Sales and Cigars | Greg Giniel | Why Does a Visionary Leader Need EOS? | Episode 157

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Felix Sales Development, your host of Sales & Cigars.

[00:00:05] Today's episode is for visionaries, the business owner, the CEO who's trying to get out of

[00:00:13] the day-to-day of their business and wants to have that freedom to be a visionary, to

[00:00:18] be the idea person and work on their passion.

[00:00:22] So my guest is Greg Janell, who's that EOS implementer and his role is to give

[00:00:28] that visionary a way to get out of that seat that you want to get out of, to give you the

[00:00:34] pathway to do that.

[00:00:36] So go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail strap in for another insightful episode of Sales & Cigars.

[00:00:42] Greg, welcome to the program.

[00:01:07] I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule.

[00:01:10] Yeah, thanks Walter.

[00:01:11] I'm glad to be here and to chit chat about what we have in store for you here today.

[00:01:18] Great.

[00:01:19] So let's tee up a little bit.

[00:01:21] Let's talk a little bit about your journey, your entrepreneurial journey, your career

[00:01:29] and how you landed in being, taking this leap as an EOS and implementing EOS for companies.

[00:01:37] And I always make this stupid joke that when we were 10-year-old boys, we didn't

[00:01:43] think we were going to be doing what we're doing today.

[00:01:46] So why don't we talk a little bit about how you got here and then we'll dive into the EOS

[00:01:52] conversation.

[00:01:53] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:01:54] So I started in the mortgage industry in 03 and 06.

[00:01:59] I became a loan officer because I seen what the craziness that was happening at that

[00:02:05] time and to be a loan officer, you're in sales.

[00:02:11] And I really saw that people were being taken advantage of and they were not being cared

[00:02:19] for properly.

[00:02:20] At that time, if you could fog a mirror and hold a business card, you could be a loan

[00:02:26] officer.

[00:02:27] But that's the criteria for most sales jobs.

[00:02:32] If you're able to move and say hello, you're going to be in sales but I don't

[00:02:40] know, absolutely.

[00:02:42] And so I just knew I could treat people better.

[00:02:46] I will never forget it.

[00:02:48] I was at a closing and the loan officer met me at the client's house in Bath, Michigan

[00:02:55] at eight o'clock in the evening.

[00:02:58] And when the loan officer would meet me at the client's house, I knew that they

[00:03:02] were making bank and this was during the subprime heyday.

[00:03:07] Now, I'm capitalist.

[00:03:08] I'm all for making money.

[00:03:10] It's working me wrong.

[00:03:12] But there's making money and there's rape.

[00:03:16] And so he said, how well do you describe the fees?

[00:03:20] And I said, hey, I describe the fees.

[00:03:23] If they ask me, then I'm going to tell them where the fees are going to go

[00:03:28] to but I'm not going to lament the fact that you're really raking them

[00:03:31] over the cold.

[00:03:32] And I'll never forget it, Walter.

[00:03:35] The loan officer sitting across from me, the borrower is sitting on my right.

[00:03:38] He has two beautiful little girls in the background and his beautiful wife

[00:03:42] comes up to him and he's doing one of these jobs.

[00:03:46] And she puts her hand on his shoulder and she says, honey, what's wrong?

[00:03:51] And he goes, I know if I sign this, we're going to lose our house in two years.

[00:03:57] And if I don't, we're going to lose it in six months.

[00:04:00] And the loan officer just sat there and said, well, what are you going to do?

[00:04:03] So they closed the loan and I just, I couldn't stomach being a part of that.

[00:04:09] And so that's why I became a loan officer.

[00:04:11] Journey went from there to cutting my teeth as a salesperson,

[00:04:15] learning how to build referral relationships to then starting my company in 2016.

[00:04:23] And in 2019, and tell me if you've ever experienced some of this or

[00:04:30] you know, people that have had, I had really some frustrations about running the business.

[00:04:36] I had a lack of control.

[00:04:39] The business was running me.

[00:04:41] I wasn't running it.

[00:04:42] I was going in on a daily basis and I was putting out dumpster fires.

[00:04:47] And so I became a fireman, not a business owner.

[00:04:52] And so that was one thing.

[00:04:53] The next was people.

[00:04:56] I was frustrated with my employees, right?

[00:04:59] My vendors, my customers, my partners.

[00:05:02] And they didn't seem to understand what I was trying to get through and communicate.

[00:05:10] And then the third thing was profit.

[00:05:13] It was just simply it wasn't enough.

[00:05:17] And I mean, at the end of the day, what are we in business for?

[00:05:21] Right?

[00:05:21] Just to make a good living, make a decent profit.

[00:05:24] And then the other thing is, Walter, I was really wanting to grow and we were hitting

[00:05:30] ceiling.

[00:05:31] It was just no matter what we did to grow, nothing was working.

[00:05:37] And so what ended up happening is we ended up having kind of a flavor of the month

[00:05:43] type idea.

[00:05:45] And God forbid I listened to a book as a business owner.

[00:05:48] Right?

[00:05:51] Yep.

[00:05:52] We're going, hey guys,

[00:05:53] I got a new idea.

[00:05:55] And I started to create this organizational whiplash where I would turn my head this way,

[00:06:01] the whole organization would follow.

[00:06:03] And then the next month we're on this other journey doing this other cockamamie idea.

[00:06:09] And so that led me to EOS.

