Sales and Cigars | Sarah Miskelly on Women in Sales and Real Estate Investment | Episode 189

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Today's guest is probably the guy that's the most responsible for the money I have made,

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the development that I have made, the strides that I've made in the sales profession,

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Gerry Weinberg from Gerry Weinberg & Associates.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Thirty years ago he taught me what is the foundation of how I operate, how I think

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: about sales and we just have a great conversation about sales as two sales professionals talking

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: about what we think is right and wrong with the business today.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales people are still struggling, they're struggling for a lot of the same reasons

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that they struggled at the beginning and some of it has a lot to do with the business

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: owners and CEOs that they work for and we talk a little bit about that.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about sales managers struggling because they're put into positions that they just

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: can't win.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not given the tools, they're promoted for the wrong reasons and Gerry and I

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: agree on something that when you start a program to train or develop your sales

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: team you have to get the managers, you've got to get leadership involved, they've

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: got to buy in, they've got to support this endeavor otherwise it just won't work.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar, strap in for another exciting episode of sales and

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: cigars.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So Gerry welcome to the program.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I am not sure why it took me this long to get you on but saving the saving the

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: best for last because you're not my last either.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what my excuses.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have them.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We go back a ways.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it 30 years, 28 years?

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_00]: When did you remember when we started?

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't specifically remember when you started.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I know this is our 32nd year doing Sampler.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I started in the late 90s.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I could be.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a minute.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the person responsible for me being successful in sales.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the person who gave me proper training, didn't let me off the hook.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're kind of the wizard of Oz behind so many salespeople in the

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: trade area.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you're being very kind.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously you had a great deal to do with it.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I just listened and tried to apply things.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So let me ask this question.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a book that like if you got a business owner who's wants to

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: grow and has sort of a mindset issue, is there a book that you recommend

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that they go get to something that you do gift on a regular basis?

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: We probably have well over 30 Sandler books at this point.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But I have read probably close to a thousand business books along the way.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I try to read on a regular basis because you know what?

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You never stop learning.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm always reminded of a quote from my father.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He said, all my life I've been searching for the answers and now that

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: they finally found some of the answers, they've gotten changed to all the

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: questions and that's so true.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the world has changed.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we got into this business when there were fax machines

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and I have a bag phone.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: 1992.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it seems like a long time ago and it was, but you know, we're still

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: young, I'm surrounded by young people on our team and with my daughter

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Alana who's really running the company, she's the owner of it now.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We're in a whole new phase.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing and we just keep running and it's a beautiful thing.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You have, you've adapted from the fax machine era.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: We've had to, yeah.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember my first job in New York City.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The, I walked into the quote unquote mailroom and probably some people

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: won't remember mailrooms and the guy that owned the company was in there.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He was all excited because he had bought a fax machine.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It was the size of a small Buick, right?

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, but he was like so excited and I'm like, who are you going

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to fax Joe and he looked at me goes, Oh, I don't know.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So we jumped on the phone calling all of his buddies to try to figure

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: out who had a fax machine so he could practice faxing and his lawyer

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: had one, so that was his first fax.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you probably have a bunch of these stories, but is there, talk

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit about something that you thought was going to be a failure

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that it wasn't working out and then through your will and tenacity,

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it turned it into success.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that could be like a lot of sales deals, but is there

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: something big that stands out in your career?

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I've always been a sales person and even though we're

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in a sales and training business, if we don't sell, got nobody to train.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously we have to be very good at training as well.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We have that success.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: A mutual friend of ours, they've had a term called will to sell.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I always had that.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can remember as a kid, it's shoveling snow, doing lawn mowing,

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: selling newspapers, I was always the best as a kid, as a teenager,

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: because that was my motivation.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't going to be a second baseman for the Yankees, so I had to do

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: something and I still have that dream, by the way, but now it's for the Tigers.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You still have the phone line?

