Sales & Cigars | The Four A’s Needed to Scale Your Business with Nate Tutas | Episode 219

[00:00:07] Hey everybody, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars, the podcast for entrepreneurs where the only smoke we blow is cigar smoke. Today my guest is Nate Tutas. Nate's my friend, colleague, and he's the guy that asks me questions that just stop me in my tracks sometimes. So Nate hasn't been on the program in probably six or seven months. I've asked him back because he has this idea of the core four. And the core four impacts entrepreneurs and business owners and helps them scale their lives.

[00:00:37] business by avoiding the shiny object syndrome that we all suffer from. The four big ideas has a lot of nuance, so we're going to get into that and so we're going to end up giving you a lot more than just the four. We'll get into how the distractions affects our ability to execute and implement. I took a close look in the mirror and all of this is true for me too. So Nate and I discuss how to avoid all these problems. So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar, and strap in for another insightful episode of Sales and Cigars.

[00:01:07] Thanks. Nate, welcome back to Sales and Cigars. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy travel schedule. Yeah, thanks for having me back. It has been quite the travels and I'm just entering the gauntlet now, so it's pretty busy. You're part of what, two or three masterminds and you're teaching, you're coaching, your business is growing, a lot of exciting stuff.

[00:01:32] Yeah, sanely blessed. Part of three different masterminds at the moment that are investments and then I've got two other masterminds that are just a group of guys and gals at a forum that we meet on a semi-regular basis and then I also do in-person training and also virtual training for mastermind.com and Dean Graziosi and Tony's team. Still have my own business that I'm running as well. So a lot of moving parts. Plus a wife and a daughter you get to spend a little bit of time with from time to time.

[00:02:01] Yep. Dan, and recently they're actually traveling with me. So that was a growth goal of ours is getting to the point where they could travel anytime I travel. And unfortunately a month ago we had to put our Siberian Husky down so that obviously that's a tough thing, but the positive side, if there is a positive side to that, is Mandy and Emma can travel freely without having to worry about coordinating, taking care of our dog.

[00:02:25] Yeah. And that is a real thing. Like to become part of your little world and taking those quick little trips for the weekend requires tending to that family member who's not always welcome where you travel to. Yep. Yeah. Especially with the Siberian Husky when you try to go somewhere in summer because they don't like going anywhere hot. Yeah. Arizona is not going to be a place that he would have enjoyed. No, no. That's more torture.

[00:02:48] Yeah. So give me a book. I know we've talked, you've helped me keep my library, Audible library full. Most of the books that are behind my head are things that you've recommended at one point or the other. Give me a book that you, you've been recommending to college. I know I probably mentioned how to raise your own salary before, which is a great one. Have I previously mentioned 38 letters to J.D. Rockefeller and his son?

[00:03:15] That one's over there. You and I have had individual conversations around that. And I bought that for my daughter to read based on my read, your recommendation to me. And then I gave it to her. Or it's a great selection because it, it's not something somebody would really think about getting, right? Cause it's in sort of an old timey book, if you will. Like, is that what Russell calls them? Old timey books?

[00:03:39] I think so. But it's one of those that it's like, if you could get inside the mind of some of the great tycoons, Andrew Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, obviously, these are literally his letters to his son from a leadership and sharing virtues and sharing, Hey, this is what you're experiencing right now.

[00:04:01] This is my experience. This is how I recommend you look at it and consider it and think about it. It's a great book. So it's something that I actually aspire to leave for, for my daughter is to start writing her letters on a regular basis to say, Hey, this is the scenario. These are my thoughts, take it or leave it. But, you know, here's my thoughts to share with you. And then that can live on forever.

[00:04:20] Aside from some of the leadership ideas and discipline and philosophy that you pull from that book, it's a different perspective on the man that you see that's been portrayed in other biographies and movies and such. That, you know, he was a successful guy back then. You had to be kind of aggressive and tough and ruthless to a certain extent.

[00:04:43] But underneath all that, there was some real strong basis for his philosophy around business and religion and just philosophy. Being someone who's into NLP and neurolinguistic programming, we always like to model proven practices and we like to understand the way someone thinks to get to the end result. And there's a lot of that that shared there. That's really his philosophy on life, on business, on competition, on all that kind of stuff.

