Being a Mission Focused MSP, with Ken Nero

[00:00:00] I read Bill Gates story. I read all these guys stories.

[00:00:02] He was coding at like 10, 8 years old, you know, like he had the opportunity because his parents

[00:00:08] provided the opportunity, his friends provided the opportunity.

[00:00:11] And we don't have that type of structure in the minority community.

[00:00:13] Right.

[00:00:13] You know, you're either playing sports or you're, you know, you're doing this, you're doing that,

[00:00:17] but there's no technology company saying, hey, let me work with you guys.

[00:00:21] You know, so that's really what we want to be.

[00:00:23] We want to be that conduit to get people access to these jobs.

[00:00:31] Hey guys, Damien Stevens, host of MSP Mindset.

[00:00:35] And this is a special series where we got to spend time at the Start Grow Manage Summit

[00:00:40] and record live with some amazing MSPs.

[00:00:45] Special shout out to Joe and Jeff at Start Grow Manage for having us here and letting us spend

[00:00:49] the time with these MSPs.

[00:00:52] I'm blessed to be here with Ken Nero and we are live at the SGM Summit.

[00:00:58] So, Ken, thanks for giving me your time.

[00:01:01] Thank you. Thank you. Nice to be on your podcast and doing this.

[00:01:04] Absolutely.

[00:01:05] So we were talking kind of right before we went live a little bit about your story

[00:01:08] and how you got started and tell me about that and what's unique.

[00:01:14] So when I started my MSP, I started in 1996.

[00:01:17] The term MSP wasn't even around then.

[00:01:19] We were resellers. We were integrators.

[00:01:21] The funny part is I started with my college buddy.

[00:01:24] We started our first client was Citibank Citigroup.

[00:01:27] Oh wow.

[00:01:27] It kind of worked out. Funny story.

[00:01:30] But we were brought into a partnership with a guy who was operating there.

[00:01:33] So three of us was partners.

[00:01:35] But we weren't partners at first.

[00:01:36] We were working with him.

[00:01:37] Then we ended up taking over the business and he went back down south

[00:01:40] and we were servicing Citibank for about 10 years.

[00:01:43] I actually remember my wife.

[00:01:44] I met her.

[00:01:45] She used to be an analyst, counting analysts at Citibank

[00:01:49] and she used to open up a lot of tickets to get her computer service.

[00:01:52] So I was like this lady's opened up a lot of tickets

[00:01:54] and we ended up getting married.

[00:01:57] So how many of those were just to see you?

[00:01:59] I think a lot of them was.

[00:02:04] But that's how we met through Citibank.

[00:02:07] And it was funny because we started backwards.

[00:02:09] We started as a big client, doing one work for a lot,

[00:02:15] for one big client as opposed to most MSPs are doing SMB business.

[00:02:19] Things in nature later on.

[00:02:20] We got into doing more SMBs.

[00:02:22] We were doing financial companies.

[00:02:23] A lot of companies on Wall Street.

[00:02:25] Since we were on Wall Street, we are actually a 111 Wall Street.

[00:02:29] And they gave us office space in the Citibank.

[00:02:33] So it's applying us with office.

[00:02:34] But what happened with Citibank was that

[00:02:37] their own IT team decided globally that

[00:02:41] they were going to cut costs by saying

[00:02:42] if you cannot conform to these standards,

[00:02:46] we're not going to service you.

[00:02:47] So left a lot of the business units to scramble

[00:02:49] and figure out how to get IT services

[00:02:51] because it's all about cost reduction.

[00:02:54] So companies like us, we were able to get opportunities.

[00:02:57] The guy I partnered with, he was used to smoke out.

[00:03:00] He was a temp worker.

[00:03:02] Used to smoke outside in front of Citibank.

[00:03:04] And he met one of the big banking guys

[00:03:06] and he was telling him how much he needed IT support.

[00:03:09] And they cut a deal right there.

[00:03:11] And then he bought us in and we were servicing Citibank.

[00:03:13] We were doing a lot of work for different Citibank units

[00:03:16] that could not...

[00:03:18] Like the guys who made the Citibank software,

[00:03:20] they had Macs and PCs.

[00:03:22] Their own IT standard was only PCs.

[00:03:25] So they were like, we can't conform.

[00:03:26] We have to develop software on Mac and PCs.

[00:03:28] So we couldn't use the IT department.

[00:03:30] We had to use outsource.

