Sales and Cigars | Building Confidence and Leading Through Change | Episode 185

[00:00:02] Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Healy Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars. Today, I always get to crap from the audience about not explaining what I'm smoking, so today it's a racky patelle discipline. It's a little heavier than what I normally smoke, but it's quite nice.

[00:00:20] And I'm drinking a little Penelope Valencia, which is really hard to find. So today's guest is Danielle Kobo. It was a great conversation. She lays so much value at the feet of entrepreneurs and leaders,

[00:00:36] especially sales leaders. But if you're struggling to motivate your people to help them see the potential that you know they have and they're struggling with the confidence to get there, she helps us with several little frameworks and some threads to pull through.

[00:00:54] I really encourage you to spend the 30 minutes listening to this. Go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail, strap in for another impactful episode of Sales and Cigars. Thanks. So Danielle, welcome to the program. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule to have a conversation.

[00:01:27] I am thrilled to be on the Sales and Cigars podcast, so thanks for having me. Thanks. So everybody's asked this question and I've gotten some good feedback on it, so I'm going to ask you, is there a book you gift or reread on a regular basis?

[00:01:44] There are two books that I gift or reread and enjoy thoroughly. I've made a very positive impact in my career. And the first one is 20 Days to the Top by Brian Sullivan.

[00:01:57] I read his book early on in my career and it made a profound impact in my sales career. I read his book and then the four consecutive years after reading the book, I earned presidents club for top sales performance.

[00:02:13] In fact, I recently just became a consultant for Precise Selling Formula, which I'm very excited about because it really did make a positive impact. So it's definitely a book that I recommend 20 Days to the Top by Brian Sullivan.

[00:02:29] And then if somebody is stepping into a leadership role, one of the first books that was recommended to me when I became a leader and I thoroughly recommend others is first break all the rules, all the rules, what the world's greatest managers do differently.

[00:02:47] And that's by Marcus Buckingham and Kurt Kaufman. Now, that one I have on my bookshelf. But to be honest, I haven't read it. I've thumbed through it, but I haven't read it. So we have a lot of leaders that listen to this podcast.

[00:03:08] Like, is there something in there that like, you know, what's the one thing that you would tell somebody that they should read this and how it might help them and impact them?

[00:03:17] I think, I mean, I read this years ago. So it's been a while, but I do remember something that stood out, which is don't make any changes within the first 90 days of taking over a team.

[00:03:28] So I read this book. I had been hired for a management position, but I had no direct management experience for a large pharmaceutical company. And I read this book within one week right before my interview.

[00:03:41] I had an interview for it wasn't with six of the executive leadership team and it was a three hour interview and I had to present as to how I was going to be leading this team. It was one of the poorest performing teams in the nation.

[00:03:53] And what stood out was is don't make any changes within the first 90 days. And the reason being is within the first 90 days, you're there to observe. You're there to learn. You're there to learn their business, their approach, their strengths, the areas of opportunities.

[00:04:12] You're there to build trust. If you go in and you just start making changes right away, it's going to rub people the wrong way because they're going to think even though you come with all this experience in their minds,

[00:04:24] you don't know their business as well as they do. So that was something that always stood out in my mind. So I know that like when I work with people that are stepping into new leadership roles or they're taking over new teams,

[00:04:36] or maybe the team has gone through a reorganization, you got new members on your team really take those first 90 days to observe and learn and build relationships with your team. That's awesome advice. And I've heard that in a different way from other mother folks.

[00:04:55] And I think it's sound because I have a client right now that just brought in a new general manager and that is his approach. He's really being asked a lot of questions. He's very pensive.

[00:05:09] Sometimes it's a little hard to read, but he's really trying to understand what we're doing and then why we're doing that and what's working and where do we need help? It's sort of this cadence that I think maybe he's read the book and he's bringing it through.

[00:05:28] So that gives you some support and helped you win that role, that position. Yeah. So when I interviewed for that particular position, like I said, I had no direct management experience. I happened to be interviewing for an individual contributor role.

[00:05:45] And as I was interviewing, I was showing the hiring manager this business proposal that I had created for one of the organizations that I worked with. I was 25 years old.

[00:05:55] I was working for an organization where it was a capital equipment medical company and they didn't have a sales training program. And after reading the book 20 days to the top, and I saw what a positive impact having actual sales training would make,

[00:06:12] I realized like this was a huge opportunity within our organization that I could see the value in us and the growth. And so I created this business proposal. It had the title of the position, which was National Director of Sales Training, the roles and responsibilities.

