Sales & Cigars | Brad Koch, Business Coach and Former Marine | Episode 199

[00:00:00] Welcome everybody, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales & Cigars. Today my guest is Brad Koch. He's got an interesting journey. He signed up for the Marine Corps at 17 with his parents' blessing, which really helped shape his life. We talk a little bit about that. We talk about coaching and creating leaders and giving people under your command, under your management,

[00:00:30] giving them the grace and the room to navigate and do their thing as long as we're all focused on taking the right hill, working to the same goal. We need to put the right guardrails in place. These are some of the things that we talk about. And then we land on a really cool story about Cigar Lounge and cigars. So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar and strap in for another exciting day.

[00:01:00] episode of Sales & Cigars. Thanks. So Brad, welcome to Sales & Cigars. I appreciate you taking a little time to jump on the program.

[00:01:24] Yeah, it's my pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity.

[00:01:26] So first off, I just want to say thank you for your service. I was this close, which could just have been a mile to joining the Marine Corps when I was going

[00:01:43] going into college to try to get that NRTC scholarship. Right. I'm not great with authority, so it probably wouldn't have worked out well for Walter, but I just have a shit ton of respect for the Marine Corps.

[00:02:01] Yeah, I appreciate it. There's millions of millions of people walking this earth that would appreciate hearing that too.

[00:02:09] You know, it's funny. That's one of the reasons why I chose the Marine Corps is because I needed to be told which way was up.

[00:02:20] My parents co-signed with me, so I was 17 when I finished off.

[00:02:28] Oh, really?

[00:02:28] Well, to be perfectly frank, I was trying to get that scholarship. So to get the scholarship, you had to score a certain score on the ACT. You needed a 27 at the time, and I had a 26.

[00:02:42] So the recruiter was like, well, just take it again. I'm like, you can do that? He goes, yeah, yeah, we can take it as many times as you want.

[00:02:48] So I took it a second time, got a 25, so I went the wrong way. And then my uncle found out that I was in the recruitment process.

[00:02:59] And my uncle had joined the Marine Corps in the late 60s, and he went to Vietnam.

[00:03:09] And he's one of the people that had an incredible effect on his life, and ultimately he took his life from some things that I don't think he could rectify,

[00:03:25] from some of the things that he saw and probably had to do. But he was extremely proud of being a Marine.

[00:03:37] Like, he just, I mean, but the dichotomy was that, like, his nephew wasn't joining.

[00:03:46] He couldn't wrap his head around where I was going. I remember he took me to dinner.

[00:03:50] He asked my mom if he could take me to dinner, told her what he was going to do.

[00:03:56] And I think I said yes, sir, three times during that dinner.

[00:04:01] And I just listened to what he said and didn't argue with him because he would have cared.

[00:04:07] Yeah.

[00:04:10] Yeah.

[00:04:11] That's unfortunate that he went ultimately down that path, but that's a whole other breed of soldier.

[00:04:20] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Well, I hate to start this off on a downer, but I think it's that whenever I see somebody in the military, I'm at the airport or at a little diner, and they're dressed, you know, for travel.

[00:04:34] And I guess I'd ask your opinion on this.

[00:04:36] I always get the waitstaff, say, I want to pick up his check or her check, and don't tell them that I did it.

[00:04:46] But just tell them that somebody appreciates their service.

[00:04:51] And I'm usually gone, right, because waitstaff can't keep their mouth shut.

[00:04:54] But is that the right thing to do from a veteran's point of view or not?

[00:05:03] Yeah, I think it is.

[00:05:05] I mean, anything you do with your heart leading the way, you know, doing what you feel is right, I think is always going to be a good decision.

[00:05:16] You know, some people might, you know, they might turn their nose up at it thinking, well, I don't need a handout, you know.

[00:05:26] But nine times out of ten, I think it's going to be a good thing, especially in today's world of how polarizing being in the military and some of the conflicts that are going around.

[00:05:39] Sure.

[00:05:41] So most of the time it's received.

[00:05:44] Yeah, I would say lead with your heart, man.

[00:05:48] If you feel like it's the right thing to do, then by God it is.

[00:05:53] Okay.

[00:05:53] I appreciate that.

[00:05:55] So let's talk a little bit about your journey, right?

[00:06:01] As I made a joke earlier before we turned on the recording, like, you know, when you were 10, you didn't think you were going to have that great beard and mustache and doing what you're doing.