[00:05:10] I mean, I think one of my favorite stories he talks about, I think the guy was a colonel in the Civil War, but he talks about how they had ongoing feud between the two of them and how he loved it because that was just competition. And he's like, it's not anything against the man. I love, you know, great guy and everything. But what I love about it is we can go back and forth. And he even mentions at one point, I forget which letter specifically it is, but he goes golfing with the guy and he breaks a club, I think it is.

[00:05:39] And the example that he's sharing with his son is that he knows the guy will do well because the guy doesn't come up with excuses. And he uses that as a case to basically say like excuses are the one thing that will completely ruin your success. And he's like, and I know this guy will do well because he didn't make any excuses. He goes, I ended up buying him another club. Hopefully he'll accept it. He might not just because of the feud that they have.

[00:06:02] And he's like, but you know, he's willing to do that because he knows he's a man of integrity and someone who will not make excuses and will take responsibility for his action. Yeah. But that same letter, the other takeaway is that feud, I guess, is it wasn't personal and that that guy made him better, made him think more about what he needed to do to be competitive and to win.

[00:06:23] And that, that feud made them both better. It wasn't about calling them names and stuff like that. It was, he got me on that or that's a great move. Now I got to do a counter move. It's more like playing chess.

[00:06:36] Throughout the entire book. Cause there's a couple of different times that he mentions different kind of, I think he refers to him as battles, but he references a couple. And it's really interesting to see how every single one of them, he doesn't take as a personal slight. He takes it as, oh, you're going to do that. Well then I have to, I have to outmaneuver you by doing this or doing that. There's, there's the, one of the, one of the oil pipelines where someone's trying to basically outbid him and out purchase.

[00:07:02] And so he has to figure out like how to, and it's, it's just really interesting to see the way that they thought back then, which is equally applicable now. But like, I always marvel at the fact that it's like, they had to think seven moves ahead and be thinking years in advance because of how long that took to actually complete.

[00:07:22] Even references one guy that he's like, I forget the exact gentleman, but he's like, you know, eventually I beat him at our game and he ended up coming to work for my company. Right. That's kind of cool too, because like you said, it's not, it's not personal. It's competition. And he looked at every single one of those things as, oh, great. Someone else that I can battle with and test my merit, test my ability, test my creativity. Yeah. I think it's just a great way to kind of think about it.

[00:07:50] But there are slightly thicker skins than there are right now. Just, just a bit. They didn't have social media to get into it. So thank you for that. There's a lot of things going on with your company, Mindvault. There's, you've got a lot of opportunities for the audience, but what we decided we were going to talk about today was the core four to grow and scale a business.

[00:08:13] And I think this is applicable to the entrepreneur, the solopreneur, the person with a small company, the person with a larger company. There's a thread that goes all the way through that as you grow.

[00:08:23] So why don't we get into those, what I was calling the four A's. I like yours better because your marketing brain works better than mine. Why don't we just get into that and just kind of like walk us through it at a high level. And then we dive in a little bit for each one of those. And if we need to come back to this at some point in the future and dive in a little bit deeper, we can do that.

[00:08:44] I think the best way to kind of introduce it to everybody is probably to share one of the experiences, actually two experiences that I had in some of those masterminds that I'm in. So same exact mastermind. I was in Dean Graziosi's mastermind, which is called the edge. And it's a bunch of us who are entrepreneurs who are growing and scaling our businesses. And we're looking for the cutting edge in marketing, which is why we go to Dean. I had the chance to ask Dean a question. This was two years ago. And I said, Dean, I've got, I've got this idea for this other business. You know, I've been,

[00:09:14] in the sales field and I've got some things that I'm not seeing related in sales consulting and sales training now that I'd like to kind of bring to the market. He said, yeah, I, you know, great idea. I think the business would do well. You're a strategist. So you would know the strategy to employ and think you could do really well with it. And he goes, but let me ask you a question. He goes, if you were to step away from Mindvault, what happens to the business? And I was kind of like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, you're the main breadwinner, so to speak. You're the main cog in the wheel.

