Sales & Cigars | Sales Training Without Commitment is a Waste with Derek Baer | Episode 192

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome to Sales and Cigars, I'm your host Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode is Chock Full of Value for your business owners, for your sales leaders, and for sales people.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about why sales training is a waste of resources when we don't have the key components in place before we do it.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: My guest Derek Baer is part of Curlin in Associates. He is a guy that's got a great work out that going back to when he was a kid.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He understands how to communicate with people, and we just have this great conversation where we're just dropping all these tips.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Derek is sharing his philosophy, he's sharing his approach, he's sharing these little tips for CEOs, and for VP's of sales and for sales people.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar, strap in for another impactful episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So Derek, welcome to Sales and Cigars, I appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much for having me, and I am grateful to be here.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this when we had the conversation when we were in Miami.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been kind of thinking about trying to reach out to you, and it's like, yeah, I'm going to see him.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad I'm glad you agreed to do this.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it. I don't look forward to it.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean as well.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start off.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I always like to ask the same question, is there a book that you gift or you reread on a regular basis?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to give you and I hope this doesn't mess anything up.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have no script, so the first book that I read the most is or that I've read the most and gifted for someone to take something from it.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And put it into application is going to be how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's just bar none for anybody that has any social anxiety and feels any sort of discomfort about what do I say?

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: How do I handle this situation?

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to dive too far into it, but it is the art of asking people about themselves, which you know when cares about anything else.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: The lower they're talking about themselves and you will be the most interesting person in the room.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And then this is really important for me to share the one that I've gifted or purchased the most is the five minute journal.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, so this is not are you familiar with us?

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a story but go ahead. I absolutely love how did you come to that?

