Sales and Cigars | Jon Alwinson | Sales Leader and Author | Episode 183

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Healy Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars.

[00:00:04] Today's episode was a lot of fun to record. It was one of those episodes where we just

[00:00:08] took the guests to deliver so much value. Jon Alwinson wrote a book called Relentless Sales.

[00:00:15] Here we go, Relentless Sales. And he's got 18 chapters in there and his idea is that he's

[00:00:22] got 18 cups of coffee that he would spend with his sales rep. And these are the things

[00:00:26] that he talks to them about to kind of get them up to speed as a rep and as a sales manager.

[00:00:33] This is how he works with them. So we pick a couple of those that interested me and I think it really

[00:00:38] adds a lot of value to the audience and you know pick up the book but listen to the podcast

[00:00:44] and take some of these takeaways about mindset, about confidence and about some basic habits

[00:00:50] that every salesperson needs. That's what we talk about in here. So go grab a cigar,

[00:00:55] grab a cocktail, strap in for another impactful episode of Sales and Cigars. Thanks.

[00:01:13] So Jon welcome to the program. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule to

[00:01:19] jump on and have a chat. Yeah Walter thanks for having me. It's an honor to be on with you

[00:01:23] and excited about today. Well we'll see how you feel after we're done with this but okay.

[00:01:29] Normally I ask a question about like a book that people

[00:01:33] guess gifts or rereads but I'd like to just point up the fact that you wrote a book

[00:01:39] and I know how exciting that is when you get a book out in the world and it helps you

[00:01:45] you know explain how you think and it's authentic and we're gonna get into that because

[00:01:53] there's a couple of chapters that really want to focus on. Talk a little bit about for the audience

[00:01:58] like how you got to where you are right because it always joke is you know when we were kids I

[00:02:04] didn't think I was going to be doing what I'm doing and then I'm sure that's similar for you.

[00:02:08] Yeah absolutely so my background quickly is you know graduated college with an

[00:02:14] entrepreneurial venture in mind. My brother and I started manufacturing shoes of all things

[00:02:19] in East Asia China and we were selling those throughout the US for about four or five years

[00:02:25] and so at one point we had about 150 momma pop type shops across the US selling our

[00:02:30] sandals boat shoes. We kind of had an outdoor camouflage type look and so we spent the

[00:02:37] first five and a half years after college trying to build this thing and as you can

[00:02:42] imagine two young guys we made every mistake in the books overlapping job responsibilities.

[00:02:48] That was the inexperienced sales guy. You name it we made that mistake and after that period of

[00:02:54] time we ended up shutting down the company and that catapulted my career and that was some

[00:02:59] mentors and they catapulted my career into sales and medical device sales and that's where I've

[00:03:04] been called the last 12 14 years here so. It's rare that somebody shares that you know

[00:03:13] the things didn't work out as planned but those those are to me the things that

[00:03:20] really inform us and and help us grow as individuals and we learn from them and and

[00:03:26] then we can apply those in other lessons so I appreciate it. I can't but boat shoes and sandals

[00:03:34] like where did you grow up like how did you get that? Yes we grew up in I grew up in Orlando

[00:03:39] central Florida and sandals boat shoes they're big down there we kind of had these like camp

[00:03:44] camp mocks type shoes that people wear around like a camp environment and so we kind of had that

[00:03:50] always you know hunting fishing type things growing up and so that was a big part of our

[00:03:55] lives and so we thought that our niche and our style would work well on this kind of almost

[00:04:01] like a Bass Pro type environment and and we had a good run but you know you can imagine

[00:04:06] raising capital to manufacturing shoes to all kinds of headaches yeah. I've managed that from a

[00:04:13] different continent it's like it's crazy so um yeah I appreciate that so and and you've been in sales

[00:04:22] for 14 years and your medical devices so we got too deep there but um let's jump into the book

[00:04:32] if you don't mind yeah there's a couple of there's a couple of chapters that I want to touch on

[00:04:37] I think really will resonate with with the audience and the first one that jumped out at me was

[00:04:43] the idea of confidence right that's the title of the chapter yeah um and I think that's um

[00:04:51] I think that's really important for a salesperson to one believe in themselves

[00:04:57] and then believe in the product that they're selling because if you don't if you don't believe

[00:05:01] in what you're selling is sales is really about helping people and providing their value so if

[00:05:07] you don't have that so like when you when you talk about you could you expand a little bit on that idea