[00:06:11] So talk about high level and how you got to where you are.

[00:06:15] 17, joining Marine Corps.

[00:06:17] Okay.

[00:06:19] Well, yeah.

[00:06:20] So earlier than that, I'd say I always sort of laid on the fringe.

[00:06:31] And that's to say that in high school, I wrestled.

[00:06:35] I didn't play football, but I wrestled.

[00:06:37] I felt like it was harder.

[00:06:40] Certainly the practices were harder.

[00:06:43] Definitely.

[00:06:43] When I was 16, I went to Outward Bound for a month.

[00:06:49] That's sort of where I got really connected to marching for hours upon hours in the hills on the Appalachian Trail and whatnot.

[00:07:01] And it was just I'd made some good friends and they were going in to the Corps before me.

[00:07:07] So I had eyes and ears, understood what I was getting into and just made a sweetheart deal with my parents.

[00:07:17] You know, cosign, allow me to do this and I will forever be a different type of son.

[00:07:25] So I think if they were sitting here, they would agree that I am.

[00:07:29] The path that I'm on and I've been on has been a better one because of it.

[00:07:33] But you're right.

[00:07:34] At an early age, I went in and I didn't stay in terribly long.

[00:07:40] I met my still existing wife after 35 years.

[00:07:48] And starting a family, we had four kids pretty quick.

[00:07:53] Being in the field, I just made the decision.

[00:07:56] It just wasn't the right place for me to raise a family.

[00:08:00] So I got to college, got a degree in finance.

[00:08:06] And in the 80s, late 80s, it was not a good period of time to be in finance.

[00:08:16] I don't mean to be laughing, but I was in New York in a similar field at the time.

[00:08:21] It was not.

[00:08:22] Oh, man.

[00:08:23] So here I am.

[00:08:25] I'm fixing to get married and have our first child.

[00:08:30] And my father-in-law sort of just felt like he had to do something to help his spiraling son-in-law

[00:08:39] just because I just couldn't find anything to stick.

[00:08:42] And he made a comment about printing.

[00:08:44] For him, he had been in the printing business in sales at that time for 25 years.

[00:08:51] Been good to him.

[00:08:52] He made some introductions, and I got into sales selling at the time, which was color separations,

[00:08:59] which aren't even a thing anymore.

[00:09:01] No.

[00:09:01] And so I started selling in a market I knew nothing about to people I knew nothing about.

[00:09:09] It was sort of thrown in the deep end.

[00:09:13] And that's really how my career and how my trajectory went.

[00:09:18] Everything I did had some connection to sales in it.

[00:09:23] So there's a lot of people that I talked to.

[00:09:27] And granted, this is a sales-focused podcast.

[00:09:30] But there's so many leaders that are out there that have a foundation at some point in sales.

[00:09:42] Right?

[00:09:43] I mean, they've touched maybe finance.

[00:09:45] They've touched high-level operational pieces of things.

[00:09:49] They've turned the wrench.

[00:09:52] They've dug the hole.

[00:09:54] And they've sold the hole.

[00:09:55] Right?

[00:09:56] They've done all of those things.

[00:09:58] So they seem to appreciate what goes into all of those components.

[00:10:04] And I happen to think that we all, we're all salespeople to a large extent.

[00:10:11] And it's the ones that are out there that jump in the deep end that don't know a lot about something are the ones that you either sink or swim really fast.

[00:10:21] And people can tell if you're trying to get it under control and you're trying to get better.

[00:10:29] And there's a lot of grace.

[00:10:30] I think a lot of grace given for the ones who are working towards that.

[00:10:35] Even when they have no idea what the difference is in a Pantone color and separations and full screen, all those terms.

[00:10:46] Right?

[00:10:47] I think that's what matters is somebody who's trying to get better.

[00:10:51] And ultimately, that's where you went is to try and help people get better.

[00:10:56] A hundred percent.

[00:10:57] You know, where I am today as a business coach, consultant, I ended up here because my corporate gig reached a fork in the road.

[00:11:11] And I could stay in that world and do something different after this acquisition.

[00:11:17] Or I could sign on a dotted line and, you know, live phase two of my life.

[00:11:23] So my wife and I decided to sign on the line.

[00:11:27] We moved south.

[00:11:28] We were at the time living in Madison, Wisconsin.

[00:11:33] And I had to sit and say, OK, what do I want to do?

