Sales & Cigars | Phillip Swan: Insights for CEOs and Entrepreneurs | Episode 195

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales & Cigars.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode, my guest is Phillip Swan and he has an AI solutions company that I think you want to pay attention to.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He makes some great points about being responsible with AI and what that means and what we need to think about now to be able to use artificial intelligence responsibly in the future.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And if we're using a large language model like ChatCPT, there's a few things that we need to really think about that are going to have a positive effect on what we're trying to do with our business or they won't.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It can really mess things up. So we get into talking about that.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar, strap in for another educational Sales & Cigars episode. Thanks.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So Phillip, I appreciate you taking some time to jump on the podcast. Welcome.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Thank you. Thank you very much, Walter. It's an absolute honor and pleasure to be talking with you and your audience.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I appreciate that. So I think there's a bunch for us to talk about. I think we have some sort of a like-minded approach.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We sort of play in a similar space. But you've got some cool things going on with AI, which we'll get to.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But let's talk a little bit about, let's start with, is there a book that you really gift often or you read a lot or reread?

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Is there something there that stands out for you?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- There are several that I read, but the one that really stands up for me is Crucial Conversations.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it's this book here. And it's an incredible book for teams and for clients to really understand, you know, have very frank, candid conversations without fear of repercussions.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's always about the outcome and driving a successful outcome from that conversation and meeting.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because the reason I love this book so much is that when we deal in a world of change management, and how change management occurs, it starts with the conversation. So that conversation is absolutely key.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's interesting that, you know, people always say they hate change.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But everything changes on a regular basis. I mean, we're constantly changing as humans.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- The days change, we change our shirt, but it goes deeper than that.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And if we don't talk about when we get uncomfortable, then that book really helps people realize that we can talk about things that are a little bit uncomfortable.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And then once we've done that, once you're twice, it becomes much more comfortable to be uncomfortable because it solves problems.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Is that one of the takeaways that you got?

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's one of the key takeaways.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And one thing to note, to achieve critical mass in change, only 7%, the number 7%, 7% of an organization needs to be on board for that change to happen.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And there was a book that I've read many, many, many years ago.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's about 80 pages.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's absolutely perfect.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's called Who Moved My Cheese?

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Or Who Moved The Cheese?

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it's wrapping people's head around that change will always happen.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we had an expression at Microsoft, and this is an internal Microsoft thing, that the only constant is change.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that is a true thing.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you either impact change by being forward thinking and actually leading that change, or you're a follower in that change.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we like to be active participants and not let things happen.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And as entrepreneurs, right, I've run small businesses virtually my whole life, is being that forward thinking.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So it's like I play rugby as a youth, and the big thing with rugby is that it's not where the ball's at, it's where the ball needs to be.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that's, and that is, I've brought this into every business that I've helped run and manage, is a small business.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- As an entrepreneur, you've got to have a team around you that makes you look and appear bigger than you actually are.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And working with services like Army or Marine Corps is, it's all about that strategy and really understanding about where you need to be and coalescing this.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you have this force multiplication effect that you are bigger than you actually are.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And this is really an important part for any small business, you know, to succeed is don't be a follower, be a leader, be really focused in on driving that change that, and getting that change adapted and adopted to really be accepted by, you know, by your customers and by your partners and by the alliances.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And most importantly, and most importantly, by your internal team.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah, that all of those stakeholders need to be aligned.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's what I wrote a book earlier this year.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And that's one of the big things is getting that alignment between the vision, and then the everybody along on the team, all of your affiliates, all of your partners, but like, the person on the shipping dock needs to understand how they can impact your business.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And when they do, it's amazing how things get taken care of before they become a problem.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's amazing that it's only like I didn't know that stat 7% to get that critical mass going.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's great insight.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So let's talk a little bit about I want to get into the AI piece.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But like, can we get a little bit about your entrepreneurial background?

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Absolutely.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- My entrepreneurial background.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I know that you don't want to go back to grade school, but actually that's where it started for me.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it literally started with me going to my mother.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So I come from Scotland originally, and we're not cheap, we're thrifty, right?