[00:06:28] It was an outline compensation plan tagged to the overall growth of the organization, but also the attainment of the new hires within the six months and one year. So I had this business proposal that I created. Now they ended up creating the position for that organization,

[00:06:47] but I happened to have left before they created it because I was recruited to another organization. But as I was interviewing for this individual contributor role, I was presenting this business proposal and the hiring manager asked me, she said, would you be interested in a leadership role?

[00:07:03] And I said, absolutely, I'd love to, but I also recognize I don't have like direct leadership experience. I've mentored people, I've coached people, but I didn't have that direct management experience. And she says, well, would you consider doing it anyways? And I said, absolutely.

[00:07:17] So I had about a week to prepare and I reached out to managers that I knew. I scheduled one-on-one calls with them. I asked, I would do like an hour call with the different managers that I had built relationships with over the years.

[00:07:31] I'd ask them different questions about what it means to be a leader. What do they feel like are the skill sets? What are some of the misconceptions? What are some things I may not know about?

[00:07:41] And I interviewed all these managers and then one of them had mentioned this book. And so I read this book within the week before the interview and then I interviewed and I got the position. Awesome.

[00:07:52] But you went through, I mean, you were preparing for what you're doing now back when you're in your mid-20s. Yeah. Which wasn't that long ago, but it, it, you started that process. 20 years ago.

[00:08:06] Okay. Well, you shared, not me, but I mean, but, but you had that sort of built into your DNA. So like be curious to, to be looking for ways to improve upon and fill gaps. And that's what I, what I look at.

[00:08:24] And I think it kind of ties in with what you were saying is if I would, if I go in and start to look at a team and I'm going to spend, you know, 90 days evaluating and then I'm going to be able to do that.

[00:08:33] And I see that as well. And when it comes to evaluating and understanding and, and really gathering the information about what they're doing well. I'm looking for the little gaps, right? Because they do want a lot of things well usually. It doesn't change and upset the Apple cart,

[00:08:52] but it just gets them to start to head in a different direction just a little bit. And I think those are the things that I wish I had that information when I got my first manager's role because I like you, like why are you giving me this job?

[00:09:09] I don't know, I've never done this before. And they're like, well, you're good salesperson, top performer, yeah, but what does that have to do with anything? Right, not always a top performer leads to the best manager. It's a very different skill sets.

[00:09:23] It is and it took a lot of time and patience on everybody's part for me to start to figure that out, like how to coach people and how to ask the right questions. What helped me at a very high level

[00:09:38] is it's a lot like selling in the sense that if you go in curious and you go in with a little bit of skepticism and asks a lot of questions and look for those opportunities, it's the leadership part that I've always struggled with. And I'm being really honest.

[00:10:00] And that's one of the reasons why I was excited to talk to you about today and we'll kind of get to that in a minute. So you were in sales and then you moved into a manager leadership role. Talk a little bit about like how you progressed

[00:10:14] through that and to get to where you are today. You had a sales foundation. Yeah, the sales foundation. So I started my career in medical sales. Well, my whole career has been in medical sales. I started in dental sales where I was in dental sales for five years.

[00:10:29] That's where I earned the four consecutive President's Clubs awards for top performance. Then I transitioned into medical aesthetics. And most recently I was a senior sales manager for Fortune 500 organization in the medical aesthetic industry. And in that role, it was very unique

[00:10:48] in the sense that I remember one manager telling me early on when I was first in leadership. And they said, what you've experienced within your first two years in leadership is what most managers don't experience within their first 10. And the reason being is,

[00:11:04] is within the first two years of me being in a leadership role, the company that I was with had been acquired. We had acquired another organization and we had gone through an attempted hostile takeover from our competitor, where if the company had taken us over,

[00:11:23] that he was secretly buying shares and trying to take us over, it would have created a monopoly within our industry. And so it ended up going to court. They ended up squashing it. They couldn't do the takeover. We ended up being acquired by a larger organization.

[00:11:38] But I went through restructuring where I lost four out of the eight people on my team within the first two years of me taking over a leadership position. I relocated from the Southern California to the Southeast region. We had acquired companies, companies had acquired us.

