a party plan company with that, you know, the boys from Omaha own right. Hey, that's referral marketing right then you go all the way to the spectrum of direct selling and network marketing is still referral marketing at the end of the day.

[00:21:20] And then in contractors getting paid a commission to share a product or service with the debt and customer.

[00:21:25] There's there's people out there that have two commas of income just working with affiliates and just out there pushing these deals and the incomes come through because of their network if you for lack of a better word and they're influence here.

[00:21:45] It's tied directly to the value you provide. So any form of referral marketing if you send up as a in a contract for that organization that they're agreeing to you that hey, you bring us volume will give you commissions and it what's beautiful in a referral marketing is you as the salesperson aren't responsible for the execution and delivery of the product.

[00:22:04] They are the company you're trusting that they're going to do that. You're just bringing them to customer at the end of the day. And so for many people it can be a great lifestyle. It can be wonderful to just be onboarding customers and then I'm getting to experience that company's product or services.

[00:22:19] The key is a company that's going to do a great job delivering products and services. I think you could see that somebody did certain that right ruthlessly disqualify those.

[00:22:29] It's the hardest part of the gig while they're right on like a good example that could be the solar space this year. There is a lot of people who have started solar referral marketing companies some are clients of our summer in the space and solar is a good example most solar companies after solar sales organizations don't actually put the rifts with the panels on the rifts themselves. They outsource to someone else.

[00:22:48] So how can you create a good customer experience when you're outsourcing it to all sorts of random third parties on the back end. And so that that space is struggled in a referral marketing because of that it's hard to get happy customers when you're not controlling the user experience on the back end of a brand.

[00:23:05] And so you've mixed through that. The fix is looking for organizations that win a customer for fervent the customer has a great experience because now you can create momentum as a sales person.

[00:23:17] So you're you're looking for organizations you can refer as a sales person that are going to do a great job delivering a product or service to the end customer and that's what's going to work.

[00:23:27] And that's the process that we guide companies through so a lot of my work on the last 14 years as I'm working with organizations to say hey, we sell it.

[00:23:34] Coals, we sell it Sephora but we want to have another brand as a referral marketing brand where and they want it because they want the data.

[00:23:42] They want to have that relationship with the end customer the challenge with retail won't through in Amazon there's no relationship.

[00:23:48] There's none like you don't interact you know know who your customer is you know get put them on your newsletter you don't get the communicate with them you don't get the telem how your specials

[00:23:56] like good luck doing a black Friday special on Amazon right you just drop in price is all your new for a black Friday special the lowest form of selling it's nothing else.

[00:24:05] It's not hey by by two products today we're going to donate money to plant the tree in your honor like you can't do that stuff with a Amazon and so how we're going to sponsor an orphan for meals for a year in Africa if you buy three of our products today like you can't say that stuff on Amazon

[00:24:21] and so the there's a lot of organizations who say we want to have a division where we actually know our customer and can communicate with them and we'll take our knowledge from that channel and apply it across our army channel strategy.

[00:24:35] That's been my life's worth has been helping them with that channel.

[00:24:39] So you're really taking data across industries and helping other organizations understand what works and what doesn't work based on this analysis is that part of what you do.

[00:24:51] When we provide the platforms for them to run direct sound companies so everything in their members area their commission.

[00:24:57] Would you welcome collect that data though they're collecting data they want to get house water correct so they're they're getting deeper insights on their entire sales pipeline than they would ever see.

[00:25:06] And that's the real advantage we released a report last year from the DSE FI service chair the direct selling executives form on LinkedIn group of about 400 direct selling executives who just share reports with each other and insights.

[00:25:18] And in that report we talked about how most people in the space only make decisions on transactional data things like sales subscriptions, enrollments, castellations things connected to an order happening or not happening in the world.

[00:25:30] And the challenges is that's not your whole sales pipeline there's all sorts of leading indicators that create sales in your life like a presentation or a demo or someone trying a sample of a product.

