Sales and Cigars | Real Estate Resilience with Kyra Jefferson | Episode 186

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars. Today's episode is a friend of mine I met last year at one of my cigar events, Kyra Jefferson. She's in the real estate business. She's been in the real estate business for a while.

[00:00:18] She's done the acquisitions, the investing, she's doing development work. She's got kind of a unique perspective on this. She's got a mentorship program. She wrote a book. There's some really good little nuggets that we're going to share with you.

[00:00:32] If you have any interest at all in the investment world or the development world of real estate, go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail, strap in for another exciting episode of Sales and Cigars. Thanks.

[00:00:58] Hey Kyra, I appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule to jump on the program. Welcome. Thank you. And looking forward to this. Me too. It's been many minutes since I seen you last.

[00:01:11] Yeah, you came to one of my cigar events at La Casa in Detroit, though, and the last year, right? Yes, I did. That was a... I did that for business. I did it for fun, but it was good all around. I think there's something... It was great.

[00:01:29] Yeah, good. I'm glad it was a good experience. I'm planning on doing another one on the west side of the state and then coming back and doing another one in the fall downtown. So I'll make sure to put it on the list.

[00:01:46] So one of the questions I like to ask us is if there's a book that either you kind of go back and reference once a year or something that you gift to other entrepreneurs or people you're mentoring, is there one of those that sticks out for you?

[00:02:07] So I would say I have a book of my own. But the book that I would say, my book is Jefferson's Journey, The Boom, The Bankruptcy and the Bounce Back telling what my lifestyle was before I filed bankruptcy, filing bankruptcy and then leaving my job 70 years later.

[00:02:28] But the book that I would say that I reference a lot and that I recommend to just people in general, but especially entrepreneurs is Millionaire Mind. A Millionaire Mind was great because it changed how I looked at money.

[00:02:45] It changed how I did things and the principles that it discusses they have stuck with me. So it's one of those books that sort of... Some people call it the relationship with money, how they think about it, their desires around it.

[00:03:04] So it had that sort of impact on you? Yes. And Robert Kilsaki, that Rich Dad Poor Dad is definitely another that I can definitely add to the list. I would say between those two, they definitely changed how I looked at money, how I moved

[00:03:22] money, how I did things. Millionaire Mind changed my aspect as how I felt about cars and vehicles because they indicated that if there is a vehicle that they like that comes out, they will not purchase the vehicle until a year later.

[00:03:38] And a year later, the car depreciates in value anywhere between 20 and 30,000. So it just got you to think about property and those things a little differently than how you were prior to reading the book? Okay.

[00:03:54] Because before I had probably car note or car notes, a couple of different vehicles, things of that nature. So I went from having a car note or car notes to no car note. And what I discovered was especially when the market took the dive, really if you added

[00:04:15] up what you spent on your car note and insurance, you had the capability to purchase a property cash. No, you had the capability to add up. Rehab because for instance in 2012, in that timeframe, the market took a crash.

[00:04:37] So had you saved anywhere from five to 10,000, you had the capability even with that small amount to purchase a property or properties for cash. You may not have had the liquidity to fix them up, but at that point it really doesn't

[00:04:56] matter because once you own it, you have the capability to get a loan, pull equity out of it and different things like that. But there was still ownership. Okay. So that had been big impact and it helps you think about your business.

[00:05:15] So let's talk a little bit about how your journey went from it. I think you tell the story in the book. By the way, where can people find the book? The book, the digital product is on Amazon.

[00:05:33] You can definitely connect with me to my, I have a grant with Detroit Means Business. Yay, Detroit Means Business. So they are currently redoing my website. So at the moment it's down, but if through any of my social media platforms, they can

[00:05:50] connect with me and I can autograph and send them a book directly. Awesome. All right, cool. So we'll have that, we'll have the email and things in your LinkedIn so people can ping you to go grab a copy of that.

[00:06:04] So let's talk a little bit about that journey. I mean, you wrote a book about it so there has to be some impactful ideas in there. What were you doing before you started this career in real estate? You went from broker to investor to developer.

[00:06:26] So can we talk a little bit about that arc? What that meant otherwise? I am not a broker, but I am a real estate investor and developer. So what happened was I purchased my first home in Detroit and when the casinos came,

[00:06:48] the property more than doubled in value. So when I got ready to sell the home, I didn't want to put all the funds into another property. So what I did was I bought myself a home and then I bought a duplex.