[00:06:14] I was driving in my car and I literally looked up at the ceiling and I said, please

[00:06:19] God send me someone to help me wrangle in this mess.

[00:06:23] And I'm pronounced to me later that day, I was talking to someone in business

[00:06:26] development in the mortgage field.

[00:06:29] And he said, hey, you know, Mike and I go, yeah, I know of Mike and he goes, do

[00:06:34] me a favor.

[00:06:36] He's trying to help business owners.

[00:06:38] Would you mind taking his call?

[00:06:39] And so there I am like a schmuck having this guy call me because I'm

[00:06:44] trying to keep this relationship warm with this connector.

[00:06:49] And then he delivered the what we call is a vision traction health conversation.

[00:06:57] And next thing I know, I'm in a 90 minute conversation with him meeting.

[00:07:01] And he was showing me how to strengthen the six key components of EOS.

[00:07:07] And so nice segue, Greg.

[00:07:11] Nice segue because that's where we wanted to go.

[00:07:15] So you were the entrepreneur, you were the guy that read The Pumpkin Plan one week.

[00:07:21] And then you read like a scaling up type book and then you read a book like Traction.

[00:07:28] Right? So you're going in all these different directions.

[00:07:31] Your people are tired and getting lost and they don't have the patients,

[00:07:38] the people that were following Moses for 40 years in the desert.

[00:07:42] Now that'll joke.

[00:07:43] Could I get a look at that map here?

[00:07:44] Because we've been traveling around for quite a while.

[00:07:50] So the six key components in terms of EOS and let's kind of describe EOS.

[00:08:02] I'll describe it the way I understand it.

[00:08:03] I'm not an implementer.

[00:08:05] I work with a bunch of clients who have that use EOS to run their business.

[00:08:11] And I've learned it by baptism, by fire.

[00:08:14] But to me, it's a way of thinking about your business.

[00:08:20] It's a way of strategizing about your business and it's a way of executing

[00:08:25] on the strategies in your business in a structure that isn't really a straight jacket

[00:08:35] gives you some flexibility to navigate.

[00:08:38] Sure.

[00:08:40] But it is a structure to help you understand, do I have the right person in the right seat?

[00:08:45] Am I following my real purpose here?

[00:08:48] Am I following the vision that I put together originally?

[00:08:53] And if I'm not, should I change my direction or should I change my vision?

[00:08:58] Right? It really forces you to look at things the right way.

[00:09:01] So and I think the other thing I'll say, and then I'll stop talking

[00:09:05] so you can answer a question, but it's not something that

[00:09:11] people should enter into lightly and without some guidance

[00:09:15] because we need some objectivity as an entrepreneur.

[00:09:20] No matter what kind of a conversation we have,

[00:09:23] we really need that objective person to come along and say,

[00:09:26] yeah, but this is what you said six months ago.

[00:09:31] So what's changed, right?

[00:09:33] Enforcing that those harder conversations.

[00:09:37] So why don't you talk about the six key components and then tell me how wrong I am?

[00:09:43] No, I feel like you're pretty spot on.

[00:09:46] You know, EOS really, you know, Gina Wickman, who wrote the book Traction,

[00:09:52] he didn't create any new theories.

[00:09:56] He just took all the really good theories.

[00:09:59] But what he did was is that he compiled them into a really complete system

[00:10:08] with really simple but powerful tools that help you execute that.

[00:10:13] And so when we're talking about this business model in EOS,

[00:10:19] it shouldn't be taken lightly because you're you're changing

[00:10:22] the way the fundamental way you run your business, right?

[00:10:27] And so any time that you do that, you should be taking that seriously.

[00:10:31] And one of the big things is making sure that you implement all of it.

[00:10:39] For instance, if I were to go on this computer

[00:10:42] and implement two thirds of an operating system,

[00:10:46] this computer is not going to work that well, right?

[00:10:48] Right. And so if you go and pick and choose some bits and pieces out of EOS,

[00:10:56] it's not going to work as well as you would hope it would be.

[00:10:59] And so when we're talking about the six key components,

[00:11:04] I'll go through them just briefly.

[00:11:06] We're talking about the vision key component,

[00:11:09] the people key component, the data key component,

[00:11:15] issues, process, interaction.

[00:11:19] And so you had brought up earlier that vision part, right?

[00:11:24] And so we have it's incumbent upon us, the business owner

[00:11:29] to share our vision with our team and to share it on a regular basis.

[00:11:36] You know, there's a there's an old joke out there, right?

[00:11:39] You've got to tell someone seven times before they remember

[00:11:44] what you're telling them.

[00:11:46] And the joke is that it's an average.

[00:11:49] You've got to tell guys 15 times a woman once, right?

[00:11:52] But in all earnest, we have to hear this over and over again.

[00:11:57] And what it does is when we as a business owner

[00:12:01] share that vision on a regular basis,

[00:12:06] the team starts to internalize that and makes it their own.

[00:12:10] And if they don't, they're probably not right people, right?

[00:12:15] Because they're not on that same boat wanting to go the same

[00:12:19] place that you want to go.

[00:12:22] And so there's one component in there that I kind of want to hit now

[00:12:27] that the book I wrote, we talk about sharing the vision

[00:12:32] and having the strategy and connecting that.

[00:12:35] And what I see often with companies that aren't running EOS

[00:12:40] is that the business owner will share their vision,

[00:12:43] will talk about it, put it up on the fucking wall

[00:12:47] so people can read it, right?