[00:09:43] Like, have you replaced yourself that if you move away from the business, your coaching still continues, you still bring in clients consistently, all that kind of stuff. I was like, well, no, I'm like the main, like you said, I'm the main cog in the wheel. And he goes, okay, well, then you're not allowed to do those other things until you fix that problem. And you remove yourself from Mindvault with it still being able to grow and scale at the rate you want.

[00:10:05] So I accepted that for about eight months. And then I got frustrated because I wasn't able to remove myself as quickly as I had wanted to. And I decided, eh, I know what I'm doing. I'll go do these two things on my own. Case to share with the audience, not a good thing to ignore the advice of a billionaire, right? Like Dean has a billion dollar net worth, has grown multiple businesses to multi seven figures, eight figures, nine figures should probably pay attention to the advice that guy gives you.

[00:10:32] But I decided when he gives it to you personally. Yeah. So I actually got to share that story with him just last week at the mastermind that I had ignored his advice and have now come to my senses. And so we've nicknamed that pulling a Nate, which he just affectionately, anytime someone came up with something, he'd be like, oh, you're pulling a Nate. Good. So how about you? So I got to. That's nice.

[00:10:53] Yep. No, but where the epiphany came in was last October. I was in that same mastermind. And one of the gentlemen who is a very, very successful coach in the real estate business. I mean, we're talking nine figure entrepreneur, like very, very successful. He was talking and at one point he said the phrase, and I don't know if it's because I'm a Marine. It grabbed me. And he said, distraction is your enemy.

[00:11:19] And when he used those words, it was like everything from when Dean and I had spoken two years ago, all the way up into that moment flashed through my mind in a split second. And I went, distraction is your enemy. I mean, I've been distracted this entire last, at that point, year and eight months or whatever it was, because I had been looking at three different businesses and trying to grow them simultaneously.

[00:11:43] And I was successful in growing them, but they all grew to a point and then kind of flatlined. And I couldn't figure out how to get them to move and dislodge the needle, so to speak, to get them to grow. And it was because I had shifted my focus, right? I was diverting my focus between multiple different efforts rather than putting it all into one core effort.

[00:12:02] I'm going to interrupt you just a second. What that coach said in that mastermind is the same thing that Dean said to you, just different words and different perspective. Yep.

[00:12:44] That's what he meant. Okay. So I just, I wanted to make that point is we have to sometimes as leaders be able to say the same thing differently so that our team, our audience, our employees hear it for them, not just the way we say it, the way we hear it. Yep. I think that's one of the reasons it's also so important to have a coach at all times. And the reason I say that is because a mastermind, we meet once a quarter.

[00:13:12] And yes, we have interaction in between, we have monthly calls and all that kind of stuff, but you don't have someone that's really there coaching you saying, okay, how did you move the needle between last week and this week? Right. What was your core focus? Did you move the needle or not? Great. You've got these other ideas. We're not getting distracted on it. Distraction's the enemy. Let's focus on the main thing that you're working on and make sure that until you fix that, we don't move, we don't deviate. Right.

[00:13:39] And that's where to me, it's so incredibly important to have a coach that you're working with consistently. Right. I had actually switched coaches right around that time because I was growing these other businesses. So I was like, oh, I'll get a coach that kind of specializes in those areas to help me with it.

[00:13:53] And that allowed me to have that distraction because that person didn't know that coaching that I got from Dean. Right. But that was really what led me to this core four, because where it's helped me in coaching my clients, where it's helped a lot of my clients is I'm able to focus them on the core areas they need to work on in their business.

[00:14:13] And then for lack of better terminology and pardon my French, but I turn into an asshole after that. Like I am there to say, this is where we're focused. And another phrase that Dean says, and there's a number of things that I started looking back over my notes after I had that epiphany.

[00:14:28] And I'm like, there's things that have been said over the last two years between Dean and Tony, that if I look at it, they were said in different ways, but I can basically boil down to there's like five things that they say over and over and over again, that if you apply it to your business, you're good to go basically. Right.

[00:14:43] And one of the things that Dean says is that you have to get comfortable in the uncomfortable. Right. And so when you focus on these four core areas, there's going to be times where you get uncomfortable. And that's usually when distraction comes in. And as entrepreneurs, we refer to it as shiny object syndrome. But we're focused on something. We're working on it. It gets hard like it did for me. It's not as easy as we want it to be.