[00:11:36] You know, what is if there's one thing that's that I could attribute any success by any measure that I had?

[00:11:45] It's a coach was involved.

[00:11:47] Either someone was coaching me or I was coaching somebody on my team and done well.

[00:11:56] I think tremendous things happen.

[00:11:59] And I really I just went deep into understanding what makes a good coach, how to help business owners, how to help people that, quite frankly, aren't ready to raise their hand and say they need help.

[00:12:15] That's that's the biggest challenge is folks that think they have it all together.

[00:12:20] Yeah, that's a you said a couple of things there that are, I think, really interesting to me and think to the to the audience is we're there.

[00:12:35] They're often looking for at least the people that I work with.

[00:12:39] They're out there looking for ways to get better.

[00:12:41] And sometimes that's using a system like EOS or sometimes that's like, you know, scaling up or some some program that forces them to look inward to try to get better and provides them with some tools to do that.

[00:12:59] So, you know, what have you what have you learned as to like what makes that coach effective?

[00:13:09] Right. That because it doesn't matter if we're coaching salespeople or business owners.

[00:13:14] Right. The principles are are are the same, I think.

[00:13:19] And then what what do we do with that coachee who?

[00:13:24] I got it figured out.

[00:13:26] You really don't need.

[00:13:27] You know, I mean, I know how I do it.

[00:13:30] I'm kind of curious as to how you.

[00:13:31] Yeah.

[00:13:32] So it's a fantastic question.

[00:13:36] You mentioned EOS.

[00:13:38] I'm a fan of EOS.

[00:13:40] Just as a side note, I'm also probably even more so a fan of something called 4DX, four disciplines of execution.

[00:13:50] Those are frameworks.

[00:13:51] You could apply them to anything, certainly within a sales organization.

[00:13:55] You could apply them.

[00:13:57] I think it's very healthy to have that kind of framework in a sales organization because there's transparency.

[00:14:05] You've got a leaderboard.

[00:14:07] You've got people know where they are in relation to the goal.

[00:14:11] Everyone understands what the goal is.

[00:14:15] But the but the big question you asked, and I think that's the one that we're always trying to answer, is how do we how do we move others?

[00:14:23] How do we get better at moving others?

[00:14:27] Sometimes to a place that they don't necessarily know or want to go.

[00:14:34] And I'm I'm thinking back probably 15 years ago.

[00:14:39] There was a guy inside of.

[00:14:41] So it was his boss.

[00:14:43] He was inside my organization.

[00:14:44] And I had the most difficult time getting him aligned with what we were doing.

[00:14:52] And it became a real drag on on the department, on the team.

[00:14:58] And it was a question that I ran back and forth with my coach.

[00:15:02] I even purposefully found a different coach because I wasn't getting anywhere.

[00:15:06] I was looking for a specific answer.

[00:15:10] And all I can say is that for me, I have found that if I put the other person.

[00:15:20] More directly in charge of where they're going, I'm going to say it terribly, but someone who would say it really well is Jocko Willenick, Extreme Ownership.

[00:15:34] Right.

[00:15:34] So he tells a million stories and they're much better than the one I'm stumbling through.

[00:15:38] But in essence, you know, you you elevate that person.

[00:15:42] All right.

[00:15:43] Well, here's the goal.

[00:15:44] You understand it.

[00:15:45] How would you get it?

[00:15:46] OK, that's cool.

[00:15:49] And what about this?

[00:15:50] And instead of directives.

[00:15:54] You know, it's more of a walk with process.

[00:16:00] The the the real art form is you still have to have bumpers up because if you don't,

[00:16:07] that employee that I'm thinking about 15 years ago would have done some really terrible things.

[00:16:14] Yeah.

[00:16:15] Just would have damaged, slowed down things a lot more than he already was.

[00:16:19] So I think that's the the real thing is how does a sales leader bring someone to a destination?

[00:16:30] And when you get there, have that person feel like they were the one rowing the boat.

[00:16:35] They were the one that pointed out the coordinates that they were going to.

[00:16:40] So that leader is a leader that can do anything.

[00:16:46] Yeah, that's a that's a good a really good way of explaining it.

[00:16:53] I've read Jaco's book, Stream Ownership and the Dichotomy of Leadership.

[00:16:59] And the way that he's always done that is how you described it.

[00:17:06] You know, it's sort of a collaboration, a walk with them.