[00:12:50] But they don't help the individual employee

[00:12:55] understand what they can do in their role

[00:12:59] within their job function to help everybody realize that vision.

[00:13:03] Right? And with EOS, that happens faster and easier

[00:13:10] that they know as a shipping clerk or as an admin

[00:13:15] or as an engineer that if we're trying to reach 10,000

[00:13:20] new customers in the course of 10 years,

[00:13:24] what can I do to add to that list?

[00:13:28] Who do I know that can come in here and support that?

[00:13:32] They start to think differently because it's part of the operating system

[00:13:38] where we're talking about it a lot, we're explaining it.

[00:13:41] We're giving people an opportunity to ask questions

[00:13:44] in whether it's an L10 or just in a general conversation.

[00:13:49] So I think that's an important piece

[00:13:52] that EOS companies do a much better job of connecting the dots

[00:13:56] for their employees from the vision to the role.

[00:13:59] Right. And so the tool that we use for that

[00:14:03] is in the people key component.

[00:14:06] And it's, you know, write people, write seats.

[00:14:09] Jim Collins' book, Go DeGrate, he laid out the theory.

[00:14:13] But there's a tool that we use, which is what's called an accountability chart.

[00:14:18] And it's different than an organization, just an org chart.

[00:14:21] The difference is this, the accountability chart,

[00:14:25] the leadership team creates this accountability chart

[00:14:28] on where they the team wants to go originally the first six to 12 months.

[00:14:33] Right. And so what we do is we take all the people in the company

[00:14:37] and we put them in a closet.

[00:14:39] We then define the roles of each one of those seats,

[00:14:44] five roles in each one of those seats.

[00:14:47] So it's abundantly clear what that role is

[00:14:50] and what they're responsible for.

[00:14:53] And then we invite the guys back out of the team, back out of the closet

[00:14:56] and we go, OK, who fits that seat?

[00:15:01] And so when we do that, they know.

[00:15:04] And then everyone in the organization knows

[00:15:07] that Walter, you're the director of sales.

[00:15:10] So if there's if there's something that needs they know to go to you, right?

[00:15:14] They know to go to the visionary

[00:15:17] if there's a bigger picture or the integrator.

[00:15:21] And so that's the part of the right seats.

[00:15:24] And that's bringing that vision, being able to

[00:15:29] articulate where we need to go and then the role

[00:15:33] of how we're going to get there with those seats.

[00:15:36] And so that's it's truly important.

[00:15:39] And when we're talking about right seats,

[00:15:41] we also have to have the right people.

[00:15:44] And this is where the culture comes in.

[00:15:48] And if you've been in business any amount of time, you've probably heard

[00:15:52] culture eats strategy for lunch every day of the week.

[00:15:56] Right. And so we start to develop our core values

[00:16:02] in making sure everyone and it's not actually developing.

[00:16:07] It's defining who we are at the core

[00:16:11] and then making sure that our team fits those core values

[00:16:15] when we put them in that right seat.

[00:16:18] And so they start to then embody your vision

[00:16:23] and drive forward is what we see on a regular basis.

[00:16:28] And it's the vision of that business owner,

[00:16:32] the visionary, right?

[00:16:34] The partner, whoever that sits in that role.

[00:16:37] That's what's driving everything.

[00:16:39] That's what's helping us discover the org chart.

[00:16:43] It's helping us figure out who the right people are.

[00:16:45] It's helping us figure out where the issues are.

[00:16:48] How do we get that traction?

[00:16:49] But it's all coming from that original vision.

[00:16:52] And the process actually helps flush that out.

[00:16:55] So you went through vision, you got

[00:16:58] you covered a little bit on people data.

[00:17:00] We're looking at certain metrics that we can.

[00:17:03] We can what are the data points that in your business

[00:17:06] going to help you?

[00:17:07] What is the phrase if you're sitting on a desert island

[00:17:09] and you only get one email to look at

[00:17:11] and you you get the stats from the your scorecard

[00:17:15] to tell you if your business is going to make it another week?

[00:17:18] Is that kind of?

[00:17:19] Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:20] So that's exactly right.

[00:17:22] We use the scorecard and we use five to 15 key

[00:17:27] KPIs that we can identify.

[00:17:30] So if we are on a desert island

[00:17:32] and the only communication we have is looking at those numbers,

[00:17:37] we know if we have to go back the next week

[00:17:39] or we can stay on vacation, right?

[00:17:42] And so when we're able to do that,

[00:17:47] we can then quickly identify any issues that are going on.

[00:17:54] But when the scorecard we use is we have 13 weeks of trailing data.

[00:17:58] And what that does is that tends to allow us to really see

[00:18:04] any issues, challenges or opportunities

[00:18:08] that we can take advantage of from being able to track that data.

[00:18:13] And so that is one tool that we use in the data key component.

[00:18:21] And the other one is measurables.

[00:18:23] So in that accountability chart, we were talking about earlier,

[00:18:28] eventually every one in the organization

[00:18:33] will have at least one to three measurables

[00:18:36] that they're going to be responsible for on a weekly basis

[00:18:40] all the way down through the organization.

[00:18:43] So we're always gaining traction.

[00:18:45] What gets inspected, right?

[00:18:48] We get results from that.

[00:18:50] And so we're always looking at these measurables,

[00:18:53] making sure that everyone is always rolling in the same direction

[00:18:58] with that data key component.

