Sales & Cigars | The Journey from Sales Producer to Sales Manager with Jeremy Huckaby | Episode 193

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, Walter Crosby with Helix Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Today's episode is the final of the four episodes that was doing on sales professionals,

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: of trainers and developers and sales people. And my guest is Jeremy Huckaby. Jeremy's

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: with correct, diverse volunteers. He is a CEM is a client of Helix.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I work with Jeremy and he just sort of fits this unicorn of somebody who's been

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: successful producer, is a successful producer. Now, his been a sales manager in his career.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And he has the unique perspective of being both and understanding what it means to be both.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to have somebody on and hit that mold and Jeremy did it. And we had a great conversation

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: about what those roles look like, what we need to do, about purpose, about drive,

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: about behavior. So go grab a cocktail, grab a cigar and strap in for another exciting episode

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: of Sales and Cigars. Thanks.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: The Jeremy welcome to Sales and Cigars. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: sales schedule. Hey, thanks, Walter for having me. Great which to be here.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what are the things is I wanted to have you on as a guest because I'm doing this series

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_01]: of sales development and sales professionals. And you bring a perspective that not a lot of folks have

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: where you've done two things really well, right? You've been a sales person, a sales producer

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: at a high level and then you've managed a bunch of other knucklehead sales people and you've done

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that well. And we met kind of briefly years ago because of a CRM and then we reconnected

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: through a mutual friend. So I think that's sort of the focus of our perspective today to help

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the audience understand the differences between a sales role and a sales management role

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and why it might be a mistake to produce a to turn that sales person who's kicking us into a sales

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: manager. So I'm looking for that perspective as we go through things. Any any great insights you

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: want to add before we get going? No, I think that's a great topic. I think just because you're

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: great at sales does a mean you're you fit in the sales manager all so I'm glad you brought that up

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: because some people just assume that automatically and I'm sure like you've seen I'll seen it

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to myself is that it's not there's always translate. Well, I can I can say from personal experience

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: when when I got my first sales sales director was the title and I got the promotion at a Christmas

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: party and the bosses say hey can you we see you at the bar? And I'm like yeah sure and I looked at my

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: wife and I'm like hey this this could be really bad or it could be really good. We'll see a grab your coat

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know they offered me the role and like a knucklehead I took it and when you know

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: on the way home I remember the conversation with my wife in the car you know she's like well

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: great it's awesome um I just have a question of have you ever managed anyone before?

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like no and why why is that what does that matter she's like well you can barely manage

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: yourself how can you manage anybody else and you know it was a real buzzkill coming off of a high but

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but she's right so what I knew that I sucked at that point and I had about two weeks before the

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: role really started and there was no way to be prepared but I knew that I needed to be prepared

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: so I had to go about setting expectations and trying to figure stuff out as I was going along

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one of those things that you that you you figure out as you go or you don't

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and you just fail miserably you know what I see a lot is sales persons put into the sales manager

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: role they fail they frustrate themselves they frustrate the team they frustrate the ownership

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's a big nightmare so how did you go about is it something you lobbied for?

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you go about getting your first sales management gig?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Well before I answer that it's funny how wives have this way of say stuff you know not way it

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: you know getting you to see the reality even if you don't want to admit it yourself so I can relate to that

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to my wife's voice. Well that's the problem either here. I didn't even think about it right?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like wow it's like a wet blanket but she was right.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah they have good perspective but they're always right but they many times they have good perspective

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: so well I think it's uh I've always said as my wife is really smart highly professional

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: really trained well we just have to question her judge who she married. So all right so go back to the

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: question like you know did you get did you go lobbying for this job or you being a sales manager was

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: something you wanted or is it something that was thrust upon you? It's something I pursued I enjoy

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: opportunity to lead people I feel like I have the gift of encouragement. I feel like I've

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people pouring into me over the years and so I you know I saw it out in opportunity

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: had a recruiter reach out to me and you know it was given the opportunity after being in

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the field being in outside sales for several years so yeah it was something I definitely

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: definitely saw it after I'd seen some good leadership I'd seen a lot of bad leadership and so