[00:05:12] of what your what your real your point was in the chapter for the audience. Yeah absolutely I

[00:05:18] think as salespeople and I think those two things you just mentioned go hand in hand right if

[00:05:21] if you're selling something that you're not confident you're not going to be confident

[00:05:25] in front of your customers but I think speaking from experience um I've lived on both sides of

[00:05:31] that confidence continuum even you know a little bit too cocky arrogant um in the hubris realm and

[00:05:37] then underconfident lack of of confidence and so I think really finding that sweet spot of

[00:05:43] understanding who you are selling from a sound identity is is kind of what I talk about but

[00:05:49] confidence comes from elite preparation comes from working for a company that you believe in

[00:05:56] and product you believe in and or services right and um and I think it's it's a big part of sales

[00:06:03] I think it's one of the most important parts of sales is having a a confident yet humble demeanor

[00:06:10] and I love the word humble I think it's I think it's uh because we're you know we're trying

[00:06:15] to serve people um we have to believe that we're bringing value and I like the idea of

[00:06:22] the hubris comes in um I think younger salespeople um have that where they'll fall into that side

[00:06:33] where they get a little cocky because they've had a win or they had a couple wins and like

[00:06:38] they feel like they know the product and it I've seen it come out in a meeting where I was

[00:06:44] like sales manager and and that you know I always let them run the meeting um and and I'm serving

[00:06:50] and this young man was like I can't believe you don't see the value of this Mr Prospect

[00:06:58] he said it with such you know you know uh negativity and the the the prospect looked at me and

[00:07:07] I'm like well it's not wrong but I think you did a shitty job of explaining to you our value

[00:07:13] so let's reboot here uh right we're able to save it but I see that come come out in the younger

[00:07:20] the younger folks that are are is that is that what you've seen or is that where

[00:07:24] yeah totally and that and that's why I wrote this book too I mean I I sit down with younger

[00:07:29] folks where I'm like man I need 18 coffee sessions with this person in order to get them kind of

[00:07:35] to to where I think they need to be and that's why I wrote the 18 chapters in this book um

[00:07:40] you're right that that earlier generation they don't have enough life experience to sometimes

[00:07:45] to be able to uh handle situations like that and that arrogance does come out and leak out and we

[00:07:51] have to be so careful because that's the last thing you want to project to a customer. Hey thanks

[00:07:57] for being part of Sales and Cigars I wanted to share a new project that we just launched I wrote

[00:08:03] a new book called Scale Your Sales it's written for the CEO it's a short powerful book that explains

[00:08:10] the seven critical mistakes that CEOs make with their sales organization it provides actionable

[00:08:15] steps that you can take to fix those problems in your business today and that might even help you

[00:08:21] get out of the sales seat yourself so appreciate you listening to sales and cigars you can find

[00:08:27] this book on amazon or wherever you buy books. You know you can push back on a customer you can

[00:08:34] challenge their ideas and you got to do it from a place of of service and that you're trying to

[00:08:41] help um and you know life experience getting your nose bloody I mean those are the best

[00:08:50] the best learning experiences in my life because they're there if you give her get

[00:08:56] up in the nose by somebody that gets your attention it hurts and and I think if they if they can see

[00:09:04] that and it resonates with them and you know that will be those are great learning lessons as long

[00:09:10] as it's not you know detrimental to their career and to life um let's actually touch the stove

[00:09:18] once uh when they're younger to know that it's hot they probably won't touch it again but

[00:09:23] get on face planning it um agree so there's a there's another section in the book that

[00:09:33] you talk about I refer to it as mindset and sales DNA um because I look at there's like

[00:09:42] six components of that but you refer to is like the the mental game and you know I think we're

[00:09:49] talking about the same thing but can you kind of elaborate a little bit about what that is in

[00:09:55] your definition and why it's so important yeah and I and I love how technical you get with it but

[00:10:00] I think what I'm trying to say it's all-encompassing right like success is largely dependent between

[00:10:06] what's uh you know between our ears right and and how we think and so um so taking what you

[00:10:12] teach and you talk about in your your book and others um and and kind of incorporate what I

[00:10:17] talk about I mean it largely depends on and how we process day to day do we get deflated after we

[00:10:23] get a no right or do we reboot reboot and we and and I talk about on owning the mental game I talk

[00:10:29] about documenting our wins you know for those talk about a good friend of mine Nate who went through