[00:03:31] So that's how we got started.

[00:03:34] And then we eventually moved out of Citibank

[00:03:37] because it was limiting how we can work.

[00:03:40] And then we set up an office across the street,

[00:03:44] at 82 Wall Street.

[00:03:45] And we started servicing Citibank

[00:03:47] plus some of the other arbitrage companies

[00:03:49] and private equity companies

[00:03:51] and other hedge funds on Wall Street area.

[00:03:54] And we did that for about 12 to 15 years.

[00:03:57] And we still have some hedge fund clients.

[00:03:59] We're MSP that focuses on K-12 schools,

[00:04:02] but we still have some hedge fund clients

[00:04:05] from the time of working with hedge funds in the 90s.

[00:04:10] Interesting.

[00:04:11] Starting with a big client and starting with an angel.

[00:04:13] Starting with a big client.

[00:04:14] That seems really...

[00:04:16] And then all our revenues coming from that client.

[00:04:18] So we have to figure out how to diversify and things of that nature.

[00:04:23] We kind of got started backwards in regards to that.

[00:04:27] And then what I was telling you,

[00:04:29] what makes us a little bit unique was that at the time,

[00:04:31] there weren't too many black IT companies.

[00:04:35] There seemed to be a lot more as I'm here.

[00:04:36] I'm seeing a lot more faces, but we're used to...

[00:04:39] We're part of other groups

[00:04:41] and we're using the only face there.

[00:04:44] So I did a program with Goldman Sachs

[00:04:46] has this program called 10K SB,

[00:04:50] which is they help small businesses grow.

[00:04:54] The 10,000 small businesses.

[00:04:55] 2,000 small businesses.

[00:04:56] So we were part of that like five years ago.

[00:04:58] It could be seven years ago now.

[00:05:00] So in that program, they were trying to help us find our uniqueness.

[00:05:03] I was like, all of us MSPs are the same.

[00:05:06] We all do the same thing.

[00:05:07] We all sound the same.

[00:05:08] So I thought I'd think about it.

[00:05:09] The only thing that makes me a little bit different

[00:05:10] than most of the MSPs is that I'm African American.

[00:05:16] I don't fit the profile of a typical MSP,

[00:05:18] which is usually a white guy in their 40s at the time.

[00:05:22] Now it's probably the 50s, but we were...

[00:05:24] And I was like, that drill down,

[00:05:26] like how does that make us unique is that

[00:05:27] we're able to give opportunities to people

[00:05:30] who would normally not get that opportunity.

[00:05:33] So we focused on...

[00:05:34] So in the Goldman Sachs program,

[00:05:36] I learned how to embrace our uniqueness,

[00:05:38] our diversity by saying that what we're going to focus our company on

[00:05:42] is giving opportunities for other people who are minorities

[00:05:45] to get access to the IT field.

[00:05:47] Because that's the hard part, right?

[00:05:48] You can get as much IT certifications as you want,

[00:05:51] but if you're not given time to get a job,

[00:05:55] and most jobs want experience,

[00:05:57] so we were able to offer a lot of internships

[00:05:58] to a lot of people who are minority

[00:06:00] who normally probably wouldn't have gotten an opportunity

[00:06:02] because internships are given through friends or family, right?

[00:06:06] And a lot of times it's not a matter of nobody

[00:06:08] is not trying to help anybody, but hey, my friends or family,

[00:06:10] I'm going to help them first.

[00:06:12] And so we're able to help our friends or family

[00:06:15] which happens to be more minority,

[00:06:16] so we were able to get a lot of people

[00:06:19] that normally wouldn't have got the experience,

[00:06:21] access to IT jobs,

[00:06:22] and that became the catalyst of our company.

[00:06:24] Like we have a nonprofit company called Icon cares.

[00:06:28] We work with the school,

[00:06:29] we do robotic programs, STEM programs.

[00:06:31] So that's a big part of our mission

[00:06:33] is that our job as our company

[00:06:35] is really to give access to people

[00:06:38] from disadvantaged neighborhoods to IT jobs

[00:06:40] so they can get careers in the field.

[00:06:41] So that's really what differentiates us

[00:06:43] from a typical IT company.

[00:06:45] And so happens that the school markers that we're serving,

[00:06:47] it fits so well because we're trying to get the kids excited

[00:06:49] about technology.