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So I never got a day of pocket allowance in my life.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And at eight years old, I went to my mom and said, I want a road bike.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- She said, well, how are you going to pay for it?

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I figured out, well, I'm going to get a paper route, all right?

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I did my first distribution strategy at nine where I had four of my mates to actually go and expand my paper routes.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I took a cut off of the top.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Then at 14, I sold that business funnily enough.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I bought a bunch of inventory for baby clothes and selling baby clothes at an open air flea market in Scotland.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And if anybody knows the weather in Scotland, it is not pretty.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so, and by the age of 20, by the time I graduated university, I had 20 of those booths and 14 different markets.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And at the age of 16, I was going to China to cut out the middleman.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So I was buying clothes direct from Hong Kong at the age of 16.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So it started with what future am I solving for?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And the future I was solving for back there is to have enough money to buy a house.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I bought my first house for cash at the age of 21 years old.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it was, and it started, and it started from there.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So the value of entrepreneurship is like, I see a problem, a customer pain point.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And really, you know, I say, well, like, this is what we want to solve for.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This is the future we're solving for.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I literally work backwards and map everything out that needs to do to go to, you know, to go to market to actually solve that customer's problem.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that's how I got started.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I just love it.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I'm not the youngest chicken in the, you know, in the coop, but I've got as much energy as a 20 year old, right?

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because I'm not working because I'm doing what I love, right?

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's not a job for me.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I just love it.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I love solving customer problems.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Just love it.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's, I had a guest on the other day and we were talking about elite salespeople.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And there's an elite salesperson is very much like an entrepreneur.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We're driven.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We're looking to solve problems.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We're working hard, but we're working smart.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We're, we're, and we're, we're trying to fill those gaps.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- As you say, like you see, you see an opportunity and you, you're going to try to figure out a way there from work, maybe working backwards.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But there's the other thing that he noted, which you touched on as well, is that we're not going to like you wanted a bike, you're eight years old.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Like, but you figured out you got to go earn it.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And so you figured out a way to go earn it.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So you, the obstacle is, is not, you know, we're not taking no for an answer.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We're going to go out and figure out what we got to do.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I had a paper route as a kid, but I wasn't smart enough to go get my friends to help me.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I did it all myself.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's, I wish I had thought about that.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It would have been a lot easier.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's, that's awesome.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So you caught the bug.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And, and you, and you found a way to do what you really love to do.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And, and, and hence we don't really work.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- There's days that are tougher than others.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But we're doing what we really enjoy doing.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So it's, it's not a, it's not a punch in a clock.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- There's a few things to unpack from what you just said, right?

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So when you talk about an elite salesperson, the one thing that I noticed a common trend for elite salespeople is that they are the same.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They're the CEO of their own franchise for your business.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And they act that way, right?

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So like you said, offset my weaknesses with strengths.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So I wrap myself with people around with people who are going to make us get that force multiplication effect because you can do it all yourself.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And as the owner of a small business, you are the chief salesperson.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- But guess what?

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You shouldn't be the only salesperson because you, in order to scale that business and grow your business, you have to have other people being able to do what you can sell what you're doing to scale.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So that's one aspect of, of what we're saying.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- But the other big thing, you know, the other big thing for me is that I'm driving, you know, for questioning and just listening, right?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- One thing that salespeople do badly is that they'll go into the meeting and start presenting, presenting, presenting.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I absolutely hate it.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And the thing is we've got these two things stuck at the edge of our, our, our head called ears that we need to listen.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And one of the earliest strategies I had, you brought up consultative selling.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I grew up in consultative selling where I became a resource to my clients.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And many of these clients are still clients to this day because I'm a trusted advisor to them that I can, you know, I can be adding value to them so that whatever product or service that I'm selling, I can typically go to them and get them, you know, and they will listen to me.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They may not always buy it, but they will listen to me.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Sure.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And give me input.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it's those trusted relationships.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And what people forget, especially in this digital age, you still have to form a relationship with your customers because people buy with their hearts.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They think with their heads, but buy with the heart.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So they have to like you.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They have to like your company, but they also have to like you and trust you.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that's a very important skill that we are, seem to be losing in this age of, you know, always having the SDRs and everybody else.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that's just banging you for an appointment.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it's just, it's just noise.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's a lot of noise out there.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I don't know if you're seeing the same thing, Waltz, but I see a lot of noise out there.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- As a salesperson who learned those lessons that you just shared, you know, you have to build rapport and then you build a relationship and then you're building trust.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And we don't do that by talking about features and benefits.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We don't do that talking about us.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We do that by asking questions and getting to understand that person's challenges, their issues, their desires.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And then if there's alignment, then we can persuade and provide options.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I remember walking into an office of a customer, they were engineers, electrical engineers.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I would have an appointment with one engineer and I always scheduled for a 30 minute appointment.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I'd always schedule like two hours of free time after that.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- As soon as I walked in, the engineers would pop their head up, right?