[00:18:59] And we don't need 47.

[00:19:01] We can get by with three to five.

[00:19:03] That really are pertinent for that particular role.

[00:19:07] Absolutely. Less is more.

[00:19:09] And the other three issues, process and traction.

[00:19:13] How can we cover those?

[00:19:16] There's a couple of things I want to get to here

[00:19:18] that I think are really going to help you and help the audience.

[00:19:22] We got issues, process and traction.

[00:19:24] How do we explain those quickly?

[00:19:26] Yeah, so issues is basically this.

[00:19:28] How do we set up issues on a weekly basis?

[00:19:32] How do we set them up, knock them down

[00:19:34] and make them go away forever?

[00:19:36] And so there's a tool we call IDS,

[00:19:38] identify, discuss and solve.

[00:19:40] And so we end up teaching that and creating issues lists.

[00:19:44] Processes is exactly what it sounds like.

[00:19:48] Documenting our processes, right?

[00:19:50] But what we do is we take a 2080 approach

[00:19:54] for entrepreneurs where we document 20% of the steps

[00:19:58] that get us 80% of the way there

[00:20:00] because we have the right people in place

[00:20:02] that can take it all the way home.

[00:20:04] And so otherwise you have an SOP manual

[00:20:07] that's 705 pages long.

[00:20:10] Right.

[00:20:11] That no one's.

[00:20:12] The only thing you're doing is this,

[00:20:13] you're just lifting up and blowing dust off it, right?

[00:20:16] Occasionally.

[00:20:17] So I was in an on-boarding meeting this morning

[00:20:19] sort of a kickoff to on-boarding

[00:20:21] and the visionary of the company

[00:20:24] was telling the new employee

[00:20:28] that you're going to experience

[00:20:31] something you've never experienced before.

[00:20:33] We're going to trust you to do your job

[00:20:38] after we get you through this process

[00:20:40] within the on-boarding piece.

[00:20:42] You're going to be trusted to just go handle things

[00:20:45] and raise your hand.

[00:20:46] We expect you to make some mistakes,

[00:20:48] but the amount of trust that we bestow upon our people

[00:20:53] is scary, right?

[00:20:55] Not just for the visionary, but for the individual.

[00:20:59] We want them to really take that responsibility

[00:21:04] and run with it and give them the license

[00:21:06] to be able to navigate and use their skills

[00:21:09] and their tools in their brain.

[00:21:12] And I think that's one of the pieces of EOS

[00:21:14] that I like is that freedom for individuals to,

[00:21:19] you know, play the notes that they need to play

[00:21:21] in the order that they need to play on,

[00:21:23] but use your instrument, use your

[00:21:25] use your authenticity to be who you are

[00:21:28] and go do it.

[00:21:30] So I think that's an important piece

[00:21:35] that we give that everybody the license

[00:21:36] to be able to navigate and be successful being themselves.

[00:21:41] I just that's one of the pieces I really love about EOS.

[00:21:45] So traction, how would you describe traction?

[00:21:48] Well, I want to talk about that real quick

[00:21:50] because I think it's so important.

[00:21:52] OK, what we see is with companies

[00:21:55] that truly follow their core values,

[00:21:58] it gives the rest of the team license

[00:22:02] to make decisions based on those core values.

[00:22:05] So they're not always coming up to management

[00:22:08] saying, can I do this or can I do this?

[00:22:10] How important is that for salespeople

[00:22:13] in the field to be able to make real time decisions

[00:22:18] based on those guardrails knowing that

[00:22:22] if this follows this core value

[00:22:24] and it does not violate any other core values,

[00:22:27] I know I can get this done even though it might not be the norm.

[00:22:31] Right? It gives such confidence.

[00:22:34] So but yeah, that's part of the process

[00:22:38] in regard to traction.

[00:22:40] What we do is we have rocks and meeting poles

[00:22:44] and rocks are simply 90 day priorities.

[00:22:48] Three to seven less is more that the leadership team

[00:22:53] and then people in their departments end up taking

[00:22:57] to get things done that would typically take more than seven to 14 days.

[00:23:03] So special projects, right?

[00:23:06] Where we're growing, we're still getting our job done.

[00:23:09] But if we don't make these a priority, they'll never get done.

[00:23:14] We as business owners get on this hamster wheel

[00:23:18] of just running on a regular basis,

[00:23:21] never being able to get off the wheel to actually grow the business.

[00:23:25] And so this is a mechanism to make sure that we're always growing the business.

[00:23:31] Every 90 days, reviewing what we were able to accomplish.

[00:23:35] We measure backwards so we can see our progress

[00:23:39] and set a new set of rocks every 90 days

[00:23:44] to continue growing.

[00:23:46] And then the meeting pulses, the level 10 meeting,

[00:23:50] which is a very

[00:23:54] you start on time, you end on time.

[00:23:56] It's an agenda that we rate the meeting every meeting

[00:24:02] and we want to get an eight or better.

[00:24:04] Hopefully we're having a level 10 meeting, 10 being the best.

[00:24:08] So it's the highly effective way of running a meeting.

[00:24:11] And I will tell you my implementer told me this

[00:24:14] when he was delivering our first session and I rolled my eyes.

[00:24:17] OK, whatever.

[00:24:19] He goes, you'll never want to have another meeting

[00:24:23] in an organization unless it's a level 10.

[00:24:25] All right, you're in love with this stuff.