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I had heard about it.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably 2016 in a podcast. I just heard about the gratitude journal and then I stumbled upon this and I as soon as I fill it out, I purchased a new one.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's on repeat and Amazon for me and I've without question and I have gifted that to the most people.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It is great for people going through tough times.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great for people going through good times and it sets the precedent of when you wake up.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We can get caught up in the head trash and the bullshit of everything that's negative going on around us, but when you really simplify things, there are at least three things that you can be grateful for.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: When you set an intention for the day, it gives you a guide.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And my caveat here is as important as it is to fill out in the morning.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't do the best job of this but you must fill it out in the evening.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't even imagine what happened in the day when you reflect back on it, at least three things have happened and it could be the smallest thing like having a moment and watching a bird in the forest.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And it could be something that touches you in a way that you realize this simplicity of life. There's just so much beauty to it.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: When you look at what you accomplished in the day, bigger small. You did make forward progress and I think all too often we get caught up in this big pioneer sky goal and any big pioneer sky goal is going to be taken down by little steps.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a really good way when we talk about sales to monitor your metrics of progress and the goodness that comes in every day.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's my little spiel.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. You're the first to bring that up and it's incredibly, everything you said is a hundred percent on it.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We can get ourselves into asking ourselves some bad questions.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We can get down on ourselves real quick, especially if we're trying to be a high performers and we're trying to push the envelope.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That journal forces you to stop.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you've got to really think about the little bird that you saw in the bird feeder in the path in the woods or the moment that you had with that little dog that was walking down right.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We just saw them or the squirrel that saw you like we have bird feeders all over our yard and sometimes it's the squirrel like you're not supposed to be in there dude.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Really nice supposed to be in there but it's like they made a little connection with this little animal.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's little.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a couple of these over a course of over two years and then I decided to do something because I noticed something in my in my journaling at night, especially at night.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That I would say something about my my wife something that she did.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I made this thing the day after Thanksgiving, we would go to Florida, my daughter and my wife and so I made a decision at that next day that Friday would start a new journal and it was all about her.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: The morning was like what I wanted to do for the day and then what are the three things that I really captured.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That I need to be grateful for about her changed a lot of things within the relationship and what was really cool is that the next Thanksgiving gave her the journal.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's awesome.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's not one to go to tears and she started flipping through it. She's this is all about me and like.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about us it's about you it's about the kid it's about all the things that happen, but it's like I don't tell you these things.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Enough but I cognizant of everything that you do.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a really cool thing to anybody that's listened to really think about that one or two things that your spouse does for you or your friend right that helps you get through.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Get through the day get through the week. So really powerful journey.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you noticed this because we as as complex beings were actually very simple and I don't know if you noticed this pattern, but the three things that would make my day great.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We're all really simple and it seemed to repeat itself every day like it wasn't I wasn't jumping around saying, oh, wish I would do this or that it was very consistent and.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: When we remove the glamorous or the glamour and the glitter and everything that you know we can see in the media is what should be important to us especially as people in the United States.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: My shit is so simple like for me to have a great day it is very, very simple and I don't know if you had that experience as well.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes and what was happening I started to notice when I first did when I did the first one it's like there's a lot of the same things here.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I reached out to the guys that were responsible for this because I came to this through Tim Ferriss.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He's the one who sort of recommended this at one it was.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know one of the things I read from him and I reached out to the guys who produced the journal and they're like that's normal.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You're you're having the right kind of patterns you're seeing the right kind of things because and I'm going to get like a really long email that was incredibly encouraging.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: To think about like you're looking at these these simple little things that really make you happy so why are we worried about all these other things right and I mean I got a little less than that of the out of his response but you're right just.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: The getting up and seeing a sunrise or having some solitude with a cup of coffee watching the the woods come to like I live in the woods right so watching these animals all kind of come about.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It was that was one of the things that I kept repeating like just seeing that was incredibly grateful and then I get off and I can tell you that I haven't done one in a in a couple years and that might be the thing that I need to do because I've gotten to be.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of negative about myself right that that mindset issue that one of the things that we'll probably talk about here but.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it that's a great gift for somebody because you're really given them this gift of gratitude it's awesome there and I might have I might know where my next gifted book is going so ask you for your address after this make sure you find yourself a copy.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that so let's talk a little bit about like.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: How you got to where you are when you're you're the you know top of the echelon in the sales sales world right you what we call elite.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And like talk but walk me through like how do you get there. How do you build that.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I would I think if we were to go way back and I'll speed through it.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that work ethic was instilled at a young age for my parents so I can remember.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I can remember I think the first thing that I was really selling like isn't it my own little business was I can remember in high school.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually so before that I was a cadet of golf course and I would get tips those 13 years old and that started to influence my.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say love for money but my enjoyment of going out and socializing and making people laugh and having a good time with them and seeing that I could.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the more effort I put into it or the better I listen to the more questions I would ask and a story that.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you'll get a kick out of this my mom remembers me coming back at 13 years old and I would ask each golfer or each group I'd find someone in the group and ask them what they did doctor.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's what I want to do. Can you tell me more about that every time so I would have all these a and have all these career ideas but be.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: This was no one taught me this I don't know why this came to me but I got in the habit of the young age of just asking really detailed questions about similar to Dale Carnegie's book about what people care about.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And so with tips I turned that into a like small business wiring cell buffers in high school and from there I continued to work and.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: For whatever reason I don't think this was always a good thing but I've always had to work like it just I didn't feel good not working so I played baseball on junior college and I was the captain of the baseball team and I was washing dishes on the weekend at an Italian restaurant so just work ethic and I think.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I know for sure on this the work ethic that I continued to put in and not necessarily being the most talented was selling but being willing to do the most and do the most repetitions.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get into the commitment finding but having high commitment to doing whatever it takes to learn or to be successful.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: That started to show I would say when I got into my late 20s I started to see more recognition for it within the sales world and then.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I had been introduced to curl in associates in 2014 when I was a participant in a sales training and we'll talk about sales training and how it sticks or how it doesn't stick today but for me I could see that other people within the.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Group within the webinar within the sales kickoff some of them were rolling their eyes because they had nothing to learn and they were too good and I was soaking this shit up it was everything I ever wanted like.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This was as close to Jedi mind tricks as I could get so I was just eating it like tell me more tell me more and.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was doing COVID I reached out to the person who had trained me and that was Dennis Connolly and I just asked.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get started and what age do I need to be to get started and then a few interviews with Dave and I was on the team and that was three years ago I believe this month.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That's an awesome story and I can tell you kind of you that arc was a lot deeper you kind of cut you cut through that but that if you notice what you were doing as a catty talking to those golfers is exactly what you were doing when you went to to Dennis like how do you do this what's it all about right you just don't into that and it.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I I call that you know in sales I think what one of the most important things is having curiosity about the people you're talking to.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's a prospect person you're coaching person you're training customer because you're right nobody gives a shit about us not at all they really like you go to a cocktail party you go to a networking event my response.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: To hey what do you do for living say yeah, nobody cares what do you do and they don't want to listen to what I had to say anyway right they give me everything that they want and they never come back and ask.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: What it is I do because that's all they want to do is tell me what they do.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say do you notice they take the bait almost every time it's not like no no I'd love to know they're like okay one who I this is what I do and it's found down one run.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: One time did somebody come back to that and that person was a very competent salesperson.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was trying to do the same thing.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But that makes us interesting popular they you walk away those people think wow he's an interesting guy and I said nothing they know nothing about me right and what other thing that it does is gives us an opportunity to figure out if that person is somebody that I do want to spend time with in the future or if that's somebody that might be.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a candidate or might be a center of influence for me without me having to do anything other than just listen.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So that curiosity you had it as a kid right and when you combine curiosity with the with the work ethic that is.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know just just a driver.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The those things with that ability to listen and keep asking questions and digging in it's one of the probably one of the things I'm most proud of with our with our daughter.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how much I had to do with it but the kid has a work ethic.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody that she's worked with that I know as she was growing up they were like you know we need more of her.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: She's she just we don't have to tell her what to do she just goes and figures it out and does it.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's going to get you.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Will the work ethic and the ability to ask questions.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: The deal Carnegie thing I want to go back to that.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how did how did that how did you get that the first time who told you to read that or who gave that to me.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know I actually don't know.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember where I was when I read it I just don't it may have been if I were to put my finger on anything it may have come from Tim Ferriss.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not certain.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you recall but that book and I love this about the book and.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Most people probably did not do it but if you recall the book.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The book requires you I'm using air quotes, but requires you to read each chapter twice before moving on so it really sinks in and it doesn't matter how long ago the book was written.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: People I mean you can look back at at stoicism and the journals of Marcus are really us and we're still humans like we still have a brain that is hardwired to be similar to hundreds of years ago.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So the things about that book it just really stood out to me and putting myself or frequently being in social situations I was able to.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to call it like my my lab my life lab put it into practice and see it work immediately and I was just.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: All struck at how effective it was I remember being in a client dinner actually and I remember the client wanting to invite his wife and she was great.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just using very simple principles from that book and I remember him apologizing to me after and saying I don't know what got into her.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard her talk like this and all I was doing was I just get asking tell me about that oh and when do you do this and how that make you feel that's exciting I better was like this and it just for two hours she filled.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I filled the room and filled the table with conversation so I was able to see that it worked and I continued to use it.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not sure exactly where it came from.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: The basic principles are allow us to.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I have sort of a framework to actively listen I think is a good way to look at that.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So you.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You are in in a several sales jobs you've been selling really when you is a caddy that's all you're doing it's really selling and listening and talking to people and absorbing.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of those things and that work ethic you know getting getting the curling and associates at a because you're on the younger side of that.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That group right you bring the average age down a little bit and I think so in the real little bit yeah just a little bit.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Not quite as much gray hair no offense Dave yeah.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Or Chris but I mean and those are some pretty pretty solids smart experience sales guys so you mean you can just in even in a huddle you can you can learn just by listening to those to those guys and they've.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The experiences that they've had those stories that they can tell you can just sit there and soak those up and get better and better and better so huge opportunity but they don't they don't bring people on without.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Belief that they're going to do the job commitment desire responsibility right all of those things are or given.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of want to pivot a little bit and talk a little bit about coaching and training and how mindset sort of fits into that we call it sales DNA for for those of the audience.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Dairy's working with curling associates Dave Perlain is really the founder of the brains behind what started OMG and those the assessments and the tools that.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That are there today to help us look at a sales team you get a look at what's going on in their head where the skills are and the thing that interests me.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And from a coaching perspective is how.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: How we can deal with the those six competencies in the sales DNA and getting that right before we go do training so it's kind of curious enough and not serve a bit of a ramble but it gives you some space to think about when you're approaching.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: A client and you've done the analysis and you have a team and you understand strengths and weaknesses you know what in at a high level what are you thinking about when you're going to go start to work with them from a training perspective.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: To soon they have a process in place that makes some sense but to soon that they they you know have some level of accountability.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And we want to get them up to speed like what where do we go.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you if you would ask me this question.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Two years ago I would give you a very different answer.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And in this main this may not answer.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The DNA or the belief system question that you're asking.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But as far as approaching.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: A new client and new sales team as far as approaching my.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Go to battle strategy.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that battle strategy.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as far as sales training and sales development goes.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: My first concern the first thing that I need to address the first thing that I want to be sure we're all on the same page about that I need to iron out.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Is accountability from the top down without that.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: See, O top it there cannot be a single break.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: If there's a break with in.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say the CEO is bought in and he passes it off to the VP of sales to handle and the VP's bought in but the VP doesn't hold the sales managers accountable.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there is a lack of respect for the sales managers to the VP.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the VP doesn't feel confident in holding their feet to the fire.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Sales training won't work.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It just won't work and I'm sure there's an example that there's always an exception to the rule, but just like just like this book or the journal the five minute journal we're talking about how great it is.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't do a fucking thing if you don't fill it out.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Dale Carnegie's book one of the best books I couldn't recommend it more anybody that wants to get better dealing with people go read it.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You could have a hundred thousand people listen to this.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe 300 will actually read it.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is what I'm picking up on.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we're looking at human beings, there's two things that most human beings have in common or have a disdain for and one is they don't like change and they also don't like the way things are.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So now we're fucked again.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I don't have buy in.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't have buy in it's just not going to sink in.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And the sales person unless they dislike their sales manager, which that can happen for sure.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I can happen.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But most of the time they are.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: By committee bought into the sales manager because they why would they swim upstream or create any riffs with their sales manager.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to buy into what I have to say if the sales manager is telling them that they're not bought in.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So that is not I apologize.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not down the the sales DNA spectrum, but then you're on point.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You're really you're you're a step ahead of this like those are real issues.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: These are the the biggest issues and that I would attribute it will take it back to the well to self finding.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: There has to be commitment company wide or like for this really to work.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And also make you know CEOs cringe it some cringe, but to really make it work.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to be willing to do the hard things like pulling the plug on the problem.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And most of the time, like I said we don't really love change and I could go into a company this is a real story.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I was working with if we have time are you okay if I tell you real story up now.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember doing a sales leadership intensive and guiding this team of sales leaders on the importance of accountability.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: The importance of coaching.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The importance of getting your team where they need to be in.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to use battle ready again so that when they go out, they can be successful on their own.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This is this is me first getting to know this company and this guy who is just such a fucking asshole.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I got I just have like I will never forget this person he kind of puffs up and you could tell he had some insecurity issues and he says wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You're telling me I got to you told me I got to send them I got to send them out there on their own.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: No no I'm a lead from the front kind of guy I'm going in there I'm going to make sure that they close the deal and I'm like okay.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well you're going to completely take away from their growth you're taking away from their ability to do things I'm not telling you to set them up for failure.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But I am telling you to get them ready so that they don't need you if they need you they can call you that's okay.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You want them to be able to fly on their own so this is my first meeting with them and I'm thinking okay this must be some high performing elite sales leader and I just don't know what I don't know.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is this is about two years ago so I'm new in the business I don't want to rough on any feathers there.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I find out this dude has missed quota six quarters in a row.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So now what does that say about his leaders?