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like you know those experiences prepared me at least to a certain degree to be able to say

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: hey I know what I need to do and I know what I need to probably stay away from and not do

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and so that's kind of how I got into my first role as being in a leadership position in the sales world.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So did you so you experience good sales management? Oh absolutely absolutely.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Now that that in and of itself is unique because I think you know and when we're in the green room

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: so to speak you mentioned Mike Weinberg and he talks a lot about in the sales management about how

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: sales managers are awful often and that they they in that's often because they were never led in

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: way like he had the opportunity to be managed and led by somebody who was you know a great mentor

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and ultimately became a partner but that's not normal so you kind of fortunate in that

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: in that regard having somebody that could support they did not immediately did not approach,

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: did not manage. I think that you know I had really one really good sales manager that stands out

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: of the rest and I think it was along the same main he'd seen a lot of the same things he'd seen

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the bad side of it he knew what the realities were he wasn't you know he wasn't just living in

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the corporate mindset so to speak for lack of a better phrase he he understand the realities

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: of what we're trying to accomplish the challenges that reps had day to day and really focused

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: on how to coach them on a real world set of skills and how to you know give better each

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: time there was always some new little piece of information or hey observation Jeremy need to look

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: out for this or hey I want to see you try to improve on this type of skill a lot of times

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: asking better questions and so he really told me about the value of asking good questions and so

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's you know that's the the reason why I'm saying he was a good sales manager really

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: stood out from a lot of the rest and a lot of those expect experiences that people have is just

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: understanding the realities of the sales world itself but also understanding that as a sales

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: manager it's about coaching it's not about going and doing sure he was there to help and and provide

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: support whenever needed because yeah there's times where you need somebody else in the boat with you

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got a very challenging situation and you don't need to be on an island but it wasn't like

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: he was reaching and grabbing saying let me do this or you let me do that for you and so I think that alone

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: of itself is a big problem today but I didn't experience that and I think that's what made it a really

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: good experience to make him a really good sales manager yeah from from my perspective and sales management

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean you have to be we're not really managing people as much as we're managing a process in

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_01]: expectations and if you clear about the expectations then we're really just looking at the behaviors

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: in mindset of the sales people are they doing the right things on a consistent basis but

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as a sales manager it's our role to to provide that coaching I mean I 60 60 70 percent

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: of our time should be asking questions to help that individual understand something

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: realize it for themselves and come to a conclusion because once you once you get there on your own

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you own that answer and it sticks with you and if I give you the answer every time

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't really own it you got through it's like cheap and unhomorke when you're in school

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think that that idea of coaching and a lot of sales people sales manager suck because they

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: don't know how to coach and there's lots of ways to coach and there's lots of frameworks around it

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but in its at its core it's like good sales good salesmanship is asking the right questions

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: at the right time and getting that individual whether it be a prospect or a salesperson to self-discuss

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: is that I agree with you on the the maybe not knowing how to coach to a certain extent but I don't

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: think there's a lot of organizations that give sales managers room to coach I think there's such

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: a focus on the numbers and all the analytics part of it that we missed the part about developing

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: like you said the behaviors to habits the actions that you need to take day in and day out

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: if you focus on those fundamentals and getting those right then you're going to produce at

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that five star level you're going to hit your revenue target you're going to your margins are

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be better because you have those behaviors in place it's a lot of like what I tell my

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: son you know he plays basketball and so many people are focused on the flashy play but the

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: consistent performance and I think sales is the same way if you know yes we all want to make

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: the money we want to hit our revenue targets if you're a publicly traded company sure you

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: got to do that your stock price for your stock your stock holders but at the same time

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you've also got to be able to take a step back and say what's going to get us there in a more

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: efficient manner or you can systemally produce these high-level results whether we're publicly traded

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: or not so I agree with you in one sense but I think there's an end to that to add all talk

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: now here that's a valid point but as an individual producer as a sales person

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we're running around little business within the business and we need to be entrepreneurial we

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: need to look out for ourselves and I don't think that changes as a sales manager we we need to be able