[00:17:08] But in in his world, when he was doing that and he's not doing it with regular folk, but he was doing it with highly disciplined.

[00:17:19] And.

[00:17:21] Seal, you know.

[00:17:25] Highly, highly, highly disciplined and trained seals who understood that the goal is to take that building.

[00:17:35] And if you want to if you want to try something different, I'm open to listening to it.

[00:17:40] But we have to get the whole team there and the whole team has to come back.

[00:17:43] Right.

[00:17:45] So I I think that's an effective way of doing it.

[00:17:48] But as when we're dealing with civilians, you know, I think that there's a few more bumpers that we do have to put in there.

[00:17:57] So I call them guardrails.

[00:17:59] Right.

[00:18:00] Where you you have you have license to operate as long as we're communicating about how we're doing it.

[00:18:09] And we're not damaging the culture of the sales team or because I see the sales team as a culture.

[00:18:17] And in the company culture.

[00:18:19] So the sales team is sort of this little culture within the culture.

[00:18:22] Right.

[00:18:22] All of the same core values and and requirements.

[00:18:27] But in the sales team, we get to be a little rougher.

[00:18:31] I want a sales team who's highly competitive, but sort of like that Italian family.

[00:18:38] Right.

[00:18:38] We could talk shit about each other all day long, give each other grief, but nobody else can come into the to the team and talk shit about us.

[00:18:47] Right.

[00:18:47] We're going to all stay up and deal with that.

[00:18:49] So I want that kind of competitiveness.

[00:18:52] But I think drawing those expectations and drawing those guardrails are really, really important in a business world, especially with salespeople.

[00:19:01] We're not just in that expectation.

[00:19:04] We're going to get lost.

[00:19:06] No, no.

[00:19:06] And just, you know, generally speaking, salespeople have a little different DNA in them.

[00:19:15] Successful ones, ones that have been through and through and have been, you know, door slammed and whatnot.

[00:19:25] The phrase that I would use is Jocko says commander's intent, but that still, you know, applies.

[00:19:33] So if you're a sales manager or VP of sales, you want to make sure your intent is clear.

[00:19:41] You have a way that you would see the plan coming through.

[00:19:44] Hey, you're going to go out and you're going to call on everyone that owns a power washing business.

[00:19:50] And here's the pain point.

[00:19:52] And this is how you're going to try and position our insurance or whatever it is.

[00:20:00] But the guy or the gal that's going to go there and actually do it is going to carry the sword further and faster and longer if in some way it's their idea.

[00:20:12] That's what, at the end of the day, I think that's a key element.

[00:20:17] Young leaders especially.

[00:20:19] I think the older leaders, the more gray we get, the more we realize that's really the way to do it.

[00:20:25] But as a new leader, I spend a lot of time with new leaders and you have to break away from this.

[00:20:33] Well, I was managed like this.

[00:20:36] So therefore, I'm going to manage like this.

[00:20:39] Sure.

[00:20:40] Yeah.

[00:20:41] My parents did this, so I'm going to do that.

[00:20:44] Yes.

[00:20:44] I'm going to expect a slightly different result from that.

[00:20:48] Yeah.

[00:20:49] That's, we have the gray hair because we earned it.

[00:20:52] We have the gray hair because we tried all of those things and we realize we want to take that building.

[00:20:58] We want to take that hill.

[00:20:59] Right.

[00:21:00] And we need to do it as a group and make everybody comfortable and safe.

[00:21:07] I explain it this way.

[00:21:09] I'd be interested in your take on it.

[00:21:12] Here's our process.

[00:21:13] Here's the information we need to gather to be able to win a deal and to give the manufacturing operations team a chance to win.

[00:21:22] But here's the notes.

[00:21:24] And I think of it as sheet music.

[00:21:26] Here's the sheet music.

[00:21:27] I need you to play all of the notes.

[00:21:30] Don't care what instrument you use to play the note.

[00:21:35] And I don't care which order you play them in for the most part.

[00:21:40] Go be you.

[00:21:41] Put this into your vernacular and who you are and make it yours.

[00:21:47] But we really need you to play these notes.

[00:21:51] And, you know, if you think about jazz, Miles Davis's trumpet sounded wildly different than Dizzy Gillespie's.

[00:22:00] Amen.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:02] That's a that's a great analogy.

[00:22:04] I really like that.

[00:22:05] Well, I appreciate that.

[00:22:07] It's if you don't have the music background, it doesn't always land.