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Crosby, before you leave, I need to see you.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah, before you leave, come see me.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And they didn't always have something to buy or they didn't need to buy something.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They were like, hey, I have this problem.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Do you understand the answer?

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I would always give them an honest straight answer.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yes, here's the answer.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Or you know what?

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I don't know.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Give me 24 hours and you know, I'll get the answer or I know somebody that can.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And they appreciated the candor.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And it's all the same.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's all about listening and being clear, not waiting to talk, but actually listening.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yes.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I use the analogy of the sideline sports reporter.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I don't know if you watch much American football, but they have like two minutes with a coach.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And they're like, the producer's in their ear, you got these three questions to ask.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They don't listen to the answer.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They're just waiting to talk.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And unfortunately, as you see as well, salespeople want to wait.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They just want to wait until they can speak and they're not really listening.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And that's where the gold is.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And letting them talk and listening and then asking another question.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's funny how you bring that up because I grew up with spin selling.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I don't know if you know the old Huthwaite way it's been selling, right?

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Phillip Swan- Sure.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you know, it's all about those, you know, and the other thing was like out of Millerheim, and these are all old school ways of doing things, but they hold true today.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They called it the golden silence, right?

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I learned this in my earliest days in sales.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's like, just shut the F up and actually just listen and don't even say anything because nobody's comfortable in that silence.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So create that silence.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we get the customer to talk.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Now I had this, it worked every time except once.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- There was actually a funny story here.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So here I am, I'm at a company, it's a voice over IP company.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I'm running global sales and marketing as a startup.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we'd just been acquired by Texas Instruments and for a really nice amount of like 1.6 billion.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so I'm meeting with Nokia in Finland and I do my golden silence thing with them.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- We went 15 minutes without saying a word.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Those guys were stubborn.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I went, oh, screw it.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I'm going to talk now.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- We literally, I was timing it.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I said, we can't go any longer without talking now.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They knew exactly what I was doing.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But you encountered a pro and that's okay.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We hung out for 10, 15 minutes.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's a pretty good run.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I find it, I listened to a salesperson's call and they struggle with 10 to 15 seconds of silence.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- The other thing that I see, and I'm curious if you see this, they ask a question and then answer the question for the prospect.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They step all over the opportunity to learn.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I mean, it's so frustrating.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Oh my goodness.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I see that.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I see that.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- We've gotten so wrapped around this hide behind your cell phone, hide behind your computer screen.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we're losing this ability to interact with each other in business and in so many ways.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You're starting to see it hurt software as a service companies, right?

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because the VCs, the venture capitalists are throwing so much money at them.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's always grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, right?

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And now the problem with when you say grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, you hire a whole bunch of people and it's like, get me 10 calls a day or 100 calls a day and you know, 10 meetings a week.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And this all these goals, which are absolutely bogus KPIs, right?

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- They're managing the wrong numbers.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Absolutely the wrong numbers to be measuring.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you know, the numbers you need to be measuring are your attention numbers.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Are your customers happy?

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Can you sell more to them?

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because guess what folks?