[00:24:28] I get it. You drink the Kool-Aid.

[00:24:31] I he was right.

[00:24:34] He was right because it's just a way to smoke out issues

[00:24:38] and solve them in real time and to gain traction on a weekly basis.

[00:24:42] It is. And you have to be able to have somebody

[00:24:46] that's willing to call you out.

[00:24:49] So the first 10 I was in, it was a leadership L 10

[00:24:54] and I was like an outsider, not not part of the company.

[00:24:58] And they were, you know, we were going through in the second

[00:25:02] the second meeting, they're like, you know, you we went

[00:25:05] we're IDS in this thing first.

[00:25:07] It was me and you're not being transparent, open and honest.

[00:25:11] Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, you're right.

[00:25:15] I'm not. Well, that's what you're supposed to do in here.

[00:25:18] I'm like, well, how was I supposed to know that?

[00:25:19] Right. So we had that old conversation, got it all on the table.

[00:25:22] Like, like so before I'm done, like, are you sure you want me to be open

[00:25:27] open and honest about everything because you're not going to like

[00:25:30] all the answers I give you and they're like, that's what we're looking for.

[00:25:34] OK. And it was.

[00:25:39] It was really liberating.

[00:25:41] To be able to share things

[00:25:45] and be heard and it wasn't always an agreement,

[00:25:48] but it was good to get it off your chest rather than kind of hold it.

[00:25:51] So I would agree that those L 10s are a way to structure things.

[00:25:57] So, hey, thanks for being part of the sales and cigar community.

[00:26:01] I wanted to share that I wrote a book, The Seven Critical Mistakes

[00:26:04] CEOs Make With Their Sales Organization.

[00:26:07] The CEOs who've read it, tell me I cut to the chase quickly.

[00:26:11] Get to the point. Explain exactly what they're experiencing,

[00:26:15] why they're experiencing it and how to fix it.

[00:26:17] So if you want a free copy, go check out the link in the show notes.

[00:26:21] Now let's get back to the interview.

[00:26:22] Let's talk about.

[00:26:25] The the the visionary and them being in the right spot,

[00:26:30] getting getting out of their own way, getting out of a seat or

[00:26:34] or just being able to allow the integrator and the other people to do their job.

[00:26:40] And, you know, kind of that's kind of where I want to land this is to like

[00:26:43] because that's there's a lot of visionaries that listen to this.

[00:26:48] And there are a few integrators that do and they're frustrated

[00:26:52] and the visionary is frustrated.

[00:26:53] So how do we go about making sure that they can just, hey, here's an idea.

[00:26:58] Now, you know, make sure we understand it.

[00:27:00] Everybody's with me and then get out of the way and let them let other people go do the work.

[00:27:05] Yeah, this is coming from a crazy visionary, by the way.

[00:27:07] I I am I am all gas, no breaks 100 percent of the time.

[00:27:13] And so just take that from this perspective.

[00:27:18] When you can.

[00:27:22] Let me put it this way.

[00:27:24] I use my integrator

[00:27:27] to filter my ideas.

[00:27:30] And I use my leadership team to help filter my ideas

[00:27:34] because I got a thousand of them on a regular basis.

[00:27:36] Right. I'm always brainstorming, always coming up with things.

[00:27:39] And so I actually would say to them when I was running my company

[00:27:45] as a visionary, I would go, hey, I got nine hundred ninety or I have

[00:27:50] a thousand ideas and nine hundred and ninety five of them are going to be crap.

[00:27:54] And if you let me implement any one of these, shame on you.

[00:27:58] Right.

[00:27:59] If you knew it was crap, shame on you.

[00:28:01] And so the integrator is meant to have a really good relationship

[00:28:07] with the visionary because the integrator carries out the vision of the visionary

[00:28:13] so the visionary can go and work on bigger ideas, bigger relationships,

[00:28:18] maybe bigger strategies, bigger vendor partners.

[00:28:22] Right. Whatever it is that that visionary is really, really good at.

[00:28:27] That's why they're there.

[00:28:29] They're setting the roadmap for where the organization needs to go.

[00:28:33] They don't have to drive the car, let the integrator drive the car.

[00:28:38] That's a good analogy. Yeah.

[00:28:41] And when you do that, what happens is that you're not giving up control.

[00:28:47] You still have regular meetings with your your integrator as well.

[00:28:52] Right. You still have a same page meeting.

[00:28:56] But you don't have to do all the work and make sure that everyone else is doing

[00:29:03] their job. That's the integrator's role.

[00:29:05] Go and be a visionary, go create.

[00:29:09] That's what visionaries are great at doing.

[00:29:11] They create positions, they create jobs, they create products,

[00:29:15] they create different services, go do that and then filter it through your team

[00:29:19] because sometimes it's garbage.

[00:29:21] But man, there's a lot of good nuggets in there too.

[00:29:24] And so it's.

[00:29:26] So I've witnessed this from some visionaries who are really good at coming up

[00:29:30] with ideas, throwing three or four things out, seeing what sticks, walking away,

[00:29:35] coming back later and like, where are we at with these?

[00:29:39] And they're getting constant input from their integrator and from their team.

[00:29:44] And then I've seen visionaries who struggle to let go

[00:29:48] because they're so used to having

[00:29:53] to be the person that had the idea, had the

[00:29:58] requirement to go make it happen and then figure out why it didn't work.