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: to stand our ground not just with our team but also with management and leadership that when they say

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: we should do X we should have the ability to push back and say you know chilling out another report

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: just isn't going to produce the result we want it's not information that we lack it's that we

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you know if you can take an existing opportunity and talk through what was done and what could have

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: been done differently what was done well right and what do we need to change and then we can apply that

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to the next opportunity like how is this different than the last one right and we the the

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: start to get connected so I think the sales managers who sticks their head in a CRM and looks at reports

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is missing the boat really should be time spent with that purposeful time spent with a sales

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: person and there's different types of coaching right we're talk about pipeline reviews we talk about

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: coaching deals talk about getting preped pre-call plans and post call de-briefs and these are

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: all just some simple forms of engagement and you mentioned basketball and your son and footwork

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and the fundamentals and learning how to dribble and going left and going right got to have the

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: fundamentals and we have to practice those but we all interested in the flashy 3.shot that you know

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: those out at the buzzer but it's those fundamentals that get us there and if we're not practicing those

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: then we're losing we're losing ground and that's where the breakdown of connecting sports and

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: athletics falls apart because athletes whether they be a high school kid playing basketball or

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: a college kid playing basketball they expect to be coached they expect to be drilled they expect

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to have processes in place to get better they expect to go into the weight room they might not

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like it all the time but they know that's part of the process and I think sales people who are average

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: or less really don't want to practice and they don't want to have those kinds of coaching

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: conversations and look introspectively and you know they're blaming outside reasons and that's a

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a big piece of of what a sales manager needs to be able to do is to kind of bring them

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: into this coaching mindset and some people are not coachable and that happens in your you

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: probably can look at your your son's basketball team and know who's really coachable and who isn't

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and the ones that are coachable or you know they might not be the best person on the most talented

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but they're going to get better and eventually they'll surpass the kids talent at some point right

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah telling the loan I don't think is going to is going to carry the day it's a short term

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: short term win for you but backing up to what you said you know about you know this idea of people

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: being coached and this this culture of it I think that's why we see people that are

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: get frustrated and don't want to participate in it as because it's been going on for so long

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just been about you know like you said pipe line reviews what did you put in the CRM

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: what your call log look like instead of stepping back and going all the way to the foundation to say

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: okay here's your territory you know what's the key targets what are the what are the areas

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: or people we need to call on is going to build us a long term foundation upon which we can

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: grow that revenue and we can establish a solid pipeline of business so even just something as simple

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: as that to start out with but I think people get frustrated because it's all about

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: doing these little um is a little task and it's like we've turned sales people into a

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: administrative assistance of sorts because how much data can you put in the CRM and I you know

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: again I think that's a big part of it and you know business owners out there if they want to

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: change that then they've got to change those fundamentals like we talked about first and then

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you get to the point where the numbers come where the winds come it just it does happen overnight

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm sure you will know well it doesn't um that the the fundamentals I think

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it's sort of like that that triangle um the base of a triangle is is your mindset right

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is this person wired up to be successful or they're competitive do they have this drive to get

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: better do they have the desire and commitment and then you know one of the other sides of the

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: triangle is are they are they doing the behaviors are they thought doing the activities that

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: are necessary for that role and every role is different right sales cycles are different

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: customers are different so we have to approach it based on the right right behaviors and what we're

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: matters and then the other side of the triangle is the technique right we're following a process

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the methodology where we are we coaching on those little those techniques and you know you know

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: we work together and there's a lot of things that I don't have to be worried about

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: like as a sales manager I don't worry about where you going what are you doing like I don't

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't look at call logs I don't look at those things I know that's what you're doing I know

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it's to me it's it's we got a meet that salesperson where they are right and you know sometimes

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it's about just listening because you had a crappy couple of calls and things didn't go anywhere

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: okay that happens but it's making sure that we're providing the right support for that salesperson

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you got four salespeople you're going to have you know probably six different things

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you need to deal with because that same that same salesperson isn't the same person on Tuesday as they are

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Friday right and you got to go gotta go meet with them where they are it's trying to figure that out

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and that takes a minute but that's why sales is in sales management have overlapped

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_01]: is we got to be able to read the prospect we got to be able to read a customer and sales managers

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: customers are the salespeople and you know what can we do to help them take it to the next level

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you ever dealt with a salesperson who just didn't want to do the things that were necessary

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: does that have been a challenge in your sales management career?