[00:15:11] We get uncomfortable. Instead of dealing with that discomfort, we shift our attention to go, oh, we'll go try this thing. Right. Or we'll go try that other thing. And that's how we'll try to grow and scale. I haven't done that three times in the last 12 months. Well, and that's when, when like you think about it through that lens of get comfortable in the uncomfortable. If you start recognizing that that's something I've started doing with my, with my coaching clients, they'll come and say, oh, I'm thinking about doing this thing or else. I'm thinking about doing that thing. And I'll say, okay.

[00:15:41] Can I ask you the question? Is this just your uncomfortable right now, which is totally okay. And you're looking for a quick way to get comfortable. Or is it that this is actually the right, the right play, right? Because the other thing that I like to think about when it comes to the word distraction, I got this from the book Indistractable by Nir Rial.

[00:16:03] He talks about how the word distraction, if you break that down in its component parts in the ancient Greek, I think it was or Latin, I forget which one. But dis, the D-I-S means apart from, right? And if you, if you cross out the D-I-S, what you're left with is traction, right? So if you're not getting traction, it's probably because you're distracted, right? So if you cut out the distraction, you get traction and then you can actually start moving forward.

[00:16:33] I like it. One, we have to recognize it. So if we don't have a coach, you should. If you don't, you really need to recognize that space that you're navigating, right? You start to feel a little uncomfortable. Why is that? Am I just trying to satisfy this thing to get me out of this, this uncomfortableness? Or do I need to put my head down and keep working on this thing to solve it, right? To finish it, to make it complete.

[00:16:57] I think those are really good basis for how you got to the epiphany to get to your four A's. Why don't we, why don't we, why don't we share those? And then we can kind of talk through that a little bit. Yeah. So the four A's, right, are first thing you have to do as a business, whether you're a solopreneur or whether you're a large business is you have to attract customers to you, right? So the first thing you have to do is attract. After you attract them, you have to acquire their information.

[00:17:27] I.e., you're building your email list, you're building your database, right? After you acquire their information, there's two parts to acquire. You acquire a purchase, right? So you acquire their information. Then after you have their information, you present them with an offer and you acquire a purchase, okay? After that, you move to the third A, which is you ascend them through whatever your value ladder consists of, right? So typically you're going to have an initial purchase that they might make, and then you're

[00:17:56] going to have some type of secondary or tertiary purchase that they can actually make with you depending on the type of business and whatnot, right? So you ascend them and you have immediate ascension and you also have long-term ascension. So immediate ascension would be something like a book is an easy example. They purchase a book and then you immediately offer them the audio that goes with it or the course that goes with it or the coaching program that goes with it, right?

[00:18:23] If you're talking more of like a corporate America type scenario, they purchase one product and you immediately offer them two of the same, right? You just bought one. Would you like one more, right? Immediate ascension that helps to increase the immediate value that you get from that actual customer. And then the long-term ascension is essentially discovering ways that you can actually increase the lifetime value of that customer. While providing value to the customer. Yes. Not just for yourself. Correct.

[00:18:51] So that might be a longer program that they purchase into. That might be, if you go back to like the business that I was in before I got into the sales consulting space, I was in distribution, packaging distribution, right? So increasing the lifetime value might be that I go from one SKU that we have with them to multiple SKUs, right? And so as a salesperson, I'm always looking at, are there other SKUs I can bring in that

[00:19:18] add value to the customer that I can give them cost savings or efficiency or whatever that might be that are going to increase the lifetime value of that, that customer with us. And then the fourth A, so you've got attract, acquire, ascend. And then the fourth A is once you have those first three A's working consistently, you're consistently able to attract, acquire and ascend. Then you bring in the fourth A, which is to actually go back and automate the process.

[00:19:44] Which allows you to scale without you being the cog in that wheel. Of those four, they're all important. You got to go through all the steps in the ladder. In your experience working with solopreneurs and coaches, where is the struggle? And is it mindset or is it something that they're not doing, understanding?

[00:20:11] I think it's both, but I think it goes back to that phrase from Dean of being comfortable in the uncomfortable, right? And the reason I say that is because where a lot of coaches struggle, where a lot of solopreneurs struggle is the attraction piece, right? They struggle with consistently attracting to the point where it's, you know, everything like when we talk about sales, it's part art, it's part science. Same thing with marketing. It's part art, it's part science.