[00:06:51] So many of the kids are coming up in charter schools

[00:06:53] and stuff like that,

[00:06:54] and they don't like STEM jobs.

[00:06:57] Me and my wife went to our nephew's graduation

[00:07:01] and everybody in the school's mostly minority

[00:07:03] and they're asking them,

[00:07:06] what do you guys want to be?

[00:07:08] Dr. Policeman.

[00:07:09] Nobody said anything in IT tech or nothing like that stuff.

[00:07:12] Such a big opportunity of losing money.

[00:07:14] I mean, the IT jobs changes.

[00:07:16] You're going from being able to get a job

[00:07:18] paying minimum wage to paying higher middle class income,

[00:07:23] $80,000, $70,000.

[00:07:25] That changes people.

[00:07:26] If you're coming from a neighborhood

[00:07:28] where everybody's in a poverty level

[00:07:30] and you're able to jump to $80,000,

[00:07:32] you just changed your whole family's life cycle

[00:07:35] because now people, their kids are going to come up.

[00:07:37] They're going to go to college,

[00:07:38] make more money, things that nature.

[00:07:40] So that's the uniqueness of our business.

[00:07:42] For many years I hid that.

[00:07:44] I tried to fit in.

[00:07:45] Like, oh, I'm just here.

[00:07:46] I'm just going to have to tan.

[00:07:48] But now as I got older,

[00:07:50] I really learned how to embrace it

[00:07:51] and it gives us a unique story.

[00:07:53] Yeah.

[00:07:54] Yeah.

[00:07:55] Yeah.

[00:07:56] I can definitely relate to trying to figure out

[00:07:58] what makes you unique.

[00:07:59] I don't know.

[00:08:00] Like, that's a hard question.

[00:08:02] Yeah.

[00:08:02] And then to try to embrace it is still a different step.

[00:08:05] Yep.

[00:08:05] Yep.

[00:08:06] I love that.

[00:08:06] I also love,

[00:08:10] there's so many kids that they're going

[00:08:13] so many different directions and they're just not,

[00:08:17] they don't seem like they're jumping into IT

[00:08:19] or anything in STEM.

[00:08:23] And then that access.

[00:08:24] Like, I can't tell you how many people,

[00:08:26] if I post an even entry level job,

[00:08:28] that all have the exact same certification.

[00:08:31] Yep.

[00:08:31] You know, we all know what I'm talking about.

[00:08:34] Everybody's got their A plus or something basic,

[00:08:36] but it's like there's no differentiator.

[00:08:38] There's no internship.

[00:08:40] There's no, and so it's,

[00:08:41] I love that because I couldn't agree more.

[00:08:44] So tell me if you don't mind a little bit about

[00:08:47] how your company approaches that

[00:08:49] and where your foundation also fills in.

[00:08:52] So as well companies,

[00:08:53] say again?

[00:08:53] No, how your company hires differently

[00:08:56] and then where the foundation fits in

[00:08:57] because I kind of understand

[00:08:58] that you're talking to kids at school

[00:09:00] and then your foundation does something

[00:09:01] that I'd love to hear about

[00:09:02] and then your company sounds like you hire very differently.

[00:09:06] So yeah, so what one,

[00:09:07] we learned this from Starr Grove Manors.

[00:09:09] We focused, we saw it was this higher

[00:09:11] friends and family.

[00:09:12] We had a funny saying.

[00:09:13] We say, anybody that comes from Catholic school,

[00:09:15] they seem to be like really good hires.

[00:09:16] Oh really?

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:17] For some reason everybody has the profiles

[00:09:19] of all good texts.

[00:09:21] Some people that come from Catholic schools,

[00:09:23] they tend to be like really good.

[00:09:25] They work ethic leadership.

[00:09:27] So we used to look for a lot of that.

[00:09:29] Like if you're coming from a Catholic school,

[00:09:30] that's a good thing.

[00:09:30] But we learned to use core values.

[00:09:34] So we worked with Joe and them

[00:09:35] and developed our core value.

[00:09:36] Joe, Heather and Jeff

[00:09:38] and that was the first time

[00:09:39] we ever did something like that.

[00:09:40] And now whenever we hire,

[00:09:42] we try to really focus on finding people

[00:09:45] that fit our core values.

[00:09:47] You don't have to be the most technically

[00:09:48] proficient people

[00:09:50] or have a lot of experience in the tech field

[00:09:51] but they have to really fit our core values

[00:09:53] because we're focusing on building our culture.