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I mean you know it's just like again you you have these habits to get built up and

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know yeah I've dealt with challenging individuals who just say you know this is where we've always

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: done it you know that mindset I mean it's goes for individuals and goes for companies

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: some a lot of people get into that so why we've always done it we're not going to change

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: even despite being shown hey here's a here's a way that you can grow and be more efficient

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in your sales role but hey this is the way I've done it I've been successful doing it this

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: way I don't need to change I think it goes back to like you said the mindset do they want to get

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: better or are they just satisfied with the status quo and if you're just satisfied you're really

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: going to get left behind I mean sales is hard sales is challenging there's competition no matter

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: what industry you're in doesn't doesn't matter you're going to have competition at various levels

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got to be looking to see how you can get better because you know sales is evolving

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: businesses evolving I mean a lot of it's being driven by technology so just like what you and I are

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: doing here talking I mean 20 30 years ago this wasn't a thing but now it is and it's a part of

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: sales and business development too video is becoming a huge part of it so even something as simple

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: as that example shows you the need to get better and so I think you know you work with an

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: individuals as long as you can but at some point there has to be a decision like if they continue

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to bug the system and say hey we're not going to we're not going to improve or they're fighting

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: on everything the maybe it's time to say hey maybe you need to be in a different place you hate

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: to yeah you have to do that but you know you have to as a sales manager I think you have to

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: really understand the company values too what's the company culture what are the values

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: what are things that we believe in and does the individual you know meet those can at least

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of majority of them and so if you get somebody like that it's a mismatch then you got to figure

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: out either they're going to be able to adapt or you're going to have to make a change but yeah it's

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it's tough and you know I've had to be a part of making a change but also seeing people adapt

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and get better too so there are those those opportunities hey I want to tell you about a project

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that I started called sales velocity it's a weekly email that comes out early on a Monday before

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the shit hits the fan and what is it it's just sales tips it's for that but that business owner

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that CEO that sales leader is looking for a little tip to kind of inspire them for the week an idea

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that they might be able to try to implement it's very simple it tells a bunch of stories about me

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: things I've screwed up along the way some successes all you have to do is go down into the show notes

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and click on the sales velocity link and you can sign up and you'll they'll pop in your email

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Monday morning just once a week thank those are rewarding when you watch somebody

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: make that shift to me that's the rewarding part of it

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: it's you know like they realize that there is there is a there was success and that to me is

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: really the really rewarding part and I think that's even more valuable than we all want to get paid right

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: so I'm not going to make that but it's the thing that kind of puts the giddy up in your

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: stop as a sales manager when you see somebody you know take that stride forward I don't know

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it motivates me to keep after it once I see somebody take that first stride because then they

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: get that momentum going and it's hard hard for them to slow down because it starts to feed itself

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I would submit you that the people that are the biggest partners are the ones that have

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: been the ones that are willing and open to learn and get better every day if it's just something

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: very small and so I think if you want to get paid you've got to ask yourself what that

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: what the steps look like to get there and the first thing is just being open to getting better

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and seeing how you need to adapt it's a life-long journey learning is learning doesn't stop

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: at great school or if you went to college doesn't stop at college either it's an everyday

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: thing and I think that goes back to what you're talking about mindset yeah it's 100% there's

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: our DNA or sales DNA you know all the stuff that goes on between our ears but then there's

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: some stuff and just how we're wired up if we don't have that drive and we don't have that commitment

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: then we're in the wrong space and I think everybody's cut out for sales because it is hard

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's no different than like my wife's an auditor and you know a CPA and a forensic

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff and I think shoot me I couldn't do that but you know I think if she tried she could

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: she could sell and you know she was a partner at a CPA firm so that's required right

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: to maintain a partnership you've got to bring in business so but it's not it's not always

