Sales & Cigars | The Power of Coaching with Brent Long | Episode 191

[00:00:01] Hey everybody, Walter Crosby with Healy Sales Development, your host of Sales and Cigars.

[00:00:06] Today's episode is with a friend of mine, Brent Long.

[00:00:10] Brent is a football coach. He's a life coach. He's a sales coach.

[00:00:18] He owns a retreat.

[00:00:21] He dropped so many nuggets today, folks.

[00:00:24] If you're a CEO, if you're sitting in a sales seat in any capacity,

[00:00:29] go get a notebook and pay attention.

[00:00:32] He talks about the three E's of what a sales leader, what a CEO needs to do to change their culture.

[00:00:40] We talk about what's necessary to create that performance mindset, that performance outcomes for our sales team.

[00:00:50] It's just chock full of great stories and fun times.

[00:00:56] Brent, I've met going to a cigar event in Columbus, Ohio through a friend of mine.

[00:01:05] We've become friends and he's just a dynamic guy with just a great family life and an outlook on life.

[00:01:14] So go grab a cigar, grab a cocktail, strap in for another fun episode of sales and cigars.

[00:01:20] Thanks.

[00:01:35] So Brent, welcome to the podcast. I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule.

[00:01:41] Delighted to be here. Absolutely. Thanks, Water, for the invite.

[00:01:44] Yeah, it's...

[00:01:46] We met...

[00:01:49] I don't know, we met at the...

[00:01:52] Ed calls it the sales and cigars event.

[00:01:57] He accuses me of stealing his name and I accuse him of stealing the name for the podcast.

[00:02:02] But I think I've been doing this longer.

[00:02:05] So I know you're a cigar guy and we'll get to that.

[00:02:12] But I'd like to start off a little bit differently than I normally do.

[00:02:19] You have a cool...

[00:02:21] We call it retreat, but I'd love for you to...

[00:02:24] I think that kind of sets up how you think and I think it talks a little bit about what your philosophy is.

[00:02:33] So can you share a little bit about the retreat, what it's for, who you want to show up there and why?

[00:02:40] Oh yeah, sure. Thanks for asking.

[00:02:42] Yeah, as you know, I've been a coach of some sort since 1985.

[00:02:47] I coached football for a couple years, had a couple back surgeries.

[00:02:51] I spent a little bit of time at a Division I football program.

[00:02:55] I'm working as a manager, working with some coaches there.

[00:02:58] I spent about 15 years after that coaching football off and on.

[00:03:02] One of the things that I learned with all levels of high performing people is that they have a coach who helps them call a strategic timeout.

[00:03:11] And that strategic timeout is geared to refocus them.

[00:03:15] Let them take a couple deep breaths, share a little bit about what they're seeing going on out on the field.

[00:03:19] And make the adjustments to put them back into game so they can continue and sustain at high performance.

[00:03:25] And so we have a property, 32-acre property called Long Haven Retreat outside of Lancaster, Ohio, southeast of Columbus, Ohio.

[00:03:33] And that's what it's for. It's to bring people out of the busyness of high performance, give them a productive rest.

[00:03:40] I don't believe in rest, meaning just sitting on the couch.

[00:03:42] I mean, let's work at resting so that we can get better at taking a deep breath, refocusing our energies and going back out and serving people at a very, very high level.

[00:03:52] And that's what the whole property is built around that.

[00:03:57] And business owners, VPs of sales, moms and dads, I've had pastors come out and spend several days out here just unplugged from everything

[00:04:07] and walking on the property and fishing just to get refocused back on what they're supposed to be doing in the marketplace.

[00:04:17] The idea of unplugging is scary to some people, but I think what you're offering and what you're really talking about is that we need that little break from all of the insanity.

[00:04:32] And like you said, you don't want to sit on the couch. There's nothing wrong with sitting on the deck and having a cocktail and talking with your friends and talking through some things.

[00:04:42] That's a bit of relaxation and clarity. But moving your body, moving your mind when you're focusing on something other than your passion, your business or whatever, it clears up the other areas to really allow you to work more efficiently and effectively in what your real purpose is.

[00:05:03] Absolutely. I mean, here's an example, Walter. I have a football team that I used to coach. It's a high school level football team. I own, I actually own 27 shovels.

[00:05:15] Right? I have 27 shovels in my little shed. Okay. And so the team literally rents the property before training camp starts.

[00:05:24] They come out, they bring their, their upperclassmen, they bring all the team out to the property. And I teach those young men how to learn to trust each other while they're digging holes on the property.

[00:05:36] Interesting.

[00:05:37] They do, they do that before they start camp.

[00:05:40] Now, I'm not saying it's what I'm doing. I'm saying it's what they're doing to put forth the effort to learn how to work with a brother, trust a brother, put forth effort with a brother and then get ready to go trust that brother in the trenches as they play an entire season of football, of which the last two years they have won their league championship.

[00:06:03] So the shovels help.

[00:06:04] They're the shovels help. Absolutely right. The shovels help a lot. My dad used to say, if you can shovel manure, you can provide for your family because both livestock and people create a lot of it.

[00:06:16] Yeah, this is, this is true.

[00:06:18] It's true.

[00:06:21] And it may not be the most pleasant job, but it does.

[00:06:25] It gets you.

[00:06:27] But I mean, and I think there's, you know, athletics and sales has a is often connected.

[00:06:35] And I'd like your take on this, because there are a lot of parallels.

[00:06:40] But, you know, you talk about football, you talk about any team sport.

[00:06:48] The when you when you get to a certain level of a of an athletic team, you know, it's even the little kids, the Peewees, all the way up to professionals who are making millions of dollars.

[00:07:04] The big difference between those folks and salespeople who are making millions of dollars or ones that are just Peewees starting out is that those athletes expect to be coached.

[00:07:19] And it is rare when you find a salesperson who is open to it, let alone expects it and demands to be like I need you to help me get better.

[00:07:35] Am I all wet on that? Is that something you noticed or?

[00:07:38] Oh, no. You are you are speaking my love language really because last 30 years again, I was a coach. I was an athletic coach.

