Sales and Cigars | Zack Bower | A Contributors Continuous Improvement Journey | Episode 166

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, Walter Crosby from Healey Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars. Today's episode is with my buddy, Zach Bowers.

[00:00:07] Zach is one of the sales reps for Membrain. He's the guy I work with to talk to companies about Membrain and all the value that it provides.

[00:00:20] I don't do this a lot. I don't have a lot of conversations with salespeople and I'm thinking that this might be something I need to do.

[00:00:27] Because we talk about, you know, how is Sales person who's performing their idea of, you know, continuous improvement?

[00:00:36] And what that means to them, and you'll hear from Zach in his own words, you know, how he looks at that. You know, we talk a little bit about Cigars, of course.

[00:00:45] But we also get into a new product that's being launched through Membrain. We'll touch on that and why it's important and how it's going to be helpful to everybody.

[00:00:54] So go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail, strap in for another fun episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:01:15] So Zach, welcome to Sales and Cigars. I appreciate you taking some time out of your prospecting data to come chat with us.

[00:01:30] Walter, I appreciate you having me on looking forward to chatting with you a bit.

[00:01:35] Been a long time listener of the show first time guest. So it's pretty exciting.

[00:01:42] It's like that old sports talk radio, a long time listener first time caller.

[00:01:48] Yeah, exactly.

[00:01:50] Although I haven't listened to sports radio in like a decade, did they still do that?

[00:01:55] I don't know. I've always been a talk radio guy myself, but that's a common thing there, right?

[00:02:00] How are you doing? No, just get to the question. All right. Let's keep things moving.

[00:02:05] Yeah, because everybody knows you like the guy. Otherwise, you wouldn't be calling.

[00:02:09] If you don't like the guy, that'll become apparent very quickly. Yeah.

[00:02:13] Because when they start calling your names.

[00:02:16] Well, get into our relationship because we've known each other for a while.

[00:02:20] Different different points in your career and with Membrain and Membrain is one of our partners.

[00:02:26] But let's talk a little bit about.

[00:02:29] Well, let's start with the book. I always think that gives the audience a peek into your brain.

[00:02:35] Is there a book that you read a lot or you recommend to others?

[00:02:41] Yeah, you know, I've had a number of books over the years that have had an impact on me from a business in sales perspective.

[00:02:51] But I think the one that I always find myself going back to and definitely recommending to people is fanatical prospecting by Jet Blunt.

[00:03:01] And the reason for that is after reading that book, I saw an immediate shift in my mindset when it comes to outbound.

[00:03:12] And really doing the things at the top of the funnel that drive the opportunities later on.

[00:03:20] Definitely the one that I recommend.

[00:03:22] It was a mindset shift about the being consistent because it consists.

[00:03:27] He's one of the things he talks about in that book.

[00:03:31] But he spends a lot of time helping people realize that.

[00:03:38] It's okay to be prospecting. We should be prospecting. We must be prospecting.

[00:03:43] And if you don't do anything else consistently, that will help you be.

[00:03:49] Be a better salesperson.

[00:03:54] Then, then, you know, even just just being consistent with that's always going to keep things top of the funnel full.

[00:04:01] Absolutely. I mean, I mean, prospecting is the lifeblood of sales at the end of the day, right?

[00:04:06] Because you've always got to have something to backfill every time you want to deal. You've got to find that next.

[00:04:12] A bit of business right to keep the engine running.

[00:04:16] But I think one of the key reasons it was impactful for me personally was that was right before I moved into doing.

[00:04:24] You know, the fractional SDR work that I did for a couple of years.

[00:04:30] And so again, just that the mindset like you said is really the key.

[00:04:34] And it's not necessarily from a tactical perspective, like there's definitely things that that Jeff talks about in that book that don't really resonate with my personal approach and my style.

[00:04:46] But the resounding message there is the consistency in doing the things that aren't necessarily the most fun.

[00:04:54] And figuring out what works for you and just doing that, you know, at scale again and again and again until you just, you know, you make it a habit.

[00:05:03] And that's the key to being successful there.

[00:05:06] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a.