[00:07:06] And that's kind of how the thing got started. So from the one home I purchased because of how the value increased, I turned around with and sold that one home and purchased two. Well really you could say three.

[00:07:21] So I purchased a duplex which is side by side so that's two units and then I purchased a home for myself. You're managing these properties on your own? Yes. I hired a property management company but I felt I did better and that was one of the

[00:07:37] reasons I left my job is to, for one, I discovered that as I got into real estate and acquired more it was something that I actually enjoyed and I left my job to focus more on what I had.

[00:07:56] I realized that certain things were going on because I worked full time and was working on managing the property. And when I left my job, I found that like some of my contractors would say that

[00:08:08] they were there but because they didn't know that I had left my job I would go on some of the job sites and they weren't there. So they were taking advantage? Because they knew I worked full time.

[00:08:23] When you were working full time were you doing anything related to real estate? How did you get that vote? Well at the time I worked for the state so it had nothing to do with real estate but

[00:08:36] when I, I guess when I originally was selling my home I wanted some type of investment so I had a friend that rehab houses for real estate companies and he said buying property would be a good investment and when I thought about it I

[00:08:57] said yes because you can make an income, the tax write off, you know you can real estate you can hand down throughout generations create wealth and legacy. So that was one of the things that made me go for it.

[00:09:12] Hey everyone, Welter Crosby your host of sales and cigars. Just wanted to let you heads up that next month we're going to do a series of episodes on prospecting. We're going to cover all of the basics, all the fundamentals, the things that

[00:09:27] are going to help make your sales team be consistent hunters. What are the prospecting tactics? What are the things that we know that work? Right so how do we get prepared to do this? I'm going to go through all of this in four episodes.

[00:09:41] I'm going to be just me, I'm going to be talking fast, I'm going to be talking about what we know works, what we know has worked for a long time and probably what your sales team isn't doing.

[00:09:52] So if you're a sales manager, if you're a sales person, if you're a sales leader or a business owner who wants to help your sales team these episodes will be shortened to the point and they will be helpful.

[00:10:04] We'll grab a cocktail, grab a cigar and tune in for those upcoming episodes. Thank you. So creating income, creating wealth, creating legacy. Those are three separate things, three separate ideas all connected. Which one of those was originally a motivator for you? I would say wealth.

[00:10:34] So you define wealth as being able to accumulate assets and sort of sort of build that portfolio and create whether it be stocks or bonds or real estate or other things that's what we're looking at for wealth. And you generate income out of that.

[00:10:57] And then as you try, as you know, you're making this transition, not necessarily a transition, but adding another component to developing properties. That that's a little bit more challenging. I would think like that. A lot more challenging way.

[00:11:16] I mean, more challenging, I can honestly say than I could ever have anticipated. I had no idea. But even though I went through the program and, you know, they talked about it and had all the people come in. Actually doing it is not the same.

[00:11:35] And so all of the. And really, it was just not enough time to go through every single component. And, you know, so I didn't realize about surveys and phase ones. And then maybe a phase two and it's it's a lot to it.

[00:11:50] And so I had no idea, but I'm in it now. But that's how it goes sometimes, you know, if God tell you everything, you wouldn't do it. So he didn't tell me everything because I wouldn't have done it.

[00:12:04] But once you're in it, you got to kind of keep going and figuring things out. So you went through a program that kind of gave you the basics. But what I'm hearing you say is that you got to go get your nose bloodied a little bit.

[00:12:20] You got to get your hands dirty to go to really understand it. And I'm assuming you're money, you know, what they I think they probably discussed it, but, you know, didn't take a deep dive into just pre development costs before you can even break ground.

[00:12:39] And I said it in Detroit, right? Is where you're doing your development? So they got two or three hooks you got to jump through just to just to get the paperwork in the right hands. Yes. So we've we've made those connections. Now I'm just working.