[00:22:12] But the idea is that you get to be you.

[00:22:17] And, you know, I had a conversation recently with a person where, you know, like I don't really need this.

[00:22:25] Sales process and I really don't need, you know, to change how I do discovery.

[00:22:29] Like, OK, you're winning.

[00:22:31] You're exceeding your numbers every month and you're hitting your your milestones.

[00:22:36] It's all working out perfectly.

[00:22:38] And, you know, for the most part, like, OK, for the most part means what?

[00:22:43] Right.

[00:22:44] And if you're doing everything's working, then don't change.

[00:22:47] Just keep doing what you're doing.

[00:22:49] But is there is there an opportunity to go faster?

[00:22:53] Is there an opportunity to have a little bit more fun?

[00:22:56] Is there opportunity to do it in a shorter cycle with greater margins?

[00:23:01] Maybe there's a little bit that it can that they can learn.

[00:23:04] But if they don't want to, it's hard to get them to see it.

[00:23:13] Especially if they're that person who's I just go out and quote the jobs and then I worry about it later.

[00:23:23] The ones that are ineffective salespeople, those get those need to get rooted out of the system.

[00:23:28] But.

[00:23:31] But.

[00:23:32] Usually if somebody is coachable and somebody wants to perform, like we're talking about that 20 percent salespeople, they're going to be like, well, what are you doing?

[00:23:44] How can I apply that?

[00:23:45] Right.

[00:23:46] And then now you're in and you get to talk to them in a way that's going to be meaningful to them.

[00:23:52] Because as a as a leader, it's my responsibility to meet them where they are.

[00:23:57] Right.

[00:23:58] And use the language that's going to motivate them.

[00:24:01] Not me.

[00:24:03] Right.

[00:24:04] That's a trip, right?

[00:24:06] Yeah.

[00:24:06] I mean, that's higher level thinking at the end of the day.

[00:24:12] I think there's a distinction.

[00:24:14] And I say I think because I haven't I haven't lived in a transactional environment.

[00:24:21] So I should be clear that 95 percent of the selling that I've been involved with or coaching is relationship, longer sales cycles.

[00:24:34] Reorders.

[00:24:34] Reorders.

[00:24:35] Yeah.

[00:24:36] And it's it's not transactional.

[00:24:38] So understanding that I I don't have that knowledge.

[00:24:42] I'm going to say this.

[00:24:45] As a sales leader, you know, there's organizations that have very sophisticated siloed processes.

[00:24:54] You've got a business development rep.

[00:24:56] You've got an SDR.

[00:24:58] You've got an account manager.

[00:25:00] You've got these people that have an individual role, a handoff, another role, another handoff.

[00:25:06] And, you know, the Dell's got the deal.

[00:25:09] And each one of those people have to have a little different strong point in.

[00:25:17] And if you're at 30,000 feet looking down, I couldn't speak to the operation that is I'll call it boiler room.

[00:25:25] Right.

[00:25:25] That's a terrible.

[00:25:26] But if you remember the movie that Wall Street just grind.

[00:25:31] Right.

[00:25:31] Sell, sell, sell, sell.

[00:25:34] The value in the story you were talking about with the using the sheet music is a sales reps value to an organization is more than just the just the numbers that they turn over.

[00:25:49] And I'd even go so far to say in these longer sales cycles, relationship selling that it's a bigger percentage than most people realize that that having somebody in sales successful in lockstep.

[00:26:08] With the organization is so much more powerful because you're going to get we did this.

[00:26:14] We I mean, I failed miserably doing this, recruiting somebody from a different industry because they were a great hunter.

[00:26:21] All right.

[00:26:22] They just you know, they went out and they lived on whatever they killed.

[00:26:26] But I brought them into an organization that wasn't set up like that.

[00:26:32] And it that type of selling did not do anything but disrupt our our internal customers and, of course, the end customers.

[00:26:42] So that's a that's a long winded way of saying there's other value that that sales rep has.

[00:26:49] And you may not we may not be able to move them directly towards a thing.

[00:26:55] But if we can show them how alignment in the organization goes beyond just their quarterly numbers,

[00:27:04] I've seen people rise to that occasion.

[00:27:07] And by by that whole analogy, all time, all rising tides raise all boats.

[00:27:13] Right.

[00:27:13] They're going to get better.

[00:27:14] Yeah.