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: strength and it's something that we need to work at so I mean the perspective is

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: our perspective is similar you had a you had an opportunity to work with a sales manager

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to have what it felt like they have the support you need and I don't I'm not sure that everybody

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that everybody said I know I didn't as I was coming up I had mentors I had guys it own

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: businesses that would would talk through things and would understand but from a sales perspective

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: they didn't have that coaching ability and I think that's something that we we should seek out

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's plenty of opportunities in social media that's kind of where I wanted to go next

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: where you're your active on social media you talk about leadership and certain values

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you see that playing into your personal brand and how you think about sales and how

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you deliver your your approach to sales. I mean I see it as service is the the foundation

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that's the foundation whether you're an individual contributor or producer or

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the sales manager that idea of service first you know we've all got talents and abilities but it's

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: not to to self-service to serve others and that to me is where you find the greatest joy so

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I tell I approach you know my life my career and I think that's how you approach leadership too so

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it all ties in together with that and you know I think the other part of the two is the purpose

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: part of it and I think like you mentioned earlier not everybody's cut out for it so you really have to ask

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: yourself if you're out there and you think sales is a career for you if you're just getting into the

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: working world it is is finding where your talents and abilities and your passion line up together because

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: that's where you're going to be locked in the getting better every day it's really hard to just say

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you know to draw a wheel power and say hey I'm just going to get better that really that purpose

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and that passion element has got to be there because that ties back to your talents and abilities

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and my humble opinion and I think when you get those things aligned that's where the long-term success

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: comes and that success part of it yeah could definitely be monetary for you so I think that's

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: thing the service element to it but also the purpose part of it and I think those two things really

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: guide me in my role and it's things I like to encourage people about too because again I found that

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that's where my success has come from is in those two elements but your your purpose is

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: how you live your life and it's how you you know you know work with your family right

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: you're you and your wife for leading a family and you you you'll lead each other and you're

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: leading yourself in a sales role and you know in other roles in your in your your life

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it's it's a common theme of having a purpose and to to be a leader and if you don't have that

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and and as a younger age you might not right so is there any advice to somebody who's

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to figure that out what their purpose is or is that's just something that kind of comes to

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you one day I don't think it comes to you necessarily one day I think you've got to look at it

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: as a journey and to me it's a lifelong journey so yeah I feel like I'm locked into where I'm at

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: my purpose but I'm learning new things every single day and how to how to be better how to

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: be more tuned to that don't think you ever get to a point your life or just all collection you're

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: 100% everything's golden I think there's always room to get better but my advice would be

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: talking to people that are in a role that you think you might you know be interested in really sitting

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: down and taking time to think you mentioned this earlier about people thinking and you know just

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: instead of just going and doing I think that's a critical part of for all of this no matter what

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: role would industry we're trying to go into seeing down and thinking about what am I good at what's

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: what really drives me what what get what am I passionate about you know what are my skills and

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: abilities that could be applied and then you know once you start to get that some kind of picture

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not going to be perfect but then you start to look at different areas different companies

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: different industries where those skills are in demand or could be applied maybe it's a new idea

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: where you could bring something you need to the marketplace and I think that's a good place to

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: start and from there it's just surrounding yourself with people that are good mentors that have

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: your best interest that are they're not interested in coaching you in a way that the benefits them

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: you know quote unquote paid but they're really interested in your and your best interest

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think once you surround yourself with that and you continue to make good quality connections

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: out there in the world you have that coaching you have that council you have those connections

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that's how you really start to get momentum of building your purpose so that would be my

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: life to somebody but I caution them don't think there's a moment where you just arrive

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and it all fits like a great puzzle together because I don't think you find that I think life is

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: is a journey and you got to continuously continue or find that and so that'd be my best advice

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what's will will will spoken I think it's it evolves and it doesn't

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you have your virtues you have your guiding principles right whatever those are

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and that those should be your guardrails but I hear too many people like you know follow your passion

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: you know as you graduate these these you know halls of university that just follow your passion

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think the people that say that are people that already have made a bunch of money in our

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: successful and it's sort of false guidance right because some of these people have