[00:30:03] Right. So that's a tough thing

[00:30:07] to do when you start to company yourself and you don't have a partner

[00:30:10] and you're the visionary.

[00:30:12] So what would be your advice?

[00:30:14] To for that visionary that's like, I need help.

[00:30:19] To go be just a visionary and have somebody else when they don't have

[00:30:24] a built in integrator.

[00:30:26] What do you suggest for that person?

[00:30:28] So I'm going to go a little bit deeper here.

[00:30:32] A lot of us visionaries, we have our self identity wrapped up into this

[00:30:37] position, right?

[00:30:38] We have a piece of us wrapped up into the business.

[00:30:42] And to let go of that is very, I mean, it's like handing your baby over

[00:30:48] to a babysitter that you're not sure about, right?

[00:30:53] And so...

[00:30:54] Which you shouldn't do.

[00:30:56] You shouldn't do, right?

[00:30:58] But that's why the integrator relationship is so important.

[00:31:02] If you don't have an integrator that is going to execute

[00:31:08] that vision with you and on your behalf at the leadership team level,

[00:31:14] you have to put it on the issues list and it has to be a rock.

[00:31:18] You need to find an integrator that's going to take your vision

[00:31:23] and really drive it forward.

[00:31:25] So as an implementer, as somebody that helps them put the system in

[00:31:31] place, make it efficient, make it effective, run the quarterlies,

[00:31:35] they come to you, it's like, do you have an integrator?

[00:31:40] Do we need to hire somebody full time?

[00:31:42] Do we have fractional people?

[00:31:43] I mean, what would be a progression of ideas for them to think about

[00:31:49] and try?

[00:31:50] Maybe they can't go afford to go hire a COO that is a perfect integrator.

[00:31:55] So what's an intermediary step?

[00:31:58] Yeah, if you don't have that person in your company at this moment,

[00:32:04] there are fractionals out there that have run EOS.

[00:32:09] I will caution you that they're there to integrate and not implement.

[00:32:15] They're two different things, right?

[00:32:17] They're executing your vision where it's two different roles.

[00:32:21] Two different roles.

[00:32:22] Absolutely.

[00:32:24] Yeah. And so a lot of people, they see if they can get a two for one.

[00:32:28] Well, you've integrated somewhere else.

[00:32:30] Can you help implement that?

[00:32:31] And then you're spending actually more money on that person to get them

[00:32:37] to implement throughout the company as opposed to actually driving your vision.

[00:32:42] So there are steps.

[00:32:44] You can find it.

[00:32:45] There's plenty of really good fractional integrators where you can buy a day

[00:32:50] or two a week at a time that maybe you can't afford and then they get you

[00:32:56] up to that point, or there's someone in your company who's not

[00:33:00] or there's someone in your organization and then perhaps in your either if you

[00:33:06] have time, which is not ideal and you're you're mentoring someone in that position

[00:33:11] and they GWC it, they get it, want it and have the capacity to do it.

[00:33:14] You can do that or you're out just looking for full time.

[00:33:17] But there is intermediary.

[00:33:20] I can't say the word now.

[00:33:21] Intermediary, you're saying it incorrectly myself, but we know that in between step.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:28] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:30] So but it's really a critical, a really critical thing.

[00:33:34] If you're if you're the entrepreneur, you're the business owner and you don't have

[00:33:38] a partner and you don't have somebody on the team that's been with you that you

[00:33:42] know, like in trust to that point,

[00:33:46] you need to maybe develop that person internally or look outside to bring in.

[00:33:53] And your implementer isn't necessarily the right person,

[00:33:58] probably isn't the right person because it's a completely different role.

[00:34:03] And being it's more than understanding EOS.

[00:34:06] It's more about getting shit done in the organization.

[00:34:09] Spot on, because in integrator, they they hopefully they know your business

[00:34:16] or or they have leadership skills to make sure that the leadership team is

[00:34:21] executing on theirs, right?

[00:34:24] And their specific roles in implementer.

[00:34:28] We could deal with manufacturers,

[00:34:31] service industry, sales, right?

[00:34:34] Widgets, it doesn't matter what what industry you're in.

[00:34:38] And a lot of times it's better that we don't because we're helping you get

[00:34:42] to a pure implementation of EOS where the integrator is actually in the

[00:34:48] day to day stuff with you.

[00:34:50] And so but what's nice is rolled up and every day they're in the in the muck.

[00:34:55] And yeah, and our job is to bring bring the team out and create that team health

[00:35:02] and to coach, facilitate and teach EOS.

[00:35:05] And so when we're implementing, we're working with the leadership team

[00:35:10] and we're bringing these issues out, right?

[00:35:13] We're making sure like them talking to you about being open and honest.

[00:35:17] Hey, are we getting to the root of the problem?

[00:35:20] How can we get to the root of problem if we're not being open and honest?

[00:35:23] And so we're looking at the team as we're talking and we're pulling these things out.

[00:35:28] Ninety five percent of the time, Walter, the answer is in the room.

[00:35:32] Yeah, people are afraid to say it.

[00:35:34] And so we're drawing that out.

[00:35:37] That that's a really, really solid point because

[00:35:41] that's where the transparency and open and honest come in to those

[00:35:45] quarterly meetings.

[00:35:46] And I've seen those where there's

[00:35:51] yelling back and forth in a productive fashion, where there's some animosity.

[00:35:59] But at the end of that meeting, everybody shakes hands and goes to dinner

[00:36:04] and it's out on the table and we've moved on.