[00:05:09] And going back and that's one of those books that you can, you know, if you tag the book or you put a sticky note in there.

[00:05:17] And you know, you bookmark it or you, you just go back to that section to get your juice back up or to remind you of the thing that you resonated with the first time.

[00:05:29] That's awesome.

[00:05:30] And that's a, he sold a lot of copies of it, but the thing is is that most people that buy a book don't read a book.

[00:05:40] If you were to finish it, even fewer apply it.

[00:05:46] And just a tiny percentage of people actually go back and really use it as a guide to improve their performance.

[00:06:01] I want to talk about this, the new thing coming out with membrane. But let's give people a little background.

[00:06:10] You mean you've been in sales for a while.

[00:06:13] You've always been, you know, the guy that will pound the phone, but like how did start?

[00:06:20] You trip over something and end up a salesperson stood in the wrong line. How did it work?

[00:06:26] Yeah, sort of. So I guess growing up, I never envisioned myself to become a salesperson, right? That was never even on the radar.

[00:06:35] But years ago, I had aspirations to go work for Harley Davidson at the corporate level.

[00:06:43] And so to open the door to that potential, I took a job washing motorcycles at dealership.

[00:06:52] And long story short, that transition into me becoming a sales rep on the floor at the dealership ended up doing really well there.

[00:07:03] And then made a transition into the B2B space in another area of power sports and did that for a few years as well.

[00:07:13] It was just kind of a, it was a natural progression for me to go from selling B2C in the power sports space to B2B in the power sports space.

[00:07:24] And that's kind of transitioned into a number of different things over the last few years.

[00:07:30] But that's really where I got my start was selling the parts. Do you have a passion for motorcycles, back then?

[00:07:36] I did, yeah. And I think it's still there. It's just not at the forefront because life changes, right? But still something I enjoy.

[00:07:47] Marriage children have a tendency to refocus our energies.

[00:07:53] Most of us. So there's a concept that you know, if you may have heard of it, it's not mine.

[00:08:03] Timothy, that was formula. And I always think about this when I'm working with salespeople and coaching. But it's this idea that performance equals someone's potential minus interference.

[00:08:18] And I you know, I look at it as I see potential in especially with salespeople.

[00:08:25] I see things that they don't see. Especially ones that have been in a space for a while who, you know, are doing well.

[00:08:36] But they don't have that continuous improvement mindset. So that's part of their interference or they don't have confidence or whatever the their particular situation is.

[00:08:50] Is that something you somebody's because you've, you've got professionals working with you over the years and coaches and things that you read books.

[00:09:00] I mean, I think you have that continuous improvement mindset.

[00:09:05] So I'm curious is to a guy that's a contributor that's out there on the regular like what is the for, for you or whatever you noticed that could be the interference to stop in you from being, you know, the reach your potential.

[00:09:26] Yeah, such a powerful question. So I think about you know myself in my early 20s when I was just getting started as a salesperson versus where I'm at now.

[00:09:37] And it's like the motivation for me he shifted.

[00:09:41] You know 180 degrees really because early on it was very much, you know, and got to be the best very ego driven like I probably wasn't honestly the most customer centric like in my thought process.

[00:09:53] And that sort of thing and as I've gotten older, the thing that keeps me, I guess, like striving for the right mindset and like in that, that idea of continuous improvement is really understanding that one on not the best to like there's always something to learn no matter the situation.

[00:10:16] And it's really to me about kind of uncovering those blind spots, you know, and that happens, you know, naturally like reviewing a call that I was on and picking up like, you know things or areas that I could have done better asked a question better or it comes out in conversations like you and I have, you know offline where we're just talking about the dynamics of a sales conversation.

[00:10:41] I'm not sure if that is really the answer that you're looking for to the question, but I think that's kind of where I'm living right now is like how can I like hone the hone the spear a little bit more right and just in just fine tune things.

[00:10:57] I don't know.

[00:10:59] I think battle.

[00:11:01] Yeah we all have we all have things that we want to get better at.

[00:11:05] Well, I take that back not everybody does and there are some people they're just happy doing what they're doing it.