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's easier to sell to people, to existing customers than it is to acquire a new one.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so keep the customers you've got, scale those customers and acquire new customers while you're going along in their journey.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And when you do that, you have a solid base.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- You're going to, you can't help but grow.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Because you're grabbing share of wallet and market share.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's right.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And it's so much easier to grab market share if you're doing it by squeezing your competition and owning your customers because you're doing such a great job.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's not about throwing cheap prices at it or misleading people.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's like just go do the work.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- If you're discounting.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I understand where discounting comes in.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You've got to get the deal and got that.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- But if you're having to discount, you've got a problem.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You haven't sold volume.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And because where there's volume.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah, of course, when you get into procurement with a large enterprise, they're going to their goal to negotiate.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah, you're going to negotiate in some price.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That is a given.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- But it's all of a sudden, oh, we'll give you 50% off just to get you on board.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That is such the wrong way because you've just suddenly destroyed your margins.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you're now going what I call circling the drain.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's now only inevitable before it's going to be that low, painful, that slow, painful death and death march of, you know, trying to make profit when you're already destroyed your margins because your salespeople are discounting because they can't sell the value.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And once you start that spiral, you can't come out of it.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's just physics doesn't allow you to.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And you see it.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And you know, when you try to tell the CEO, you have to stop this.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- If they're asking you, you have the wrong people.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- You haven't trained them.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- You haven't given them the tools where you have the wrong people, right?

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yep.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- If you're discounting like when I when they asked me for a discount, I'm like, wait a minute, you want me to help coach and develop your salespeople.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- What you would?

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- How much respect would you have for me if I gave you a discount and I'm going to go teach your salespeople?

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I'm sorry.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I can't do that.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Do I have a bit of an out that some people don't have?

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So let's talk a little bit about the two letters that everybody's all excited about.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And then with that, you know, how you develop, you know, solutions and using artificial intelligence.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And, you know, you're speaking to CEOs, you're speaking to business owners who want to understand, want to do it the right way.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I think you have some insights here that might be able to help them.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Absolutely.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I mean, I want to first off and start that what people say that, you know, well, I use chat GPT.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So therefore I'm using AI.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yes, you're using generative AI, but the chances are what you're getting out is not actually good output.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What we are focused on is very simply to help CEOs and owners of businesses reimagine their business with responsible AI.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Now there's a lot to unpack with that statement.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- First of all, let's define what responsible AI means.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Responsible AI means that it's good, it's ethical, and it's safe.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So it's good for the people.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's ethical in that you're not going to get these things called hallucinations coming out of there.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What hallucinations are for this is a real issue is that these large language models like that are used by open AI, which is there's chat GPT, you know, GPT 4.0 or whatever you're using or perplexity or any of the others, you know, PI or Lama 3 from meta.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Is you they present information as if it were true.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so think of in terms of propaganda, think in terms of just giving you wrong business insights.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So just by going with well, chat GPT told me that it must be true.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You're going to run into problems before you before you even know it.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you actually have to take you so you use these tools.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And how I use these tools is I use multiple models when I have learned how to prompt right so prompting is a very real discipline.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it's very complex today.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This will change sooner than you know, I know some stuff that's going on right now.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So by the end of this year, you will start to see either the ability to simplify or abstract the complexity of prompting.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And because some of these prompts that I use now are literally pages long.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because what you have to think, how you have to think about these, these generative AI products that are out there today.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Think of them as this really smart, genius level toddler that you have that will do your exact instructions to the letter.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So give them this, if you would give a toddler those instructions, that's how you have to instruct these in your prompts.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And when you wrap your head around that, it starts to become more useful to you.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- The thing that I've learned is that I've taken some, a course from a pretty, a guy that's been using AI.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- For a long time. And the thing that struck me in the conversations is that you have to write the prompt and it has to be, it has to be really crystal clear and it could be pages long as you say.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But the real issue is that we haven't taught our, our education system isn't teaching critical thinking.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And to be able to write a really solid prompt to get the output that you're looking for, so that toddler doesn't go around creating chaos is that critical thinking.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And we just, we lack it. And we rely on this so simple thing that we're going to get in trouble.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Speaking my language, utterly speaking my language well because I, people talk about data driven decisions.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I call absolute BS on that because the data is not, well, the data may be accurate, it likely isn't right because data is dirty typically.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And especially in smaller companies and even in large companies, the data is dirty.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you have to get your data ready for AI, right?