[00:11:57] We had gone through expansions. We had gone through downsizing. So really talking about being agile and adaptable and resilient were some of the skills that I learned early on as a leader. I mean, that's a really good description. Like you got 10 years and two years of experience

[00:12:16] and that's why resilience is a thread that I, as I see when I look at your digital footprint, that's a big part of being able to withstand all that chaos. Is that a good word for, I mean- It certainly felt chaotic because anytime that there's acquisitions, restructuring

[00:12:41] there's a lot of unknown and there's a lot of assumptions and a lot of rumors and rumors can create chaos within an organization. And so yeah, I agree that chaos would probably be a word to describe going through many of those challenges.

[00:12:56] But I mean, you're testing your resiliency, you're testing your confidence, you're testing your abilities to navigate that and learn how to communicate with different folks at different times about different things. That's a, so you work through all that

[00:13:13] and then you decided to go do this on your own to hang your own shingle as they say? Is that- Yeah, so it's interesting because I look back and I go, wow, I really did even though the company that I had proposed that business proposal

[00:13:31] for the National Director of Sales Training even though they had created the position after I had left the organization I ultimately ended up doing the position because that's what I do now but as my own business owner and it's been extremely rewarding.

[00:13:45] There was a series of events that took place in 2020 where I just felt like I was called to do something different. My husband in 2019, he served a year deployment in Iraq. At the time I was leading a team across five states I was traveling every single week

[00:14:04] while my kids were between the ages of one and a half and two and a half years old. Holy crap, talk about chaos. Yeah, well I would say organized chaos. I knew going into that year that I was gonna need to be very intentional with my time

[00:14:21] and so I was very fortunate. We had a full-time nanny. My mother, my in-laws moved across the street from us so they were always, when I was traveling for work they were either always with my in-laws, my nanny or sometimes I flew my parents out

[00:14:37] so they were always stability for my kids and I was just very intentional about my time and where I spent my time with and who I said yes to and who I said no. Not at this moment right now. And so he comes back from deployment.

[00:14:52] It was difficult while he was gone. What I did not anticipate was the returning home. We were very different people. He had just come from a war zone. He's used to directing soldiers in high stakes environment. I'm used to having conversation with toddlers

[00:15:10] that when he left they were in cribs, they were drinking out of bottles, they were learning to walk. He comes back and they're sleeping in toddler beds and they're formulate latent sentences and have opinions. He wasn't used to them having opinions

[00:15:23] on what they wanted to eat, not eat. He's like, what is this? Right. And so he comes back from deployment and that really kind of shifted my perspective on what I wanted out of life and where I wanted to be.

[00:15:36] I didn't want to be on the road as much as I was. And then unfortunately a couple months later I had lost my mom and that really was devastating. And then the pandemic hit. That was a week after losing my mom. And then right after that,

[00:15:51] the company that I had been with for seven years got acquired by another organization and it became a very toxic work environment. I mean, there are people there that have been there for 25, 30 years, 15 years that ended up leading the organization. And so all of these events

[00:16:05] that transpired within a six month period, I really took a step back and looked at myself in the mirror one day and said, what do I want to be known for? Like, what do I want my legacy to be? What brings me the most joy?

[00:16:24] And I love the coaching and the development. I did not love the administrative work. I didn't love being on the road all the time as much as I was. I felt like a lot of what I was doing sometimes in corporate was doing more of the administrative work

[00:16:38] than it was just the coaching and development. And so I said, how can I just lean in more into what do I enjoy doing? And that's what sparked me creating this business. I've been doing it for about four years. I help either individuals attract their dream job.

[00:16:54] So I help them with resume writing, interview coaching. I help them with getting promoted. So what are the skillsets they need to get to promoted? Or I work with individuals and organizations on leadership development and sales training. So I've had, and it's been so rewarding

[00:17:10] because I've had clients who have been promoted. I've had clients who have earned president's club, multiple clients who have earned president's club for the first time. You know, organizations that I've done leadership trainings and to see multiple people get promoted within the organization.

[00:17:26] It's been such a rewarding segment of my career that I have just been so fulfilling. Tire being part of another fun episode of sales and cigars. Let me ask you a question. Are you tired of struggling to hire sales talent that's gonna move the needle for your company?

[00:17:44] Well, maybe you should attend my sales hiring secrets program and discover the number one mistake that business owners are making with hiring sales talent in your organization. The details are in the show notes, click on the page, it gives you all the details.