[00:07:47] One thing that I learned as an athletic coach is everybody's good while they're reading a book about playing the sport that they want to play.

[00:07:54] But until they are willing to practice and willing to have somebody help them improve performance, meaning they have to have some kind of behavior that is coachable, right?

[00:08:05] Then they don't make improvement. They may know a lot about stuff, but my coach used to say until you put the pad, everybody's good until you put the pads on.

[00:08:14] Everybody knows how to score a touchdown. Everybody knows how to make a sales call. Everybody knows how to make a sale.

[00:08:21] But do you have the practiced coached up behaviors that actually walk you through the game plan before you show up and throw up?

[00:08:30] And unfortunately, the marketplace is still prevalently encouraging people to just show up and they don't have to work hard at it. They don't have to practice.

[00:08:41] And you know, people like you and me, we want to change that.

[00:08:44] Well, I mean, the goal, I mean, my brand, your brand, what we represent, we're trying to elevate the sales profession and fill those gaps that we know exist because we went through those.

[00:09:00] I wasn't the elite athlete. I wasn't the elite athletic coach that you were and you experienced some great coaching as you were growing.

[00:09:15] But once I reached a certain level as a professional, it's like, I don't know what I'm doing here.

[00:09:21] You know, it's I mean, I can get to a certain point. But if I wanted to elevate, I needed to keep going and getting practice.

[00:09:29] And there were times where I was paying for things out of my pocket and I still have coaches.

[00:09:35] Yeah, today that I pay to help me get better.

[00:09:39] And but as that average salesperson, you know, they look to their sales manager for help and that sales manager takes over right instead of trying to make the hero.

[00:09:53] They become the hero.

[00:09:55] And that doesn't teach that salesperson anything.

[00:09:58] Now, in unfortunately, a lot of the metrics that are measured in the marketplace make that sales manager have to be somebody who only pays attention to numbers and they're not paying attention to behavior or the the heart that's in each individual activity.

[00:10:16] You know, that that that perpetuates the problem.

[00:10:22] So it makes the point I was looking to make and we can get into metrics and talk about like how you measure behaviors and attitudes.

[00:10:33] But it to me, it's like the salespeople have responsibility right out there trying to do something you should be trying to do as best as you can.

[00:10:42] Amen.

[00:10:44] And that's the best way to increase your quality of life. That's the best way to earn more money.

[00:10:51] Even if even if your current boss doesn't notice it, somebody else will eventually it always pays off.

[00:11:00] I mean, there's some patience about but that business owner that CEO that senior sales leader, they're the ones that need to step up and fill that fill that gap.

[00:11:12] And and provide them. I mean, there's lots of ways to do it but just the basic essentials.

[00:11:18] I mean, I put it at the feet of the sales individual, but really the change this really starts at the top, you know, with that leadership position.

[00:11:30] Agreed.

[00:11:30] Agreed.

[00:11:31] I think this is the analogy that I've used most of my life in this space is the Olympics are getting ready to start right?

[00:11:38] So we have, we literally have on display the world's greatest athletes in their chosen your chosen event.

[00:11:47] They are they are the best at everybody in the world.

[00:11:52] Every one of those athletes has a coach or multiple coaches.

[00:11:57] Some of them have a coach just to keep their head in the game.

[00:12:00] Some of them have a coach to keep their fundamental behaviors and mechanics in the game.

[00:12:04] Some of them have a coach to keep their diet the way it needs to be.

[00:12:08] But they all have at least one coach.

[00:12:11] Most of them have access to multiple coaches.

[00:12:14] If their team doesn't provide individual coaching, they actually hire an individual coach too.

[00:12:20] They are the best at what they do and they are continuing to work to keep their competitive edge as an athlete.

[00:12:29] Now, why don't sales people do that?

[00:12:33] Oftentimes sales people don't do that because they're looking at leadership to provide that for them.

[00:12:38] And they're forgetting what you just said is that I as the individual am culpable for my own potential.

[00:12:45] I'm responsible for it.

[00:12:46] Have I tapped into my full potential now?

[00:12:50] And if I haven't, why would I make the company do that to me for me?

[00:12:54] Why don't I take that ownership myself?

[00:12:57] It's as simple sometimes as reading a chapter in a book and then trying to go apply that or talking to other people about, hey, I'm trying this thing.

[00:13:09] Have you ever done this?

[00:13:10] And then that starts them down that path.

[00:13:17] Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best basketball players to ever put on a pair of shorts.

[00:13:23] Yeah.

[00:13:23] He had some great coaches throughout his life, but he paid another guy to help him elevate above everybody else.

[00:13:36] Absolutely.

[00:13:37] And he had resources obviously, but he didn't have to do that.

[00:13:41] No.

[00:13:42] He really busted his ass to get better when he was at the top of his game.

[00:13:48] Right.

[00:13:48] And you can also watch him in practice.

[00:13:51] There's video of him in practice, right?

[00:13:53] You can watch him in practice as a champion still being wanting to win the sprint, still wanting to win the conditioning battle, still leading from the front, leading as an example of like, I'm going to be the best that I can be in the seat that I'm in.

[00:14:08] And if you have an individual that's like that, that's awesome.

[00:14:11] If you have a team of people like that, that's amazing.

[00:14:15] And I think that's one of the things that people like you and me, we run into a lot.

[00:14:20] There may be one or two people out there like that on an occasional basis, but to find a team that has a leader and the individuals of the team who all kind of think that way, like we have yet to tap into our full potential.

[00:14:34] So I'm going to wake up tomorrow with the heart to serve more people and I'm going to make one more dial.

[00:14:39] And I'm going to practice a little bit more and I'm going to call my buddy and we're going to rehearse this call before either one of us go out on.

[00:14:47] We don't see it and there's lots of theories and I don't think it just boils down to people being lazy.

[00:14:55] No.

[00:14:56] There is a low bar to entry into sales.

[00:15:01] Luckily for me, that's where I went because the bar was relatively low.

[00:15:07] And but once you're in the door, it becomes that like you said, you have to take that responsibility on and like, wow, I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:15:16] I need some help here.

[00:15:18] Talk to people go to the guy that's got the gray hair.