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: made money and things that aren't something we would be passionate about you know

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Bezos started with selling books right was that his passion I don't I don't know technology

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: might have been something that he kind of went into but I think it's finding something that we

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: enjoy enough to get better at it we can learn from right and look at your skills

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you know those those 20 somethings that you know my daughter just graduated college and

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know I'm like don't take a job just to have a job

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not you're you're gonna waste part of your life you're gonna you're gonna

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: treat yourself but you know I need to make a living that yes you do but don't just take a job

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: to get a job look look for something that is of interest to you something that you can

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you can make a move from or that you can spend some time at and figure out if this is a place

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: where you want to be but if you're always looking at that and contemplating you will continue to get

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: looking better and I didn't talk her out of a sales job at an insurance company

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I just asked questions right but I did ask her the same question

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that I didn't say it to me it was a guy I respected and I was I was thinking about taking a role with

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: met life this is maybe 30 years ago insurance guy right and the guy that I was interviewing with was

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you know when when I say insurance guy if you closed your eyes and you thought of an insurance guy

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you would see this guy kind of bald kind of chubby white shirt short sleeve tie that I swear was a clip on

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: pocket protector with a bunch of pens and pencils right that was this guy

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: very successful a good man principal right so I had that image in my head and I was talking to

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: this guy there was a mentor and he's like you know you could take the job and you'll do really

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: well and you'll make lots of money but if you ask yourself what you would think of yourself if

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you were a sales an insurance salesman and I'm like dammit. As soon as I said that I couldn't

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: make that leap right I mean it wasn't just about money it was about I have to believe in what I'm

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_01]: what I'm working with. I have to believe that there's some value there and not that

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: insurance is valuable or isn't necessary but that image was not something that was

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: conducive to my being happy and I think there's a low bar to get in the sales

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's often a low bar to stay and that's what I want to change is elevating the

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: profession so that we're raising that bar on a consistent basis so what it means to be a

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: good solid salesperson who's not just selling something and pitching they're richly trying to

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah money's fleeting and I know some people will probably boo that comment but just think about it

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you get you make a certain level of money you know you're probably this way coming out of school

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I I had a drive and thought I could you know thought I should be making a certain level

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: but you get to that level and then again it's that that lasts for just a second but then all

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: sudden oh I need to get to this level and it's just never ending but you know what you said earlier

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: about passion I think it's dangerous if you just focus all passion because we're passionate about

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of different things but that passion a lot of times for these many things that we

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: enjoy is really only surface level we've got to ask ourselves what's that deeper passion

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that thing that really excites me I think that's where your passion and skills and abilities

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: intersect that's the point of purpose and those gifts you know I think gifts to me is an acronym

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_00]: given in full to serve is what I think gifts stand for you got those gifts work you put them into

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: use to serve other people and you know where where's that service and that passion intersecting

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: with each other that's the critical point I mean I'm passionate about college basketball

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but I skills and abilities didn't take me to play at the collegiate level I would love to

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's just not that's not where they they met I'm passionate about it but following that

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_00]: not for me you can root for Auburn and be excited and passionate about it absolutely right exactly so

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I just caution people don't just follow your passions and don't compare yourself to somebody else

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_00]: because they've got a different situation you mentioned Bayzos and Amazon I mean that you know

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: just because somebody is successful it's something you can't compare yourself to that you've

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: unique opportunities you've got unique skill sets that can be applied various ways and you can

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: still be highly successful and you can reap the rewards of that but if you don't figure that purpose

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: part out first that true off any purpose then you're going to be miserable that money is only

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_00]: going to make you happy for so long and then it's just going to be a disaster you're going to be miserable

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean if you want to compare yourself to somebody compare yourself to who you were yesterday

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: right and then and see if you can't get it just a little smidge better that's hard to really

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: hard of looking into mirrors hard but I think you know when I'm hoping people take away from this

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation is sales is hard but if you don't have this mindset and a willingness to get better

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you're simply not you're simply not going to perform at the level you need to perform

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and that you do need these other these other principles and purpose to to get you there