[00:17:59] It gives you everything you need to know to solve the problem of sales talent on your team. Thanks. It's a, I appreciate that story. To me, we're running a business so we need to earn income and create revenue. Right, that goes without saying.

[00:18:18] But the thing that gets us out of bed in the morning, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it's those days when that individual that you've been working with, it's maybe been struggling, but finally takes a step forward and they call you and say,

[00:18:37] you know that deal we were working on closed and it's better than what we thought or they get the promotion. I have one sales guy who calls me like when he's on his way in the car on the way home from the week

[00:18:49] and he tells me all these stories about how, you know how much he's having fun. And those are the things that like, I always tell him like, you made my day, right? Cause, you know, he's not giving me, it's not the praise, it's just like watching somebody win.

[00:19:07] That's the point. That's really the, you know, what do you want to be known for? It's like it's helping people, you know, reach their dreams. It's knowing that they can do something that they're not quite sure that they can do

[00:19:20] and we believe in it more than they do. And then they go do it watching that expression on their face or the sound of their voice. That's the real joy. It's helping them build confidence and whether that's confidence in pursuing a new position or whether it's confidence

[00:19:37] in going after a new sales opportunity. But when you can help somebody build their confidence, it creates a ripple effect within themselves in multiple areas in their life. But it also creates a ripple effect at home as well because they start showing up more confident

[00:19:56] in all areas of their life. And then they start building relationships with people at home, you know? Like you think about somebody who is lacking confidence and they're drained with work and they're not enjoying their work, how are they going to be showing up at home?

[00:20:10] And how is that going to be affecting the people that they're interacting with on a day-to-day basis? Versus somebody who's, I love my job, I'm confident in what I'm doing, they're gonna stand a little bit taller, they're gonna be more enjoyable to be around at home.

[00:20:26] It's that ripple effect that you get to create when you get to really help somebody achieve their goals and build their confidence. And that's all true. It's whatever, like if you're said, old dad is where people had a bad day,

[00:20:38] they come home and want to kick the dog, right? It goes beyond that. I had a job that I did really well in, it's financially rewarding, but I hated every moment of it. And my wife said, like, why are you doing this?

[00:20:56] And I'm like, look at the numbers. Right, I mean, that's not a reason to do it. That's not. And she's right. And she gave me the space to go do something different. And so I owe her that with what I put into this

[00:21:17] to be able to live my dream because she gave me that permission, if you will, and told me that I didn't have to do that. And I think there's a lot of people that are stuck in that environment. So you talk about gaining confidence

[00:21:34] and I truly believe that that thread will run through your whole life. Friends, family, your work, any volunteer work that you're doing, it'll all kind of multiply. But how do you help somebody that is struggling that they just don't believe

[00:21:53] they can do the next thing that they need to do? Is there a magic wand or is there some framework or structure that you use without giving away all your secrets? Yeah, so there's a lot of frameworks that I go through in my book. My book, Unstoppable Grit,

[00:22:11] it leads with each chapter, it leads with the story, the learning lessons and practical advice and exercises that reader can apply to their life to help them better themselves. And a lot of times what people forget is they forget every, they forget the accomplishments

[00:22:30] that they've made along the way to get them to where the point that they're at now. And so when I'm working with somebody, whether they're looking for a new job or whether they're in sales, like let's talk about some of the challenges that you've experienced in life.

[00:22:46] And what steps did you take to get over them? And they'll kind of downplay them. And they'll say, oh, but that's not that beg of a deal. I'm like, no, no, no, don't discredit what you accomplished. Because a lot of times our strengths

[00:23:08] come so natural us that sometimes we'll say, oh, well it's not that big of a deal or everybody does it. I'm like, no, no, no, that's a strength that a lot of people wish that they had, that you have. So let's really leverage that particular strength.

[00:23:22] I'll often say too, your imperfect is somebody's perfect. Wow. Your imperfect is somebody's perfect. So a lot of times we'll get caught in the comparison trap of saying, well that person's more successful. They have more skill sets. And I say, yes, they do have those skill sets,

[00:23:43] but what skill sets do you have that they don't have? What is it that people see in you? And if you don't know what that is, one simple exercise that I did early on when I was really trying to go through this period

[00:23:55] of self-reflection is I went on Facebook one day and I said, if there was two words that you could use to describe me, what would it be? And people were saying, motivating, inspiring, empowering, grit, resilience, driven. I'm going, wow, if this is what people are seeing in me

[00:24:18] and I'm not seeing it myself, then I'm doing myself a disservice. Were you not seeing yourself in that light, those words? I was, but not to the level that other people were. I think that I had gone through that six month period

[00:24:33] where there was so much chaos and uncertainty and devastation with losing my mom and the toxic work environment and how the toxicity was affecting my mental health that I was losing confidence during that six month period. And so it was just a little bit to remind me

[00:24:55] that I'm so much more than I give myself credit for. And everybody else is so much more than they often give themselves credit for. Is that, and maybe you probably have an opinion on this, maybe you have some insights, but that's pretty common. Right?