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And that's the part, but where I was going with the GPT, that is not AI.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I've worked in artificial intelligence since 1981.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Okay, I started programming AI in a language called Lisp that is still being used today.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That goes back to, you know, AI has been around forever.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What's changed is the vast amounts of data that are available now and the compute power, the compute availability is a separate issue, but the compute power is now, is now available to handle this.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's what's changed.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's what's changed.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It is not new.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It goes back to the forties to Alan Turing, okay?

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Sure.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- In really understanding, you know, making a computer almost sentient, right?

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So where we go with AI, and this is where I was going to play, if you think AI, your strategy with AI is chat GPT or one of those tools, I will call you to press a stop on there.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Or your listeners to press a stop.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Start thinking about what future you are trying to solve for, for your business.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And then think about what superpowers in your team today exist that are going to help you get to that.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And now identify the things within those superpowers within those people in your team that you can now automate and replicate so you can free them up to do even better stuff.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So we're a reality of tomorrow and five and 10 years time will be that AI does not replace jobs.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What it does is it augments humans.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So the thing about AI is not about the LLM or large language model.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It is not about the algorithms.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's not about the data.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It is all about the human expertise.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It starts and stops with human expertise.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And when you can now unpack that and re-engineer and basically re-engineer that way, you start getting the opportunities to have a digital twin or digital twins of the superpowers within your organization.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You now have a responsible AI platform to start scaling your business.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so really start thinking about how you can do this.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- AI is a tectonic shift in the world today.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And I use that term very deliberately because there was a tectonic shift in technology with mobile, right?

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Suddenly it started off with these, you and I have got a few gray hairs in our head.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- We remember the old bricks we used to carry around because it gave us freedom, right?

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Sure.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And it gave us freedom from that card, that thing where we had a salespeople, we had to be next to a phone.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- We could now travel and be productive talking to people in cars, talking to people from different parts of the world, right?

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That was a tectonic shift in collaboration.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's what mobile institutes such global change in enabling economies from small villages in India to, you know, to, you know, to the world.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- To large corporations in the US.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It has changed people's lives and how we conduct business.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- The next one was the internet, right?

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Where the internet became really available.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Things that came out of that were like voice over IP, where I, where I led the team there.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You know, and driving through here.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Another tectonic shift is artificial intelligence because you now have to retrain yourself and your people and rethinking about how does my, what is that business that,

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That future business look like with responsibly, I, not just the AI responsibly, I, because you want to make sure you because there's all kinds of regulatory movements going on, especially in the European Union that you have to not only be aware of.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You have to adhere to.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Now you would say, well, I don't do business in Europe.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Why should I care?

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Well, you care now because they are setting the standards.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you want to be a head of the game on working, conforming to those standards with your business.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So that when it does come around, your customers trust you because you're already working with AI and an ethical, you know, and safe manner.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That makes sense.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It does.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I think that there's a couple of things there that you said that, um, that we should pay attention to.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's right.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- One's a little scary, that we're relying on people to be better thinkers, and we're relying on people to be responsible and not take the shortcut, which is what a lot of folks are doing.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I think that's part of your mission is to really get people to take a pause and think about where we're going, not just the next step, but three, four or five years down the road.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So if, if, if the audience is, is that small to mid market company, um, and, and they can reach out to you and we'll talk about how we, how, how they get to you.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- But is there one or two things that they should be really thinking about right now or something that they could be doing that would help them?

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They have to get ready.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- The big thing that happened is they have to get ready.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So the, the, the first thing is get an accurate lay of the land with respect to AI.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So it's, it's, it's really, it's really about, um, you know, getting our reality check, right?

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Get involved and get our, an AI reality check, right?