[00:15:22] Go to the person in the corner office. Try to convince them to give you a minute to figure out what the, you know, something that they're doing that you could emulate.

[00:15:32] There's plenty to do that doesn't that doesn't cost the resources.

[00:15:38] I mean, there are, you know, you can go faster if you get yourself a coach and you can stay elevated if you get yourself coach.

[00:15:47] But I'm saddened and glad that I'm not the only one who sees that.

[00:15:56] It's not just I'm working with struggling teams, but it's a commonplace.

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:02] Well, and the fun thing water for me is I can I remember the day that I woke up thinking like this quite honestly, it was a light bulb changed in my brain is like, I know I'm weird.

[00:16:12] I know that I'm weird.

[00:16:13] I want to be the best that I can be.

[00:16:16] I know that I'm weird, but I'm also going to wake up and pursue a pursue a group of people in a particular space in the industry sales, the sales profession.

[00:16:25] I call it a profession who are all of them for the most part hate the stereotypes of sales yet they're they're one of those people.

[00:16:34] So they're trying to escape the stereotype, but they're so focused on the stereotype that they forgot what it looks like to put forth the effort to become a superstar.

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:43] And so they're trying to get away from they can you know, many of these people can't even put the word sales on their business card because of the connotations around and the stereotypes around the concept of sales.

[00:16:54] Well, then let's just change that.

[00:16:57] But based on the work that you put in to become a servant to that person that you're calling on so that you can get paid a really, really nice commission job.

[00:17:06] Yeah, you got to be there's the great thing about sales is that it's always the same and always different.

[00:17:17] Right.

[00:17:17] There's always a challenge there.

[00:17:19] There's always like this detective work that you need to do.

[00:17:22] There's this expertise that you need to bring to each one of your conversations that curiosity. I talk about a sales conversation is about curiosity.

[00:17:34] It's about empathy and it's about a little skepticism or like why are you doing that if it's never worked? Why do you keep doing it?

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:46] And that ability to the balance, the persistence with pain in the ass and everybody thinks that they just go pitch and I like guys that is you want to be different. You want to have success sound different act different.

[00:18:03] Yeah.

[00:18:03] I mean, even the guy that I remember I interviewed one time with a very successful insurance guy.

[00:18:13] So if you closed your eyes and said what is that insurance guy look like?

[00:18:18] You know, the typical stereotypical insurance guy.

[00:18:22] You saw this man or I swear was a clip on white short sleeve shirt.

[00:18:33] Pocket protector with with pencils and pens both.

[00:18:38] Right.

[00:18:38] And the conservative tie that it was just a skew enough and the shirt was just rumpled enough. Right.

[00:18:46] And he was short squat and kind of thinning on the top.

[00:18:50] And I, you know, I remember like I could have made a lot of money and with that company and I could have been successful.

[00:18:58] But damn, I would have been an insurance guy.

[00:19:01] And I and to your point that stereotype.

[00:19:05] If we let that get in our way.

[00:19:09] And it's up to us to be different. It's up to us.

[00:19:12] And out and it is so easy to do these days.

[00:19:15] It's so easy to stand out and be be credible and ask good questions and you know, come to the party knowing more about their problems than then they think you do.

[00:19:28] Amen. Yeah.

[00:19:29] And you know, be prepared.

[00:19:31] I just just before this I put out I just did a little video, a little impromptu video where part of what I teach is the seven steps to sales excellence. Right.

[00:19:41] And so step number two is prepare for the catch.

[00:19:44] Right. We're getting ready for step number three approach the waters, but we're preparing for the catch.

[00:19:48] And I went back to do a little video and I said, don't forget to practice the one area where no one can compete with you.

[00:19:56] Well, what is that area Brent?

[00:19:57] No one can out care you. Nobody.

[00:20:00] You should not allow anyone to out compassion you to out empathize you to out care you.

[00:20:06] You should be the only one who shows up and care so much that you're willing to ask questions.

[00:20:11] Nobody else has even thought of asking, not in a condescending manipulative way, but as somebody who really, really has the humility a word that I know you like to use has the humility to find out the truth of what these people could accomplish if they just answered some questions.

[00:20:27] You know,

[00:20:29] Oh, we're doing all really doing in sales is helping people.

[00:20:34] Yeah, if we do it right.

[00:20:36] And correct.

[00:20:37] And if you believe in your product and you believe in the service, then it seems to me one would be obligated to go help as many people as possible.

[00:20:47] There you go.

[00:20:49] Which is why we need rest because that might wear us out, but we can't just rest on the couch, right?

[00:20:55] You need a shovel.

[00:20:58] We're going to talk about that next time we have a cigar together about I love it. Yeah, shovel works. So yeah, I want to switch gears a little bit.

[00:21:08] And I and I'm sure you've got some some philosophy or some some models that you follow, but you go into a new opportunity.

[00:21:20] And one of the one of the issues that we need to address is sales culture. Okay, and I think sales culture is a subset of the company culture.

[00:21:33] Right. I want my salespeople to be competitive.

[00:21:37] I want I want that sales room when there's a meeting going on. I want it to be loud.

[00:21:42] And I want to be, you know, sort of like that Italian family's dinner.

[00:21:46] Right. Everybody's picking on each other.

[00:21:50] But nobody else outside the family can pick on each other. Right? Yes. So we're going to, we're going to ride each other. We're going to be competitive.

[00:21:58] We're looking for the crown. We're looking for the, for the, for the top seat and know, but we're going to celebrate each other to win.

[00:22:05] That's to me is a great sales culture where there's a rotary and that you're in, you're in the trenches in the battles and you're helping each other out and you expect everybody else to carry their way.

[00:22:17] When they part, when that guard pulls, you know, everybody else has to do their job that running back is looking for that spot. So I don't know as much about football as you, but I know that's important.

[00:22:29] That's good. That's really good. That's good. You could be a coach yet.

[00:22:33] Yeah, no. But so if that's the mission, like where do you start? Like if there's a CEO out there right now, it's like, yeah, my sales culture is not where I need it to be.

[00:22:47] Like where do you start with that?

[00:22:49] Yeah. So, so just like, you know, you do the same thing with your, with your client base or your prospects, right? You got your A players, you got your B players, you got your C players.