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and and be on the lookout right it use you use the word journey it is a journey because it'll

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: more fun change but it'll be guided if you have have the principles and you have some

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: stability in your life but you don't have to figure it all out tomorrow you're going to you're going

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to figure it out and I think looking at the rocking chair test is like when you're when you're that

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: old guy sitting on it in the rocking chair on the porch you're looking back at your life right

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what do you feel good about and and did you did you do something that had added value

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because once we're gone there's not a lot they're left for most people right we don't have

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that impact on the world but did we impact those people that we touched in a significant way and I

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: think that's what so you know listening to you talk this this is what makes you a solid sales

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: person this is what makes you you know a solid sales manager is that drive in that purpose so I

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: share in your thoughts um I'll thank you God I'm sorry I've enjoyed the conversation

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: last question past your present any relationship with cigars not directly but I do remember

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: growing up there was a local mall not too far from where I live and my mom used to go to my

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: bars or smoking pipes the pipes in particular to smell that tobacco and some of them smell pretty good

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: every time I go to a mall now it seems like that memory kind of comes back or somebody's

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: smoking a cigar I think back to those those times of walking around that mall with my mom and dad

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking about those those younger years those carefree days right so that's where they spoke

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: in the mall or outside the mall no this was in the mall this was probably like

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: mid-80s I was born in 1980 but yeah so it was like mid the mid-80s roughly so

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the good old days as some might say yes absolutely

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the 80s were a a special time right you were five or six years old okay so it's not

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: graduated college in 87 and you know to me and I went to New York immediately after I graduated

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: so you know the 80s were about fast pace and this you know bad hair and weird clothes but it was

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: it and music right but every generation has their other thing with music but I mean you were

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: allowed to you had more freedoms to do things without getting you know I can't I haven't played golf

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: in a long time but I got a lady was playing behind us with her husband and we were waiting

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: on a T-box and they drove up and you know how you wait for the people to clear the team before

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you even drive up that's right she got out of her cart and walked over to the T-box

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and said sir and you know I like looked in my buddies and I looked and she's like you're bothering

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what she was you you're smoking a cigar and that's bothering me and I like well that seems fair

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_01]: wow was that fair I'm like well you're bothering me

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that you've walked all the way over here

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's tell me that he didn't like my cigar I understand go back to your cart I mean you'll be fine

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: we're out of your mind towards too how how much could it be bothering I mean it's not like you're

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_00]: cooped up in a in a restaurant or something like that look we used to right there was a smoking

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: section in a restaurant that the business owner could decide to have or not have and people had

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to decide why don't want to sit there's too close to the smoking section okay that was the first

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you know when you went to a restaurant you know when you talked to the you know to the

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: person you know taking reservations you know the hostess you know smoking or not smoking which

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_00]: where do you want to sit that was just standard standard questions that you got so

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: on an airplane and an elevator right those are all things too so yeah I'm not saying I'm not

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_01]: advocating for smoking an elevator on an airplane and I think there's some reasonableness to what you

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: know we should understand in our art we've gotten smarter about what what we should be doing

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: around other people but I'm sorry I'm on a golf course but there's our husband came over and

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like honey honey this come back to the cart I'll bet you'll eat the nice man alone

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: oh wow we show a bad for him but but I've always tried to be respectful around people right if

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you know even in my own house I don't smoke cigars in my house my wife would kill me right and I don't

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: like that stale smell but on my deck of the cigar and in my office I have cigars

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you don't like it I can get off my property go back to your own office

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly I even had somebody like you know you really smoke a cigar on a video call

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah has it bothering you well and then they had to realize that they didn't like the idea but

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it wasn't really affecting them yeah so I say all that good old days in the 80s right when we

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: could do some stuff that wasn't considered a complete catastrophe for the other people in the

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: general vicinity so there's a certain part of that I I I I miss all that there is more important

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: things in life in those days I would I would venture to say yeah having a have having a

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: meal and spending time with friends and having a purpose so I thank Sarah appreciate appreciate

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the insights this accomplished exactly what I was looking for thanks man thanks for the time

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Walter appreciate the invite