[00:09:56] Finding people that match our core values

[00:09:58] allows people to fit into our culture very well.

[00:10:00] Interesting.

[00:10:01] Yeah.

[00:10:02] So that's how we focus on hiring.

[00:10:05] Then we go into like okay,

[00:10:06] we look into the technical efficiency.

[00:10:08] A big thing is that a lot of people

[00:10:09] coming up in the tech field can't write.

[00:10:12] Right?

[00:10:12] And I was a horrible writer myself.

[00:10:14] Left handed, can't write.

[00:10:16] But for writing so many RFPs and proposals,

[00:10:18] I never thought I'd have to do

[00:10:19] some of speaking and writing.

[00:10:21] I hate public speaking

[00:10:22] and I hate writing.

[00:10:23] And I've gotten a lot better at writing

[00:10:25] and we see a lot of people coming up in this field

[00:10:27] where technically they are strong

[00:10:29] but they don't have good writing skills.

[00:10:31] They don't have good talking skills.

[00:10:32] They don't have good interpersonal people skills.

[00:10:35] So we look for people that have those

[00:10:36] so we don't have to develop it in the house.

[00:10:37] But if we find a good person as a candidate,

[00:10:40] we'll help them develop that.

[00:10:41] But we look for people that have strong core values.

[00:10:44] They have good interpersonal skills because

[00:10:48] technology is just a currency.

[00:10:49] We sell customer service.

[00:10:51] You got to be a people person in this field

[00:10:53] because one thing differentiates me from any other level of PS

[00:10:56] is how good a service the companies feel

[00:10:58] they're getting from us.

[00:10:59] I can't agree more.

[00:11:00] So that people forget that this is a customer service field.

[00:11:02] It's not a technology field.

[00:11:04] We all focus on a stack and side.

[00:11:05] We can all buy the same stack.

[00:11:06] We all go buy the same stack

[00:11:08] but you cannot deliver the same level of service.

[00:11:10] Right.

[00:11:10] That's what we focus on.

[00:11:13] Hey guys, today's episode is sponsored by Cervosity.

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[00:12:01] So tell me where the foundation fits in.

[00:12:04] When you say foundation, what do you mean?

[00:12:05] I'm sorry, maybe I'm misunderstood.

[00:12:06] I thought you said your company does this

[00:12:08] and then you're working with education.

[00:12:11] So I thought you said there was a foundation.

[00:12:12] Yes. Sorry, we do have a foundation called ICON CARES.

[00:12:15] Yes.

[00:12:15] So ICON CARES does a lot of the social interaction

[00:12:19] with the schools so that we are able to do programs

[00:12:23] that are technology-facing,

[00:12:26] that gets the kids excited about technology

[00:12:28] and later get them into higher paying technology jobs.

[00:12:31] So the first project we did with the foundation ICON CARES

[00:12:35] was we did a program in the Bronx

[00:12:37] with a sensor client at the time

[00:12:39] where the Bronx Chamber of Commerce

[00:12:41] had this workforce development.

[00:12:43] So we put in a proposal to do vocational training

[00:12:47] for people to get IT skills and we were awarded with that.

[00:12:51] And we weren't working with only kids, we were working with adults.

[00:12:53] But the goal was to get people in disadvantaged neighborhoods

[00:12:56] access to the high paying jobs.

[00:12:58] So the foundation job is to be to do a lot of the outreach

[00:13:00] and work associated with putting these programs up.

[00:13:03] We still had an ad hoc level with it.

[00:13:07] We're looking for somebody to really run the foundation

[00:13:09] and take it to the next level.

[00:13:11] But we feel the foundation can make ICON into a billion dollar business.

[00:13:15] I think the mission of being a socially conscious company

[00:13:19] that gets kids excited about technology

[00:13:22] is a billion dollar business plan.

[00:13:24] Because there's so many aspects

[00:13:25] where we thought about starting our own school,

[00:13:27] we thought about so many different things

[00:13:29] that we can do with a mission like that.

[00:13:31] So we're not just an MSP,

[00:13:32] we have a socially conscious mission

[00:13:34] that we feel really extends our business plan

[00:13:37] to beyond what most MSPs can be.

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:41] Look, I just got to meet you and I'm already like,

[00:13:45] I want to help.

[00:13:46] How do I do this?

[00:13:47] The mission just grabbed me and pulls me in.