[00:25:13] Because you were describing like, what do you do well? I'll say, yeah, well, that wasn't that big of a deal. I could hear myself saying, yeah, that's not that big of a deal. Everybody does that. And I think if we just realize the things that,

[00:25:28] as a leader, if we can help draw that out as a manager, if we can help draw that out of our team, that when they're in a slump or when they're just struggling to get to the next level, it's helping them see that they have within them

[00:25:45] what it takes to do it and sort of kind of bestow this confidence on them. But they gotta pick up the baton and take it too, right? They gotta believe it. They do. They do. And think about is, in those situations when somebody is lacking confidence,

[00:25:59] we thrive on positive reinforcement. We thrive on affirmations. And so it's one thing for us to try to tell ourselves that but when other people say it, that's where it really builds the confidence. So I believe it's beneficial whether you're hearing it from a manager, a colleague,

[00:26:19] or you're working with a career coach, but somebody other than you to show you what you may not be seeing yourself. And those of us who think we don't need to hear that, we're probably wrong, right? Absolutely. I mean, there's been so many studies out there

[00:26:40] that say we thrive on positive reinforcement. We thrive on hearing what we're doing well. If we hear what we're doing well, we're gonna do more of it. And that hasn't changed like when we were little kids, right? The positive affirmations, the admonishments when that we do something wrong

[00:27:02] but the positive rewarding of just a smile. I read something about like how even an infant can recognize a positive smile, the facial expressions of their parents and that helps them motivate themselves as even as infants. The brain working that way even as little people.

[00:27:27] And that doesn't change as we get older, it just becomes more complicated to get started. No, I mean there is a couple weeks ago I was just having a rough day. I think my parents, my kids were acting up, they were just running around Walgreens.

[00:27:40] I was just exhausted. And I always like to say that my six year old twins have more energy than a squirrel on a triple espresso. Like that's the energy levels that they have. And I remember walking out of Walgreens

[00:27:53] and this teenage girl looked at me and she says, I hope you're having a great day. And it's interesting because her friend was like, why did you say that to a random stranger? And I happened to be wearing my sweatshirt

[00:28:08] of the church that I go to when we go to the same church. And she said, well, she's wearing this sweatshirt from the church that we go to, so we go to the same church. But I remember walking away going, wow,

[00:28:17] I was having such a bad day, but just hearing from a stranger, I hope you're having a great day. Just gave me just a little bit boost of just happiness. Like it felt good to be seen and heard and acknowledged. So even more powerful, I mean,

[00:28:33] that just landed for you at the right time and we can rationalize that in a bunch of different ways as to why it happened, but it happened and it gave you that little giddy up in your step for what you needed to go corral the twins. Boys?

[00:28:51] Yes, our twin boys. I have a daughter when she was little, she had mostly girlfriends and we went to a boys party where it was mostly boys. And I was, I just didn't know what to do because there was all of this energy running around

[00:29:14] and my daughter looked at me, she's like, dad, is that crazy? And I'm like, well, they got a lot of energy so you don't have to figure out a way to get in there and mix it up.

[00:29:23] She did, it took her a minute, but I was just like the boy energy and girl energy at that level is wildly different, I don't know how you do it. Well, and I say too, they're the kids of the bloodline of a Black Hawk pilot.

[00:29:39] My husband's an adrenaline seeking Black Hawk pilot and then there's me who's just like very go getter type personalities. So they've got two parents that are very go getters and then they feed off of each other too because they're the same age. So oftentimes they'll go to school,

[00:29:55] they'll go to after school care, they'll go to karate and then they'll come home and we'll build obstacle courses in the house to try to burn out the rest of the energy. Yeah, that's a lot of energy and that's probably not gonna go away as they get older.