[00:10:34] a couple hard seasons where he wasn't he wasn't making the sales that he normally was used to

[00:10:39] and and going back and if someone's in a in a pitfall right now or a downtime in sales

[00:10:45] learning how to get out of that period um and then I also talk about like the the different

[00:10:50] skills and mentality I think it takes to just form a a mental mental fortitude essentially

[00:10:57] yeah you're building the strength muscle to come back to it I like I like how you you're

[00:11:03] referred to that is like going back and remembering the winds if you're in a slump

[00:11:07] whether it be a two-year slump or year slump or a couple of months right going back and

[00:11:13] thinking about those winds and trying to pull that up so do you is that something you do to take

[00:11:18] people through take a salesperson through that process is there a you know steps that you you

[00:11:25] follow to get them there yeah I mean essentially grab a sheet of paper and when have you been

[00:11:31] successful from beginning early part of your life till to where you're at now and just get all

[00:11:36] the good stuff out there and so if you made the high school basketball team and you were

[00:11:40] five ten hundred pounds like that's a that's a success right um if you hit a home run or you did

[00:11:48] x y and z whatever you're into whatever you did um from early ages to now were you able to get

[00:11:55] a couple wins throughout your career in different sales avenues like document it all get it out

[00:11:59] on paper both personal and professional and I think you'll be amazed and really encourage

[00:12:04] on what you've accomplished so far that's a great exercise it's it's sort of you might approach like

[00:12:11] setting goals and getting somebody to leverage their goals for their professional but getting

[00:12:17] up to realize because there's there's multiple roles right as one of the things that I'll talk

[00:12:23] about we've all gone through that identity and role exercise the RIR exercise where we you know

[00:12:32] we we look at ourselves as a father or brother or son right and uncle whatever whatever that is you

[00:12:39] know maybe your barbecue master maybe your great tennis player uh whatever that is but

[00:12:44] each one of those roles are separated we have a separate identity for that and when we look at

[00:12:51] ourselves as a salesperson like that is a particular role so that exercise you take people through

[00:12:58] kind of brings them brings them back to lots of positive things that they've done

[00:13:03] and then that gets the juices flowing for them to really build on you know what were they doing well

[00:13:10] um when they were when they were selling and hitting numbers and reaching those goals

[00:13:16] like what did they drop doing what did they start missing out of their maybe out of me

[00:13:21] that's super methodology that's a great little technique for folks yeah stop totally totally and

[00:13:28] that's what I kind of call owning the mental game you know I don't care how you get there I

[00:13:32] don't care what element you focus on but let's get you back to where you were when you're

[00:13:36] hitting on all cylinders um and I've always thought about it like from a positive mental

[00:13:45] attitude okay that's important but I think the confidence thread that's why I picked those two

[00:13:53] being often having the right mental attitude towards the towards what you're trying to accomplish

[00:14:00] those go hand in hand so so those threads are are are wound together competence and the mental

[00:14:06] game uh and you know is there anything else that's part of that you know staying keeping

[00:14:13] your head in the game is there anything else that you think you focus on there yeah I mean we

[00:14:17] talk about in that chapter and chapter eight owning the mental game we talk about um keeping a tight

[00:14:22] schedule right do you do you kind of have an organized schedule that you go about I think

[00:14:26] people who are all over the place with their schedule they have all over the place results

[00:14:31] and so um staying disciplined we talk a little bit about goals and affirmations and you know

[00:14:38] then one of the big things I hit on is is you know don't take criticism from people you wouldn't

[00:14:43] go to for advice that's such a great quote it's such a great it's freeing isn't it

[00:14:50] it like keep like stop caring about what people think in general right that's

[00:14:57] that's a really good idea in and of itself but if you wouldn't take advice from somebody then

[00:15:04] go I give a shit what they think it's really it's spot on you you look at guys like David

[00:15:08] Goggins you look at guys like Jaco Willing you look at those people and you think they care about

[00:15:12] what other people think of them I mean they really especially Goggins that guy could care less

[00:15:17] about what anybody thinks of him I've never seen it to that degree and I think that ultimately

[00:15:22] you can still be a kind warm good person but if you kind of train your mind and discipline

[00:15:28] your mind to not care as much about that criticism which is hard especially guys like me like I

[00:15:33] want people to like me and most sales people do but if you can train your mind you're going to have

[00:15:39] so much more success to move from a bad call or bad visit to next play mentality and I think