[00:20:40] But the science part is being able to have a consistent formula that produces results. And what a lot of business owners do in my experience, and this even goes to larger businesses, is they'll skip over really systematizing the attract part. They'll skip that part and they'll go, well, I've got just enough to meet my numbers, to meet my goal, and I'm going to focus in on acquiring the customer, right? Because that's where you make the actual money, which is important.

[00:21:09] But one thing that I've seen is, especially with coaches, they'll create multiple different offers to attract someone to, when really what they should be considering is creating as many ways as possible to attract people to one core offer. Because when they systematize that and they figure out this is the, for lack of better terminology, this is the bait, so to speak, that hooks the customer and gets them to go to the core offer.

[00:21:35] Once you do that, you can systematize that and get people consistently coming in and consistently making sales, which then gives you the ability and the flexibility to automate that actual process and then scale out the business. But in each one of those, I'm going to call them stages of development, there's uncomfortableness all along the way.

[00:21:59] Personally, the hardest part for me isn't the delivery part, it isn't delivering value, it's getting those people to, and figuring out a way to do it consistently, where there's something that is landing with them, that they're drawn in, they're leaning in, right? You haven't acquired them, but it's just getting their attention, that attraction.

[00:22:26] And that's very uncomfortable because you can try three or four different things and a little bit works, a little bit there. And where we get, where I get frustrated is that I want it to go faster. So, you know, I pull innate in that sense, but I do it in a very specific area where I need to. And I realized that and that's what I'm trying to change, right? Not having five things that are six things that I'm working on, just work on that idea

[00:22:56] of getting people to be aware, right? And attract them in. And I'm not there yet, but I'm starting to realize the messaging is the same, it's consistent, but having that, figuring out the vehicle to do it, to me, that's the hard part. And it is science, and it is creativity, and it is thinking outside of the box. And there's a lot of uncomfortableness in it for some of us. Yep.

[00:23:20] You used a word that I think is a great, very closely related cousin to uncomfortableness, but it's frustration, right? And that's usually how the feeling presents itself. That feeling of uncomfortableness usually presents itself as frustration. And it's very similar in the sense of fitness and health, right? If you've ever gone on a diet or you've ever gone into the gym and tried to bulk up and add muscle, that process takes time, right?

[00:23:50] Unless you're going to go on a crash diet and completely ruin your health, that process takes time. And it takes that uncomfortableness. That's one of the reasons that I think so many people give up on their New Year's resolution, so to speak, is they get to a point where it's not going as fast as they want. They get frustrated, and they give up. It's those three big areas, right? And Hormozy talks about this, and lots of people talk about it, but your relationships, your wealth, and your health, right?

[00:24:18] If you really, really think about it, if you're out there in the audience, relationships are hard. You need to work through it. You need to put the effort in. You need to understand what it is that you need isn't always what they need. Creating the wealth for long term, that you still need to have that process and be able to structure that, whether it be savings or investments or building a business or whatever. The health part of it resonates the most with people.

[00:24:44] I was on a system, well, we both did that same little challenge at the first 21 days. And it was great. I was working, and I did it every day. And then I got sick. And I had all these other things going on in my life. And it's like, okay, I can't do all of it, but I need to do something. I need to go put that effort in. And it hurt. It sucked.

[00:25:08] But if I didn't do it every day, and I didn't stay in that uncomfortableness, I wouldn't have stayed with it for however many days we are in the year. And that's what we're talking about here, is that uncomfortable area sticking to it. And this is just a business aspect of this. So the core four to grow and scale. These are areas that you're coaching people on, you have programs on. So why don't you share?

[00:25:34] I know you have this, I'm going to call it an offer, but it's a way for people to dive into this a little bit more to understand it. And we could have you back on here six times, but probably the best way for them to really understand the key components. Because each one of those have layers. Each one of those have nuance. What's the place that they should go to dig in and understand the program that you're offering? Yeah.