[00:22:58] Do your A players know the definition of winning that's the same as yours? Okay. And are they going to be involved in helping you go find the B player and B player and bringing them up to the A level?

[00:23:09] Because here's the idea in this culture, has that CEO or that leader communicated in this culture that there will be no at leasters.

[00:23:19] There will be no at leasters. We don't have a culture of, well, I'm not the best, but at least I don't suck.

[00:23:35] Mediacrity, right?

[00:23:36] And if there's a common goal that has the same definition of winning inside of this company, then I should have the relationship with my brother that he can put his arm around me.

[00:23:43] I could put my arm around him or her, right? Brother, sister, and we are going to help each other serve well and grow and because we're on the same team.

[00:23:54] And you know, it's not me competing against that person directly. It's me competing against how good I could really be.

[00:24:01] But I need the power of the other person, which is by the way, it's a really good book to read the power of the other.

[00:24:06] I need to power the other in my life to pull out of me things that I might not want to do.

[00:24:12] So thereby, I gravitate to being an at leaster unless I have somebody else who pulls me out of that.

[00:24:18] And so one of the things that I say with my clients a lot is, I'm sorry, but if you're unwilling to do homework, you won't finish the class because I'll fire you.

[00:24:26] Because you're showing the kind of behavior that says you'll settle being an at leaster.

[00:24:34] And culture, it is not a bad thing to have a winning team.

[00:24:41] And so the idea from a culture standpoint is what is the process of using the A players to help the B players become A players?

[00:24:50] And then the that means if we have 10 A players and we have 10 B players and each one of the A players grabs one and develops one.

[00:24:58] Now we got 20 A players in no middle. Okay, now do we have any C players that 20 people could go rescue?

[00:25:07] Maybe it's interesting.

[00:25:08] And I think that comes directly from your upbringing on a farm and your upbringing on the football field.

[00:25:22] And that's a parallel that people don't make that connection.

[00:25:28] Then as a leader we got to tell those A players, we expect you to help everybody.

[00:25:37] We expect you to help bring these people along. It's part of your role because we're our team.

[00:25:43] We are team, yeah.

[00:25:45] And that in and of itself, those conversations don't typically happen.

[00:25:49] Well, but Brent, you don't understand because that's expensive and I'll just fire them.

[00:25:54] If they don't perform, I'll just fire them.

[00:25:56] Okay, well how much is that costing?

[00:25:59] That's pretty inexpensive.

[00:26:01] Yeah, it's pretty. I mean if you think $50,000 in replacing somebody is inexpensive plus the lost revenue that you're going to have when nobody's in the sea.

[00:26:10] I mean yeah, maybe you're just floating in cash but turnover can be really expensive.

[00:26:15] Turnover because we're not developing people is even more expensive.

[00:26:22] But again, what I like to talk to the business owners and CEOs about is like yeah, those guys aren't performing.

[00:26:33] Yes, they need help and yes, they could be doing more. Absolutely.

[00:26:39] What would you be doing that you're not doing?

[00:26:44] Because there you go.

[00:26:45] Because at the end of the day, it's your responsibility of everything that goes on here.

[00:26:50] Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:26:51] That's a, it doesn't always land well.

[00:26:57] Right.

[00:26:57] But it tells me early on before an engagement whether somebody has the desire and the commitment to go down that bumpy road.

[00:27:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:10] Get the show.

[00:27:10] Oh, it's really, really good. Yeah.

[00:27:12] One of the things I talk a lot about with CEOs is what I call the three E's of leadership.

[00:27:19] The three E's, right?

[00:27:21] You set the expectations so that you can influence the environment so that you can encourage the people who want to follow those two things.

[00:27:30] Right. So expectations. This is where we're going. This is what we're going to do.

[00:27:34] This is how we're going to do it. Core values, mission, vision, purpose, all that junk, right?

[00:27:38] Okay. Now, now we have that. So now you're responsible for managing the environment.

[00:27:45] Oh, you see somebody who doesn't want to adhere to the expectations and you're just going to let that go?

[00:27:51] Well, it takes a lot of time and effort to walk down the hall and lovingly confront them.

[00:27:56] Yeah. So what you're saying is that the thoroughbreds on your team are expendable because they don't want to hang around this donkey.

[00:28:03] But they don't get that. They really don't get that thoroughbred donkey thing.

[00:28:07] Correct. Right. Which means that leader will never get to the third E of being able to encourage that environment to grow.

[00:28:17] They will never be able to get there because they're always fighting fires and they're fighting fires because they haven't done the first two things.

[00:28:24] I mean, that's a really, really simple philosophy, a model for...

[00:28:31] Well, it's cause I'm not that smart. I mean, it's really what it is.

[00:28:38] Well, these guys talking, right? We're not raising the IQ of the room when we walk in, right?

[00:28:46] That's right. Exactly right.

[00:28:48] But I mean, but they're... I'm serious though. It's simple and simple as powerful.

[00:28:56] Even though it's simple, I rarely see like they don't want to take... They don't want to do the work.

[00:29:04] And they don't want to delegate the work to somebody.

[00:29:09] And it's way more powerful if that consistent message comes from the top.

[00:29:15] Oh my goodness. Yeah.

[00:29:16] Yeah, because then you see everybody starting to gravitate in the same direction that the vision leadership of the company really, truly want to go in.

[00:29:27] I mean, some of the conversations you and I've had, it might come down to what's your favorite color?

[00:29:34] Well, my favorite color is blue. Well, I'm sorry, you're not going to fit on this team.

[00:29:39] Right? Or my favorite color is red. Well, I'm sorry, we don't allow red in here.

[00:29:44] Yeah.

[00:29:44] Or whatever. Now, that's an extreme example, but if that's part of your culture, then you actually have to find the people who want that as a part of their culture and go through the pain and the effort and the work of making sure those people are able to grow to a high level performance in your culture.

[00:30:04] Don't hire somebody who's going to come along and change your winning culture into a... at least your culture.

[00:30:09] Yeah. That's so true and finding the right people, you know, I've got a hole, I got to plug it. Like no.