[00:11:11] And they don't want to go into the uncomfortable space of growth.

[00:11:15] And you know, I think that if we go through that, you know that that that time period it takes to grow and be uncomfortable with what we're trying being uncomfortable with wow this is really

[00:11:31] not good at it, but if I keep doing it, I'll get better right so we get in our own way as sales people.

[00:11:41] I think on a regular basis, but the difference is if you have a mindset of I want to get better.

[00:11:50] I need to get better right, I must get better then you will look for those opportunities whether you're debriefing yourself after a call.

[00:12:03] Or if you're debriefing it with a manager or coach or anybody else right you're you're you have that desire and there's there's a lot of sales people who don't want to enter that uncomfortable zone.

[00:12:19] And they just you know stick with stay where they are and you know if you're not growing, you're you're not you're dying in a certain sense.

[00:12:31] You're not challenging yourself and you lose that that potential and you stop to stop believing it so I think you answered the question used a couple of words that I hear a lot from folks who are trying to get better.

[00:12:45] You know the blind spot and when I you know like you mentioned being reflection, I have like a reflective time about listening to what you said or thinking about what you said.

[00:12:57] I can't tell you how many times I left a meeting back when we used to get in a car and go to a meeting and then get out of the meeting and go to your car and sit in the parking lot and think, shit.

[00:13:08] I didn't go deep enough around the budget. I didn't go deep enough around why this guy was going to make a change.

[00:13:18] And those are the moments where it sucks sometimes and sometimes you can't fix it but it's okay if you learn from it.

[00:13:29] And I think that's part of what you what I'm hearing from you.

[00:13:33] Have you ever if you ever been on a team, not the team you're on now but ever been on a team where there's salespeople who discount a mediocre.

[00:13:46] I'm going to do the basics.

[00:13:48] I'm going to get by I'm going to get close to my number that'll be good enough.

[00:13:53] And is that you ever experienced that?

[00:13:58] Yeah, absolutely and I mean I'm sure there's times where I've fallen into that mindset too right.

[00:14:06] And I think back on times like that, you know how much potential did I leave on the table right because I guess that's the other thing too.

[00:14:17] Like now I'm not really concerned about what like other people are doing.

[00:14:22] I'm trying to figure out how you know I can make the most impact and like do the next right thing right.

[00:14:32] But yeah, I mean it and I think that's also morale thing to write if you've got a team of people that are okay just being stagnant and not growing like that's not an area where I want to be anyway because.

[00:14:46] How do you think that affects like.

[00:14:51] If you're a performer and you're trying to be a performer right.

[00:14:55] How does that mediocrity land with with the folks that are trying to get better what is it what is it due to morale what is it due to your motivation.

[00:15:09] I think it really depends on the personality right the mix of personalities on a team.

[00:15:17] For somebody who's inherently a top performer.

[00:15:20] I think in a lot of cases they're going to do what they need to do anyway regardless of what you know somebody in the middle of the pack or the bottom of the field is doing.

[00:15:31] But I think the biggest risk it poses is for that that kind of average right because it lowers your average if you have more people that are not performing well.

[00:15:40] And I think that's broadly where you you have the biggest pitfall with mediocrity is when you've got a lot of people that are just mutually lowering the bar you've got a couple outliers, you know maybe leading the pack but.

[00:15:55] I don't know that's what I see is the biggest risk there yeah I see that happening in cases and if you're a performer you're always going to strut.

[00:16:06] There'll be those days when you need something to keep you going right because we all have those days and when you look around it's like you know they're tolerating that crap so.

[00:16:17] Maybe if I just take the afternoon and don't spend my you know our prospecting it's not going to be into the world when that's to me that's the danger right because we're constantly fighting ourselves and we need to create that discipline as salespeople to consistently prospect as job would say.

[00:16:35] So I see it as like those those performers are always going to try to be better but it becomes an annoyance it becomes an effect on the team's numbers and look at the team especially if there's multiple teams in an organization and you're kind of competing for even if there's no money involved.

[00:16:57] You're competing for the status in the ego and you know maybe the trip to the beach or whatever right or the little silly little trophy you get but I think it's something that leaders need to be conscious of and rooting the people out or putting them in a different seat where they're better prepared.

