Sales & Cigars | Sales Training Without Commitment is a Waste with Derek Baer | Episode 192

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome to Sales and Cigars, I'm your host Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode is Chock Full of Value for your business owners, for your sales leaders, and for sales people.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about why sales training is a waste of resources when we don't have the key components in place before we do it.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: My guest Derek Baer is part of Curlin in Associates. He is a guy that's got a great work out that going back to when he was a kid.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He understands how to communicate with people, and we just have this great conversation where we're just dropping all these tips.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Derek is sharing his philosophy, he's sharing his approach, he's sharing these little tips for CEOs, and for VP's of sales and for sales people.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar, strap in for another impactful episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So Derek, welcome to Sales and Cigars, I appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much for having me, and I am grateful to be here.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this when we had the conversation when we were in Miami.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been kind of thinking about trying to reach out to you, and it's like, yeah, I'm going to see him.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad I'm glad you agreed to do this.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it. I don't look forward to it.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean as well.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start off.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I always like to ask the same question, is there a book that you gift or you reread on a regular basis?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to give you and I hope this doesn't mess anything up.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have no script, so the first book that I read the most is or that I've read the most and gifted for someone to take something from it.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And put it into application is going to be how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's just bar none for anybody that has any social anxiety and feels any sort of discomfort about what do I say?

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: How do I handle this situation?

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to dive too far into it, but it is the art of asking people about themselves, which you know when cares about anything else.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: The lower they're talking about themselves and you will be the most interesting person in the room.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And then this is really important for me to share the one that I've gifted or purchased the most is the five minute journal.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, so this is not are you familiar with us?

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a story but go ahead. I absolutely love how did you come to that?