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You still have the phone line?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I have an extra line in the house just in case.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to miss the call.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want it to go voicemail.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, we just had the draft recently and my name was not on it.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I check from time to time to see if you're on the list.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, we're having fun.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: As far as successes and failure, you know, starting out in this business,

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I failed on a daily basis, but I learned that failure was good from the point

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that you learn from your failures so you don't repeat them.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, as we started out in this business with what I call

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: one-Z, two-Z type opportunities, that's how we started.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the beginning and how it has mushroomed because those people

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: have introduced me along the way and then introduced our company

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: to some giant companies, which is, you know, we're so grateful for that.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And referrals are such a key to our business, referrals and introductions.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And today with people moving from company to company,

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: we've been able to stay in touch with them and they take us to their new company.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, some fairly large companies, some global companies,

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that we were never going to get to the president of the company

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: by picking up the phone and calling.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you got to be referred in.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just beautiful, along with the growth of Sandler.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: When I got in this business, I think there were maybe 30 of us.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And as you know, it's a franchise and we were all east of the Mississippi.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And today, heck, we're in 30 countries.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, we are the biggest sales training organization.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And whether we're training an individual or a midsize company

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: or a large company doesn't matter.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: The process works, the system works and.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's my life, it's my livelihood.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And people say to me, Weinberg, you know.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you work?

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you could retire, right?

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But I gave up golf.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't very good at golf.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And my wife knows I can't stay home.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to do something like it can only go to the gym so many days a week.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a lot of fun.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You could play a little squash, but even that, right?

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Those days are, you know,

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the guys I play with now are half my age and twice as good.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they don't have a whole lot to do with me anymore.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Once upon a time, I was pretty good.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I won some racquetball trophies.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, but it's that.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason to retire.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: No, in the sense you can kind of take your time.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You can do what you want to do.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But what really comes out of what?

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: The time I spent in and, you know,

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in the basement of the old Cold America building, right?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We go back a long time.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We call it lower level, but that's OK.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: OK. I went downstairs.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, from the ground floor.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And but the passion

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that was there for everybody that was in the training room

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: is still there today.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. You know, when you know whether you're talking about

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: sales, you're talking about those training, you're talking

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: about what you do, that passion hasn't waned.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the passion is still there every day.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to get out of bed and come do this.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And because I know every day there are companies

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we can help, individuals we can help to grow.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what's interesting?

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Walter, the the quality of

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to call it salesmanship, for lack of a better word,

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: hasn't really gotten any better after all these years.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: When I first got in sales, we were 100 percent commissioned.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you were motivated.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I see some lack of commitment

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: on the part of a lot of sales organizations today.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's sad it hasn't gotten any better.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's what you

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: what you mentioned earlier, our mutual friend.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that mental toughness?

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have a theory about why.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales for the profession hasn't elevated

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: itself over the years.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's it's one of the highest paid professions.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's one of the most,

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, enjoyable.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun. Right.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But the bar to entry is, can you fog a mirror?

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you show up for an interview sometimes?

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Not always. Yeah.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes and that that hasn't really changed

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to go get an entry level sales job.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's pretty it's pretty easy

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're willing to do the work.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's harder to be successful because you need all of those

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the mental toughness you need to be willing to learn.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And and I see that.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I see that a lot when when I'm working with salespeople,

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like, well, this is good enough.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Or I'm OK with where I am now.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And to me, that's.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's OK to be comfortable.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's OK to take a minute to enjoy what you've accomplished.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't have a drive to get a little bit better

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, if you're not driving

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because you're just going to you're going to stay in that same

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that same spot.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I see that it's been there for a long time,

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't see that changing either.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you mentioned a few words in there that are

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that I think are critical to success.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: There's still a lot of people in comfort zones

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and not willing to do what it what it takes.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: There is fear of success.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the fear of picking up the phone and calling someone.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, prospecting is that hasn't gone away

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because I don't care what your book of business is today.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to lose some business through no fault of your own.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to die, they're going to move, they're going to emerge.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be acquired private equity, whatever it is.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've got to replace that business at the top of the funnel constantly.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: David Sandler used to say the day you stop prospecting

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: is the day you start to go out of business.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That hasn't changed.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And the fear of picking up the phone, people hate the word no.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's my second most favorite word. I love those.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so it is the second favorite word, right?