[00:17:17] Yeah, I think it's worth noting to like the way the landscape has changed a bit over the last three or four years with more remote workers.

[00:17:29] I think that that's even more important because you feed off of a lot of the energy whether it's present or perceived and I can definitely fall into that too.

[00:17:42] Like feeding off the energy is a big thing and using that as kind of an external motivator I guess to keep pushing that the needle and moving forward.

[00:17:54] That's a really really strong point because you just brought back a memory where I was I was at a company and I was I was battling to be the top salesperson right there's two of us that were it was going to be one of us right in the person who got second was going to be the first loser.

[00:18:11] And that's just how we looked at it right and I know that's not popular these days but that's how we looked at it.

[00:18:18] And we you know we would it was a rivalry but at the same time and this guy had five years on me he had more experience and he was really generous with his time with his advice as to hey I know you're working with that with that group of people.

[00:18:40] And then on that project you know one of the things that you should look out for is this right and then he told me a story about right he didn't have to do that.

[00:18:50] So to me that was the teen player he was a leader and frankly I never got past him until he left.

[00:19:00] I was always nipping at his heel right I was always like couple hundred grand below him at the end of the year one I'd win a couple of months and then right you know he pulls something out and it was fun.

[00:19:14] It kept the it kept it interesting it drove our behaviors we helped each other it wasn't a zero some game because he had a territory I had a territory they were clearly defined his wins weren't going to you know.

[00:19:29] You know I wasn't can lose because he was winning that was the environment that we created are manager didn't create that the rest of the team sucked to ask and they weren't you know really part of those things but.

[00:19:44] You know when you have a room of sales people and you know the you're gonna have a sales meeting and the sales manager is you know go and making copies are doing something right and all the all the sales people are in the room and there's a lot of back and forth talking shit right you know challenge each other all good nature having fun and it's loud.

[00:20:04] That's when you know you got something where everybody's pulling the wagon in the same direction there's always going to be people that lag behind and that's fine but if they're putting forth the effort right that's noticed.

[00:20:20] I just went off on a tangent but I think that that speaks to when you have those when you when you have that that vibe in the room and you have that competitive juices flowing and you realize it's not a zero some game and you're you're just trying to be the best that you can be.

[00:20:43] And you know we would go out for a drink and have lunch at the end of the year when he won the contest and it was like you made me better is what you know what he would say to me and.

[00:20:55] I don't know if that's true but you know I pushed you because you knew somebody was behind you but it was fun and the owner the owner of the company benefited pretty well because you know we drove up.

[00:21:08] To of us had 75% of the revenue and he just like seeing that click up but I bet that's fantastic there's there's a certain level of camaraderie that that creates to just being in that environment when it's when it's friendly but competitive.

[00:21:26] It's at the old adage you know iron sharpens iron and that's true.

[00:21:31] I do think that's one of the dynamics you miss out on being more of a remote environment versus an office setting.

[00:21:40] No I agree and it's all you have is numbers and it's hard to get that through a zoom right and that's why it's important to get together on a regular basis and you know go you know because some of those conversations took place at the bar right after a team dinner.

[00:22:01] And you know or as a side bar you know when you're when you're.

[00:22:07] You know just going through the day.

[00:22:10] You know having that mindset of of.

[00:22:14] You know wanting to get better and continuous improvement is something that we look for when I'm when I'm hiring a person right if they can't answer some questions that help me understand if they're continuously trying to get better with their skills and trying to get better with their.

[00:22:31] It's really not that hard to like go by a book.

[00:22:37] To go have a conversation that there's health out there and it can be had at a very inexpensive way if you make that investment in yourself.

[00:22:48] So let's talk a little bit about membrane.

[00:22:52] How long have you been with membrane now?

[00:22:55] Just over a year now.

[00:22:56] Yeah, I thought it was when you're anniversary this month.

[00:23:01] Awesome.

[00:23:03] Congratulations.

[00:23:05] So you're you know there's lots to talk about with membrane but like let's the we're recording this before it's really been launched but there's a module that you've experienced in being coached and managed around this module so can you share the name of the brain?