[00:15:47] audible calling coming out of next play to yourself when you have a down call or a bad meeting hey

[00:15:54] there's nothing I can do at this point maybe I'll send a follow-up email try to salvage

[00:15:57] this but at the end of the day you can't you can't fall into deep emotional traps and sales

[00:16:03] otherwise you just you just go up and down and up down in the game and the roller coaster's are

[00:16:09] no fun when you're riding them all day long it gets old pretty fast right it does it's not

[00:16:15] bad for that seven-minute ride around the loop we actually measure someone's need for a preval

[00:16:23] and it's interesting you know when you talk about a mental game in general somebody's need to be

[00:16:30] liked in the role as a salesperson gets in the way of them asking good questions asking tough

[00:16:38] questions and we can measure it you know on a real tight scale and the folks that some people

[00:16:48] need to be loved and they just can't you know ask somebody for the order they can't you know

[00:16:56] talk about budget and you know that's a combination if somebody struggles to to discuss money which

[00:17:03] is part of the is part of a mental game as well if they think uh $2,000 is a lot of money

[00:17:11] and they're selling a product that's $20,000 that's gonna be uh gonna be a problem for them to

[00:17:19] to really push that. You encounter that very often in uh Detroit. Absolutely and I coach I've

[00:17:26] been leading a sales team for the last eight years and so I've had people at all levels come in

[00:17:32] from early out of college to you know several four or five years and B2B sales and

[00:17:36] you know you're exactly right you know if they they think uh $12,000 is a lot of money which to a

[00:17:43] lot of people that is and they're they're trying to sell a $200,000 piece of equipment I mean they're

[00:17:47] they're gonna have to work through that kind of continuum um and you know I I've really made

[00:17:53] a career out of coaching these these folks too uh to get to a point where they can

[00:17:58] you know not um not get stuck on that topic because it's so easy to to fall in traps there

[00:18:07] money's one of those things that everybody has a

[00:18:11] usually a screwed up view of it um where they're where it's it brings some sort of baggage to them

[00:18:20] and you know I mean I was having a conversation with somebody the other day and he had a $50,000

[00:18:27] a month problem that was costing him $50,000 a month and for me like I could help him solve

[00:18:34] this problem um but you know I said is that is that a lot of money and he's like well of course

[00:18:42] it's a lot of money but I have a bigger problem it was it was costing him $250,000 quarter yeah so it

[00:18:50] was a bigger issue and that if you see if I don't fix that I'm done very very so what was

[00:18:57] interesting was I didn't assume that that was a lot of money and I didn't try to go down that path

[00:19:03] and I think you know making assumptions is part of that mental game like oh well he's

[00:19:10] he said a couple of positive things I think he likes me and I think he means that he would you

[00:19:15] know that we're gonna move forward because he said this was a great proposal like making assumptions

[00:19:21] does that fall into the mental game or do you put that someplace else totally I mean I

[00:19:25] I kind of you know I think all this stuff flows together right I think who we are as people

[00:19:29] flows into how we think how we process like so I think I look at us as humans as all that flowing

[00:19:34] together but I love how you dug deeper right most sales people are too worried to or don't

[00:19:42] don't have the knowledge to say is that a lot of money because $50,000 I was thinking the same

[00:19:47] thing when you said it I'm like it's $50,000 a lot to him or not like he might be you might

[00:19:51] be a $50,000 problem but he might be making 2.5 million uh a month and it's really just a small

[00:19:59] drop in the bucket you have to seek to understand and um it's so important to sales people I talk

[00:20:04] about it dig a second layer deeper and then once you do second if you can dig a little bit more

[00:20:09] to truly understand your customers needs that's a great point like when you think you're done

[00:20:17] asking the questions ask another right that that's and if you're really listening that's

[00:20:24] gonna inform you as to like do you keep going right is it is there more there

[00:20:29] I had a boss when I was working for a company guy that owned the company

[00:20:37] he would ask you questions about a deal until you couldn't answer yeah right that was just his

[00:20:45] thing so if you got in there and you ask you one question you can answer it like you know he was

[00:20:49] pretty uh upset and he did hide his feelings but so I got to a point where it was like I could get

[00:20:56] 3d 3d and that's like I gotta get the yeah right and that was my goal right to keep

[00:21:03] keep them going where I could answer a question it would never be us some but I would always you

[00:21:09] know be ready to like how many questions is he gonna ask me you know what can I you know