[00:36:06] And that implementer has to be able to know when to allow that to go

[00:36:13] and when to pull the reins back in.

[00:36:15] Right? And that's usually around personal.

[00:36:18] Right? If we're staying focused on the business and the task and the strategy

[00:36:21] and the tactics, we're not calling somebody out by names and things.

[00:36:27] Keep it professional.

[00:36:28] I've seen that happen and it's

[00:36:30] it's amazing what happened with a team when that transparency really becomes

[00:36:37] comes there and things flush it out.

[00:36:39] And sometimes it's the person that's sitting over in the side that doesn't

[00:36:43] have anything to do with like, you know what?

[00:36:45] You guys are both right and you're both wrong.

[00:36:47] And here's what I mean.

[00:36:50] And it's like, oh, yeah, a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

[00:36:55] And we're back on track.

[00:36:58] That's got to be a satisfying piece for you as when you when you facilitate

[00:37:02] something like that. It's incredible.

[00:37:04] When you can get a meeting in the minds and a lot of times,

[00:37:08] maybe it's just miscommunication.

[00:37:09] Maybe maybe we were talking about the same thing in the same way,

[00:37:14] but we're using different vernacular to get there.

[00:37:17] Right? And so when we can get our department

[00:37:21] leaders to take their silo hats off, right, and put team company hat on,

[00:37:27] and we're looking at the problem 100 percent at the company level.

[00:37:33] But I'll tell you, Walter, some of those some of those the best

[00:37:36] sessions are the ones that there's a lot of energy.

[00:37:40] You know, there's there's a lot of passion there.

[00:37:45] I've always told my kids and might take this for what it is.

[00:37:48] My wife and I don't really argue.

[00:37:50] But if you ever see parents just become complacent,

[00:37:54] then it's dead.

[00:37:55] The marriage is dead, right?

[00:37:57] There's no.

[00:37:58] Yep.

[00:37:59] So when you have a team that's passionate and they're challenged each other

[00:38:04] and they're going, I don't think that's the way it needs to be.

[00:38:06] And here's why.

[00:38:08] But you can state that from purely not a personal standpoint,

[00:38:12] but what's better for the company?

[00:38:15] That's magic when we get to that point.

[00:38:16] I'm getting goosebumps even thinking about it right now,

[00:38:19] because that's where the good stuff comes from.

[00:38:21] Awesome.

[00:38:22] So

[00:38:24] what I'd like to kind of wrap this is,

[00:38:27] you know, your what you do, you just described what you do in that room,

[00:38:32] right? Whether it's in your room or in their conference room or some third party

[00:38:37] location where there's all of this energy going back and forth.

[00:38:43] Easier to do when you're face to face.

[00:38:47] So you were like described for like that visionary who's listening right now

[00:38:54] or that business owner is listening right now that, you know,

[00:38:58] I need to find somebody that can help me do that.

[00:39:01] What Greg just described, like how did they get a hold of you?

[00:39:04] We're going to have your contact info in the show notes.

[00:39:07] But is there somebody in particular that you really enjoy working with or you get

[00:39:12] you drive that extra passion?

[00:39:16] Like your ideal persona, what who is that?

[00:39:20] Yeah, so

[00:39:22] I will take a smaller company because I know what it's like to be a smaller

[00:39:26] company growing.

[00:39:28] So ideally

[00:39:31] seven to 250 employees privately owned,

[00:39:34] but the people I will drive for or go out of town for

[00:39:41] is the teams that give a shit.

[00:39:43] The teams that really want to get better.

[00:39:48] You know, if they're wishy-washy about it, you know, if you have to drag them

[00:39:51] in, you got to drag them through it.

[00:39:53] I want teams and I love working with teams that give a shit.

[00:39:58] They say, can we get one percent better here?

[00:40:01] Two percent better there.

[00:40:02] We want to grow.

[00:40:03] How do we get to that point?

[00:40:05] How can we be open and honest with each other to get to that point?

[00:40:09] Those are the those are the teams that we're looking for.

[00:40:12] And sometimes that's lurking below the surface, right?

[00:40:16] And they just need that kick in the pants or they need the hand extended

[00:40:22] to say it's OK to say what you're thinking because they they didn't believe that before.

[00:40:29] And that's where you can.

[00:40:31] That's where you can come in and come in and help

[00:40:34] that those business owners like, you know, you've got people who care,

[00:40:38] you know, people that are competent, but there's just something missing.

[00:40:42] Maybe they call Greg and say, hey,

[00:40:44] can you help me get everything I can get out of these folks?

[00:40:49] Because it's sometimes it's that fear of what might happen if they're saying, boss,

[00:40:54] that's a stupid idea.

[00:40:56] Right.

[00:40:57] Yeah. And that's what we want to hear sometimes.

[00:41:01] Right.

[00:41:02] When I had I had a sign shop years ago and I would throw out an idea that I knew was stupid.

[00:41:09] Right. And I throw it at it at the I didn't have an L 10, but I would have

[00:41:14] sort of this monthly

[00:41:16] management meeting and throw out an idea and it was stupid.

[00:41:19] And they were like, OK, if that's what you want to do.

[00:41:21] And I'm like, no, it's not what I want to do.

[00:41:24] It's a stupid idea.

[00:41:25] And you guys should have told me it's a stupid idea.

[00:41:28] Well, you're going to be happy if we're telling you it's stupid or you're stupid.