[00:27:15] And that's really, really important to salespeople who are motivated intrinsically because I see there's like three motivation styles.

[00:27:25] Right.

[00:27:27] Extrinsic, which is sort of me, the baby boomer.

[00:27:31] Right.

[00:27:31] Pay me.

[00:27:32] Make sure the check is clear.

[00:27:34] It would be nice every once in a while if you say, hey, nice job.

[00:27:38] But I don't need a ping pong table.

[00:27:40] I don't need you to take me out and get me, you know, bring me donuts in the morning.

[00:27:44] Right.

[00:27:44] Just right.

[00:27:45] Be out of my way.

[00:27:47] Intrinsically motivated.

[00:27:48] Care about all the things that you just described.

[00:27:50] Right.

[00:27:50] They want they want to learn something.

[00:27:52] They want to be part of a team.

[00:27:53] They want to feel like they're contributing.

[00:27:55] Right.

[00:27:56] They want to have some sort of path.

[00:27:58] So we need to talk about, you know, why why they need to do something from a perspective of, you know,

[00:28:04] they love to win where I'm somebody who hates to lose.

[00:28:08] Right.

[00:28:09] So I have my life as a sales manager or sales leader has to match.

[00:28:14] Otherwise, it doesn't land.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:16] And then you have the people that are altruistically motivated and you don't want them in a sales role.

[00:28:21] You want them in a customer service, you know, act like doing what they need to do to support a customer.

[00:28:30] Because a salesperson, they're going to give away the store.

[00:28:33] So, I mean, I think there's a there's a lot.

[00:28:38] There's a lot to coaching.

[00:28:40] There's a lot to understanding what the real objective is.

[00:28:45] And, you know, I have frameworks that I use and I have a lot of questions and I find a parallel.

[00:28:52] This is sort of like I kind of wanted to land in this area.

[00:28:56] I see coaching very similar to selling.

[00:29:01] Instead of me grabbing a buyer by the lapels and pulling them through my process, I have to ask them questions to understand what's motivating them if they have a problem.

[00:29:16] And then I have to guide them through my process where they feel like they're learning along the way and they feel like there's we're collaborating on this.

[00:29:28] And it's not it's not pitchy.

[00:29:31] It's not the boiler room.

[00:29:33] It's all right.

[00:29:34] It's the opposite of that.

[00:29:36] And especially in today's market.

[00:29:38] Right.

[00:29:40] It's you know, you don't need the you don't need the salesperson to understand the basics.

[00:29:47] You need the salesperson to understand whether or not this is really a good fit.

[00:29:52] And to really look under the hood of the offering.

[00:29:57] Transactional stuff.

[00:29:59] Amazon.

[00:30:00] Right.

[00:30:03] And I don't know.

[00:30:06] I've never sold anything like that either.

[00:30:10] You know, I don't want to compete with Amazon.

[00:30:12] That's.

[00:30:13] Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's a whole nother.

[00:30:16] That's that's a race to the bottom.

[00:30:18] And there's a lot of companies that have found out that Amazon in that case is going to win every time.

[00:30:25] Yeah, that's.

[00:30:29] Oh, I just suffered from from age.

[00:30:32] I had something really great to say.

[00:30:34] And it just flew, man.

[00:30:37] What are those senior moments?

[00:30:39] Yeah, I think I think that's qualifies it for when I when my wife and I go to the movies and the young kid says,

[00:30:48] you get the senior discount just by just by looking.

[00:30:53] OK, it does.

[00:30:56] You know, but then I I just go with it.

[00:31:00] All right.

[00:31:01] It's 10 bucks cheaper.

[00:31:02] All right.

[00:31:02] I'll take it.

[00:31:03] Yeah.

[00:31:04] It makes you mad.

[00:31:06] But it's kind of like, OK, I'm going to save a couple of dollars here.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:12] But it's when they it's when they make an assumption because my question is when they say you apply, you know, you're going to get the senior discount.

[00:31:20] Like what's what's the age on the senior discount?

[00:31:24] There's always an age.

[00:31:25] And and they're like, you know, 65.

[00:31:28] And I'm like, you know, then I I might use colorful language.

[00:31:32] Yeah.

[00:31:35] That's like then I don't qualify.

[00:31:37] Right.

[00:31:38] If you want to give it to me, that's fine.

[00:31:40] But I don't qualify.

[00:31:41] Right.

[00:31:42] And, you know, thank you for thinking I have more gray hair than I actually do.