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And get it from experts and, um, that, that people who actually know not what people think, but people who actually know because you can be guided this.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This is the wild west right now.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you want to be working with people who are, um, who are bringing order from that chaos because it is chaotic right now.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And we're that, you know, that's one of the things that we do is we bring order out of chaos.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Now I want to go back to something that you were saying earlier with, you know, we believe in critical thinking.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So we absolutely believe the same thing because we use data to inform decisions.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So we applied logical analysis and critical thinking to what the data is telling you.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you've got to do this.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You cannot get lazy on this because you will get into trouble if you don't apply that logical analysis and critical thinking to this.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So critical, you know, say get a lay of the land way and it's changing daily.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So get a lay of the land, then get out and you're doing assessment.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Are is your business ready for AI, which means a data, a data analysis, you know, an assessment was your data ready for it.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because if your data is not clean, don't do it because until your data is clean, because you run into trouble.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Big, big trouble.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- What would make you think that's a big problem?

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- What would make data clean?

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- What would make data dirty?

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- What would be an example?

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Oh, it could be that dirtiest like you're in CRM.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You haven't got accurate information about your customer, right?

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you're not having accurate industry data or inventory data or supply chain management data, any number of things, right?

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you're not having accurate accuracy.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And most importantly, your customer data, right?

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- In terms of customer success, customer support, however you want to put it, having all of that.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- If that stuff is dirty, you're going to get bad answers.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Thanks for being part of another fun episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Let me ask you a question.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Are you tired of struggling to hire sales talent that's going to move the needle for your company?

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Well, maybe you should attend my Sales Hiring Secrets program and discover the number one mistake that business owners are making with hiring sales talent in their organization.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- The details are in the show notes.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Click on the page.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It gives you all the details.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It gives you everything you need to know to solve the problem of sales talent on your team.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Thanks.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I look at a lot of CRMs from a sales perspective and we, and I'm sure you have, we know that that data is dirty.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's filthy.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because salespeople are lazy.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I'm just not, and I'm not saying they're late.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Salespeople are not lazy.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They're lazy on administrative tasks.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Why?

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because that's not their superpower.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And this has been one of my veins of sales management my whole life, because I've been doing this.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because the one thing that salespeople are really poor at typically is managing their time.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And so they're spending all this time in administrative tasks on the weekend or whatever, and it's just driving them crazy.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They know it's a price of doing their job right, but why not eliminate that pain from, stop them having to do reports, and actually have them do their job and make sure that that job is being documented properly in CRM.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And you have these note takers now, whether it's Otter, Fathom, Fireflies, TL.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's all there.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They're all there.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- We can copy and paste.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's having a CRM.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- You don't even need to copy and paste now, because it's all integrated, whether it's HubSpot or Salesforce or whatever CRM you're doing.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- They're already integrated, so you don't even need to do anything that can be all automated.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- So you're eliminating that pain from a salesperson's job, and you as the CEO are getting the information you want because it's accurate and it's coming from live conversations.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah, I mean, we could talk for hours about pipeline data and customer data and that what's required is irrelevant.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- It's a waste of time.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I mean, there's been many times in my career where somebody said, you know, you need to do a daily report and I'm like, you're going to be disappointed because that's not ever going to happen.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Because I mean, it's I put in what's relevant in the CRM so I don't forget.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So I have a reference to go back.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- I put in what's necessary, no more, no less.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And I make sure information is accurate.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- So that's one of the big things with them being ready.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And it's just looking at, you know, their capacity, their manufacturing, their logistics, their sales, their finance, all of those things that data that they have is being, is being, is clean.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And that they're going to, they have a shot at getting good information out of it to start to use AI in a, in a, in a productive and ethical manner, responsible manner.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Correct.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Is there anything else as we, as we sort of wind down here that.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Ask yourself the question.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Ask yourself the question.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What future are you solving for?

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And shut yourself in a room with no noise and no anything else and actually start drawing it out.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And be honest with yourself.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- What future are you solving for?

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And, and just start working back.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Okay, this is my dream.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This is my vision.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This is my objective.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- This is my goal and start block dry grammar out.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And then just within each block, start thinking about the customer and the customer could be an internal customer or an external customer or a partner.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And how do I make that experience?