[00:30:21] I had that conversation a couple of weeks ago with a client.

[00:30:25] Like, you know, this space we've been vacant for like 45 days.

[00:30:29] Yeah. I get it. But you let this top performer go because you didn't encourage them, right? You didn't give them the right expectations.

[00:30:40] You allowed all these other people on his team to bring down and he like, you didn't want to associate with the dunking and use your language.

[00:30:48] So we're not going to do that. We're not going to go get a bunch of, you know, just fill in the blank people here at least for mediocrity.

[00:30:56] And if that's what you want, then good luck. Right? It's not going to work.

[00:31:02] And people like you and me, we probably would say, and if that's really what you want, then I can't... I'm not going to help you with that.

[00:31:11] I can't help you with that because I'm a coach who wants my teams to win.

[00:31:16] And if I participate in that, my concern is you're not going to win, which means I'm not going to win, which means we're not going to be winners.

[00:31:24] You know, I go back to athletics for just a second. Shershepsky at Duke, right?

[00:31:31] Yeah. I mean, I went to Michigan, never a Duke guy, like just really just respected the hell out of the program.

[00:31:39] Yeah. And the coaching and the kids. But like, I just, I wasn't a big fan of Duke, but what he did is he recruited character

[00:31:48] and recruited kids that were going to graduate, that were going to be part of a team, that he could help mold.

[00:31:55] And he had pretty high graduation rates. And he did pretty good. He did pretty well with his championships.

[00:32:06] Sure. And Saban was another guy that had standards.

[00:32:11] And it kind of talked about the way, talk about it the way you talk about it where there's like, here's our standard folks.

[00:32:19] This is what we expect. And don't jump on board unless you're willing to create that standard.

[00:32:25] And once you have that standard, then you get to remind people of that standard, you know, on a regular basis, right?

[00:32:33] That might be 27 times, you know, running a drill.

[00:32:37] But that's the standard we're trying to get to. And everybody on that team has to have that same standard.

[00:32:42] And if you don't, now, you know, that in athletics, I think there's a thing that we don't recognize because those kids for the most part want to be there.

[00:32:56] They want to get better. They want to win. They want that whatever championship trophy.

[00:33:01] Absolutely.

[00:33:01] Platitude. And, you know, you get to pick those, especially when you're a program like Alabama or Duke or...

[00:33:10] Yeah.

[00:33:12] So in sales, it's like if we don't set that standard as the leader, then you're going to get what you get and you're not going to like it.

[00:33:22] Yeah, absolutely. I had a client years ago, they paid me, I don't know, they wanted, they were doing a regional sales meeting.

[00:33:31] They had an office in Cleveland, Columbus and Detroit. And they were doing a regional sales meeting and they wanted somebody to come in to motivate the sales team.

[00:33:40] So they contracted me to come in and motivate the sales team. They sent me a check up front and I showed up.

[00:33:46] I still had the check, right? And I've got two hours. I've got two hours and I'm holding the check up.

[00:33:54] And I looked at the president and owner of the company and I literally said to him, it's not too late for me to give this back.

[00:34:02] He's like, that's how I started. And he's like, why? And I said, because nothing that I do here is going to change the motivational makeup of any of the people in this room.

[00:34:13] But I got two questions for you. And I literally asked him these two questions in front of the entire company.

[00:34:20] Were they motivated when you hired them? Yes. Because if they weren't motivated, you would have been an idiot for hiring them.

[00:34:29] Okay. If they were motivated when you hired them, what are you doing to demotivate them?

[00:34:36] And then I said, now, I know that's a pretty powerful way to start the session, but you can have your check back and we can just have the next two hours free time.

[00:34:45] Or we can stand here and talk about the behavior change that you want and they need in order to take your company to the next level.

[00:34:52] And I'm going to talk about behavior change, not motivation.

[00:34:56] And you're going to be able to tell by the end of the session who on your team wants to go in the direction that you're going and who doesn't.

[00:35:03] I'm challenging all salespeople in this room right now. Adjust your behavior. You'll keep yourself motivated.

[00:35:09] But if you can't see where he's going, motivation is not going to work at all.

[00:35:13] Right. And they let me keep the check.

[00:35:18] And then they became a client and then they became an ongoing client for the next 18 months.

[00:35:24] This is my surprise face right here.

[00:35:28] Thanks for being part of another fun episode of sales and cigars. Let me ask you a question.

[00:35:33] Are you tired of struggling to hire sales talent that's going to move the needle for your company?

[00:35:39] Well, maybe you should attend my sales hiring secrets program and discover the number one mistake that business owners are making with hiring sales talent in their organization.

[00:35:50] The details are in the show notes. Click on the page. It gives you all the details.

[00:35:55] It gives you everything you need to know to solve the problem of sales talent on your team. Thanks.

[00:36:01] You went in there and grabbed their attention.

[00:36:04] I mean, because you didn't sound like everybody else. You didn't do what they expected you to do. And you challenged them.

[00:36:15] Yeah.

[00:36:16] And if somebody is motivated and you challenge them, like you tell me I can't do something, get out of the way.

[00:36:25] Get out of the way. I'll step up and figure out a way to do it.

[00:36:28] There was a sales guy on that team and this was back in, I don't know, late nineties, early 2000s.

[00:36:33] There's a sales guy on that team who is probably doing, he's probably pulling down about 120, 130 straight commission at the time.

[00:36:41] Well, he and his wife also owned a movie theater.

[00:36:44] Right? They owned a movie theater on the side and he had a business coming in from the movie theater and he said,

[00:36:49] I just don't have time to prospect and the company won't provide for me at, you know, what we would now call an SDR.

[00:36:56] The company won't provide me a prospector. And I said, you're pulling down 120. Why don't you pay for it yourself?

[00:37:04] Well, I can't pay for that. And I says, well, let's do some math. Let's pretend that you pay an SDR 30 grand a year.

[00:37:11] You're now bringing home 90. But that 30 grand a year turns into another $100,000 in revenue commission for you because they're really doing a good job.

[00:37:21] You actually have enough money to give the SDR, the prospector a bonus and you're banking more money.