[00:31:48] Yeah.

[00:31:49] Yeah.

[00:31:49] It's it's just another stage in getting older that you just become you become OK with whatever, whatever it is.

[00:32:02] You know, if someone thinks I read a quote from somebody, I believe this is from Keanu Reeves, but the picture on the Internet had Keanu.

[00:32:13] And it said I'm at the stage in life where if people if someone comes up to me and says one plus one is five, I just say, yeah, you're right.

[00:32:23] And that's awesome.

[00:32:25] Like, you know, what's what's to gain from arguing one plus one is not five.

[00:32:32] There's a I don't know.

[00:32:34] It's a stage of life thing, I guess.

[00:32:36] It is.

[00:32:37] And it's sort of like arguing about, you know, politics or religion.

[00:32:41] And, you know, am I am I going to change somebody's mind?

[00:32:45] No.

[00:32:45] Probably not.

[00:32:46] Do I care to?

[00:32:47] Not really.

[00:32:49] Do I have better things to do than have that conversation and that argument?

[00:32:54] Yeah.

[00:32:55] Right.

[00:32:56] You know, even when you're you're at a at a bar or restaurant and somebody bumps into you and they're that younger alpha guy that I don't know, I used to think like that.

[00:33:07] Right.

[00:33:07] And they want to.

[00:33:09] They want to make an issue out of it.

[00:33:11] It's like, dude, I just I don't have the energy right now.

[00:33:15] Why not?

[00:33:16] You just relax and I'm going to go over there.

[00:33:20] Right.

[00:33:21] It's you know, I just I don't want to deal with it anymore.

[00:33:24] I don't have the patience for it.

[00:33:26] But it's not they put hands on you.

[00:33:29] That's a different story.

[00:33:29] But yeah.

[00:33:31] And to tie that back to sales.

[00:33:33] Right.

[00:33:33] I mean, some would even say that sales is a young guy's game or a young girl's game because.

[00:33:42] They're they're OK to bow up in that situation.

[00:33:45] In fact, they probably have to bow up because if they're early in their career, they're fighting for food.

[00:33:51] And it's there's a time and place for everything.

[00:33:56] And I'm not suggesting that everyone suggests, you know, your prospect says no or your prospect says this, that it's just like, all right.

[00:34:04] Well, Brad said I'm not arguing.

[00:34:08] Quite the opposite.

[00:34:09] You know, there are strategic ways.

[00:34:12] Right.

[00:34:12] That's the way it starts.

[00:34:13] Like when you get that first no, it's like, OK, I understand.

[00:34:17] Before I go, let me ask you a question and then you're back in.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:24] I've enjoyed I've enjoyed the conversation.

[00:34:26] So you said about you've shared a bunch of information and people are going to want to reach out.

[00:34:34] I'm going to have all of your your notes, your locations where to find you in the show notes.

[00:34:41] But is there anything special that they should be they should look out for that you want to talk about?

[00:34:46] Yeah, you'll have the link in there.

[00:34:48] I wrote a book last year.

[00:34:51] It's called Profitable Pathways.

[00:34:54] It's more of a guide than a book.

[00:34:55] I'm giving myself way too much credit.

[00:34:57] But I'm going to include a link that you can share with your listeners.

[00:35:04] It's there's there's 12 fundamental fundamentals in there.

[00:35:08] It's designed for folks that are business owners or leaders.

[00:35:14] And even if you're not yet, even if that's what you're aspiring to be, I think you'll learn a few things.

[00:35:19] And so we'll make sure that we include that.

[00:35:21] All right.

[00:35:22] So we'll have the link in the in the notes for people to go check that out.

[00:35:25] Last question is always, Brad.

[00:35:29] Any relationship with cigars, past or present?

[00:35:32] Past.

[00:35:33] Past.

[00:35:33] I went deep, like buying humidor and my wife calling me out.

[00:35:41] But, you know, it turned in from a nice golf related thing enjoying to, you know, I was tracking all the latest trends and had a buddy that was going to Cuba back in the day.

[00:35:58] And he was smuggling.

[00:36:00] I won't say his name, but, you know, it was real big.

[00:36:04] But then I had some health challenges and then it was.

[00:36:09] No, I can't.

[00:36:11] So the love hate is I used to love it.

[00:36:13] Now I hate how much I love the smell of it.

[00:36:17] Interesting.