[00:21:13] what do I need to make sure that that I know and farthest I ever got was seven

[00:21:19] and in the seventh one I was like dude what relevance does that have to this yeah we're

[00:21:24] getting mundane now yeah so but but I think that's another great you know piece of this dig

[00:21:30] deeper and you know curiosity is is something that salespeople have to have and if it's not

[00:21:41] if there's a natural curiosity the questions won't sound like an interrogation right right

[00:21:48] it'll be more like just a conversation with a friend like why did you do that or why did you

[00:21:55] say that right to your buddies um is that is that something that you know you've got a

[00:22:01] like you've got to have heard all kinds of stories about uh about that and all the time

[00:22:07] and you ask you know why and then I like to say hey help me understand you know because ultimately

[00:22:12] all this is is funneling down to the the magic word in sales which is pain is there pain for your

[00:22:18] product service or solution or not and I think that's that's really what you were ultimately

[00:22:24] trying to we're trying to gather all the facts so we can figure out if it's a good neutral fit

[00:22:28] or not and um in those secondary third level questions hey tell me more about that oh

[00:22:34] one second you mentioned this what what effect does that have on the bottom line and those curious

[00:22:40] reps who aren't that have the confidence back to our first question who have confidence can do it in

[00:22:46] a way that doesn't feel like you're interrogating but you're just curious and I always joke around

[00:22:51] with my team and say I'm not the smartest guy in the room um and and it's true like I like to

[00:22:57] I always ask why tell me more help me understand all those questions because

[00:23:01] um the more we don't assume the more we are able to truly figure out if there's pain or not

[00:23:09] that's that's a great that's a great piece is because you're that you're like the three

[00:23:15] year old or the four year old who keeps asking the why question right we don't want to be the

[00:23:19] annoying little three-year-old but they're really curious most of the time as to why that is

[00:23:25] you're trying to bring this in so we can bring that to an adult situation with a b2b

[00:23:29] conversation and and being confused sometimes right when they say something stupid yeah as a prospect

[00:23:36] and they've been known to do that like you know just shaking your head or turning your head like

[00:23:43] I well hold on I'm confused you said x and now you said why I'm confused help me get back on

[00:23:50] here and and you give them an out but you're you're still calling them out on the on the

[00:23:57] thing that doesn't make sense but it shows that you're listening to them as well

[00:24:01] they feel hurt um I uh I think you're the other thing you said is that you know you've got these

[00:24:10] chapters in the book and it kind of based on what you try to take your team through so you

[00:24:16] really have a a structure to coaching you have a structure to how you what you're looking for

[00:24:25] and some people you have to spend more time on confidence and some people have that you got

[00:24:30] to get them to tamp it down a little bit but like it's never it's not linear in that everybody's

[00:24:36] equal right you got to be who you need to be correct correct that's exactly right I coach

[00:24:41] based off the talent that I have and you know the more competent and appropriately confident

[00:24:46] my reps get the more hands off and it's amazing I had I just promoted a gal on my team

[00:24:51] who's with me for eight years and you know I have a lot of four five six year reps on my team and

[00:24:56] as our relationship grows and fosters what's cool is we become more peer to peer and and more of

[00:25:02] a friend level once there's mutual trust and you know when you're at that point there's

[00:25:07] nothing better as a manager than having a hey how can I help you type call and it and you really

[00:25:12] become more of a sounding board than hands-on semi micromanaging I think early on in careers

[00:25:18] I'm more hands-on and as they prove their competence I just back off and let them do their thing

[00:25:24] you tell them that in advance they're like you here's my structure right I want to build trust

[00:25:29] I want you to know I'm here to help you but I also need to see that you're doing a B and C

[00:25:34] like to give them that that information on the front end it's like you know you get freedom

[00:25:39] as you as you earn 100% I heard from like guys like John Maxwell who I really respect say

[00:25:45] he starts everybody at 100% and I kind of start everybody and I tell them I start them at 75 80%

[00:25:52] right I'm bringing you in because I think you're a super talented person I talk about their strengths

[00:25:56] but at you know I definitely outline that like our relationship will grow and continue to get to

[00:26:03] 100% once we hit these certain metrics together right and we'll grow and it's two-way street

[00:26:08] you know you're building your trust with me as I'm building my trust with you

[00:26:13] and I always like to throw in there some point I'm going to learn from you

[00:26:18] right you're going to do something you're going to have a piece of

[00:26:22] phrase that you turn or just some some little detail that you're gonna and I'm going to be