[00:41:31] I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not stupid.

[00:41:33] But if the idea is stupid, you get to say stupid idea, Walter, please,

[00:41:39] that's dumb. Here's why. Right.

[00:41:41] You're not there's a delineation between an idea being dumb and the

[00:41:45] individual being dumb, right?

[00:41:47] Or being impractical or whatever it is.

[00:41:50] So I think that's something that you you can bring to the table.

[00:41:54] So we'll have your website.

[00:41:55] We'll have your LinkedIn in there.

[00:41:58] Is there another way?

[00:41:58] Is there a preference for them to reach out to you?

[00:42:02] They can either reach out to me via my phone or email is fine.

[00:42:08] That doesn't matter. Either one.

[00:42:10] Are you going to have the phone number associated?

[00:42:13] I will have your phone number if you want there.

[00:42:15] Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:17] I'd love to talk to all those visionaries are going to be published to the world.

[00:42:21] So go for it.

[00:42:24] And you're in West Michigan so you can cover

[00:42:28] Michigan, Northern Indiana, Northern Illinois, like

[00:42:32] Guam, where do you draw the line?

[00:42:36] Um, yeah.

[00:42:37] So basically I am always back and forth between Chicago and Detroit.

[00:42:43] And, you know, as far north as Lansing Grand Rapids and, you know,

[00:42:50] South is, you know, I'd go down to Indianapolis if there's a good team.

[00:42:56] There's a there's quite a few.

[00:43:00] There's quite a few metropolitan areas in that just between Chicago and Detroit,

[00:43:04] you got Battle Creek, you got Kalamazoo, you got Grand Rapids.

[00:43:08] Grand Rapids is a fertile ground.

[00:43:11] Lansing another fertile ground.

[00:43:14] So I think if you're

[00:43:18] if you're that in that visionary role, you need you need a little help.

[00:43:22] You need some guidance.

[00:43:24] Greg will take a call, walk you through.

[00:43:26] He'll be honest with you because one of the things that I think is important

[00:43:31] for EOS is like to tell people what it is and what it isn't.

[00:43:36] Yeah, what they need to be prepared for

[00:43:39] because it's some work to get it going.

[00:43:42] It's not it's not, you know, a walk on the beach.

[00:43:47] It's not it's not hard, but you have to be consistent and and put it in place

[00:43:53] and work through all the ups and downs to it. Am I wrong there?

[00:43:58] You're absolutely correct.

[00:44:00] It's the really simple tools.

[00:44:02] But there's work to be done.

[00:44:04] If you're willing to do the work, what will happen is you're going to find that

[00:44:08] you have a lot more time, a lot of business owners.

[00:44:11] We get stuck on this treadmill and they go, I don't know if I when I can get off,

[00:44:15] if I can get off and I tell people this,

[00:44:18] I'm not a big NASCAR fan, but I know those guys make four left turns going

[00:44:23] 200 miles an hour as fast as possible and each one of them need to pit.

[00:44:29] They need to stop and put new tires on and put fuel in to go faster.

[00:44:34] And so we have to stop, examine in order for us to go faster.

[00:44:40] And that's a that's a great way to look at it.

[00:44:43] And we do need to get off that

[00:44:47] that Amster Wheel, like you said before, and really take a look at working

[00:44:51] on the business rather than in it to use Michael Gerber term.

[00:44:55] And I think, you know, yes, EOS gives us that that opportunity.

[00:45:00] So any last parting thoughts before we jump off?

[00:45:06] Visionaries, you're not alone.

[00:45:09] A lot of a lot of us that we were on the CEO Island, I know I felt it.

[00:45:14] There's stuff that we just feel like we can't talk about it with our teams.

[00:45:18] But if you start to develop that trusted team that you can talk about

[00:45:22] real hard issues, you're not going to be doing this alone.

[00:45:24] And there's going to be more hands to make things easier.

[00:45:29] Awesome. Thanks, Greg. I appreciate it.

[00:45:31] Yeah, thank you, Walter.

[00:45:33] It's been a pleasure.

[00:45:34] I love sharing secrets when I figure them out.

[00:45:37] That's why I created this program called Sales, Hire and Secrets.

[00:45:41] Earlier in my sales management career, I was terrible at hiring salespeople.

[00:45:45] They failed more often than not.

[00:45:47] Then I discovered the secret that you can't hire salespeople the same way

[00:45:51] you hire everyone else. That's why everyone fails.

[00:45:55] In sales, hiring secrets, I'm going to teach you all of the secrets,

[00:45:59] the secrets to understanding what you really need your salesperson to do,

[00:46:03] how to attract an ideal candidate with a unique job posting.

[00:46:08] I'll teach you how to save time and money by only interviewing candidates

[00:46:12] that are a good fit.

[00:46:14] I'll share the secrets to an interviewing process that ensures success.

[00:46:19] And the one big secret that everybody gets wrong is how to on board

[00:46:24] a good salesperson so they ramp up quickly and stick around.

[00:46:28] I'm doing the Sales, Hire and Secrets program on a monthly basis.

[00:46:32] You can click the link below to figure out when the next

[00:46:35] Sales, Hiring, Secrets program is scheduled and you can sign up.

[00:46:41] Click the link below and you get all the details.

[00:46:44] And it's designed for you to bring your entire team so you can get

[00:46:47] everybody up to speed quickly.

[00:46:49] Thanks. Look forward to seeing you on the other side.