[00:23:26] If that's available, can you share the idea behind it?

[00:23:32] And then we're just going to talk about the power of it.

[00:23:35] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:37] So as it sits right now, the name will be membrane elevate and that's really just tie tied back to our core belief that we're helping to elevate the sales profession.

[00:23:49] And the way that we're focused on doing that is through a module that that allows for a wrap and their coach or their leader to really see pretty much real time what's happening in in their day to day.

[00:24:09] Right, so tracking those metrics, looking at pipeline.

[00:24:14] But it goes well beyond what you might experience in like a traditional kind of one to one meeting.

[00:24:22] Because a lot of times those lack structure at least that's always been my experience over the years like sometimes you know some leaders are better at it than others.

[00:24:32] But it can feel a little bit you know, not random but lacking consistency right in terms of the way we're looking at and evaluating our progress.

[00:24:46] So I mean we can get into it a little bit more because you're very familiar with it too.

[00:24:52] But you raise a really good point, you know from managers and coaches and whether that's internal in a corporate setting or you know people that do what I do.

[00:25:03] If you don't have a cadence that helps the salesperson understand what's going to happen.

[00:25:11] And that isn't adhered to it's confusing.

[00:25:17] And when there's confusion, there's there's lack of adoption, there's lack of energy, there's and people aren't prepared.

[00:25:27] And you know I have a cadence that I work with when I work with a salesperson we do certain things based on the week of the month.

[00:25:37] You know beginning at the beginning of the month towards the end of the month and you know they vary.

[00:25:45] You know when we do a pipeline review, you know and I open up membrane and look at you know their pipeline pipeline and I'm showing it to them they're like oh yeah this is out of date.

[00:25:57] And I will say because I'm very nurturing and very warm and fuzzy is like is this meeting a big surprise to you?

[00:26:07] Because this is supposed to be right for this meeting if it's not right any other day of the month it's supposed to be right because what are we talking about today your pipeline.

[00:26:18] I mean so it's sometimes it's it's harsh because it's if it happens on the regular but you know somebody slips up and say hey you know I didn't have a chance I close that big deal right the other day and they're reminding me they hit the numbers but you know I didn't have a chance to go in and and and I'm sorry.

[00:26:37] So let me let me start there right and then we get into a good conversation about it but it's it's when there's that apathy and even when there's that structure to it so so the the the membrane elevate which is way better than the other name that was in place and I've said that to everybody that would listen to me so I'm not.

[00:27:05] I'm not saying something new but if you're the way I the way I understand it what I've seen and you correct me if I'm wrong and fill in the gaps for me but it's it's a one spot that the manager and coach can go look at as well as the contributors well as the individual can go look where there's your pipeline is there the metrics that you're going to do.

[00:27:35] So I think that we're being we're measuring are there if you're an objective management group partner your dashboard is there to help the manager be able to see the things that remind us about the mindset challenges and skills skill gaps.

[00:27:53] The notes can be there like what did we talk about last time what was the to do is to make sure we're right and we can move these things around in a way that works for the team and it's not static.

[00:28:06] So I'm how am I doing so far yeah I mean we talked earlier about kind of highlighting the discomfort and embracing the discomfort and to me that's kind of that that's what this does in a nutshell and I give it puts it so front and center it's in your.

[00:28:23] I'm going to have a little bit of a space and maybe this sounds a little bit intense but but to me like I open that up and I'm like oh man like there's there's something I can focus on there's something I can improve like immediately that is going to have.

[00:28:38] Some level of impact on on my role here right whether it's progressing a deal forward whether it's increasing my number of activities that I need to do little things like that but.

[00:28:51] The optics that you need to focus on that day that week and it's right here in front of you is it uncomfortable sometime sure that's okay if you take action but you don't have to go searching around you know exactly what you should be focusing on.

[00:29:07] Sure and great observation I think that the biggest takeaway for me is in a lot of organizations those things don't happen until a sales rep is on a pit right a performance improvement plan.

[00:29:20] Into me if you have a system like this in place where you can see those things over time make those micro or macro adjustments to what's happening.