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I had heard about it.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably 2016 in a podcast. I just heard about the gratitude journal and then I stumbled upon this and I as soon as I fill it out, I purchased a new one.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's on repeat and Amazon for me and I've without question and I have gifted that to the most people.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It is great for people going through tough times.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great for people going through good times and it sets the precedent of when you wake up.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We can get caught up in the head trash and the bullshit of everything that's negative going on around us, but when you really simplify things, there are at least three things that you can be grateful for.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: When you set an intention for the day, it gives you a guide.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And my caveat here is as important as it is to fill out in the morning.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't do the best job of this but you must fill it out in the evening.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't even imagine what happened in the day when you reflect back on it, at least three things have happened and it could be the smallest thing like having a moment and watching a bird in the forest.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And it could be something that touches you in a way that you realize this simplicity of life. There's just so much beauty to it.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: When you look at what you accomplished in the day, bigger small. You did make forward progress and I think all too often we get caught up in this big pioneer sky goal and any big pioneer sky goal is going to be taken down by little steps.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a really good way when we talk about sales to monitor your metrics of progress and the goodness that comes in every day.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's my little spiel.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. You're the first to bring that up and it's incredibly, everything you said is a hundred percent on it.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We can get ourselves into asking ourselves some bad questions.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We can get down on ourselves real quick, especially if we're trying to be a high performers and we're trying to push the envelope.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That journal forces you to stop.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you've got to really think about the little bird that you saw in the bird feeder in the path in the woods or the moment that you had with that little dog that was walking down right.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We just saw them or the squirrel that saw you like we have bird feeders all over our yard and sometimes it's the squirrel like you're not supposed to be in there dude.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Really nice supposed to be in there but it's like they made a little connection with this little animal.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's little.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a couple of these over a course of over two years and then I decided to do something because I noticed something in my in my journaling at night, especially at night.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That I would say something about my my wife something that she did.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I made this thing the day after Thanksgiving, we would go to Florida, my daughter and my wife and so I made a decision at that next day that Friday would start a new journal and it was all about her.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: The morning was like what I wanted to do for the day and then what are the three things that I really captured.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That I need to be grateful for about her changed a lot of things within the relationship and what was really cool is that the next Thanksgiving gave her the journal.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's awesome.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's not one to go to tears and she started flipping through it. She's this is all about me and like.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about us it's about you it's about the kid it's about all the things that happen, but it's like I don't tell you these things.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Enough but I cognizant of everything that you do.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a really cool thing to anybody that's listened to really think about that one or two things that your spouse does for you or your friend right that helps you get through.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Get through the day get through the week. So really powerful journey.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you noticed this because we as as complex beings were actually very simple and I don't know if you noticed this pattern, but the three things that would make my day great.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We're all really simple and it seemed to repeat itself every day like it wasn't I wasn't jumping around saying, oh, wish I would do this or that it was very consistent and.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: When we remove the glamorous or the glamour and the glitter and everything that you know we can see in the media is what should be important to us especially as people in the United States.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: My shit is so simple like for me to have a great day it is very, very simple and I don't know if you had that experience as well.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes and what was happening I started to notice when I first did when I did the first one it's like there's a lot of the same things here.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I reached out to the guys that were responsible for this because I came to this through Tim Ferriss.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He's the one who sort of recommended this at one it was.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know one of the things I read from him and I reached out to the guys who produced the journal and they're like that's normal.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You're you're having the right kind of patterns you're seeing the right kind of things because and I'm going to get like a really long email that was incredibly encouraging.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: To think about like you're looking at these these simple little things that really make you happy so why are we worried about all these other things right and I mean I got a little less than that of the out of his response but you're right just.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: The getting up and seeing a sunrise or having some solitude with a cup of coffee watching the the woods come to like I live in the woods right so watching these animals all kind of come about.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It was that was one of the things that I kept repeating like just seeing that was incredibly grateful and then I get off and I can tell you that I haven't done one in a in a couple years and that might be the thing that I need to do because I've gotten to be.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of negative about myself right that that mindset issue that one of the things that we'll probably talk about here but.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it that's a great gift for somebody because you're really given them this gift of gratitude it's awesome there and I might have I might know where my next gifted book is going so ask you for your address after this make sure you find yourself a copy.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that so let's talk a little bit about like.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: How you got to where you are when you're you're the you know top of the echelon in the sales sales world right you what we call elite.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And like talk but walk me through like how do you get there. How do you build that.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I would I think if we were to go way back and I'll speed through it.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that work ethic was instilled at a young age for my parents so I can remember.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I can remember I think the first thing that I was really selling like isn't it my own little business was I can remember in high school.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually so before that I was a cadet of golf course and I would get tips those 13 years old and that started to influence my.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say love for money but my enjoyment of going out and socializing and making people laugh and having a good time with them and seeing that I could.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The more effort I put into it or the better I listened or the more questions I would ask and a story that.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe you'll get a kick out of this my mom remembers me coming back at 13 years old and I would ask each golfer or each group I'd find someone in the group and ask them what they did doctor lawyer.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's what I want to do. Can you tell me more about that every time so I would have all these a and have all these career ideas but be.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: This was no one taught me this. I don't know why this came to me but I got in the habit of the young age of just asking really detailed questions about similar to Dale Carnegie's book about what people care about.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And so with tips I turned that into a like small business wiring cell buffers in high school and from there I continued to work and.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: For whatever reason I don't think this was always a good thing but I've always had to work like it just.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't feel good not working so I played baseball and junior college and I was the captain of the baseball team and I was washing dishes on the weekend at an Italian restaurant so just work ethic and I think.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I know for sure on this the work ethic that I continued to put in and not necessarily being the most talented was selling but being willing to do the most and do the most repetitions.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get into the commitment finding but having high commitment to doing whatever it takes to learn or to be successful.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: That started to show I would say when I got into my late 20s I started to see more recognition for it within the sales world and then.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I had been introduced to curl in associates in 2014 when I was a participant in a sales training and we'll talk about sales training and how it sticks or how it doesn't stick today.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But for me I could see that other people within the within the group within the webinar within the sales kick off some of them were rolling their eyes because they had nothing to learn and they were too good.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was soaking this shit up it was everything I ever wanted like this was as close to Jedi mind tricks as I could get so I was just eating it like tell me more tell me more and.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I was doing COVID I reached out to the person who had trained me and that was Dennis Connelly and I just asked.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get started and what age do I need to be to get started and then a few interviews with Dave and I was on the team and that was three years ago I believe this month.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That's an awesome story and I can tell you kind of you that arc was a lot deeper you kind of cut you cut through that but that if you notice what you were doing as a catty talking to those golfers is exactly what you were doing when you went to to Dennis like how do you do this what's it all about right you just dove into that and it.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I I call that you know in sales I think what one of the most important things is having curiosity about the people you're talking to.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's a prospect person you're coaching person you're training customer because you're right nobody gives a shit about us not at all.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They really like you go to a cocktail party you go to a networking event my response to hey what do you do for a living say yeah nobody cares what do you do.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't want to listen to what I had to say anyway right they they give me everything that they want and they never come back and ask.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: What it is I do because that's all they want to do is tell me what they do.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say do you notice they take the bait almost every time it's not like no no I'd love to know they're like okay one who I this is what I do and it's found down one run.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: One time did somebody come back to that and that person was a very competent sales person because he was trying to do the same thing.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But the that makes us interesting popular they you walk away those people think wow he's an interesting guy and I said nothing.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't know nothing about me right and what other thing that it does is gives us an opportunity to figure out if that person is somebody that I do want to spend time with in the future if that's somebody that might be.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I know I don't know if I want to know if I'm a candidate or might be a center of influence for me without me having to do anything other than just listen.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So that curiosity you had it as a kid right and when you combine curiosity with a with the work ethic that is.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Just just a driver.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you can go out and does it.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's going to get you with a work ethic and ability to ask questions.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: The deal Carnegie thing I want to go back to that.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: How did how did that how did you get that the first time who told you to read that or who gave that to me?

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know I actually don't know.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember where I was when I read it I just don't it may have been if I were to put my finger on anything it may have come from Tim Ferriss but I'm not certain.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you recall but that book and I love this about the book and.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Most people probably did not do it, but if you recall the book.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The book requires you I'm using air quotes, but requires you to read each chapter twice before moving on so it really sinks in and it doesn't matter how long ago the book was written.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: People I mean you can look back at stoicism and the journals of Marcus are really is and we're still humans like we still have a.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Brain that is hardwired to be similar to hundreds of years ago so the things about that book it just really stood out to me and putting myself.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Or frequently being in social situations I was able to.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to call it like my my lab my life lab put it into practice and see it work immediately and I was just.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just just using very simple principles from that book and I remember me being a client dinner actually.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember the client wanting to invite his wife and she was great, and I was just using various simple principles from that book.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember him apologizing to me after and saying,

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what got into her.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard her talk like this.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And all I was doing was I just get asking.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about that.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and when do you do this?

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And how that make you feel?