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Because it gets down to customer experience.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Seamless so that their journey for buying my products.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- And services are easy where they just go, but you can't give them an opportunity to say no.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- It's only yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's me.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's me.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- That's me.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- Done.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- I'm going with this company.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Yeah.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- And, and the more complex your, your, your, your, your sale, right?

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's me.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- The more, your, your, your, your career about that pathway for the buyer is no obstructions.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- Right?

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That's right.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip Swan- That we make it simple because that's what people are looking for.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Phillip Swan- they have to believe it's an apex buyer, right?

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to think about who's the apex buyer in this,

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: who's going to sign on the dotted line.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's to that person that you've ultimately got to give everybody to that

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: person saying yes.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to really understand who that person is and what they care about,

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: what they're trying to get to, what are they trying to get away from?

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it's, that's a big question.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And it, it, it's something that you,

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you do need to lock yourself into a room maybe with a team and,

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and really sort that because if you duck clear about who that person is and

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: what it is you want to do for them, you're, you're just going to be, you know,

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00]: rambling around without.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you lock yourself in a room,

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: don't lock yourself with just internal people being in your facilitators like us

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that would help, you know, really drive the discussion, you know,

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: where we co-innovate together. Right.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the real thing that we do is like we co-innovate with our clients and,

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, really, really driving this down.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it, it all comes,

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: it all comes down to understanding the customer problem and,

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and solving it for them in a way that is useful for them and being trustworthy and

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: being direct with customers.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So being customer centric doesn't mean to say you say yes to your customers,

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: by the way,

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: it also means you are direct enough to be able to say no and give them a reason

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_02]: why, and you know,

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: some why it's a bad decision to go down that way from,

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: with real life examples.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's what's,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: what I think is important.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I do,

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I do a facilitation around messaging for,

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: for like your marketing says this and your salespeople say that there's no

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: congruency. Right.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So when,

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: when,

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: when you get the right key players in the room,

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: when you ask them,

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: what is,

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: what are your customers think?

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You get the blank stare and then you can tell they start to make things up.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So we haven't asked them.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't,

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't have that data,

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and when you really dig into it,

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a pause and they have to go get some information to,

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to really understand because they,

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: they believe certain things as a,

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: as a business owner,

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00]: as a CEO,

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: as a leadership team,

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but they,

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: but they really don't know.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And they it's,

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and even if,

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: even if they're on track,

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_00]: there's still have,

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to unpack it and be able to turn it around sometimes.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So your point about bringing somebody in like yourself to facilitate those

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: conversations,

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: to really think about a strategy for the next five,

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 years as to where you're going and what tools need to be.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to change it.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't have a target,

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't know why you're changing and you don't know what you're changing.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: When I was doing,

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: when I was working for an agency within our federal system,

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the thing that we always said was like,

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: we put plan a plan B plan C plan D and we train like crazy for the outcomes for

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_02]: plan A plan B plan C plan D.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And none of them will work when you're actually in the field,

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: but guess what?

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We're agile and are thinking that we know how everybody's going to react.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So we adapt in real time to the situation so that we can still achieve the

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: outcome based on dynamic events going on around you and in business.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And in a startup,

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like going to war.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You never come out the same.

[00:40:50] Yeah.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to,

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to be able to the critical thing.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to be able to pivot and you can't do any of that.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know where you're really going,

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: right?

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're,

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're just driving across the United States and there's a road closure,

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: there's something going on and you know,

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to Los Angeles and you're,

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you're in Pittsburgh,

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what the goal is.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can,

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: you can adjust,

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: take the most efficient and effective way to get there.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Business is the thing.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So you've offered a lot of value here.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You've offered a lot of things that people should really be thinking about.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would bet that some of your people as a CEO,

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: business owner,

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the people are using chat CPT to,

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: they might be using the free version.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They might be using the paid version,

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but some of those people are using it to do their job now.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And is that helping you or hurting you?

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: As a business owner.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So what's the best way,

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're going to have this in the show notes,

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but what's the best way for them to reach Phillip?