[00:26:28] able to pick that up and and I always point out like that's that one that one movie made

[00:26:33] or that one technique you tried there that really worked and yeah and I you know I don't

[00:26:38] I don't do that so I appreciate seeing that and try to you know pull it into my to my space

[00:26:46] but when you're as a sales manager how much of your time are you spending

[00:26:54] coaching true coach that's a good question I wish more you know as you can imagine

[00:27:00] you know there's a lot of different duties obligations etc that come up so what I try to

[00:27:06] do is this I have a I have a call once every two weeks an hour call with my with each teammate

[00:27:12] I have 10 reps on my team so I have a call every two weeks for an hour we have a team call

[00:27:18] usually about once every three weeks as a team at collectively and so in between that it's more on

[00:27:25] you know let me know if things are coming up and then I actually try to physically be in the car

[00:27:30] with each rep twice once a quarter for two days so you know that's that's kind of so I'm always on the

[00:27:37] road right now I cover seven states down the southeast and that's kind of my mentality with it and that's

[00:27:43] that's the most I can do to be honest and then just does one off says problems come up

[00:27:49] I'm a firefighter so I get pulled into the problems most of time

[00:27:53] yeah I love I mean that's a good structure especially when you got that many reps

[00:27:58] tell me you're not carrying a number yourself but that that's a no it's a collective number I don't

[00:28:02] it's I carry the team's collective number but they're out there selling yeah um I I love that

[00:28:10] cadence and being out out with them because you get to see you know how organized they are

[00:28:16] you get to see how they're because you can't hide that stuff right oh and you get to see how they

[00:28:20] really operate um that's that's awesome I I I've always said that coaching should be about 50% of

[00:28:30] our time and I would based on what you're saying and how much you're on the road your your pen is 50-60%

[00:28:37] of your time with the rep when you're with the rep you're really coaching in some way yeah it's not

[00:28:42] always the same um but your coach I just feel bad that if you got seven states and you got to go

[00:28:47] through MCO that many times uh it probably Atlanta Atlanta it's yeah it's it's uh luckily I live I live

[00:28:59] on the outskirts of Atlanta I live about 20 minutes 30 minutes from the airport just out of the the

[00:29:04] perimeter so living when you live in Atlanta having the airport in your backyard is actually more of a

[00:29:10] blessing but if you don't live in Atlanta it's a disaster I imagine yeah I lived in Dunwoody

[00:29:15] yes part of the perimeter uh and I lived there just for a year I took a year to kind of figure out

[00:29:23] what my next move was and going down 75 or 85 to get to the airport was it's a nightmare it's a

[00:29:34] nightmare but it is but it's part of our our deal as a as a sales manager is covering that

[00:29:41] bigger with territory um so one of the last things I want to touch on was you have a chapter on habits

[00:29:49] is there you know when you got a new rep they've got a little bit of seasoning to them but they're

[00:29:57] they're they're still a little green like what's what's that one or two habits that you think are

[00:30:02] really important to get them off going into success path yeah I I think the pre-call plan is so

[00:30:11] important because you can kind of shoot yourself in the foot before you even get started and so

[00:30:16] having a rep I like to hire just the best talent I can and usually that's emotional intelligence and

[00:30:22] and IQ and EQ kind of mix together a little bit but pre-call plan and and before they go run out

[00:30:30] there because they want to as soon as they're out of training we put them through about 10 weeks

[00:30:33] of training which is a lot in our field but after they get out of training they want to just

[00:30:37] go run every account getting in the slowdown and really think about how they want to approach each

[00:30:42] customer understanding the numbers like what's the what's the spend each year with us currently

[00:30:47] what products are they spending and what portfolios are buying from us in before they just go run

[00:30:53] out there and start meeting with them um and then I really try to teach that throughout so I say

[00:30:57] I'd say that and then I do think you know getting belly to belly with customers after

[00:31:02] you've appropriately figured out or the organization needs to be in your territory

[00:31:09] activity doesn't always equal accomplishment but if you're halfway smart and you kind of know where

[00:31:14] the business stands and how you want to grow it he or she who makes who does the most activity

[00:31:21] and right activity I think usually wins so get belly to belly with your customer organized

[00:31:27] and I talk about that another chapter organized then attack and um I think those two things

[00:31:34] are some of the biggest things I look for and try to teach if I was only gonna pick two