[00:37:29] He hired his own. He hired his own next year after paying everything and paying for this position out of his own pocket as a sales superstar.

[00:37:39] He was bringing in 180. The year after that he did 210.

[00:37:45] But he's willing to take the risk.

[00:37:48] And the company said, good for you. Congrats. You figured it out. We're not going to pay for that position. You pay for that position.

[00:37:57] And it was beautiful because that's what he did.

[00:37:59] But you helped guide him along. Did anybody else on that team, you know, wake up and smell the coffee?

[00:38:08] One guy I had to fire. I had to kind of gently or not so gently let him go because he kind of wanted to complain about that.

[00:38:16] He had the same opportunity that the other salesperson had, right?

[00:38:21] It came down to the fact that he never could seem to get his sales report in on time.

[00:38:25] And so I put a cultural check into the environment at that point in time.

[00:38:31] I said, for every hour that your sales report is late at your potential buyers report is late at the end of the week.

[00:38:37] You have to wait one more hour to pick up your check.

[00:38:43] And so his was late. His was so late one time coming in that he had to wait until Monday afternoon to pick up his check on a Friday.

[00:38:51] And that was kind of the last straw.

[00:38:53] Wow. Well, but that's gently letting somebody make their own decision too.

[00:38:58] Yeah, he made his own decision. Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:02] But again, again, sales is a performance initiative.

[00:39:08] So let's expect and hold lovingly hold accountable, which accountability is actually a form of love.

[00:39:15] Let's actually hold people to a standard of excellence that they say they want to get to.

[00:39:21] I support you so much that I can't wait for you to hit that standard of excellence.

[00:39:26] I'm going to be in your back pocket until you get there.

[00:39:29] Some of some of my questions may not be comfortable questions, but that's part of that's part of the accountability is sort of like growing up dealing with teenagers.

[00:39:42] It's it's, you know, I look at it as the way the way sometimes I explain it to a salesperson is we agreed to these things.

[00:39:52] We agreed that these things were going to get you those things that you really want.

[00:39:59] So I'm not okay with you not getting those things.

[00:40:05] Yeah. So what that means now is I got to, I got to be in your back pocket to use your terminology, but I got it.

[00:40:16] We got to go look at some stuff that is going to is going to make you feel uncomfortable.

[00:40:19] Well, that's my technology.

[00:40:20] No, it's helping you get to the things that you wanted to do because you had the opportunity and for the last four quarters you just haven't performed.

[00:40:31] So right. I mean, yeah, it's it's I hadn't thought about it as an act of love.

[00:40:38] But I always looked at it as a respect.

[00:40:41] You told me you wanted X and I told you I was going to help you get there and care about this more than you do.

[00:40:48] There you go. Exactly right.

[00:40:51] That that that's exactly right.

[00:40:53] I had a meeting with a prospect about, I don't know, long time ago.

[00:40:58] I'm getting old. I can't remember back that far anyway.

[00:41:02] He was having a difficult time.

[00:41:04] He was starting a real estate company having a difficult time becoming a realtor to starting a brokerage firm the whole bit.

[00:41:10] And so I somebody told him sit down with Brent and so we met at a coffee shop.

[00:41:16] We're sitting outside at a table at a coffee shop and he's kind of telling me his sob story, which is legit.

[00:41:23] I mean, it's hard, right? And it's like this is really hard.

[00:41:25] I'm thinking about going back into working at camp on a campus, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:30] And I said, can I ask you two questions?

[00:41:32] And by the way, these are going to be pretty like these are going to these questions are probably going to get you upset.

[00:41:38] But I got to ask you two questions.

[00:41:40] And he said, sure, go ahead.

[00:41:41] And I said, first of all, you said something about you felt like you were called to do this and this is your this is your job and it was your dream.

[00:41:48] And you really want to serve people as a realtor, blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:51] Yeah, I do. I really, really do. I think I think all that's true.

[00:41:54] And I said, who told you it was going to be easy?

[00:41:59] And he got mad. He got a little upset with me.

[00:42:02] And I said, good, I'm glad to see that you're upset a little bit because whoever told you that this was going to be easy was lying to you.

[00:42:12] So I'm going to tell you the truth. This is going to be the hardest thing you're ever going to do.

[00:42:16] Now, if you want to become one of my clients, I'm happy to I'm happy to help you.

[00:42:19] But I just want to tell you the truth up front.

[00:42:21] I'm going to make you do work.

[00:42:25] He is now one of the top rated customer service responsive agents in central Ohio.

[00:42:33] He doesn't have the biggest broker. He doesn't have the biggest.

[00:42:36] He doesn't sell the most amount of houses.

[00:42:38] No, he does the best job of taking care of his customers.

[00:42:41] He's always in the top 10 to 15 of all the realtors in central Ohio that give a crap about their, their give a crap and show up and do the work for their people that they're trying to serve.

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:56] It's and I go back to what I said earlier.

[00:43:00] It's it's and he's probably the one who told him himself it was going to be easy.

[00:43:05] Right? Because, you know, I can see these, these other yahoo is doing this.

[00:43:09] I should be able to do it.

[00:43:11] Yeah.

[00:43:12] And that's really the wrong way to look at something.

[00:43:15] But if we don't, if we really don't have that, that drive, that competitiveness, and we're not willing to hold ourselves to a standard that is going to be easy.

[00:43:30] And that is a minimum of what the teams are and if not better, because like, you know, think about what we talked about.

[00:43:37] Jordan was trying to be better than anybody else on the team and he was already the best on the team.

[00:43:44] Correct.

[00:43:45] In his role and he was, he really, really didn't like it when somebody didn't carry their weight.

[00:43:51] Yep.

[00:43:53] And he was, he wasn't shy about sharing that thought with an any given moment.

[00:43:59] And I think if you don't have that drive, then you know sales isn't really the, the role to go into because it's like anything else.

[00:44:10] You're just going to meander around and be mediocre.

[00:44:14] Right.

[00:44:15] And not that there's role, there's not roles where that's important just to go in and do your job from nine to five and put the time in and, you know, do what's asked of you.

[00:44:26] There's nothing wrong with that.