[00:13:50] And we're so hung up on trying to execute our business plan.

[00:13:55] Sometimes we forget about our mission.

[00:13:57] We've grown so much as an MSP,

[00:14:01] this focusing on being a good MSP,

[00:14:03] it takes us away from our mission.

[00:14:04] I go to Heather who's our coach.

[00:14:06] I say, Heather, you got to help us stay focused

[00:14:09] on getting this mission done.

[00:14:10] Because we're focusing on our 365 plan.

[00:14:13] I say, there's nothing on 365 about the foundation.

[00:14:16] And we keep revisiting it,

[00:14:18] but we're just so focusing on me and my wife,

[00:14:21] this is our everything.

[00:14:22] We don't have no side jobs.

[00:14:25] So having this company be sustainable,

[00:14:28] employing our people, employing ourselves.

[00:14:30] It took us years to get a paycheck.

[00:14:33] And just being able to do that is a lot of work

[00:14:36] and then trying to accomplish this mission as well.

[00:14:38] But I feel like as we get older,

[00:14:41] which we're making this company self-sustainable,

[00:14:44] we can focus more on the foundation work.

[00:14:46] And that's going to be our retirement plan.

[00:14:49] We're trying to retire in the next 10 years.

[00:14:51] I'll be able not to have to run Icon as hands-on

[00:14:54] in the next five years

[00:14:55] and focus on doing the mission of the foundation.

[00:14:58] We feel that's going to be so self-fulfilling,

[00:15:01] so much things are going to come from that.

[00:15:03] That's really the exciting part of what we want to do.

[00:15:06] Why is this so important to you personally, Ken?

[00:15:08] Because I came from the New York City School system.

[00:15:11] My parents were...

[00:15:13] I'm from my family's from Trinidad.

[00:15:16] I had a lot of people of color

[00:15:19] don't have a mother and father.

[00:15:21] My mother was a nurse, my father was a count.

[00:15:22] And we were a middle-class family.

[00:15:24] We had a lot of opportunities

[00:15:25] that a lot of people I've seen around me didn't have.

[00:15:27] But at the same time, even having solid parents,

[00:15:31] having getting opportunities is hard.

[00:15:33] Like for me, the only reason why I got a job,

[00:15:36] I got abilities to start Icon and work in IT

[00:15:39] was because my brother's wife, through her church,

[00:15:43] she was working with one of my partners at that IT company

[00:15:47] and they weren't working out.

[00:15:49] And he said, well, do you know anybody else

[00:15:51] that's young and no technology?

[00:15:52] And she introduced him to me.

[00:15:54] So people are only going to get places

[00:15:56] through networking and opportunities.

[00:15:59] And if you don't have companies like Icon standing out there

[00:16:01] opening these condos...

[00:16:04] I read Bill Gates' story.

[00:16:06] I read all these guys' stories.

[00:16:07] All of them, Bill Gates' father and them,

[00:16:09] they had a super computer in the community.

[00:16:11] He was coding at like 10, 8 years old.

[00:16:14] You know, like he had the opportunity

[00:16:15] because his parents provided the opportunity,

[00:16:18] his friends provided the opportunity.

[00:16:20] And we don't have that type of structure

[00:16:21] in the minority community.

[00:16:23] It's either playing sports or you're doing this,

[00:16:26] you're doing that, but there's no technology company

[00:16:29] saying, hey, let me work with you guys.

[00:16:31] So that's really what we want to be.

[00:16:33] We want to be that conduit to get people access

[00:16:35] to these jobs.

[00:16:36] Because a lot of people don't understand

[00:16:37] that IT is vocational.

[00:16:39] It's not being book smart as everybody thinks it is.

[00:16:42] A lot of it is, but a lot of it is vocational.

[00:16:44] There's very far you can be,

[00:16:46] you can go in this field by being vocational, hands on.

[00:16:49] A lot of the stuff you can read,

[00:16:51] certifications, but when you get in the real field,

[00:16:52] it's totally different.

[00:16:53] It's like being in the war.

[00:16:55] You don't know how to handle a gun, all this stuff.

[00:16:57] But then when you actually go to war,

[00:16:58] it's like you're shooting your friends

[00:17:00] because it's a totally different experience.

[00:17:02] The same thing with IT.

[00:17:03] So getting that hands on experience,

[00:17:05] getting that thing is so important to getting in the field.