[00:12:54] I've got a couple of grants that help with the pre development costs, but it didn't cover a lot of it. So I'm, you know, looking for funding for to finish with my architect, bring on my civil engineer and then there's construction costs

[00:13:12] and picking the builder and that type of thing. Is this residential or a commercial residential? How many units? We have the possibility with the lots to build anywhere from 7 to 11 single family homes. There's what's interesting, I was I was talking to a client

[00:13:35] out in Philadelphia and they have a program there and they have to have something similar. But his organization is working with the city of Philadelphia to provide quality housing for people who work for the city of Philadelphia. And they're working out. They've worked out situation where his business

[00:14:06] does the heavy lifting, right? They go through make sure the property that's been acquired from the city is going to be able to sustain their building single family homes. And they're they're like giving giving folks that you're living in apartments that are trying to raise a family

[00:14:26] and giving them an opportunity to have like the they call it like the home of their dreams. And we're talking about like, you know, an 1800 to 2000 square foot home with a yard, the whole the whole works in the city.

[00:14:42] It just seems like a great you have to be a city employee to qualify for it. There's some financial things that you have to have to be able to jump through. But his biggest problem isn't finding people that are qualified. It's finding people who actually believe

[00:15:01] that a program like this exists and that they don't have to come out of pocket. They just have to carry the the the mortgage going forward, which is less than what their rent on an apartment is. And that that's a

[00:15:18] I mean, they have to sell that that idea to somebody that it's it's not too good to be true. It's actually true. Is there anything like that going on in Detroit where there's a some sort of program like that?

[00:15:30] Not that I'm aware of a lot of the programs that they have for low and affordable housing and even for new construction projects. Which to me, I mean, if they're all they want rental units. They're not tied to for sale products.

[00:15:48] Yeah, this is that's what I think was makes this unique is that somebody actually owns a piece of property and house and they can, you know, they can raise their kids and raise a family comfortably and, you know, working for the city that

[00:16:05] they're not they're not getting rich working for the for a municipality. But it gives them an opportunity rather than have to go out into the suburbs. So it's an opportunity to have home ownership where renting they're not gaining anything there. They can't write anything off.

[00:16:25] They're not even helping their credit, right? Because the rental landlords don't report to credit bureaus. So even if they make you there's different apps and different things where you can do it, but it has to be either something that you request of the landlord.

[00:16:42] Right. And the way that you can report you can get the credit, the rent reported on your credit report. But this has to be something you have to be proactive about. Yeah, it's not it's not the thing that people just assume it's going to happen. And it's exactly.

[00:16:59] So I mean, you've had to sell ideas. You've had to sell property. You've had to get, you know, sell of renters into a duplex and things like so talk to me a little bit about your your philosophy about selling in that

[00:17:18] in a real estate market because that's I've been involved with commercial real estate. I've purchased homes, but I've never done it for a living other than office buildings and leasing space. But how does that? You know, how does that you think that differs from selling a product,

[00:17:41] you know, from one business to another, you know, janitorial services to another business or some widget? What is there something unique about the real residential real estate market that you have to have to be successful in sales? Well, I sell stability because you got to live somewhere.

[00:18:07] OK. And home ownership is stabilization. Because if I buy the home, that means I don't have to renew a lease every year. But I have to worry about the rent going up. Now, the mortgage might go up.

[00:18:29] Sometimes it even goes down based upon property taxes, insurance and different things like that. But I guarantee the mortgage doesn't go up at the rate that rent goes up. You can get a solid mortgage that, you know, thirty thirty

[00:18:46] year fixed or fifteen year fixed and know you're going to, you know, know if you can't control those taxes and charges from other municipalities. So, you know, when you're talking to somebody that's a potential buyer

[00:18:59] or rental, that's what you're really getting them to think about is the long term, the quality of their life rather than the new windows and the nice hardwood floors in the fireplace. You're you're actually getting them to think about what this means to them

[00:19:15] and their in their life. Yes. And not having to move around a lot. You know, some people, you know, they rent and then when the kid gets, you know, close to school age, then you move in again because you want to,

[00:19:32] you know, you're moving for the school system and all of that kind of stuff. And when you can just purchase an area and stay there and then what if you have another kid, you know, so you can literally focus, stabilize and raise your family and have a home.

[00:19:50] And then when you rent, if you want to paint the walls and do different things, you got to paint it back before you leave. You got to, you know, worry about how many holes did you leave in the wall?