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's exciting.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I bet it was like this.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And it just for two hours.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_01]: She filled the room and filled the table with conversation.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was able to see that at work.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I continued to use it.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure exactly where it came from.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: The basic principles allow us to have a framework

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to actively listen, I think,

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: is a good way to look at that.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So you are in a several sales job.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You've been selling really when you're a caddy.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That's all you're doing.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really selling and listening

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and talking to people in absorbing.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of those things and that work ethic,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: getting the curling and associates at a,

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: because you're on the younger side

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: of that group, right?

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You bring the average age down a little bit.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think so.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: In the real little bit, yeah, just a little bit.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Not quite as much gray hair and no offense to hate for you.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, or Chris.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But, and those are some pretty,

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: pretty solids, smart, experienced sales guys.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can just, even in a huddle,

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you can learn just by listening to those,

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to those guys.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And they've,

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: the experiences that they've had,

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: those stories that they can tell,

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you can just sit there and soak those up

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and get better and better and better.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Huge opportunity.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But they don't bring people on without belief

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that they're gonna do the job, commitment, desire,

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: responsibility, all of those things are given.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of wanna pivot a little bit

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and talk a little bit about coaching and training

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and how mindset sort of fits into that.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We call it sales DNA.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: For those in the audience,

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Derek's working with Curl and Associates,

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Dave Curl and is really the founder

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: of the brains behind what started OMG

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and those, the assessments and the tools

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that are there today to help us look at a sales team

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and get a look at what's going on in their head

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and where their skills are.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that interests me

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and from a coaching perspective is

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: how we can deal with the those six competencies

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: in the sales DNA

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and getting that right before we go do training.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kinda curious,

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's sort of a bit of a ramble

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but it gives you some space to think about

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're approaching a client

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and you've done the analysis

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have a team

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and you understand strengths and weaknesses.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, at a high level,

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: what are you thinking about

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're gonna go start to work with them

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: from a training perspective?

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: To soon they have a process in place

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that makes some sense.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But to soon that they have some level

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: of accountability

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and we wanna get them up to speed.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like where do we go?

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you would ask me this question

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: two years ago, I would give you a very different answer.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And this may not answer the DNA or the belief system

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: question that you're asking.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But as far as approaching a new client and new sales team

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: as far as approaching my go to battle strategy

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that battle strategy.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Like as far as sales training and sales development goes

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: my first concern, the first thing

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that I need to address,

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the first thing that I wanna be sure

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we're all on the same page about

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that I need to iron out

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: is accountability from the top down.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Without that,

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: CEO top,

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: there cannot be a single break.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: If there's a break with in,

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: let's say the CEO is bought in

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and he passes it off to the VP of sales to handle

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and the VP's bought in

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but the VP doesn't hold the sales manager as accountable.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there is a lack of respect

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for the sales managers to the VP.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the VP doesn't feel confident

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in holding their feet to the fire.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Sales training won't work.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It just won't work.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure there's an example

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's always an exception to the rule

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but just like this book,

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: or the journal, the five minute journal,

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we're talking about how great it is.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't do a fucking thing if you don't fill it out.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, Dale Carnegie's book,

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the best books I couldn't recommend it more.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody that wants to get better at dealing with people

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: go read it, you could have 100,000 people listen to this,

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe 300 will actually read it.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That's just what I'm picking up on.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we're looking at human beings,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: there's two things that most human beings have in common

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: or have a disdain for and one is they don't like change.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And they also don't like the way things are.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So now we're fucked again.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I don't have buy-in,

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: if I don't have buy-in, it's just not gonna sink in.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And the sales person, unless they dislike their sales manager,

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: which that can happen, for sure that can happen.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But most of the time they are buy-in,

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: committee bought into the sales manager

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: because they, why would they swim upstream

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: or create any riffs with their sales manager?

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not gonna buy-in to what I have to say

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: if the sales manager is telling them

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that they're not bought in.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So that is not, I apologize,

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not down the sales DNA spectrum,

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but then you're on point.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You're really, you're a step ahead of this.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like those are real issues.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: These are the biggest issues.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would attribute it.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll take it back to the well-to-self finding.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: There has to be commitment, company-wide

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: or like for this really to work.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And also see EOS cringe, shit, some cringe,

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: but to really make it work,

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they have to be willing to do the hard things,

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like pulling the plug on the problem.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And most of the time, like I said,

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: we don't really love change.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And I could go into a company,

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: this is a real story.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I was working with, if we have time, are you okay?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: If I tell you real story,

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a mid-man.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember doing a sales leadership intensive

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and guiding this team of sales leaders

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: on the importance of accountability,

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the importance of coaching,

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the importance of getting your team

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: where they need to be in.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna use battle ready again,

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: so that when they go out,

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they can be successful on their own.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: This is me first getting to know this company.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy who's just such a fucking asshole,

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I just have to like, I will never forget this person.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He kind of puffs up and you could tell he had some insecurity issues

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and he says, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you're telling me I gotta send them out their own,

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: no, no, I'm a lead from the front kind of guy.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going in there, I'm gonna make sure that they close the deal

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm like, okay, well,

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to completely take away from their growth,

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you're taking away from their ability to do things.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not telling you to set them up for failure,

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but I am telling you to get them ready

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: so that they don't need you.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: If they need you, they can call you, that's okay.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You want them to be able to fly on their own.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is my first meeting with them

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm thinking, okay, this must be some high-performing elite sales leader

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and I just don't know what I don't know.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is about two years ago,

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: so I'm new in the business,

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't wanna rough on any feathers there.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I find out this dude has missed quota six quarters in the row.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So now, what does that say about his leaders?