[00:25:58] So if people want to go to unlockmv, so mikevictorunlockmv.com, I'm going to have a program that I'm putting together. It's probably going to be a series of workshops. It's actually going to go through the actual core four and how you actually narrow it down and pick your area of focus so that you can actually focus on each of those core four areas for yourself in your business, and then actually grow and scale and know whether you're

[00:26:24] getting distracted or not, or whether you need to stay and focus on one of those areas until you get it fixed. And this will help, this will help you in all three of those big buckets, right? Wealth, health and relationships. But specifically, you're designing this around helping an entrepreneur, helping a sales leader, helping somebody that does what I do, understand what that feels like, right?

[00:26:50] Where that frustration level is and to recognize that so that you can get through it and finish. Because that's the piece. Each one of those sections, each one of those stages, if you don't finish it, you're just going to spin. And as you said before, you're going to plateau. We're now calling affectionately pulling an eight. And one of the first things that people actually find out, because I've actually done this with quite a few of my clients one-on-one. This is just the first time that I'm going to do it in more of a group format.

[00:27:18] But one of the biggest things that my clients come to a realization on is one of the things I say is you get to pick one in each of those core areas, right? So you get to pick one method of attraction, one method of acquisition, and one method of ascension. And most of my customers, when we actually go through and map it out, they've got multiples of each. And they wonder why the customer journey is so incredibly confusing.

[00:27:44] And it's like, well, they don't know what they're being attracted to, which makes it hard to actually attract them because they don't know what it is that you're offering them. And then you're consistently trying to attract people to multiple different things. So you never get one core customer that you're actually bringing through consistently. And if you're not bringing one core customer through that you're solving one core problem for, it's hard to create an ascension path because every ascension path looks different.

[00:28:12] Well, you're confusing your buyer and a confused mind will never buy. Yeah. Right. It's always safer to not take that next step in the ladder or next step in anything. You're like, what do you represent? Yeah. I would really encourage people to go check out that website. It'll be in the show notes with all of other Nate's ways to connect and stay, you know, because you're prolific at putting out content that's of value, whether it be on Instagram

[00:28:42] or all of the socials. That is getting narrowed down, by the way. Moving forward, I'm pretty much going to be putting all of my core stuff on YouTube. And then it will trickle down through the other platforms, but the core platform will be YouTube moving forward. So I'm going to eat my own dog food, as they say. Video. But that's what you've been doing for a while. You're just narrowing into the one track. So go check that out. We'll have you back.

[00:29:11] It's been a little hiatus for one reason or the other. We just need to fix that and keep having these conversations. So appreciate you taking the time. Nate, thanks. Yeah. Appreciate you having me back. All right, folks. We had a great conversation with Nate. Just wanted to kind of go over some of the takeaways here that are really important. That attract idea. Being able to attract our buyers and get their attention. Right? And then we want to acquire. We want to acquire their information.

[00:29:41] We want to acquire their dollars in terms of them buying something from us to get them started. We want them to ascend right away. We want them to be able to move up what we call a ladder in our offerings to make sure that they know what's next. And then what we really need to do at the end is to be able to automate all that so we can leverage ourselves. That's how we're going to grow and scale. We talk about those elements, but we also got into that distraction is the enemy. So really important piece that we can get ourselves into big trouble when we start looking at the

[00:30:11] next shiny object that comes along. And sometimes that feeling of uncomfortableness is really frustration where we're not making progress. So we need to iterate. We need to think about it. Instead of just moving on to something else, really work on getting that element fixed, whether that's attraction, I talk about that part is a challenge for me in my business. Once I get with somebody, I have a lot of success. I have a really good conversion rate. I have offers to take them through.

[00:30:39] But that idea of getting their attention, I always start something and then keep moving in a different direction. So I don't want you to make that mistake. So be careful not to diminish your focus. That was one of the last things we talked about. Nate makes an offer. Those are in the show notes. I have an offer with a sifter message. That's in the show notes. I hope this helps. Hope that we added value. Don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening to Sales and Cigars.

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[00:31:38] Check out the link in the show notes to snag a copy of Scale Your Sales. Avoid the seven critical mistakes CEOs make. It's compact. It gets to the point. And you can read it over a cigar and two or three cups of coffee. I'm no one biased, but I highly recommend it. Sales and Cigars is executive produced by me, Walter Crosby, and it's produced by Courtney Blomquist. Editing and further production support is done by my team at Resonate Recordings. Thanks for listening.