[00:20:03] And then even if you purchase a home, if you feel like over time, you know, you've outgrown it or you want to go to another area, you can you can move, sell the house. You can pull equity out of it and keep that house rented out or whatever,

[00:20:18] Airbnb, purchase another home. So property also gives you when you own it, it gives you leverage. So I mean, leverage for. You're building, you're building equity in the house. And some people don't, some people want to build that equity and keep that equity.

[00:20:36] They don't want to, they don't want to leverage that. And is that? Is there a universal for that? Is like, that a great idea or bad idea? Assuming you just want to live in the house, you know? It's based on circumstance, you know?

[00:20:51] Some people don't want to pull the equity out. So whenever they sell it or whatever, it's almost like a savings account. You know, and then they can cash it in later. Some people get the house and pull the equity out because maybe you have a kid

[00:21:05] going to college or a business you want to start or invest in or, you know, even purchase another property. So there's, it just really depends on the priorities of the person and what are they trying to do and what, you know, so everybody's circumstances or situation is different.

[00:21:24] So why they would want to pull the money out? Their reasons will be different. The, the, the property values in residential and in the city of Detroit is that reading in the paper at different times, there was a upswing. Is it flattened out? Where's it at today?

[00:21:46] We're in, we're in the. Let's see the upswing. Across the board. Crosses and condos or? I don't know too much about condos because I don't deal with condos. I only deal with residential properties, but I do know in Detroit, the property values are going up.

[00:22:07] They have been on it up. They have been, you know, on an uprise for a couple of years now. So, but it's definitely on an upswing now. And people are more, more, more aware of what's going on or more into home ownership now because they're realizing

[00:22:26] the rent versus purchasing and then also in Detroit, they've had various programs and they had like a $25,000 program that they will help you purchase a home if you had a certain income. Sometimes they have no mischief has had where they gave away five

[00:22:45] or $10,000 based upon the zip code that you're in. So they have started to do a lot of different things to motivate people to become homeowners. And that just expands the American dream, if you will, to do other folks that might have might not have the income,

[00:23:08] consistent income to get them there. But that downstroke is usually the problem. Even for a lot of folks who have a six figure income when they go to throw 10, 15, 20 percent down on a house, that becomes a problem. Coming up with that downstroke to help keep your

[00:23:28] insurance down and keep the mortgage payments reasonable. Yeah, exactly. So talk to me a little bit about this mentor, you know, mentoring program that that you have that it's interesting to me that, you know, you you you try to build wealth,

[00:23:48] you you create income, you create a legacy. Is the mentorship is this program part of the legacy in your mind? Like what kind of. Because like I said before, one of my my company is well, legacy through real estate and business. So the mentorship program is basically

[00:24:10] depends on what aspect because some people don't want to get into real estate, but they want to get into business. So the mentorship program is basically where I hold your hand, whether you want to get into real estate, you want to get into business

[00:24:24] or you want to get into both to help you succeed at whatever you do. Because a lot of times when we are doing endeavors, especially new things, you want someone that you trust. And sometimes you need a little hand holding depending on what it is.

[00:24:41] So the mentorship program is for those that want that direct connection, that wants, you know, little hand holding to help you make sure that you get to the finish line and guidance and code.

[00:24:56] Yeah, I had to do the same thing for the book because I would pick it up, put it down, pick it up, put it down. And so I had to hire someone to basically, you know, almost like a paid accountability partner to an extent,

[00:25:10] but still helping me get the book done. But still, you know, OK, you got to get this done by this time. You got it, you know, and you just got to know what kind of person you are

[00:25:19] and how bad do you want whatever it is that you want? I have a I had a mentor. I now have a coach, so I am always even myself. I pride myself on having mentorship, coaches and different things.

[00:25:34] I'm always doing programs, workshops, challenging myself to do different things, meet new people just like we met. CEOs and cigars, I didn't know anybody. But now I know you. I know Josh. I know, you know, so challenging yourself to step outside of yourself

[00:25:56] to do something that you've never done or go in a room that you don't know anybody. But, you know, like I didn't know anybody, but there were several things in the room, not just business, but just relationship, conversation, laughter, you know, just, you know,

[00:26:13] just camaraderie. So a lot of times, you know, we can get in this such a comfortableness with where we're at, what we're doing. But we also say we want to elevate, we want to scale up,

[00:26:26] we want to meet new people, but we don't make the moves or the steps to do it. We talk about it, but you got to talk and walk it. So I'm always challenging myself to do something different,

[00:26:39] to do to be different or to go in a room or go to a place somewhere where I've never been, never done and have a new experience. Usually to get where we want to go, we got to go through a little bit of uncomfortableness, right?