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Six fucking quarters in a row,

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what is going on?

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you expect me to fix this person?

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: This is right away an accountability issue

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have instructed him to do things differently

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's not.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And now you've brought me in

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and the first meeting he's disagreeing with me

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and getting Huffy Puffy

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and no one's gonna address this.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we need to talk because technically I am not your employee

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am not his boss.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So unless you wanna give me some authority here,

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: this is going to be a problem.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And they waited another two quarters to let him go.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We wanna talk about wasted money

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and I don't wanna transition two for humans.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Two years of pissing away money.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Two years of pissing away money,

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: this guy never performed,

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: he was a sales manager that they gave a salary.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was making like 160 or 170 to not perform

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and we can shift into this in a second.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But we have clients that bitch or complain

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: or aren't willing to pay a very small fee for an assessment.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But they are willing to pay someone

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: for two years to not perform

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to completely fuck up the whole sales team

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that he was responsible for, bad metrics, bad coaching,

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: leading by fear, not leading by guiding.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the territory is completely shot for two years.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like, oh we didn't sell there

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for those two years.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We were sliding backwards.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to stop the backwards momentum

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and erase these bad behaviors

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: before we can even keep going.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna stop there

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: because that way of how I'm not doing it.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing it in cause.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: The opportunity cost of those eight quarters

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: is almost incalculable, right?

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you can figure out what you paid on,

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you can figure out what he didn't do,

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: how much revenue was missed off the targets.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But like how much did he affect your reputation,

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: your brand within that territory,

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: within those marketplaces?

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: How much did he screw up those individuals

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: by trying to be the hero instead of the hero maker?

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Not giving them the confidence,

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, making him have the glory

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and he did a shitty job of all of it

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because he wasn't there.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say this just so we can wrap our heads around this.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So the salary, that's what employers were about.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't wanna pay out salary.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The opportunity cost was somewhere around 80 million.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 80 million.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not, I mean, move a zero round, right?

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you could be eight million,

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: could be 80 million,

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: it could be under 1000 depending upon what it is.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a real, a real number

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: that's meaningful to that organization.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And it comes down to those,

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: not making those hard decisions.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had,

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had a habit and sometimes it's cost me.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm talking to the entrepreneur of CEO

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're all excited.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The engagement's been mapped out

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody's agreed to the timelines it's all there.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And like they're ready to rock and roll.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, hey, can we talk about why this won't work?

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, what, what?

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole body language changes

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: like because they're ready to move forward.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, let me help you understand

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: why this won't work.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's you.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You are the reason why this won't work.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm working with a smaller team

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: with like 10 salespeople, one sales manager.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say, what's gonna happen is somebody,

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who yet,

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: but somebody's gonna come to you in about 45 to 60 days

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and say, this guy's crazy.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants us to change what we're doing.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants us to say things differently.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants us to ask more questions.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: we're never gonna have to do that.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants to hold people accountable.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens in that moment

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: when that person comes to you

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: is gonna make a break this engagement.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was really wild.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That guy just kind of sat back and his chair

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and he goes, I can tell you who that's gonna be.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, good.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: How are you gonna answer that question?

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's practice

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and kind of roleplay it out.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I ask him like why is that person still here?

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know they're gonna be a problem.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really wild.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So I love the idea

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and those of us that are listening

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that own a business, I don't care the size,

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and you got a sales team.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want change to happen,

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gonna be bumpy.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: There's gonna be some unpleasantness in it.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: There's gonna be some change.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You might have to roll some people out

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: or into a different role within the organization.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But inevitably, I've never,

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: only been doing this eight, nine years.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never run into a situation where there wasn't change.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the other thing you said, Derek,

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that everybody hates change,

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: but everybody's unhappy with the current situation.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we make that bridge?

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really somebody being open to the idea

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: of trying to do something different

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that they haven't done before.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Getting them there, that's the mindset piece, right?

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it starts with those people at the top.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That CEO.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say, most of the CEOs,

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I work with our guys and their mid 40s,

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: the mid 50s and their hard drivers.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And they've done all of the sales stuff themselves,

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but they haven't been able to take what's clunking around

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in their head and put it into a coherent messaging

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: for their sales team.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But they're frustrated.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the guys that I love working with,

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because they wanna get, I'm doing 20.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanna get the 40, right?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you gotta help them pull the reins back a little bit.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're not gonna get the 40 tomorrow.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It speaks a couple of things.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I would double down on that.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And not that I am so good that I can be picky and cheesy.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And I look at every opportunity,

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: there's an opportunity to help someone grow,

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but also as an opportunity for me to get better,

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm going to have this resistance.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But what you just said is the guy that wants to go

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: from 20 to 40, that is the person that goes into the gym

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and says, I've got a bodybuilding competition

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that I've already paid for.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I've made a bet with my friend saying,

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to pay them out $5,000 if I don't walk this stage

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in 16 weeks sign me up.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Versus the person who's coming in and like checking out

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: what the cheapest membership is.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna work with the person that wants to go

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: as fast as possible.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And you right, we have to set some realistic expectations,

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: but that's the person that has the commitment

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and is gonna be eating up everything I say

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and putting it into action right away.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: With the other person, there's not enough time in the day,