[00:30:09] It's just gonna get bigger. Yeah, just hopefully they're totally involved in sports. Yeah. So it's giving that as a leader to really install that confidence in our team is helping them sometimes we have to help them see the things that they can't see for themselves

[00:30:32] and help them see that they've accomplished a lot and that they have within them what they need to do. And that's really the job of a coach, right? Is to help somebody see the things that we know that they can do and go accomplish it

[00:30:50] that where they have that self doubt. And you know, a lot of talk obviously you wanna highlight their strengths and there's always gonna be times where there's areas of opportunity or maybe some areas that you wanna focus on that they need to develop.

[00:31:07] And I'm a big believer instead of feedback providing feed forward coaching. And so what that sounds like is I noticed you did XYZ in that business meeting. If you were to do ABC, you will achieve these goals. So let's say for example,

[00:31:26] I noticed in that meeting you did a great job going through the features and benefits of the product. If you were to ask some questions before going into the features and benefits you might be able to better understand what's important to them

[00:31:42] and be a little more honed in on what benefits are gonna best support their immediate needs. So with Seth, if you do, I noticed you did this. If you do this, you will achieve that type coaching. And do you give them like in that scenario

[00:32:05] you know, from a sales perspective do you help them see that that shortens their sales cycle that gives them speed in the process or do you just let them start to figure that out? Well, I'll open a discussion. So anytime I go on a field co-travel

[00:32:22] with somebody on my team okay, let's get in the car. What did we do well? What are three things that we did really well in that appointment? What are two things that maybe didn't go so well in that appointment? Maybe we weren't as prepared.

[00:32:36] Maybe we didn't ask any questions, whatever it is. And then maybe what are two things that we would do differently if given the opportunity to have that appointment again? I believe that in life and in business we get so focused on going forward and working towards our goal

[00:32:54] that we don't take a step back to reflect on what is currently going on. So in business, if we don't take a step back and take a pause and go what's really working in my business? What's not working in my business? What are maybe some things

[00:33:10] I should do differently in my business? That's where the growth comes from. And I used to do that as a manager. As a manager every quarter my team would get together and I would give a marker, it'd be a whiteboard and a dry erase marker or somebody

[00:33:25] and I said, okay, I want you guys to write down one person's gonna transcribe for confidentiality purposes. I want you to transcribe what should I start doing as a leader and what should we start doing as a team? What should I stop doing as a leader

[00:33:46] and what should we stop doing as a team and what should I continue doing and what should as a team we continue doing? And I would walk out of the room and however long it took for them, sometimes it'd be 10 minutes, sometimes it'd be a half hour.

[00:33:59] I walk back in the room and then they would tell me exactly what those answers are because I believe they're so important to really look at who we are in our business and find areas to grow but also really highlight the things that are working well.

[00:34:19] It starts with vulnerability as a leader and the manager doing that. Absolutely, absolutely. And then it allows everybody else to feel comfortable sharing and then we have to go make those changes, make sure we really understand what it is that we're looking for, what they're looking for

[00:34:37] and then make the adjustments as we can to keep progressing and to make progress in those areas. Those are some great ideas for the leaders out there to kind of work into their system. I love the well better different, right?

[00:34:56] And there's various ways that you can implement those and it gives you so much flexibility whether you're doing a debrief or a pre-call plan. It works just about anywhere in any type of coaching environment. So I'm never gonna ask my team

[00:35:13] to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. And in sales, a lot of sales managers will do field co-travels and they'll provide feedback. But sometimes it feels like they're always as a sales representative, it feels like I'm always the one receiving the feedback.

[00:35:29] When do I get an opportunity to give my manager feedback? And so when the manager is willing to be vulnerable and willing to say, hey, I want your guys' feedback, it creates a different dynamic in a relationship. It comes a two-way street, not a one-way street.

[00:35:47] And also too by asking what are the things you wanna start doing? It's getting us focused on problem solving solutions not just a complaining session. It's like, okay, here's what I'm not doing. Well, what could I be doing differently? Right, it forces them to think about the solution

[00:36:08] that they want rather than just throw out the problem and at your feet and now you gotta figure it out. I love it, it's all great. So can you share with the audience, your book, you shared a few ideas from it as to who it would help,

[00:36:28] but from an entrepreneurial perspective, somebody that's running a business, they've reached a certain point and they're trying to get to the next level and they really need to get their team to buy into their vision. Is there a section in the book

[00:36:42] that that would be something that would be applicable and where do they go get the book? So the book Unstoppable Grit, how to break through the seven roadblocks standing between you and achieving your goals. Chapter nine, I tell the story of the time

[00:36:59] that I lost four out of the eight people on my team in one day. Here's the caveat to that story. I had no idea what's happening. The call that, yep, I received, I was on a field co-travel with a member of my team.