[00:29:30] You can avoid those stressful conversations altogether because your head of it it's it's there it's on the table your coach knows what's going on your sales leader knows what's going on the rep is aware of it and it just doesn't allow room for things to be a shock to the rep at the end of the day.

[00:29:47] And if you're talking about creating forecasts that are accurate and creating a culture of of you know wanting to get better improve that's a great place to start because it gives you all the tools that you need.

[00:30:01] You know to build that foundation and then you know begin really elevating your abilities as a coach as a leader as a rep.

[00:30:12] And I haven't seen anything else like that out there that does it to that level.

[00:30:17] I have an either and membrane and Paul's been really really active with partners to get feedback.

[00:30:26] We're all I think we're all excited about this opportunity.

[00:30:33] I learned something the other day that even if they're not a membrane user at the moment that this will still work as a standalone tool and that that's really powerful right for a variety of reasons but it brings this coaching idea.

[00:30:55] And this having everything right in front of you so that there's no it's it's so there's no surprises like you said and you know what I what I've seen is you talk to somebody you don't put somebody on a pip without talking about it right so there's like 60 days at least in my mind is I'm going to spend 60 to 90 days saying right what we're trying to do.

[00:31:24] What we're trying to do is get your performance levels up and these are the three areas we're going to focus on and if we don't get there.

[00:31:33] Here's what's going to happen but I don't think we're going to get there if you put in this effort right and I will you know I'll say to them if you you know if you're willing to do the work i'm willing to do whatever I need to do to help you but I can't want it more than you.

[00:31:51] So using membrane elevate there's absolutely no surprise you're on a pip right because it's there even if even if the manager doesn't have that program to talk about things in advance.

[00:32:07] It's no different than when somebody gets terminated like they're surprised like really you haven't hit a number in six months your activity levels are way down we've talked about it once a week for the last you know.

[00:32:20] 120 weeks or less last three three months.

[00:32:25] How are you surprised.

[00:32:28] So that's a really good point plus the tools there are giving you where you need to focus it's giving you access to the notes that you need and you don't have to go looking around for.

[00:32:40] So you know a piece of paper that you wrote something down on or journal that you have and i've got.

[00:32:47] I've got three journals sitting over here that I separate like this is one topic this is the other topic but it's still a pain in the ass.

[00:32:57] But I like to write in you know that helps me think about what i'm doing but this is like one little container where we have all the info and i'm really excited that.

[00:33:09] This is going to be available and we're recording towards the end of February i think this is going to be launched in March of 24 yeah my my off base will probably drop this.

[00:33:23] I might be able to move some things around and drop this it towards the end of March but early April.

[00:33:29] You know we'll get this this out there so if somebody.

[00:33:35] Somebody can call me if they're interested in this and I can help that and then Zach and I will.

[00:33:41] We'll work with you to get you.

[00:33:46] The understanding if it's a good fit for your needs but if you call Zach and say hey I heard you on the podcast say this.

[00:33:56] That's important right because we're just trying to get the word out so what's the best way to get a hold of Zach.

[00:34:06] Private the easiest way is either through through linkedin or email at membrane.

[00:34:14] Zach that's your exact power at membrane calm which we'll have all that in the show notes for people you don't have to stop your car and write that down.

[00:34:24] So I think we I think we covered some stuff that I don't normally cover in in the podcast really to help sales people think a little different about their role and that you know there's plenty of help out there.

[00:34:40] Membrane is a great tool it helps leaders it helps get a forecast right it helps business owners it helps sales manager sales leaders.

[00:34:48] And it really helps one of the things membrane does is help sales people if they record something once and they put it in the right spot.

[00:35:00] They never have to write a freaking report right it's all there and somebody can go access us it shows up in so many different ways to gather information.

[00:35:13] Is there is there some piece of membrane that you really that you experienced over the last year that you really like you know this is something it's going to help a salesperson.