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Six fucking quarters in a row what is going on do you expect me to fix this person this is right away an accountability issue if you have instructed him to do things differently and he's not.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And now you've brought me in and the first meeting he's disagreeing with me and getting a puppy puppy and no one's going to address this.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we need to talk because technically I am not your employee and I am not his boss so unless you want to give me some authority here.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a problem and they waited another two quarters to let him go we want to talk about wasted money and this I don't want to transition to for a few years of piss in away money.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Two years of pissing away money this guy never performed who is a sales manager that they gave a salary I think he was making like 160 or 170 to not perform and we can shift into this in a second.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But we have clients that bitch or complain or aren't willing to pay a very small fee for an assessment.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But they are willing to pay someone for two years to not perform to completely fuck up the whole sales team that he was responsible for.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Bad metrics bad coaching leading by fear not leading by guiding and then the territory is completely shot for two years so it's not like oh we didn't sell there for those two years.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We were sliding backwards we need to stop the backwards momentum and erase these bad behaviors before we can even keep going.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to stop there because I'm way over on that.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The opportunity cost of those eight quarters is almost in kelp heel ball ball right because you're you can you can figure out what you paid on me can figure out what he didn't do how much revenue was missed off the targets but like how much did he affect your reputation your brand.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And within that territory within those marketplaces how much did he screw up those individuals by trying to be the hero instead of the hero maker right right not given them the confidence you know making him have the glory and he did a shitty job of all of it because he wasn't wasn't there.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say this just so we can wrap our heads around this so the salary that's what that's what employers worry about we don't want to pay out salary.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The opportunity cost with somewhere around 80 million.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's not I mean move a zero round right you know you could give me eight million could be 80 million can be under thousand dependent on what it is but it's a real a real number that's meaningful to that organization.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it it comes down to those not making those hard decisions.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had a habit and it sometimes it's cost me but I'm talking to the entrepreneur to see you and they're all excited the engagements been mapped out everybody's agreed to timelines it's all there.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they're ready to rock and roll I'm like hey can I can we talk about why this won't work.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like what what right the whole body language changes like because they're ready to move forward I'm like let me help you understand what why this won't work.