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I heard that a lot in the lower level.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you look out the window behind me, that is the Camerican building.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And we moved four years ago.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We're now next door in the Onyx building.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We spent a lot of years in that building.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a long time.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: OK. And I think there's a so the other part of my theory

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: is the low bar of entry and complacency

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and the sort of lack of of desire to to grow.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And they almost see sales as a stepping stone to go do something else.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think there's another big factor that

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the thing that's kind of worse than salespeople's mindset

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: is that of a sales manager. Oh, boy.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: All right. I mean, that's just

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I always share my story that I was promoted.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I was at a at a holiday party back then.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a Christmas party.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was the two owners said, hey, come on, come to the bar.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We want to talk to you.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I looked at my wife and like, all right, get your purse and your coat.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: This is either going to be really bad

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're going to leave or it'll it'll be OK.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And they offered me the sales manager

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: director job for US and Canada.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I was an idiot and I said yes.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I was excited about it.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And on the way home, my wife asked me the question.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. I'm happy.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever managed anybody before?

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you can barely manage yourself.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been there.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But but I had to go out.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she put she shined the big light on it.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So I had to go out and figure out what that what I needed to do.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, reading books and talking to people and trying to understand

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it, it takes a lot of effort because, you know,

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a role where I still had to produce plus manage

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: five or six knuckleheads.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so it's so tough to balance that.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So very difficult.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, nobody taught you how to be a coach.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what that's what a 60, 70 percent of the sales managers should be.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Their time should be spent coaching.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They hate it.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they don't do it.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, at some point they get fired.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So the problem in many companies is really at the top

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: with management because they're not hiring the right people for sale.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I I became a sales manager because I was the best salesman.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was totally I mean, I was horrible at it.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I wish I would have known Sandler then.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then as you say, you also have to produce

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: as well as to oversee the team.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very, very challenging.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And management does not know even today

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: how to hold people accountable.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, how to get rid of deadwood.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And they keep people forever because, well,

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: everybody likes them and they don't produce.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to tell you about a project that I started called Sales Velocity.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a weekly email that comes out early on a Monday

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_00]: before the shit hits the fan.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And what is it?

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just sales tips.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's for that for that business owner, that CEO, that sales leader

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: who's looking for a little tip to kind of inspire them for the week,

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: an idea that they might be able to try to implement.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very simple.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It tells a bunch of stories about me, things I've screwed up

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: along the way, some successes.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: All you have to do is go down into the show notes and click on

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the sales velocity link and you can sign up and you'll

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: they'll pop in your email on Monday morning just once a week.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's you know, so the the the lack of accountability, right?

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It starts with the CEO, the business owner, right?

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They have to set that tone.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't have to always be a stick, right?

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It you can give people a chance and you.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I see a lot and I'm curious as to your take on this

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is that accountability is difficult because they don't set the expectation.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't clearly say we expect you to make 40 outbound calls a day.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they have a cookbook from there

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that gets them to what they need to do.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't they don't explain that.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, is there another?

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's and that should be coming from the top.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody at the top should have figured this out and told

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the sales manager and they just hope that salespeople

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and sales managers figure it out.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a it's a major challenge.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We do what we can.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know what happens, you know,

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody reaches out to you and they want you to come train your people

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and they think, well, let's let's do, you know,

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: we get calls all the time.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We'd like you to come out and do a one day seminar for us.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, my standard answer after all these years is

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: did you want it to work?

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, you're going to write me a big check

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and people are going to have a good time.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But 30 days later, they won't remember anything.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're all about and I know that you are a big proponent as well

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: of ongoing reinforcement training without that, it won't work.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And the results that our clients get, I mean, after years and years,

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they they keep staying with us for a reason.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: They get better and they keep growing.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I got an email earlier this week from from a company,

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: a small company.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We doubled their sales and they thought they were fixed, right?