[00:26:57] And depending upon what it is that we're going for, sometimes that's more intense than others. But if we're not willing to do that, then, you know, stick to the nine to five and, you know, just go do your thing. There's nothing wrong with that.

[00:27:14] But if you really want to have that entrepreneurial mindset, you got to go do things. And the part of the reason I did that event was that there was a common thing. Most of the people that were there had some relationship with cigars.

[00:27:34] And that, so you walk into a room and you don't know anybody. There were people walking into my event that I didn't know. There were three or four people that I knew pretty well. And there were probably 15 that I had never met before.

[00:27:51] And what was really cool was to just kind of take a step back and go into the corner and just kind of watch people interacting. That, you know, they kind of pulled each other in. And to me it was the cigars that was the common thing.

[00:28:10] What are you smoking or what did you learn about this? And it makes it easier. Like I know I can go anywhere in the country and, you know, if I'm at a hotel and go to the concierge, say, Hey, where's there a cigar shop, a local shop?

[00:28:25] Not a flashy place just to, you know, a nice lounge to go and have a cigar. And you walk in there. There's characters in there. Like they're always characters. They're funny. I walked into one where my daughter went to University of Kentucky.

[00:28:47] And she graduated this year, but there were, there's a couple of shops down there. And I walked into this one. It's just like a neighborhood place. Right? It's been around since the 50s. And I walked in there on a Saturday morning and I had my little computer bag

[00:29:04] because I was going to kill some time, do a little work and have a cigar. And as soon as I walked in, like all six heads turned and looked at me, sized me up and they're like, you're not from around here.

[00:29:20] Right? They pegged me as a Yankee just because I the way I dressed or something. And, you know, they were like, hey, you know, come on in. Like, you know, what, you know, what are you doing in town? And there's a conversation going.

[00:29:33] Right. And did I have anything in common with those guys? Cigars. Cigars. And, you know, they all had kids and they were telling me their experiences. I mean, it was I didn't get any work done.

[00:29:47] No. But it's it was I always feel like I'm going to it's a little adventure going into a shop no matter where it is, you know, Philadelphia, Kentucky, Miami, I'm going to Miami next week.

[00:30:01] You know, I'm going to go find us a cigar shop and just go go hang out. Do that when I go out of town. Actually, I went to Maryland and met a gentleman. His thing is called the Stogie Company and he invited me to a party.

[00:30:19] They did a cigar party at a golf course. OK. When I tell you I had never experienced anything like that, but I had a great time. They had a DJ. He had a table selling cigars. It was men, women, just all kind of smoking, vibing.

[00:30:37] You know, it was a great experience and then to especially have this experience and be out of time. Yeah. It was. Contacted him recently asking him, you know, what they got going on. You know, what's the schedule and some different things.

[00:30:52] So he was glad to hear from me. He remembered me. And this was a couple years ago, probably about two years ago. And so just to build that relationship. It you can. I go back to certain towns and, you know, they don't know my name,

[00:31:10] but they know what I like to smoke. It's really weird. Yeah, I was after sales of cigar. I would have my cigar. It's kind of a, you know, it's it allows it gives you the comfort to go do some things,

[00:31:28] but you never know what you're going to walk into. But I always feel like, you know, I'm going to find something and it doesn't matter wherever I go. That is I mean, I've been to like the Dominican

[00:31:42] where I don't speak Spanish and we went into a little cigar shop and they tried really hard. Like, you know, their English was a little broken, way better than my Spanish. But it was it was a lot of fun to try to get them because they're

[00:32:01] this particular gentleman had like he was growing tobacco and he sold the tobacco to a company that made the cigars. And then he got he came back and did the retail in the cigars. So he was part of the process of making the cigars.

[00:32:18] And it took took a little bit for me to get to understand it. But we I learned a little bit about tobacco plants and I learned about how they age things. It was it was a great little experience. It doesn't matter where you go.

[00:32:30] If you, you know, you can you can find some common link with with anybody when you're a cigar guy or gal, it's just one of those things. It is. And I even I even did it in California in San Diego.