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: there's not enough time in the week

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: for me to give them change or to help them enough

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to where I feel like I'm doing them solid

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe I'm too attached to the outcome,

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but I don't like working with anyone

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that they don't at the end of the day say,

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: holy shit, we are growing so fast.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the best thing since sliced bread

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and the only disservice I'm gonna do you,

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Derek is I'm not gonna share your information

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: because I don't want you having my,

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_01]: or anyone else having my secret.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm going for.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want the person that's ready to go right now.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the goal client.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for watching another episode.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Of sales and cigars.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for guests.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for a really good guest

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: who have an interesting story to tell.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: They're entrepreneurial journey.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They wanna talk about something that's going great

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in their organization.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really interested in speaking to business owners

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and CEOs.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The other type of guest I'm looking for

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: is somebody's got a passion for cigars

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and we can do a short episode about a pairing,

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: about a new cigar they discovered,

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: about something around their passion of cigars.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So if one of those things fits you

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: or you know somebody or wanna make a recommendation,

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: shoot me an email, ping me on LinkedIn.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to get some guests from the audience.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it, thanks.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think that's a negative thing.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is like your,

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I only wanna work with people that really want

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: to take it to the next level, because I wanna instill value.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're paying me a dollar,

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I want them to make 10 or 20 on each one of those dollars.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And they should be able to realize that and see it quickly

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: if they have that level of commitment.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So for me it's a positive

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's why I kind of

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and ruthlessly disqualify to quote my friend Nate Tudus,

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That we're gonna ruthlessly disqualify those people

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that don't have that commitment because it's our time.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: If we wanna help people

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's really a big driver for what we're looking to do,

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: sure we wanna get paid, not out.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But if we're not actually helping people,

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: it becomes harder and harder to do this.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a tough job.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: As you know, I wanna get paid.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel guilty for my own reasons

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_01]: if I'm getting paid and I don't show results.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I am so addicted to the results

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that I wanna double check triple check

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that the buy-in is as full as it can be.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I have had, and this was,

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this was probably 10 months ago

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and this was a kind of an unusual moment for me

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but I was speaking with the VP of sales at a company

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was 8 PM my time

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm taking his call.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And this had happened, this was going on,

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, a few nights a week for a few weeks in a row.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And he asked me, Derek, why are you taking my call?

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you so committed to this

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and I can't get the people that I have on salary

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: to do their job?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't have an answer other than,

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I am addicted to seeing these things happen.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I am addicted to growth,

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I am addicted to helping people.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember being in a situation

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: where I didn't have a sales process

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: where I didn't have a methodology

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was the person that was just,

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, going location to a location.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, how's it going?

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Is anything gonna help you with it?

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen this pricing?

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I've been the worst of the words.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just wanna check in,

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: hey, just following up, like,

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been the worst of the worst.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And knowing the superpowers that come with a process

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and a good methodology and being able to listen,

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: being able to ask questions in a way

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that presents your expertise.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That was the magic code that I was always waiting for.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I'm gonna sound like a religious nut here

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's like, I wanna share that with everybody

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: who wants to learn.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, you didn't ask me that question

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but that's why I am so in love with this business

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's what keeps you going.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the reason to get out of bed,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is the reason to be grateful to me.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: If we're doing the right things,

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the money takes care of itself.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: If we're doing the right things

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: there'll be opportunities that present themselves.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, it's probably what,

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we probably come from similar backgrounds

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in that, you know, I had a blue collar background

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that was a work ethic.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what I didn't have

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and as growing up, I had everything I needed

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but like I had jobs from the time I was 12, right?

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, all through college.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's that value,

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that of time, that value of providing value

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and just trying to coach a group of teenagers

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that I kind of, it's a loosely mentorship program

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but if you want to get a raise,

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: don't go ask for the raise, go ask for,

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: how can I be of more value to this organization?

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: How can I have more value to the team?

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the right question to ask.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It isn't about giving me more money please.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about what can I do to get there?

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a mindset shift of how we were brought up

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you get the driver,

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you just want to keep going and getting better.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's absolutely nothing wrong

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: with not wanting to work with people

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that don't want to kick it into the next year.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't all have to be a players

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: but they all should be looking for reasons

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's a sales is tough, it's a slight edge, right?

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: For us to win or lose

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and if we're not looking for what that edge is,

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: we're not doing our job.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You say in the A player thing

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and like A can think back to even middle school sports

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and it now it's clicking with me.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's resonating a little bit more

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: but I remember a coach yelling at us,

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how fucking good you are

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: if you don't hustle, you're out of here

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and you could be the worst player on this field

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: if you show me hustle in and out every day

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: you're gonna stick around.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we're talking about they don't know

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: how all have to be A players,

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to work with a Z player

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that's commitment is off the charts.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the person that's gonna be the story

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that I'm most proud of as opposed to the B- player

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: who doesn't think they need anything

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that isn't coachable,

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that really isn't committed and they're there

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because their managers said they had to participate

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and they sit through my 30 minute session go,

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and don't really put anything into practice

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: but that gave me a good visualization

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_01]: with sports connecting it to the people that we work with.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You just pop something in my head.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: There was like sixth grade basketball,

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: seventh grade basketball

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and the coach was like whenever there was a guy

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: on the other team who was like their elite player

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was like the sixth or seventh guy in basketball,

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I could barely dribble and shooting wasn't my thing,

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but I could play defense.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And he would tell me to get in there

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and go stop him from doing what he's doing.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd go in and I'd get create files

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and be aggressive,

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but the guy who threw him off his game

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and it sort of like how whether it was tennis

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: or golf, there was that mentality, right?