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And they just they figured they didn't need us anymore.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, you know, they probably forgot half of it

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and they kind of tripled their business.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But story for another day.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But but it but it but it speaks to the mindset of the business owner.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And in this audience, there's a lot of business owners.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of CEOs that are running,

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, not multibillion dollar organizations, but,

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, tens of millions of dollars in revenue.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, what I what I try to get them to see is

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you're you're making assumptions about your salespeople

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that they know what to say and they know how to say it.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And they have the right tone.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, just because they do it once doesn't mean

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: they can do it two or three times.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. It's it's a it requires, as you say, constant attention,

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: coaching and and facilitating those things.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you bring new people in and you got to

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you got to bring those people into the to the fold as well.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And along the way, we've learned a lot.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, culture is is credit critical success.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things a lot of night are working with a company right now

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: where we're only starting with management because

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: we've learned down through the years.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't start with salespeople, we start with management

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and they get to go first and they need to experience it

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: because after all, they're going to be with their salespeople

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: on a regular basis.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And we may only see them, you know, whatever the cycle is once

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: a month, once every two weeks, whatever.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And management has to buy in.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And if management doesn't support any training,

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you can't just write a check and say, you know, go get them.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: They have to support it and they have to they have to know

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: what their people are learning.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, it will work.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just throwing away money.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And they they.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a sort of this takes them to an attitude of,

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I've done sales training and it doesn't work.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they checked it off the box. Right. Right.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if you dig into the to like, what did they do?

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have their sales manager in the sales training.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The sales manager is busy, you know,

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and you bring up culture and, you know,

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Hamish Knox had a quote.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, he said it to me, so he probably said it to thousands of people.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The sales culture is the attitude and the behaviors that.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the company accepts, right?

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: If you accept mediocrity and if you accept

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: lack of accountability and you accept poor performance,

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's your culture.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree. That's right.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's trying to unravel that.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It sometimes it just feels like, you know, it's not.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I get to my point.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a little therapy for Walter, Jerry.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: How do it?

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times I feel like I care more.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: About the performance and generating the revenue

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: than the business owners do. Yeah.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I really struggle

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: with that and trying to get their attention.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it's like you feel like you get your.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I get my head patted like it's it's going to be OK.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: We do 12 or 15.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter. Yeah.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It does matter. Of course.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm reminded of a of a Sandler trainer in our network

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: who will actually say these words

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_02]: when they're still a prospect.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He says, if I am more committed to your growth than you are.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't going to work.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And we might as well not start.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are gutsy words.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, if you're uncomfortable

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: asking tough questions and doing gutsy things,

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you might as well get out of the business.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Completely. And I should.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You used to tell me I could say whatever I wanted

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: as long as I said it in a nurturing fashion.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That hasn't changed.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. But I still struggle with nurturing

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: because my version of what you just said

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: is that we're sitting at the table, we're all ready to go.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: The checkbook is there.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The agreement is signed.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I look at them and say, can I tell you why this isn't going to work?

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You. It's a little harsher.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I and I can't always get myself out of it.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the situations where I don't get out of it is

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is they're good because there would be a failure.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't like failures.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But I really do need to soften that up a little bit.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the moment we let a customer, a client, a prospect dictate to us

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: about our business, they don't know our business.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: They think, man, I got a great sales team.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: They've been with me on an average of 15, 20 years, blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing great.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we find out that half of their people

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: aren't trainable and coachable.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: They shouldn't even be in

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: not not be in our training program, they shouldn't be in a company.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I know you believe in doing assessments as well beforehand.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a diagnosis

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to benchmark what's going on and seeing what the real issues are,

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: not the surface issues.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the underlying hidden things that are getting in the way of their success.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's in it.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And they can be used as coaching tools.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, that I was with a client last week

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and we go on through the analysis initially and like you've got nine people

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and. You know, what is this showing here?

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody agreed that three of the people are in the wrong role.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. Good people.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm hmm.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, loyal.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like, so why are they still in this role?

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_00]: They're struggling. You're frustrated.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Who's whose decision is this?

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: What can we do to move them around?

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it says clearly here that they are not coachable.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You just reminded me I have a situation very similar to that

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: with one guy who absolutely did not have ambition and drive,

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: didn't have anything, and I didn't want to take him into training.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I don't want you to pay for this guy.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He's never going to get any better.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And he says to me, but Jerry, he's my brother-in-law.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I can still remember that to this day.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a that actually is a line from

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I go back to the cassette tapes of David Sandler,

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, doing his little workshops.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The set tapes.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Remember cassette tapes?

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And there is a line in there like he's still with you

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: because he's your brother-in-law, right?