[00:30:34] It's you.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You are the reason why this won't work right so I'm working with a smaller team of like 10 sales people one sales manager and so what's going to happen is somebody I don't know who yet.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But somebody's going to come to you in about 45 to 60 days and say this guy's crazy.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants us to change what we're doing he wants us to say things differently he wants us to ask more questions he wants.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We never had to do that he wants to hold people accountable.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens in that moment when that person comes to you is going to make a break this engagement.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was it was really wild that guy just kind of sat back and his chair and he goes I can tell you who that's going to be.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like okay good.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: How are you going to answer that question like look practice and kind of role played it out and like then I ask him like why said person still here because you know they're going to be a problem.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's really well so I love the I love the idea and and those of us that are listening that own a business I don't care the size you got a sales team and if you want change to happen it's going to be bumpy.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be some unpleasantness in it there's going to be some change you might have to roll some people out or into a different into a different role within the organization but.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody I've never.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know only been doing this you know eight nine years.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never run into a situation where there wasn't change.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love I love the other thing you said during that everybody hates change but everybody's unhappy with the current situation.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how do we how do we make that bridge right and that's really somebody being what open to the idea of trying to do something different.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't done before.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a getting them there.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the mindset piece right.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it starts with those people at the top that that CEO and I I say you know most of this CEO's I work with our.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Our guys and their mid 40s and mid 50s and they're hard drivers and they've done all the sales stuff themselves but they haven't been able to take what's clunking around in their head and put it into.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: A coherent messaging for their for their sales team.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But they're and they're frustrated those are the guys that I love working with because they want to get I'm doing I'm doing 20 and I and I want to get the 40 right sometimes you got to help them.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Pull the reins back a little bit like you're not going to get the 40 tomorrow.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, it speaks a couple of things.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I would double double down on that and not not that I am so good that I can be picky and choose to and.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I look at every opportunity is an opportunity to help someone grow but also as an opportunity for me to get better because I'm going to have this resistance.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But what you just said is the guy that wants to go from 20 to 40.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That is the person that goes into the gym and says I've got a bodybuilding competition that I've already paid for.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I've made a bet with my friend saying I'm them I have to pay them out $5,000 if I don't walk this stage in 16 weeks sign me up versus the person who's coming in and like checking out what the cheapest membership is.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to work with the person that wants to go as fast as possible and you right we have to set some realistic expectations but that's the person that has the commitment and is going to be eating up everything I say and putting it into action right away with the other person.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: There's not enough time in the day there's not enough time in the week for me to give them change or to help them enough to where I feel like I'm doing them solid and maybe I'm maybe I'm too attached to the outcome.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't like working with anyone that they don't at the end of the day say holy shit we are growing so fast this is the best thing since sliced bread and the only disservice I'm going to do you Derek is I'm not going to share your information because I don't want you having my anyone else have a nice secret.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going for so I want the person that's ready to go right now. That's that's the gold client. Thanks for watching another episode of sales and cigars. I'm looking for guests. I'm looking for really good guests who have an interesting story to tell.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not your material journey. They want to talk about something that's going great in their organization. I'm really interested in speaking to business owners and CEOs.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The other type of guests I'm looking for is somebody's got a passion for cigars and we can do a short episode about a pairing about a new cigar they discovered about something around their passion of cigars.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So if one of those things fits you or you know somebody or want to make a recommendation shoot me an email.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Ping me on LinkedIn. I'd love to get some guests from the audience appreciate it thanks.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's a negative thing. I only want to work with people that really want to take it to the next level because I want to instill value.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're paying me a dollar, I want them to make 10 or 20 on each one of those dollars.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They should be able to realize that and see it quickly if they have that level of commitment.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So for me it's a positive that that's why I kind of and ruthlessly disqualify to quote my our friend Nate to this right that we're going to ruthlessly disqualify those people that don't have that commitment because it's our time.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: If we want to help people and that's really a big driver for what we're looking to do sure we want to get paid without.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But if we're not actually helping people it becomes harder and harder to do this because it's a tough job as you know I want to get paid.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel guilty for my own reasons if I'm getting paid and I don't show results.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I am so addicted to the results that I want to double check triple check that the buy-in is as full as it can be and I have had and this was a.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this was probably 10 months ago and this was a kind of an unusual moment for me but I was speaking with the VP of sales at a company and it was 8 p.m. my time.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm taking his call and this had happened this was going on you know a few nights a week for a few weeks in a row and he asked me.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Derek, why are you taking my call? Why are you so committed to this and I can't get the people that I have on salary to do their job and I didn't have an answer other than.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I am addicted to seeing these things happen. I am addicted to growth. I am addicted to helping people.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember being in a situation where I didn't have a sales process where I didn't have a methodology and I was the person that was just you know going.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be able to listen and be able to ask questions in a way that presents your expertise.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That was the magic code that I was always waiting for and I just I'm going to sound like a religious nut here but it's like I want to share that with everybody who wants to learn and that's.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't ask me that question but that's why I am so in love with this business and that's what keeps you going.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the reason to get out of bed is the reason to be grateful.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: To me if we're doing the right things, the money takes care of itself.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: If we're doing the right things there will be opportunities that present themselves.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably what we probably come from similar backgrounds and that I had a blue collar background that was a work ethic.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what I didn't have as growing up.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I had everything I needed but I had jobs from the time I was 12, right? Right all through college.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's that value of time that value of providing value and you know just trying to try and coach a group of teenagers that I kind of.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a loosely mentorship program but it's like if you want to get a raise don't go ask for the raise go ask for how can I be of more value to this organization.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: How can I have more value to the team right and that's the right question to ask isn't about giving more money please it's about what can I do to get there and it's a it's a mindset shift of.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: How we were brought up and then you get the driver you just want to keep keep going and getting better.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and there's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to work with people that don't want to.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the right question to ask for what you want to do to get the driver you just want to kick it into the next year they don't all have to be a players but they all should be looking for reasons because it's a sales is tough it's a slight edge right for us to win or lose and if we're not looking for what that edge is.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We're we're not doing our job.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you say that the a player thing and I can think back to even middle school sports and it now it's clicking with me it's resonating a little bit more but I remember a coach yelling at us.