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: That you're always trying to

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: try to hustle a little bit more than the other people.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Even on the golf course, right?

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm playing the course,

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: there's still that competitiveness

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_00]: with the knuckleheads I'm playing with,

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: even though they're my friends.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I still want to have that,

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00]: make that 15 foot pot when they miss their 12 foot pot.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the rub, is there,

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_00]: so if we wanna give a piece of advice here,

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: so you gotta, you gotta, a CEO who is struggling

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to get their team held accountable.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They're struggling to get their team headed

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in their right direction.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's got the wrong people on the team, right?

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You do the analysis and three of the five

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_00]: just don't have the commitment,

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: don't have the desire,

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: they've got too many other challenges.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you telling them,

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just curious about, you know myself,

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that is Derek, think about that.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we wanna give those people a shot

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_00]: or do we just wanna clear out what your thought there?

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good question.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I firmly believe that commitment can change

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: when the pupil, if you will, believes in the teacher.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I have seen low commitment in the past

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: when they didn't get any value from the reader,

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: or they didn't feel like they would do anything more

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: because they didn't know what else to do.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So I can have my doubts, but I table them

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and I like to do a check in at about six weeks

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: to see, we assign homework.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We ask questions, we look for participation.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: If we're not getting it,

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: or if we're getting someone that's combative,

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very quick to pull the rip cord.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: No question.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I will also talk to the CEO or the leader

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_01]: about being relentless in the pursuit of excellence.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you have someone weighing you down,

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not always right, but when it comes to this,

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm rarely wrong.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You can let him hang on for nine months, 12 months.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I can think of a specific person

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that the CEO knew probably wasn't going to make it.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But they always had that deal in the pipeline

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that was just going to hope, yeah,

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: this one's going to pop and then they're a really nice guy.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They've been around people like them.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I knew they weren't going to make it after six weeks

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and they waited, I believe, 12 months.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And when the 12 months came,

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not going through a breakup.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: When you know what's going to go bad,

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_01]: but you kind of put it off,

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_01]: like maybe we'll make it work.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me try this.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a vacation.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And let me try hanging out with my buddies a little bit less.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you know, it's not going to work.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to do it at your own time,

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but I really want to get,

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to do a gut check with the CEO about how serious they are

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to doing whatever it takes within reason and ethically

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: to get to the goal that we both set.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't want to be the one towing the line

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and then have the CEO not show up for their team

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to hold them accountable.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm battling.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And as you know, this could be a sales team of 50 people.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like I'm battling 50 people

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: because leadership isn't bought in.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to make sure that everyone's moving with me

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're going step for step.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I might be a little bit ahead

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'll wait for them to catch up.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine, but I don't want to be 60 pieces ahead

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking back.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're not going to follow.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But it goes back to what you said at the very beginning, Derek,

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_00]: about if we don't have the commitment from that CEO,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't have the commitment from the sales leader

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that there's going to be required.

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We need accountability.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're not there, if they don't have that level of commitment,

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_00]: it is going to just not work.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I look at, we did the same thing with the analysis

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: on the front end.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And like these three people, I did this on Monday.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: These three people have some significant challenges.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_00]: They're here.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You've had them employed here for a while.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you hire them again?

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No one want you know now?

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody in the room?

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But you have them here now.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So if we're going to do this,

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: then what we need to do is set some really firm expectations

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and check in in a month.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And if they haven't really moved the needle,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_00]: then you have to commit that they won't be here in 90 days.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If they're not making some kind of incremental problems,

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they're not hitting those expectations.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, well, that's going to be really hard.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I like, okay.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It will be.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it goes back to the thing you said at the beginning,

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it right for them to sit around here in Flaunder?

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it right for your company, the brand?

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We could talk about how much money you're going to lose.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That'll be really painful.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That'll be more painful than you have

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and to say, look, you're in the wrong spot.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Do what you can to help them.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, find another gig.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But this isn't, this isn't the right spot.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's try.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's really dig in and really focus on that.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But if they're not willing to make the change,

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_00]: then you have to.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird to watch the room kind of get uncomfortable with that.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And the other piece that we're talking about opportunity cost

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're talking about having people that don't perform,

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: but there's many layers to the issues with an underperformer.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: If they're still around, it means to some degree

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: they're likable.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So they probably have some colleagues that like them,

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_01]: even though they're not performing.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So now you've got someone that is planning negative seeds

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and talking shit.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is another finding that you and I are very familiar with,

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: but responsibility, they're always going to come up

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: with an excuse.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen this play out too many times and excuse for what God

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in the way and why they weren't able to get things done.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that just festers.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And you want to get that pulled out as soon as possible,

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but it also, it sends a message.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that anyone should be performing out of fear.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, go back to sports.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I could say playing hurt.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the goal here.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you remove the bottom performer,

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: it sends a message to the team that things are changing.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And the person that was just above the bottom performer,

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_01]: now their ass is on the line.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay because someone that wants it,

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_01]: they're going to perform and they're going to tow the line back up.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you, and this is, I guess, just a tip for any CEO

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that doesn't know this, but when you look at the talent acquisition

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_01]: of the hiring portion or recruiting portion of the sales team,