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't be a real.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember all the context, but it but it's not always

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the brother-in-law, it's just like somebody feels some type of allegiance

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to these people.

[00:29:35] And it.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: In very few cases.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just had I just had one recently of a breakthrough

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: with somebody who was conditionally compliant.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And it should do whatever we wanted her to do,

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: as long as she thought it was a good idea.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And they had to let her get away with things for a very long time.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: She was a top producer, but not the top salesperson.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So so managed an account.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And they just let it they let it go.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And like she has potential.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: She just we have to get her attention.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And once once I was allowed the latitude to get the attention,

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's off to the races.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she'll be unstoppable, but that's the rarity.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the ones that that aren't performing are not performing for.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales, I use sales DNA, right?

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: They just have some sort of

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: mental their mindset is off their attitude there

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and they don't do the right behaviors.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's incredibly frustrating to watch.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've I've I said that person can't come into the program

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: because you're just going to waste you're going to waste money.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're they're literally offended.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to throw their money away.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really what?

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_02]: The term hostages comes up frequently.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we don't want to have the hostages in the room.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's that's a good way to look at it.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's another thing that's popped up

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: in my world where people are talking a lot about it.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of curious your your take on it.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And and I'll give you mine so that

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe you have cover, but work life balance.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm the guy that was making a sales call from

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Disney World online for a ride.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of time at Disney World when you're on the line.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And I get a guy on the phone and he's like, where the hell are you?

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Disney World told him what I was doing.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, why you call me?

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you had a problem.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You want me to help.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So I got time to talk it through.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can turn it on and off.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But like, what's what's the theory?

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, your theory on sales and having that

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that that balance for a salesperson

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: as to how they operate, you know, countries.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've got some people that think they need to work 80 hours a week.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you've got someone that can produce strong results in 30 hours a week,

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: well, go for it.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Pardon me.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just came back from 10 days in Florida.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we thought it was hot and humid here.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a furnace down there.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But we so happens we have

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: our youngest son in this family are down there and we have two little

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: grandsons. And so it's important to to spend some time there as well.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to be able to balance it.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I want to take off at three o'clock in the afternoon

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and go to the gym, I'll do it.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I still get up early in the morning.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's my nature.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of my mindset.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And you just have to balance it.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I was I was a Dan Sullivan client for many years and strategic coach.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had the concept of focus days and free days.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And a free day is a 24 hour period where you don't

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: even think business, you know, you know, look at the phone, you know.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I flunked that one.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'll still.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Read, you know, and I'll still do emails.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll read emails when I'm on vacation

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and I still consume newspapers every day.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: How many of these days?

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And down to about four and a half.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I get I get the free press and the Wall Street Journal

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: at four thirty in the morning on the driveway and the rest I read digitally.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I still do the free press crossword at night.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's my nature.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's it's it's who I am.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I still read a ton of books.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I got a Kindle is the best thing that ever happened from my reading,

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: because when we used to go away on vacation,

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to suitcase the books.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So we've gotten past that.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, and all the emails and all the

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the newsletters and everything else, it's

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: it's my life.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a lifelong learner, you know, whatever that is.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sports is a huge part of my life.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I still follow box scores every day.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's it's it's who I am.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: That part isn't going to change, but it's part of my balance.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: My balance.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But you your balance is so what you're saying is.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have to figure it out for yourself

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have to find time to turn on, turn off.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: If I go away and I really try to take a week where I'm just going to be away.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, five thirty, I'm still looking at emails.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And at five thirty at night, you know, I might have

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: a cocktail in my hand and a cigar, and I might be looking at emails

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that point as well, because it's just to me,

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like I don't want to come back to craziness.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Understood. Yeah.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's I think it's part of being an entrepreneur

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's what salespeople are.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: They're entrepreneurs. Exactly.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. Because you're working for yourself.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_02]: My dad was a business owner,

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: had a small furniture store in upstate New York and

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I learned from him.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: He was a mentor.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my dad started off as a fuller brush man.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody knows what that is anymore.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what that is.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He went door to door.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't think we had two nickels to rub together,

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_02]: but somehow, you know,

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I was able to go to college

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and my sister was able to go to college

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and and he he had a life and it was good.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was my mentor.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, physically, we even looked the same,

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: which could be scary.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: When he passed away, my sister said, you know,

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a picture of dad

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_02]: on the refrigerator door to look at from time to time.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, I just look in the mirror.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, that's funny.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_00]: They but but the.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The door to door salesman back then.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, knocking on doors in a neighborhood,

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_00]: knocking on every door.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That's tough.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's personal, right?