[00:25:39] And then that's not a relationship.

[00:25:41] There was yeah there was something before that there was an ad there was a predictive action something that created them getting to your webinar as an ad a phone call attacks a share of social media so there's there's basically three parts of data there's the transactional data and the leading indicators and then the stuff that created your leading the children of the leading indicators what got them to your leading indicator right in in what I have.

[00:25:59] And what I have found is that if people stay in the old model but that's they can hope for is just to hit the benchmarks of their industry if you're if you're building your whole business just looking at transactional data all you can ever hope for is to be as good as your peers you're never going to surpass them right because it's a bunch of other smart people doing the same thing.

[00:26:16] But if you could measure your whole sales pipeline what's actually happening amongst your independent sales force that's out there you make better decisions because you're smart management team and in the math it's not swelter.

[00:26:27] What are reports stated that if you could optimize your full selling process just benchmarks of our industry I even 20% like if you can just be 20% better than the benchmarks on the space the math comes out that you'll have double the revenue proactive sales person.

[00:26:40] That's it like that's the one thing inside is really in sales in general if you get 10% better at three of the performance the leading performance indicators you're you're off the charts you're almost doubling on your chart.

[00:26:56] But you're off the charts. So I mean I just opened up my brain because like in a week moment we're recording it's an early January this will drop in a couple of months but during a week moment during the holidays I saw an ad about solar stuff and I've like always been curious whether I should do that or not we got a lot of property that we could

[00:27:21] And I click the thing and you know too much eggnog and I put my number in and I have gotten I checked this this morning and I got three more today.

[00:27:31] I have had 17 phone calls to me from that me putting that information into the ad and there's no there's it comes from the same number there's no there's no real voicemail or anything it's just they just keep pounding

[00:27:49] and it's interesting because when I after I did it I went and looked to your point there was no connection to what what that agency is doing to who's actually going to show up is it tied to my utility is it tied to some guy with a pickup truck and some you know screwdrivers and hammers and stuff like that couldn't figure out the validity of it.

[00:28:15] Sure.

[00:28:16] Michelle on me for not checking that out beforehand but and you're able to help people who want to go to market in a smarter way you want to help them do better than their competition for the right reasons providing the value.

[00:28:33] So you have a we talked a little bit in the green room before we started recording can you share a little bit about and I'll put the link in the show notes can you share about that data part of your website where you where you share the data and who might be interested in there.

[00:28:51] Yeah there's we have our own podcast from the dsdf you can access at axon.com but the insights report republishing we published the twenty twenty three report still super relevant in the twenty twenty four report will be dropped by the time this episode airs if you go to maximum tour naxx you m to you are calm in the show notes.

[00:29:09] You'll be able to get a copy of that report and see an overview of what's actually working for referral marketing companies in the space and it's more work today if you think about like your responsibilities accompany right if you want to build one of these channels well there's a real strategy there there's a proven recipe of what to follow.

[00:29:28] To start and then once you're in the marketplace it all changes so fast social media changes so fast so we communicate changes so fast viral trends to change so fast that it's not about a one and done thing like launching a referral marketing channel for your business is the last thing from a one and done thing there is a certain recipe to launching but the real win is in creating daily feedback loops it's in knowing faster than your competition what's actually changing what's working what's not.

[00:29:56] So that you can adjust quicker it just as an example decades and just even a decade ago most people in a referral marketing may have two seasons a year you know where they're putting out new content or new shareables for the sales force because they want to change stuff too fast because then people don't know how to share the message and the hooks and they get all screwed up so twice a year they're going to launch the January sales convention in the August sales convention you know here's what we're going to tell everybody in sell products all the way through the spring and summer and hey here's what we're going to say through the fall.