[00:17:08] Because once you get it, nobody cares what certifications you got.

[00:17:10] Nobody cares about all that.

[00:17:11] They's like, okay, you did this?

[00:17:12] Okay, well, you qualify for this job.

[00:17:14] And then even more so with AI.

[00:17:17] Like AI is now, AI is taking a lot of these jobs away

[00:17:20] from people.

[00:17:21] A lot of these technology based jobs,

[00:17:23] the programming, coding is going to go away.

[00:17:25] IT is getting more automated.

[00:17:27] So now as requires a lot of those jobs are going to go away,

[00:17:30] it's going to require kids coming up now

[00:17:32] to be really good at networking.

[00:17:34] What's going to differentiate you from somebody else,

[00:17:35] getting a job is really going to be how good you can network.

[00:17:39] So even more important is having these types of internships

[00:17:43] and getting experienced young.

[00:17:45] You might want to be able to pad your resume

[00:17:47] when you're in your teenager as opposed to waiting to college.

[00:17:50] So guess what?

[00:17:50] I'm going into high school and I already got

[00:17:53] three or four years working with IT company.

[00:17:55] That's going to be more important than

[00:17:56] what college you graduated to and things of that nature.

[00:17:59] That's just my how I see the world changing and coming up now.

[00:18:03] So having companies that can get you exposure at an early age

[00:18:07] is going to be very, very important.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:09] I love that.

[00:18:10] We have gone out of our way to just like personally to

[00:18:15] not care about certifications,

[00:18:17] not care about degrees and just try to look at objective data.

[00:18:21] Not just even resume because sometimes there's diamond in the rough

[00:18:25] that are just so passionate and so good.

[00:18:28] You're just like, you got to do this.

[00:18:30] And then like you said, maybe they're just in high school,

[00:18:32] maybe they graduated high school, not college or whatever it is,

[00:18:35] but they're just,

[00:18:35] you can tell they're going to be in this field

[00:18:38] and they're going to be amazing.

[00:18:40] And but I also can totally relate to just not enough people

[00:18:44] are getting exposed to this.

[00:18:45] I'll tell you a funny story.

[00:18:46] There was a time when business was slow for us, right?

[00:18:50] I was looking for a job to augment,

[00:18:52] you know, could be where I'm making the income.

[00:18:54] Sure.

[00:18:54] And I worked with Citibank on everything.

[00:18:57] And I would go to these jobs and they would tell me I wasn't qualified.

[00:19:02] And I was doing work way beyond that,

[00:19:04] but they wanted you to have like a certain college degree,

[00:19:07] certain certifications.

[00:19:09] And I may not have that,

[00:19:11] but I have wealth of experience working on Citibank stuff

[00:19:14] and stuff like that.

[00:19:14] And a lot of times when you find out the people

[00:19:16] who are writing these jobs don't even know what's required.

[00:19:20] They get into criterias on these jobs,

[00:19:21] but they'll make no sense.

[00:19:23] And is this a gateway?

[00:19:25] Is this like a gatekeeper?

[00:19:26] You know, so I said that this is so much nonsense

[00:19:29] with what people are doing here in the workforce

[00:19:30] because they don't even know what they need.

[00:19:32] They don't know what they can have, right?

[00:19:34] You know, they just write these jobs

[00:19:36] based upon what people think they need.

[00:19:38] A lot of people talk to talk and they can know the words.

[00:19:41] They put the words in the job description

[00:19:42] and somebody interviews that don't say the proper words,

[00:19:44] they're not qualified.

[00:19:45] They only really know how to even qualify people, you know.

[00:19:48] So, you know, we just learned a lot of that stuff

[00:19:50] coming up in the IT field.

[00:19:51] That's a lot of nonsense out here

[00:19:53] and we're hoping that we can really level the playing field.

[00:19:57] Yeah, I think job descriptions are broken.

[00:19:59] Broke, oh, it's horrible.

[00:20:00] Right?

[00:20:01] Horrible.

[00:20:01] They're horrible.

[00:20:02] They don't make any sense and people just want to use jogging

[00:20:05] and key words.

[00:20:06] Yeah, and I think they...

[00:20:09] The thing that started me on this journey,

[00:20:11] one of them is you end up filtering out a lot of great people

[00:20:16] whether you intend to or not.

[00:20:18] Right.

[00:20:19] And that introduces a whole lot of issues.