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I've yet to work with a company that is regularly hiring.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: They're always reactive.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what makes it so difficult to let people go

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: is because they know it's going to take something like 90 days

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're going to have to hire this person

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's somewhat of a gamble.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's probably more to it

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that they have a shitty onboarding plan

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's just, there's a lot of finger pointing

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: in the ears around fear of letting this person go

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_01]: because what could happen.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But if they were to be consistently recruiting

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and always just slow trickling someone in,

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_01]: let's say every quarter they let go of the bottom performer.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And this isn't the bottom performer that was just onboarded,

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_01]: but someone that's had their time to prove themselves.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I would hate for it to, to breed a culture of fear,

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you're a performer, you wouldn't be living in that fear.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to consistently have new performers coming in

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that provide that camaraderie in that healthy competition

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and the company just grows.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how you get a company or that's how you get

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_01]: a culture of A players.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you set a baseline

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that your top performer right now,

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and we can use the role specifications with the assessment,

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: if your top performer right now is your future baseline,

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: beautiful things are going to happen with your team.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You were going to breed a dream team culture

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and whatever revenue targets you had in mind,

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to blow them out of the water.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That's my thoughts on that.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But no, those are great because that is a big problem.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They're reactive, not proactive.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They're it stops them from,

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00]: because what they're doing is accepting mediocrity.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the other side of that coin

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're talking about is like this fear

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: of not replacing people the fear of that case liked.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And once you set the bar a little bit higher,

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're not going to accept this anymore,

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody else is like, oh, okay,

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: we need to work and get better.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're providing them the help to get better,

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_00]: they're more likely to navigate to that help

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to go get themselves better.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We're giving them the opportunity to step up

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're letting them know that mediocrity

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: is no longer acceptable.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going, the train is leaving the station

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're going in this direction.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_00]: The train is gonna be a beautiful scenery.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a bar car on the train.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all gonna be great.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's leaving.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So get on, right?

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because once you get on and it's going

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're deaf to jump off,

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gonna hurt.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's gonna be a rough landing.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So I absolutely love this conversation

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_00]: because we're given that business owner,

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that CEOs and things to think about

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that's gonna change their mind.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Because what I really want to my little tags

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that I kind of talk about a lot

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00]: is to think differently about sales.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: To think different about the sales conversation,

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to think different about how we hire people.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Think different about how we evaluate people.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The allowing somebody to go six quarters

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_00]: without hitting a number, that's not their fault.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a parent,

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: allowing their children to run a muck.

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they allow their kids to run around

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the dining room table,

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_00]: come up, grab some food, run back

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in the family's train eat.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they go out the dinner

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're surprised that the kid

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_00]: acts like a crazy person at a restaurant.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not the kids fault.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the two adults

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that are sitting there on their phone

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_00]: more than like, they're not paying attention to anything.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing what Kirlan does,

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a little political there, but it's real.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: How many times do you go out

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and you look around the restaurant

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and the whole family is on their phone?

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Two minutes.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Bending money on having a nice dinner out

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're not paying attention to each other.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got a family of four

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're in four different worlds.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Scary, it is scary.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're in a lot of trouble

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is where I'm,

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_01]: this is where I am starting to recognize my age.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm saying things that my grandpa said.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_01]: The future is completely fucked.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like no question,

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_01]: like no question.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it is going to be a beyond disaster.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I live in Seattle and this is a Seattle thing,

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but I think it comes with,

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm pointing like this

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm looking out at Amazon

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and Google right now, I'm downtown.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a culture where you don't say hide-of-people.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You're in the same elevator

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone looks down at their phone.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've been hearing of this.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I did not coin this terminology,

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's a real thing.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We have younger BDRs, NSTRs coming up in a world

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_01]: where they're expected to pick up the phone

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and they've never made a phone call before.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Telephynobia.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that was a real term,

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_01]: but they don't know how to talk to people on the phone.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And you wanna know the best practice

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that I ever got and you were fortunate.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on the elder of the millennials

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_01]: so I still had the benefit of using a landline,

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_01]: but the toughest cold call to reach a decision maker

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_01]: was when you had to call a girl's house

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and ask their dad if they were home.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So you could take them on a date.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Now you can bypass that

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because you don't even have to get their number.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find them on Instagram or Facebook

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: in sentiment message.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no confidence

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and now we've got this culture of people

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that don't feel good about themselves.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're depressed and they have nothing to show

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're being baby to taking care of

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and no one has to do a fucking thing.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm going on my own right now,

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but this is a real problem.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And you do sound like a grandfather

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that's blowing 100%.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a daughter, one daughter,

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and having a boy not look in the eye, not shake your hand,

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_00]: not come up to the door, right?

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_00]: To deal with what they had to deal with.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, dad, you're scary.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's part of what he needs to deal with.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what they have to go through.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the gauntlet to get to you.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And like, well, you know, I'm like,

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_00]: no, if he doesn't come in, you're not leaving.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, text it him to come in

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and when the guy came in, I'm like,

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_00]: what's the fuck's wrong with you?

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you think that could sit in my driveway

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and beat the horn?