[00:30:26] On end of the year for Christmas specials that's pretty standard across the referral marketing space that's been that way for a long time but what we found is that because of the ways of social media is changing in the way all this stuff changes so fast like you neither of us would have dreamed up a TikTok like would you have thought musically would have turned into tech talk last year's like no like none of us like none of us thought that was going to happen right and now it works on a completely different hour than Facebook and YouTube and Twitter and Instagram is not the same hour right it's just showing by it's taking account of zero

[00:30:56] followers completely viral because it's it's AI tracking the content asking who I should show this to not about follower counts so there's completely weird changes happening in our world right now and so it's a lot of feedback of literally launching with what you believe will work best

[00:31:13] and doing that and going all the way and doing that work but then looking at the feedback daily and adjusting the right things letting go what doesn't serve you and doubling down on what does and instead repetition of doing that some of our clients

[00:31:25] but doing it but doing it with yeah but you're helping them see how to make that decision yeah with good data that's based on like what's actually happening in the last 24 hours the last 30 days whatever

[00:31:42] because that it does the speed of change is you know cubby's book is it's a different context but the speed of change is is is on on warp speed right yeah

[00:31:53] and if you can do your organization from two iterations a year in your messaging and content and

[00:31:58] shareables to even monthly that you just think of the advantage over your peers your peers are doing

[00:32:02] two releases of your two iterations for just a little more to your new doing 12 right some of you are not in

[00:32:07] your 20-24 iterations a year you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna literally do 2000% more than your peers okay and I have some clients who do that they're on two-week

[00:32:17] iteration schedules right of we're going to look at the data making decisions every two weeks and because they're using predictive systems that are automated and feeding the content to their salespeople

[00:32:26] they can adjust faster it's not like they needed we do an eight hour training every two weeks they're feeding their tools new content instantly

[00:32:34] so it just updates in real time of what the salesperson's prompted to send people right and but that's the type of work we do

[00:32:41] is we build systems that allow you to iterate faster because because the world does change that fast

[00:32:45] you want to talk about the you know the super bowl special or you're gonna

[00:32:49] by this time this comes out the Easter special or whatever that is right um it's key stuff to be thinking about gang

[00:32:55] uh i love it so the the best way I mean you have this figured out and

[00:33:02] the idea that you know what we do is we help CEOs get better decisions with good data that if we give them good data

[00:33:11] they're gonna make good decisions right so there's a symbiotic thing you're giving them good data

[00:33:16] so that they can make better decisions faster and move in the right direction and you

[00:33:22] you've said that a couple of different ways you explained it so the best way for somebody that's listening to this to reach out

[00:33:28] is what my LinkedIn's in the show notes you can add me there and message me on LinkedIn or you can reach out to

[00:33:34] our team at naxen.com being glad to set up a free discovery session with you to hear more about your

[00:33:39] business and your vision and see if see if collaborating makes sense and you can quickly tell them

[00:33:46] I was I think your approach tell me if i'm wrong but you're not gonna be pitching them you're

[00:33:50] gonna be trying to figure out if you can help them yeah that's because at the end of the day we

[00:33:56] only picked the clients that we believe we're gonna thrive with together so the most important thing

[00:34:01] up front is hearing their vision knowing if A we add enough value though that it makes sense to

[00:34:04] collaborate and then B if they're willing to do the work that it's gonna take to actually execute well

[00:34:09] and only those are check check check yes or is anyone gonna move forward we also spend a ton of time

[00:34:16] pre-contract with clients sometimes very different about our firm is we spend it's not just discovery

[00:34:21] and then here sign this contract we spent a ton of time outlining configurations and layouts and

[00:34:27] everything of what the end product will be to make sure all the stakeholders are on the same page

[00:34:31] because by the time we sign a contract as they execute we don't want to have to go back to the board

[00:34:35] we don't have to go back to the stakeholders for more approvals we want to just get going and start

[00:34:40] running yeah and we want you to look good so wherever you are in your organization you're the

[00:34:44] cmo you're the VP of ops you're the you're the implementer for this visionary CEO because you're an EOS