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how fucking good you are if you don't hustle you're out of here and you could be the worst player on this field.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: If you show me hustle in and out every day you're going to stick around and when we're talking about they don't know how all have to be a players.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to work with a Z player that's commitment is off the charts.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the person that's going to be the story that I'm most proud of as opposed to the B- player who doesn't think they need anything that isn't coachable that really isn't committed and they're there because.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They're managers that they had to participate and they sit through my 30 minutes session go on and don't really put anything into practice but that gave me a good visualization with sports connecting it to the people that we work with.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You just pop something in my head there was like six grade basketball seven grade basketball and the coach was like whenever there was a guy on the other team who was like their elite player because I was like to six or seventh guy and basketball.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I could barely dribble and shooting wasn't my thing but I could play defense and he would tell me to get in there and go stop him from doing what he's doing.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd go in and I'd get you know, create fouls and be aggressive but the guy who threw him off his game and it sort of like how whether it was tennis or golf there is that mentality right.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That you're always trying to try and to hustle a little bit more than the other people even on the golf course right because I'm playing the course.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_00]: There's still that competitiveness with the knuckleheads on playing with even though they're friends.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I still want to have that make that 15 foot pot when they miss their 12 foot pot.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but yeah, and that's the rub is there.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So if we want to give a piece of advice here so you got to you got a CEO who is struggling to get their team.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: He'll tell the countable they're struggling to get their their team headed in their right direction and he's got the wrong people on the team right you do the analysis and you know three of the five just don't have the commitment don't have the desire.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You got too many other challenges.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you telling them I'm just just curious about myself that is Derek think about that do we want to give those people a shot or do we just want to clear how what your thought there that's a that's a really good question.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I firmly believe that commitment can change when the pupil if you will believes in the teacher and I have seen low commitment in the past when they didn't get any value from the reader or they didn't feel like they would do anything more because they didn't know what else to do.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So I can have my doubts but I table them and I like to do a check in at about six weeks to see we assign homework.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We ask questions we look for participation if we're not getting it or if we're getting someone that's combative I'm very quick to pull the report no question.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I will also talk to the CEO or the leader about being relentless in the pursuit of excellence and when you have someone weighing you down.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not always right but when it comes to this I'm rarely wrong you can let them hang on for nine months 12 months I can think of a specific person that the CEO knew probably wasn't going to make it but they always had you always have that deal in the pipeline that was just going to hope yeah this one's going to pop and and if they're a really nice guy.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They've been around people like them I knew they weren't going to make it after six weeks and they waited I believe 12 months and when the 12 months came it's not going through a breakup when you know what's going to go bad but you kind of put it off like maybe we'll make it work let me try this we're going to take a vacation let me try hanging out with my buddies a little bit less that you know it's not going to work.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You got to do it at your own time but I really want to get I want to do a gut check with the CEO about how serious they are to doing whatever it takes.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Within reason and ethically to get to the goal that we both set because I don't want to be the one towing to line and then have the CEO not show up for their team to hold them accountable and now I'm battling and as you know this could be a sales team of 50 people and it feels like I'm battling 50 people because leadership isn't bought in so