[00:44:27] But in sales, there's a, it's a, if you're not trying to get better, you're falling behind and you're not going to, you're not going to make it.

[00:44:38] Absolutely agree. Totally agree.

[00:44:40] Lou Holtz never, never really played a lot of football in his life.

[00:44:43] He's a really good coach because he understood how to help everybody else get better.

[00:44:48] Yeah. That's another great, great coach.

[00:44:50] Little dude.

[00:44:51] Little dude, little squirrely, but he would call himself that.

[00:44:54] Yeah, he would.

[00:44:56] Because he was a little too small and too squirrely and too wiry to play football when he was young.

[00:45:03] So yeah, but was he, was he a great coach?

[00:45:06] Oh my gosh, he developed some of the greatest players out there.

[00:45:10] And that went on to be great players and some of them went on to be coaches.

[00:45:15] There you go.

[00:45:15] That tree as they say.

[00:45:17] Yeah. And so if you think about it from a sales leadership perspective, that sales leader better have the drive to help the sales people become as good as they can be.

[00:45:28] And if you don't, if you lose that respect of that team, man.

[00:45:32] Going.

[00:45:33] Yeah, you're not, you're going to be so ineffective and just, it's not going to work.

[00:45:41] Let me, let me ask one question before we, before we wrap this up.

[00:45:45] Sure.

[00:45:47] Is there, is there something that you hear?

[00:45:51] I mean, I think there's people out there with expertise.

[00:45:54] Right. And that, that, that believe what they're saying and that they're, they're really driving home. What's important.

[00:46:00] They're experts and it might be a narrow thing, but they're experts.

[00:46:04] And then we have these self acclaimed gurus that are out there spewing things.

[00:46:10] All right. I'm just going to leave it there.

[00:46:12] So if I define it like that, and I don't need to know who, but is there something that a guru is saying about sales performance or sales people or sales management or leadership that you hear that just grinds your gears or just like you'd like to go strangle the person and smack them to wake up.

[00:46:35] Is there anything that's on mine?

[00:46:37] Yeah, absolutely. And the big thing for me right now is that marketing can solve all your problems.

[00:46:43] You just need to increase your lead. You need to decrease your leads. You just need to increase your leads.

[00:46:47] No, you're not a sales person to the level that you could be. So you're blowing the leads that you already have.

[00:46:54] Don't increase the lead so you can blow more of the leads, fix the reason why you're not converting anybody now and then you can increase the leads.

[00:47:03] Yes.

[00:47:03] But I don't know who sold this methodology, but 17 times a week I get the same exact message from 17 different people that said we can 100 times your coaching business.

[00:47:17] All you got to do is buy our marketing methodology that's going to increase your leads. I don't need more leads.

[00:47:23] I don't need more leads. 98% of my business comes from direct word of mouth, which means I can't afford to blow the leads that I get.

[00:47:33] So let's learn how to be sales behavior type of people and maximize every lead that comes to us before we increase those numbers.

[00:47:43] I mean, that's a great one. I had, was it Monday? Not even Friday. Somebody called me like, you know, somebody had done work within the past and like, you know, we need more leads.

[00:47:58] And that's how we started things off. And I'm like, okay, why do you think you need more leads? Well, we're not closing.

[00:48:07] Okay. Well, let me just ask a couple of questions. How many leads are you generating? Yeah. And they were generating, you know, for a team of about five people, they were generating about 100 quote unquote leads.

[00:48:24] Oh, week. Wow.

[00:48:27] And I'm like, okay. If you had 150, how is that going to help you or leave? I mean, we could talk about them being good or bad. But the issue because they were they were closing.

[00:48:44] He said we're only closing about 1% of them. And when you pull back the covers. Nobody was calling these leads.

[00:48:54] The salespeople were, were, were busy being busy.

[00:48:58] And they were ignoring the leads that were coming to people legitimately, you know, not all of them, but yeah, legitimately there was an opportunity to have a, you know, a reason to call them and it's an easy call.

[00:49:12] It's not, it's not cold. It's kind of tepid.

[00:49:15] Yeah. But they weren't doing that. And I'm like, there's the problem there.

[00:49:21] Boss, like you just, you don't, you still don't have the accountability that we put into place to let it all go to crap again.

[00:49:28] Yeah.

[00:49:29] You know, can you come in and teach us how to close?

[00:49:34] Yeah, sure. But what, why do you think you need closing? And their problem was they weren't qualifying their pipeline. Right.

[00:49:40] It's, it's always the thing over here, but they want to focus on this thing over here. And right. A lot of it comes from those gurus that are saying things that are just innocuous.

[00:49:54] I can tell you how many emails I get from people that were like, you know, we can set appointments for you. Yeah.

[00:50:02] So it's an email.

[00:50:06] And every once in a while, when I'm just in the mood, how do you do that?

[00:50:13] And they're like, well, we get on the phone and we call targeted prospect, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just like you did with me.

[00:50:20] Yeah, right. Good, good. And by the way, your email, your phone numbers in your email signature. So if they were paying attention, right, they could pick up the phone and call you.

[00:50:28] My phone number is everywhere.

[00:50:30] But they don't pick up the phone and call you.

[00:50:32] No. The lady on Instagram the other day was like, like, the only thing that works is LinkedIn and that's where you should be marketing and that's where you should be advertising.

[00:50:45] Right. And she's on Instagram marketing.

[00:50:49] It's great.

[00:50:52] You know what I say, right? If everybody's an expert then we have none.

[00:50:59] I know a couple of things about a couple of things.

[00:51:02] That's about it. Yeah, me too.

[00:51:03] I'm just like a dumb sales guy and but I what I think the dumb sales guy like us can do is listen to I was in a meeting this morning and we were talking about pricing strategy.

[00:51:22] And you know, there was lots of thoughts and things about what we should and shouldn't do and margins in it.

[00:51:27] But you know, and I just I asked like two questions that, you know, they hadn't even thought about.

[00:51:37] And that's our job.

[00:51:38] Yeah.

[00:51:40] Absolutely.

[00:51:41] Think different.

[00:51:42] You know, if this is what you've been doing and it's not working by all means keep doing that. That'll get you just do more of it. It'll work.