[00:20:23] And I mean that from an opportunity perspective.

[00:20:27] Nobody, when you're a small company, is forcing you

[00:20:29] to hire certain people of certain backgrounds or what have you.

[00:20:33] But you're missing out on the political

[00:20:34] because sometimes you're just requiring arbitrary things

[00:20:37] or things that certain people don't have access to

[00:20:39] but they can run circles.

[00:20:41] Kind of like you were talking about with your personal example

[00:20:43] with Citibank where you could clearly do a lot more than that

[00:20:49] but there's some arbitrary bachelor's degree or something else.

[00:20:53] I did get my bachelor's degree.

[00:20:55] My bachelor's degree is not in computer science, it's in aeronautics.

[00:20:59] But is this the matter of people that wanted...

[00:21:01] They were so rigid, they were like,

[00:21:02] oh, you have to be a computer science major.

[00:21:04] They wanted this and I'm like...

[00:21:05] Oh my goodness.

[00:21:05] You know, it's just crazy.

[00:21:08] And the biggest thing is it's not...

[00:21:10] The job companies are missing out on opportunities

[00:21:12] and then the people are missing out on opportunities

[00:21:15] because they don't know how to get these jobs.

[00:21:17] Yes.

[00:21:18] So that's...

[00:21:19] I think that's really what...

[00:21:21] And we get so far away from getting back

[00:21:23] to our core mission and stuff

[00:21:24] but that really gets me excited

[00:21:26] where I think about the type of company I envision we could be

[00:21:29] versus where we'd be.

[00:21:30] The MSP aspect of it is so small

[00:21:34] but the far as what our objective is could be so...

[00:21:38] You know, can be so game-changing.

[00:21:41] You know, in a different change.

[00:21:42] In fact, the good thing about us

[00:21:44] is that when working with the schools,

[00:21:45] our value add to the schools is that,

[00:21:47] hey, you know what?

[00:21:48] A lot of these other MSPs you're working with,

[00:21:50] they make the money and take the money out the community.

[00:21:53] Not only take the money,

[00:21:53] they take the education out the community.

[00:21:55] We're coming in, we're keeping the money in the community

[00:21:57] and keeping the kids educated on the technology

[00:22:01] to get them to the job.

[00:22:02] So how do you compete against that?

[00:22:03] So not only is it socially conscious,

[00:22:05] it's a very strong business strategy as well.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:08] So that's...

[00:22:11] That's our story.

[00:22:12] I love that.

[00:22:13] Ken, I feel like...

[00:22:15] I can talk to you all afternoon.

[00:22:16] Same thing, easy interview.

[00:22:18] Well, thank you.

[00:22:19] But you've been nice enough to give me your time

[00:22:21] and I know we're at the SGM summit

[00:22:23] and you have all these other things you need to do

[00:22:25] to stay on mission.

[00:22:26] So I won't take all your time,

[00:22:28] but if people are attentive

[00:22:30] and interested in your mission as I am,

[00:22:32] they're going to want to connect.

[00:22:34] So how do folks find you with social network,

[00:22:36] your website?

[00:22:37] Tell them how to find you.

[00:22:38] Sure.

[00:22:39] We are our website is www.icombusinessgroup,

[00:22:41] which is ikonbusinessgroup.com.

[00:22:45] We have an icon care website as well.

[00:22:48] Oh, no, we don't.

[00:22:49] I think the icon care site...

[00:22:50] I forget.

[00:22:51] The icon business group has everything on there.

[00:22:54] My LinkedIn is Ken Nero.

[00:22:56] I do a lot of connecting on LinkedIn

[00:22:58] and we also have Facebook pages as well.

[00:23:00] Awesome.

[00:23:01] Yes.

[00:23:01] Make sure to take Ken up on that

[00:23:03] and Nero N-E-R-O.

[00:23:05] Yes.

[00:23:06] So you're looking at...

[00:23:06] Yeah, N-E-R-O, yep.

[00:23:07] So make sure to take the opportunity

[00:23:09] to connect with Ken or our icon business group.

[00:23:11] Yep.

[00:23:11] And my wife is also Tanika.

[00:23:15] T-Bots, they got icon business group as well.

[00:23:17] If you're trying to reach either one of us.

[00:23:20] Okay.

[00:23:20] Okay.

[00:23:21] Awesome.

[00:23:21] Thank you for giving me your time.

[00:23:22] Thank you very much.