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to make sure that everyone's moving with me and we're going step for step and sometimes I might be a little bit ahead and I'll wait for them to catch up that's fine but I don't want to be 60 pieces ahead I'm looking back and they're not going to follow.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But it goes back to what you said at the very beginning Derek about if we don't have the commitment from that CEO we don't have the commitment from this the sales leader that there's.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to change there's going to be required we need accountability if they're not there if they don't have that level of commitment it is going to just not work.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I look at.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We did the same thing with the analysis on the front end and like these three people I did this on Monday these three people have some significant challenges they're here you've had them employed here for a while.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you hire them again knowing what you know now? Oh no, it was everybody in the room. No okay, but you have them here now.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So if we're going to do this then what we need to do is set some really firm expectations and check in in a month and if they haven't really move the needle then you have to commit that they won't be here in 90 days.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're not making some kind of incremental problems they're not hitting those expectations and they're like well that's going to be really hard and like okay.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that it will be.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it goes back to the thing you said at the beginning commitment right is it right for them to sit around here in flounder is it right for your company the brand we could talk about how much money you're going to lose.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That'll be really painful that'll be more painful than you have to say look you're in the wrong spot do what you can help them right find another gig but this isn't this isn't the right spot, but let's try.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Right let's really dig in and really focus on that but if they're not willing to make the change then you have to.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's weird to watch the room kind of get uncomfortable with that.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that and the other piece that so we're talking about opportunity cost and we're talking about having people that don't perform with there's.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: There's many layers to the to the issues with an under performer if they're still around it needs to some degree they're likable.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So they probably have some colleagues that like them even though they're not performing.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So now you've got someone that is planning negative seeds and talking shit and this is another finding that that you and I are very familiar with but.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Responsibility they're always going to come up with an excuse I've seen this play out too many times and excuse for what got in the way and why they weren't able to get things done.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that just festers and you want to get that pulled out as soon as possible but it also it sends a message and and I don't I don't think that anyone should be performing out of fear.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean go back to sports like it's like playing her that that's not the goal here, but when you remove the bottom performer.