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So there are two ways to reach me.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: One is on LinkedIn and my LinkedIn profile is phillip,

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: P-H-I-L-L-I-P dash S-W-A-M.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the bird.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And on there,

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: first thing you'll see will be a newsletter called the go to market edge.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I would love for you to subscribe to that,

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but email me.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I will respond to all email.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: My email is phillip,

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: P-H-I-L-L-I-P at the AI solution group.ai.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's spelled T-H-E-A-I-S-L-O-U-T-I-O-N-G-R-O-U-P dot AI.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's a mouthful,

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's who we are.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's,

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and check out our website because you'll see the power that we bring to the

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: problem.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's,

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just nothing short of phenomenal what we do for our clients.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I really would encourage folks,

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: no matter your size to start thinking about this and,

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: you know,

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: sign up for that,

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that on that list.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to be able to get insights and it's going to keep poking you

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: on a consistent basis.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what you should be thinking about.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what you should be thinking about.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's,

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that's one of the things that Phillip will do is keep,

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_00]: keep you thinking about like what,

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: what you should be worried about,

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: not what you,

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: what's what you're worried about today,

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but what's around the corner and down the street.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_00]: he's going to help you with that.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So,

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: the last question,

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: pastor present,

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: any relationship with cigars?

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Phillip?

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh,

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you know,

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I've,

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I've,

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had a love,

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: hate relationship with cigars.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And,

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: my love is when I've had a little too much to drink,

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I love having a cigar.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I hate myself the next morning for having done it because I want to

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: shave my tongue.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Um,

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: so my favorite,

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: my favorite experience of smoking cigar was when,

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: when I was in Australia one time with my team,

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_02]: we have,

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_02]: we're having,

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: client meetings in Northern Australia.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We,

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: we brought everybody in from Asia to themselves lovely resort.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And,

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_02]: we had this,

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: cigar night and we,

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_02]: we ended up,

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: doing some serious damage to,

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: a number of,

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: wonderful Cuban cigars,

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: hand rolled cigars that night.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I,

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_02]: what I,

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: what I remember is that in that hotel,

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: there was another business meeting going on.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a very famous person who just went over there and,

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: um,

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and his name was Kerry Packer and he comes over and says,

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to smoke cigars with you guys.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So we actually go with one of the top business people in the world at the

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: time,

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: just smoking,

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_02]: we're just hanging out drinking scotch and,

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: uh,

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and smoking cigars.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Regrets it to the next morning,

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but I had a great time.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Well,

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's,

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it's,

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it's one of those things that,

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_00]: there are some people that do it on a regular.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Some people do it occasionally,

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_00]: but it,

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: it draws people in.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: if,

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're inclined to a cigar,

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it,

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it creates this camaraderie,

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: some bond.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I can go anywhere,

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_00]: anywhere in the world.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And,

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and I look for a cigar lounge.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I look for a place where people gather and it doesn't matter.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: When you walk in,

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you're sort of this brother of the leaf and you have that one thing in common and

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you're in,

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: right?

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So you know,

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Churchill was the big cigar smoker,

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And do you know what his trick to,

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_02]: because his trick was like having the ash go virtually the whole length of the cigar.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And what he did was he would put a very long toothpick inside the cigar that would allow him to achieve that.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you know that or not.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He,

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_00]: he was a bit of a,

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: a showman,

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: if you will.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And,

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and he was willing to do some things that,

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that,

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that,

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: gave,

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_00]: created an illusion,

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_00]: let's just say,

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but he was also a hard worker.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_00]: so I,

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I,

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I had heard that before.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_00]: but he did smoke some pretty decent cigars.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He,

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: he did.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And he spent some money on cigars and champagne.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That was one of his,

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_00]: when he reached,

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: he reached a point where there was some economic turmoil in his,

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: his life.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And his wife told him that they could only have champagne and cake if they,

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_00]: if they had guests over,

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_00]: if he couldn't do it every day.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So he was always looking for a reason for somebody to come over to the,

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to the estate so he could have champagne and cake with his guests.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So,

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_00]: uh,

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: good story.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Um,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: folks,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: if,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: if you,

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: if you have some concerns and some,

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and some information or you're looking for information about AI and how to be

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: responsible with it,

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_00]: contact folks.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate your time and your insights.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me on.