[00:31:39] then I I'm being being organized and knowing that you're all of your customers are not a

[00:31:46] customer and they don't all deserve the same amount of time and which ones can grow

[00:31:53] which ones can you get you know increase your share of wallet

[00:31:57] but sometimes it's it's not just from a pure financial point of view it's like they

[00:32:03] they're they don't want to change they want to have two vendors or something right I

[00:32:09] would pick it up but um but understanding what that looks like um I love that um so

[00:32:17] so best place for somebody to grab the book yeah just amazon.com Relentless Sales you can

[00:32:26] look up my name John Owenson right there thank you Walter and uh we would love to connect with

[00:32:31] your audience I'm on all social media platforms so anybody wants to connect would uh would love

[00:32:36] to have your your support um yeah I like I you know I'm not gonna lie I didn't read the whole

[00:32:43] book but there's it was like I was drawn to a couple of those chapters and um I like I like the way

[00:32:50] you're you're thinking your wise behind beyond your year man so hopefully this is uh been a great

[00:32:59] experience where you got another book in you yeah so I'm working on a management book right now so

[00:33:04] kind of leadership management kind of formalizing it's early stages now but just similar to

[00:33:11] Relentless Sales like if someone's just getting in sales or is kind of newer to the game I would say

[00:33:16] these are the 18 chapters that I'll give you to to learn the game the same thing on on the management

[00:33:20] side being eight years in I'm starting to kind of get my groove a little bit starting to learn

[00:33:24] what leading a team looks like and so just want to document that and my goal is just to share

[00:33:30] those lessons along the way I don't like you said I don't have it all together I don't think

[00:33:34] anybody does but you know the the more we can learn from each other and share best practices

[00:33:38] I think that's how we get better yeah if we're not learning it's we're dying I mean you got you

[00:33:45] gotta be it's like a shark right sharks gotta keep moving forward to stay alive and and that's

[00:33:52] kind of how I think we gotta look at our our education our experience right we want to continually

[00:33:58] try to get a little bit a little bit better um and own and own it as Jaco would say extreme

[00:34:05] yeah so last question John pastor president relationship with cigars yeah so love love a good

[00:34:13] cigar um you know typically after a sales year with my my top reps we'll smoke a cigar at our

[00:34:20] national sales meeting so I like to to do that on occasion um one of my favorite memories was uh was

[00:34:27] recent we do right on my backyard right here is uh we have a big fire pit and so the guys from

[00:34:32] my neighborhood probably about once a quarter we get together and uh share a beverage and uh cigar

[00:34:38] around the fire pit and that's kind of how we bond as a neighborhood so that's cool that's a

[00:34:43] that's a cool little um cool neighborhood feature you can get together and and because cigars are

[00:34:50] social um you know at least for for me for the most part they're it's a great way to get

[00:34:58] together it doesn't matter if it's guys or gals whatever like there's plenty of uh um plenty of

[00:35:03] women who enjoy joyous cigar and um I just think it's it's cool to get together because you're

[00:35:09] really going to get into something right if you're sitting down with a big fat cigar like

[00:35:15] you've got some time to invest and and have some conversations just got to go easy on the

[00:35:21] cocktails yeah exactly my problem is I have to go easy on the cigar too and not puff too quick

[00:35:26] so that's uh that's something I'll get a quick headache if I'm if I'm taking a competitive streak

[00:35:31] to cigar smoking yeah it's it's something you want to like pace yourself yeah and and and especially

[00:35:39] if you're having one that's a little bolder than what you're normally like I'm smoking a

[00:35:44] a blind face Alec Bradley and this is a this a big cigar and the first one I went after it

[00:35:55] pretty hard like you described yeah I didn't feel so good that uh that afternoon so yeah I gotta be

[00:36:01] careful yeah all right man I truly appreciate this good luck with the with the rest of the uh

[00:36:08] the are you doing a tour are you trying to just get on podcasts like what what your just

[00:36:12] podcast right now not not doing any kind of geographic tour or anything like that but

[00:36:16] just putting the word out through friends like you and um just trying to trying to get the

[00:36:21] word out through podcasts right now so relentless sales folks uh it's really if you're in the sales

[00:36:26] game or if you're managing sales people or if you're an entrepreneur in that sales see trying to get

[00:36:31] the hell out there's some ideas in here that can help you stick that that information in your

[00:36:36] team's head so go grab the thanks man appreciate it thanks for having me Walter