[00:51:53] Just do more. Just just keep adding more on. I'm sure you won't run out of time anytime soon.

[00:51:58] Yeah.

[00:51:58] Yeah.

[00:51:59] So Brent, you know, this was as as fun for me and I think you dropped some some golden nuggets for the CEOs and those sales professionals out there that, you know, they should have been just scurrying about taking notes and picking these up and going and taking action.

[00:52:21] So if somebody wants to talk to you and learn a little bit more and get some of your wisdom or or get some clarity and go to the retreat.

[00:52:31] What's the best way to reach out to Brent?

[00:52:35] Long on life.com or my they can call me my phone numbers everywhere too. Yeah, I only have one phone. So it's a it's it goes with me pretty much everywhere I go.

[00:52:47] When did you cut loose with the landline thing? How long ago is that?

[00:52:52] Oh my gosh.

[00:52:56] 2010 probably 2009 2010.

[00:53:00] Yeah.

[00:53:01] 2009 for us. We got rid of it.

[00:53:05] Yeah, because it was like, I don't want to talk to them. If somebody wants if somebody I know wants to call me they talk to me on my cell phone.

[00:53:13] Yeah.

[00:53:13] Yeah.

[00:53:14] I mean, if we have a relationship you're already you're already in right if if you're trying to work into a relationship then there's methodology with which to do that but I'm still a coach I'm probably going to evaluate your sales call on me.

[00:53:30] It's like sitting up in the press box right and watching you know watching everything happen on the field right and said oops that was a mistake you know he may not even be on my team I can't watch football without becoming a coach so

[00:53:43] that's sometimes though right it's been help it you have a contractor come to the house and he was trying to sell me like hey this is what I want.

[00:53:51] Yeah.

[00:53:52] And without asking me why without telling me that I was wrong or like have you thought about this he just went into his normal spiel.

[00:54:03] Yeah.

[00:54:05] And I you know I listened for like a couple of minutes to see if he was going to break off right because he couldn't read body language either.

[00:54:12] You're not very good at this.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:15] How long you've been doing it.

[00:54:17] 10 years.

[00:54:19] And you have success.

[00:54:22] I told you what I wanted.

[00:54:24] Didn't tell me that if it was right or wrong you didn't like I just said this is what I need and you went into your normal spiel.

[00:54:31] Already a buyer.

[00:54:33] I don't want to have three conversations but now I have to.

[00:54:37] Now I have to.

[00:54:38] Yeah.

[00:54:38] Because you just haven't given me any credit created any credibility.

[00:54:43] Hey I know we're running out of pressure time but so my kids and I when my kids were young I got a lot of kids you know right so when my kids and I they were young we were out working in the yard the neighbor boy was the only child he was in our yard with us we were raking leaves right is after a storm came through we lost part of a limb on a tree some dude in a pickup truck stops in a

[00:55:03] little suburb and his girlfriend is sitting in the middle of the pickup truck seat next to him right and he gets out of the pickup truck and this is how he starts his sales call.

[00:55:14] Hey bub I want to talk to you about your tree.

[00:55:20] And so my response in front of my kids was no wait a minute did I just hear you start a sales call calling somebody who's 20 years older than you bub.

[00:55:31] Here's the deal here's the deal I will respect you if you get back in your truck and start to call over but you can't call me bub.

[00:55:40] His girlfriend elbowed him and said I told you you shouldn't be starting off the calls that way.

[00:55:47] And my kids witnessed the whole thing it was great so you know credit to him he got back on his truck got back out and started the sales call and then I said are you going to tell me my trees ugly.

[00:55:58] That tree's been through a lot it got struck by lightning that's why the that's why it looks the way it does but we're nurturing it back don't tell me my trees ugly you'll never make a sale.

[00:56:09] But my first thing was like he got out of the truck to go have a conversation that's yeah that's big something you can hang your head on and I told him look you got back in the truck you started over that means you're coachable that means you passed one of the first test of ever becoming one of my clients you're coachable.

[00:56:27] Now if you want me to help you if you want to help grow your business I'll be happy to do that but you can't start your sales calls off calling people like me bub.

[00:56:38] I just that thought would never enter my mind I remember the first time I first time I met you like that's a that's a professional.

[00:56:47] I would that would be as you do it's insulting as you it's insulting.

[00:56:57] Yeah, I don't want my kids growing up knowing that dad said you can call me bub anytime you want.

[00:57:03] Sir.

[00:57:04] There you go.

[00:57:05] I don't mean to intrude on this little family activity but I right I mean.

[00:57:09] I mean I don't know what's going on and acknowledge that you're you're interrupting absolutely cold calls are an interruption but sir college and move through it and provide some value quickly to side of the no problem.

[00:57:23] Yeah.

[00:57:24] All right so.

[00:57:25] Going to the website we have all of that in the show notes.

[00:57:31] Entertaining.

[00:57:33] No fooling around guys if you engage with like I've been accused of being an old grumpy football coach.

[00:57:45] As and that's more of my style.

[00:57:49] And I've tried to soften the edges of that but.

[00:57:54] You know.

[00:57:56] You're going to you're going to do the work or not going to work.

[00:58:01] Amen.

[00:58:02] I'm not an entertainer you're not an entertainer we can get paid money to be an entertainer but that's just doesn't feel right.

[00:58:08] I don't I don't want to do that.

[00:58:11] I'm not I don't want to do that and I don't get paid enough to be an entertainer I get paid to help companies and individuals grow and improve performance and kind of hit their goals.

[00:58:19] So that's what you're looking for CEOs and if you're looking for you'll take on a serious minded salesperson.

[00:58:28] Yeah.

[00:58:29] Some coaching.

[00:58:30] Absolutely I got to I got a class that meets every week and I've got people been in and out of that class for 20 some years.

[00:58:38] Yeah they just keep coming back because I'm helping them continue to get better opportunities folks opportunities give Brent a call.

[00:58:45] Thank you.

[00:58:47] Appreciate it.

[00:58:48] I'm going to have a cigar tonight in your honor.

[00:58:51] I have I have one every day for you.

[00:58:54] Good.

[00:58:55] All right thanks.