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just a click that you hear

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: on with a phone call being somebody hanging up.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a it's literally a door being shut in your face.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and you know, maybe some snide little comments.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But I will tell you,

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of this is kind of you'll probably delete this from the recording,

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but it was kind of off kilter.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But my dad and then those days was a glass milk bottle.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: My dad had a glass milk bottle.

[00:38:04] And he would put it.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Empty under the front seat of his car,

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: so that if nature called,

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: because like I said, you could delete that.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But I know I can remember that as a kid.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Go out. Yeah, hopefully they got that got laundered every once in a while.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: The last last question,

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we could talk for quite a while,

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: but is there something in particular that jumps out at you?

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't need names,

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but just anything that you hear on social media or

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: books about.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales development, sales training,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: some guru giving advice that just sucks

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and I mean, there's some stuff out there like,

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the phone is dead, right?

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Or whatever. Right.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: The people that say that.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And is there anything that stands out in your mind over the years

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that you've heard that just really you don't have to use the word sucks,

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_00]: but just doesn't, you know,

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't land well with people.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people out there have an agenda.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, depending on what it is that you're pushing.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So they will tell you that cold calling doesn't work

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: because you may make ninety nine dials.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You may you may talk with six people.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You may set three meetings.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You may close two deals.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But here's a number that will blow you away.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it has only gotten worse since since Covid.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: There are over 300 billion,

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what it would be, business emails in this country every single day.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So more and more because people say cold calling doesn't work.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So the amount of emails going like this,

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but the amount of openings is going like this.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We were on radio for years, you know.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I came to you.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: WJR.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And that that really helped to build a business.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And even today, people say, I remember you.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we used to say we're famous for our difficult

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and expensive sales training.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not for everyone.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Made the phone ring.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But here's what I know, whether you're sending emails or texts

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or video emails,

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you've got to have a

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: a balance of all of them.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We call sequencing phone calls work

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can have a conversation with someone.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, everybody's talking about artificial intelligence.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to change the universe.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: This is still a business of people.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to be able to have a conversation with someone,

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a business conversation.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And as we know for years and years,

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the biggest problem that salespeople have is they talk too much.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. OK.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So you've got to be able to ask questions.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And I get permission to not only ask good questions,

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but tough questions, because I know that my job is to find out

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: the real truth.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, this isn't going to work.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so all those books out there that talk about doing this

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and doing that, and there are a lot of gurus

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: still need to pick up the phone and call

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and balance it.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And as we know, it's

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: it's taking more and more attempts

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're cold calling

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to finally reach the right people.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And you got to reach the person, you know, higher up.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The guy that can say yes or the gal that can say yes.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And it may take, they say, 12, 14, 16 attempts.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the real number is.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It changes for everyone.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Got to have cell phone numbers, obviously.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why we do.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank goodness for referrals and introductions.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, someone will, you know, introduce us to someone.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's beautiful because that sale was already made

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: before we ever get started.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's pre sold.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Pre sold. I mean, the high, high percentage.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And thank goodness for that.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've we've earned it.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've helped a lot of companies

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: make a lot of money and grow their people.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we see people in the street, the restaurant, you know.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_02]: My wife will be there.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And the guy that the guy will say, you know, your husband changed my life.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_02]: there's nothing better than that.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I started this conversation.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's true.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's more than growing sales.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's growing people, you know, for confidence.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So many people just in this country.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, everybody's torn apart, you know, politically and everything else.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And doom and gloom.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: There's so much positivity out there.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And to give people the confidence to succeed in sales.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's face it, sales is tough.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. I mean, to be really good.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you got to I don't care how good you are.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to really want it.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Use the term earlier ambition and drive.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have that,

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to get off the bus, you know, the first time you hear a no.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to wait through all of that.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's taking longer and longer to close deals, as you know.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, and one of our sayings is time kills deals.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So a lot is doing a webinar at this very moment on

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: pipeline management or peace, right?