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It sends a message to the team that things are changing and the person that was just above the bottom performer now their asses on the line and that's okay because someone that wants it they're going to perform and they're going to tow the line back up.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you and this is I guess just a tip for for any CEO that doesn't know this but when you look at the talent acquisition of the hiring portion or recruiting portion of the sales team.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I've yet to work with the company that is regularly hiring they're always reactive and that's what makes it so difficult to let people go is because they know it's going to take something like 90 days and they're going to have to hire this person and it's somewhat of a gamble and.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_01]: There's probably more to it that they have a shitty onboarding plan and there's there's just there's a lot of finger pointing here is around fear of letting this person go because what could happen.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But if they were to be consistently recruiting and always just slow trickling someone in let's say every quarter they let go the bottom performer and this isn't the bottom performer that was just onboarded but someone that's had their time to prove themselves.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I would hate for it to to breed a culture of fear but if you're a performer you wouldn't be living in that fear and you're going to consistently have new performers coming in that.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: To provide that camaraderie in that healthy competition and the company just grows and that's how you get a company or that's how you get a culture of a players and when you set a baseline.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That your top performer right now and we can use the role specifications with the assessment if your top performer right now is your future baseline.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful things are going to happen with your team you were going to breed a dream team culture and whatever revenue targets you had in mind you're going to blow them out of the water that's my thoughts on that but.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: No those are those are great because that is a big problem they're they're reactive not proactive they're they're it stops them from because what they're doing is accepting media equity.

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Right because the other side of that that that coin that you're talking about is like this fear of not replacing people the fear of you know that case liked and you know.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: If once you once you set the bar a little bit higher and we're like we're not going to accept this anymore everybody else is like oh.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh okay we need to we need to work and get better and and if you're providing them the help to get better they're more likely to to navigate to that help to go to go get themselves better right we're given them the opportunity.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to step up and we're letting them know that that media equity is no longer acceptable and we're going to train is leaving the station and we're going in this direction the train is.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a beautiful scenery there's a bar car on the train it's all going to be great.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah it's leaving so get on right because once you get on and it's going in your depth to jump off.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be it's going to be a rough landing.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So I absolutely love this this conversation because you know given that business owner that CEO some things to think about.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to change their mind because what would I really like one of my little tags that I I kind of talk about a lot is to think differently about sales.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: To think different about the sales conversation to think different about how we hire people think different about how we evaluate people.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The allowing somebody to go six quarters without you know hitting a number that's not their fault.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's like a parent allowing their children to run or mock right yeah like they they they allow their kids to run around the dining room table.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they come up grab some food run back in the family's training eat and then they go out to dinner and they're surprised that the kid acts like a crazy person at a restaurant.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it's not the kids fault it's the two adults that are sitting there on their phone more than likely not paying attention anything.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Right I'm doing what curling does a good little political there but it's it's real it is real.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: How many times do you go out and you look at look around the restaurant and the whole family is on their phone.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: To spending money on having a nice dinner out.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not they're not paying attention to each other.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got a family of four and they're in four different worlds scary it is scary.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're I think we're in a lot of trouble and this is this is where I'm.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_01]: This is where I am starting to recognize my age as I feel like I'm saying things that my grandpa said.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_01]: The future is completely fucked like like no question like no question like like it is going to be a.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Beyond disaster I live in Seattle and this is a Seattle thing but I think it comes with an I'm pointing like this because I'm looking out at Amazon and Google right now I'm downtown.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a culture where you don't say hi to people.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You're in the same elevator and everyone looks down at their phone.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've been hearing of this I did not coin this terminology but it's a real thing.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We have younger BDRs and STRs coming up in a world where they're expected to pick up the phone and they've never made a phone call before.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called telephonobia I didn't know that was a real term but they don't know how to they don't know how to talk to people on the phone.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And you want to know that you want to know the best practice that I ever got and you were fortunate I'm on I'm the elder of the millennials so I still have the benefit of using a landline but the toughest cold call.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: To reach a decision maker was when you had to call a girl's house and ask their dad if they were home so you could take them on a date.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Now you can bypass that because you don't have to get their number you can find them on Instagram or Facebook and send them a message like there's no there's no confidence and now we've got this culture of people that don't feel good about themselves and they're depressed and they have nothing to show because they're being baby to taking care of.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And no one has to do a fucking thing like I'm going on my own right now but this is a real problem it is and you do sound like a grandfather that it's it's blowing 100% I had I have a daughter one daughter and having.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_00]: A boy like not looking in the eye not shake your hand not come up to the door right to to deal with what they had to deal with.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Andrew scary yeah that's part of what he needs to deal with this is what they have to go through this is the gauntlet to get to you and like well you know I'm like no if he doesn't come in you're not leaving.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like text it them to come in and when the guy came in like what's wrong with you like you think I can sit in my driveway and be peorn yeah that's crazy.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's not how works did yeah well you know I didn't mean he disrespect but you did.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't mean any respect when you pulled up in a heart and you come in signology and ask for permission.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And let me know that you're going to have my daughter back before the curfew that I said because you didn't even ask me yeah and this is crazy times and it's going to get worse that's my forecast but here's but here's the upside to that.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If you if you raise a kid to have a work ethic you raise a kid to to be willing to to go out there and pick up found and be a little bit vulnerable.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to win so much easier to win.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't agree more I couldn't agree more that's what I keep telling myself.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking around the competition is going away it kind of is it is it really is picking up picking up a phone.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Pick up a phone like we both call CEOs but I'll call around 330 on a Friday and see you picks up the phone.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing picking up the phone on 330 at Friday and he's like will you call and what are you doing calling.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get started I ask question where your salespeople and then boom is emotionally involved right and it's like really upset.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And like well do you know where they where they probably had happy off wouldn't it be cool to go over that to that bar right now and show up and see that's a great idea.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Right and so we but I have a conversation with somebody because I pick up a phone.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Right the phones dead yeah okay it's still it's.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're getting dead with the wrong people unfortunately for us it's a direct align with no traffic to contacting people who care about speaking to people.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's it for for the salespeople listening or for the CEO that thinks you're doing any justice by mass emails.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I get 100 emails a day of junk shit that's not even really addressing me with the boiler plate statement I don't look at it for longer than one second.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've gotten.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_01]: One cold cold in the last six months and I took it and it went really well it actually went really well but if you want to get away from the traffic or if you want to find your way to actually.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be resonate with someone and have them say this is different.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Pick up the phone it's not crazy even art and sound different don't say I'm calling to check in right like the guy said that to me the other day I'm calling to check in I'm not a fucking hotel dude.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah check it on light any hung in you hung up.