[00:37:15] I got a call from my manager and he said, just two statements, you have a job but don't answer your phone today. That's it and then hung up. And so here I am in a business meeting with a member of my team. We go in the business meeting,

[00:37:33] we step out of the business meeting, we go back into the car and we go through those, kind of going through the coaching session of, okay, what went well in the appointment? What would you do differently? Da-da-da. And my phone is just like constantly ringing

[00:37:44] and ringing and ringing, but I'm not supposed to answer it. And my team member looks at me, she goes, aren't you gonna answer that? And I'm like, oh no, this is our quality time. I'll respond to these messages on my way home. And then her phone starts ringing

[00:37:58] and she's like, do you mind if I answer it? Selfishly, I'm kind of like, yeah, please do. I wanna know what's going on. Um, the first call was from a girl on my team who had been with the organization for over five years.

[00:38:14] She was really like my leader on the team. She was somebody that I could always go to to get a pulse of what's going on with the team. And on the other line I hear from her, I've just been let go. Wow. Then a second call comes in,

[00:38:32] because of course then they find out I'm with this individual. So then they just start calling her. So then I hear from another person on the other line, now this person was my newest new hire. She was a resilient single mother

[00:38:45] who had just been with the company for just a couple months. She had just been let go. Then there was another person who had been on sabbatical leave battling breast cancer and she had been let go.

[00:38:59] So I had lost four out of the eight people on my team and one day I had no idea it was happening. The four other remaining people, their territories all changed. And so in the book I tell the story

[00:39:14] but then I talk about how can you effectively lead yourself and how can you effectively lead a team through change? But the cool thing is about this particular chapter is I break it down in three sections. What to do as the individual,

[00:39:31] what to do as a sales manager and what to do if you're an entrepreneur. Because as an entrepreneur we go through changes too. Like if an organization goes through layoffs maybe they're not gonna be in, maybe they're gonna be doing other cuts

[00:39:43] to businesses that they work with as well. So I break it down into three different sections. I love it. That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. So unstoppable grant, they get it wherever they get books, they get it from your website. Amazon. Okay. I love it.

[00:39:59] And I would encourage people to go out and take a look at that. I know I'm gonna go grab a copy because there's a couple of chapters I think that can help me with my, upping my skills in certain areas.

[00:40:12] So I thank you for sharing these wonderful frameworks and ideas. So last question, Daniel. Relationship with cigars because you're in the Tampa area pretty close to Emore City. I know. Any relationship past or present with cigars? So I am married to somebody who is half Cuban.

[00:40:32] So cigars are a part of the culture. My father-in-law is an immigrant from Cuba. He came on the Peter Pan flights when he was 11 years old, living in orphanage until he was 13 and then became a general surgeon, one a very prominent general surgeon in the United States.

[00:40:49] So he is truly what embodies living the American dream. And that's one of the reasons why my husband joined the military is he wanted to give back to the country that gave to our, to his family. So yeah, they smoke cigars.

[00:41:05] It's part of, you know, I have cigar boxes that are on my bookshelf over here. I've got a humididor. I don't smoke cigars. That's not my thing, but it just always kind of remind me, anytime I see a cigar, I think of my father-in-law and my husband.

[00:41:19] That's a great story. I appreciate that. And the Cuban immigrant, my wife is German and one of her cousins who are both 100% German. She married a Cuban first generation American and it's fun to be sort of this observer of the Cuban culture with the German culture

[00:41:45] and the hugging and the loud and it's completely different, but they persevere, right? They just like, we're gonna be a family and it's so fun to watch. And whenever I get to go over there, Manny and his dad and I go out onto the deck

[00:42:05] and have a cigar and look over the Hudson. It's a fun thing. So that's a great story. Thank you for sharing. Again, thank you for joining us. Lots of great information. For folks who out there went a little bit, more information go to your website.

[00:42:23] That'll be in the show notes. They can reach out to you and dig in a little deeper. And connect with me on LinkedIn. Cool. Thank you, Danielle, appreciate it. Thank you.