[00:36:18] Interesting.

[00:36:20] The our wives can sometimes point things out.

[00:36:25] So she told me it was one summer.

[00:36:28] One of my buddies, like, you know, we should play golf.

[00:36:30] I haven't ever played golf before.

[00:36:32] I don't know.

[00:36:35] So he somehow he shot like a 77 to 79.

[00:36:39] Right.

[00:36:40] So he's pretty good.

[00:36:42] And, you know, I was shooting 120 on the front.

[00:36:46] So he was pretty patient.

[00:36:48] But I started her words.

[00:36:50] Two bad habits that summer.

[00:36:53] Golf and cigars.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:55] Now, I don't play golf much anymore.

[00:36:59] Matter of fact, I just put my clubs way up high in a shelf in the garage.

[00:37:04] But I have a podcast called Sales and Cigars.

[00:37:07] I have my own cigar lounge.

[00:37:08] I have more humidors than my wife realizes I have.

[00:37:14] So I know what you're talking about.

[00:37:18] And there are some things that I think we have to be careful about with our health.

[00:37:24] But if I get a whiff of a cigar lounge as I'm walking down the street, I'm just immediately drawn.

[00:37:33] Literally, my mouth will water.

[00:37:36] Like if you were sitting next to me as you are right there, my mouth would be watering.

[00:37:43] Well, you're a couple hundred miles away.

[00:37:46] Actually, a couple thousand miles away.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:48] Whereabouts are you sitting again?

[00:37:49] I'm outside of Detroit.

[00:37:52] And you're outside of what?

[00:37:53] Birmingham, Alabama?

[00:37:54] I am.

[00:37:55] Yeah.

[00:37:56] Yeah.

[00:37:57] So that's about a two-hour flight for me.

[00:38:02] I do that a couple times a year.

[00:38:05] Yeah.

[00:38:06] Well, I appreciate you taking some time here.

[00:38:11] This was fun.

[00:38:12] Awesome.

[00:38:13] And, you know, if I get down to Birmingham, I'll...

[00:38:18] I'd love it.

[00:38:18] Yeah.

[00:38:19] We probably won't go have a cigar, but maybe we can have a coffee.

[00:38:22] No, but we can.

[00:38:23] Like I can totally go in there.

[00:38:26] And I think I've got the discipline.

[00:38:28] But there is a great whiskey and cigar bar, I don't know, six miles from my house.

[00:38:35] Right.

[00:38:36] Funny story.

[00:38:37] My son-in-law, who just moved down, his name is Kyle Bryant.

[00:38:42] But he looks just like Kyle Busch, the NASCAR guy.

[00:38:46] Okay.

[00:38:47] And I take him in there and get him a drink.

[00:38:50] And all of a sudden, people start going, hey, Kyle, Kyle.

[00:38:54] And he's thinking...

[00:38:55] He's from Boston.

[00:38:56] He's thinking, what the hell's going on here?

[00:38:59] And I go, I think you're Kyle Busch, man.

[00:39:02] Like you're NASCAR royalty down here.

[00:39:06] That's funny.

[00:39:07] As soon as he opened his mouth, you could tell he wasn't from around here.

[00:39:11] So...

[00:39:12] Yeah, he could enunciate.

[00:39:15] Yeah, he could enunciate.

[00:39:16] But, you know, his R's were a little different and the A's were a little different.

[00:39:20] Yeah, yeah, I got to go out to the car and get that thing in the car.

[00:39:27] Yeah, that's a...

[00:39:28] I think even people in Alabama can grasp that they know where that accent is from because it's pretty...

[00:39:37] I know people in Boston don't have accents, right?

[00:39:39] It's everybody else.

[00:39:40] But at least that's what I've been told multiple times.

[00:39:44] But it is distinct.

[00:39:46] Oh, that's a funny story.

[00:39:49] But he's not leveraging that because that would piss him off.

[00:39:52] Somebody buys a drink and it's like, yeah, I'm not going to push.

[00:39:55] Thank you.

[00:39:55] No.

[00:39:56] No.

[00:39:57] He...

[00:39:58] If I was, if that was me, if I was recognized as someone that I'm not, I would go deep.

[00:40:05] See where this thread can bring us.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:09] It could get you in trouble.

[00:40:11] That's really...

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:13] On that note, my friend, I appreciate it.

[00:40:16] It's been a pleasure.

[00:40:18] Awesome.