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it to scare it to come into the house yes I think we could have this conversation I don't know if we're going to solve the world's problems but I think we gave.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Some business owners some value I think we helped them see that there's some things that they can think a little differently about.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to have your your data and show notes the website.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the best way for them you said a bunch of smart stuff what's the best way for somebody to reach out to Derek.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a LinkedIn I'm active on LinkedIn Derek Bear D.E.R. E. K. B. A. E. R. And if you want to email me d. B. A. E. R. So,

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go to the hotel or a polo. I guarantee myself no number is in there and I will answer believe it or not.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So last question dude any relationship has to present with cigars.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I know so my my last my last memorable cigar was in Havana Cuba at hotel Nassianna which was I think.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Frank Sinatra stayed there Winston Churchill it was a super familiar with the hotel.

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It is it is the quintessential hotel.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think in the forties they hosted a very well known mob conference there as well.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where they all hung out is where they tried to figure out a way to put all the casinos and hotels.

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, yeah right the the last scene the one at the last scene but one of the scenes from Godfather 2 is based on a true story that they were all there trying to you know get the deal put together and then.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But else guys sort of storm the castle if you will. So you had a cigar and hotel not you know this I had a cigar there and it was it was.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Notably different than any cigar that I've had in the US like with without question and I'm not a what you call it a cigarfici and auto is that what you'd say that's a term yeah it's a term it was it was.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Notissibly different and noticeably enjoyable but that is that was my last my last memorable cigar scenario.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't recall I'm in and I'm guilty of being the person it could have been a brand that was is very well known and that I would be lucky to have tried but I wouldn't have known the difference I just know that it was very very enjoyable.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a different to different tobacco we got the seeds all over the place but the reason I know that it's different is.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I was walking my friend I would go off for like a walk with kind of like a night and I take a cigar for a walk.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: She hates the guys but I'm respectful of where the smoke's got so I was smoking a boulevard.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm from Cuba and she's like what do you smoke him and like why?

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like it smells different.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go okay what do you mean smells different well it smells like the cigars that my opa smoke when we would go for walks in Germany.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And like oh really do you remember what he smoke now there big long.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay well this is a Cuban cigar and he doing little research with her mom and they smoke Cuban cigars so she could tell.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that the smell was different than the the normal cigar that I smoke in that out smoke shitty cigars I mean.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean they do sometimes but and but she could tell the difference so that your point is a hundred percent valid there is something different about their.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Their earth the soil the air.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all it's different because it is special so it was you're the first guy who's had us a guy or hotel national in Cuba.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you well it was wasted on me I'm probably the of all the cigar people out there I'm probably the least educated but I can assure you that I appreciated that moment.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome dude thank you I appreciate this was a lot of fun we had a lot of value.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again thank you and if you ever want to extend I would love to do a number two.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Got it well I think we'll do that just come off for the top appreciate it.

[01:05:00] Thank you.