[00:35:24] Yeah I think one of the most powerful things that we help with is through the win lost dashboards that are built in and that's really kind of taking elements of those notes, you know in aspects of a deal and putting them in a way

[00:35:41] or showing them in a way that helps you one narrow down your your ICP right your ideal client profile and then figure out early on how you can qualify or disqualify that deal based on factors that you know are going to either you know create massive success on the on the backside of that or really just be a real block and make things more difficult.

[00:36:06] And I think it's worth noting and giving credit where to do is to to Nate to this who really you know showed me and highlighted how that that can be super impactful in those conversations but I would say that's that's one of the biggest ones for me.

[00:36:24] Yeah you're talking about the win loss analytics that you can dive.

[00:36:29] You can dive so many different ways so so deep into that but it will have a huge impact on a salesperson's effectiveness and and a company's ability to grow revenue because we stop wasting time yeah which is really what effectiveness is about so great point shout out to Nate.

[00:36:54] He's a he's a he's a friend he's a trusted advisor of me and helix and I know he works with you and and you know he doesn't never fall short to try and add value that's for sure.

[00:37:14] So we're just making it Nate's little head bigger as we go.

[00:37:19] So the last question is that past your present relationship with cigars yeah.

[00:37:29] It's not something I talk about or lead with a lot I guess like I'm close to people but.

[00:37:37] Yes cigars have always been there kind of in the background like growing up one of my uncles when he would come up to visit that was always a thing like you would do with you know other family members that go out on the back that Kavastogi and enjoy it and to me like cigars have always been I don't know if it's just like an nostalgia thing right or longing for you know some.

[00:38:03] I don't know if it's a attainable ideal I don't know that they've always had like a cool factor to me right so my first experience with that was was really the gas station variety of cigars and I don't I don't mean like the bottom of the barrel stuff but but really he would always bring.

[00:38:23] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I think I know there's a lot of ideas right or grenadiers depending on how you're gonna do it but where you live yeah but so funny because you get what a five or six pack of those things they're like they're probably under 10 box I don't know what they are nowadays but.

[00:38:35] Well they used to be under two but yeah yeah that but you get them they be in solfay but they're not like properly humidified right and they're like half.

[00:38:46] So I think it's like a good thing to do with the cigarettes and the back of the gas station yeah yeah yeah so that was my first experience right just like that really dry awful like terrible short.

[00:38:58] Yeah I mean it good in a pinch I guess like if you're on the golf course or whatever you don't really care too much but yeah never forget that kind of first experience and then later on that transition into.

[00:39:14] Like that a kuba kuba I think was my very first like real cigar which to a lot of purists would be you know a mortal sin starting with something that's yeah I wasn't going to say anything but go ahead but.

[00:39:30] You got to start someplace yeah absolutely but but that really kind of opened the door to you know learning more about them and not something I do frequently but I do enjoy it sometimes.

[00:39:42] It's a it's a good story you know I asked that question pretty much every episode and what for guys it has to do there's always some element of nostalgia.

[00:39:54] There's always some element of the uncle the dad the grandfather that you know they admired they just like the time being around all of those folks in those you know

[00:40:10] conversations involved there were lessons learned there were jokes whatever it was and to me that's one of the things that you know kind of it's a reason to get together it's it brings people together and I've said this a hundred times.

[00:40:30] That you can be sitting anywhere in the country anywhere on the planet really and you're you can look at the guy next to you and say what he's smoking.

[00:40:42] And then you're in a conversation and it can go wherever it goes but you have an immediate connection of the brother or sister of the leaf is what I am for a kid to ask.

[00:40:54] It's it's a great equalizer very similar to you know a cup of coffee right and those two things go really well together but that absolutely along the bourbon and rum and tequila and there's a variety of other things.

[00:41:09] I'm not going to say it out loud but I'm really excited about this product and you and I will be working through that to bring that out to the community so I'm going to thank you

[00:41:37] and I have a great rest of the week. Yeah my pleasure thanks again for having me. Hey thanks for being part of the sales and cigar community. I wanted to share that I wrote a book the seven critical mistakes CEOs make with their sales organization.

[00:41:50] The CEOs you've read it tell me I cut to the chase quickly get to the point explain exactly what they're experiencing why they're experiencing it and how to fix it so if you want a free copy go check out the link in the show notes.