[00:32:46] I was yeah, I thought I'd get arrested for smoking a cigar in California. But they had a they had a beautiful little cigar shop in the Gaslight District. And you could sit outside, you could sit inside, have a cocktail and a cigar.

[00:33:02] It's pretty much when I wasn't at the conference, that's where my office was. So if you're ever in town, that's a river in San Diego, that's it's a great little spot. What's the name of the San Diego? Yeah, that's what I knew you were going to ask me.

[00:33:17] I have to go dig it up. That's OK. Wherever I go before I go, I'm going to ask you if you know of a cigar spot or like you said, when I go, I'm going to do that because I went to Fort Lauderdale.

[00:33:30] That's the thing I didn't do. So I'm going to have to go places. I'm going to find this. I'm going to find me a cigar spot everywhere. Instead, hey, instead of the outlet mall, I'm going to find me a cigar spot. It's not necessarily.

[00:33:44] Oh, not less expensive, but it you won't have as many packages to bring back with you. Yeah, I'm probably still going to go shopping. I'm not going to lie to you. Well, one of the reasons to be honest that I go outlet shopping,

[00:33:58] first of all, the prices and second of all, the uniqueness of the products. So when I buy stuff out of town, even if it's a name brand, like if I buy a Nike outfit, nobody is going to have that Nike outfit here.

[00:34:14] Because the buyer in Florida and the buyer in Michigan ain't the same. So that's that's really true. I hadn't really thought about that, but especially in Florida, they have a whole different. They don't have a lot of winter gear. They don't have a lot of winter gear there.

[00:34:29] But but they got a lot of stuff. I'm telling you, Fort Lauderdale or Lando. I haven't did any shopping in really Miami just hanging. But Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, they got some. They got some shopping for you. Even the outlet in Vegas, Vegas, been to the outlet in Vegas.

[00:34:49] So Vegas got a good one too. Not as you know, you'll find some things just depend on taste and style. But Vegas got and they Vegas have two different ones. They have like a premium and a different, you know, like a lower scale.

[00:35:02] But yeah, that's one of them to have you been to issues La Casa out there in Vegas, just a little bit out of town. No, I didn't even know they had one. Yeah, I'll send you the link to that.

[00:35:17] Well, if you go to the website at La Casa's website in Detroit and you click on the Vegas location, it's a really it's in a it's in a little ritzy little town, but it's a beautiful little spot to go. They have shopping.

[00:35:32] It is not outlet shopping, but they have shopping. It's more like for Dale Drive. Yes, I'm a premium price. I don't know. Hey, I'm going to be there for the cigar, not to shop. And so there you go. All right.

[00:35:46] We're going to have we're going to have a your a couple of different links for you in the show notes. What's what's the best way if somebody wants to grab that? You know, take you up on that offer to get the book and have you sign it.

[00:35:59] They were they ping you with your email or just go to the link tree? What's the best spot they can? They can go to my email, any of my social media platforms. Probably Facebook. You can message me on Facebook. You can send me an email.

[00:36:14] I always check my emails. So any of those things and on link tree as well. If you go on link tree, I do offer a free 15 minute consultation. So if you wanted to just, you know, pick my brain for 15 minutes

[00:36:30] or speak to me about something that is also available on link tree. But as far as the book, they can definitely message me on Facebook. I have LinkedIn, Instagram and you know, you definitely can email me everywhere. So they can repel you just about anywhere.

[00:36:49] I mean, that's the way of the world now. And I haven't even got they've been pushing me to tick tock. I'm like, y'all, I'm trying to manage this. So I haven't even made it on tick tock yet. So don't. Hey, y'all don't don't talk about me.

[00:37:03] I know about tick tock. I just ain't made it there yet. Take your time. That's it might be going away or going to get sold. So are you serious? Yeah, it's owned by the Chinese and there's some some concerns about that. So I can only imagine.

[00:37:22] So people reach out and grab the book. Go get your get 15 minutes with with you to pick your brain on some real estate ideas, you know, check out on the link tree. I have a couple free products to talking about real estate and some

[00:37:37] different business and some things. So on the link tree, not only can you get the free 15 minute consultation, there's also some free products on there as well. Awesome. Well, thank you much for taking the time to have a chat. And hopefully this helps you navigate.

[00:37:53] Thank you for having me. I'll develop my project. Thank you. And thank you for having me. Thank you.