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. You know it.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I heard it when I was in Orlando.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And so this is a one hour version of that

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: going on right now from two to three o'clock.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's that's another way to sell.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It's from the being on stage.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. We're on stage.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, what you're doing here with us.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't expect the phone's going to ring off the hook

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: because you and I are talking, but wouldn't that be nice?

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's all that's all part of growing your business.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything works and nothing works.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to do it all.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. And Alana's gotten really comfortable.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: On stage, yeah, in it.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Really comfortable on stage in front of her peers, which is the toughest.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can be difficult.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Although salespeople are the easiest.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: What did you say? Like shooting fish in a barrel?

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: The easiest salespeople, the easiest to sell because we want to we want to buy

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think you answered my question.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all about.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing a little bit of everything, trying to get better at all of it,

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_00]: because, I mean, we can we can tie it back to baseball, right?

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_00]: If you got a 30 percent

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: win rate, you can earn a living and in some companies you can be a hero.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_00]: The only other place you can really do that is, you know, baseball.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm hitting three hundred or, you know, a weatherman.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even have to hit three hundred.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's a.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you kind of landed on the thing that I hear that people say

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: this or that is dead and you got to do social media.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you got to do a little bit of everything, be everywhere.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And and but the message has to be.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what your brand is, right?

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you want people to think different about sales,

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: if you want to elevate the sales profession, if you want

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you want to change lives, whatever that is, that has to come out, I think.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And when people try to switch from doing this thing to that thing

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and being this guy over here, you lose credibility.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I agree.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_00]: In sales, you know, we have.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It is incredibly difficult.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to have the commitment and the desire to do it.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But and you got to have that that drive to get

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to try to get better and take a little risks, take some risks

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because the rewards are there if you do.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's and there's no there's no growth without risk was

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that's one of David Saylor's great one liners.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: No growth without risk and never be satisfied.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Just keep moving.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's I I usually ask a guest the last this question.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I know the answer to the question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Castor present any relationship with cigars

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_00]: for you or any cool story you saw with cigars?

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I have never smoked a cigar, and it's not on my list of things to account.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So no disrespect to you.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done taking.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's just that way.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That might think I've never smoked a cigarette in my.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Ever.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But I have had a couple of cigarettes.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_02]: There you go. And you enjoyed it.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_02]: This has been great.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Why did we why did we wait so long to do this?

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. It's my fault.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I have this is a no.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't have any I don't have an excuse.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, just we might even want to do it again.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We wait.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It it could be.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but the areas we could go and so, yeah, we could do it again.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you taking the time from your perch.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you guys on the fourth floor now in the eyes?

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Second floor. Second floor.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so you said a bunch of things here that I think, you know, people are interested.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I I'm a big fan.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you taught me how to how to engage with with

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_00]: prospects and customers.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You taught me that that, you know, commitment that that that drive.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I still struggle with the nurturing thing a little bit, but

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just part of my nature.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I like to get myself into trouble so I can see if I can get myself out.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's a masochist or what, but

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but so how do people

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_00]: how do people get in touch with you?

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm going to have all your details in the show notes,

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but, you know, they want to ping Jerry's email phone number call you.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I love I love cell phone calls 248

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_02]: 231-7890.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: 231-7890.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Just give out your cell phone to the world.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't love her.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Jerry with a G G E R R Y dot Weinberg

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_02]: at Sandler dot com.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But doesn't Jerry at Jerry Weinberg dot com still work?

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: That still works, you know.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So I haven't changed that in my system.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So Jerry at Jerry Weinberg dot com works just as well.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're here.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think sales training is absolutely critical and we see it in the same way.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of people that do it first.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a huge mistake

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_00]: without really understanding how it's going to be supported,

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_00]: what the structure is around it, and that if the leadership is behind it

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and supporting it.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So true.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you got a if you got a team that's

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that's looking for a true commitment and willing to do the work,

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Weinberg and the team at Jerry Weinberg and Associates

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: is highly recommended.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You're so right. Thank you.