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not how works did.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what I didn't mean to disrespect,

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_00]: but you did.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't mean any respect when you pulled up

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and hurt, and you didn't come in,

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_01]: acknowledge me and ask for permission

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and let me know that you're gonna have my daughter back

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_01]: before the curfew that I set

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because you didn't even ask me.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is crazy times

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's gonna get worse.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_01]: That's my forecast.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But here's the upside to that.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If you raise a kid to have a work ethic,

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you raise a kid to be willing to go out there

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and pick up the phone and be a little bit vulnerable,

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they're gonna win.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so much easier to win.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't agree more.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't agree more.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I keep telling myself.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not looking around.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: The competition is going away.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of is.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It really is.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Picking up a phone,

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: picking up a phone like we both call CEOs.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll call around 330 on a Friday.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The CEO picks up the phone and I'm like,

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: what are you doing?

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Picking up the phone on 330 a Friday

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's like, well, you call.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, what are you doing calling?

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, before we get started,

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I ask you to question where your salespeople

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and then boom,

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_00]: he's emotionally involved.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And like really upset.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, do you know where they,

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but probably it happened.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't it be cool to go over that to that bar right now

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and show up and see?

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great idea.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But I have a conversation with somebody

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_00]: because I pick up a phone.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The phone's dead.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It still looks.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing more to get rid of.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Dead with the wrong people.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately for us,

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a direct line with no traffic

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to contacting people who care about speaking to people.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's its effort for the salespeople listening

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_01]: or for the CEO that thinks you're doing

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_01]: any justice by mass emails.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I get 100 emails a day of junk shit

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not even really addressing me

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_01]: with the boiler plate statement.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't look at it for longer than one second.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've gotten one cold cold in the last six months.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I took it and it went really well.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It actually went really well.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to get away from the traffic

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_01]: or if you want to find your way

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to actually resonate with someone

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and have them say this is different, pick up the phone.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not crazy even art.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And sound different.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't say I'm calling to check in.

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the guy said that to me the other day.

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm calling to check in.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a fucking hotel dude.

[00:59:36] What is more?

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, check it on what?

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Any hung in?

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you hung up?

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_00]: To scare it to come into the house.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we could have this conversation.

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we're going to solve the world's problems.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we gave some business owners,

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_00]: some value.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we helped them see that there's

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: some things that they can think a little differently

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: about.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to have your data in the show notes,

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the website.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the best way for them?

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You said a bunch of smart stuff.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the best way for somebody to reach out to Derek?

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm active on LinkedIn, Derek Bear, D-E-R-E-K-B-A-E-R.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to email me, d-B-A-E-R

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_01]: so, D-B-R at Curlinassociate.com,

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm sure you'll have this all written out in the show notes.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It'll all be in the show notes.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So a ping-a-mung LinkedIn, shoot-a-mung note,

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and maybe pick up a phone and call it.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe pick up a phone if you utilize your prospecting tools

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: like Zoom Info or Apollo.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I guarantee myself, oh, number is in there.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I will answer, believe it or not.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So last question, Derek.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Any relationship faster present with cigars?

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the athlete.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I know, so my last memorable cigar was in Havana, Cuba,

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: at Hotel Nassinal, which was, I think,

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: like Frank Sinatra stayed there, Winston Churchill.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a suit, but are you familiar with the hotel?

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you heard of it?

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the Quintessential Hotel in the lobby.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the 40s, they hosted a very well-known mob conference

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: there as well.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That's my thing.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It is where they all hung out,

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: is where they tried to figure out a way

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to put all the casinos and hotels.

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The last scene, the one at the last scene,

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but one of the scenes from Godfather II

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is based on a true story that they were all there

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to get the deal put together

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the Dells guys sort of stored the castle, if you will.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So you had a cigar and hotel Nassinal this time?

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a cigar there, and it was,

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: notably different than any cigar that I've had in the US.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Like without question, and I'm not a,

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: what do you call it?

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: A cigar, aficionado, is that what you'd say?

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a term, yeah.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a term.

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was noticeably different

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and noticeably enjoyable, but that is my last,

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: my last memorable cigar scenario.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You have a Q-Voliver with that or?

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't recall.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in, and I'm guilty of being the person

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it could have been a brand that was very well known

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and that I would be lucky to have tried,

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: but I wouldn't have known the difference.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I just know that it was very, very enjoyable.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a different, to different tobacco.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got the seeds all over the place,

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but the reason I know that it's different

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: is I was walking, my friend, I would go off

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: for a walk with kind of like a hike

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and I take a cigar for a walk.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: She ate cigars, but I'm respectful

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of where the smokes go.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was smoking a boulevard from Cuba,

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and she's like, what are you smoking?

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, why?

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, it smells different.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go, okay, what do you mean smells different?

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it smells like the cigars that my opa smoke

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: when we would go for walks in Germany.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And like, oh, really?

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what he smoked?

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't have a big long line.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well this is a Cuban cigar.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And he doing little research with her mom

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and they smoke Cuban cigars.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So she could tell that the smell was different

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: than the normal cigar that I smoke in that else.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Smoke shitty cigars.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they do sometimes, but hopefully I don't.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And but she could tell the difference.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So that your point is a hundred percent valid.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: There is something different about their,

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: their, their earth, the soil, the air,

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it's all it's different because it is special.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So they was.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the first guy who's had a cigar

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: hotel, not Chanel in Cuba.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was wasted on me.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably the, of all the cigar people out there,

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably the least educated,

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but I can assure you that I appreciated that moment.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, thank you.

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate this.

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This was a lot of fun.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We had a lot of value.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you ever want to extend,

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to do a number two.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we'll do that.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Just come off of the topic.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it.