[00:34:50] guy right we want you to look good when you hire our firm and so we spend the time up front with

[00:34:55] you pre-contract make sure we all got the plan right I would rather spend an extra eight hours on a

[00:35:00] contract pre any money moving and get it right before we execute then to execute something early

[00:35:07] and then oh my gosh you didn't tell us about that of head and now we gotta go get new approvals

[00:35:12] I see it's rushed I see it's hey we screwed this up here I want you to look good when we implement

[00:35:18] which is important and it just comes down to being willing to do the pre-contract work

[00:35:23] and when you do it you get a better result absolutely I love it last question

[00:35:31] any relationship pastor president with cigars so I like shooting clay birds I don't know if you

[00:35:37] guys are gun guys I live in Illinois which is not the most gun-friendly state but we love she's not

[00:35:43] I'll never make a won't make shotguns illegal they've made our ARs illegal this last year but

[00:35:47] shotguns or shotguns are allowed so we love shooting clay birds my last time I had a cigar with

[00:35:52] my bachelor's party 13 years ago shooting some clay birds with my brothers and what wasn't for me

[00:35:59] my brothers love it my brother is a surgeon loves cigars he's always telling about the next one

[00:36:03] so if a plastic surgeon loves them there you go but my it wasn't wasn't for me but doing

[00:36:10] it was it was a fun day so you're still shooting clay always yeah love shooting

[00:36:15] clay I play music and shoot clay is outside of business so that's what we do it's a really it's

[00:36:19] a really hard I have a good friend of mine who has ridiculous amount of shotguns and Italian ones

[00:36:25] like some very some very fancy shotguns and he goes out and it's hard it's a lot harder than

[00:36:32] people realize oh yeah um first time I ever did it I was on the back of a big sailboat um

[00:36:39] was a large clipper ship right and for some reason the captain took a shine to me and we're off

[00:36:47] the back of the boat and he's like you know we're gonna shoot clay so how does it have to shoot

[00:36:52] plates I was like well the guy's gonna shoot him off the back when we shoot him and he he

[00:36:56] hits six in a row that's awesome yeah and then handed me the shotgun and I'm like what do you want

[00:37:02] me to do with this right the boats going up and down right yeah I shot four times and missed

[00:37:10] five times it was it was hard but that's a it's a it's a fun sport and my buddy always tries to get

[00:37:19] me to come out and do it but it's uh when you're out of Chicago next time be my guest we'll go

[00:37:24] to the we'll go to our acreage and do it I I'll tell you what at all the fancy Italian shotguns

[00:37:28] I still stick to a 1890 old side by side farmer shotgun it's the most fun thing to do is to shoot

[00:37:34] something that's a almost 135 years old that you're just uh just just shoot and that's that's my

[00:37:40] favorite thing I this cost me 70 bucks it's probably the cheapest gun I've bought in my life

[00:37:44] and most of the trees get two triggers two barrels and you yeah one with a tight choke and for long

[00:37:51] range and one with an open choke for short range and so if the clay gets away from you you pull the

[00:37:56] opposite barrel and it's just it's a ton of fun for friends and anyone else to take a piece of

[00:38:00] history and get to use it shooting clay so it's always a it's a fun story it's a fun experience

[00:38:06] so that's cool love it all right man thank you for taking the time great stuff if if somebody's

[00:38:12] out there in that space bends your guy to talk to because you're gonna get data that's gonna help

[00:38:18] you stay ahead of the curve and if you get 20% better you're kicking ass exactly all three thanks

[00:38:26] for having me as a total treat have a blast day hey thanks for being part of the sales and cigar

[00:38:31] community I wanted to share that I wrote a book the seven critical mistakes CEOs make with their

[00:38:36] sales organization the CEOs you've read it tell me I cut to the chase quickly get to the point

[00:38:43] explain exactly what they're experiencing why they're experience it and how to fix it so

[00:38:48] if you want a free copy go check out the link in the show notes